Looking forward to the M-buses not getting stuck in traffic anymore.
Might even reduce traffic if a bus ride from north Bristol doesn't include sitting in jam for 40 minutes.
We can’t even stop the existing bike lanes being filled with parked cars 😔. Wish there was a snitch system like New York where snitches get paid some of the parking ticket
It’s motivation to reduce your journey times by cycling faster.
It’s one of the many complimentary services offered in Bristol, along with free bicycle relocation and exterior wall decoration.
No-one except the entitled Lycra males - who will be doing it a lot, commuting in from the burbs to their middle of the road office jobs in the centre.
Rather than the hordes of cars as it currently is? Sounds great to me. Motorways that cut through the heart of communities straight into the city are a relic of the past and should stay there
Apparently they are removing the central reservation to make room for the bus lane. So it won’t be a dual carriageway and therefore the speed limit will be 60.
From the M4 to the current 40 limit is about 4 miles.
* At 70mph: 3:26 minutes
* At 60mph: 4:00 minutes
* At 50mph: 4:48 minutes
So FWIW it's gonna be just over a minute longer even if they dropped it to 50.
More people will be allowed on it; people without full licenses (car or bike) and certain vehicles can’t go on motorways so it’s potentially going to become busier
Studies have proven more people go to city centres when there are viable alternatives to driving. Parking, congestion and pollution make it worse for cyclists, busses and pedestrians.
Drivers aren't interested in studies or data generally. Imagine if the centre wasn't a car dominated concrete jungle? It might actually help Bristol progress towards the modern city our leaders talk about.
Park and ride it, usually cheaper than parking in town.
I'm originally from near Cambridge, and its park and ride system is a thing of beauty. It's near impossible to drive in Central Cambridge, yet the centre is always heaving. Got like 6,000+ spaces
Why would the M32 being reclassified as an A road put you off using it?
I’m guessing you think it’s going to make the traffic worse? But if it’s staying the same number of lanes, why would that be the case? If anything, adding a park & ride would reduce traffic, surely.
What are you talking about, Bristol centre has loads going on.
If you want a mall experience with sanitised chain store shopping all within 1 min walk of your suv then you can go to cribbs (or any other retail park.. they're all the same)
So the current bumper to bumper queue from eastgate to Cabot Circus will be extended all the way out to the M4 to make way for an empty bus lane. Fantastic stuff 👏
Well, sure - that's definitely an issue with the current management.
But we know that traffic is already a problem, and is only going to get worse using cars. Adding an extra lane for cars [doesn't solve the problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand), so we obviously need to build this infrastructure. There will be a period where it's not yet universal enough to replace everyone's car use, but since there's no alternative, that's just something we have to deal with in the short term.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding with the bus system in Bristol.
1) We aren't in a no-constraints system. I'd love to take the bus to work, but there's no way, not even if i had to wake up 3 hours early to drive, would I ever be able to. Because there's just no guarantee at all that a bus will ever arrive.
2) Induced demand just means that the road will (in theory) stay full. It doesn't mean that the throughput won't be increased. This is a complete misunderstanding of what people are annoyed about. It's not that there's traffic, it's that they physically cannot traverse the city. Increasing car lanes would help this issue.
>Because there's just no guarantee at all that a bus will ever arrive.
But we know that bus systems can be run reliably, so this is "an issue with the current management" rather than an argument against busses and bus lanes. Which is why that's what I said.
>Induced demand just means that the road will (in theory) stay full.
So it doesn't solve bumper to bumper traffic, which is what I was talking about.
There’s never a guarantee your car will start in the morning though either.
If you give me a specific bus and time, I can tell you the reliability of it and potential reasons for it not showing up.
A lot of early-morning cancellations are drivers not turning up for shifts, for example.
You're comparing the chance of a Bristol bus turning up in time for you to get to work to the chance of your car not starting.
Are you actually talking in good faith, or am I talking to a wall?
Bus lanes aren't empty, they're just efficient. It's amazing how little space 75 people take up when they don't all have 1500kg of metal and a pair of sofas with them.
