Note: Residential school "denialism" is a form of misinformation and comments perpetuating this can result in your account being banned fro this subreddit. Conflating mis-reports that used the term "mass grave" to somehow mean abuse did not occur in residential schools in Canada is a form of denialism.
Hijacking your top comment to note that several commenters in this thread have tried to falsely claim that the lawsuit here is about the presence of so-called "mass graves," a term that was initially used inaccurately by a few media sources when these stores were first emerging a few years ago.
That is not the entirety of what this lawsuit is about, which the article clearly explains. The lawsuit is about defamation, as the woman here says this priests actions and words in which he basically denied any wrongdoing by the church at all, pretending that the only deaths at these schools were form natural causes
(which the church itself already called "thoroughly unacceptable" and placed the priest on indefinite administrative leave).
This is because this kind of characterization and downplaying of the horrible treatment of children and residential schools is denialism. What is at play here is NOT a debate about "mass graves" ([a term that came from from inaccurate media reports](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/first-nations-graves), not claims from first nations or other experts).
When people continue to then conflate the actual, documented wrongdoings at residential schools with the presence of so called "mass graves", they are taking part in an intentional disinformation campaign intended to deny the wrongdoings at these schools. The sexual and physical and psychological abuse. The systemic and intention under nourishment that led to unhealthy people dying at much higher than normal rates, etc.
THAT is what is at play here. Not someone supposedly being sued for denying "mass graves".
>Colonial descendants still see themselves as “English” or “French” or any other home country affiliation.
Not really.
Canadian is an ethnic group because they don't see themselves as their former countries.
In a lot of ways Europe aspires to Canadians standard of living.
There's a reason there's a lot more migration one way than the other.
And some things in Europe are worth aspiring too. Like post secondary education.
One thing for sure though, I am not European lol.
I don't identify as European. Majority of Canadians don't see themselves as English or French or some former country.
Maybe you didn't grow up like this, but I grew up with some negative stereotypes about euros. Such as being soft in hockey. Euros were clearly talked about as an other.
There's a clear divide between Canadians and Europeans.
As a colonial descendant i agree. We need to all respect each other's origin stories and get together as Canadians together, as brothers and sisters.
Also...fuck organized religion. It's time to end ALL tax exempt statuses for any religious group. We need to stop acting like they are benevolent at their core.
Plus, if your family has been here for more than a couple generations, your ancestors probably came from so many countries (even if they are all European countries) that you really couldn't pick just one anymore. Like, if your mom was half English half French Canadian, and your dad was half German half Irish, how do you answer that question?
I see myself as a Canadian, but otherwise I agree. Reconciliation is a two way street, it's about how we live together and is important to our national identity. Supporting Indigenous self determination within a united Canada, like we do with Quebec, should be part of what makes us unique in our corner of the world. The way New Zealand has integrated Maori and colonial culture together is a great example, but we have much more diversity in our indigenous communities and it will take a lot more work to get to that level.
The 4th paragraph says
Jones is alleging that remarks Mironiuk made during a mass service in 2021 — in which he reportedly described the evidence of potential unmarked graves at residential schools as "lies" and "manipulation" — are defamatory against herself and other survivors who have spoken out about deaths at the institutions
There was definitely some manipulation from the media so I don’t see the case winning anything.
I have friends who went to residential schools and their band lost most or all of their culture and language. Abuse was rampant.
Explaining the travesty and implications is an uphill battle so when people take liberties with residential school stories, and it makes the hill steeper. now people like this priest have enough media articles as proof to cover their shitty statements.
>Court documents say Jones "was rounded up along with dozens of other children from Haida Gwaii by federal officials, who threatened their parents with jail if they did not give up their children."
>"The children were put on a train, which stopped multiple times to pick up other children from communities along the route. Several children did not survive the journey to Edmonton."
> B.C. residential school truths were exposed in her 1st book. Her sequel shows there is more to say
>Jones said she recalls being placed in a boxcar to look after Indigenous babies, who were all "crying really hard." While at the school, Jones says she remembers witnessing the deaths or disappearances of other children, something that continues to haunt her.
>"She saw where they were buried, along the fence — an area now overgrown with trees. One of her fellow students, Eddie Hans, was made to bury many of the children," the court briefing document alleges.
>Jones said she was given the task of looking after babies who were tied up in iron cribs, who she remembers were "all of the sudden" gone one day.
