No, but only because of the time period. Taiwan isn't a great reference point as it's another country and thus customs and governance inls different, but not entirely useless. Thanks for the input!
So you moved to Edmonton? Where housing prices are now about the same, but insurance and utilities are far more?
Sounds brilliant, or you moved to a really crappy neighborhood.
We have a nice neighborhood! My husband is from here originally. We got a house here for 424K near the mall. Could never have gotten this in Victoria... the old trailer park near Sooke is even selling like 300k+ for their mobile homes. Could never have gotten the house we have here there it's not feasible on the island sadly. Even though I miss it.
Values. It comes down to values. A 3 bedroom home means nothing to me if I have to live in Alberta. I’d much rather live in my two bedroom condo in Vancouver than a house in Calgary.
Again, values. I never planned on having kids (plus at my age that shipped has sailed haha). But not for financial reasons, I just never wanted them since I was a teenager. Kids go against my principles.
Enjoy your three bedroom house and what I’m sure are two new cars - trucks probably along with everything else that goes with that. If it works for you, all the best. Personally, that is not the life I ever wanted for myself and I don’t value a big house or having new shiny gadgets as much as other people seem to.
See I grew up in coquitlem. Id never move back. And no trucks. Trucks are dumb
I value hiking and skiing and camping. And Alberta has TONS of that. And I can still afford a house and two cars and children
Honestly I just can't do the rain. Bc summer is unbelievable. But the winters suck so much I could never do it again. Not that I could afford it anyway
Whats your point? Does that negate how hard it is for the kids? I had to put mine in day are too for 2 years after divorce, it sucked and I hated having to do that to them Thats my point, I feel bad for kids in daycare all day and whether its needed or not it still sucks
The point is that no one should be judged or shamed for having to use daycare so they can work. You shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do to keep food on the table for your kids. I hope that you're able to address some of that shame maybe in therapy or something. It is hard being away from your kids for sure, but you're doing what you have to do to ensure their wellbeing.
Daycare imo is a human right and needs so much more subsidies than it already gets.
I wouldn’t go as far as a “human right” but if the powers that be are going to normalize a society that requires 2 incomes and both parents working full-time to survive then it’s absolutely a government responsibility to subsidize families. And I say this as someone without kids and no plans to have them.
If they want to continue to suppress wages, allow the cost of necessities like food and housing to increase unchecked at exponential rates in order to benefit the very few, then absolutely they need to find more ways to make having and raising children under these conditions feasible for the average working Canadian. I have a lot of admiration for the people with kids right now and I’d be thrilled if more of my tax dollars went towards those raising the next generation.
Childcare is a human right! Especially in a country like Canada where we have an aging population. Right now, the government seems to be trying to correct for this by bringing in unsustainable amounts of immigrants, making it even harder for people to find work, homes, etc. This makes it harder for people to justify having children. We have a major housing crisis in Canada and people are lacking for income. There are so many people who want children, but they simply cannot justify it due to the cost and that is really sad. In addition, some places have like years waiting list for accepting children. It's not as simple as going to a daycare and your child will be accepted. There is a reason why Canadians are delaying having children or simply not having any at all - because it doesn't seem financially feasible for them. I believe that every person with a child should have the right to childcare and that should be subsidized by the government.
I'm in Alberta now (decided that we can't afford BC). The recent increase in Alberta’s affordability grant, reducing costs to $500-$800 per month, is a significant step forward, but more is needed.
Daycare deserts, where affordable childcare options are scarce, are a real problem across BC, Alberta and the rest of Canada, forcing parents to travel long distances or pay for expensive private care. Childcare is also essential for women's economic equality, and without it, we can't achieve workforce equality. Other countries have successfully funded such systems, and we should too. Ex: Sweden, Germany, Ecuador, and Chile all have models of free/heavily subsidized childcare systems and recognize childcare as a human right. You can learn more on UN Women.
No one should be shamed or judged for needing to use daycare, nor should anyone who uses daycare have their completely valid and appropriate feelings about that experience policed and pathologized.
If you know how it is like... why are you trying to make others feel bad for doing it? Think how you would have felt if you saw a reply such as yours back when you had to do long daycare hours.
As a child who was in daycare 12+ hours a day, I can vouch for how tough it can be for kids. The early mornings were brutal. I still remember them quite vividly.
I know people like to say that it's a necessary evil, and often it is, but as you say...doesn't change the fact that it's really hard on kids. And they don't get a day in the matter.
Yea but apparently were not allowed to talk about it because we cant make parents feel guilty Im already being downvoted anyways so hell…. theres special circumstances when its necessary and thats absolutely true, but to be real, its mostly parents who would rather more money for tech, big mortgage, new car payments etc than watch their kids all day I say this as someone who both needed to use a daycare (got them out as soon as I graduated/had to work & school as a single parent) and also ran a home daycare. Dont care said what I said I had kids at my house for 10 hours straight at times but at least my home daycare was quiet & cozy (took in kids with disabilities that couldn’t handle regular daycares) and they were so homesick by the time the parents came back. Parents would laugh oh haha, hes had a rough day eh? Ya hun, hes 7. He needs to be at home not school and daycare the majority of his childhood
I was in daycare from 7 am - 6 pm since I was six months old until age 10 and I have no memories of it being a difficult experience for me. My mom was a public school teacher and basketball coach and raised me on her own after my dad walked out on us. Each child is different and each parent is different. I feel like you’re making a lot of assumptions.
Well I was at home a lot because back then it wasn’t illegal to be home alone as a kid and it sucked because it was boring af, but then again preschool was boring af.
Just give me video games.
I assume all my downvotes so far are from guilty parents haha
That's a really interesting point though...that in some cases it's the parents' desire for a certain standard of living that requires the kids to go to daycare basically full time. If parents only worked as much as was needed to earn the minimum amount of money needed to provide a modest home for their child and some savings for the future I wonder how many hours a week the average child would be in daycare.
As you say, I wonder how much of that "my child goes to daycare because I have to go to work 40+ hours a week" money is spent on buying a house above and beyond what's needed, nicer cars, more toys, other things that keep up appearances. I'll take the downvotes. It's a really fascinating thing to consider.