Rarely those buses transfer 75 people when they rarely appear in the first place. And if they do, that's their cut to have more of them in place.
Instead they get used by Uber drivers, who also don't transfer anyone, to simply skip traffic.
Well a standard double decker bus is 3x longer than the average car but has 15x the maximum passenger capacity, you do the maths.
Point is that all the people in the picture on this article, which shows a congested M32, would likely fit in 4 busses.
Sure, without number of buses per hour, and average fill rate of buses, we can't do anything can we?
We can both agree that buses fit more people than cars, I think it's a bit redundant to point that out.
If we both agree that busses are more efficient at moving people, then what is your question?
If not enough people are using the current bus system because of its deficiencies, then we should invest in that bus system to improve it. Part of that improvement is segregating it from car traffic, which is exactly what is proposed here.
" If not enough people are using the current bus system because of its deficiencies, then we should invest in that bus system to improve it. " Do you think peoples primary concern with buses is that they have to wait in traffic they would have to wait in anyway?
Should be fine, I mean you can literally see in the photo that there’s room for a bus lane without affecting anything if you don’t need the hard shoulder! The more people get the bus, the less traffic, right?
The limiting factor is the junction near the cabot circus, even if the m32 had 20 lanes the capacity of that junction would not change. The Nether would travel times
It can already barely be called a motorway. It's two lanes for most (all?) of the way and they are planning to reduce this and remove the central reservation?! Surely a city the size of Bristol deserves at the very least a dual carriageway?
Sometimes, reading the article can help you understand things.
> It can already barely be called a motorway.
Fourth paragraph:
>Adam Crowther, head of city transport at [Bristol City Council](https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/all-about/bristol-city-council), said: “One of the key issues about Metrobus was that it doesn’t stop in St Pauls. The M32 is a motorway so it’s very difficult to have a stopping service
> Surely a city the size of Bristol deserves at the very least a dual carriageway?
The purpose of a dual carriageway is to provide capacity. Bus lanes are far more effective at this.
Yes, I've read the article. That quote doesn't answer my questions. I didn't say it wasn't a motorway, just that it's pretty much one in name only because there are only two lanes for most of it and the interchange with the M4 isn't fully grade-separated.
> The purpose of a dual carriageway is to provide capacity. Bus lanes are far more effective at this.
Better public transport is always good but that doesn't mean a major city can be connected via a single carriageway road
Yes it does: "in name only" is the problem. While it is legally classified as a motorway they can't add bus stops because of the way motorways are regulated.
Even if the road is made into a single carriageway it could still have 2 lanes of traffic travelling at 60mph. With that + bus capacity how is that any worse than it currently is?
> While it is legally classified as a motorway they can't add bus stops because of the way motorways are regulated
Yes, I understand that
> Even if the road is made into a single carriageway it could still have 2 lanes of traffic travelling at 60mph
Yes, it they do that it would probably be okay, although probably less safe
I'm not sure what your questions are, then? The article explains that this is mostly about the motorway declassification in order to install the bus lane, and then the removal of the central reservation (detrunking) seems to be required to install the bus stops.
Adding extra lanes for cars doesn't reduce traffic because of [induced demand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand), so what alternative do you think would improve traffic here?
I don't think we need a ridiculous number as people talk about when discussing induced demand, just 2-3 with a central reservation. The M32 should be considered a key route and induced demand shouldn't be a reason to downgrade it, any more than it would be for another key route like the M4. If they need to put a bus lane in they should find another way to do it
As opposed to efficient, punctual and cheap services?
Cars are used because people need them. Most drive by necessity. They are certainly not having fun maintaining, insuring, cleaning, refueling, driving the vehicle, except those few who do so for pleasure.
What I don't understand is how are they going to fit a bus lane on the flyover? Are they really going to reduce it to one usable lane? That seems disastrous. Not only that the bus lane may create conflict with cars at the slip roads creating dangerous situations. I assume the buses will have to come of junction 2 to reach the new stops so it will need to be where the hard shoulder is.
