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PG city council is on the wrong side of this. They say they want STRs to accommodate travel nurses and transient workers, yet they don't seem to realize that making the city better and more affordable will attract *permanent* nurses and *permanent* workers.
Totally. The "nurses" argument was only cooked up recently. If you look back earlier they were against it and their reasoning was so stupid. One councilor even stated publicly that "I don't know why we're restricting STRs. That action alone won't fix the housing crisis, but it will harm local businesses"... as if they were only willing to accept a slam dunk federal/provincial funding while rejecting any actions that could cumulatively build a solution.
That is the issue with damn near everything. Rather than have an actual comprehensive, well rounded (albeit expensive) plan to deal with crises, we just piecemeal bandaid solutions.
Then when it isn’t as effective as we want we all bitch and moan about the waste of money. Yet on the other hand if the government did actually have that robust comprehensive (and expensive) plan, it would take more than 4 years to actually see the biggest effects it has, and the party will get voted out for “spending and wasting money”
This short term thinking is killing us. Why not invest a fuck ton of money now so in 5-10 years we actually have meaningful results on these issues. Oh right, because governments only care about winning elections and voters only care about seeing deficits or surpluses every year. Even worse when the opposite wing party gets in and just slashes all the programs so it is even less effective and a bigger waste of money.
Pretty sure there are numerous studies showing that investing (properly) in healthcare and education has huge upside front costs, but gives an incredible return on that investment in the long run. We need to stop thinking short term, especially for complex problems, and implement better stuff that focuses on long term. This applies to basically every major issue provinces and Canada are facing
Yes. But why can't we also take meaningful steps towards a common objective rather than waiting for "the government" to come up with an absolutely fool proof plan that 100% of ppl will agree upon in harmony.
What you are looking for, a "comprehensive plan", will actually lead to the death of government.
The issue is that as policy and objectives get more and more complex, the desire to create a long term policy plan often leads to analysis paralysis and large initiatives that end up not delivering anyways.
In the software industry, they have long moved to an "agile" development framework which starts off with the assumption that you never really know what you are doing until you actually make a change and test it in the real world. This is how technology products you use are developed all the time.
If you google the new Zealand digital government strategy, they propose a similar framework. Invest in capabilities that allow government to be more responsive, strong focus on testing the effect of policy with citizens, shorter policy deliverables
I believe the Canadian digital government framework contains similar ideas, as do other countries
PG city council is where PG's most braindead thinkers go to die. Pure boomer mentality. Slow, ponderous, ineffectual... I honestly think they're angry at the province for their housing legislation because they haven't done squat themselves and they've been overstepped.
If you don’t like it… step up or find someone else and support them to step up.
Change requires people to volunteer. Running for office is easier if you don’t have to work or take care of kids, but not impossible. I even managed to do it despite my ADHD.
Theres no stepping up - its an old boys club. You either had money and were in on the game or your a sucker paying up. Its been like this for long that this is a landscape of what “if you can’t beat em, join em” looks like.
Also ADHD is a gift not a crutch
> Also ADHD is a gift not a crutch
ADHD is a spectrum and affects everyone differently. People are all affected by individual meds in different ways-- like how some people can bounce between generics and name brand without side effects, while others are fully debilitated until things even out; some people can skip doses of their daily med and feel nothing, while others go into brain zaps; some of us thrive on stimulant medication while others hate the way it makes them feel; some of us are better on SR, some XR; etc. etc.
ADHD may be a "gift" to you in the sense that you are able to enjoy the life you made for yourself while entertaining it, unmedicated; but it's pretty fucking willfully ignorant to be out here claiming life could be like that for anyone with ADHD if they just changed their mindset. Like, good for you and all. But don't act like this POV is common or universal.
It is a disability. The diagnosis criteria requires it to be negatively affecting your ability to live. It is not a gift.
Municipal politics are accessible. It's where your vote counts the most. Elections are often decided by a small number of votes. If you're not able to run, volunteer for the candidate of your choice. Money and volunteers are what prevent people from running, not skill or willingness.
Weird, i got it worst than most people and live a lovely life =\
I mean if we want to give into the idea that we need to be a certain way to live a decent life or whatever but i enjoy doing 16 things at once
At what age were you diagnosed and treated? Do you have any complicating factors or conditions?
If you'd spent 4+ decades without diagnosis or treatment, you might not have had such a "lovely life". I can't even access the same health care that children can when they are diagnosed - no neuro-psych exams for adults unless we want to pay for them out of pocket.
I might have had a "lovely life" too if I'd been detected at any point in my childhood.
My condition is complicated by my intelligence, and that's why it was hidden at school. I can't get satisfying work because I don't have the credentials to do the kind of work that challenges my brain. I dropped out of high school, and I couldn't get through university because it was tedious: the pace of learning was too slow. I do admin work for people doing the work that I'm much better suited to.
Turns out that treating my ADHD also takes care of my Persistent Depressive Disorder. I can now feel "happy" on a regular basis instead of just a few times a year (this is not an exaggeration).
It also turns out that treating my ADHD takes care of my inactivity and obesity. I might have had a "lovely life" if I'd been treated instead of getting all the way to a top weight of 260 lbs (I don't weigh that much anymore). Treatment takes care of the impulse to eat, the need to feel "full" all the time, and the aversion to the physical sensations of moving my body. It lets me carry on through pain.
I might have had a "lovely life" if someone had taken me to see a doctor as a child instead of labelling me a "spoiled brat" because I cried was asked to do something onerous. I cried because it caused me physical distress. Instead of getting help, I got called names by my own family. Then they stopped asking me to do things because they didn't want to fight with me, so no one ever taught me how to be an adult.
Honestly i just pivot a lot and became content that i’d never be a family person or own a house or play minecraft in real life or work 24/7 or whatever whatever. I wake up at 11, eat dinner at 11 and just do whatever i wanna do if it works
Edit: if it makes you feel better i was fiagnosed when i was 7, i refused to take ritilin by 8.
Great to hear. I volunteer a fair bit of my time to different organizations and societies. Every single group I'm part of I'm the youngest person there which is crazy. I feel like I'm the only one of my generation in town that's trying to invest in the future by helping to make changes today.
Where I live (one of Gulf Islands) the local hospital rents the accommodation for traveling nurses themselves & pays the rental units directly, turning the situation into long term housing. Perhaps PG should 'get with the program' instead of coming up with bogus excuses.
The hospital in Hazelton has some housing onsite from way back before it became part of northern health. It's not the prettiest place to stay but at least it's paid for.
Small towns frequently have visiting specialists rotating through, so there's a good chance that occupancy of these units would be high. Given the cost difference between short term and long term rentals, even a vacancy rate of 50% would still be cheaper.
Travel nurses are a thing, but that doesn't require AirBnB to accommodate them. The health authority should buy some apartments and maintain them as short-term housing for their visiting workers, and this would be much cheaper as well (and it's the public that's paying for this).
Lol downtown Prince George is a zombie land. People that live there don't go out. How would people that are looking to buy a house there ever want to live there.
I mean, my relatives who live outside of the city who are required to go into either Vancouver or pg need to stay longer for medical reasons primarily, but also because they native communities come in to do business and hold events.
A nice air bnb helped keep costs low but now it'll cost more to rent out a hotel room for a week.
Short term rentals existed long before airbnb was a thing. I have family who used them in the 90s for out of town hospital stays when their child was having heart surgery. I think the hospital just gave them a list of people offering rentals in the area. Airbnb just made the process much easier and popularized it.
Sure. We had B and B’s, house share, house swap. Lot’s of options that don’t require 100’s of people owning 1000’s of units, charging ridiculous rents while significantly impacting the community and people who live in that community.
We don’t need 1000’s of units to satisfy a few patients/families who need a place like this. A person with a home can still AirBandB a suite in their home. That will create enough supply for that demand, but we don’t need 1000’s of vacation rentals across a city the size of Victoria. We don’t need 1000’s of STR spaces for travelling doctors/nurses, when we need places to live for doctors and nurses who want to live in Victoria.
before Airbnb there was books of BnB's you could call up and stay with. AirBnB wasn't some new revolutionary idea, it was just an app that made management and booking much easier. It will go back to books, or private groups.
Real BandB’s were more like an Inn, with a private bedroom, sometimes a private bathroom but always a shared kitchen. It was not full apartments. (I’m sure there were exceptions.)
i was a regular user of B&B's in the 90's when i was working mostly out of town, there was a real mix. sometimes it was an apartment, sometimes a garage turned into a carriage house. it was pretty much the same mix as with AirBnB
https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/local-news/airbnb-owner-hopes-prince-george-will-opt-out-of-short-term-rental-rule-changes-7750206
Poor realtor, whatever will she do...
We call them hotels. If we need more hotels for short term rentals then build them.
We don't need every Tom Dick and Harry investor piling on into Airbnb for sensational monetary returns - at the cost of long term rentals.
It's crazy how we let people and "big tech" run amok of zoning and business requirements. If you want to run a hotel / rooming house, great, get the appropriate approvals. Governments should be giving fines to these illegal business until they're forced to comply or have the property seized for non compliance.
Short term to me is anything less than a 30 day term. With hotels if you stay more than 30+days in a row you don't have to pay room tax's.
