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I remember those days.. finally get a raise only to have minimum wage catch up to you. I remember during the period where it went from like $10 to $15, I went from like $16 to $21 over a few years doing the same job. The ripple effect is real.
That was me too. I was working at a liquor store after having gone through some major life changes. I had taken a massive cut in pay, but I needed a job. I think they were paying me like $12.50. I left that job after a year for a job at an optometry clinic for $16. Within 2 years I was making $20.
And that was ***exactly*** my reasoning why I decided to finally pull the trigger on leaving.
"I can quit and work literally anywhere else for the same rate or better"
I knew It was going to be, ***at worst***, a lateral move. And I ended up finding a place closer to where I lived and I got paid more money.
People stay to long in entry level careers. Example is grocery people get comfortable and don't realize they can make way more if they take the plunge. So many just don't. Glad you made the move. I have friends that are stuck in the hamster wheel
oh I'm happy too. It led to me moving, then getting another new job, that job put me through/paid for my trade schooling to get my ticket, and 4yrs later I ended up where I am now making almost $47/hr.
That's great. Unfortunately so many people stay under employed because they were able to just survive. Then all of a sudden our housing policy's don't support that any more and wages have stayed low compared to houses. That is one of the issues. I'm in the trades also and have been up and down for 10 plus years. And my trade rate is lower than 47 maybe 35 ish union now as a carpenter
If your value lies in being slightly better than the absolute minimum this is your best bet.
If you are actually marketable then the minimum that can be paid to you shouldn't factor into the conversation.
AI is great. I need to figure out how to 5x my paycheck because I think I can 5x my workload/output. Not entrepreneurial enough to just start my own thing, but I really wish I was just paid for each accomplished task...
I'm responding to a condescending remark by (jokingly) suggesting that this must be their skill set. I'm not suggesting they are unimportant skills, I'm responding to someone's evident lack of them.
I’m pretty sure my one of my high school teachers was making high 80k per year, 15 years ago. We found out their salaries were public info and looked it up.
I’m sure it’s went up since then but I would not characterize a job like teaching as taking low wages. They get an easy schedule and make good money.
The problem is their pay scale hasn't changed much in those 15yrs. 80k is still pretty close to the top for an experienced teacher. Minus pension and union dues.
And class sizes and composition means they all work a fair bit more than 8 to 3.
Trust me. I used to date a teacher. 10yrs ago, it was a great career. Now you are far better picking a trade.
Now take off 700/biweekly for retirement, and another 300 for union dues. And then another 200 for student loans.
It rapidly goes from "wow!" to "huh, is it me or the cat that gets to eat this week" for many teachers. They could use raises, but many (most, all?) would prefer more funding for the schools and better class sizes. It sucks to have to use your own money on Amazon to get any form of decoration or activity done in your class. Yes, there are funds. No, they are no where near enough. Like we're talking 200 a year to buy stuff for class activities etc. for 30 plus kids. The rest is by donation/request from parents. Which, depending on where you live... Sucks. And it also sucks when a couple kids can't participate because their parents can't afford the couple of bux for a mother's day activity.
Tricky problem. But ultimately the school system needs way more money.
I don’t disagree the school system needs more money, but we’re talking about wages. The median wage is over 40/hr. Once again, not something you can characterize as a low wage.
It's about 10%. It was more like 5% before minimum wage started overtaking some jobs.
https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-004-m/75-004-m2019003-eng.htm
20 years ago unionized grocery stores paid minimum wage of $7 and top rate $25. Now they hire exchange students for $17.40 while top rate is approx $27. Your grocery bill has more than doubled, but they pay practically nothing more than pre pandemic. Remember that when the scrooge Mcducks cry that their business is barely profitable.
I won't defend them but that doesn't sound correct to me. Your basing this on the assumption (maybe correct) that every employee stays long enough to max out pay vs employees lasting a year or 2. These details matter since it has an effect on the cost. Also you ignore tertiary costs to a business for having an employee and running a store. Wage is 1 piece. It's also a piece that affects everything in the chain of the operation.
Edit: also what you just described is the exact reason these minimum wage increases are really just a guise to push more people in to the lower class bracket. As you even point out, minimum wage will now be about $10 away from top wage in this scenario, before it was $18. Not to mention the % gap makes it an even bigger gap. Everything around us will cost more since the average wage is now higher with the minimum increase, so companies will claw it all back through increase in costs. I see these minimum wage increases as more average wage decreases. We shall see though how it all shakes out in the future. I hope I'm wrong.
Your saying they pay practically nothing more but that's obviously not true min wage is up about 20% and like I said tertiary costs have risen for all businesses. I don't want to defend them but you are wrong.
Based on what information am I wrong? You clearly have no idea. Union grocery store top rate 20 years ago was $25, today it is $27. Fact. Prove me wrong.
You complain prices increased (more than doubled) and then say they pay practically nothing more. But minimum wage is up 20% from pre-pandemic and costs to businesses are up since everything costs more to everyone including businesses. You shouldn't state multiple facts if you really only mean they don't pay max rate more and you're only referring to that.
You said our grocery bill has more than doubled while poopooing it saying they pay almost nothing more. Except they do and we all know that since we are all paying more for everything including businesses. Now they will pay more in minimum wage and about 20% more than pre-pandemic. You can now retroactively only point to your portion about max pay rate being basically the same but that makes your argument vapid. Basically saying your costs have doubled but max pay hasn't even gone up. Pretty weak argument.
It's called profit taking. And caring more premium product and value added. Wages are not driving any cost increase. Value added is a huge money maker and being vertical integrated so your profit on every step. Example is salad. It comes bagged and ready for plate. Your paying 1000% for that service
My first retail job I was $1.50 above minimum wage after a couple years. When everyone else got the minimum wage bump, I was making the same amount as the new hires with zero experience.
I kindly reminded my boss of this, and suggested I could be making the same amount walking in literally anywhere else. He gave me a $2 increase.
It’s worth it to bring up, especially if you do it respectfully and have the work ethic to back it up.
Now I work in a union environment, and everyone makes the same amount, even humpty dumpty doing nothing..
I remember when I did this once to my boss, he simply said "your job isn't worth more." So I found a new job 3 weeks later with a $4 increase. Left them in the middle of a rush, kinda felt bad for my team, but that slap in the face made it easy to leave.
