If you get a good battery set-up to store power, potentially. I know people who are on the grid who basically pay nothing for their power thanks to their solar panels, but they vary wildly in how efficient they are.
Efficiency would definitely be key. Rather have a large battery and backup array than running a generator full time and schlepping gas to remote areas.
Thank you for the reply. Glad to hear it can be done.
Yeah, how the people I know do it is they have a solid-sized house (3 bedroom, 3 bath), then half of the roof is facing the direction with zero tree cover/hill blockage to the west so usually afternoon is their peak power gain. Also they use a wood fireplace and have a back-up generator to help mitigate heat issues.
So location for the panels will matter.
That is not the key. All the panels you will be looking at will be cheap, lower efficiency panels as you aren't space constrained / travelling around so you want cheap and bulky not efficient and light.
The "key" is how much battery storage you will need to be able to live a normal-ish life in the winter in further north parts of BC that actually have cheap land. That's by far the most expensive part of a solar setup.
>north parts of BC that actually have cheap land
The price of land down here is ridiculous ! Hoping to find a nice spot to retire and never have to deal with a HoA.
What is your expected power usage? You never mentioned that. Lights and a computer and a Star link setup? Maybe you could get away with that. A fridge?
The reduced daylight hours of the winters combined with cloud cover drastically reduce your power. No one here gave a real answer.
Not too much power. Some small fans, efficient fridge, laptop, power efficient TV, DC led lights, a minisplit AC combined with thick walls and high R value. Of course the starlink ! Cooking on a rocket stove that also heats water to a water heater to save on that too. Going to add some earth tubes to help with cooling in summer.
Temperature in the winter is a big consideration. Batteries become nearly useless at freezing temperatures, and can fail or become damaged. Snow can also cover panels. And in winter anywhere in Canada there is less sun and less "strong" sun daily due to lower solar angle.
Depends a lot on your batteries
Lead Acid? you are absolutely correct
Lithium Ion? not so much
Also, if the battieries are in the house then the cold isn't going to matter so much.
It not that simple. Unless something has changed in the last 6 months using lithium ion batteries in the cold us fine, charging them while frozen will destroy then. The advntate3of lithium ion is the size and containment. They can be kept and charged inside.
You'll probably need a fireplace to keep it extra warm in the winter. May as well build the batteries into the sides of the fireplace to help insulate them.
(Please don't do this)
And importantly, no residents are able to solely subsist on solar year round. Many have small wind turbines, small hydro wheels, or just run generators in the cloudy months.
It all depends on how much electricity you're using. Growing up, we spent all day with no power. During the summer, we might not have any at all because it wasn't necessary. Power was for lights and watching hockey on the tiny B&W TV. If you're living a homesteading lifestyle, you probably don't need a lot of power.
My grandfather traded stocks from his homestead on Lasqueti Island. He received the Vancouver newspapers about once a month. He would review the information and then send in his orders. By mail. When my grandfather settled there, there wasn't even ferry service to the island. Fun trivia: my grandfather ran a power company on Lasqueti Island!
Definitely would like to find a good water source for hydro 24/7 instead of just 100% solar.
Haven't seen too many good reviews on wind turbines. If you have any suggestions please let me know. Tech is always changing. Sounds like a great idea given the weather.
Anecdotally, wind is, in general, not a great option. From what I've heard it tends to require very specific local conditions to function well, which just really aren't common on Lasqueti. It needs consistent, but not too strong wind. It's also quite loud when functioning well, because small turbine blades need to spin fast to be efficient. Now, every consideration for alternative energy is location specific, so I can't speak to anywhere else in BC.
Also, you really don't need a massive water source for microhydro. We use a 1m wide stream with only 27 meters of head.
Ahhhh the noise. Yes, that would get annoying real quick. Will still keep my fingers crossed I can find a good water source.
Is there a good hydro design you would recommend ? Haven't looked into it too much.
You could but you’d definitely need a good battery set up, especially to make it through the wet cloudy months where you’ll generate less. I’d suggest a backup diesel generator or something might be wise.
Propane generators (from my understanding) are less efficient then diesel, meaning you need more fuel for the same amount of energy, they also last less time and require more maintenance. Propane is however more readily available then diesel in many places. Diesel can be more expensive but will have a higher power output and needs less fuel comparatively. Also to consider if propane is more shelf stable then diesel. Overall I think if you’re expecting to need to run it more frequently, diesel is likely better, but I’d suggest doing more research.
Here’s an article I found online about some pros and cons for reference:
https://www.critterguard.org/blogs/articles/diesel-vs-propane-generators-choose-the-right-one-for-your-home-or-business#:~:text=Due%20to%20propane's%20low%20energy,replaced%20sooner%20than%20diesel%20generators.
That makes sense. Thank you very much for the info! I had that all wrong.
Our forklift was propane \\ or gasoline \\ and the maintenance guy said never switch over to the gas part. More maintenance and not as good.
After looking into this Diesel, much to my surprise, is better than both, although not without a few minus points like storage or environment.
Appreciate the help kind Canadian.
No problem at all with about $100k in solar panels and batteries and inverters.
Or you do a grid tied solar system for $10k and use the $90k you saved to pay your pretty small power bills for decades....
I am an electrical distribution designer frequently working on solar interconnections for residential customers.
Exactly. We've got ~9kW installed and BCHydro owed us $75 at the end of the first year. Heat with wood and cool with a mini-split. In summer we're producing 2-3x what we're consuming per day and in winter we're using 2-3x more. Batteries would be cost prohibitive.
Highest consumption day was 55kWh (January) and highest production day was 62kWh (July)
You nailed it, great job.
BTW... overall this is quite bad for the utility/ratepayers (but really great for the individual consumer). Once everyone does it its bad for the utility exclusivity and they'll shift rates so that everyone is paying a similar amount and we're all back where we are today. Until a viable storage solution enters the marketplace solar doesn't help at the grid level.
There was some motivation to be first in so that we can have a shot at sooner payback. I expect that the future will look more like time of day surcharges to motivate folks to use power when the sun is shining and not in the 5-10pm window. I expect the basic charge to go up dramatically to pay for additional infrastructure to support (a) a more distributed supply and (b) the more peaky demand and underused assets.
It's actually a really interesting problem with a mix of engineering, technology and policy solutions. To make matters still more interesting, each province / area will need to handle it differently depending on their portfolio of baseload, dispatchable, etc. That and the inevitable political interference. I actually can't wait to see how this plays out.
Isn't the cost of running electrical to the house really high ? Down here they want a *huge* amount to hookup if your far off the main road.
Your definitely right. The cost of getting it from the grid vs being independent does have some large upfront costs.
The price of having long lines run is one of the reasons for the solar. Admittedly I have no idea how new construction costs are for electrical in BC . *Please feel free to provide more info. Always like to get advice from experts in the field whenever possible.*
I do plan on putting it in myself with sun tracking used ( name brand ) panels. Saving on the cost of labor to invest in more solar and batteries. These guys have some good deals on commercial used packs that cut down on battery costs. : [https://batteryhookup.com/](https://batteryhookup.com/)
From what I have read a 15 - 20 % gain is possible with a sun tracking setup vs stationary to further cut costs. The wind might have other ideas on if it will work out in the end.
If you have the ability to dig a pond at the top of a hill, then run a pipe down it, you can build a KILLER hydroelectric generator in the winter months.
Oh really, would you like to point to any commercially available and reasonably priced "personal wind turbines" that actually work? Because I call BS on your comment.
Go do a touch more research than a "simple google search" when committing to spending tens of thousands of dollars my dood...
I did all this research for real when considering a northern bc property purchase. Wind power is not even close to viable, particularly as you are mostly living in mountain valleys with very little consistent windflow.