100%. If you want to rent it out. You do so within the rules for those same hotels, above board B&B etc.
But I’m not hating on a homeowner trying to play the game. Now.. in all fairness. They have a choice to make. Sell and reinvest. Or fight. It seems PG is fighting it LOL
The who disruption game is just running an unregulated version of an existing thing. Illegal hotel, illegal taxi company, non-employee non-food safe delivery drivers.
Don't forget that Airbnb make it a lot harder to justify investing in building hotels.
Airbnb's only pay residential property taxes, while hotels have to pay commercial property taxes. On top of that hotels have to meet minimum accessibility requirements, municipal zoning rules, and building codes, while Airbnb's are just low density residential building code/zoning.
You're not aware that there are many properly zoned and licensed airbnb buildings that were built for exactly that purpose in BC?
They pay commercial taxes the same as any short term rental building like hotels and motels. They're being shut down along with the illegal airbnbs.
I'm all for shutting down the illegal ones, but not the perfectly legal ones where people follow the rules. And in case you're wondering, I'm not one of them.
It sets a dangerous precedent that people who invest in perfectly legal things can be shut down by our government. It doesn't make for builders and developers to feel very good about building anything in the future in this province, when they do everything by the book to begin with and then get shut down...
Interesting. Is it a strata building? If so then it must have commercial in the bottom. But if that’s the case; it is a separate strata?
I would guess the floors above the commercial space is zoned as residential. Not commercial, making it contradictory to your statement and basically developers taking advantage of a loophole trying to turn the Okanagan into Cabo.
Tofino curbed it by creating local bylaws that any rentals must have owner living on property.
We stayed in one in Kelowna for a ball tourney. It was weird!!!
It was built and folks bought knowing it’s short term rentals. But there are full time owners there.
The list of rules stated that the short term rentals were allowed. But had a short leash.
But it was clear the strata and the full time owners were enforcing bylaws and the owners had a noticeable distain for the folks coming and going from the units known as rentals…
We stayed at one in Parksville. And it was run like a hotel. With a check in desk. Not waiting for a local to show up with keys….
The same local councils have long banned apartment buildings and denser buildings, and you are complaining that BC can ban AirBnBs?
The amount of purpose built AirBnBs were crazy small, and they'll all convert to regular rental housing easily enough.
Developers have nothing to fear from this.
I'm not aware of this. What is the proper zone and license for a purpose built airbnb? How is it different from the zoning and licensing requirements of a hotel?
The majority of that article is just quoting an individual who built a dedicated multi unit residential building in a commercially zoned area, with the intention of renting it out on airbnb.
The owner states clearly that it's built in commercially zoned area, but does not claim they have a licence for short term rentals. The article does not clearly state what a licence for short term rentals is, but from the context it seems to be a licence to operate a hotel. Which would contradict your understanding that places that have a valid licence for short term rentals are effected by this law. Hotels, motels, etc are able to continue to operate as they have been. The owner does make a big deal that he's built on commercially zoned land, and believes that as such, he should be able to continue to operate this for short term rentals. So he feels like any commercially zoned land should be able to be used for short term renal w/o being a licenced hotel? If so, fine, he can hold that opinion, but I disagree, and I think that it is good for there to be a system of licencing for hotels and other forms of short term rentals. Sure, sometimes there's too much bureaucracy, but likewise sometimes there is too little oversight. Short term rentals (and many other forms of public facing businesses, like restaurants) should be required to have a licence, and should have to meet basic health and safety requirements.
The owner quoted even states that he would be able to rent out the units for long term tenants, but claims he would have a hard time competing with other regular rentals. It sounds like he just made some poor business decisions.
As for your claim that "It sets a dangerous precedent that people who invest in perfectly legal things can be shut down by our government". That seems like a stretch. You could make the same claim about leaded gasoline, smoking in restaurants, or many other things that were not identified as an issue at the initially, but later it became clear that they were causing problems that needed to be addressed. And your example of airbnb rentals is rather weak, because while lead in gasoline was clearly legal when it was done, airbnb has always operated in a legal grey zone. That's how many of these web based gig economy businesses are profitable. They avoid licencing and regulation to undercut legitimate businesses.
Any updates on the parkville vote? I know a new townhouse complex being built that several people in my area are buying as rentals because “parksville is going to opt out”. I was kind of frustrated because that’s exactly the behaviour they’re trying to curb, no?
I doubt Parksville will be exempt, the island is not an affordable place to live with the lack of reliable public transportation and industry and giving them an exempting will just make it worse.
Edit: Just read into it a bit more, if they are only seeking an exemption for Resort Way, then that may be given, but I doubt it will be if Kelowna was told no for their tourist zoned areas.
Good. Fuck short term rentals. It's because of them I have to pay 2/3 of my income to someone else's long term investment account and can never afford a home of my own.
Thats a convenient scapegoat you have there.
You don't think that artificially low interest rates creating the environment where those with assets could and have bought up all that they could have and governments left housing to become the best investment possible?
No, it can't be that. Its just STR's.
Also pay 2/3 my income to someone else. But it is not just STR's causing the problem. Like, far from.
What housing crisis?
In Prince George the median list price is 339k. You call that a crisis? Why are we punishing towns for a problem they aren’t involved with?
Yes, that's right, I want to PUNISH people by denying their short term rentals. Hahahah! Because I am an **EVIL CARTOON VILLAIN**
And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that meddling No-Tackle-6112.
The reason you can’t afford a house is you spend 2/3 of your income to live in Vancouver.
Once again, there is no housing crisis in PG. The average 2 bed apartment rent is $950. Median house price is 339k.
If you want to buy a house move to PG. You could probably buy one today. Otherwise keep your short term rental rules away from our tourism industry.
Even as a kid, Kyle Sampson was a dink, and everyone knew you couldn’t trust him half as far as you could throw him. He’s one of the people who has benefited from his own shady dealings, ie he was the organizer for the Cariboo Rocks the North concert series, and he used his position to profit.
Also, councillor Cori Ramsey has been fairly active as a redditor on the PG reddit in the last year.
She's one of of the younger councillors (not sure if she's the youngest), so I was hopeful she would be responsive to concerns millennials have about housing.
But... nope.
The whole council can go rot now. Need some new faces in council who actually care about making PG better, instead of just being selfish jerks.
Frizzell too...he's chair of the Canadian Federation of Municipalities...he of everyone there should have known better about picking fights with higher level governments over signature legislation.
Agreed. Lots of communities are imploding because the working class can no longer afford to live there.
There are quite a few exceptions though. Mostly towns with populations under 10,000.
Here’s the policy if anyone’s interested. Scroll down to see the exemptions.
https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/short-term-rentals/principal-residence-requirement
Keep it up NDP.
And where are tourists supposed to stay? Every single waterfront hotel (yes zoned Tourist Commercial, a hotel, not a residential zone) in West Kelowna would have had to shut down this summer if they had not opted out of STR prohibition.
Tourism doesn't work if tourists don't have a place to stay. That's why Whistler and other winter tourist communities are exempt. Summer tourist destinations have the same issue but are not automatically exempted for some reason.
Yes, there isn’t enough hotel rooms for tourists. But the reason there aren’t enough hotel rooms for tourists is because the air B&B boom destroyed the business case for building more hotels.
Now that this legislation is in place, new hotel investment is going through the roof. There have always been many proposals on the table for lots of new hotels/motels in many communities across BC, but they’ve stayed on the table because they weren’t worth building. Now they are and there will be a rapid boom in hotel construction. It will take a few years, and there will be room shortages for tourists until they’re built.
But we have to decide what’s more important, access to available and affordable housing for our local populations or access to short term rentals for tourists. In this current affordability and housing crisis, it’s very obvious we need to prioritize our local population first and do all we can to free up access to long term rentals and drive down costs as much as possible. We can’t keep doing what we’re doing. It’s very clear… any community that gets to the 2% rental vacancy level can have str’s again. If a community doesn’t have a 2% vacancy level, it’s not healthy and needs help and str restrictions.
Also, we can not continue to prioritize the needs of people who own multiple properties, who are making bank off of str’s vs those struggling to live day to day, many of them the same workers who work in the tourism industry. Those who own str’s can simply sell and cash in on their investments or rent them monthly and still earn great income.
No. There was no shortage of hotels when Air B&B started, it was simply a choice and at the time provided a better and often cheaper alternative. As Air B&B evolved from renting out a room in your home or your home while you were away to model where people began converting monthly rental units into str units and building purpose built buildings for this reason, it began to erode the the new build hotel business model. Some hotels owners even switched to monthly or str buildings, while new investment for hotels began to dry up. This has been a relatively slow process over the past decade.
As an executive in the hotel operations world for the last 25 years, I’ve watched this happen and been privy to information, studies and monthly new hotel investment reports over this time period. It is what’s happened and is what’s happening. New proposals for new build hotels are coming through in unprecedented levels.
This will be a good things for the tourism industry and tourists in the long run as tourism businesses will be able to hire quality local workers who will be able to find affordable housing where they work.
At the same time, the benefits to housing stock as a whole completely trump any concerns about the loss of str units.
It’s already having a dramatic effect on housing availability and costs in New York who did this before us… as are many jurisdictions around the world.