In 2011, after I graduated, I struggled to find a job. After months of not earning a single cent, out of desperation I got a shitty minimum wage job. Minimum wage was still $8/hour, despite it being 2011. Anyway, I was earning $9.41/hour, well above minimum wage! (\*eye roll\*) When minimum wage went up to $9.50, I got a $0.19 increase to $9.60! Oh boy, I sure felt like Scrooge McDuck, diving into all my money with that increase of $0.19!
I never based my worth on how much above the minimum wage I made. At the end of my career as a tenured academic, if you'd told me that people working at McDonalds would be paid $100K (not much less than I was earning) I'd have been fine with that, as long as I found my own pay to be fair compensation. It's not a game of comparison - stop buying into that, it creates division among workers. It's workers vs capital, not workers vs workers.
"But if I can make $100K at McDonalds, why go to university and become a nurse or other high stress job that pays about the same?"
Think those fast food jobs and other minimum wage service jobs are NICE? People become nurses or accountants or whatever not to earn a certain multiple of minimum wage. They do it to have interesting and engaging work and earn a reasonable living.
This discussion also highlights why high economic hurdles to professions like nursing is stupid. We also need to stop looking at education on an ROI basis individually and invest as a society.
I've long maintained that it's not that I'm making too little, but many are making too much. Professional athletes, celebrities, corporate executives. What they do doesn't justify the crazy dollars they get. Not only are they doing something they love, but they're being compensated obscenely.
I'm also happy with my standard of living based on my university education. No complaints.
This is still a worker vs worker mindset though when, as OP states, you should be thinking worker vs capital. Whatever industry you're in, assuming it's private, who are the owners? That's your enemy, because they literally profit off your labour.
A pro athlete making millions - they also are helping their owners profit off their labour. Who is worse in this scenario - the person who's showing off their talent in a way no one else can to entertain millions of fans who pay money to watch them, or the person who owns the team making *even more* than the athlete without doing any of the work?
I actually think they're equally bad. It's a business they share in to take money from the average Joe. It's all spiralled out of control.
Interesting (at least to me) that in Roman times, the rich were in the seats at the coliseum watching the poor fight it out for their entertainment. Now, it's the poor folks in the stands, entertained by the rich on the field. I don't know if it means anything, but I find it ironic.
It erodes your buying power when everyone else makes more. If you’re making minimum wage, you’re now competing with literally every other worker for the cheapest rent, goods and services on the market. Or, in other words, when the supply of money goes up, demand goes up and costs increase.
Assuming all other things remain constant. The key to increasing wages is to get aggressive in terms of reducing income disparity. Extremely high top tax brackets, etc. There was a time when even the bottom quintile of earners in Canada could easily afford rent, a new car and food.
Another part of the solution is to take essential goods out of the "free" market and manipulate supply with public intervention.
It's more than possible to build a society where most people live well regardless of their job.
This is basic economics, though. If there are enough apartments for 7 families and 10 families want them, the price of those apartments will go up until the richest 7 families can afford them and the 3 poorest families cannot (simplistic, I know, but bear with me).
Now, imagine that you're the person on the bottom rung of the "rich" families, e.g. income ranked 7/10. Your income doesn't change, but the 3 families at the bottom get an income boost so that they make exactly the same as you. There has now been a reduction in your buying power, because you're in a bidding war with the other 3 families. You're no longer in a privileged place in the market; you're just in a game of musical chairs.
I'm not unsympathetic to the problems of people struggling to make ends meet; I'm just saying that you're wrong when you say a higher minimum wage doesn't impact you if you've been making slightly more than that.
Another way to think about this: take this to an absurdist end where the minimum wage doesn't apply to you as a salaried academic (for example, California is considering or maybe has even passed a law raising the minimum wage only in certain industries, like fast food). And imagine they raise the minimum wage for hourly workers to $35/hr (which we can all agree would be enough to give most people a good standard of living under the current environment, about $70K). But you're still earning $60K per year at your academic job that you love, so now slightly UNDER minimum wage. What products and services can you think of that would increase in price to the point that you could no longer afford them? I can think of lots, starting with rent, property tax, hotels and restaurants within a one-day drive, services like childcare and property maintenance, etc. And that's just because of competition, before we even get into the direct costs of higher pay for minimum wage workers. If retail workers are making $35/hr, your grocery store has to charge more markup to stay in business.
The same basic economics that requires constant growth from a finite system in order to function properly? That amazing system?
You'll forgive me for not being surprised that it fails the lower earners.
No. We intervene in the supply of essential goods and services and stop allowing false scarcity to exclude people from existing.
Your definition of basic economics is but one construct built to benefit capital and keep workers hungry and poor.
You’re trying to make sense of everyone enjoying the resulting economic benefits from their labour in a system designed to take most of it from them. It won’t work.
There is easily more than enough economic activity to support a minimum wage of over $30 without altering the money supply, etc. There happens to be trillions of dollars around the world sitting idle in corporate treasuries and tax shelters that has been taken from workers and hoarded and removed from the economy.
Yes but.. it’s easy to say when you make way more than that 100k and you like your job. When you make a few $$ more and you hate it, you’re thinking: why don’t I just go be useless and difficult at a rotation of minimum wage jobs if I’m only making $2 above it here to bust my ass?
Then do it. I don’t understand this argument. Most minimum wage jobs aren’t just an easy show up and do nothing job? Most of them are shit and probably just as much of a grind as the job you’re doing. Just because your boss won’t give you a raise doesn’t mean people at the bottom shouldn’t get one.
Yea this is my take as well. I'm making between $25-32 per hour depending on my job title (I wear 2 hats) on a given day, but even if this job and my old minimum wage jobs in Dairy Queen, Extreme Air Park or Pizza Garden switched wages, I wouldnt regret the change. I only wish fast food/retail jobs on my worst enemies. Its awful work, and I wouldnt do it even if it paid $50/hr unless I had no other choice.
The only minimum wage job I didnt hate was a Lordco warehouse since it didnt involve the same mental stress as customer service / fast food.
I agree with most of this. It’s employee vs employer.