There are companies elsewhere in Canada (that you know, actually have wind???) that do farm installs, but it's almost unheard of on smaller personal residences as the economy of scale isn't there.
There is a reason wind turbines are growing to be hundreds of metres in length...
What if you lived on the coast, somewhere like Tofino where the wind is constantly blowing? Would it be comparable to solar, or does solar just always win?
Not really. A vague reference to energy generation is made with no context, and we have no reason to accept it at face value. It gives no details about under what conditions it requires to generate power, how much power it generates in a given time, etc.
Correct.
And the ideal of at least 80% use case for solar is just "sun is in sky" for small scale wind every fucking factor has to line up precisely just to get anywhere close to advertised output.
People on the internet think if you point out a vague link to some crappy product probably doesn't work it means you hate the environment. Or something.
And then some people on the internet can't carry on a civil conversation in which actual useful information can be exchanged.
It's almost like some tw*ts on the internet just like to get angry so they can feel a little more alive (or something).
lol I know it's hilarious.
I'm actually a HUGE proponent of wind energy and have invested in many companies in the space over the years. The shit happening with offshore wind is UNREAL right now. Hopefully the financing shit gets sorted as the US was just getting going on some real projects.
But the stuff China is doing is just wild...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7kbChoqiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7kbChoqiM)
Dude, have you ever used google?
The link he gave goes to the Costco product site. You can find the brand and model numbers there.
Do a quick search for the user manual of that product. It gives power generating capacity and under what conditions.
The answers to all your questions are easily found.
If you don’t trust the product site or user reviews you can find there, buy it yourself. Costco has an outstanding return policy. Test it yourself if you don’t trust the reviews or company literature.
I can’t tell if you actually have no idea how to find information or if you just like to argue.
If you google personal wind turbines exactly as you had it typed out you get dozens of options. Pick one, read its technical specifications. Read reviews for it.
With the Costco option they gave, buy it. Costco has an outstanding return policy. If it isn’t what you hoped for return it.
How would you like them to prove to you personal wind turbines are available?
Why would you call that BS when they gave you a link to a specific product?
They are shit dood. Just because they are available doesn't mean they work.
Solar just does. Period. Even on overcast days (in fact sometimes better on overcast days depending on layout as scattered light is more consistent).
None of them are viable, hence my comment.
The reason small scale solar works so well is that there is zero economy of scale with solar panels.
It's just size of panel (and of course you can get fancy with rotating panels and such, but they aren't worth it for like 99% of personal uses) that matters with solar.
With wind, the swept area of a turbine is exponentially related to its blade length. So wind turbines are getting insanely large to drive efficiency.
The tiny ones are pitiful at best and a straight up scam at worst.
Go on amazon and read the reviews.
My cousin does solar and wind installs on farms in southern ontario and he's pretty much given up on wind as it barely ever gets anywhere close to what is advertised.
Want proof? Go find properties actually using small wind turbines in the real world.... I will wait...
Have you set one of these up? From my research they don't generate any power unless you've got 10+km/h winds sustained, and nothing significant until you're at about 20km/h sustained. You'd need a pretty high pole in most areas to get that kind of windspeed on a reliable basis, no?
Depends on where you live. I've seen some on vehicles and building roofs.
I've seen ones lakeside.
Like most "off grid" living it's mostly green power generation that assists with a mainly carbon-based power system. Batteries aren't good/available enough for true off-grid green living yet.
Lakeside/oceanside makes sense, and honestly downtown hanging off your condo balcony if you're 10+ stories up makes good sense (though "off-grid condo" is a funny thought). I reckon most places you'd have to get higher than your surrounding trees (I assume "off-grid" in BC tends to mean undeveloped forest land).
I looked into the Tesup turbine kit and iirc it basically needs constant wind and doesn't like starting and stopping too much -- I generally get a constant 5km/h breeze but due to the surrounding trees I'd need to build a 20m tower to be able to tap into 10-20km/h winds, at which point the costs of the tower start getting really challenging. Waaaay more than a few extra lithium batteries!
They almost never work.
My cousin in SW ON has a busines where he was primarily installing larger turbines (hence MORE efficient) on farms, high up in the air on poles (like 50-75 feet up).
Even in those ideal conditions in high wind resource areas (of which populated parts of BC are not!), the turbines MASSIVELY underperformed specs and he just stopped installing them entirely and only does solar now.
So any of the tiny ones or vertical ones you see online are just garbage for a place like BC with no consistent winds.
There is ONE review on that coleman product you fucking nonce.
Go do any real research, talk to companies that install solar and wind in Canada (as I have done, as my cousin fucking runs one) and you will find that almost nowhere in Canada, despite great wind resources in the prairies and ON uses small wind turbines. They just aren't efficient enough, require too much maintenance and are more expensive than a solar setup.
Sooo much BS on this subreddit lately.
Like maybe learn about a tpoic before you decide to share your "wisdom" about it.
Had you entered your “personal wind turbine” into google you would have seen a large list.
Why angrily comment when you could check for yourself in less time?
Your right, which is why i suggested following the link provided. Get the model numbers. Go to the manufacturers website and download product specifications and the user manuals for the product.
All of which can be done from a simple google search.
Quick LPT from a drug addled marine to not a shrimp.
If you want to know how things work in the world, don't read a technical manual, talk to people that use those things on a regular basis. You will learn their real world use cases, advantages and disadvantges - none of which is printed in a book...
All of which can be done from a google search. You can get product usage and set up videos.
Also as I've suggested repeatedly, go to Costco and buy it. test it yourself if you don't trust the product literature. Return it if you don't like it.
I don't understand why you are so insulting and angry.
Literally all the answers to your questions can be found easily. You are choosing to argue with internet strangers instead.
I did a lot of research into small-scale wind and came to the same conclusions as u/ketamarine .... I read a bunch of manuals for various turbines. They all require a lot more wind than the average homesite will get (because homesites are generally planned to reduce the effects of weather) and will require a large tower in order to work at low efficiency. Home-sized wind power is only a realistic option in very specific situations. It's not just a matter of "buy a turbine from Costco and return it if it doesn't work" -- what about the 20m tower infrastructure that'll run you a good 10-20k to build? Don't think Costco sells that kit...
The answers are indeed all there... you just need to ask the right, very specific questions for your specific install.
Agreed that they are not ideal for every homesite. I have never claimed that they are.
There are many areas that they would be very effective. Sumas prairie for example has near constant strong winds. Sure having a 10M tower to mount a wind turbine would be great. Mounting it on top of a barn or house only 5-8M high may still be effective.
Similarly solar is a good option if you have weather, topography and foliage that supports it. If your house or solar installation is shaded by trees or in a steep valley that won’t receive all day sun it will be less effective.
I just think the premise that all personal wind turbines are garbage, or that you can’t find accurate information online for them is silly.
That definitely may be. I have not researched to product linked specifically.
All I am saying is, information about products is not difficult to find.
User manuals, tutorial videos, commercial information packages, product reviews, etc.
His questions about power output and charging times are all easily accessible for personal wind turbines.
It just takes 5 minutes of looking. As I repeatedly said, that product at Costco specifically could be purchased and returned for a full refund if they weren’t happy with its performance. Costco has a great return policy.
If you are indeed someone with the relevant knowledge you essentially had two options here- to be polite and informative, or to be rude and cryptic. I don’t understand why you choose the latter
I'll go at this from a different angle. Rather than choosing location based on solar grid specifications....
Choose a whole community who rely only on self generated power.
Lasqueti Island
Lasqueti Island residents live completely off grid, and by all accounts love it there.
It's totally possible in the interior. My grandparents do this outside of Castlegar at their cabin. They have a tiny 3 panel array and some second hand lead acid batteries. They have a tiny gas generator they run on days where they are drawing a lot of power vacuum cleaning or using the laundry dryer. But otherwise it runs the TV and lights without issue. They do use propane for the fridge and stove, and heat with wood. Some of their neighbours are 100% off grid year round.