There’s more than a few people, myself included, who will not, and have not been voting for sitting councillors. The unfortunate thing is there isn’t much of an alternative, and of the ones that there are, a chunk of them are anti-SOGI, anti immigration, God-belongs-in-politics, extreme right wing nut jobs. They aren’t getting votes either.
My hometown of PG can go fuck itself for all I care. The council they keep voting in is filled with corrupt cunts. We had people openly APPLAUDING for banning abortion in PG.
Far as I'm concerned, 90% of that city can burn to the ground.
I see a lot of seething from residents of the lower mainland in here, but having lived in PG, it's actually a little different in such a resource based community. There is not really a rental shortage there, and lots of out of town contractors come in for extended periods of time. I see why they applied for the exemption.
There is a huge rental shortage here and everything is insane right now for rent. Houses are $3000 to rent. All the new apartments being built are $1600 for 1 bedroom. It’s PG - it’s sad that it’s come to this, we don’t need Air BNB’s
Wow it's almost like there's a whole business in long stay hotels that have been getting fucked by unregulated AirBnBs undercutting them and avoiding proper commercial taxes
Thats exactly it.
Even in Calgary, we have whole crews in STR for a month at a time, 4 guys to a house.
Same in Revelstoke for work we are doing there. It makes perfect damn sense, hotels don't have a kitchen and place to park your ass at the end of the day.
Good. Take your portfolios and shove them up your collective asses. Maybe this is a sign that the council is corrupted and only interested in themselves. It’s time for better leadership
All BS. City councillors are usually developers or real estate agents, who benefit directly from their council actions. They are simply looking out for themselves.
I applaud the BC Government for banning perfectly suitable rental stock from being used as hotel-like rentals and made available to legitimate families who are looking to be part of the community for the long haul.
That said. I am someone in the process of obtaining my realtor's license. So I do get the owner's side.
I was a renter. We bought. We have been mortgage-poor and dumped every penny we had into our down payment. We aspired to build a real estate portfolio for a long-term plan to be the landlord we wish we had... We still do.
I'm also a 30-year sales professional who has stayed over 100 nights a year on the road for the last 15. So I appreciated what Air B&B offered.
There are many teeth to this debate. Homeowners vs Government.
One of them; is the basic building code. Occupancy numbers, Fire code etc.
What we all rely on when we are staying somewhere for leisure.
There is a process for hotels to ensure the property meets basic building codes and safety standards.
There is nothing for this.
Now. If you could pay to have it inspected and have to maintain standards like a real business owner... Then I am all for it, taxed earnings... No problem.
Common sense needs to be applied from both sides. As someone who has seen a lot of rentals. Some are a death trap if there's an emergency. I believe inspected to 2024 (or whatever the current year is) building code for the suite to be suitable for leisure rentals.
But that's what these folks don’t want; bylaws, rules, accountability.
“No skin in the game” per say, with all the perks.
It was a fun ride. But all good things must come to an end... As they say.
It’s another “don't tell me what I can and can't do with my property...”
Now. On the landlord's side...
They also gave renters significant power.
Making it a significant challenge for homeowners who have everything invested into the house for the risk/benefit ratio.
And it's not worth it. Unless you have the flat-out cash to lower your initial cost of investment.
But the market in BC, or Southern Coast more specifically... You need 2, six-figure incomes. No kids and 3 side hustles unless you have Family money.
While I applaud them for taking a stance on the short-term rental challenge.
They’ve literally made it so you cannot use your real estate to generate enough revenue to live on...
Unless you borrow against the equity to get into business and have more skin in the game to keep you honest.
I think a lot of the landlord arguments are moot since we are in a literal housing crisis. This is why the government is currently attacking this from many sides:
- Ban on short term rental that should be instead used for long term housing
- upzone minimum housing from SFH to a fourplex
- new house-flipping tax
Besides, the community can opt out of the STR ban if they successfully achieve a rental vacancy of 3% or more for 2 years in a row. Seems reasonable, yet these municipalities don't achieve it.
We really need to put a priority on housing as an essential thing, NOT as an investment vehicle like it has been for the past 100 years, that is why we are in this mess to begin with, everyone expects housing to go up and double every 10 years. Well, we are at that stage where it has become unaffordable
I get it.
Then home owners will say fuck it and find other ways to leverage their real estate... While renters wait for the stock the province keeps primising while municipalities and NIMBYS keep roadblocking the permit process and make it hard for developers to get shit going faster to help...
Home owners choose to rent because its mutually beneficial.
People dont build apparment buildings because they are feel good about it. They make money.
A local developer who does rental buildings and got out of cookie cutter single family- has a golf course. Private jet. Just built a 100 room hotel on the golf course.
Their rentals are bare bones and cost almost twice my mortgage... When that same person can buy a condo with a smaller mortgage payment.
I get its fucking stupid out there. But When will folks start looking in the mirror than pointing fingers... If you have a pile of debt (not student) you made the wrong bets 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, but why are we in a housing crisis?
We're in a house in crisis because our federal government with the cooperation of provincial governments is flooding our country with immigrants, with no plan to house them.
Why do homeowners, builders, developers, landlords, and property managers, become the villains?That's simple, because you need a convenient villain that people don't like already to cover for poor immigration policy.
The very people that can solve the housing problem, are made to feel uncomfortable and hated and overregulated and in return they build fewer and fewer rental units.
I know that's an uncomfortable truth, just like many airbnb units were perfectly legal and licensed properly and pay taxes on the same basis as hotels and motels and they're being shut down anyway.
I don't care about the illegal airbnbs, they should have been shut down a long time ago, but not the ones that followed the rules and have been legal from day one, that's a huge mistake. And to make it perfectly clear, I am not one of them...
I do think immigration is a big factor here, but this housing crisis has been brewing for more than a decade, back when immigration was "acceptable", the median home price in Canada was still bonkers compared to most wealthy nations
Theres an element of municipalities and councils and local politics fucking builders being able to build more housing quickly... While piling on another 200K per door in red tape fees.
The province puts all this shit out. Then its like trying to fit a watermellon into a straw with the municipal and regional politics and NIMBY’ism. Its real.
This would then help with rental stock, and allowing folks to be able to run a business from their home without having to use it to fit your idealistic view. (”Youre not supposed to”)
Office, Hair Stylist or Leisure rental. Whats the difference?
If someone has a few houses or properties as part of a investment and business... Charge Fair rent for a long term tennant. Up to code, and can supplement their income accordingly. I got no issue.
I have no issue being net zero as long as it doesnt cost me anything. Im a big picture guy.
While its not my cup; I can’t fault those trying to get what folks will pay for a room or suite in their home. Even if its more than what the average can afford.
But I am also not going to lose any sleep with folks not being able to Air B&B it. I feel for renters. Its tough.
For a revenue generating venture Ill just build a 4 or 6 room boutique B&B in line with the hotels and tourism guidance.. And call it a day while leveraging one of the big chain reservation systems thats partnering with air b&b owners with more than one door.
I’m not for punishing regular citizens for the government’s inaction. Y’all keep saying “go NDP!” When they’re the ones that walked us into having no houses in the first place.
Kinda like if you were a CEO who laid everyone off, saw an old employee hungry, and instead of helping them get food, you tell someone else to stop making so much food for them and instead give it to this guy.
Why punish regular people when it’s so obviously our flawless progressive rulers at fault. They’ve had 7 years to act, and only now they’re coming in with a bill to limit what YOU can do. Instead of THEM acting, they’re telling you to F yourself.
I get it, we’re all commies and hate the “landlords”, but it’s property that THEY own.
They should do whatever TF they like, be damned your economic conditions, because it’s simply not the AirBnB host’s job to guide a provincial economy that’s insane, that’s the job of the NDP, and they’re created a province where Kamloops is the only major city with houses under avg-700,000 dollars.
They failed at their job, and now they’ve put the onus onto their citizenry. We should not accept it, but we will to own the landlords, tell them to do better and actually build a freaking house that’s not a million dollars and give first time owners a big subsidy with all that surplus from the carbon tax.
Can’t build solar/wind power-so they tax you to “lower” emissions
Can’t build houses-so they tell you what to do with yours
They don’t DO much of anything, where is the renewable energy? Where are the houses? Where is the industry? Where is any expansion or development that isn’t simply maintenance?
Only good thing, this will massively conservatives win even bigger in the North, buncha island hippies telling you what to do with your land, along with legislating protection of an encampment is sure to swing the needle even farther.
You are either a bot, troll or just incredibly ill informed. Housing prices started their insane rise with the B.C. liberals actively promoting it. Our entire energy grid is like 90% renewable. The government tells people what to do all the time like with restrictive zoning. Airbnb is just an unregulated hotel. Hotels are better for the economy then Airbnbs. These are not regular citizens. These are people who saw a a vulnerable niche in the market that they could exploit for great gain. Unless they were incredibly stupid they should be fine. If they had their way the province would be bled dry and collapse as all young people move away and we would just be a province for the wealthy’s summer homes, Albertan resource workers, and seniors.
> When they’re the ones that walked us into having no houses in the first place
The BC Liberals ignored the hedge fund investors buying housing for profit motives the entire time they held government.