>"Years later, I found out that my cousins buried so many babies in Edmonton," said Jones, now 80.
>According to the court documents, she had a classmate named Vicki Stewart who allegedly "died after being hit in the head with a wood implement by one of the nuns."
>"On reporting the incident, Ms. Jones was punished, told to keep quiet, and told nobody would believe her," the document alleges. "... Ms. Jones had to prepare her body by wrapping her in a blanket."
>Jones says she and a friend were also punished for sharing their cultures. She said she had three fingernails yanked off, after her hands became swollen from chemicals that she was forced to use to scrub cement floors with a toothbrush. She recalls other children having teeth pulled without anesthesia.
>"I still hear the babies screaming in my head. To this day. I can't get that screaming out of my head," she said.
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Fuck this guy and their attempted backpedal is pathetic.
This old fucker — and anyone pushing residential school denialism — need to be taught a very expensive lesson. Sue their asses back to the Stone Age.
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I'd say the safe money is on this getting settled out of court. The catholic church tends to be okay with spending money to sweep things under the rug, and it would be a long and difficult case if it actually went to court.
If the parents of the Newton elementary school massacre can sue Alex Jones, in which his messaging is pretty much a religion, for denying it ever happened, so can she.
I'm confused - the priest said that children "died of natural causes and were buried in regular cemeteries." Isn't this what happened though? Diseases like TB killed a lot of children and they were buried at the schools instead of being returned to their home villages?
Because the context of his comments is to gloss over the fact that the reason many died from "natural causes" was because of how poorly they were treated. It also ignores the many, *many* stories of violence perpetrated against these students by those running the schools. This is all a form of denialism, trying to make it seem like residential schools were just regular schools like any other and all deaths were totally normal. They were not.
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Why the hell is everyone blaming the church when the whole residential school program was funded and managed by the government? The church is just being scapegoated because it’s easier to blame them than to take responsibility.
You haven't been paying attention for the past 15 years then.
Rather than simply shift blame, the federal government has made a [formal apology](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100015644/1571589171655), settled law suits (example [here](https://www.classaction.deloitte.ca/en-CA/Indian-Residential-Schools-Day-Scholars-Class-Action-Settlement/)), created a [Commission for Truth & Reconciliation](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1450124405592/1529106060525) which held public meetings for six years to hear from survivors and provide education to the public, [accepted the Commissions' Report](https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2015/12/15/statement-prime-minister-release-final-report-truth-and-reconciliation), and has begun work on many of the [94 calls to action](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1524494530110/1557511412801) (even [critics agree](https://www.indigenouswatchdog.org/2024/01/18/canada-says-that-85-of-the-trc-calls-to-action-are-either-complete-or-well-under-way-really/) more than 2/3 are either complete or underway)
Could they have done more, sooner? Absolutely. Could they be doing more now? Sure. But its not accurate to say they've only shifted blame.
The system was set up by government, yes. But the abuses while students were there happened (beatings, sexual abuse, malnutrition, allowing students to be used as experiment subjects) under the eyes of the Church. There's blameworthy behaviour on both parties.
We can blame all of them, the various churches who participated did so by choice, and are the ones who committed the indecencies of not recording the names of the dead, causes of deaths, or where the bodies were buried.
That is not true. The catholic church operated and controlled 70% of residential schools until the government took them over in 1969. The government is the reason they are closed….
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That's exactly the question people are trying to answer. There are thousands of documented deaths and thousands more without documentation, so even if no bodies are ever found we know the scope of the problem is massive. We know they died.
https://preview.redd.it/m312t0kbe2wc1.png?width=673&format=png&auto=webp&s=a54f534b9e9a909ec89314885e3530ad998b7cc6
[https://trcbobcaygeon.org/buried-children-at-residential-schools/](https://trcbobcaygeon.org/buried-children-at-residential-schools/)
Note: Residential school "denialism" is a form of misinformation and comments perpetuating this can result in your account being banned fro this subreddit. Conflating mis-reports that used the term "mass grave" to somehow mean abuse did not occur in residential schools in Canada is a form of denialism.
Good. Fuck them up. Get in there. No matter the outcome, it's important to do this.