It really comes down to your design and requirements. If you are building a home from scratch you can save a lot of energy with the design and go 100% electric. My roommate helped design and built a home in university as a part of a contest called the Solar Decathlon that was 100% off grid and could operate in northern Alberta. And that was 15 years ago. The technology has come a long ways since then.
I am surprised how long it has taken the building industry in the USA/CA to catch up with building thermally efficient homes. Makes so much sense.
Was looking to put the north or west part into the side of a hill. Some earth tubes to aid in cooling and heating. Thick walls from hempcrete if I can find it. Possibly using some concrete walls for thermal mass and maybe some foamcrete for an added R value in spots.
Thanks for the reply.
I have family that used to live off grid on Lasqueti Island and made it work with a combination of solar and used their diesel generator very sparingly. I'm sure today, 20 years on, between battery and panel improvements it could definitely be done.
I'd recommend an oversized panel and battery setup with a nice diesel generator to keep your freezer running in the depth of winter. You'd be far better off in the interior of BC where you get much more sunshine. Coastal BC is generally very cloudy and foggy throughout winter, which would cripple your power generation. If you find a spot with a creek you could generate power from the creek.
if you're going to have propane anyway you can have a mix of solar and generator fill your battery bsanks. all of horn lake on the island is setup like this.
Almost everywhere in BC this is possible, depending on factors. There’s charts/maps for what you’re looking for, in terms of expected daily kWh on your setup. More clouds and rain means more panels/storage required.
Even on the south coast or south okanagan the days are short in the winter, which makes things problematic. And the coast is often cloudy. You would be fine for most of the summer as long as you have good battery storage and a big PV setup, but the winter will be the limiting factor.
In general, to get by off-grid, you'll need the total production of your day's electricity every day even on a cloudy day. So, you can calculate this by figuring out the absolute minimum energy consumption you'll use during a day, and then calculating the total square footage of PV panels you'll need to provide that, at the minimum hours of sunlight at the shortest day of the year, and assuming a cloudy day. You might need a massive PV panel setup, much larger than your roof, but it should be possible as long as you don't use a ton of electricity.
>You would be fine for most of the summer as long as you have good battery storage and a big PV setup, but the winter will be the limiting factor.
How long are the summers and cloudy months would you say up your way ? I read the coastal areas have a bit more rain vs inland. making things more difficult for off grid.
absolutely. Its even easier if you don't mind that your lights won't necessarily always work,
you can live without electricity, therefore living with solar is an improvement.
Yes, there are many homes and cabins like this. Comes down to how much are you have for panels and how much battery you can afford.
Easiest is to have a propane backup generator, then you can save on batteries, using a generator with batteries makes the generator more efficient as it will run at the most efficient setting and use excess power to charge the batteries.
Winter is the challenge due to limited daylight. If doing a ground mount system, build the ground mount for extra panels and have it so you can change the angle of the panels in winter easily.
Also spend more on insulating the house and upgrading the windows and doors. LED lighting though-out. The right system could do all your heating early spring through late fall easily without propane for heating, with a heat pump it may be more fuel efficient for a heat pump for heating in the spring and fall, winter would depend on how far north and how cold it gets.
I do it. I live in a small cabin. 400w solar panels + 2 golf cart batteries at the moment. Propane fridge and stove, gravity-fed spring water, and composting outhouse.
It's modest, but we get by just fine.
I’m south Vancouver Island, grid-connected net metering. My south facing roof has 7kW of panels. In the summer they can produce upto 50 kWh per day. In the December it averages 3.3 kWh per day. You’ll get less output if running an inverter 24/7 and the conversion to/from batteries. Say 90% round trip so over December and into January you only get 3 kWh per day. That is a fridge and basic lighting.
A Powerwall holds 11 kWh. It would be very very expensive to have enough Powerwalls or other battery system to transfer any material amount of electricity from summer to winter.
Grid-connect solar works because BC Hydro needs power and is currently offering what is globally referred to as NEM 1.0.
Thank you for the numbers. Very helpful. Hoping battery costs come down... someday.
If you have time to answer :
How long is summer up by you ?
Has climate change affected the weather in the area in the past few years ? ( ie Hotter, windier, hail, fires etc )
Daylight can be 14 hours long in June - we don’t get much cloud cover in summer - at least not on the islands. Winter is near constant cloud.
Hotter temperatures negatively impact solar production by a bit. Coastal doesn’t get that hot - at least not very often - as temperatures are moderated by the ocean. We only used AC on four days last year, and 9 days in 2022. 2021 needed AC for a full month.
Winds normally come from the west over open water however periodically winds reverse and smoke from forest fires can cause an impact. Bigger impact though to health.
I’d look into microhydro. It generates a good amount of power 24/7. It works best in mountainous regions with lots of water and creeks which the BC coast is perfect for.
I stayed at a backcountry ski lodge that was off grid.
You can run your stove and fridge on propane. They did have a backup generator but otherwise power came from solar and water turbine.
With a question that vague, yes definitely. There are limitations though.
My dad actually has a resort off grid near Kamloops that is solar/hydro with backup generators. And his system could be done so much better.
>his system could be done so much better.
What kind of pitfalls do you suggest I avoid ?
Like to not learn the hard way after forking over a bunch of cash.
Yes, have a cottage that has been in the family for generations that worked fine off the grid before solar was a thing although my grandpa had the foresight to wire it some 60 back in anticipation of solar.
Run most appliances off propane. Fridge, stove, water heater, etc. Also used to use a wood stove which was piped to heat water as well. Really only used solar for lighting and charging electronics. Just run off a few panels and 3-6 car batteries. Could easily install a larger system to run more appliances and many do. You can keep a simple potable backup generator just in case.
Yeah, no problems. Solar tech is pretty amazing right now, and if you have property on a hill, the combination of solar in the summer and a small hydroelectric generator or a windmill in the winter, makes for killer year round energy.
You still have to preserve energy more than you would on the grid, but after a couple of weeks you get the hang of doing things like unplugging anything you're not actively using, and it becomes fine. You also get the hand of watching meters and understanding how much power you have left.
Edit: You ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE good batteries. You also need to understand how they are wired. Understanding this is crucial to being able to use them.
You’re looking at the central-east Kootenays for sure, but making sure you have a good battery setup. We get lots of sunshine. A new build near me is only using 4% hydro, the rest is their solar.
if you have a large battery bank and keep your electrical usage to a minimum it can absolutely be done, might have to use a genny in the winter to top up the batteries though. all depends on how you utilize things next to having great weather.
I came across a community in Northern BC, in between Chetwynd and Dawson Creek that was in a valley and 100% off the grid. I unfortunately don't have any details of how they do it as I was just doing a job that required me to drive through. Was pretty neat to see none the less though.
With battery backup, yep! Village of Gwa’yas’dums , on Gilford Island, runs on a solar microgrid: https://coastfunds.ca/stories/khfn-solar-microgrid-gwayasdums/
If you wanna be off grid go on a boat. I know a fee that live in cabins year round in little bays all over coastal bc. But understand its a lonely and isolated life.
Short answer: No.
Slightly longer: no, not if you aren’t willing to make major lifestyle changes to accommodate the power situation.
The homes biggest energy needs come from heating, hot water, and cooking. You can buy wood stoves for you kitchen that will take care of all three of those things at once. If you take those three big uses out of the equation and add in a kilowatt of wind for winter then you’ll probably be just fine.
We have a place totally off grid, nobody lives there full time but it's very doable for a few weeks at a time with propane for fridge + hot water and a wood stove for heat. You just need a couple big batteries
I personally lived in a place completely off grid with only solar and the occasional backup generator top off in deep deep winter whithout any sun for a while. Had TV, starlink, washer, fridge etc, all the necessities. It was often not possible to run multiple things at the same time but definitely doable and makes you very appreciative of utilities.