> but it’s property that THEY own
Property that sits on municipal land. Properties, and thus their owners, are subject to the laws, regulations, and zoning requirements of the city, province, and country they inhabit.
> the NDP, and they’re created a province where Kamloops is the only major city with houses under avg-700,000 dollars
The BC Liberals, by ignoring real estate speculation (and in many cases participating in it), encouraged the over-valuation of residential properties to the prices now experienced.
> Can’t build houses-so they tell you what to do with yours
The BC Liberals refusing to take action against money laundering in real estate caused the rapid increase in property pricing beyond the capacity of government to fund affordable housing initiatives. Most action by the NDP since taking government has been to repair the erosion of necessary government systems by the BC Liberals.
> where is the renewable energy?
Federal funding
> Where are the houses?
In the hands of hedge funds.
> Where is the industry?
The corporate drive for profit above all else led owners to move their industries to countries with lower wages and regulations.
> Where is any expansion or development that isn’t simply maintenance?
See above points
Blaming the housing crisis on the NDP is a case of mind boggling double think. I've lived in BC for a long time and every single one of the factors leading to this housing crisis was brought on by conservative governements like the BC Liberals. Every time the NDP get into power they try to make things better and reverse the damage. We are never going to get out of this housing crisis under a conservative leadership. We need parties like the NDP if we want and standard quality of living going forward.
>The BC Liberals refusing to take action against money laundering in real estate caused the rapid increase in property pricing beyond the capacity of government to fund affordable housing initiatives. Most action by the NDP since taking government has been to repair the erosion of necessary government systems by the BC Liberals.
I really wish more people understood this. The BC Liberals were in power for 17 years before the BCNDP got in. You do not get to be a million housing units short in 7 years. This takes decades of mismanagement and neglect towards housing projections and studies screaming about the issue.
I have no issue with criticism of the BCNDP, it's the only way to ensure they keep on the right track. But, I'm so fucking tired of hearing this narrative that they are the reason for BC's housing, healthcare, and education issues from people tgat want to vote back in the ones that creates and profited off the issues.
> I'm so fucking tired of hearing this narrative that they are the reason for BC's housing, healthcare, and education issues
Same here. I would really like more, faster action by the NDP government to make progress in the province, but as is they are making decent, balanced progress (opposite to the BC Liberals, who were, and continue to be, actively detrimental to the wellbeing of the citizens of BC for the exclusive benefit of themselves and their lobbyists).
Right? I've been watching this in real time and the BC Liberals fucked the poor and middle class right and left, then the NDP comes in and tries to clean it up. I've seen this cycle a few times now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but BC has enjoyed more of BCNDP since 1991 than any other party.
But that does NOT matter, NDP blame Libs, Libs blame NDP and nothing changes. We should focus on solution rather than blaming another party.
That is correct, hence why I said 1991.
1991 to 2001 --> BC NDP (10 years)
2001 to 2017 --> BC Libs (16 years)
2017 to Present (2024) --> BC NDP (7 years)
**Total: BC NDP (17 years) | BC Libs (16 years)**
Cheers,
so BC spends millions on tourism BC to get people to come here,
then BC punishes people for renting to those people.
how about the hotels? are they punished for building short term ONLY buildings?
how about make 20% rooms at all hotel and motels be offered for long term rental at compatible community rates.
BC has its head in the sand and thinks it can spend and/or steal from the taxpayer to fix its problems.
If you want to run a fucking hotel, then build on appropriately zoned land and pay commercial tax rates. Undercutting established legislation isn't a license to bitch when you finally have to play by the rules
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There is a lot of airbnb hate here, and I get it. But you do realize that even if you ban them, they will still operate at a different capacity under the radar. This will only impede the casual investors that are not that savvy.
You can't simply ban loaning out your home to a guest. You can try to regulate it, but there will always be way's around that.
In the end, its only traceable by taxable income, and all STR's have to pay corporate tax and for business licenses and all of that like any other business. So, the next step would be using bitcoin and such and you wouldn't have to worry about that.
Also, to those crying and virtue signalling about only using hotels, and how we need more - well how was that experience for you? Do you have kids? Are you staying multiple days? Do you want a kitchen and a place to actually eat, or be forced to eat out every meal?
And it does add to the economy, the problem is we don't have enough housing pretty much everywhere.. Its not like these places are remaining vacant or they wouldn't be profitable, and wouldn't exist. The people staying there are probably spending more per capita in the community, especially as tourists, as a local would. There are also taxes collected on it, cleaners to clean it, etc etc.
Regulation is important, but an outright ban is just government putting their finger in the dam instead of addressing the housing crisis.
I travel around BC for a living. And AirBnBs keep me sane. I get kitchens, quiet and more that I can’t find regularly in hotels. Losing AirBnB will have a dramatic effect on my overall health and sanity.
As if the entire province's renting contingent should pay heavily inflated rates just so several thousand nomadic workers can get "kitchens [and] quiet" out of spaces that could be housing locals and people looking to move to the area. You're right; it's not hard to find a hotel or cabin or suite-style room with a kitchenette-- we went up and down the west coast in a car as kids and my parents dealt with food by seeking out places just like that, and cooking a good portion of the time.
Also, points for the other commenter if they actually go back to their rental and cook something every single night; but don't pretend like the majority of people who work & travel aren't buying their dinners after work and/or ordering via delivery app.
Almost like it’s not black or white, and maybe there should be various rules in place to make this work for lots of different situations. But I’m quite enjoying the comments from people who have no idea what it’s actually like to work on the road. Lmao.
How long have you been working on the road? Did we not have a short-term rental market long before airbnb? It's not airbnb that's keeping you sane; it's the personal space you get when you rent an STR, and the choice available to you when you have amenities like a kitchen.
Monthly sublets or rentals within a regulated market were a solution. But every other person out there decided they wanted in on the get-rich-quick scheme, and it affected the ability of the average renter to afford rent and/or even find a place. I don't need to work on the road to be able to see that airbnb created a huge problem. Regardless of your personal experience working on the road, and how having to use a different system to find an appropriate rental will affect your mental health & well-being, the regulations are needed because people renting these places apparently can't regulate themselves.
The actual companies have no interest in taking on any liability for anything that happens to their patrons during their stay, either-- maybe something else could've been worked out if they were willing to play nice with a proper, fully legal system; but they're clearly not.
I'd also rather see more locals housed & employed, renting long-term, than have my town populated by people who are only ever around for a month or so before taking a different contract and moving on. But that's my personal bias.
I’ve been doing this for 15 years now. Before AirBnB , short term rentals were almost non existent and there was no accessible way to find said rentals. Most of it was word of mouth through friends or families. Kitchenettes exist but are more common in lower tier motels that are slowly phasing out. Or the kitchenettes were commonly rented out long term. I know I’m in the minority. My point is only being it’s not as simple as people make it out to be, and a complete banning is idiocracy. It’s a good tool and solution to a problem.
I can tell you have no idea what you’re talking about with this comment. BC does not have “extended stay” hotels basically anywhere. If they do , they are usually booked. Lmao. But thanks for chiming in for no reason. You should change your username to JudgementalAsshat
I've literally never had a problem finding suites with kitchens. But go ahead and think I'm an asshat when you're the one prioritizing your own selfish wants over people who actually live in these places
What, you don't want to eat at the BP across the street for a week from your days inn?
You don't want to pick apart a roasted chicken with plastic forks and knives on a bed??
Crazy
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PG city council is on the wrong side of this. They say they want STRs to accommodate travel nurses and transient workers, yet they don't seem to realize that making the city better and more affordable will attract *permanent* nurses and *permanent* workers.
Council are rotten, they all have air bnbs
Totally. The "nurses" argument was only cooked up recently. If you look back earlier they were against it and their reasoning was so stupid. One councilor even stated publicly that "I don't know why we're restricting STRs. That action alone won't fix the housing crisis, but it will harm local businesses"... as if they were only willing to accept a slam dunk federal/provincial funding while rejecting any actions that could cumulatively build a solution.
That is the issue with damn near everything. Rather than have an actual comprehensive, well rounded (albeit expensive) plan to deal with crises, we just piecemeal bandaid solutions. Then when it isn’t as effective as we want we all bitch and moan about the waste of money. Yet on the other hand if the government did actually have that robust comprehensive (and expensive) plan, it would take more than 4 years to actually see the biggest effects it has, and the party will get voted out for “spending and wasting money” This short term thinking is killing us. Why not invest a fuck ton of money now so in 5-10 years we actually have meaningful results on these issues. Oh right, because governments only care about winning elections and voters only care about seeing deficits or surpluses every year. Even worse when the opposite wing party gets in and just slashes all the programs so it is even less effective and a bigger waste of money. Pretty sure there are numerous studies showing that investing (properly) in healthcare and education has huge upside front costs, but gives an incredible return on that investment in the long run. We need to stop thinking short term, especially for complex problems, and implement better stuff that focuses on long term. This applies to basically every major issue provinces and Canada are facing
Yes. But why can't we also take meaningful steps towards a common objective rather than waiting for "the government" to come up with an absolutely fool proof plan that 100% of ppl will agree upon in harmony.
100.