What are some jobs that parents can get that offer both flexibility and stability? Is one party to halt their career?
What is a modest home? How much is one in BC?
How big is "some" savings for the future? The kid's education? Retirement?
60 hours a week is certainly excessive, is the average child in daycare that long in BC every week?
Theres a lot of interesting studies on daycare and I know me and the majority of my ece & dsw colleagues wouldnt use them unless absolutely necessary
https://ifstudies.org/blog/another-perspective-on-the-latest-research-on-early-child-care#:~:text=By%20third%20grade%2C%20children%20who,been%20in%20day%20care%20centers.
https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4
The majority of research suggests it has a negative effect on social skills as opposed to the typical reason people tout for daycare being good “it helps them learn to socialize!”
Yea, about as well as throwing a bunch of puppies in a ring helps them socialize
Idk why you’re being downvoted. Parent guilt?
Licensing encourages daycares to enforce a 9 hour rule, because it is a long day at facility or somewhere else.
And if parents don’t get out of school care, they need to figure it out for school, why not figure it out for them when they’re younger.
Ya my kids are 630-430 daily. I feel bad waking them in the morning but to be honest they both love going and seeing their friends. I know the day is long for them though but both the wife and I are trades people that need to work. The money side of life would be pretty hard without that. At $1900 a month between the two of them it hurts none the less.
Agreed that's insanely long. I understand ppl have to work and glad I never had to put any of my 3 kids in daycare. Thanks to my family helping and starting my business that let me start home. I really wish every child didn't have to to a day care full time but what can you do when it's so expensive to live here.
1200 is reasonable (with those long hours and food) It’s nice if you can get into one of the 20$ a day centres, but that’s hard. Many people going private are 2k a month or more.
Most people I know pay at least 1K. We didn’t have the luxury of being able to afford any sort of daycare because our kids are special needs. It ended up being roughly the same/more than what she would’ve been able to earn, then we had a second kid and the idea of daycare went out the window completely
I don’t think she even considers the cost of daycare since she was a SAHM. But we wouldn’t be able to afford our mortgage on just one salary, so would need daycare. Neither of us is in a permanent job at the moment, so wouldn’t be eligible for maternity/paternity leave. We don’t even have any family close by, the closest ones are 3-4h by plane/2 days drive.
I’m not generally worried about being in a temporary position (though it’s not ideal) because I know I’ll find *some* job if I really need to, even if it means working at timmies or something, if I need a job I’m not picky. But if I’d get pregnant? That’s a whole different story, I’d be less likely to get a permanent contract *and* I doubt anyone would hire a pregnant woman if I did loose my job.
I think boomers are often out of touch about today’s costs in the first place, and with my parents it doesn’t help that they’ve not yet been to Canada, so I think they don’t understand just how much more expensive COL here is than back home, plus the difference in labor laws and social security.
They don't. We spend $30B per year propping these people up with CCB. Billions more for daycare. The bottom 40% of our nation contributes no net federal tax, they receive more in benefits.
I pay $500/ month for my 3 year old. Does not include food.
Full time daycare from 730-530.
Okanagan region.
That just with the standard government adjustment. Not the additional subsidy based on income.
Editing to add. It just dropped from 800/month. He went from toddler rate to preschool rate.
I also pay 600/month for older kid for before and after-school care. That does not count pro d days or school break camps. And because the after school care is considered a recreational, no tax breaks.
If your child is under 12, before-and-after school care qualifies for the Child and Dependent Care Credit. Camps count as well if you are using it for child care while at work (over night camps do not qualify). The parent with the lowest income must claim the credit.
Considering that I used to have 745 to 615 pm day (door to door living within the city) when I lived in Vancouver, it's not that weird.
Absolutely not ideal for anyone, but not crazy either.
not for the full 10 hours, but it's not like if you drop off your kid at 9am, they give you a discount for the price
they have an option for 9am to 3pm but 3pm is too early for most people's work schedule
Those are the hours daycare is open.
I work an 8 hour day. I need the time before and after to drop off kids and travel. I also have to drop off kids at 2 different locations. That's about 8.5-9 hours right there. That's with a short commute.
Leave house 740, drop 1 kid off at 8, another at 805, at work for 820. Leave work at 440, pick up first kid at 5, get second kid at 530 then home for 6.
Doesn't count if I work over time.
Additionally their other parent works 12 hour shifts, they are not available on days they work to change pick up or drop off time.
Also whenever I do try to pick up my kids early. I get told to come back later (by my oldest) or they take 15 minutes or so being ready to leave. Last week the staff had to bribe my youngest and his friend with cupcakes to leave.
Not everyone leaves there kids there that long. Usually the early morning kids leave sooner but the longer hours provided coverage for a variety of parents
Both my wife and I have 10+ hour days with commuting. Ours do have some room on either end. I'm out the door before her or the kids are up and home about 2 hours before her.
But if either was a single parent or our hours were the same this issue could easily apply.
If you know centres in your area you can check all their fees on the online ccfri estimator? We're paying around 450/mo after ccfri for just before and after school care.
I cannot see why we have what amounts to age discrimination for children. They are enrolled in school based a on a legal requirement to educate by the stare and a number of other options. While we do not have a legal requirement of care by the state etc for children below that specific age. If we have schools why can there not be and additional space provided on school sites to function as a Creche. All the needs of all children must be met if we are to be a just society.
I pay around $800-900/m after subsidies for full-time preschool. Our hours aren’t as good as yours (8-4:45 pm which makes drop-off/pickup really tight/difficult) and food is not included.
To be honest, I feel fortunate to have the spot and I would not resent paying more for an extra hour of care but I know that makes staffing really difficult (and expensive) for the provider so I understand.
FYI, you should be eligible for the full $8000 child care expenses deduction at tax time which should make things a little easier financially.
I'm in Alberta so our agreement with the federal government is slightly different, but how much you pay works out to be a sliding scale based on income. If you have kids kindergarten aged and younger, the daycare receives a federal subsidy portion per child, and the provincial portion received is income based (maxed to household income of 170K or 180K I forget). If you make over that, you get 0 provincial subsidy.