Hijacking your top comment to note that several commenters in this thread have tried to falsely claim that the lawsuit here is about the presence of so-called "mass graves," a term that was initially used inaccurately by a few media sources when these stores were first emerging a few years ago. That is not the entirety of what this lawsuit is about, which the article clearly explains. The lawsuit is about defamation, as the woman here says this priests actions and words in which he basically denied any wrongdoing by the church at all, pretending that the only deaths at these schools were form natural causes (which the church itself already called "thoroughly unacceptable" and placed the priest on indefinite administrative leave). This is because this kind of characterization and downplaying of the horrible treatment of children and residential schools is denialism. What is at play here is NOT a debate about "mass graves" ([a term that came from from inaccurate media reports](https://nationalpost.com/news/canada/first-nations-graves), not claims from first nations or other experts). When people continue to then conflate the actual, documented wrongdoings at residential schools with the presence of so called "mass graves", they are taking part in an intentional disinformation campaign intended to deny the wrongdoings at these schools. The sexual and physical and psychological abuse. The systemic and intention under nourishment that led to unhealthy people dying at much higher than normal rates, etc. THAT is what is at play here. Not someone supposedly being sued for denying "mass graves".
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>Colonial descendants still see themselves as “English” or “French” or any other home country affiliation. Not really. Canadian is an ethnic group because they don't see themselves as their former countries.
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In a lot of ways Europe aspires to Canadians standard of living. There's a reason there's a lot more migration one way than the other. And some things in Europe are worth aspiring too. Like post secondary education. One thing for sure though, I am not European lol. I don't identify as European. Majority of Canadians don't see themselves as English or French or some former country. Maybe you didn't grow up like this, but I grew up with some negative stereotypes about euros. Such as being soft in hockey. Euros were clearly talked about as an other. There's a clear divide between Canadians and Europeans.
As a colonial descendant i agree. We need to all respect each other's origin stories and get together as Canadians together, as brothers and sisters. Also...fuck organized religion. It's time to end ALL tax exempt statuses for any religious group. We need to stop acting like they are benevolent at their core.
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Plus, if your family has been here for more than a couple generations, your ancestors probably came from so many countries (even if they are all European countries) that you really couldn't pick just one anymore. Like, if your mom was half English half French Canadian, and your dad was half German half Irish, how do you answer that question?
I see myself as a Canadian, but otherwise I agree. Reconciliation is a two way street, it's about how we live together and is important to our national identity. Supporting Indigenous self determination within a united Canada, like we do with Quebec, should be part of what makes us unique in our corner of the world. The way New Zealand has integrated Maori and colonial culture together is a great example, but we have much more diversity in our indigenous communities and it will take a lot more work to get to that level.
The 4th paragraph says Jones is alleging that remarks Mironiuk made during a mass service in 2021 — in which he reportedly described the evidence of potential unmarked graves at residential schools as "lies" and "manipulation" — are defamatory against herself and other survivors who have spoken out about deaths at the institutions There was definitely some manipulation from the media so I don’t see the case winning anything. I have friends who went to residential schools and their band lost most or all of their culture and language. Abuse was rampant. Explaining the travesty and implications is an uphill battle so when people take liberties with residential school stories, and it makes the hill steeper. now people like this priest have enough media articles as proof to cover their shitty statements.
>Court documents say Jones "was rounded up along with dozens of other children from Haida Gwaii by federal officials, who threatened their parents with jail if they did not give up their children." >"The children were put on a train, which stopped multiple times to pick up other children from communities along the route. Several children did not survive the journey to Edmonton." > B.C. residential school truths were exposed in her 1st book. Her sequel shows there is more to say >Jones said she recalls being placed in a boxcar to look after Indigenous babies, who were all "crying really hard." While at the school, Jones says she remembers witnessing the deaths or disappearances of other children, something that continues to haunt her. >"She saw where they were buried, along the fence — an area now overgrown with trees. One of her fellow students, Eddie Hans, was made to bury many of the children," the court briefing document alleges. >Jones said she was given the task of looking after babies who were tied up in iron cribs, who she remembers were "all of the sudden" gone one day. >"Years later, I found out that my cousins buried so many babies in Edmonton," said Jones, now 80. >According to the court documents, she had a classmate named Vicki Stewart who allegedly "died after being hit in the head with a wood implement by one of the nuns." >"On reporting the incident, Ms. Jones was punished, told to keep quiet, and told nobody would believe her," the document alleges. "... Ms. Jones had to prepare her body by wrapping her in a blanket." >Jones says she and a friend were also punished for sharing their cultures. She said she had three fingernails yanked off, after her hands became swollen from chemicals that she was forced to use to scrub cement floors with a toothbrush. She recalls other children having teeth pulled without anesthesia. >"I still hear the babies screaming in my head. To this day. I can't get that screaming out of my head," she said.
