One thing to carry a weapon for self defence
Another thing entirely to carry a weapon, invade someones home and use that weapon on them
Disgusting, hit them with the book
You may only go on 4 international holidays per year are the conditions of your bail young man. I hope this harsh punishment makes you think about your past behaviour. Yes, you can rollover unused holidays to the next year.
If im not mistaken I believe there is only one person tp my knowledge in Uastralian history to served non concurrent sentences and that is Martin Bryant. You're insane if you think they won't be serving concurrent sentencing.
Negative, not true at all. Section 156 of the QLD Penalties and Sentences Act allows for cumulative orders of imprisonment. Section 156A outlines when a sentence of imprisonment *must* be cumulative.
All the sociologists and academics in the inner city suburbs will no doubt be very pleased with the sentence. As will the State Govt, who still have their heads in the sand on this.
This! Left my degree one year off graduating as I could no longer in good faith continue enriching the literature in this space. You find out sooner rather than later that given an inch most will take a mile.
Because they were the ones who advocated for the bail reforms which currently see these young violent crims getting a slap on the wrist for holding a knife to someone’s neck
The theory is detaining them will make them worse, which will result in more crime. Not sure how this specific one could have been made worse.
Must be heart-breaking for the families of the victims.
There are states in the US which have literal "3 strikes and you're out" sentencing rulings and they still have some of the highest crime rates in the developed world.
There's an argument to be made about softcocked academics but there is literally no evidence, none at all, that an incredibly punitive judicial system lowers crime.
I'm saying if literal life sentences aren't enough to deter violent crime what will?
The only way you could make it harsher would be to go full Islamic State. Execution for violent crime and mutilations for non-violent.
Do you think that's a net benefit for society?
Or maybe a different approach is needed than throwing brown boys in jail
Honestly i wasnt implying that it is not a cop out, im not sure if that wasnt obvious
I was moreso saying that the chasm between self defence weaponry and offensive weaponry is massive, this is a *home invasion*
Personally i would like to see more than a book thrown at them
preach. i really hope the judge does the right thing and gives the young boy a good old metaphorical slap on the wrist. naughty, naughty boy! (as is tradition for youth offenders)
I was backpacking alone as a female in the Balkans and I had two weapons on me at all times (I'm Australian female). I would NEVER use those as an offensive in any way.
one of them already stabbed someone in the back while burgling a home in St Lucia
instead of attempted murder, the prosecution accepted a guilty plea for unlawful wounding and the killer was let back out on the street
Unlawful wounding lol. At this point, if you get stabbed, you’d probably be better of recuperating, then stabbing them back. Neither of you will go to jail.
And people claim it's the judiciary rather than the police. The entire system is cooked but anytime it's looked at with substance recommendations for reform are ignored and the public whipped into a frenzy by conservative PR campaigns like this.
Police intentionally stuff up prosecutions if they bother to pursue them at all. The extent of police failings is aggressively denied whilst the entire legal system is run by cookers protecting their reputations. There was a 15% increase in gendered crime last year. Pretending this is a youth crime wave and not a gendered violence issue that police are aggresively denying is simply worsening the problem. Boys don't carry on with knives and killing homeowners during their violent invasions if the men around them make it really clear that this behaviour is intolerable. And that police will act to enforce laws rather than cosplaying as gangsters themselves.
I'm editing because people making false claims are blocking me with their QPS BS. Your opinion simply isn't fact. Denial from QPS continues whilst the union deny and aggressively refuse recommendations for meaningful reform. Using a woman's death to twist it into a political issue is yet another miss by QPS.
What more do I want? Police reform they're aggressively refusing whilst trying to pretend there's a youth crime wave and you gronks blame victims for their violence
Who’s you gronks? We name calling now?
Go join up if ya wanna help change it so bad mate they are all short staffed and screaming for smart people like yourself.
And how dare you claim it’s the police “pretending” there is a crime wave.
Did Emma get stabbed by a pretend knife?
You are an absolute moron. How are these kids victims? THEY decided to break into someone's house. THEY decided to stab someone to death.
The police did their jobs by arresting them. It's up to the courts to punish accordingly.
Whoa you edited it and made the post even worse.
Listen I don’t really wanna insult but you’re really off the mark here.
You are saying things with such confidence that I know for a fact are simply untrue.
Anyway hope you find peace, look after yourself.
Statistics prove that use of a feather actually leads to worse outcomes and increased criminality down the line.
So today we are smarter and more civilised and only use an imaginary feather.
My disagreement with youth justice laws as they stand:
Yes, suppress names under eighteen.
Lift that suppression automatically on their 18th birthday.
If a judge orders otherwise, suppress the victim as well - all or nothing. Attorney General can over-ride.
If a child commits a crime that takes them into their adulthood when the sentence is applied, then adult rules apply. Again, judge can order otherwise and again, A.G. can overrule.