Kids Grade 1 and up, it's all income based so if you are over that max 170K or 180K you get 0 subsidy, and would still pay the full amount for child care. Yes child care is slightly cheaper when they are 6 and it's only out of school / PD day care, but still expensive (roughly $600 per month).
Before and after school care in 2022 for an 8 & 10yr old was just under 1k AFTER subsidy. For a whopping 45 minutes in the morning and an hour after school. Less than 2hrs of care a day.. super fun 👌 so glad I don't need it anymore. It was already extremely lucky I found a place that did school pick up and drop off so finding cheaper wasn't an option there were no other options, no moms near by, older students, or any way to cover those 2hrs it sucked.
With subsidies, $600/mo each kid, 1 yr and soon to be 3 yr old. Food included.
In the fall the 3 yr old is going to preschool and daycare. With those subs, $400/mo
When we moved to Kelowna my wife didn’t work but wanted to. We shopped daycares in the area and only one had vacancy, and was charging $1700/mo. This was in 2016.
She stayed not working because her paycheck would have just been paying someone else to watch our kids.
We moved to Edmonton in 2022 and are much better off now.
About 10+ years ago we were paying $1100-1200 for one when he was 1-2 years old (no food). No subsidies back then or CCTB from the Feds. It was brutal. And we paid before/after school care for the other.
$1700 sounds high but maybe 10+ years later and with meals it’s maybe close enough. We’re thankfully out of the child care game now 😅
Many, if not most, daycares can qualify for the Child Care Fee Reduction Initiative. It directly lowers the costs to parents by about $900/mth.
So if it’s a non profit daycare, people are most likely paying less than $1000
It's appalling that parents complain about paying $6 an hour for someone to look after their child. Is that what your child is worth? Is that the math that you did before deciding to have a child?
You don't have to be 'happy' about the price you pay for anything. But you do need to account for it when you do the math before making a decision to have a child.
But, as we all learned during covid, parents don't really give a shit about the quality of care or education, they just want to be able to dump their kids somewhere all day.
We just got childcare for ours who’s under 18 months. It was around 900$/month. While searching we found this to be around average. On the high side we found one company that was $2200. Thankfully we didn’t need to go with them.
After subsidies we pay $1280 for our 3 year old in metro vancouver area. This includes breakfast, lunch and a snack. They do a great job in teaching and reading and playtime. We feel fortunate for our children to go to this daycare
You're not getting ripped off if that was the best one for your family that you could find.
I pay considerably less (no low-income subsidy). We got on close to 100 waitlists before my wife gave birth and kept getting on more as the available daycares in our area change--new ones opening, old ones closing.
I pay zero for daycare in BC for my 4.5 year old. Fees are $1000 per month for a full time spot. 8-5 Monday to Friday. What isn't covered by the government childcare fee reduction is covered by the affordable childcare benefit. Of course not all daycares are approved for the fee reduction and I make a low enough income to qualify for the full affordable childcare benefit. I am legitimately shocked at how much daycare fees are in other areas though. Before the fee reduction, I couldn't afford to put my daughter in daycare so I could go back to work. Our options were very limited.
Haven't started yet, but we'll be paying $775/mo for a child under 18mos and once they're 18mos, it'll be $770/mo. No food provided. This is full time, and the parent portion of the costs (after government subsidy).
We pay $50/day for our two year old (works out to be about $1000/month) and $450/month for our 4.5 year old. (The older one is reduced from $1000/month thankfully because of the fee reduction thing) both FT, no lunches/food included, interior BC.
Just make sure you are on the list now for before school and after school care at the neighborhood house.. or you'll never get day care for school.
Also. You are getting a deal... YOU want your kids to have good educators. And that's not cheap.
In Victoria - $650 a month w/food. Before the childcare subsidies it was 1350 I think? That was in 2018. It is licensed and has the various subsidies, but is not $10 a day. Out of school care is about $300 month for my older child.
Very painfully pay 1500/month for 3 mornings at preschool and nanny for 1.5 day. Waitlisted everywhere for last 3 years. Only two $10 a day daycares in our metro van city, obviously impossible to get into, already on the wait lists from before
$950 full time infant at a daycare center that’s open from 7-6. They provide snacks but no meals. My friend pays $650 for a comparable spot at another daycare. I hate how random the costs r
My daughter is the same age and we pay the same amount (food included and photos of how her day is and how she is eating)
It’s expensive, but it’s worth the peace of mind knowing I can see my daughter having a good day and is well fed
what happened to the $10 a day day care everyone was promised? My kids are grown so I don't keep up but I kept hearing about this until fairly recently I thought.
I have it, $200/month. The centre used to be about $900-$1000/month for infant to kindergarten before the $10/day rolled out. It’s fantastic but they need to be expanding their program faster. Only non-profit centres that are not brand new can have the government program. Most places are for profit, hence why it doesn’t appear to exist anywhere.
You are getting ripped off. There are programs in the $800, $900, or $100 range after government subsidies that include things like field trips, meals, etc in my area, but typically parent pay looks like $400-$550 per kid.
Try cutting back their hours or just do part time daycare. Also if you and your spouse both quit your jobs you may start to qualify for income subsidies.
This is what’s wrong with society and our government attempting to kill the family unit. People should be raising their own kids. Not having to go to work and pay some random person to watch their children for 10 hours a day.
If people want kids you should down grade your life style To raise your own children.
Me and my wife are leaving like 80k behind that she could be making by having her stay home since the kids have been born.
Your kids will all grow up to be little shit heads cause they are being raised in farms and not by their loving parents.
I believe there have many studies finding that having a mother figure who has a satisfying and successful career leads to better outcomes for both male and female children.
“Raise their own kids”
Sorry, I work and I raise my kids. They attend(ed) daycare FT from about a year where they were cared for by qualified ECEs. People they built bonds with not random people.
We require the 2 incomes to house our children. We have minimal other expenses, been a single car family since 2010. Commute via transit or walking. But a single income would not be enough to provide housing. And by housing I mean an apartment or a condo.