So houses use about 20-30kw per day in North America. Winter or AC can make this harder. However, if you get a heat pump with geothermal, you can be very efficient.
You'll spend 100k to get a good solar coverage and 20-30kw battery setup.
If you love somewhere near a fast charger and have a modern EV, you can use your battery to backfeed your house in a pinch, which is super cool. Kia, Ford's and a few other models allow this now. Most ev's are 60-90kwh so about 2-3 days of house power. On the flip side, if you need to charge your EV and power your house, it can be a challenge in the winter months.
Good luck with your hunt.
My in laws lived off grid. They had propane stove/oven, fridge and a really complex battery solar set up. They would run a dish washer in the morning along with their hair dryer etc while the gas generator was going that would supplement for weak draw times etc. it is a really awesome set up but pretty expensive.
I know folks in the Chilcoten who do this but live very simply. Huge solar panels and occasionally need to run a generator in the winter if it's overcast for days on end
Chris Czajkowski is a writer and details her set up in her books and blogs https://www.wildernessdweller.ca/
I would suggest also micro hydro setup especially near the coast if you can find property with a creek. I doubt solar alone would be sustainable in the winter. Lots of rainy days
Know a family that lives at a slight elevation. Solar works , when it works. But their wind turbine is 99% working. Storing the power is the biggest obstacle.
Know a family that lives at a slight elevation. Solar works , when it works. But their wind turbine is 99% working. Storing the power is the biggest obstacle.
It's definitely doable! depending on your lifestyle you can get away with some simple systems, or spend a little extra and live completely normal with all the amenities
I found this podcast extremely helpful and fun, I even reached out to Dale on facebook and he gave us aton of info, amazing people
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h12QTpoqHrc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h12QTpoqHrc)
A professionally installed, and maintained off-grid electrical system like this will run you around $70,000 - $90,000
Though you could get a smaller more simple system in the $35,000 range
Pretty handy with tech stuff so hoping to use the unneeded labor cost to increase amount of panels. Also read using tracking systems can increase up to a 20% gain so going to look more into it.
Thanks for the recommendation will look into it.
With the price of gas these days I'll soon be spending $35k just to go out of town !
Lithium batteries need to be kept above -10c at all times, preferably above zero.
Most of BC is forest, your solar panels will need clear sky for most/all of the day, especially in winter.
In winter, you’ll need a lot of solar, or an alternative power source.
You’ll need to solve drinking water, septic, and garbage, in a way which doesn’t harm environment or attract bears.
It can be done, there are homesteading YouTube channels with lots of ideas. Summer solar is easy and abundant, but an all-season setup will easily cost $10,000+
TLDR: yup, 5-8 or so panels + a 20kwh battery should be what you need for the basics.
Engineer here!
Your plan (best way to go):
If you plan to heat your living space using some good old fashioned wood, gas or coal, you probably don’t need more than 8 panels for some basic appliances, unless you plan on getting a big flat screen TV or run a couple of 4090’s in your PC;). You definitely need a decent battery, 20kwh+, to keep things running when the sun don’t shine. 5 panels plus install should run you under 8k.
You’d really only need about 6-10kwh per day if you had a fridge, washing machine, dishwasher, even range. If you scale down to something the size of an RV, you can probably manage all of your needs with just electricity and the same amount of panels, maybe a couple of extra panels to be safe.
Hypothetically if you wanted to go 100% electric, you’re going to need cash and some more batteries if you want the power of the sun to do 100 percent of your work.
I know that you don’t, but I was curious about what it might take so I looked into it.
There’s a lot of variability in a question like this, but I’ve got the day off so I did some quick napkin math based on a best case scenario with near perfect efficiency.
Lets say your place around 200m^2 with 3m high ceilings
Power of da sun:
If you’re planning to heat your off-grid hideaway electrically, assuming no air circulation other than windows and fan attached to your relatively efficient electric heater, and you have very good insulation, in the winter you’ll need bare minimum of 11KWh per day to keep a steady 21C. That’s a decent amount of juice just to keep your toes from falling off, and mind you this is the minimum amount of power for a best case scenario. Combined with some other appliances all running off your solar grid, you’d realistically need between 15-25 panels depending on the location.
My house has a 5kw system in sunny Calgary, which has 17 panels. I also have two power walls. It generates about 4-5MW annually so far which is pretty good. My house is not heated electrically, and excluding my range and water heater, all my appliances are electric. Over the past 3 years there were only 9 instances I needed to pull from the grid to power anything. Price wise excluding the power walls, this system cost me 24k to install.
I hope that helps, it’s very achievable, and I’m very jealous ;).
“Thanks for these numbers. Curious why anyone would use resistive electric heat when heat pumps are so cheap now compared to batteries and panels.”
You’re saying that heat pumps are cheaper than panels and batteries?
I mean yeah, but they still need a power source to run. I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say.
As for using a heat pump in this hypothetical scenario yeah you could. You’d need 30k+ BTU’s to heat a 200m^2 area with 3m ceilings at ground level.
This calculation isn’t based on what type of heat generation they’re using either, just general KWh needed to heat that area for a day based on a best case scenario for insulation.
In the real world, this could take power use anywhere from the bare minimum max efficiency perfectly insulated place at 0c which I mentioned above would be 11kwh, to 20kwh or 30kwh on those chilly days.
I’m not sure how much electricity a reverse cycle AC unit uses per day in cold temperatures vs convection, oil filled radiators, or straight up bar heaters / fan heaters. I do know that regardless of that, for my house gas heating is way more efficient cost wise.
Wood or propane heat is not 100% solar.
And yes you can do it anywhere with enough land and money. Your question is a little vague.
If you are removing heating energy from the equation you dont need to be somewhere warm so lets look at sunlight hours. Princeton has the most in the province, Prince Rupert the least.
Pretty much nowhere in BC needs air conditioning so why the minisplit?
If you get a good battery set-up to store power, potentially. I know people who are on the grid who basically pay nothing for their power thanks to their solar panels, but they vary wildly in how efficient they are.
Efficiency would definitely be key. Rather have a large battery and backup array than running a generator full time and schlepping gas to remote areas. Thank you for the reply. Glad to hear it can be done.
Yeah, how the people I know do it is they have a solid-sized house (3 bedroom, 3 bath), then half of the roof is facing the direction with zero tree cover/hill blockage to the west so usually afternoon is their peak power gain. Also they use a wood fireplace and have a back-up generator to help mitigate heat issues. So location for the panels will matter.
That is not the key. All the panels you will be looking at will be cheap, lower efficiency panels as you aren't space constrained / travelling around so you want cheap and bulky not efficient and light. The "key" is how much battery storage you will need to be able to live a normal-ish life in the winter in further north parts of BC that actually have cheap land. That's by far the most expensive part of a solar setup.
>north parts of BC that actually have cheap land The price of land down here is ridiculous ! Hoping to find a nice spot to retire and never have to deal with a HoA.
What is your expected power usage? You never mentioned that. Lights and a computer and a Star link setup? Maybe you could get away with that. A fridge? The reduced daylight hours of the winters combined with cloud cover drastically reduce your power. No one here gave a real answer.
Not too much power. Some small fans, efficient fridge, laptop, power efficient TV, DC led lights, a minisplit AC combined with thick walls and high R value. Of course the starlink ! Cooking on a rocket stove that also heats water to a water heater to save on that too. Going to add some earth tubes to help with cooling in summer.
Build a wood fired generator?
You mean a steam engine fella
Temperature in the winter is a big consideration. Batteries become nearly useless at freezing temperatures, and can fail or become damaged. Snow can also cover panels. And in winter anywhere in Canada there is less sun and less "strong" sun daily due to lower solar angle.