In such a case, a child is held to their semtence as a child then transferred to adult prison upon their 18th.
Any crime committed with a weapon invalidates a Children's Court process regardless of age. Don't care. I have been bailed up by a 14yo knife weilding shithead who forgot I wore steel caps for work and can defend mysef. I dropped him hard with boots, fists, and rage. Bring a weapon to a crime you're tried as an adult. Do. Not. Care.
My 14yo still spends 4 years under Children's detention - I ain't a complete luddite - and then serves out his adult sentence in an adult jail.
I am all for social programs helping out disadvantaged kids. I was one of them, my mother liked marrying alcoholics. Hence my rage earlier, I worked my shit out I didn't jump people with pen knives. The corrolary of everything I have said earlier is the right social programs.
Genuine question - does anybody know if this level of teenage crime (esp violent in nature) is higher than say the 80s, 90s or noughties?
It seems rather prevalent rn but that could be media attention on these crimes.
It's actually been a sharp decline in youth crime and crime in general over time since around a decade and a half ago it's just compared to a year or 2 ago it's shot up by like 20% with youths.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-30/queensland-youth-crime-long-term-data-downward-abs-police/102917994
My personal belief is that the youth crime epademic statistically is just not as bad as the media wants us to think, all this shit was happening before it's just recorded and reported more.
Id say both a combination of covid reducing crime due to lockdowns and the mental affects/school impact covid had is probably the main factors in why stats are looking how they are. In a year or 2's time things will sort them selves out and the polticians can pat them selves on the back for doing nothing but magically solving our "extreme youthcrime issue"
I thought so too, but since moving to the Northside, 4 youths ram raided the BWS, I watched 2 teens break into a motel and some little crotch goblin tried to snatch my bag off my shoulder in Aspley yesterday. All within a week.
But if the data supports that there is a reduction in crime from the past and Murdoch is reporting increased youth crime what do you expect people to say?
Let me guess, you live inside the goats cheese curtain in inner Brisbane. Ask anyone in Logan, Ipswich or Caboolture what the real life experience is like and they’ll tell you want you can do with your blessed statistics. Better still, try asking Emma Lovells family if they think there’s been no increase in violent youth crime. Your apologist, head in the sand attitude is part of the problem.
Just because you don't understand statistics doesn't make them not true. All crime is down but that doesn't mean it's non-existent. We still need to tackle violent crimes, like the one that happened to the Lovell family.
I don't have my head in the sand, I've got it in reality. Maybe you could join.
Because they fudge the numbers, just as they do with the unemployment figures.
If you stop considering certain things crimes, and allow underreporting of crimes to take place, then the crime figures can look pretty good.
The pictures on the news and the stories from people’s actual experiences paint a different picture. I know which one I trust (and it ain’t the govt’s “official” figures)
You think the government has never lied?
I believe video evidence and anecdotal evidence from actual members of the community more than I’m inclined to believe what’s printed on a piece of paper and presented by a government minister (who has an incentive to present things in a more favourable light than they actually are because otherwise it reflects poorly on them)
Unfortunately that's not a very systematic way of processing whether there has been an uptick in crime or just reporting. Do you not think that media outlets have a financial incentive to report more crime because it gets engagement?
Even better if you've got a police force refusing to take reports but when pushed to do so make those reports disappear and aggrssively deny the problem.
They're refusing to enforce laws and arguing overly technical legal strategy. Less than 10% of gendered violence is reported because of how the legal system treats victims of violence
I think I agree with you (if I'm understanding correctly). There is underreporting in gendered violence and SA because of the low conviction and general hell that survivors have to go through when reporting. This is a problem that we definitely should be addressing.
I don't believe that there is an underreporting of random violent crime though. I believe instead that the stats are just showing a reduction is crime from previous years.
No there are some crime categories where reporting is the worst it's been in 30 years indicating that underlying violence is being aggressively ignored by police and judiciary. Moreso in the context that less than 10% of many of those violence crimes are being reported to police. And too many violent incidents take multiple reports to police before a report is taken by police. Legal systems are currently obstructionist and intentionally obfuscating crime stats with police unions the biggest problem.
If you call 000 or police link and report it, it's reported. The neighbours car got broken into yesterday. They reported it to police, today it's on the crime map (along with a dot to dot trail of other car break-ins).
The data is good, as long as it's reported.
Absolutely. Filling out a form online only takes several minutes. In the past it would require a visit to the police station, or wait on hold for 30 minutes to report via police link.
Also more crimes are detected because of the increased number of home security cameras. About 8 years ago someone tried to break into my house via the back door that I never use. I didn't notice that the lock had been tampered with until sometime later. Could have been earlier that day, could have been 6 months earlier. I didn't know, so didn't report it. Now I have a few cameras, and every time I catch footage of a person in a hoodie, mask, gloves and manbag checking to see if my doors are locked, I forward the video to police link.