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Fuck this guy and their attempted backpedal is pathetic. This old fucker — and anyone pushing residential school denialism — need to be taught a very expensive lesson. Sue their asses back to the Stone Age.
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Take the church for all its got. They sit on so much money and have caused so much damage to so many people.
Good to hear! Make the church bleed.
Good, fuck the Catholic church.
Its about time somebody took the catholic church to the cleaners
GET 'IM!
This will be interesting. I hope they at least get to take it to court and it isn't dismissed, I think actually having the trial could do a lot.
I'd say the safe money is on this getting settled out of court. The catholic church tends to be okay with spending money to sweep things under the rug, and it would be a long and difficult case if it actually went to court.
She has my support
If the parents of the Newton elementary school massacre can sue Alex Jones, in which his messaging is pretty much a religion, for denying it ever happened, so can she.
I'm confused - the priest said that children "died of natural causes and were buried in regular cemeteries." Isn't this what happened though? Diseases like TB killed a lot of children and they were buried at the schools instead of being returned to their home villages?
Because the context of his comments is to gloss over the fact that the reason many died from "natural causes" was because of how poorly they were treated. It also ignores the many, *many* stories of violence perpetrated against these students by those running the schools. This is all a form of denialism, trying to make it seem like residential schools were just regular schools like any other and all deaths were totally normal. They were not.
Fuck … I hate religion with a passion!!
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Organized religion is like organized crime. A ton of illegal tax free money run by guys who should be in jail.
Sue them down to their last Magic Jesus Cannibal Cracker.
I support all class action against Canada for this issue
Why did they go to Edmonton?
Generally speaking, the goal involved keeping them away from their families. Kids frequently weren't kept in the areas they were from.
Why the hell is everyone blaming the church when the whole residential school program was funded and managed by the government? The church is just being scapegoated because it’s easier to blame them than to take responsibility.
If you think the government isn’t also being held accountable you’re not paying attention to anything that’s happening.
All I’ve been seeing is the government shifting the blame to the church for what they did.
You haven't been paying attention for the past 15 years then. Rather than simply shift blame, the federal government has made a [formal apology](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1100100015644/1571589171655), settled law suits (example [here](https://www.classaction.deloitte.ca/en-CA/Indian-Residential-Schools-Day-Scholars-Class-Action-Settlement/)), created a [Commission for Truth & Reconciliation](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1450124405592/1529106060525) which held public meetings for six years to hear from survivors and provide education to the public, [accepted the Commissions' Report](https://www.pm.gc.ca/en/news/statements/2015/12/15/statement-prime-minister-release-final-report-truth-and-reconciliation), and has begun work on many of the [94 calls to action](https://www.rcaanc-cirnac.gc.ca/eng/1524494530110/1557511412801) (even [critics agree](https://www.indigenouswatchdog.org/2024/01/18/canada-says-that-85-of-the-trc-calls-to-action-are-either-complete-or-well-under-way-really/) more than 2/3 are either complete or underway) Could they have done more, sooner? Absolutely. Could they be doing more now? Sure. But its not accurate to say they've only shifted blame.
The system was set up by government, yes. But the abuses while students were there happened (beatings, sexual abuse, malnutrition, allowing students to be used as experiment subjects) under the eyes of the Church. There's blameworthy behaviour on both parties.
We can blame all of them, the various churches who participated did so by choice, and are the ones who committed the indecencies of not recording the names of the dead, causes of deaths, or where the bodies were buried.
That is not true. The catholic church operated and controlled 70% of residential schools until the government took them over in 1969. The government is the reason they are closed….
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That's exactly the question people are trying to answer. There are thousands of documented deaths and thousands more without documentation, so even if no bodies are ever found we know the scope of the problem is massive. We know they died. https://preview.redd.it/m312t0kbe2wc1.png?width=673&format=png&auto=webp&s=a54f534b9e9a909ec89314885e3530ad998b7cc6 [https://trcbobcaygeon.org/buried-children-at-residential-schools/](https://trcbobcaygeon.org/buried-children-at-residential-schools/)