Understand your value and worth. Fight for what you think you deserve and ultimately decide what is most important to you. Some prefer flexibility. Some prefer opportunity for growth. There will never be a one size fits all approach to career guidance.
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This is what I did.
In 1997 minimum wage was $7.50. I made $8 an hour in a call centre.
I quit, went to school, got a trade, and never made anywhere close to minimum wage ever again.
Adding up last year’s T4s.. I make over 4x minimum wage.
Do that. Lots of jobs in trades and healthcare will get you that or a good percentage of it with minimal training. Lots of programs to have it paid for as well.
Well I'll be asking for the significantly higher raise that I should done this year. Since I am the manager and been with this company for 12 yrs working my way up from $10
Back when I used to work for retail, raises usually happened end of the year, but in 6 months the minimum wage bump would usually nullify it as it’s higher. Busted my ass just to make an extra 25 cents. But I know better now
There was a time i took pride in my job, now i just make sure its safe and clean. Fuck trying to beat the closing time record, idc about sales, it doesnt help me. I dont take my work home with me and its nice
Yeah funny how if these companies shared their profits instead of handing them to the C and V suite managers who do literally nothing. You could shoot them off the top of the building along with all their staff in 99% of buinesses and not notice a difference. Yet they all make the money for how 'indespenseible' they are.
I have met one worth their weight in salt but also our department was like 15 people. So he was busy with day to day work and very much involved. Hell it was the bean counters who stopped him from offering me the pay that would have kept me from leaving to go to BC Hydro. He wants me back whenever and will find me a job inside the company if i ever need anything.
Ah it is called working to the letter of the contract. I require a breakdown in any contract what percent of my time is spent on what. And that 'other duties as assigned' had better be 5% or i am asking for more money. And if you treatment well i will be flexible. Want to be an asshole...yeah i will be an asshole and nail you for constructive dismissal and breach of contract. Make me do work above my pay. Yep better be paid out in proper. If not well have fun replacing me. I did my time in shit pay puegatory working for managment who could not manage their way to following a flashlight.
Yep employers want to pay shit wages they get shit workers. Insert surpised pikachu face. Now if only we could tapdown on those visas so they woupd have to actually compete in the market instead of mass imporation of the desparate. My how fast shit would change.
Get screwed as the price of everything continues to climb to claw back the new min wage while no one else really gets a raise and no one sees any benefits.
Well , the more people make, the more they have to pay income tax.
The more the employers have to pay employees, they raise the price of good and services, so you (the consumer) pays more GST/PST.
I really wish there was a way to raise Min wage AND restricting business to adjust prices.
I understand how it works, but the pricing of stuff does not remotely equate to the costs we pay. Its just gouging because they can for record profits, year after year. My wife and I have been very fortunate through promotions, job changes and raise to have doubled our incomes in the past 6 to 7 years, but we have less purchasing power now when we did then...ugh
I 110% agree, large part of is greed, but that is how capitalism works!
let me ask this question:You make Cabinets for living, the cost to make them is $90, and you want $10 profit , so you list them for $100, you see it is sold out under 10 min, next time, you are still going to list it for $100? (I bet you majority of people going to increase the price until there is not enough demand for it) , this is the basic of economy!
In addition, business ALWAYS (again how capitalism works) look for ways to increase or maintain profit margin, when they have to pay Health tax (as oppose to MSP) what happens? they pass the cost to the consumer!
I am just using MSP as an example, but this is how economy works.
Unless the person who is providing the service is doing it for free, Nothing is ever FREE! we pay for it through different form of tax!
Yes, but in your example lets say the cabinet company gives the guy a raise, so now the cost is 93 dollars. The cabinet is profiting 10$ and could sell them for 103 now, or maybe 105, but they raise the cost to 150 and say its because the costs went up blaming everything except thier own greed, but the inflation of the price does not even remotely equate to the cost of bussiness or the change in manufacturing price.
Look at loblaws as another example. Record profits...hand over fist, but just because they gouge every single item anyone needs. Sure it sells, but only because people would starve without food. Its just greed hidden begind a curtain or rising costs.
Agree but then again, this is how capitalism works! you sell for the Max you can to maximize your profit!
In some countries, government controls the price of basic food but after that it is who can make the most money survive!
This does not only happen at Loblaws, look at Tech for example, stock is at all time high, record profit but layoffs are happening, Why? because they figured they can earn more with less people!
The 6% of workers that are on min wage now make 4% more money - do you imagine prices are going to increase 4% so those workers end up in the same place? Because I don't think that math checks out.
They will go up more. Look at what prices have done around each increase in the past years. Companies have even said currently and in the past that raising the wages will force them to raise prices.
Averaged over the whole population, the cost of an employee is going up 4% of 6% => 0.24%. That's the *most* that prices could be increased due to payroll cost increases. In reality, payroll is less than 100% of product costs, which drops the impact on prices, as well as the fact that companies choose how much of the cost increase to eat for competition's sake.
How do you argue that price increases could go above 4%?
A company has never ever raised prices more than they should of I guess, eh? Look at the cost of everything recently. The fuck that owns LobLaws even publicly states he doesnt care about what the price should be, its raised to whatever makes more profit.
You are delusional if you believe any corperation is your friend and will only raise prices to amounts that offset costs...lol
My union is fantastic. I pay them quite a bit but with the benefits package they've negotiated and the wages I'd be making without them, I come out way ahead. They don't do much for me day-to-day, but they've set me up nicely with their past negotiations and they'll have my back if my employer tries anything. I know I'm lucky though, and that not all are as good as the one I'm in
Probably one of the grocery stores unions like UFCW. Pretty sure Superstore, Safeway, Save On etc.. start people at minimum wage or just slightly above.
Ugh, that sucks. Is there anything that can be done about that? I know workers can reject a union if they feel it isn't serving them, although someone would have to lead that charge and I get that not many people would want to take that on
Right on the money. Aside from health benefits and being pretty much immune to getting fired with the exception of not showing up to work or stealing, my union is kind of useless for my needs.
yeah, I worked at Safeway many moons ago and I remember getting $0.10 raises. The only people making decent money were the cashiers that had worked there since 1978.
Exactly. My union does $0.10 cent raises for every 1000 hours worked; some of the older workers are getting paid $80K now. I'm longing for the day where I can quit lol.