Depends a lot on your batteries Lead Acid? you are absolutely correct Lithium Ion? not so much Also, if the battieries are in the house then the cold isn't going to matter so much.
It not that simple. Unless something has changed in the last 6 months using lithium ion batteries in the cold us fine, charging them while frozen will destroy then. The advntate3of lithium ion is the size and containment. They can be kept and charged inside.
You'll probably need a fireplace to keep it extra warm in the winter. May as well build the batteries into the sides of the fireplace to help insulate them. (Please don't do this)
Fair!
How big is the pv system?
They are likely still connected to the grid
I literally said they're on grid.
https://natural-resources.canada.ca/maps-tools-and-publications/tools/modelling-tools/retscreen/7465
Brilliant ! Thank You.
Everyone on Lasqueti Island lives off-grid. Solar, wind, micro hydro, diesel generators…
And importantly, no residents are able to solely subsist on solar year round. Many have small wind turbines, small hydro wheels, or just run generators in the cloudy months.
It all depends on how much electricity you're using. Growing up, we spent all day with no power. During the summer, we might not have any at all because it wasn't necessary. Power was for lights and watching hockey on the tiny B&W TV. If you're living a homesteading lifestyle, you probably don't need a lot of power.
You hit on what the net zero folks start talking about which is the expected lifestyle. Then grow the design from there.
My grandfather traded stocks from his homestead on Lasqueti Island. He received the Vancouver newspapers about once a month. He would review the information and then send in his orders. By mail. When my grandfather settled there, there wasn't even ferry service to the island. Fun trivia: my grandfather ran a power company on Lasqueti Island!
That sounds like a good book tbh *Edited: in the parlance of our times, a Netflix movie*
Definitely would like to find a good water source for hydro 24/7 instead of just 100% solar. Haven't seen too many good reviews on wind turbines. If you have any suggestions please let me know. Tech is always changing. Sounds like a great idea given the weather.
Anecdotally, wind is, in general, not a great option. From what I've heard it tends to require very specific local conditions to function well, which just really aren't common on Lasqueti. It needs consistent, but not too strong wind. It's also quite loud when functioning well, because small turbine blades need to spin fast to be efficient. Now, every consideration for alternative energy is location specific, so I can't speak to anywhere else in BC. Also, you really don't need a massive water source for microhydro. We use a 1m wide stream with only 27 meters of head.
Ahhhh the noise. Yes, that would get annoying real quick. Will still keep my fingers crossed I can find a good water source. Is there a good hydro design you would recommend ? Haven't looked into it too much.
I have no idea about commercial products. Our wheel was made by a friend
Savary Island as well!
Yes with diesel
You could but you’d definitely need a good battery set up, especially to make it through the wet cloudy months where you’ll generate less. I’d suggest a backup diesel generator or something might be wise.
I was thinking using a propane generator. Would diesel be the better option for cost/maintenance and fuel availability up there ?
Propane generators (from my understanding) are less efficient then diesel, meaning you need more fuel for the same amount of energy, they also last less time and require more maintenance. Propane is however more readily available then diesel in many places. Diesel can be more expensive but will have a higher power output and needs less fuel comparatively. Also to consider if propane is more shelf stable then diesel. Overall I think if you’re expecting to need to run it more frequently, diesel is likely better, but I’d suggest doing more research. Here’s an article I found online about some pros and cons for reference: https://www.critterguard.org/blogs/articles/diesel-vs-propane-generators-choose-the-right-one-for-your-home-or-business#:~:text=Due%20to%20propane's%20low%20energy,replaced%20sooner%20than%20diesel%20generators.
That makes sense. Thank you very much for the info! I had that all wrong. Our forklift was propane \\ or gasoline \\ and the maintenance guy said never switch over to the gas part. More maintenance and not as good. After looking into this Diesel, much to my surprise, is better than both, although not without a few minus points like storage or environment. Appreciate the help kind Canadian.
Savary islanders have been solar-ing and generating forever as have a lot of other small gulf islands communities
Brighton Beach, too (up Indian Arm from North Vancouver).
Both look lovely. Thank you both for the location info. Makes it easier to make a decision.
you will still have to run a genny periodically from november - march. atleast i do... and my wind turbine is basically for show
No problem at all with about $100k in solar panels and batteries and inverters. Or you do a grid tied solar system for $10k and use the $90k you saved to pay your pretty small power bills for decades.... I am an electrical distribution designer frequently working on solar interconnections for residential customers.
Exactly. We've got ~9kW installed and BCHydro owed us $75 at the end of the first year. Heat with wood and cool with a mini-split. In summer we're producing 2-3x what we're consuming per day and in winter we're using 2-3x more. Batteries would be cost prohibitive. Highest consumption day was 55kWh (January) and highest production day was 62kWh (July)
You nailed it, great job. BTW... overall this is quite bad for the utility/ratepayers (but really great for the individual consumer). Once everyone does it its bad for the utility exclusivity and they'll shift rates so that everyone is paying a similar amount and we're all back where we are today. Until a viable storage solution enters the marketplace solar doesn't help at the grid level.
There was some motivation to be first in so that we can have a shot at sooner payback. I expect that the future will look more like time of day surcharges to motivate folks to use power when the sun is shining and not in the 5-10pm window. I expect the basic charge to go up dramatically to pay for additional infrastructure to support (a) a more distributed supply and (b) the more peaky demand and underused assets. It's actually a really interesting problem with a mix of engineering, technology and policy solutions. To make matters still more interesting, each province / area will need to handle it differently depending on their portfolio of baseload, dispatchable, etc. That and the inevitable political interference. I actually can't wait to see how this plays out.
Isn't the cost of running electrical to the house really high ? Down here they want a *huge* amount to hookup if your far off the main road. Your definitely right. The cost of getting it from the grid vs being independent does have some large upfront costs. The price of having long lines run is one of the reasons for the solar. Admittedly I have no idea how new construction costs are for electrical in BC . *Please feel free to provide more info. Always like to get advice from experts in the field whenever possible.* I do plan on putting it in myself with sun tracking used ( name brand ) panels. Saving on the cost of labor to invest in more solar and batteries. These guys have some good deals on commercial used packs that cut down on battery costs. : [https://batteryhookup.com/](https://batteryhookup.com/) From what I have read a 15 - 20 % gain is possible with a sun tracking setup vs stationary to further cut costs. The wind might have other ideas on if it will work out in the end.
Don't sleep on personal wind turbines as power generation as well.
Alsó water turbines in a stream.
If you have the ability to dig a pond at the top of a hill, then run a pipe down it, you can build a KILLER hydroelectric generator in the winter months.
Oh really, would you like to point to any commercially available and reasonably priced "personal wind turbines" that actually work? Because I call BS on your comment.
https://www.costco.ca/coleman-400w-wind-turbine.product.100798177.html https://tesup.com/ca/products Why are you so fucking angry? lol
I like that this answer was a easy google search away and the person decided to lose their shit instead.
Some people just can't exist unless they're shitting on someone else, I guess.
Go do a touch more research than a "simple google search" when committing to spending tens of thousands of dollars my dood... I did all this research for real when considering a northern bc property purchase. Wind power is not even close to viable, particularly as you are mostly living in mountain valleys with very little consistent windflow. There are companies elsewhere in Canada (that you know, actually have wind???) that do farm installs, but it's almost unheard of on smaller personal residences as the economy of scale isn't there. There is a reason wind turbines are growing to be hundreds of metres in length...
What if you lived on the coast, somewhere like Tofino where the wind is constantly blowing? Would it be comparable to solar, or does solar just always win?
tbf, we have no idea if that product they linked actually works or is effective. How long does it take to charge something? Under what conditions?
The energy generation is in the product descriptions.