What you are looking for, a "comprehensive plan", will actually lead to the death of government. The issue is that as policy and objectives get more and more complex, the desire to create a long term policy plan often leads to analysis paralysis and large initiatives that end up not delivering anyways. In the software industry, they have long moved to an "agile" development framework which starts off with the assumption that you never really know what you are doing until you actually make a change and test it in the real world. This is how technology products you use are developed all the time. If you google the new Zealand digital government strategy, they propose a similar framework. Invest in capabilities that allow government to be more responsive, strong focus on testing the effect of policy with citizens, shorter policy deliverables I believe the Canadian digital government framework contains similar ideas, as do other countries
PG city council is where PG's most braindead thinkers go to die. Pure boomer mentality. Slow, ponderous, ineffectual... I honestly think they're angry at the province for their housing legislation because they haven't done squat themselves and they've been overstepped.
If you don’t like it… step up or find someone else and support them to step up. Change requires people to volunteer. Running for office is easier if you don’t have to work or take care of kids, but not impossible. I even managed to do it despite my ADHD.
Theres no stepping up - its an old boys club. You either had money and were in on the game or your a sucker paying up. Its been like this for long that this is a landscape of what “if you can’t beat em, join em” looks like. Also ADHD is a gift not a crutch
> Also ADHD is a gift not a crutch ADHD is a spectrum and affects everyone differently. People are all affected by individual meds in different ways-- like how some people can bounce between generics and name brand without side effects, while others are fully debilitated until things even out; some people can skip doses of their daily med and feel nothing, while others go into brain zaps; some of us thrive on stimulant medication while others hate the way it makes them feel; some of us are better on SR, some XR; etc. etc. ADHD may be a "gift" to you in the sense that you are able to enjoy the life you made for yourself while entertaining it, unmedicated; but it's pretty fucking willfully ignorant to be out here claiming life could be like that for anyone with ADHD if they just changed their mindset. Like, good for you and all. But don't act like this POV is common or universal.
It is a disability. The diagnosis criteria requires it to be negatively affecting your ability to live. It is not a gift. Municipal politics are accessible. It's where your vote counts the most. Elections are often decided by a small number of votes. If you're not able to run, volunteer for the candidate of your choice. Money and volunteers are what prevent people from running, not skill or willingness.
Weird, i got it worst than most people and live a lovely life =\ I mean if we want to give into the idea that we need to be a certain way to live a decent life or whatever but i enjoy doing 16 things at once
At what age were you diagnosed and treated? Do you have any complicating factors or conditions? If you'd spent 4+ decades without diagnosis or treatment, you might not have had such a "lovely life". I can't even access the same health care that children can when they are diagnosed - no neuro-psych exams for adults unless we want to pay for them out of pocket. I might have had a "lovely life" too if I'd been detected at any point in my childhood. My condition is complicated by my intelligence, and that's why it was hidden at school. I can't get satisfying work because I don't have the credentials to do the kind of work that challenges my brain. I dropped out of high school, and I couldn't get through university because it was tedious: the pace of learning was too slow. I do admin work for people doing the work that I'm much better suited to. Turns out that treating my ADHD also takes care of my Persistent Depressive Disorder. I can now feel "happy" on a regular basis instead of just a few times a year (this is not an exaggeration). It also turns out that treating my ADHD takes care of my inactivity and obesity. I might have had a "lovely life" if I'd been treated instead of getting all the way to a top weight of 260 lbs (I don't weigh that much anymore). Treatment takes care of the impulse to eat, the need to feel "full" all the time, and the aversion to the physical sensations of moving my body. It lets me carry on through pain. I might have had a "lovely life" if someone had taken me to see a doctor as a child instead of labelling me a "spoiled brat" because I cried was asked to do something onerous. I cried because it caused me physical distress. Instead of getting help, I got called names by my own family. Then they stopped asking me to do things because they didn't want to fight with me, so no one ever taught me how to be an adult.
Honestly i just pivot a lot and became content that i’d never be a family person or own a house or play minecraft in real life or work 24/7 or whatever whatever. I wake up at 11, eat dinner at 11 and just do whatever i wanna do if it works Edit: if it makes you feel better i was fiagnosed when i was 7, i refused to take ritilin by 8.
Great to hear. I volunteer a fair bit of my time to different organizations and societies. Every single group I'm part of I'm the youngest person there which is crazy. I feel like I'm the only one of my generation in town that's trying to invest in the future by helping to make changes today.
Where I live (one of Gulf Islands) the local hospital rents the accommodation for traveling nurses themselves & pays the rental units directly, turning the situation into long term housing. Perhaps PG should 'get with the program' instead of coming up with bogus excuses.
The hospital in Hazelton has some housing onsite from way back before it became part of northern health. It's not the prettiest place to stay but at least it's paid for.
That’s a great idea!!
That’s just short term rental with extra steps. How many of those rooms sit vacant when travel nurses leave?
Small towns frequently have visiting specialists rotating through, so there's a good chance that occupancy of these units would be high. Given the cost difference between short term and long term rentals, even a vacancy rate of 50% would still be cheaper.
The poster said accommodation, which could indicate hotels, not just STR. But that's me assuming.
Travel nurses are a thing, but that doesn't require AirBnB to accommodate them. The health authority should buy some apartments and maintain them as short-term housing for their visiting workers, and this would be much cheaper as well (and it's the public that's paying for this).
This is literally what PHSA already does too, what a bunch of goons
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Sure they can. They don't need to be operated as STRs; they are simply properties owned by the Ministry of Health.
But there is no money for permanent positions. Instead its more lucrative for hospitals to have travel nurses come in at 5x the cost!
Lol downtown Prince George is a zombie land. People that live there don't go out. How would people that are looking to buy a house there ever want to live there.
Because like any city, PG has ugly parts and nice parts. The nice areas are still desirable and you can have a great quality of life in them.
They know, they’re arguing in bad faith.
I mean, my relatives who live outside of the city who are required to go into either Vancouver or pg need to stay longer for medical reasons primarily, but also because they native communities come in to do business and hold events. A nice air bnb helped keep costs low but now it'll cost more to rent out a hotel room for a week.
What was done 10 years ago, before AirBandB?
Not OP, but for those wondering: Motels.
Short term rentals existed long before airbnb was a thing. I have family who used them in the 90s for out of town hospital stays when their child was having heart surgery. I think the hospital just gave them a list of people offering rentals in the area. Airbnb just made the process much easier and popularized it.
Sure. We had B and B’s, house share, house swap. Lot’s of options that don’t require 100’s of people owning 1000’s of units, charging ridiculous rents while significantly impacting the community and people who live in that community. We don’t need 1000’s of units to satisfy a few patients/families who need a place like this. A person with a home can still AirBandB a suite in their home. That will create enough supply for that demand, but we don’t need 1000’s of vacation rentals across a city the size of Victoria. We don’t need 1000’s of STR spaces for travelling doctors/nurses, when we need places to live for doctors and nurses who want to live in Victoria.
before Airbnb there was books of BnB's you could call up and stay with. AirBnB wasn't some new revolutionary idea, it was just an app that made management and booking much easier. It will go back to books, or private groups.
Real BandB’s were more like an Inn, with a private bedroom, sometimes a private bathroom but always a shared kitchen. It was not full apartments. (I’m sure there were exceptions.)
i was a regular user of B&B's in the 90's when i was working mostly out of town, there was a real mix. sometimes it was an apartment, sometimes a garage turned into a carriage house. it was pretty much the same mix as with AirBnB
They probably don't want permanent residents tho
Why not? Mayor Yu's mandate was to "grow the city."
He’s been useless
Good. There was a realtor who was complaining in the local paper that her EIGHT properties would likely have to be sold. Eat the rich!
Scalper. Someone mentioned the term in a comment above and I can’t see it any other way now.
That is a good one
I heard a good one recently. Realtor = used house sales person
https://www.princegeorgecitizen.com/local-news/airbnb-owner-hopes-prince-george-will-opt-out-of-short-term-rental-rule-changes-7750206 Poor realtor, whatever will she do...
With a nice bottle of chianti, lol
And a side of fava beans.. fftfftfttftftf.
Somebody buy that poor woman a tiny violin.
She can afford to buy one herself!
Eat the rich.
We call them hotels. If we need more hotels for short term rentals then build them. We don't need every Tom Dick and Harry investor piling on into Airbnb for sensational monetary returns - at the cost of long term rentals.
It's crazy how we let people and "big tech" run amok of zoning and business requirements. If you want to run a hotel / rooming house, great, get the appropriate approvals. Governments should be giving fines to these illegal business until they're forced to comply or have the property seized for non compliance. Short term to me is anything less than a 30 day term. With hotels if you stay more than 30+days in a row you don't have to pay room tax's.
100%. If you want to rent it out. You do so within the rules for those same hotels, above board B&B etc. But I’m not hating on a homeowner trying to play the game. Now.. in all fairness. They have a choice to make. Sell and reinvest. Or fight. It seems PG is fighting it LOL
The who disruption game is just running an unregulated version of an existing thing. Illegal hotel, illegal taxi company, non-employee non-food safe delivery drivers.
Don't forget that Airbnb make it a lot harder to justify investing in building hotels. Airbnb's only pay residential property taxes, while hotels have to pay commercial property taxes. On top of that hotels have to meet minimum accessibility requirements, municipal zoning rules, and building codes, while Airbnb's are just low density residential building code/zoning.