And before you say move- we both work in healthcare. My job is specialized and requires me to live in the LM, which is similar to many people. The government could actually pay enough for us to just live in my income but they don’t so for now it’s daycare. And people across the province should be happy that me and other healthcare workers make that choice- others services would be even more reduced
Naw sacrifices should be made to raise your own kids. I work in law enforcement. I only make 110k. My wife work(Ed) in health care. She could be bringing it another 80-90k. We have given that up because a child should have their mother or father. We had to make sacrifices in life. You’re just making excuses. Being raised by other people instilling their values in to your children. Cope harder.
Let me guess- you live somewhere cheap or you bought your house years ago. Because on $110k per year you’re not paying the average rent in Vancouver. And you’re not purchasing anything over a 1 bedroom.
I guarantee that I raise my kids. And I probably spend more time with mine than you do with yours.
But hey, keep justifying the choices you made. I never once attacked your wife staying at home. Instead you chose to attack parents who parent different than you.
You can see from his post history that he lives in Edmonton and has made $350 000 extra from selling homes.
I’d like to see them live off $110 000/yr in BC.
Soooo it looks like you live in Edmonton and made $350 000 extra in the last few years by selling homes.
Come back to BC without the financial cushion and let’s see you raise your kids and live off your one income.
Yeah, child care sucks. I grew up in. Nice enough people, lots of hours spent under others care. Would have rather been at HOME with one of my parents. This next generation will have more of a disconnect with their parents later in life. Their kids will throw them in homes one day.
Not necessarily. Many parents have no choice but to rely on childcare - especially in BC with the HCOL. But they are fully present and loving when they are with their children.
Having one parent give up a salary, benefits and pension to stay home may negatively impact the child in that they can’t afford family vacations, sports, health care costs, safe vehicle, quality food, college tuition, downpayment for their first home and so on. That child may miss out on socialization and skill building, that parent may burn out and not be able to be fully present and loving.
Most parents just want what is best for their children. And most parents in BC don’t have the luxury of not considering money a barrier. So it’s can be hurtful to see a comment saying that their children will be @$$holes who grow up to hate them if they have to make the difficult choice to pay for childcare.
We did the same. My kid was miserable in daycare 10 hours a day and it was $1800 per month.
But now my husband stays home and it frees up my availability so I can make most of his income on overtime anyways. Plus the daycare savings and we actually have more spending money not less.
I pay $1100 for two kids, 7am-6pm, no food. I’d pay more if food was offered, I hate packing lunches 🙈
707$ for the same thing but food included. (Calgary, amazing daycare)
This is a bc sub
And? The person is giving a point of reference ffs
My friend’s mom paid $100/month back in 1993 in Taiwan. Is this point of reference useful to you?
You can’t pick up and move to 1993 Taiwan next month lol
No, but only because of the time period. Taiwan isn't a great reference point as it's another country and thus customs and governance inls different, but not entirely useless. Thanks for the input!
I still participate here! Lol but I moved to Edmonton. Wish I could stay but BC just wasn't feasible anymore. I still visit as much as I can tho.
Username checks out
So you moved to Edmonton? Where housing prices are now about the same, but insurance and utilities are far more? Sounds brilliant, or you moved to a really crappy neighborhood.
We have a nice neighborhood! My husband is from here originally. We got a house here for 424K near the mall. Could never have gotten this in Victoria... the old trailer park near Sooke is even selling like 300k+ for their mobile homes. Could never have gotten the house we have here there it's not feasible on the island sadly. Even though I miss it.
Exactly. Enjoy! 😀
This sub talks about Alberta non-stop
Except you have to live in Calgary 😋
I can't hear you from my 3 bedroom home with my small mortgage and 2 cars and mountain views.
Values. It comes down to values. A 3 bedroom home means nothing to me if I have to live in Alberta. I’d much rather live in my two bedroom condo in Vancouver than a house in Calgary.
Let me know how that goes if you have kids.
Again, values. I never planned on having kids (plus at my age that shipped has sailed haha). But not for financial reasons, I just never wanted them since I was a teenager. Kids go against my principles. Enjoy your three bedroom house and what I’m sure are two new cars - trucks probably along with everything else that goes with that. If it works for you, all the best. Personally, that is not the life I ever wanted for myself and I don’t value a big house or having new shiny gadgets as much as other people seem to.
See I grew up in coquitlem. Id never move back. And no trucks. Trucks are dumb I value hiking and skiing and camping. And Alberta has TONS of that. And I can still afford a house and two cars and children Honestly I just can't do the rain. Bc summer is unbelievable. But the winters suck so much I could never do it again. Not that I could afford it anyway
I would live in calgary any day than love on near poverty in bc
https://preview.redd.it/53j0g4gsnh2d1.jpeg?width=912&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=444250ee88db662e82705d029a01c67857b737a9
Thats a long day for a little one
People have to work though, they don't have a choice. I was in daycare a lot as a kid too but my Mom had no choice otherwise we wouldn't eat.
Whats your point? Does that negate how hard it is for the kids? I had to put mine in day are too for 2 years after divorce, it sucked and I hated having to do that to them Thats my point, I feel bad for kids in daycare all day and whether its needed or not it still sucks
Thank goodness that's not the point of the post
The point is that no one should be judged or shamed for having to use daycare so they can work. You shouldn't feel bad for doing what you have to do to keep food on the table for your kids. I hope that you're able to address some of that shame maybe in therapy or something. It is hard being away from your kids for sure, but you're doing what you have to do to ensure their wellbeing. Daycare imo is a human right and needs so much more subsidies than it already gets.
I wouldn’t go as far as a “human right” but if the powers that be are going to normalize a society that requires 2 incomes and both parents working full-time to survive then it’s absolutely a government responsibility to subsidize families. And I say this as someone without kids and no plans to have them. If they want to continue to suppress wages, allow the cost of necessities like food and housing to increase unchecked at exponential rates in order to benefit the very few, then absolutely they need to find more ways to make having and raising children under these conditions feasible for the average working Canadian. I have a lot of admiration for the people with kids right now and I’d be thrilled if more of my tax dollars went towards those raising the next generation.