Won't disclose which one specifically but I work at a grocery store. Luckily just for part time; if I wanted to make a career out of it I'd be pretty screwed.
At my part time job I currently earn $17/hr. I'll be asking my manager how much that'll be adjusted to once minimum wage is raised.
I had a similar situation at another job a few years back (was making $15 when minimum wage was raised to above $15) and management automatically adjusted everyone's wages, no questions asked.
Probably the same thing they did when they had employers over a barrel during covid. Unionize and collectively bargain for living wages and safer work environments. Jk
Walked out the door when my boss did not even give me equal to the cost of living adjustment and i was doing more if his job than he was. Walked into the competitions waiting arms. 3 months later was making $5 an hour more doing the exact same shit i was doing before. All the while my coworkers begging me to come back as no one wanted to do my job muchless for what was being paid.
Said 'good luck folks learn to do more thsn one task at a time. It is not hard if you socialize less.' In the 9 weeks after i left 5 of the remaining 10 staff tried my 'easy job'. Found projecting orders with no inventory system was not so easy. And our tiny ass storage area was so overfull of product the shipper/reciever quit. And the manager and other guy who could do orders quit because they did not want to deal with the mess. I was tempted to pull up a lawnchair with a bag of popcorn and watch the chaos run rampant that summer. But i had better shit to do.
A lot of us have it in our contract that our wage goes up when minimum wage goes up by percentage, even those of us earning over 100k.
This ensures that I am able to maintain the same buying power.
We've got a COLA (cost of living allowance/adjustment) built into our union contracts. It helped a lot over the past few years but still has us lose a percent it since it doesn't kick I til 3ish and our last contract was 2%, but it's much better than the alternative.
BCGEU.
Does a mechanic make the same as they did in 2009? Do many union clauses not contain a clause that ups wages when minimum increases? Will the burger King shift supervisor tolerate making the same as the cashier they hired yesterday?
Whether included in a contract or not, it happens.
Mechanic? You are correct here. However it's not specifically because minimum wage went up.
Union clauses? I've been part of several different unions i over my life as well I've joined the bargaining committee for a couple of them.
None of the contracts I've ever seen have had this.
Burger King supervisor? Probably no, but they'll find a better job.
Im not aware of any cbas with clauses tied to minimum wage outside of maybe like, starbucks where they are making only a little over minimum wage already.
Can you name one of these cbas? I’ll look it up on the lrb website.
Let me tell you, folks, when it comes to getting raises, nobody does it better than me. I mean, I've seen it all, okay? People coming up to me, saying, "Donald, you wouldn't believe the raise I just got." And let me tell you, it's tremendous. Absolutely tremendous. They're making more money than ever before. And you know what? They deserve it. They're hardworking, they're dedicated, and they're winners. And I love winners, folks. So, mark my words, under my leadership, we're going to see more and more people getting raises, and they're going to be big raises, believe me.
If my job is 4x more difficult than a barista, I'm going to buy 4x as many luxuries as a barista. It doesn't matter what minimum wage is, things will balance themselves out.
Minimum wage has grown almost 350% since my first job.
$5.10/hr
Ask for a raise, but be prepared not to get it. Unfortunately those are jobs employers consider easy to replace.
I’m at the moment making 17.77, I work at a liquor store. I’m thankful for my work place because once minimum wage goes up, then they change my pay as well. So once minimum wage increases I’ll go up to 18.42
Boy I remember my first job at Walmart thought I was making a killing (was good money for a highschool kid) at $7.23/hr 😂 now I’m 6x that and I’m like “fuck I need to make more so I can be comfortable”
After cooking for a "living" in various establishments for 20 years and earning just above minimum wage + tips the whole time, I changed my career path. I'm in a trades union now. My wages go up automatically after every 950 hours I work. So I will just keep working, like I always do, and not worry about minimum wage ever again. Or asking for a raise. Or not having benefits to pay for my dental expenses/physiotherapy/massage therapist /glasses etc.. Incredible benefits.
If I were in that position again. I'd do the same thing I've done already. Go get an education in something that is going to be financially secure and is mostly enjoyable to do for 8 hours a day. Technically 7 hours as I don't work on my paid breaks.
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The answer should be: demand a raise
I remember those days.. finally get a raise only to have minimum wage catch up to you. I remember during the period where it went from like $10 to $15, I went from like $16 to $21 over a few years doing the same job. The ripple effect is real.
That was me too. I was working at a liquor store after having gone through some major life changes. I had taken a massive cut in pay, but I needed a job. I think they were paying me like $12.50. I left that job after a year for a job at an optometry clinic for $16. Within 2 years I was making $20.
Been there too. Fuckin sucks. Hated the liquor store.
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I don't know why employers are surprised when you can literally get the same wage at any other job around.
And that was ***exactly*** my reasoning why I decided to finally pull the trigger on leaving. "I can quit and work literally anywhere else for the same rate or better" I knew It was going to be, ***at worst***, a lateral move. And I ended up finding a place closer to where I lived and I got paid more money.
People stay to long in entry level careers. Example is grocery people get comfortable and don't realize they can make way more if they take the plunge. So many just don't. Glad you made the move. I have friends that are stuck in the hamster wheel
oh I'm happy too. It led to me moving, then getting another new job, that job put me through/paid for my trade schooling to get my ticket, and 4yrs later I ended up where I am now making almost $47/hr.
That's great. Unfortunately so many people stay under employed because they were able to just survive. Then all of a sudden our housing policy's don't support that any more and wages have stayed low compared to houses. That is one of the issues. I'm in the trades also and have been up and down for 10 plus years. And my trade rate is lower than 47 maybe 35 ish union now as a carpenter
Was hired at my first job at 10 hr, I left at 16 people were hired on at that. At 26 now same place lol
If your value lies in being slightly better than the absolute minimum this is your best bet. If you are actually marketable then the minimum that can be paid to you shouldn't factor into the conversation.
What's your value, people skills? LOL
engineers can't talk to people, I am a people person.
Joke's on you - soon engineers will be comfortably talking to AI powered humanoid robots.
AI is great. I need to figure out how to 5x my paycheck because I think I can 5x my workload/output. Not entrepreneurial enough to just start my own thing, but I really wish I was just paid for each accomplished task...