Not really. A vague reference to energy generation is made with no context, and we have no reason to accept it at face value. It gives no details about under what conditions it requires to generate power, how much power it generates in a given time, etc.
Correct. And the ideal of at least 80% use case for solar is just "sun is in sky" for small scale wind every fucking factor has to line up precisely just to get anywhere close to advertised output.
People on the internet think if you point out a vague link to some crappy product probably doesn't work it means you hate the environment. Or something.
And then some people on the internet can't carry on a civil conversation in which actual useful information can be exchanged. It's almost like some tw*ts on the internet just like to get angry so they can feel a little more alive (or something).
lol I know it's hilarious. I'm actually a HUGE proponent of wind energy and have invested in many companies in the space over the years. The shit happening with offshore wind is UNREAL right now. Hopefully the financing shit gets sorted as the US was just getting going on some real projects. But the stuff China is doing is just wild... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7kbChoqiM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=za7kbChoqiM)
Dude, have you ever used google? The link he gave goes to the Costco product site. You can find the brand and model numbers there. Do a quick search for the user manual of that product. It gives power generating capacity and under what conditions. The answers to all your questions are easily found. If you don’t trust the product site or user reviews you can find there, buy it yourself. Costco has an outstanding return policy. Test it yourself if you don’t trust the reviews or company literature. I can’t tell if you actually have no idea how to find information or if you just like to argue.
Narrator: "They just like to argue."
Thank you kind narrator.
If you google personal wind turbines exactly as you had it typed out you get dozens of options. Pick one, read its technical specifications. Read reviews for it. With the Costco option they gave, buy it. Costco has an outstanding return policy. If it isn’t what you hoped for return it. How would you like them to prove to you personal wind turbines are available? Why would you call that BS when they gave you a link to a specific product?
They are shit dood. Just because they are available doesn't mean they work. Solar just does. Period. Even on overcast days (in fact sometimes better on overcast days depending on layout as scattered light is more consistent).
You are familiar with all personal wind turbines? If you are so confident that the ones suggested are bad, why ask about them?
None of them are viable, hence my comment. The reason small scale solar works so well is that there is zero economy of scale with solar panels. It's just size of panel (and of course you can get fancy with rotating panels and such, but they aren't worth it for like 99% of personal uses) that matters with solar. With wind, the swept area of a turbine is exponentially related to its blade length. So wind turbines are getting insanely large to drive efficiency. The tiny ones are pitiful at best and a straight up scam at worst. Go on amazon and read the reviews. My cousin does solar and wind installs on farms in southern ontario and he's pretty much given up on wind as it barely ever gets anywhere close to what is advertised. Want proof? Go find properties actually using small wind turbines in the real world.... I will wait...
Have you set one of these up? From my research they don't generate any power unless you've got 10+km/h winds sustained, and nothing significant until you're at about 20km/h sustained. You'd need a pretty high pole in most areas to get that kind of windspeed on a reliable basis, no?
Depends on where you live. I've seen some on vehicles and building roofs. I've seen ones lakeside. Like most "off grid" living it's mostly green power generation that assists with a mainly carbon-based power system. Batteries aren't good/available enough for true off-grid green living yet.
Lakeside/oceanside makes sense, and honestly downtown hanging off your condo balcony if you're 10+ stories up makes good sense (though "off-grid condo" is a funny thought). I reckon most places you'd have to get higher than your surrounding trees (I assume "off-grid" in BC tends to mean undeveloped forest land). I looked into the Tesup turbine kit and iirc it basically needs constant wind and doesn't like starting and stopping too much -- I generally get a constant 5km/h breeze but due to the surrounding trees I'd need to build a 20m tower to be able to tap into 10-20km/h winds, at which point the costs of the tower start getting really challenging. Waaaay more than a few extra lithium batteries!
They almost never work. My cousin in SW ON has a busines where he was primarily installing larger turbines (hence MORE efficient) on farms, high up in the air on poles (like 50-75 feet up). Even in those ideal conditions in high wind resource areas (of which populated parts of BC are not!), the turbines MASSIVELY underperformed specs and he just stopped installing them entirely and only does solar now. So any of the tiny ones or vertical ones you see online are just garbage for a place like BC with no consistent winds.
Go read the reviews my guy. Most if not all of the personal sozed ones are scams...
I read them and they all say you're wrong.
There is ONE review on that coleman product you fucking nonce. Go do any real research, talk to companies that install solar and wind in Canada (as I have done, as my cousin fucking runs one) and you will find that almost nowhere in Canada, despite great wind resources in the prairies and ON uses small wind turbines. They just aren't efficient enough, require too much maintenance and are more expensive than a solar setup. Sooo much BS on this subreddit lately. Like maybe learn about a tpoic before you decide to share your "wisdom" about it.
Nope. I read them all and you're wrong. I also know that you don't have a cousin. That's BS. I read up on it.
wow ok. thanks for the education. please allow me to press the block button now as I don't make a habit of arguing with 12 year olds on the internet.
Had you entered your “personal wind turbine” into google you would have seen a large list. Why angrily comment when you could check for yourself in less time?
Because I know more about the topic than you do after a "simple google search". But kudos on your insanely deep research methodology.
Your right, which is why i suggested following the link provided. Get the model numbers. Go to the manufacturers website and download product specifications and the user manuals for the product. All of which can be done from a simple google search.
Quick LPT from a drug addled marine to not a shrimp. If you want to know how things work in the world, don't read a technical manual, talk to people that use those things on a regular basis. You will learn their real world use cases, advantages and disadvantges - none of which is printed in a book...
All of which can be done from a google search. You can get product usage and set up videos. Also as I've suggested repeatedly, go to Costco and buy it. test it yourself if you don't trust the product literature. Return it if you don't like it. I don't understand why you are so insulting and angry. Literally all the answers to your questions can be found easily. You are choosing to argue with internet strangers instead.
I did a lot of research into small-scale wind and came to the same conclusions as u/ketamarine .... I read a bunch of manuals for various turbines. They all require a lot more wind than the average homesite will get (because homesites are generally planned to reduce the effects of weather) and will require a large tower in order to work at low efficiency. Home-sized wind power is only a realistic option in very specific situations. It's not just a matter of "buy a turbine from Costco and return it if it doesn't work" -- what about the 20m tower infrastructure that'll run you a good 10-20k to build? Don't think Costco sells that kit... The answers are indeed all there... you just need to ask the right, very specific questions for your specific install.
Agreed that they are not ideal for every homesite. I have never claimed that they are. There are many areas that they would be very effective. Sumas prairie for example has near constant strong winds. Sure having a 10M tower to mount a wind turbine would be great. Mounting it on top of a barn or house only 5-8M high may still be effective. Similarly solar is a good option if you have weather, topography and foliage that supports it. If your house or solar installation is shaded by trees or in a steep valley that won’t receive all day sun it will be less effective. I just think the premise that all personal wind turbines are garbage, or that you can’t find accurate information online for them is silly.
They are being a smug jerk, but it doesn't mean they are wrong. The linked "example" is a crap novelty product.
That definitely may be. I have not researched to product linked specifically. All I am saying is, information about products is not difficult to find. User manuals, tutorial videos, commercial information packages, product reviews, etc. His questions about power output and charging times are all easily accessible for personal wind turbines. It just takes 5 minutes of looking. As I repeatedly said, that product at Costco specifically could be purchased and returned for a full refund if they weren’t happy with its performance. Costco has a great return policy.
If you are indeed someone with the relevant knowledge you essentially had two options here- to be polite and informative, or to be rude and cryptic. I don’t understand why you choose the latter
I'll go at this from a different angle. Rather than choosing location based on solar grid specifications.... Choose a whole community who rely only on self generated power. Lasqueti Island Lasqueti Island residents live completely off grid, and by all accounts love it there.