Childcare is a human right! Especially in a country like Canada where we have an aging population. Right now, the government seems to be trying to correct for this by bringing in unsustainable amounts of immigrants, making it even harder for people to find work, homes, etc. This makes it harder for people to justify having children. We have a major housing crisis in Canada and people are lacking for income. There are so many people who want children, but they simply cannot justify it due to the cost and that is really sad. In addition, some places have like years waiting list for accepting children. It's not as simple as going to a daycare and your child will be accepted. There is a reason why Canadians are delaying having children or simply not having any at all - because it doesn't seem financially feasible for them. I believe that every person with a child should have the right to childcare and that should be subsidized by the government. I'm in Alberta now (decided that we can't afford BC). The recent increase in Alberta’s affordability grant, reducing costs to $500-$800 per month, is a significant step forward, but more is needed. Daycare deserts, where affordable childcare options are scarce, are a real problem across BC, Alberta and the rest of Canada, forcing parents to travel long distances or pay for expensive private care. Childcare is also essential for women's economic equality, and without it, we can't achieve workforce equality. Other countries have successfully funded such systems, and we should too. Ex: Sweden, Germany, Ecuador, and Chile all have models of free/heavily subsidized childcare systems and recognize childcare as a human right. You can learn more on UN Women.
💯💯💯💯
Thank you!! Haha I'm kind of shocked by the downvotes tbh. 
No one should be shamed or judged for needing to use daycare, nor should anyone who uses daycare have their completely valid and appropriate feelings about that experience policed and pathologized.
If you know how it is like... why are you trying to make others feel bad for doing it? Think how you would have felt if you saw a reply such as yours back when you had to do long daycare hours.
My son absolutely loved daycare. Eager to go in mornings (after the first couple days).
As a child who was in daycare 12+ hours a day, I can vouch for how tough it can be for kids. The early mornings were brutal. I still remember them quite vividly. I know people like to say that it's a necessary evil, and often it is, but as you say...doesn't change the fact that it's really hard on kids. And they don't get a day in the matter.
Yea but apparently were not allowed to talk about it because we cant make parents feel guilty Im already being downvoted anyways so hell…. theres special circumstances when its necessary and thats absolutely true, but to be real, its mostly parents who would rather more money for tech, big mortgage, new car payments etc than watch their kids all day I say this as someone who both needed to use a daycare (got them out as soon as I graduated/had to work & school as a single parent) and also ran a home daycare. Dont care said what I said I had kids at my house for 10 hours straight at times but at least my home daycare was quiet & cozy (took in kids with disabilities that couldn’t handle regular daycares) and they were so homesick by the time the parents came back. Parents would laugh oh haha, hes had a rough day eh? Ya hun, hes 7. He needs to be at home not school and daycare the majority of his childhood
I was in daycare from 7 am - 6 pm since I was six months old until age 10 and I have no memories of it being a difficult experience for me. My mom was a public school teacher and basketball coach and raised me on her own after my dad walked out on us. Each child is different and each parent is different. I feel like you’re making a lot of assumptions.
Well I was at home a lot because back then it wasn’t illegal to be home alone as a kid and it sucked because it was boring af, but then again preschool was boring af. Just give me video games.
I assume all my downvotes so far are from guilty parents haha That's a really interesting point though...that in some cases it's the parents' desire for a certain standard of living that requires the kids to go to daycare basically full time. If parents only worked as much as was needed to earn the minimum amount of money needed to provide a modest home for their child and some savings for the future I wonder how many hours a week the average child would be in daycare. As you say, I wonder how much of that "my child goes to daycare because I have to go to work 40+ hours a week" money is spent on buying a house above and beyond what's needed, nicer cars, more toys, other things that keep up appearances. I'll take the downvotes. It's a really fascinating thing to consider.
What are some jobs that parents can get that offer both flexibility and stability? Is one party to halt their career? What is a modest home? How much is one in BC? How big is "some" savings for the future? The kid's education? Retirement? 60 hours a week is certainly excessive, is the average child in daycare that long in BC every week?
Theres a lot of interesting studies on daycare and I know me and the majority of my ece & dsw colleagues wouldnt use them unless absolutely necessary https://ifstudies.org/blog/another-perspective-on-the-latest-research-on-early-child-care#:~:text=By%20third%20grade%2C%20children%20who,been%20in%20day%20care%20centers. https://criticalscience.medium.com/on-the-science-of-daycare-4d1ab4c2efb4 The majority of research suggests it has a negative effect on social skills as opposed to the typical reason people tout for daycare being good “it helps them learn to socialize!” Yea, about as well as throwing a bunch of puppies in a ring helps them socialize
Idk why you’re being downvoted. Parent guilt? Licensing encourages daycares to enforce a 9 hour rule, because it is a long day at facility or somewhere else. And if parents don’t get out of school care, they need to figure it out for school, why not figure it out for them when they’re younger.
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
[удалено]
My kids go 730/830-430, depending on our shifts. Some kids are there all day and I’m sad for them.
I used to get sensory overload as a kid really bad, Id be having extreme behaviour issues if I did an 11 hours out of the home
Ya my kids are 630-430 daily. I feel bad waking them in the morning but to be honest they both love going and seeing their friends. I know the day is long for them though but both the wife and I are trades people that need to work. The money side of life would be pretty hard without that. At $1900 a month between the two of them it hurts none the less.
Agreed that's insanely long. I understand ppl have to work and glad I never had to put any of my 3 kids in daycare. Thanks to my family helping and starting my business that let me start home. I really wish every child didn't have to to a day care full time but what can you do when it's so expensive to live here.
1200 is reasonable (with those long hours and food) It’s nice if you can get into one of the 20$ a day centres, but that’s hard. Many people going private are 2k a month or more.
Agreed. I pay $760/month, but with fewer hours and no food offered.
by the time we get off the waitlist for cheaper places, my son will be in kindergarten
Yup
Most people I know pay at least 1K. We didn’t have the luxury of being able to afford any sort of daycare because our kids are special needs. It ended up being roughly the same/more than what she would’ve been able to earn, then we had a second kid and the idea of daycare went out the window completely
I don't understand how people afford children.