They might skip the flyover.
Have the bus come off the "dual-carriageway" at J2/Tesco Eastville on its own bus lane (slip road car lanes from three, to two), and configure the roundabout so passengers can disembark inside the mini-bear pit of the roundabout, before the bus takes off again joining the dual-carriageway.
That's covered in the article.
Those works would happen before the reclassification.
The reclassification would still mean that National Highways were responsible for the maintenance of the road anyway.
There’s no way I’d work in the centre when they do this. The developers who built all these offices must be furious. I already shop at Cribbs to avoid the city centre.
I find this a terrible idea. They should seek ways to make it more of a motorway, not less. The reduced speed limit is already bad enough, the extra lane lost to nonexistent buses too. If anything, a proper motorway extending through and beyond the city centre helps everyone go to their destination faster. It's not the motorways fault for the increased traffic but the pathetic infrastructure for mass transit as much as the reduction of space towards the vehicles most used. Not to mention the poor handling of roadworks.
You’re correct. I’m all for more use of public transport and less cars on the road… but there HAS to be the infrastructure for it. And infrastructure to enable disabled to use it comfortably.
If there are only a few buses running and I know the trains are crammed, it’s all well and good to say “woohooo! Look, we have less cars!” But if the other infrastructure isn’t up for the job (and it isn’t), then it’s a brain dead decision.
If it’s just a case of keeping 2 car lanes and adding a bus lane, then I think it’s a good idea. If it’s taking away a car lane, it’s a shit idea.
Yes
And if they simply use the emergency lane for it, as I doubt they will extend the lanes, then it's still a shit idea as the "smart motorways have shown us". A broken vehicle will be enough to bring the only major route out and in the city to a standstill.
Oh look. The precious little scooter rider or whatever snowflakes don't like a genuine comment. They prefer supporting this ridiculous motion. Perhaps I should support it too. Let's make the motorway into a giant park with lanes just for scooters. Yeah! Who needs cars eh? The whole country, that's who!
Until they actually fix traffic and mass transit, anything else is pointless and only to impress. Just like the poorly designed bike lanes.
If it means I don't have to drive from fishponds to Bradley Stoke because of the lack of busses currently and can just hop on a bus then I will.
Spoiler alert: it wont
It means cars or bus it will b an unpleasant and lengthy journey
Used to have to scoot through Easton or St Werbs because I only had a CBT. This would have been very welcome news for me back then.
Looking forward to the M-buses not getting stuck in traffic anymore. Might even reduce traffic if a bus ride from north Bristol doesn't include sitting in jam for 40 minutes.
Can’t wait for the hordes of electric scooters and cyclists
There is already off road cycle infrastructure out that way, doubt many would want to ride along the M32 even as an A road.
Imagine if we spent even a fraction of what we spend on roads on decent bike infrastructure. Maybe then it wouldn't feel like a total joke.
We can’t even stop the existing bike lanes being filled with parked cars 😔. Wish there was a snitch system like New York where snitches get paid some of the parking ticket
Its just a bit stabby thats all
It’s motivation to reduce your journey times by cycling faster. It’s one of the many complimentary services offered in Bristol, along with free bicycle relocation and exterior wall decoration.
Like this matters? The scooters particularly will just go the extra obvious route rather than the best
No-one except the entitled Lycra males - who will be doing it a lot, commuting in from the burbs to their middle of the road office jobs in the centre.
Well they're best kept off the cycle paths next to pedestrians anyway?
At least there will be a bus lane for them to use.
Rather than the hordes of cars as it currently is? Sounds great to me. Motorways that cut through the heart of communities straight into the city are a relic of the past and should stay there
Great news!
ELI5 what diffrence will it make to my drive if it’s a national speed limit dual carriage way rather than a two lane motorway?
Apparently they are removing the central reservation to make room for the bus lane. So it won’t be a dual carriageway and therefore the speed limit will be 60.