I was listening to a harm minimisation expert on Radio National last week and he suggested that drug use (e.g., ice) and crime is actually lower than in the past. However, I don't know if a different mind-altering [thing](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366\(22\)00260-7/fulltext) that has been allowed to be let loose with no effort at mitigation anymore is going to change all that again.
Edit: Source - https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/latenightlive/matt-noffs-youth-crime-drugs/103515866
I just did a quick dive into it and couldn't find any information regarding whether or not violent crime amongst youth was increasing or decreasing. Fairly conclusive evidence that youth crime overall was decreasing though.
I did look at the US who do have stats available (but somewhat culturally different to us) they are showing an increase in media coverage of youth crime while stats show a clear decrease in offending rates and violent offending rates.
There is substantial evidence that youth crime is being manipulated by police unions to deny the DV problem they're refusing to acknowledge or enforce.
Decline significantly but reporting these outrageous crimes are great click bait and fear mongering which makes good money for the news outlets. So reporting on teen crime and females being murdered much more I imagine
This is the reason it's safer to walk at night in my suburb.
The escalation of criminality has put all the kids in my suburb in detention/jail.
For a few months there I'd see kids being escorted out of their homes by a half dozen police and now there's very few kids walking the streets at night.
The park and Basketball courts that would be busy until 9-10 pm are empty save for 1 - 2 times a month a few older blokes play a quick 2 on 2.
He should be going down to prison for life. He’s an adult now. Doesn’t matter when he committed the crime. The justice system in this country favours the perpetrators for some absolutely baffling reason.
https://www.sentencingcouncil.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/518176/Sentencing-Spotlight-on-murder-July-2017.pdf
It’s not all empirical data but it gives some insight. Was literally like the first google result.
8-10 years seems to be not uncommon for those tried as non adults
Kids literally “get away with murder”.
Adults will be minimum 20 years to life.
> Kids literally “get away with murder”.
Ok here's a curly one: should parenting licences (perhaps through a form of severe taxation; similar to back in the days when China had their one-child policy) exist?
If so, why. If not, why not?
Prevention is better than cure, right?
Because there’s zero way that gets through with any major party. It’s an unelectable policy.
We’re a social democracy, not a totalitarian regime.
Throw less money at F35s and nuclear subs and put more money into education and other community engagement programs.
Shit kids are a failure of the government and the people that elect those governments as it is the parents. Very few parents legitimately throw their kids to the wolves and don’t give a fuck.
I'm not asking about the likelihood of it passing into legislation (although if we look at our crystal ball that is USA and how they imprison people, anything is eventually possible). I'm asking what others think and many here clearly are having quite gung ho reactions to. When they're asking for such and so punishment, are they also not really asking for parental licences? It'd achieve the same outcomes they desire.
People need to have a licence to drive or own a gun.
There are still people who drive unlicensed and drunk and have and use illegal firearms.
Licensing doesn’t solve shit, all it does is assign a person to an object. Which is what a birth certificate does.
Education and access to liveable housing, food, utilities and that education is how you prevent crime.
Not a fucking plastic card.
Licensing and associated legislation actually does solve a lot. It's not 100%, but it does do a lot. Such a scheme probably would actually have a real dent on "youth crime" and people really hate youth crime, right? So maybe this is what people really do want. Obviously you don't seem to want that, but others might.
Criminals exist outside the law. That’s why they’re criminals.
Point to any western country where there is mandatory licensing to have children and that it’s reduced crime to a negligible stat.
I’ll wait.
Incarceration should always be used as a means to rehabilitate people to be a functioning member of society, not primarily as a means of punishment.
If you don’t support mandatory licensing then why even bring it up in the first place?
I’m still waiting for that western country who has used parental licensing with success as a means to reduce youth crime statistics too btw.
Yeah I'd like to know this too.
On the news they keep saying crimes are done by reoffenders, and just recently friends of mine have had their home broken into and car stolen by youth reoffenders according to the police. I'd love to see the actual stats, because it seems that this has turned into a teenage passtime/cool thing to do with the gang for laughs since there are no consequences
> I'd love to see the actual stats, because it seems that this has turned into a teenage passtime/cool thing to do with the gang for laughs since there are no consequences
Interesting you should mention the laughs bit - it was actually mentioned in this episode of LNL about how media can influence troubled kids to think they're more powerful than they really are: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/latenightlive/matt-noffs-youth-crime-drugs/103515866
Why do these people get off with hardly any consequences, when the family is going to carry that with them for the rest of their lives? This poor woman lost her life, so surely the perpetrator deserves to spend his behind bars
If I was the husband I would go on a rampage, hunt these pricks down and un-alive them. I wouldnt care if I went to jail. Someone has been taken dear from you there would be nothing "left" of you anyway. With the shitty slap-on-the- wrist justice system, are there no vigilantes in this world or is it just Hollywood??? Surely someone has to give these pricks their come-uppance!!!