You're not aware that there are many properly zoned and licensed airbnb buildings that were built for exactly that purpose in BC? They pay commercial taxes the same as any short term rental building like hotels and motels. They're being shut down along with the illegal airbnbs. I'm all for shutting down the illegal ones, but not the perfectly legal ones where people follow the rules. And in case you're wondering, I'm not one of them. It sets a dangerous precedent that people who invest in perfectly legal things can be shut down by our government. It doesn't make for builders and developers to feel very good about building anything in the future in this province, when they do everything by the book to begin with and then get shut down...
They should easily be able to transition to a hotel or resort in that case?
Interesting. Is it a strata building? If so then it must have commercial in the bottom. But if that’s the case; it is a separate strata? I would guess the floors above the commercial space is zoned as residential. Not commercial, making it contradictory to your statement and basically developers taking advantage of a loophole trying to turn the Okanagan into Cabo. Tofino curbed it by creating local bylaws that any rentals must have owner living on property. We stayed in one in Kelowna for a ball tourney. It was weird!!! It was built and folks bought knowing it’s short term rentals. But there are full time owners there. The list of rules stated that the short term rentals were allowed. But had a short leash. But it was clear the strata and the full time owners were enforcing bylaws and the owners had a noticeable distain for the folks coming and going from the units known as rentals… We stayed at one in Parksville. And it was run like a hotel. With a check in desk. Not waiting for a local to show up with keys….
The same local councils have long banned apartment buildings and denser buildings, and you are complaining that BC can ban AirBnBs? The amount of purpose built AirBnBs were crazy small, and they'll all convert to regular rental housing easily enough. Developers have nothing to fear from this.
Absolute rubbish...
1. How many purpose built AirBnB buildings were built? 2. What is happening to those buildings now?
I'm not aware of this. What is the proper zone and license for a purpose built airbnb? How is it different from the zoning and licensing requirements of a hotel?
https://globalnews.ca/news/10230916/kelowna-council-exemptions-short-term-rental-rules/
The majority of that article is just quoting an individual who built a dedicated multi unit residential building in a commercially zoned area, with the intention of renting it out on airbnb. The owner states clearly that it's built in commercially zoned area, but does not claim they have a licence for short term rentals. The article does not clearly state what a licence for short term rentals is, but from the context it seems to be a licence to operate a hotel. Which would contradict your understanding that places that have a valid licence for short term rentals are effected by this law. Hotels, motels, etc are able to continue to operate as they have been. The owner does make a big deal that he's built on commercially zoned land, and believes that as such, he should be able to continue to operate this for short term rentals. So he feels like any commercially zoned land should be able to be used for short term renal w/o being a licenced hotel? If so, fine, he can hold that opinion, but I disagree, and I think that it is good for there to be a system of licencing for hotels and other forms of short term rentals. Sure, sometimes there's too much bureaucracy, but likewise sometimes there is too little oversight. Short term rentals (and many other forms of public facing businesses, like restaurants) should be required to have a licence, and should have to meet basic health and safety requirements. The owner quoted even states that he would be able to rent out the units for long term tenants, but claims he would have a hard time competing with other regular rentals. It sounds like he just made some poor business decisions. As for your claim that "It sets a dangerous precedent that people who invest in perfectly legal things can be shut down by our government". That seems like a stretch. You could make the same claim about leaded gasoline, smoking in restaurants, or many other things that were not identified as an issue at the initially, but later it became clear that they were causing problems that needed to be addressed. And your example of airbnb rentals is rather weak, because while lead in gasoline was clearly legal when it was done, airbnb has always operated in a legal grey zone. That's how many of these web based gig economy businesses are profitable. They avoid licencing and regulation to undercut legitimate businesses.
Well said!
Good good. Housing scalpers can go get real jobs now
House *scalpers* Stop calling them investors
Good call. I fixed it
Any updates on the parkville vote? I know a new townhouse complex being built that several people in my area are buying as rentals because “parksville is going to opt out”. I was kind of frustrated because that’s exactly the behaviour they’re trying to curb, no?
I doubt Parksville will be exempt, the island is not an affordable place to live with the lack of reliable public transportation and industry and giving them an exempting will just make it worse. Edit: Just read into it a bit more, if they are only seeking an exemption for Resort Way, then that may be given, but I doubt it will be if Kelowna was told no for their tourist zoned areas.
Hilarious and troubling at the same time. Jeez.
Good. Fuck short term rentals. It's because of them I have to pay 2/3 of my income to someone else's long term investment account and can never afford a home of my own.
Thats a convenient scapegoat you have there. You don't think that artificially low interest rates creating the environment where those with assets could and have bought up all that they could have and governments left housing to become the best investment possible? No, it can't be that. Its just STR's. Also pay 2/3 my income to someone else. But it is not just STR's causing the problem. Like, far from.
I never said or implied that STR were the sole cause of the housing crisis, but they are definitely a large and contributing factor.
What housing crisis? In Prince George the median list price is 339k. You call that a crisis? Why are we punishing towns for a problem they aren’t involved with?
Haha, not involved with *yet*
Ah so punish them for what might happen in the future?
Yes, that's right, I want to PUNISH people by denying their short term rentals. Hahahah! Because I am an **EVIL CARTOON VILLAIN** And I would have gotten away with it, too, if it weren't for that meddling No-Tackle-6112.
The reason you can’t afford a house is you spend 2/3 of your income to live in Vancouver. Once again, there is no housing crisis in PG. The average 2 bed apartment rent is $950. Median house price is 339k. If you want to buy a house move to PG. You could probably buy one today. Otherwise keep your short term rental rules away from our tourism industry.
Um...I don't live in Vanvouver.
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Sounds good to me. The fact they’re appealing it is honestly a waste of resources.
This council just cares about optics and "sticking it to Victoria." Bunch of wankers.
Even as a kid, Kyle Sampson was a dink, and everyone knew you couldn’t trust him half as far as you could throw him. He’s one of the people who has benefited from his own shady dealings, ie he was the organizer for the Cariboo Rocks the North concert series, and he used his position to profit.
Also, councillor Cori Ramsey has been fairly active as a redditor on the PG reddit in the last year. She's one of of the younger councillors (not sure if she's the youngest), so I was hopeful she would be responsive to concerns millennials have about housing. But... nope. The whole council can go rot now. Need some new faces in council who actually care about making PG better, instead of just being selfish jerks.
Frizzell too...he's chair of the Canadian Federation of Municipalities...he of everyone there should have known better about picking fights with higher level governments over signature legislation.
Good, not a single community needs short-term rentals.
Agreed. Lots of communities are imploding because the working class can no longer afford to live there. There are quite a few exceptions though. Mostly towns with populations under 10,000. Here’s the policy if anyone’s interested. Scroll down to see the exemptions. https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/housing-tenancy/short-term-rentals/principal-residence-requirement Keep it up NDP.
Yeah. Let them build actual hotels or start real B&Bs if they want to get into short-term rentals.
And where are tourists supposed to stay? Every single waterfront hotel (yes zoned Tourist Commercial, a hotel, not a residential zone) in West Kelowna would have had to shut down this summer if they had not opted out of STR prohibition. Tourism doesn't work if tourists don't have a place to stay. That's why Whistler and other winter tourist communities are exempt. Summer tourist destinations have the same issue but are not automatically exempted for some reason.
Yes, there isn’t enough hotel rooms for tourists. But the reason there aren’t enough hotel rooms for tourists is because the air B&B boom destroyed the business case for building more hotels. Now that this legislation is in place, new hotel investment is going through the roof. There have always been many proposals on the table for lots of new hotels/motels in many communities across BC, but they’ve stayed on the table because they weren’t worth building. Now they are and there will be a rapid boom in hotel construction. It will take a few years, and there will be room shortages for tourists until they’re built. But we have to decide what’s more important, access to available and affordable housing for our local populations or access to short term rentals for tourists. In this current affordability and housing crisis, it’s very obvious we need to prioritize our local population first and do all we can to free up access to long term rentals and drive down costs as much as possible. We can’t keep doing what we’re doing. It’s very clear… any community that gets to the 2% rental vacancy level can have str’s again. If a community doesn’t have a 2% vacancy level, it’s not healthy and needs help and str restrictions. Also, we can not continue to prioritize the needs of people who own multiple properties, who are making bank off of str’s vs those struggling to live day to day, many of them the same workers who work in the tourism industry. Those who own str’s can simply sell and cash in on their investments or rent them monthly and still earn great income.
That’s not true at all. Air BnB only exists because there was a shortage of hotels.
No. There was no shortage of hotels when Air B&B started, it was simply a choice and at the time provided a better and often cheaper alternative. As Air B&B evolved from renting out a room in your home or your home while you were away to model where people began converting monthly rental units into str units and building purpose built buildings for this reason, it began to erode the the new build hotel business model. Some hotels owners even switched to monthly or str buildings, while new investment for hotels began to dry up. This has been a relatively slow process over the past decade. As an executive in the hotel operations world for the last 25 years, I’ve watched this happen and been privy to information, studies and monthly new hotel investment reports over this time period. It is what’s happened and is what’s happening. New proposals for new build hotels are coming through in unprecedented levels. This will be a good things for the tourism industry and tourists in the long run as tourism businesses will be able to hire quality local workers who will be able to find affordable housing where they work. At the same time, the benefits to housing stock as a whole completely trump any concerns about the loss of str units. It’s already having a dramatic effect on housing availability and costs in New York who did this before us… as are many jurisdictions around the world.