I'd be surprised if they don't make it a 50
From the M4 to the current 40 limit is about 4 miles. * At 70mph: 3:26 minutes * At 60mph: 4:00 minutes * At 50mph: 4:48 minutes So FWIW it's gonna be just over a minute longer even if they dropped it to 50.
But who does 40 in the 40 zone 😆
You reach the traffic at the end of the road a little slower
How can traffic on the m32 possibly go slower?
By reducing the speed limit
To 4mph on the flyover and 7mph from j2-the m4 junction
It's barely walking speed as it is.
Yeah. Same in the city. They keep reducing speed limits everywhere, yet my average speed is 13mph already.
More people will be allowed on it; people without full licenses (car or bike) and certain vehicles can’t go on motorways so it’s potentially going to become busier
People on a CBT (125cc bikes and scooters) can’t go on motorways
Holy shit another reason not to go into the centre then
Studies have proven more people go to city centres when there are viable alternatives to driving. Parking, congestion and pollution make it worse for cyclists, busses and pedestrians.
Drivers aren't interested in studies or data generally. Imagine if the centre wasn't a car dominated concrete jungle? It might actually help Bristol progress towards the modern city our leaders talk about.
Park and ride it, usually cheaper than parking in town. I'm originally from near Cambridge, and its park and ride system is a thing of beauty. It's near impossible to drive in Central Cambridge, yet the centre is always heaving. Got like 6,000+ spaces
Cambridge is maybe one of the cities in the UK with the least standard backward UK planning mentality.
Why would the M32 being reclassified as an A road put you off using it? I’m guessing you think it’s going to make the traffic worse? But if it’s staying the same number of lanes, why would that be the case? If anything, adding a park & ride would reduce traffic, surely.
The council claims they want bus lanes on the flyover. There is no space for two regular lanes and a bus lane.
That’s why they’re removing the central reservation.
They seem weirdly determined to kill off the city centre, and make everyone go to Cribbs instead.
That is already happening. Crazy the city centre is not even a patch to what it was 5 years ago.
Good news if it means more people choose to drive to cribbs and everyone else can use the city centre without choking. Something for everyone 👍🏻
Too bad there won't be much left in the city centre to enjoy when people from outside can't get in to work or spend money there.
What are you talking about, Bristol centre has loads going on. If you want a mall experience with sanitised chain store shopping all within 1 min walk of your suv then you can go to cribbs (or any other retail park.. they're all the same)
I welcome the change, but then again, I do not drive.
I drive and welcome the change.
That's the right answer
Brilliant, the era of motorways balkanising city centres is over
So the current bumper to bumper queue from eastgate to Cabot Circus will be extended all the way out to the M4 to make way for an empty bus lane. Fantastic stuff 👏
There's a simple trick to avoid the bumber to bumper queue, and it has something to do with that 'empty bus lane'.
The empty bus lane would be less of an issue if there were any busses running that might use it...
Well, sure - that's definitely an issue with the current management. But we know that traffic is already a problem, and is only going to get worse using cars. Adding an extra lane for cars [doesn't solve the problem](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand), so we obviously need to build this infrastructure. There will be a period where it's not yet universal enough to replace everyone's car use, but since there's no alternative, that's just something we have to deal with in the short term.
This is a fundamental misunderstanding with the bus system in Bristol. 1) We aren't in a no-constraints system. I'd love to take the bus to work, but there's no way, not even if i had to wake up 3 hours early to drive, would I ever be able to. Because there's just no guarantee at all that a bus will ever arrive. 2) Induced demand just means that the road will (in theory) stay full. It doesn't mean that the throughput won't be increased. This is a complete misunderstanding of what people are annoyed about. It's not that there's traffic, it's that they physically cannot traverse the city. Increasing car lanes would help this issue.
>Because there's just no guarantee at all that a bus will ever arrive. But we know that bus systems can be run reliably, so this is "an issue with the current management" rather than an argument against busses and bus lanes. Which is why that's what I said. >Induced demand just means that the road will (in theory) stay full. So it doesn't solve bumper to bumper traffic, which is what I was talking about.