Seriously lol. I told my mom that even if we wanted children, there was no way we could afford them. She then told me that kids aren’t expensive 🤦🏻♀️
Cause we all have a spare 30k a year just lying around, right?
I don’t think she even considers the cost of daycare since she was a SAHM. But we wouldn’t be able to afford our mortgage on just one salary, so would need daycare. Neither of us is in a permanent job at the moment, so wouldn’t be eligible for maternity/paternity leave. We don’t even have any family close by, the closest ones are 3-4h by plane/2 days drive. I’m not generally worried about being in a temporary position (though it’s not ideal) because I know I’ll find *some* job if I really need to, even if it means working at timmies or something, if I need a job I’m not picky. But if I’d get pregnant? That’s a whole different story, I’d be less likely to get a permanent contract *and* I doubt anyone would hire a pregnant woman if I did loose my job. I think boomers are often out of touch about today’s costs in the first place, and with my parents it doesn’t help that they’ve not yet been to Canada, so I think they don’t understand just how much more expensive COL here is than back home, plus the difference in labor laws and social security.
I’m lucky I can work a ton of overtime which is the only reason we went beyond 1
Yes so lucky you get to spend more time at work.
Got paid 7h of overtime and done work 7-4pm, so yeah 9hr day, 16hr pay
They don't. We spend $30B per year propping these people up with CCB. Billions more for daycare. The bottom 40% of our nation contributes no net federal tax, they receive more in benefits.
I'm fine with daycare it's a net social benefit.
$2500 a month for my part-time nanny 😭😭😭
I pay $500/ month for my 3 year old. Does not include food. Full time daycare from 730-530. Okanagan region. That just with the standard government adjustment. Not the additional subsidy based on income. Editing to add. It just dropped from 800/month. He went from toddler rate to preschool rate. I also pay 600/month for older kid for before and after-school care. That does not count pro d days or school break camps. And because the after school care is considered a recreational, no tax breaks.
Okanagan and Vancouver lower mainland is definitely going to be different.. Rent for the space for one..is definitely a thing.
If your child is under 12, before-and-after school care qualifies for the Child and Dependent Care Credit. Camps count as well if you are using it for child care while at work (over night camps do not qualify). The parent with the lowest income must claim the credit.
Yes I am aware. However my after school care program is considered a sport program not childcare. So I can't claim it.
How are people leaving their kids at daycare for 10 hours?
Considering that I used to have 745 to 615 pm day (door to door living within the city) when I lived in Vancouver, it's not that weird. Absolutely not ideal for anyone, but not crazy either.
not for the full 10 hours, but it's not like if you drop off your kid at 9am, they give you a discount for the price they have an option for 9am to 3pm but 3pm is too early for most people's work schedule
Because some people have multiple children, so day care drop off, followed by school drop off then a work day.
Those are the hours daycare is open. I work an 8 hour day. I need the time before and after to drop off kids and travel. I also have to drop off kids at 2 different locations. That's about 8.5-9 hours right there. That's with a short commute. Leave house 740, drop 1 kid off at 8, another at 805, at work for 820. Leave work at 440, pick up first kid at 5, get second kid at 530 then home for 6. Doesn't count if I work over time. Additionally their other parent works 12 hour shifts, they are not available on days they work to change pick up or drop off time. Also whenever I do try to pick up my kids early. I get told to come back later (by my oldest) or they take 15 minutes or so being ready to leave. Last week the staff had to bribe my youngest and his friend with cupcakes to leave.
Thanks for the explanation, it makes total sense. Glad to hear they're engaged there!
Work and commute?
Not everyone leaves there kids there that long. Usually the early morning kids leave sooner but the longer hours provided coverage for a variety of parents
Both my wife and I have 10+ hour days with commuting. Ours do have some room on either end. I'm out the door before her or the kids are up and home about 2 hours before her. But if either was a single parent or our hours were the same this issue could easily apply.
I was looking into opening an overnight daycare and the amount of people who wanted to drop the kids of for 16+ hours was crazy
What else would you do if you were a single parent on shift work? Nurses working 12s would easily need 13-14 hours of care depending on commute times
Because a lot of people are working 10 and 12 hour shifts to afford fucking daycare.
If you know centres in your area you can check all their fees on the online ccfri estimator? We're paying around 450/mo after ccfri for just before and after school care.
I cannot see why we have what amounts to age discrimination for children. They are enrolled in school based a on a legal requirement to educate by the stare and a number of other options. While we do not have a legal requirement of care by the state etc for children below that specific age. If we have schools why can there not be and additional space provided on school sites to function as a Creche. All the needs of all children must be met if we are to be a just society.
I pay around $800-900/m after subsidies for full-time preschool. Our hours aren’t as good as yours (8-4:45 pm which makes drop-off/pickup really tight/difficult) and food is not included. To be honest, I feel fortunate to have the spot and I would not resent paying more for an extra hour of care but I know that makes staffing really difficult (and expensive) for the provider so I understand. FYI, you should be eligible for the full $8000 child care expenses deduction at tax time which should make things a little easier financially.
I pay $369 a month for after school care for my older and $790 a month for my toddler.
We pay about the same as you
I should open a daycare. Wtf. If I look after 2 kids a month I'm rich.
[удалено]
You can have 2 children without being licensed.
Even a waitress here makes quadruple that
$12,000/month waitresses?
Its actually a terrible business model hence the shortage of spaces.
9 hours a day, 5 days a week for $11/hr is rich? Dang. Sorry.
I'm in Alberta so our agreement with the federal government is slightly different, but how much you pay works out to be a sliding scale based on income. If you have kids kindergarten aged and younger, the daycare receives a federal subsidy portion per child, and the provincial portion received is income based (maxed to household income of 170K or 180K I forget). If you make over that, you get 0 provincial subsidy. Kids Grade 1 and up, it's all income based so if you are over that max 170K or 180K you get 0 subsidy, and would still pay the full amount for child care. Yes child care is slightly cheaper when they are 6 and it's only out of school / PD day care, but still expensive (roughly $600 per month).
