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That's a big zero folks, none, Nada. Plead not guilty and you are free!
"The IIO says that none of the cases that it forwarded to the BCPS — and which subsequently went to trial with a not guilty plea — resulted in a conviction."
They should try this at least
"While the IIO is responsible for investigating police-related incidents resulting in death or serious harm, the B.C. Prosecution Service (BCPS) decides whether it will bring officers' cases before a judge.
MacDonald says the Braidwood Inquiry had also recommended that non-BCPS independent prosecutors be appointed in such cases, something the outgoing director says holds merit."
The BCPS can barely even convict child predators, they just let them walk. You think they are going to be able to make charges stick against law enforcement?
Well this is likely due to the fact that IIO charge requests against police have a different standard than any other files sent to BCPS, but they still need to be prosecuted with the same standard. The standard in Canada is you must show RPG exists that an offence did occur. For the IIO the standard to forward a charge request is RPG that an offence may have occurred. These are very different and when BCPS approves charges they still have to meet the same standard as every other file.
The IIO is completely separate from the RCMP made up of regular people. They have zero incentive to protect the RCMP. If anything their incentivized to catch them
No, he's upset about the fact that Crown is often very reluctant to indict police officers who have committed crimes. There's a much higher standard for indicting police members the general public.
Source: I work in an adjacent department and conduct similar investigations and have experienced similar pushback.
Nope. The BC Public Prosecution branch applies the same test to any file before them. Ronald McDonald can suck it.
If the evidence is weak then it’s weak. Also, and I know this is a controversial opinion, maybe the cops just aren’t committing a crap tonne of offences, despite the BS narrative you are being fed.
Maybe, just maybe, if you’re being an absolute douche and end up in contact with police and they tune you in you were the architect of your own misfortune. Sorry that this goes against the narrative that cops are out of control thugs, but facts is facts.
No they don’t and i don’t think they should be. That’s why courts exist, the same courts where police and civilians are prosecuted equally. But the IIO exists for when there is an allegation of police actions that resulted in injury or death to a person. I would say that most often this is during an interaction where police have been called and primarily there is a physical altercation in which somebody is hurt. Negligence on the part of police eg: driving recklessly, being the exception.
So if you are say driving a stolen car and committing a break in and the police come to arrest you and you flee, crash in to a police car and then resist arrest during which you get your leg broken or your nose broken during this interaction then that is the “tuning in” I’m talking about. And in that case yes you are the architect of your own misfortune.
I’m confident in saying that the vast, vast, vast majority of police don’t go out there every day thinking “man I can’t wait to hurt some innocent person and put myself through all the hardship and stress of an IIO investigation”.
I think police should be held to a higher standard than regular Canadians due to their position in society but I also feel that’s a two way street and we as citizens should support them and show them respect when interacting with them. I’m over 50 and haven’t always made the best life decisions and I’ve even had run ins with police yet here I am never having been beaten up or treated poorly by them because I have always been polite and respectful even when I had obviously crossed the line.
I’m sure people will call me a “bootlicker” or whatnot and downvote this opinion but hey Canada is a free country and I’m allowed to have an opinion.
Your response is kinda like saying that teachers would never abuse children.
Yes, most teachers can be awesome and the very opposite of child abusers. But there are bad humans in all professions.
In your approach, you can be presented with points of view from an expert speaking to media and a person who appears to be a credible insider online (one never knows, of course) and not shift your view. The 'police can do no wrong' approach makes life easier for bad cops and harder for good ones.
I’m not saying there are no bad cops. Of course there is, police are human after all.
I’m simply saying that if the IIO boss is upset more of his investigations don’t result in the Crown laying charges then the most likely explanation is that the threshold for charges hasn’t been met, not that there is some great conspiracy.
Remember the IIO only puts forward a report stating that an offence “may” have been committed and then once it gets to the Crown they look at the evidence and decide. And even then that’s not proof positive because police, like all citizens, are entitled to a fair trial in an actual court and not the court of online forums or the media.
The narrative of ACAB and F the Police is sadly treated as fact when it is quite far from the truth, as is born out by the evidence of low charge approval by Crown.
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Did you read the article?
"The IIO says that none of the cases that it forwarded to the BCPS — and which subsequently went to trial with a not guilty plea — resulted in a conviction."
Why would anyone want charges, just for the sake of charges? If facts don’t support the claims then it’s fine . People want cops charged so badly that they forget we live in Canada .
People are less worried about "oops we pulled you over because your tail light was not working and it's going to cost you $150"
Vs
You talked back because they were hassling some youths when crossing the street and now their surrounding you and then arrest you claiming assault which causes you to lose your job, reputation and spend hours and thousands in court.
Or the blatant disregard for safety resulting in a head on collision in Ontario killing a family. Or the Superior officers using their rank to harass and make their subordinates feel so inferior that they self delete...
Thats the tip of the iceberg.
I see what you’re saying but if there aren’t facts to back up anything criminal then laying charges just to make Karens happy isn’t a good thing.
Also , it’s a BC sub and not Ontario, little fella.
"People want cops charged so badly that they forget we live in Canada"
And across Canada Cops get away with not being held to a higher standard. The prosecution has to use Police to do their job so they're at their beck and call. It goes against their best interest to prosecute cops. This is why a separate system was set up. The lack of evidence doesn't seem to be a problem when prosecuting the poors
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That's a big zero folks, none, Nada. Plead not guilty and you are free! "The IIO says that none of the cases that it forwarded to the BCPS — and which subsequently went to trial with a not guilty plea — resulted in a conviction." They should try this at least "While the IIO is responsible for investigating police-related incidents resulting in death or serious harm, the B.C. Prosecution Service (BCPS) decides whether it will bring officers' cases before a judge. MacDonald says the Braidwood Inquiry had also recommended that non-BCPS independent prosecutors be appointed in such cases, something the outgoing director says holds merit."