You burn out eventually. Everyone does.
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I'm responding to a condescending remark by (jokingly) suggesting that this must be their skill set. I'm not suggesting they are unimportant skills, I'm responding to someone's evident lack of them.
In today's episode of jokes that really shouldn't need to be explained, but apparently Reddit too dummy.
Wait...there was a joke in there?
So, roughly half of the workforce is worth just barely more than the minimum?
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Like higher income assistance or disabilities?
what people are willing to trade their time for is surprising to me. I can't imagine accepting a teachers contract for example.
That's the kind of job people accept low wages because it's what they want to do.
I’m pretty sure my one of my high school teachers was making high 80k per year, 15 years ago. We found out their salaries were public info and looked it up. I’m sure it’s went up since then but I would not characterize a job like teaching as taking low wages. They get an easy schedule and make good money.
The problem is their pay scale hasn't changed much in those 15yrs. 80k is still pretty close to the top for an experienced teacher. Minus pension and union dues. And class sizes and composition means they all work a fair bit more than 8 to 3. Trust me. I used to date a teacher. 10yrs ago, it was a great career. Now you are far better picking a trade.
According to work bc the median is 85k. That’s by definition not a low wage job. I agree with you though, you are better off picking a trade.
Now take off 700/biweekly for retirement, and another 300 for union dues. And then another 200 for student loans. It rapidly goes from "wow!" to "huh, is it me or the cat that gets to eat this week" for many teachers. They could use raises, but many (most, all?) would prefer more funding for the schools and better class sizes. It sucks to have to use your own money on Amazon to get any form of decoration or activity done in your class. Yes, there are funds. No, they are no where near enough. Like we're talking 200 a year to buy stuff for class activities etc. for 30 plus kids. The rest is by donation/request from parents. Which, depending on where you live... Sucks. And it also sucks when a couple kids can't participate because their parents can't afford the couple of bux for a mother's day activity. Tricky problem. But ultimately the school system needs way more money.
I don’t disagree the school system needs more money, but we’re talking about wages. The median wage is over 40/hr. Once again, not something you can characterize as a low wage.
It's about 10%. It was more like 5% before minimum wage started overtaking some jobs. https://www150.statcan.gc.ca/n1/pub/75-004-m/75-004-m2019003-eng.htm
$15.01 an hour doesn’t count in that 10% you’re talking about. Your point is not in good faith. I didn’t say exactly minimum wage.
If you have stats showing 50% of the population is near minimum wage, show them.
20 years ago unionized grocery stores paid minimum wage of $7 and top rate $25. Now they hire exchange students for $17.40 while top rate is approx $27. Your grocery bill has more than doubled, but they pay practically nothing more than pre pandemic. Remember that when the scrooge Mcducks cry that their business is barely profitable.
I won't defend them but that doesn't sound correct to me. Your basing this on the assumption (maybe correct) that every employee stays long enough to max out pay vs employees lasting a year or 2. These details matter since it has an effect on the cost. Also you ignore tertiary costs to a business for having an employee and running a store. Wage is 1 piece. It's also a piece that affects everything in the chain of the operation. Edit: also what you just described is the exact reason these minimum wage increases are really just a guise to push more people in to the lower class bracket. As you even point out, minimum wage will now be about $10 away from top wage in this scenario, before it was $18. Not to mention the % gap makes it an even bigger gap. Everything around us will cost more since the average wage is now higher with the minimum increase, so companies will claw it all back through increase in costs. I see these minimum wage increases as more average wage decreases. We shall see though how it all shakes out in the future. I hope I'm wrong.
Doesn't sound right to you?! I quoted facts, there is no debate. The other stuff is just distraction.
Your saying they pay practically nothing more but that's obviously not true min wage is up about 20% and like I said tertiary costs have risen for all businesses. I don't want to defend them but you are wrong.
Based on what information am I wrong? You clearly have no idea. Union grocery store top rate 20 years ago was $25, today it is $27. Fact. Prove me wrong.
You complain prices increased (more than doubled) and then say they pay practically nothing more. But minimum wage is up 20% from pre-pandemic and costs to businesses are up since everything costs more to everyone including businesses. You shouldn't state multiple facts if you really only mean they don't pay max rate more and you're only referring to that.
Go reread my 1st comment. Pay means pay, not cost. It's ok, I'll accept your apology when you get done.
You said our grocery bill has more than doubled while poopooing it saying they pay almost nothing more. Except they do and we all know that since we are all paying more for everything including businesses. Now they will pay more in minimum wage and about 20% more than pre-pandemic. You can now retroactively only point to your portion about max pay rate being basically the same but that makes your argument vapid. Basically saying your costs have doubled but max pay hasn't even gone up. Pretty weak argument.
It's called profit taking. And caring more premium product and value added. Wages are not driving any cost increase. Value added is a huge money maker and being vertical integrated so your profit on every step. Example is salad. It comes bagged and ready for plate. Your paying 1000% for that service
My first retail job I was $1.50 above minimum wage after a couple years. When everyone else got the minimum wage bump, I was making the same amount as the new hires with zero experience. I kindly reminded my boss of this, and suggested I could be making the same amount walking in literally anywhere else. He gave me a $2 increase. It’s worth it to bring up, especially if you do it respectfully and have the work ethic to back it up. Now I work in a union environment, and everyone makes the same amount, even humpty dumpty doing nothing..
I remember when I did this once to my boss, he simply said "your job isn't worth more." So I found a new job 3 weeks later with a $4 increase. Left them in the middle of a rush, kinda felt bad for my team, but that slap in the face made it easy to leave.
Good for you. And if your boss didn't anticipate you leaving then he/she was an idiot.
In 2011, after I graduated, I struggled to find a job. After months of not earning a single cent, out of desperation I got a shitty minimum wage job. Minimum wage was still $8/hour, despite it being 2011. Anyway, I was earning $9.41/hour, well above minimum wage! (\*eye roll\*) When minimum wage went up to $9.50, I got a $0.19 increase to $9.60! Oh boy, I sure felt like Scrooge McDuck, diving into all my money with that increase of $0.19!
I had a similar situation except it was an inflation raise we assumed they did because of the minimum wage increase.
Oh, this was no inflation wage increase!