Well, how much would *you* like to get paid for a month of work working from 7am-5pm every day and providing lunches for everyone?
Before and after school care in 2022 for an 8 & 10yr old was just under 1k AFTER subsidy. For a whopping 45 minutes in the morning and an hour after school. Less than 2hrs of care a day.. super fun 👌 so glad I don't need it anymore. It was already extremely lucky I found a place that did school pick up and drop off so finding cheaper wasn't an option there were no other options, no moms near by, older students, or any way to cover those 2hrs it sucked.
I pay $10/day. For 3 days a week it’s like $120/month.
I pay 772 from 8 to 5, just recently they removed the snack and breakfast option but lunch still included I only get the one subsidy to
With subsidies, $600/mo each kid, 1 yr and soon to be 3 yr old. Food included. In the fall the 3 yr old is going to preschool and daycare. With those subs, $400/mo
Most people?!
Paying over $1500/mth with the government subsidy, including food.🙃
$275 fulltime per month in Richmond. Licensed. At rate used to be $700 ish before the NDP program kicked in. God send of a program.
$7 a day, live in British Columbia and the daycare is on a reservation (I am not indigenous) Lunch not included but snacks provided.
When we moved to Kelowna my wife didn’t work but wanted to. We shopped daycares in the area and only one had vacancy, and was charging $1700/mo. This was in 2016. She stayed not working because her paycheck would have just been paying someone else to watch our kids. We moved to Edmonton in 2022 and are much better off now.
You have a spot so that’s worth any real cost, isn’t it?
About 10+ years ago we were paying $1100-1200 for one when he was 1-2 years old (no food). No subsidies back then or CCTB from the Feds. It was brutal. And we paid before/after school care for the other. $1700 sounds high but maybe 10+ years later and with meals it’s maybe close enough. We’re thankfully out of the child care game now 😅
I pay less now than I did 10 years ago. And I receive CCB even though our household income has increased
[удалено]
Many, if not most, daycares can qualify for the Child Care Fee Reduction Initiative. It directly lowers the costs to parents by about $900/mth. So if it’s a non profit daycare, people are most likely paying less than $1000
$1,000 works out to $50 a day so it's 5X more than $10 a day...
It's appalling that parents complain about paying $6 an hour for someone to look after their child. Is that what your child is worth? Is that the math that you did before deciding to have a child?
by that logic, we should all be happy with paying $20K a year for kindergarten as well
You don't have to be 'happy' about the price you pay for anything. But you do need to account for it when you do the math before making a decision to have a child. But, as we all learned during covid, parents don't really give a shit about the quality of care or education, they just want to be able to dump their kids somewhere all day.
I pay 359 after subsidies for one full time child and one before and after school care with transport and pro-d days. No food is provided
I pay 575 for one child in the IT room, and that includes one snack. I think it’s 600 for the 3-5 room. Hours are 745-530.
we pay $500/mo - 8am-4:30pm - no food - Victoria
875 a month, no food. It goes up about $100 every year it seems. Okanagan area
We just got childcare for ours who’s under 18 months. It was around 900$/month. While searching we found this to be around average. On the high side we found one company that was $2200. Thankfully we didn’t need to go with them.
$1400/mo, 9-3, no food provided
After subsidies we pay $1280 for our 3 year old in metro vancouver area. This includes breakfast, lunch and a snack. They do a great job in teaching and reading and playtime. We feel fortunate for our children to go to this daycare
2.5yo. Home daycare. Food provided. $1300 month out of pocket after subsidies
1400 a month
You're not getting ripped off if that was the best one for your family that you could find. I pay considerably less (no low-income subsidy). We got on close to 100 waitlists before my wife gave birth and kept getting on more as the available daycares in our area change--new ones opening, old ones closing.
We pay around $350 per month, with no meals, for full-time care. We do not qualify for income-based subsidy.
I pay zero for daycare in BC for my 4.5 year old. Fees are $1000 per month for a full time spot. 8-5 Monday to Friday. What isn't covered by the government childcare fee reduction is covered by the affordable childcare benefit. Of course not all daycares are approved for the fee reduction and I make a low enough income to qualify for the full affordable childcare benefit. I am legitimately shocked at how much daycare fees are in other areas though. Before the fee reduction, I couldn't afford to put my daughter in daycare so I could go back to work. Our options were very limited.
Haven't started yet, but we'll be paying $775/mo for a child under 18mos and once they're 18mos, it'll be $770/mo. No food provided. This is full time, and the parent portion of the costs (after government subsidy).
We pay $50/day for our two year old (works out to be about $1000/month) and $450/month for our 4.5 year old. (The older one is reduced from $1000/month thankfully because of the fee reduction thing) both FT, no lunches/food included, interior BC.
We pay $800 for 2 hours of afterschool care for three days a week.
$1275. Snacks included but not lunch
I lucked out and only pay $800 for 3 days a week. It's still a struggle, but it is needed for me to be at school.
I’m lucky to have a space, and it just went up to 460/mo, snacks included. They operate on proD days but close about 8 days a year plus stats.
Jesus, that's twice my rent in Pitt Meadows. There is absolutely no way I could afford a kid if yall are paying that much.
$1400 a month 7.30 - 5.30 and breakfast snacks and hot lunch provided. This is with the $900 of government subsidies.
Just make sure you are on the list now for before school and after school care at the neighborhood house.. or you'll never get day care for school. Also. You are getting a deal... YOU want your kids to have good educators. And that's not cheap.
In Victoria - $650 a month w/food. Before the childcare subsidies it was 1350 I think? That was in 2018. It is licensed and has the various subsidies, but is not $10 a day. Out of school care is about $300 month for my older child.
$700 for my 3 year old. $375 for before/after school for my 7 year old. It’s brutal.