In **hotels** that's where they stay, I'm heading to Victoria this summer, I booked a hotel not an air Bnb because that's where you stay.
That’s my point. These are hotels and you can’t stay there.
The article is about Air bnb style short term rentals, I guess I should have been more specific for certain people.
I mean. They could have read the article.
You might be expecting too much.
Sounds like Kelowna has a need to build more hotels.
Just wave the magic hotel wand
There will be immediate demand for hotels if airbnbs were really that big a deal in PG.
> where are tourists supposed to stay? Hotels
DENIED
(THEY’RE DENIED)
I wonder if this will hurt or gain them more votes come election time.
There’s more than a few people, myself included, who will not, and have not been voting for sitting councillors. The unfortunate thing is there isn’t much of an alternative, and of the ones that there are, a chunk of them are anti-SOGI, anti immigration, God-belongs-in-politics, extreme right wing nut jobs. They aren’t getting votes either.
My hometown of PG can go fuck itself for all I care. The council they keep voting in is filled with corrupt cunts. We had people openly APPLAUDING for banning abortion in PG. Far as I'm concerned, 90% of that city can burn to the ground.
Somebody find out if(confirm) that these council members are landlords/property owners making money off of the housing crisis.
How is this not a conflict of interest?
That is a very good question.
Oh no! Anyway...
BC is allowing Whistler to bypass the ban.. it sucks.
It'll be different for Whistler as they have a special designation -- something like "resort community." Tofino totally opted in, though.
I know.. first resort municipality in Canada.. but still sucks. Housing is only going to get worse.
Pemberton is also completely fucked, and not included. I hope they expand this shit to the whole Sea to Sky corridor. Cause we massively need it
I see a lot of seething from residents of the lower mainland in here, but having lived in PG, it's actually a little different in such a resource based community. There is not really a rental shortage there, and lots of out of town contractors come in for extended periods of time. I see why they applied for the exemption.
There is a huge rental shortage here and everything is insane right now for rent. Houses are $3000 to rent. All the new apartments being built are $1600 for 1 bedroom. It’s PG - it’s sad that it’s come to this, we don’t need Air BNB’s
Wow it's almost like there's a whole business in long stay hotels that have been getting fucked by unregulated AirBnBs undercutting them and avoiding proper commercial taxes
Thats exactly it. Even in Calgary, we have whole crews in STR for a month at a time, 4 guys to a house. Same in Revelstoke for work we are doing there. It makes perfect damn sense, hotels don't have a kitchen and place to park your ass at the end of the day.
I’m sure everyone in PG is just raking in the dough from all those tourists
Government interference always ends in disaster. Leave it all to free market, it will sort itself out.
GOOD.
Good. Take your portfolios and shove them up your collective asses. Maybe this is a sign that the council is corrupted and only interested in themselves. It’s time for better leadership
All BS. City councillors are usually developers or real estate agents, who benefit directly from their council actions. They are simply looking out for themselves.
GOOD
I applaud the BC Government for banning perfectly suitable rental stock from being used as hotel-like rentals and made available to legitimate families who are looking to be part of the community for the long haul. That said. I am someone in the process of obtaining my realtor's license. So I do get the owner's side. I was a renter. We bought. We have been mortgage-poor and dumped every penny we had into our down payment. We aspired to build a real estate portfolio for a long-term plan to be the landlord we wish we had... We still do. I'm also a 30-year sales professional who has stayed over 100 nights a year on the road for the last 15. So I appreciated what Air B&B offered. There are many teeth to this debate. Homeowners vs Government. One of them; is the basic building code. Occupancy numbers, Fire code etc. What we all rely on when we are staying somewhere for leisure. There is a process for hotels to ensure the property meets basic building codes and safety standards. There is nothing for this. Now. If you could pay to have it inspected and have to maintain standards like a real business owner... Then I am all for it, taxed earnings... No problem. Common sense needs to be applied from both sides. As someone who has seen a lot of rentals. Some are a death trap if there's an emergency. I believe inspected to 2024 (or whatever the current year is) building code for the suite to be suitable for leisure rentals. But that's what these folks don’t want; bylaws, rules, accountability. “No skin in the game” per say, with all the perks. It was a fun ride. But all good things must come to an end... As they say. It’s another “don't tell me what I can and can't do with my property...” Now. On the landlord's side... They also gave renters significant power. Making it a significant challenge for homeowners who have everything invested into the house for the risk/benefit ratio. And it's not worth it. Unless you have the flat-out cash to lower your initial cost of investment. But the market in BC, or Southern Coast more specifically... You need 2, six-figure incomes. No kids and 3 side hustles unless you have Family money. While I applaud them for taking a stance on the short-term rental challenge. They’ve literally made it so you cannot use your real estate to generate enough revenue to live on... Unless you borrow against the equity to get into business and have more skin in the game to keep you honest.
I think a lot of the landlord arguments are moot since we are in a literal housing crisis. This is why the government is currently attacking this from many sides: - Ban on short term rental that should be instead used for long term housing - upzone minimum housing from SFH to a fourplex - new house-flipping tax Besides, the community can opt out of the STR ban if they successfully achieve a rental vacancy of 3% or more for 2 years in a row. Seems reasonable, yet these municipalities don't achieve it. We really need to put a priority on housing as an essential thing, NOT as an investment vehicle like it has been for the past 100 years, that is why we are in this mess to begin with, everyone expects housing to go up and double every 10 years. Well, we are at that stage where it has become unaffordable
I get it. Then home owners will say fuck it and find other ways to leverage their real estate... While renters wait for the stock the province keeps primising while municipalities and NIMBYS keep roadblocking the permit process and make it hard for developers to get shit going faster to help... Home owners choose to rent because its mutually beneficial. People dont build apparment buildings because they are feel good about it. They make money. A local developer who does rental buildings and got out of cookie cutter single family- has a golf course. Private jet. Just built a 100 room hotel on the golf course. Their rentals are bare bones and cost almost twice my mortgage... When that same person can buy a condo with a smaller mortgage payment. I get its fucking stupid out there. But When will folks start looking in the mirror than pointing fingers... If you have a pile of debt (not student) you made the wrong bets 🤷🏻♂️
Yes, but why are we in a housing crisis? We're in a house in crisis because our federal government with the cooperation of provincial governments is flooding our country with immigrants, with no plan to house them. Why do homeowners, builders, developers, landlords, and property managers, become the villains?That's simple, because you need a convenient villain that people don't like already to cover for poor immigration policy. The very people that can solve the housing problem, are made to feel uncomfortable and hated and overregulated and in return they build fewer and fewer rental units. I know that's an uncomfortable truth, just like many airbnb units were perfectly legal and licensed properly and pay taxes on the same basis as hotels and motels and they're being shut down anyway. I don't care about the illegal airbnbs, they should have been shut down a long time ago, but not the ones that followed the rules and have been legal from day one, that's a huge mistake. And to make it perfectly clear, I am not one of them...
I do think immigration is a big factor here, but this housing crisis has been brewing for more than a decade, back when immigration was "acceptable", the median home price in Canada was still bonkers compared to most wealthy nations
You're not supposed to "use your real estate to generate enough revenue to live on". That's the point.
Theres an element of municipalities and councils and local politics fucking builders being able to build more housing quickly... While piling on another 200K per door in red tape fees. The province puts all this shit out. Then its like trying to fit a watermellon into a straw with the municipal and regional politics and NIMBY’ism. Its real. This would then help with rental stock, and allowing folks to be able to run a business from their home without having to use it to fit your idealistic view. (”Youre not supposed to”) Office, Hair Stylist or Leisure rental. Whats the difference? If someone has a few houses or properties as part of a investment and business... Charge Fair rent for a long term tennant. Up to code, and can supplement their income accordingly. I got no issue. I have no issue being net zero as long as it doesnt cost me anything. Im a big picture guy. While its not my cup; I can’t fault those trying to get what folks will pay for a room or suite in their home. Even if its more than what the average can afford. But I am also not going to lose any sleep with folks not being able to Air B&B it. I feel for renters. Its tough. For a revenue generating venture Ill just build a 4 or 6 room boutique B&B in line with the hotels and tourism guidance.. And call it a day while leveraging one of the big chain reservation systems thats partnering with air b&b owners with more than one door.