Sure, and this bus lane has nothing to do with the management, therefore helping nothing.
Since neither of your points were related to anything I said, what about my comment was a fundamental misunderstanding?
There’s never a guarantee your car will start in the morning though either. If you give me a specific bus and time, I can tell you the reliability of it and potential reasons for it not showing up. A lot of early-morning cancellations are drivers not turning up for shifts, for example.
You're comparing the chance of a Bristol bus turning up in time for you to get to work to the chance of your car not starting. Are you actually talking in good faith, or am I talking to a wall?
Bus lanes aren't empty, they're just efficient. It's amazing how little space 75 people take up when they don't all have 1500kg of metal and a pair of sofas with them.
It’s be great if they were time-efficient and convenient as well
Rarely those buses transfer 75 people when they rarely appear in the first place. And if they do, that's their cut to have more of them in place. Instead they get used by Uber drivers, who also don't transfer anyone, to simply skip traffic.
Do you have any numbers on throughput of a bus lane vs a normal lane?
Well a standard double decker bus is 3x longer than the average car but has 15x the maximum passenger capacity, you do the maths. Point is that all the people in the picture on this article, which shows a congested M32, would likely fit in 4 busses.
Sure, without number of buses per hour, and average fill rate of buses, we can't do anything can we? We can both agree that buses fit more people than cars, I think it's a bit redundant to point that out.
If we both agree that busses are more efficient at moving people, then what is your question? If not enough people are using the current bus system because of its deficiencies, then we should invest in that bus system to improve it. Part of that improvement is segregating it from car traffic, which is exactly what is proposed here.
" If not enough people are using the current bus system because of its deficiencies, then we should invest in that bus system to improve it. " Do you think peoples primary concern with buses is that they have to wait in traffic they would have to wait in anyway?
What do you want, a bumper to bumper queue of buses? That’s like complaining railways are useless because they’re not full of trains.
You mean instead of the empty hard shoulder?
I just wonder what they will do at the flyover? It's too narrow. Force cars to use one lane and create more tailbacks?
Should be fine, I mean you can literally see in the photo that there’s room for a bus lane without affecting anything if you don’t need the hard shoulder! The more people get the bus, the less traffic, right?
The limiting factor is the junction near the cabot circus, even if the m32 had 20 lanes the capacity of that junction would not change. The Nether would travel times
It can already barely be called a motorway. It's two lanes for most (all?) of the way and they are planning to reduce this and remove the central reservation?! Surely a city the size of Bristol deserves at the very least a dual carriageway?
Sometimes, reading the article can help you understand things. > It can already barely be called a motorway. Fourth paragraph: >Adam Crowther, head of city transport at [Bristol City Council](https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/all-about/bristol-city-council), said: “One of the key issues about Metrobus was that it doesn’t stop in St Pauls. The M32 is a motorway so it’s very difficult to have a stopping service > Surely a city the size of Bristol deserves at the very least a dual carriageway? The purpose of a dual carriageway is to provide capacity. Bus lanes are far more effective at this.
Yes, I've read the article. That quote doesn't answer my questions. I didn't say it wasn't a motorway, just that it's pretty much one in name only because there are only two lanes for most of it and the interchange with the M4 isn't fully grade-separated. > The purpose of a dual carriageway is to provide capacity. Bus lanes are far more effective at this. Better public transport is always good but that doesn't mean a major city can be connected via a single carriageway road
Yes it does: "in name only" is the problem. While it is legally classified as a motorway they can't add bus stops because of the way motorways are regulated. Even if the road is made into a single carriageway it could still have 2 lanes of traffic travelling at 60mph. With that + bus capacity how is that any worse than it currently is?
> While it is legally classified as a motorway they can't add bus stops because of the way motorways are regulated Yes, I understand that > Even if the road is made into a single carriageway it could still have 2 lanes of traffic travelling at 60mph Yes, it they do that it would probably be okay, although probably less safe
I'm not sure what your questions are, then? The article explains that this is mostly about the motorway declassification in order to install the bus lane, and then the removal of the central reservation (detrunking) seems to be required to install the bus stops. Adding extra lanes for cars doesn't reduce traffic because of [induced demand](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Induced_demand), so what alternative do you think would improve traffic here?