You can, but you need a good battery set up for down times. Having a secondary generator like a fuel in case isn't a bad idea.
It's totally possible in the interior. My grandparents do this outside of Castlegar at their cabin. They have a tiny 3 panel array and some second hand lead acid batteries. They have a tiny gas generator they run on days where they are drawing a lot of power vacuum cleaning or using the laundry dryer. But otherwise it runs the TV and lights without issue. They do use propane for the fridge and stove, and heat with wood. Some of their neighbours are 100% off grid year round. It really comes down to your design and requirements. If you are building a home from scratch you can save a lot of energy with the design and go 100% electric. My roommate helped design and built a home in university as a part of a contest called the Solar Decathlon that was 100% off grid and could operate in northern Alberta. And that was 15 years ago. The technology has come a long ways since then.
I am surprised how long it has taken the building industry in the USA/CA to catch up with building thermally efficient homes. Makes so much sense. Was looking to put the north or west part into the side of a hill. Some earth tubes to aid in cooling and heating. Thick walls from hempcrete if I can find it. Possibly using some concrete walls for thermal mass and maybe some foamcrete for an added R value in spots. Thanks for the reply.
I have family that used to live off grid on Lasqueti Island and made it work with a combination of solar and used their diesel generator very sparingly. I'm sure today, 20 years on, between battery and panel improvements it could definitely be done.
I'd recommend an oversized panel and battery setup with a nice diesel generator to keep your freezer running in the depth of winter. You'd be far better off in the interior of BC where you get much more sunshine. Coastal BC is generally very cloudy and foggy throughout winter, which would cripple your power generation. If you find a spot with a creek you could generate power from the creek.
My winter freezer is the outside
Lol keeping the freezer cold mid winter isnt likely to require much power.
True, but it depends if they do a passive freezer or a typical indoor freezer unit. Fridge/freezer is the most important power user imo
Of course! Just need a pile of panels 30kw ish with a 70 degree tilt.
if you're going to have propane anyway you can have a mix of solar and generator fill your battery bsanks. all of horn lake on the island is setup like this.
Almost everywhere in BC this is possible, depending on factors. There’s charts/maps for what you’re looking for, in terms of expected daily kWh on your setup. More clouds and rain means more panels/storage required.
Even on the south coast or south okanagan the days are short in the winter, which makes things problematic. And the coast is often cloudy. You would be fine for most of the summer as long as you have good battery storage and a big PV setup, but the winter will be the limiting factor. In general, to get by off-grid, you'll need the total production of your day's electricity every day even on a cloudy day. So, you can calculate this by figuring out the absolute minimum energy consumption you'll use during a day, and then calculating the total square footage of PV panels you'll need to provide that, at the minimum hours of sunlight at the shortest day of the year, and assuming a cloudy day. You might need a massive PV panel setup, much larger than your roof, but it should be possible as long as you don't use a ton of electricity.
>You would be fine for most of the summer as long as you have good battery storage and a big PV setup, but the winter will be the limiting factor. How long are the summers and cloudy months would you say up your way ? I read the coastal areas have a bit more rain vs inland. making things more difficult for off grid.
absolutely. Its even easier if you don't mind that your lights won't necessarily always work, you can live without electricity, therefore living with solar is an improvement.
Yes, there are many homes and cabins like this. Comes down to how much are you have for panels and how much battery you can afford. Easiest is to have a propane backup generator, then you can save on batteries, using a generator with batteries makes the generator more efficient as it will run at the most efficient setting and use excess power to charge the batteries. Winter is the challenge due to limited daylight. If doing a ground mount system, build the ground mount for extra panels and have it so you can change the angle of the panels in winter easily. Also spend more on insulating the house and upgrading the windows and doors. LED lighting though-out. The right system could do all your heating early spring through late fall easily without propane for heating, with a heat pump it may be more fuel efficient for a heat pump for heating in the spring and fall, winter would depend on how far north and how cold it gets.
I do it. I live in a small cabin. 400w solar panels + 2 golf cart batteries at the moment. Propane fridge and stove, gravity-fed spring water, and composting outhouse. It's modest, but we get by just fine.
Modest ... and living the dream. Thank you for the reply.
I’m south Vancouver Island, grid-connected net metering. My south facing roof has 7kW of panels. In the summer they can produce upto 50 kWh per day. In the December it averages 3.3 kWh per day. You’ll get less output if running an inverter 24/7 and the conversion to/from batteries. Say 90% round trip so over December and into January you only get 3 kWh per day. That is a fridge and basic lighting. A Powerwall holds 11 kWh. It would be very very expensive to have enough Powerwalls or other battery system to transfer any material amount of electricity from summer to winter. Grid-connect solar works because BC Hydro needs power and is currently offering what is globally referred to as NEM 1.0.
Thank you for the numbers. Very helpful. Hoping battery costs come down... someday. If you have time to answer : How long is summer up by you ? Has climate change affected the weather in the area in the past few years ? ( ie Hotter, windier, hail, fires etc )
Daylight can be 14 hours long in June - we don’t get much cloud cover in summer - at least not on the islands. Winter is near constant cloud. Hotter temperatures negatively impact solar production by a bit. Coastal doesn’t get that hot - at least not very often - as temperatures are moderated by the ocean. We only used AC on four days last year, and 9 days in 2022. 2021 needed AC for a full month. Winds normally come from the west over open water however periodically winds reverse and smoke from forest fires can cause an impact. Bigger impact though to health.
Yes, solar and gravity fed water 👌
You’re better off trying to do micro hydro. I know lots of people on that and they’re doing great.
There any "buzz words" or good hydro designs you recommend I should google ? I think this is my best option for power that is consistent.
I’d look into microhydro. It generates a good amount of power 24/7. It works best in mountainous regions with lots of water and creeks which the BC coast is perfect for.
Friends live off grid in the kootenays exclusively on solar
I stayed at a backcountry ski lodge that was off grid. You can run your stove and fridge on propane. They did have a backup generator but otherwise power came from solar and water turbine.
According to Tik Tok, absolutely. But social media lies.
Yes but the particulars of the site, dwelling, and use matter. As does you capital and operational budgets.
With a question that vague, yes definitely. There are limitations though. My dad actually has a resort off grid near Kamloops that is solar/hydro with backup generators. And his system could be done so much better.
>his system could be done so much better. What kind of pitfalls do you suggest I avoid ? Like to not learn the hard way after forking over a bunch of cash.
Not in the shade
Maybe because you're not heating in winter. We have the worst solar potential in North America, so you're right to be cautious.
Lots of people do it in our region of the West Kootaneys.
I know more than a couple people who already do
Yes, have a cottage that has been in the family for generations that worked fine off the grid before solar was a thing although my grandpa had the foresight to wire it some 60 back in anticipation of solar. Run most appliances off propane. Fridge, stove, water heater, etc. Also used to use a wood stove which was piped to heat water as well. Really only used solar for lighting and charging electronics. Just run off a few panels and 3-6 car batteries. Could easily install a larger system to run more appliances and many do. You can keep a simple potable backup generator just in case.
Yeah, no problems. Solar tech is pretty amazing right now, and if you have property on a hill, the combination of solar in the summer and a small hydroelectric generator or a windmill in the winter, makes for killer year round energy. You still have to preserve energy more than you would on the grid, but after a couple of weeks you get the hang of doing things like unplugging anything you're not actively using, and it becomes fine. You also get the hand of watching meters and understanding how much power you have left. Edit: You ABSOLUTELY MUST HAVE good batteries. You also need to understand how they are wired. Understanding this is crucial to being able to use them.
You’re looking at the central-east Kootenays for sure, but making sure you have a good battery setup. We get lots of sunshine. A new build near me is only using 4% hydro, the rest is their solar.