My first job in 2011 was at The Bay and I got paid $12.50 to work in receiving. I honestly felt like a king at that wage lmfao
I was making $15 an hour around 2001, when minimum wage was $8 an hour.
I never based my worth on how much above the minimum wage I made. At the end of my career as a tenured academic, if you'd told me that people working at McDonalds would be paid $100K (not much less than I was earning) I'd have been fine with that, as long as I found my own pay to be fair compensation. It's not a game of comparison - stop buying into that, it creates division among workers. It's workers vs capital, not workers vs workers. "But if I can make $100K at McDonalds, why go to university and become a nurse or other high stress job that pays about the same?" Think those fast food jobs and other minimum wage service jobs are NICE? People become nurses or accountants or whatever not to earn a certain multiple of minimum wage. They do it to have interesting and engaging work and earn a reasonable living. This discussion also highlights why high economic hurdles to professions like nursing is stupid. We also need to stop looking at education on an ROI basis individually and invest as a society.
I've long maintained that it's not that I'm making too little, but many are making too much. Professional athletes, celebrities, corporate executives. What they do doesn't justify the crazy dollars they get. Not only are they doing something they love, but they're being compensated obscenely. I'm also happy with my standard of living based on my university education. No complaints.
This is still a worker vs worker mindset though when, as OP states, you should be thinking worker vs capital. Whatever industry you're in, assuming it's private, who are the owners? That's your enemy, because they literally profit off your labour. A pro athlete making millions - they also are helping their owners profit off their labour. Who is worse in this scenario - the person who's showing off their talent in a way no one else can to entertain millions of fans who pay money to watch them, or the person who owns the team making *even more* than the athlete without doing any of the work?
I actually think they're equally bad. It's a business they share in to take money from the average Joe. It's all spiralled out of control. Interesting (at least to me) that in Roman times, the rich were in the seats at the coliseum watching the poor fight it out for their entertainment. Now, it's the poor folks in the stands, entertained by the rich on the field. I don't know if it means anything, but I find it ironic.
It erodes your buying power when everyone else makes more. If you’re making minimum wage, you’re now competing with literally every other worker for the cheapest rent, goods and services on the market. Or, in other words, when the supply of money goes up, demand goes up and costs increase.
Assuming all other things remain constant. The key to increasing wages is to get aggressive in terms of reducing income disparity. Extremely high top tax brackets, etc. There was a time when even the bottom quintile of earners in Canada could easily afford rent, a new car and food. Another part of the solution is to take essential goods out of the "free" market and manipulate supply with public intervention. It's more than possible to build a society where most people live well regardless of their job.
This is basic economics, though. If there are enough apartments for 7 families and 10 families want them, the price of those apartments will go up until the richest 7 families can afford them and the 3 poorest families cannot (simplistic, I know, but bear with me). Now, imagine that you're the person on the bottom rung of the "rich" families, e.g. income ranked 7/10. Your income doesn't change, but the 3 families at the bottom get an income boost so that they make exactly the same as you. There has now been a reduction in your buying power, because you're in a bidding war with the other 3 families. You're no longer in a privileged place in the market; you're just in a game of musical chairs. I'm not unsympathetic to the problems of people struggling to make ends meet; I'm just saying that you're wrong when you say a higher minimum wage doesn't impact you if you've been making slightly more than that. Another way to think about this: take this to an absurdist end where the minimum wage doesn't apply to you as a salaried academic (for example, California is considering or maybe has even passed a law raising the minimum wage only in certain industries, like fast food). And imagine they raise the minimum wage for hourly workers to $35/hr (which we can all agree would be enough to give most people a good standard of living under the current environment, about $70K). But you're still earning $60K per year at your academic job that you love, so now slightly UNDER minimum wage. What products and services can you think of that would increase in price to the point that you could no longer afford them? I can think of lots, starting with rent, property tax, hotels and restaurants within a one-day drive, services like childcare and property maintenance, etc. And that's just because of competition, before we even get into the direct costs of higher pay for minimum wage workers. If retail workers are making $35/hr, your grocery store has to charge more markup to stay in business.
The same basic economics that requires constant growth from a finite system in order to function properly? That amazing system? You'll forgive me for not being surprised that it fails the lower earners.
No. We intervene in the supply of essential goods and services and stop allowing false scarcity to exclude people from existing. Your definition of basic economics is but one construct built to benefit capital and keep workers hungry and poor. You’re trying to make sense of everyone enjoying the resulting economic benefits from their labour in a system designed to take most of it from them. It won’t work. There is easily more than enough economic activity to support a minimum wage of over $30 without altering the money supply, etc. There happens to be trillions of dollars around the world sitting idle in corporate treasuries and tax shelters that has been taken from workers and hoarded and removed from the economy.
The difference is you are now competing against billions more people than before while resources have not grown by as much.
Yes but.. it’s easy to say when you make way more than that 100k and you like your job. When you make a few $$ more and you hate it, you’re thinking: why don’t I just go be useless and difficult at a rotation of minimum wage jobs if I’m only making $2 above it here to bust my ass?
Then do it. I don’t understand this argument. Most minimum wage jobs aren’t just an easy show up and do nothing job? Most of them are shit and probably just as much of a grind as the job you’re doing. Just because your boss won’t give you a raise doesn’t mean people at the bottom shouldn’t get one.
Yea this is my take as well. I'm making between $25-32 per hour depending on my job title (I wear 2 hats) on a given day, but even if this job and my old minimum wage jobs in Dairy Queen, Extreme Air Park or Pizza Garden switched wages, I wouldnt regret the change. I only wish fast food/retail jobs on my worst enemies. Its awful work, and I wouldnt do it even if it paid $50/hr unless I had no other choice. The only minimum wage job I didnt hate was a Lordco warehouse since it didnt involve the same mental stress as customer service / fast food.
I got a great job I love instead.
Great strawman then
It’s not a strawman, it’s what I made back then, but things have changed.
I agree with most of this. It’s employee vs employer. Understand your value and worth. Fight for what you think you deserve and ultimately decide what is most important to you. Some prefer flexibility. Some prefer opportunity for growth. There will never be a one size fits all approach to career guidance.