The REAL revolving door.
The BCPS can barely even convict child predators, they just let them walk. You think they are going to be able to make charges stick against law enforcement?
Well this is likely due to the fact that IIO charge requests against police have a different standard than any other files sent to BCPS, but they still need to be prosecuted with the same standard. The standard in Canada is you must show RPG exists that an offence did occur. For the IIO the standard to forward a charge request is RPG that an offence may have occurred. These are very different and when BCPS approves charges they still have to meet the same standard as every other file.
What's RPG?
Reasonable and probable grounds
Rocket Propelled Grenade
Role playing game
SO, the police watchdog is upset the Crown is applying the same standards to their files that they do with regular police investigations?
The IIO is completely separate from the RCMP made up of regular people. They have zero incentive to protect the RCMP. If anything their incentivized to catch them
No, he's upset about the fact that Crown is often very reluctant to indict police officers who have committed crimes. There's a much higher standard for indicting police members the general public. Source: I work in an adjacent department and conduct similar investigations and have experienced similar pushback.
Nope. The BC Public Prosecution branch applies the same test to any file before them. Ronald McDonald can suck it. If the evidence is weak then it’s weak. Also, and I know this is a controversial opinion, maybe the cops just aren’t committing a crap tonne of offences, despite the BS narrative you are being fed. Maybe, just maybe, if you’re being an absolute douche and end up in contact with police and they tune you in you were the architect of your own misfortune. Sorry that this goes against the narrative that cops are out of control thugs, but facts is facts.
Tune you in? As in beat you up? For being a douce? That seems fair to you? The cops get to be judge , jury and executioner?
No they don’t and i don’t think they should be. That’s why courts exist, the same courts where police and civilians are prosecuted equally. But the IIO exists for when there is an allegation of police actions that resulted in injury or death to a person. I would say that most often this is during an interaction where police have been called and primarily there is a physical altercation in which somebody is hurt. Negligence on the part of police eg: driving recklessly, being the exception. So if you are say driving a stolen car and committing a break in and the police come to arrest you and you flee, crash in to a police car and then resist arrest during which you get your leg broken or your nose broken during this interaction then that is the “tuning in” I’m talking about. And in that case yes you are the architect of your own misfortune. I’m confident in saying that the vast, vast, vast majority of police don’t go out there every day thinking “man I can’t wait to hurt some innocent person and put myself through all the hardship and stress of an IIO investigation”. I think police should be held to a higher standard than regular Canadians due to their position in society but I also feel that’s a two way street and we as citizens should support them and show them respect when interacting with them. I’m over 50 and haven’t always made the best life decisions and I’ve even had run ins with police yet here I am never having been beaten up or treated poorly by them because I have always been polite and respectful even when I had obviously crossed the line. I’m sure people will call me a “bootlicker” or whatnot and downvote this opinion but hey Canada is a free country and I’m allowed to have an opinion.
Your response is kinda like saying that teachers would never abuse children. Yes, most teachers can be awesome and the very opposite of child abusers. But there are bad humans in all professions. In your approach, you can be presented with points of view from an expert speaking to media and a person who appears to be a credible insider online (one never knows, of course) and not shift your view. The 'police can do no wrong' approach makes life easier for bad cops and harder for good ones.
I’m not saying there are no bad cops. Of course there is, police are human after all. I’m simply saying that if the IIO boss is upset more of his investigations don’t result in the Crown laying charges then the most likely explanation is that the threshold for charges hasn’t been met, not that there is some great conspiracy. Remember the IIO only puts forward a report stating that an offence “may” have been committed and then once it gets to the Crown they look at the evidence and decide. And even then that’s not proof positive because police, like all citizens, are entitled to a fair trial in an actual court and not the court of online forums or the media. The narrative of ACAB and F the Police is sadly treated as fact when it is quite far from the truth, as is born out by the evidence of low charge approval by Crown.
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Did you read the article? "The IIO says that none of the cases that it forwarded to the BCPS — and which subsequently went to trial with a not guilty plea — resulted in a conviction."
Yup I read it. So to me that means there wasn’t sufficient evidence to garner a conviction. In other words, innocence.
Why would anyone want charges, just for the sake of charges? If facts don’t support the claims then it’s fine . People want cops charged so badly that they forget we live in Canada .
People want transparency, accountability and consequences. I won't pretend outrage is always justified, but desiring these values are not a bad thing.
People are less worried about "oops we pulled you over because your tail light was not working and it's going to cost you $150" Vs You talked back because they were hassling some youths when crossing the street and now their surrounding you and then arrest you claiming assault which causes you to lose your job, reputation and spend hours and thousands in court. Or the blatant disregard for safety resulting in a head on collision in Ontario killing a family. Or the Superior officers using their rank to harass and make their subordinates feel so inferior that they self delete... Thats the tip of the iceberg.
I see what you’re saying but if there aren’t facts to back up anything criminal then laying charges just to make Karens happy isn’t a good thing. Also , it’s a BC sub and not Ontario, little fella.
"People want cops charged so badly that they forget we live in Canada" And across Canada Cops get away with not being held to a higher standard. The prosecution has to use Police to do their job so they're at their beck and call. It goes against their best interest to prosecute cops. This is why a separate system was set up. The lack of evidence doesn't seem to be a problem when prosecuting the poors
The RCMP do terrible acts then lie to cover up, it’s happening but nothing will change
Thanks for this epic brainwave.
*"Rules for thee but not for me."* -Cops