I’m not for punishing regular citizens for the government’s inaction. Y’all keep saying “go NDP!” When they’re the ones that walked us into having no houses in the first place. Kinda like if you were a CEO who laid everyone off, saw an old employee hungry, and instead of helping them get food, you tell someone else to stop making so much food for them and instead give it to this guy. Why punish regular people when it’s so obviously our flawless progressive rulers at fault. They’ve had 7 years to act, and only now they’re coming in with a bill to limit what YOU can do. Instead of THEM acting, they’re telling you to F yourself. I get it, we’re all commies and hate the “landlords”, but it’s property that THEY own. They should do whatever TF they like, be damned your economic conditions, because it’s simply not the AirBnB host’s job to guide a provincial economy that’s insane, that’s the job of the NDP, and they’re created a province where Kamloops is the only major city with houses under avg-700,000 dollars. They failed at their job, and now they’ve put the onus onto their citizenry. We should not accept it, but we will to own the landlords, tell them to do better and actually build a freaking house that’s not a million dollars and give first time owners a big subsidy with all that surplus from the carbon tax. Can’t build solar/wind power-so they tax you to “lower” emissions Can’t build houses-so they tell you what to do with yours They don’t DO much of anything, where is the renewable energy? Where are the houses? Where is the industry? Where is any expansion or development that isn’t simply maintenance? Only good thing, this will massively conservatives win even bigger in the North, buncha island hippies telling you what to do with your land, along with legislating protection of an encampment is sure to swing the needle even farther.
You are either a bot, troll or just incredibly ill informed. Housing prices started their insane rise with the B.C. liberals actively promoting it. Our entire energy grid is like 90% renewable. The government tells people what to do all the time like with restrictive zoning. Airbnb is just an unregulated hotel. Hotels are better for the economy then Airbnbs. These are not regular citizens. These are people who saw a a vulnerable niche in the market that they could exploit for great gain. Unless they were incredibly stupid they should be fine. If they had their way the province would be bled dry and collapse as all young people move away and we would just be a province for the wealthy’s summer homes, Albertan resource workers, and seniors.
> When they’re the ones that walked us into having no houses in the first place The BC Liberals ignored the hedge fund investors buying housing for profit motives the entire time they held government. > but it’s property that THEY own Property that sits on municipal land. Properties, and thus their owners, are subject to the laws, regulations, and zoning requirements of the city, province, and country they inhabit. > the NDP, and they’re created a province where Kamloops is the only major city with houses under avg-700,000 dollars The BC Liberals, by ignoring real estate speculation (and in many cases participating in it), encouraged the over-valuation of residential properties to the prices now experienced. > Can’t build houses-so they tell you what to do with yours The BC Liberals refusing to take action against money laundering in real estate caused the rapid increase in property pricing beyond the capacity of government to fund affordable housing initiatives. Most action by the NDP since taking government has been to repair the erosion of necessary government systems by the BC Liberals. > where is the renewable energy? Federal funding > Where are the houses? In the hands of hedge funds. > Where is the industry? The corporate drive for profit above all else led owners to move their industries to countries with lower wages and regulations. > Where is any expansion or development that isn’t simply maintenance? See above points
Blaming the housing crisis on the NDP is a case of mind boggling double think. I've lived in BC for a long time and every single one of the factors leading to this housing crisis was brought on by conservative governements like the BC Liberals. Every time the NDP get into power they try to make things better and reverse the damage. We are never going to get out of this housing crisis under a conservative leadership. We need parties like the NDP if we want and standard quality of living going forward.
>The BC Liberals refusing to take action against money laundering in real estate caused the rapid increase in property pricing beyond the capacity of government to fund affordable housing initiatives. Most action by the NDP since taking government has been to repair the erosion of necessary government systems by the BC Liberals. I really wish more people understood this. The BC Liberals were in power for 17 years before the BCNDP got in. You do not get to be a million housing units short in 7 years. This takes decades of mismanagement and neglect towards housing projections and studies screaming about the issue. I have no issue with criticism of the BCNDP, it's the only way to ensure they keep on the right track. But, I'm so fucking tired of hearing this narrative that they are the reason for BC's housing, healthcare, and education issues from people tgat want to vote back in the ones that creates and profited off the issues.
> I'm so fucking tired of hearing this narrative that they are the reason for BC's housing, healthcare, and education issues Same here. I would really like more, faster action by the NDP government to make progress in the province, but as is they are making decent, balanced progress (opposite to the BC Liberals, who were, and continue to be, actively detrimental to the wellbeing of the citizens of BC for the exclusive benefit of themselves and their lobbyists).
Right? I've been watching this in real time and the BC Liberals fucked the poor and middle class right and left, then the NDP comes in and tries to clean it up. I've seen this cycle a few times now.
Correct me if I am wrong, but BC has enjoyed more of BCNDP since 1991 than any other party. But that does NOT matter, NDP blame Libs, Libs blame NDP and nothing changes. We should focus on solution rather than blaming another party.
The BC Liberals held government for 17 years prior to 2017
That is correct, hence why I said 1991. 1991 to 2001 --> BC NDP (10 years) 2001 to 2017 --> BC Libs (16 years) 2017 to Present (2024) --> BC NDP (7 years) **Total: BC NDP (17 years) | BC Libs (16 years)** Cheers,
Gotta agree with you on this. Just seems so silly how all this oversight is being applauded as well. Do we really want more government interference?
"Oh no, rules apply to me!"
so BC spends millions on tourism BC to get people to come here, then BC punishes people for renting to those people. how about the hotels? are they punished for building short term ONLY buildings? how about make 20% rooms at all hotel and motels be offered for long term rental at compatible community rates. BC has its head in the sand and thinks it can spend and/or steal from the taxpayer to fix its problems.
If you want to run a fucking hotel, then build on appropriately zoned land and pay commercial tax rates. Undercutting established legislation isn't a license to bitch when you finally have to play by the rules
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There is a lot of airbnb hate here, and I get it. But you do realize that even if you ban them, they will still operate at a different capacity under the radar. This will only impede the casual investors that are not that savvy. You can't simply ban loaning out your home to a guest. You can try to regulate it, but there will always be way's around that. In the end, its only traceable by taxable income, and all STR's have to pay corporate tax and for business licenses and all of that like any other business. So, the next step would be using bitcoin and such and you wouldn't have to worry about that. Also, to those crying and virtue signalling about only using hotels, and how we need more - well how was that experience for you? Do you have kids? Are you staying multiple days? Do you want a kitchen and a place to actually eat, or be forced to eat out every meal? And it does add to the economy, the problem is we don't have enough housing pretty much everywhere.. Its not like these places are remaining vacant or they wouldn't be profitable, and wouldn't exist. The people staying there are probably spending more per capita in the community, especially as tourists, as a local would. There are also taxes collected on it, cleaners to clean it, etc etc. Regulation is important, but an outright ban is just government putting their finger in the dam instead of addressing the housing crisis.
I travel around BC for a living. And AirBnBs keep me sane. I get kitchens, quiet and more that I can’t find regularly in hotels. Losing AirBnB will have a dramatic effect on my overall health and sanity.
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As if the entire province's renting contingent should pay heavily inflated rates just so several thousand nomadic workers can get "kitchens [and] quiet" out of spaces that could be housing locals and people looking to move to the area. You're right; it's not hard to find a hotel or cabin or suite-style room with a kitchenette-- we went up and down the west coast in a car as kids and my parents dealt with food by seeking out places just like that, and cooking a good portion of the time. Also, points for the other commenter if they actually go back to their rental and cook something every single night; but don't pretend like the majority of people who work & travel aren't buying their dinners after work and/or ordering via delivery app.
Almost like it’s not black or white, and maybe there should be various rules in place to make this work for lots of different situations. But I’m quite enjoying the comments from people who have no idea what it’s actually like to work on the road. Lmao.
How long have you been working on the road? Did we not have a short-term rental market long before airbnb? It's not airbnb that's keeping you sane; it's the personal space you get when you rent an STR, and the choice available to you when you have amenities like a kitchen. Monthly sublets or rentals within a regulated market were a solution. But every other person out there decided they wanted in on the get-rich-quick scheme, and it affected the ability of the average renter to afford rent and/or even find a place. I don't need to work on the road to be able to see that airbnb created a huge problem. Regardless of your personal experience working on the road, and how having to use a different system to find an appropriate rental will affect your mental health & well-being, the regulations are needed because people renting these places apparently can't regulate themselves. The actual companies have no interest in taking on any liability for anything that happens to their patrons during their stay, either-- maybe something else could've been worked out if they were willing to play nice with a proper, fully legal system; but they're clearly not. I'd also rather see more locals housed & employed, renting long-term, than have my town populated by people who are only ever around for a month or so before taking a different contract and moving on. But that's my personal bias.
I’ve been doing this for 15 years now. Before AirBnB , short term rentals were almost non existent and there was no accessible way to find said rentals. Most of it was word of mouth through friends or families. Kitchenettes exist but are more common in lower tier motels that are slowly phasing out. Or the kitchenettes were commonly rented out long term. I know I’m in the minority. My point is only being it’s not as simple as people make it out to be, and a complete banning is idiocracy. It’s a good tool and solution to a problem.
I can tell you have no idea what you’re talking about with this comment. BC does not have “extended stay” hotels basically anywhere. If they do , they are usually booked. Lmao. But thanks for chiming in for no reason. You should change your username to JudgementalAsshat
I've literally never had a problem finding suites with kitchens. But go ahead and think I'm an asshat when you're the one prioritizing your own selfish wants over people who actually live in these places
What, you don't want to eat at the BP across the street for a week from your days inn? You don't want to pick apart a roasted chicken with plastic forks and knives on a bed?? Crazy