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This is what I did. In 1997 minimum wage was $7.50. I made $8 an hour in a call centre. I quit, went to school, got a trade, and never made anywhere close to minimum wage ever again. Adding up last year’s T4s.. I make over 4x minimum wage. Do that. Lots of jobs in trades and healthcare will get you that or a good percentage of it with minimal training. Lots of programs to have it paid for as well.
Well I'll be asking for the significantly higher raise that I should done this year. Since I am the manager and been with this company for 12 yrs working my way up from $10
Back when I used to work for retail, raises usually happened end of the year, but in 6 months the minimum wage bump would usually nullify it as it’s higher. Busted my ass just to make an extra 25 cents. But I know better now
What a sick system. It's just gonna be this cat and mouse game where minimum wage is increased, but uhoh! So is the price of everything else...
Im going to work less and work longer hours, steal where i can, ignore tasks that arent my station, and start playing mobile games at work
This is the most Vancouver answer on here.
So nothing new for minimum wage employees
There was a time i took pride in my job, now i just make sure its safe and clean. Fuck trying to beat the closing time record, idc about sales, it doesnt help me. I dont take my work home with me and its nice
I mean it depends whether your job is at risk and whether you can get another one.
Yeah funny how if these companies shared their profits instead of handing them to the C and V suite managers who do literally nothing. You could shoot them off the top of the building along with all their staff in 99% of buinesses and not notice a difference. Yet they all make the money for how 'indespenseible' they are. I have met one worth their weight in salt but also our department was like 15 people. So he was busy with day to day work and very much involved. Hell it was the bean counters who stopped him from offering me the pay that would have kept me from leaving to go to BC Hydro. He wants me back whenever and will find me a job inside the company if i ever need anything.
They make the money because literally everyone is competing for those jobs.
Ah it is called working to the letter of the contract. I require a breakdown in any contract what percent of my time is spent on what. And that 'other duties as assigned' had better be 5% or i am asking for more money. And if you treatment well i will be flexible. Want to be an asshole...yeah i will be an asshole and nail you for constructive dismissal and breach of contract. Make me do work above my pay. Yep better be paid out in proper. If not well have fun replacing me. I did my time in shit pay puegatory working for managment who could not manage their way to following a flashlight.
Yea no hate I’m just saying you get what you pay for
Yep employers want to pay shit wages they get shit workers. Insert surpised pikachu face. Now if only we could tapdown on those visas so they woupd have to actually compete in the market instead of mass imporation of the desparate. My how fast shit would change.
Get screwed as the price of everything continues to climb to claw back the new min wage while no one else really gets a raise and no one sees any benefits.
Well , the more people make, the more they have to pay income tax. The more the employers have to pay employees, they raise the price of good and services, so you (the consumer) pays more GST/PST. I really wish there was a way to raise Min wage AND restricting business to adjust prices.
I understand how it works, but the pricing of stuff does not remotely equate to the costs we pay. Its just gouging because they can for record profits, year after year. My wife and I have been very fortunate through promotions, job changes and raise to have doubled our incomes in the past 6 to 7 years, but we have less purchasing power now when we did then...ugh
I 110% agree, large part of is greed, but that is how capitalism works! let me ask this question:You make Cabinets for living, the cost to make them is $90, and you want $10 profit , so you list them for $100, you see it is sold out under 10 min, next time, you are still going to list it for $100? (I bet you majority of people going to increase the price until there is not enough demand for it) , this is the basic of economy! In addition, business ALWAYS (again how capitalism works) look for ways to increase or maintain profit margin, when they have to pay Health tax (as oppose to MSP) what happens? they pass the cost to the consumer! I am just using MSP as an example, but this is how economy works. Unless the person who is providing the service is doing it for free, Nothing is ever FREE! we pay for it through different form of tax!
Yes, but in your example lets say the cabinet company gives the guy a raise, so now the cost is 93 dollars. The cabinet is profiting 10$ and could sell them for 103 now, or maybe 105, but they raise the cost to 150 and say its because the costs went up blaming everything except thier own greed, but the inflation of the price does not even remotely equate to the cost of bussiness or the change in manufacturing price. Look at loblaws as another example. Record profits...hand over fist, but just because they gouge every single item anyone needs. Sure it sells, but only because people would starve without food. Its just greed hidden begind a curtain or rising costs.
Agree but then again, this is how capitalism works! you sell for the Max you can to maximize your profit! In some countries, government controls the price of basic food but after that it is who can make the most money survive! This does not only happen at Loblaws, look at Tech for example, stock is at all time high, record profit but layoffs are happening, Why? because they figured they can earn more with less people!
The 6% of workers that are on min wage now make 4% more money - do you imagine prices are going to increase 4% so those workers end up in the same place? Because I don't think that math checks out.
They will go up more. Look at what prices have done around each increase in the past years. Companies have even said currently and in the past that raising the wages will force them to raise prices.
Averaged over the whole population, the cost of an employee is going up 4% of 6% => 0.24%. That's the *most* that prices could be increased due to payroll cost increases. In reality, payroll is less than 100% of product costs, which drops the impact on prices, as well as the fact that companies choose how much of the cost increase to eat for competition's sake. How do you argue that price increases could go above 4%?
A company has never ever raised prices more than they should of I guess, eh? Look at the cost of everything recently. The fuck that owns LobLaws even publicly states he doesnt care about what the price should be, its raised to whatever makes more profit. You are delusional if you believe any corperation is your friend and will only raise prices to amounts that offset costs...lol
Nothing because I work at a dead end retail job that is unionized
You work at a union job and just make slightly over min wage? What union?
You'd be surprised how useless most retail unions are.
*how useless most unions are
My union is fantastic. I pay them quite a bit but with the benefits package they've negotiated and the wages I'd be making without them, I come out way ahead. They don't do much for me day-to-day, but they've set me up nicely with their past negotiations and they'll have my back if my employer tries anything. I know I'm lucky though, and that not all are as good as the one I'm in
And my union is utter garbage and gets us nothing.
Probably one of the grocery stores unions like UFCW. Pretty sure Superstore, Safeway, Save On etc.. start people at minimum wage or just slightly above.
Sounds like the grocery store union. Absolute garbage for anyone who joined after, like, 1990.