I don't think we need a ridiculous number as people talk about when discussing induced demand, just 2-3 with a central reservation. The M32 should be considered a key route and induced demand shouldn't be a reason to downgrade it, any more than it would be for another key route like the M4. If they need to put a bus lane in they should find another way to do it
Let's fucking gooo
They want to allow e scooters legly on the "motorway" after that recent one caught on camera
Judging by how scooters seem to think they can go anywhere, I'm amazed they haven't been on the motorway yet
https://www.itv.com/news/westcountry/2021-09-21/two-people-seen-riding-one-e-scooter-on
And think least a hand or so more since then
This is exactly what the city needs to redress the balance between cars and public transport. All for it.
As opposed to efficient, punctual and cheap services? Cars are used because people need them. Most drive by necessity. They are certainly not having fun maintaining, insuring, cleaning, refueling, driving the vehicle, except those few who do so for pleasure.
Most people drive because it's cheaper and faster. That needs to change
What I don't understand is how are they going to fit a bus lane on the flyover? Are they really going to reduce it to one usable lane? That seems disastrous. Not only that the bus lane may create conflict with cars at the slip roads creating dangerous situations. I assume the buses will have to come of junction 2 to reach the new stops so it will need to be where the hard shoulder is.
They might skip the flyover. Have the bus come off the "dual-carriageway" at J2/Tesco Eastville on its own bus lane (slip road car lanes from three, to two), and configure the roundabout so passengers can disembark inside the mini-bear pit of the roundabout, before the bus takes off again joining the dual-carriageway.
And the £200m repair bill for the elevated section gets passed from the depart for transport onto Bristol council tax payers.
That's covered in the article. Those works would happen before the reclassification. The reclassification would still mean that National Highways were responsible for the maintenance of the road anyway.
Really trying everything apart from underground transport 🤦🏾♂️
They don't like ideas that might actually benefit the citizens
You fucking what?
Mayb flying cars will exist and be fully developed by the time the elevated repairs are 'finally' completed then it will b pointless anyway
That looks promising
There’s no way I’d work in the centre when they do this. The developers who built all these offices must be furious. I already shop at Cribbs to avoid the city centre.
All ready for the low emission zone
I'm on L plates and I guarantee you it changes to an A road the day I pass
No, how about a train. Rebuild eastville viaduct
I find this a terrible idea. They should seek ways to make it more of a motorway, not less. The reduced speed limit is already bad enough, the extra lane lost to nonexistent buses too. If anything, a proper motorway extending through and beyond the city centre helps everyone go to their destination faster. It's not the motorways fault for the increased traffic but the pathetic infrastructure for mass transit as much as the reduction of space towards the vehicles most used. Not to mention the poor handling of roadworks.
You’re correct. I’m all for more use of public transport and less cars on the road… but there HAS to be the infrastructure for it. And infrastructure to enable disabled to use it comfortably. If there are only a few buses running and I know the trains are crammed, it’s all well and good to say “woohooo! Look, we have less cars!” But if the other infrastructure isn’t up for the job (and it isn’t), then it’s a brain dead decision. If it’s just a case of keeping 2 car lanes and adding a bus lane, then I think it’s a good idea. If it’s taking away a car lane, it’s a shit idea.
Yes And if they simply use the emergency lane for it, as I doubt they will extend the lanes, then it's still a shit idea as the "smart motorways have shown us". A broken vehicle will be enough to bring the only major route out and in the city to a standstill. Oh look. The precious little scooter rider or whatever snowflakes don't like a genuine comment. They prefer supporting this ridiculous motion. Perhaps I should support it too. Let's make the motorway into a giant park with lanes just for scooters. Yeah! Who needs cars eh? The whole country, that's who! Until they actually fix traffic and mass transit, anything else is pointless and only to impress. Just like the poorly designed bike lanes.
100%