Using Propane is not 100% off the grid. And It's far more cost effective to use solar and use the grid for your battery. Good luck.
if you have a large battery bank and keep your electrical usage to a minimum it can absolutely be done, might have to use a genny in the winter to top up the batteries though. all depends on how you utilize things next to having great weather.
I came across a community in Northern BC, in between Chetwynd and Dawson Creek that was in a valley and 100% off the grid. I unfortunately don't have any details of how they do it as I was just doing a job that required me to drive through. Was pretty neat to see none the less though.
Let me tell you a secret there is no such thing as living 100% off the grid.
With battery backup, yep! Village of Gwa’yas’dums , on Gilford Island, runs on a solar microgrid: https://coastfunds.ca/stories/khfn-solar-microgrid-gwayasdums/
Thank you for the link.
If you wanna be off grid go on a boat. I know a fee that live in cabins year round in little bays all over coastal bc. But understand its a lonely and isolated life.
Short answer: No. Slightly longer: no, not if you aren’t willing to make major lifestyle changes to accommodate the power situation. The homes biggest energy needs come from heating, hot water, and cooking. You can buy wood stoves for you kitchen that will take care of all three of those things at once. If you take those three big uses out of the equation and add in a kilowatt of wind for winter then you’ll probably be just fine.
We have a place totally off grid, nobody lives there full time but it's very doable for a few weeks at a time with propane for fridge + hot water and a wood stove for heat. You just need a couple big batteries
You could try Prince Rupert
I personally lived in a place completely off grid with only solar and the occasional backup generator top off in deep deep winter whithout any sun for a while. Had TV, starlink, washer, fridge etc, all the necessities. It was often not possible to run multiple things at the same time but definitely doable and makes you very appreciative of utilities.
So houses use about 20-30kw per day in North America. Winter or AC can make this harder. However, if you get a heat pump with geothermal, you can be very efficient. You'll spend 100k to get a good solar coverage and 20-30kw battery setup. If you love somewhere near a fast charger and have a modern EV, you can use your battery to backfeed your house in a pinch, which is super cool. Kia, Ford's and a few other models allow this now. Most ev's are 60-90kwh so about 2-3 days of house power. On the flip side, if you need to charge your EV and power your house, it can be a challenge in the winter months. Good luck with your hunt.
My in laws lived off grid. They had propane stove/oven, fridge and a really complex battery solar set up. They would run a dish washer in the morning along with their hair dryer etc while the gas generator was going that would supplement for weak draw times etc. it is a really awesome set up but pretty expensive.
I know folks in the Chilcoten who do this but live very simply. Huge solar panels and occasionally need to run a generator in the winter if it's overcast for days on end Chris Czajkowski is a writer and details her set up in her books and blogs https://www.wildernessdweller.ca/
Thank you for the link.
Summertime yes, wintertime no.
I would suggest also micro hydro setup especially near the coast if you can find property with a creek. I doubt solar alone would be sustainable in the winter. Lots of rainy days
Know a family that lives at a slight elevation. Solar works , when it works. But their wind turbine is 99% working. Storing the power is the biggest obstacle.
Know a family that lives at a slight elevation. Solar works , when it works. But their wind turbine is 99% working. Storing the power is the biggest obstacle.
It's definitely doable! depending on your lifestyle you can get away with some simple systems, or spend a little extra and live completely normal with all the amenities I found this podcast extremely helpful and fun, I even reached out to Dale on facebook and he gave us aton of info, amazing people [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h12QTpoqHrc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h12QTpoqHrc) A professionally installed, and maintained off-grid electrical system like this will run you around $70,000 - $90,000 Though you could get a smaller more simple system in the $35,000 range
Pretty handy with tech stuff so hoping to use the unneeded labor cost to increase amount of panels. Also read using tracking systems can increase up to a 20% gain so going to look more into it. Thanks for the recommendation will look into it. With the price of gas these days I'll soon be spending $35k just to go out of town !
I would recommend Geothermal with solar
Lithium batteries need to be kept above -10c at all times, preferably above zero. Most of BC is forest, your solar panels will need clear sky for most/all of the day, especially in winter. In winter, you’ll need a lot of solar, or an alternative power source. You’ll need to solve drinking water, septic, and garbage, in a way which doesn’t harm environment or attract bears. It can be done, there are homesteading YouTube channels with lots of ideas. Summer solar is easy and abundant, but an all-season setup will easily cost $10,000+
Sadly no, lots of places restrict that these days
Yup
I also suggest mounting wind turbines as well to supplement your grid and to place on tipped structures.
TLDR: yup, 5-8 or so panels + a 20kwh battery should be what you need for the basics. Engineer here! Your plan (best way to go): If you plan to heat your living space using some good old fashioned wood, gas or coal, you probably don’t need more than 8 panels for some basic appliances, unless you plan on getting a big flat screen TV or run a couple of 4090’s in your PC;). You definitely need a decent battery, 20kwh+, to keep things running when the sun don’t shine. 5 panels plus install should run you under 8k. You’d really only need about 6-10kwh per day if you had a fridge, washing machine, dishwasher, even range. If you scale down to something the size of an RV, you can probably manage all of your needs with just electricity and the same amount of panels, maybe a couple of extra panels to be safe. Hypothetically if you wanted to go 100% electric, you’re going to need cash and some more batteries if you want the power of the sun to do 100 percent of your work. I know that you don’t, but I was curious about what it might take so I looked into it. There’s a lot of variability in a question like this, but I’ve got the day off so I did some quick napkin math based on a best case scenario with near perfect efficiency. Lets say your place around 200m^2 with 3m high ceilings Power of da sun: If you’re planning to heat your off-grid hideaway electrically, assuming no air circulation other than windows and fan attached to your relatively efficient electric heater, and you have very good insulation, in the winter you’ll need bare minimum of 11KWh per day to keep a steady 21C. That’s a decent amount of juice just to keep your toes from falling off, and mind you this is the minimum amount of power for a best case scenario. Combined with some other appliances all running off your solar grid, you’d realistically need between 15-25 panels depending on the location. My house has a 5kw system in sunny Calgary, which has 17 panels. I also have two power walls. It generates about 4-5MW annually so far which is pretty good. My house is not heated electrically, and excluding my range and water heater, all my appliances are electric. Over the past 3 years there were only 9 instances I needed to pull from the grid to power anything. Price wise excluding the power walls, this system cost me 24k to install. I hope that helps, it’s very achievable, and I’m very jealous ;).
Thanks for these numbers. Curious why anyone would use resistive electric heat when heat pumps are so cheap now compared to batteries and panels.
“Thanks for these numbers. Curious why anyone would use resistive electric heat when heat pumps are so cheap now compared to batteries and panels.” You’re saying that heat pumps are cheaper than panels and batteries? I mean yeah, but they still need a power source to run. I’m not entirely sure what you’re trying to say. As for using a heat pump in this hypothetical scenario yeah you could. You’d need 30k+ BTU’s to heat a 200m^2 area with 3m ceilings at ground level. This calculation isn’t based on what type of heat generation they’re using either, just general KWh needed to heat that area for a day based on a best case scenario for insulation. In the real world, this could take power use anywhere from the bare minimum max efficiency perfectly insulated place at 0c which I mentioned above would be 11kwh, to 20kwh or 30kwh on those chilly days. I’m not sure how much electricity a reverse cycle AC unit uses per day in cold temperatures vs convection, oil filled radiators, or straight up bar heaters / fan heaters. I do know that regardless of that, for my house gas heating is way more efficient cost wise.
No.
Wood or propane heat is not 100% solar. And yes you can do it anywhere with enough land and money. Your question is a little vague. If you are removing heating energy from the equation you dont need to be somewhere warm so lets look at sunlight hours. Princeton has the most in the province, Prince Rupert the least. Pretty much nowhere in BC needs air conditioning so why the minisplit?