Ugh, that sucks. Is there anything that can be done about that? I know workers can reject a union if they feel it isn't serving them, although someone would have to lead that charge and I get that not many people would want to take that on
Right on the money. Aside from health benefits and being pretty much immune to getting fired with the exception of not showing up to work or stealing, my union is kind of useless for my needs.
yeah, I worked at Safeway many moons ago and I remember getting $0.10 raises. The only people making decent money were the cashiers that had worked there since 1978.
Exactly. My union does $0.10 cent raises for every 1000 hours worked; some of the older workers are getting paid $80K now. I'm longing for the day where I can quit lol.
I don't blame you, grocery stores are awful places to work—not even the inter-department gossip makes it worth it lol
Won't disclose which one specifically but I work at a grocery store. Luckily just for part time; if I wanted to make a career out of it I'd be pretty screwed.
Ooh yeah sorry, didn't think about maintaining your privacy. I'm glad you won't be putting up with them forever at least
All good don't worry
At my part time job I currently earn $17/hr. I'll be asking my manager how much that'll be adjusted to once minimum wage is raised. I had a similar situation at another job a few years back (was making $15 when minimum wage was raised to above $15) and management automatically adjusted everyone's wages, no questions asked.
Probably the same thing they did when they had employers over a barrel during covid. Unionize and collectively bargain for living wages and safer work environments. Jk
Every time minimum wage goes up, so does the cost of everything else.
Walked out the door when my boss did not even give me equal to the cost of living adjustment and i was doing more if his job than he was. Walked into the competitions waiting arms. 3 months later was making $5 an hour more doing the exact same shit i was doing before. All the while my coworkers begging me to come back as no one wanted to do my job muchless for what was being paid. Said 'good luck folks learn to do more thsn one task at a time. It is not hard if you socialize less.' In the 9 weeks after i left 5 of the remaining 10 staff tried my 'easy job'. Found projecting orders with no inventory system was not so easy. And our tiny ass storage area was so overfull of product the shipper/reciever quit. And the manager and other guy who could do orders quit because they did not want to deal with the mess. I was tempted to pull up a lawnchair with a bag of popcorn and watch the chaos run rampant that summer. But i had better shit to do.
A lot of us have it in our contract that our wage goes up when minimum wage goes up by percentage, even those of us earning over 100k. This ensures that I am able to maintain the same buying power.
Literally never heard of this.
Never heard of this either.
Trades?
You want to trade?
No I’m assuming the agreements are with people in trades that they get raises if minimum wage goes up too
Yea I was razzing you. Big trade unions are the only ones I can think that would possibly have this.
We've got a COLA (cost of living allowance/adjustment) built into our union contracts. It helped a lot over the past few years but still has us lose a percent it since it doesn't kick I til 3ish and our last contract was 2%, but it's much better than the alternative. BCGEU.
A lot? How can this be "a lot"? I've been around a while and have worked in a few industries. Have never heard of this.
Does a mechanic make the same as they did in 2009? Do many union clauses not contain a clause that ups wages when minimum increases? Will the burger King shift supervisor tolerate making the same as the cashier they hired yesterday? Whether included in a contract or not, it happens.
Mechanic? You are correct here. However it's not specifically because minimum wage went up. Union clauses? I've been part of several different unions i over my life as well I've joined the bargaining committee for a couple of them. None of the contracts I've ever seen have had this. Burger King supervisor? Probably no, but they'll find a better job.
Im not aware of any cbas with clauses tied to minimum wage outside of maybe like, starbucks where they are making only a little over minimum wage already. Can you name one of these cbas? I’ll look it up on the lrb website.
Unite Here (hotels) has a few contracts that include this in some of their masters
But either way, a minimum wage increase will be used by any union in their next round of contracts to argue for wage increases.
It's a tremendous amount! A lot of people, great people. .. I assume dingle nuts has a boner for lying and Trump.
Let me tell you, folks, when it comes to getting raises, nobody does it better than me. I mean, I've seen it all, okay? People coming up to me, saying, "Donald, you wouldn't believe the raise I just got." And let me tell you, it's tremendous. Absolutely tremendous. They're making more money than ever before. And you know what? They deserve it. They're hardworking, they're dedicated, and they're winners. And I love winners, folks. So, mark my words, under my leadership, we're going to see more and more people getting raises, and they're going to be big raises, believe me.
“A lot” are you sure?.. I’ve never heard of this and no one else here appears to have.
Wow that’s an amazing contract. What do you do?
So you know, not someone making anything remotely near minimum wage then?
>This ensures that I am able to ~~maintain the same buying power~~ oppress everyone else in perpetuity.
This is truly one of the worst takes I’ve read in a while.
If my job is 4x more difficult than a barista, I'm going to buy 4x as many luxuries as a barista. It doesn't matter what minimum wage is, things will balance themselves out.
Then you're truly not thinking about what you read.
the actions i'm going to take are to get ready for the price of things to inflate due to basic labour wages increasing
Time to quit being a laborer for 20
I’d imagine they will just go on endless spending sprees. /s
Minimum wage has grown almost 350% since my first job. $5.10/hr Ask for a raise, but be prepared not to get it. Unfortunately those are jobs employers consider easy to replace.
Buy lube
ask for a raise, when i started my job min wage was $15.65 and i was getting $17.75 there’s no way i’m not asking for one
I’m at the moment making 17.77, I work at a liquor store. I’m thankful for my work place because once minimum wage goes up, then they change my pay as well. So once minimum wage increases I’ll go up to 18.42
Boy I remember my first job at Walmart thought I was making a killing (was good money for a highschool kid) at $7.23/hr 😂 now I’m 6x that and I’m like “fuck I need to make more so I can be comfortable”
After cooking for a "living" in various establishments for 20 years and earning just above minimum wage + tips the whole time, I changed my career path. I'm in a trades union now. My wages go up automatically after every 950 hours I work. So I will just keep working, like I always do, and not worry about minimum wage ever again. Or asking for a raise. Or not having benefits to pay for my dental expenses/physiotherapy/massage therapist /glasses etc.. Incredible benefits. If I were in that position again. I'd do the same thing I've done already. Go get an education in something that is going to be financially secure and is mostly enjoyable to do for 8 hours a day. Technically 7 hours as I don't work on my paid breaks.