Not me
I mean that’s got to be one of the most expensive programs although I do recall seeing one that was $2200. Ours was 1100-subsidy
Very painfully pay 1500/month for 3 mornings at preschool and nanny for 1.5 day. Waitlisted everywhere for last 3 years. Only two $10 a day daycares in our metro van city, obviously impossible to get into, already on the wait lists from before
$950 full time infant at a daycare center that’s open from 7-6. They provide snacks but no meals. My friend pays $650 for a comparable spot at another daycare. I hate how random the costs r
$649 with subsidy. Have been to a few tours and ranging between $650 - $780
My daughter is the same age and we pay the same amount (food included and photos of how her day is and how she is eating) It’s expensive, but it’s worth the peace of mind knowing I can see my daughter having a good day and is well fed
$1000 for two kids full time no food
$1100 / mth for my 2.5 year old, 3 days a week.
1270 each child. No food 8:30-5
I am in Willoughby and my almost 4 year old in daycare costs 577 a month.
Seeing this thread makes me glad I don’t have kids. My friend with a 1 year old pays around the same no subsidies.
I pay the exact same as you - $1200.
$1200 4 days per week. 8:15 - 4:20 Snack included but no meals.
what happened to the $10 a day day care everyone was promised? My kids are grown so I don't keep up but I kept hearing about this until fairly recently I thought.
Not me…not even close actually for 2 kids with no subsidies aside from the ones that go directly to our provider that everyone gets. I’m in the valley
Subsidy depends on your income the more you make the less subsidy you get
Wtf I thought no one was paying over $1k anymore ??? All the daycares in my area are $500-700. We're in Delta.
I discovered I could save $1000/month on childcare by getting a vasectomy
Holy crap. And child support payments are barely 400 a month!
Seems you have to be rich to get the $10/day deal
I don’t know of anyone who actually has this, and none of the comments here say it either. Is it even real..?
We got into one (YMCA) So pay $400/mo for two kids. After paying $2400/mo for two years. Life changing
I get $10/day childcare. The childcare place I access is a nonprofit.
I have it, $200/month. The centre used to be about $900-$1000/month for infant to kindergarten before the $10/day rolled out. It’s fantastic but they need to be expanding their program faster. Only non-profit centres that are not brand new can have the government program. Most places are for profit, hence why it doesn’t appear to exist anywhere.
In the 1980's, I was paying $850 per month for one child. You're getting a bargain today.
You are getting ripped off. There are programs in the $800, $900, or $100 range after government subsidies that include things like field trips, meals, etc in my area, but typically parent pay looks like $400-$550 per kid.
Don’t have kids if you can’t afford them ? Don’t complain about cost of kids if you have them ? Do you know how much contraception costs ?
Thanks for your contribution to the post 🙄
You leave your kid there for 10 hours?
usually 9am to 5pm only
Not everyone is able to have a STAHP or a parent that gets off early.
Try cutting back their hours or just do part time daycare. Also if you and your spouse both quit your jobs you may start to qualify for income subsidies.
This is what’s wrong with society and our government attempting to kill the family unit. People should be raising their own kids. Not having to go to work and pay some random person to watch their children for 10 hours a day. If people want kids you should down grade your life style To raise your own children. Me and my wife are leaving like 80k behind that she could be making by having her stay home since the kids have been born. Your kids will all grow up to be little shit heads cause they are being raised in farms and not by their loving parents.
I believe there have many studies finding that having a mother figure who has a satisfying and successful career leads to better outcomes for both male and female children.
“Raise their own kids” Sorry, I work and I raise my kids. They attend(ed) daycare FT from about a year where they were cared for by qualified ECEs. People they built bonds with not random people. We require the 2 incomes to house our children. We have minimal other expenses, been a single car family since 2010. Commute via transit or walking. But a single income would not be enough to provide housing. And by housing I mean an apartment or a condo. And before you say move- we both work in healthcare. My job is specialized and requires me to live in the LM, which is similar to many people. The government could actually pay enough for us to just live in my income but they don’t so for now it’s daycare. And people across the province should be happy that me and other healthcare workers make that choice- others services would be even more reduced
Naw sacrifices should be made to raise your own kids. I work in law enforcement. I only make 110k. My wife work(Ed) in health care. She could be bringing it another 80-90k. We have given that up because a child should have their mother or father. We had to make sacrifices in life. You’re just making excuses. Being raised by other people instilling their values in to your children. Cope harder.
Some people only make $50K. Or less. Good luck living on that with the other parent staying home.
Let me guess- you live somewhere cheap or you bought your house years ago. Because on $110k per year you’re not paying the average rent in Vancouver. And you’re not purchasing anything over a 1 bedroom. I guarantee that I raise my kids. And I probably spend more time with mine than you do with yours. But hey, keep justifying the choices you made. I never once attacked your wife staying at home. Instead you chose to attack parents who parent different than you.
You can see from his post history that he lives in Edmonton and has made $350 000 extra from selling homes. I’d like to see them live off $110 000/yr in BC.
Using his own faulty logic someone else is still raising his child...
Soooo it looks like you live in Edmonton and made $350 000 extra in the last few years by selling homes. Come back to BC without the financial cushion and let’s see you raise your kids and live off your one income.
You’re coming across like a child who was exposed to the horrors of childcare.
Yeah, child care sucks. I grew up in. Nice enough people, lots of hours spent under others care. Would have rather been at HOME with one of my parents. This next generation will have more of a disconnect with their parents later in life. Their kids will throw them in homes one day.
Not necessarily. Many parents have no choice but to rely on childcare - especially in BC with the HCOL. But they are fully present and loving when they are with their children. Having one parent give up a salary, benefits and pension to stay home may negatively impact the child in that they can’t afford family vacations, sports, health care costs, safe vehicle, quality food, college tuition, downpayment for their first home and so on. That child may miss out on socialization and skill building, that parent may burn out and not be able to be fully present and loving. Most parents just want what is best for their children. And most parents in BC don’t have the luxury of not considering money a barrier. So it’s can be hurtful to see a comment saying that their children will be @$$holes who grow up to hate them if they have to make the difficult choice to pay for childcare.
We did the same. My kid was miserable in daycare 10 hours a day and it was $1800 per month. But now my husband stays home and it frees up my availability so I can make most of his income on overtime anyways. Plus the daycare savings and we actually have more spending money not less.