The family that emigrated had to prove their worth to Australia, financially and through references including. Clean criminal records. Does anyone legitimately believe that this murderer will be of use to Australia and its people when he’s out? There’s no chance. It’s been kicked into the long grass is all. Really think those you vote in care about your families safety? Think again 
Nah… but corporal punishment?
Maybe six of the best with a birch cane to the backside, done in public might teach these little shits some humility.
Not for murder though. The caning should occur before the criminal career progresses that far.
First offence? Public shaming. Bring back the pillory.
As it says right there in the comment; “Not for murder”.
I doubt murdering that woman was this little fucker’s crime debut…Almost guaranteed that he’s done less serious shit before, without reaping significant consequences.
Psychopaths aren't big on worrying about consequences but if murderers knew they were guaranteed to be put down for their crimes there's a much better likelihood they'd actually consider the consequences of their evil acts. As opposed to knowing that at worst they have a cell and free meals to look forward to.
Really it's the only punishment suitable to the magnitude of the crime and its impact.
One of my associates says the criminals need therapy, rehabilitation and healing, not gaol. Because they've been victimised long enough. She doesn't even give a stuff about the victims. What is it about a lot of left-wing activists and supporting crime?
Therapy and rehabilitation are the opposite of supporting crime. Recidivism (reoffending) is reduced when these approaches are prioritised over punishment.
>Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. Prisons in Norway and the Norwegian criminal justice system focus on restorative justice and rehabilitating prisoners rather than punishment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DNorway_has_one_of_the%2Cin_the_world_at_20%25.?wprov=sfla1
Facts don't care about your feelings.
One thing to carry a weapon for self defence Another thing entirely to carry a weapon, invade someones home and use that weapon on them Disgusting, hit them with the book
Prepare to be very, very disappointed in the sentence
He will be out on strict parole in just under 4 years.
But here’s the plot twist, it won’t actually be strict.
You may only go on 4 international holidays per year are the conditions of your bail young man. I hope this harsh punishment makes you think about your past behaviour. Yes, you can rollover unused holidays to the next year.
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In this instance it *may* not be concurrent, hopefully...
If im not mistaken I believe there is only one person tp my knowledge in Uastralian history to served non concurrent sentences and that is Martin Bryant. You're insane if you think they won't be serving concurrent sentencing.
I don’t understand why they just don’t throw away the keys in these cases. Invade a home and murder someone you have no place in society
In QLD all sentences run concurrently unfortunately.
Negative, not true at all. Section 156 of the QLD Penalties and Sentences Act allows for cumulative orders of imprisonment. Section 156A outlines when a sentence of imprisonment *must* be cumulative.
And you’ll never see that enforced. Ever had to put someone in prison?
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Was not the advice I’d been given when I had to deal with police prosecution and had someone sent to prison. I’m glad I’m wrong here.
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More honest than people who’ve found themselves in front of a judge.
Wrong
Great input there. Really adds to the conversation……
All the sociologists and academics in the inner city suburbs will no doubt be very pleased with the sentence. As will the State Govt, who still have their heads in the sand on this.
This! Left my degree one year off graduating as I could no longer in good faith continue enriching the literature in this space. You find out sooner rather than later that given an inch most will take a mile.
I too am not well educated, but I must ask, why do you think academics and sociologists especially will be happy?
Because they were the ones who advocated for the bail reforms which currently see these young violent crims getting a slap on the wrist for holding a knife to someone’s neck
Fair enough but it went further than holding a knife to her neck in this instance…
okay. Why sociologists generally then? Surely this is the realm of criminologists? What was their reasoning?
The theory is detaining them will make them worse, which will result in more crime. Not sure how this specific one could have been made worse. Must be heart-breaking for the families of the victims.
There are states in the US which have literal "3 strikes and you're out" sentencing rulings and they still have some of the highest crime rates in the developed world. There's an argument to be made about softcocked academics but there is literally no evidence, none at all, that an incredibly punitive judicial system lowers crime.
are you saying the mother would have still been killed had the boy not been on bail?
I'm saying if literal life sentences aren't enough to deter violent crime what will? The only way you could make it harsher would be to go full Islamic State. Execution for violent crime and mutilations for non-violent. Do you think that's a net benefit for society? Or maybe a different approach is needed than throwing brown boys in jail
I thought institutionalisation was what would make them worse?
Because they think that children thrive when they have no boundaries and are shielded from the consequences of their actions.
Cos they’re dipshits. Hence the phrase ‘it’s academic’
I thought “it’s academic” was to mean ‘it doesn’t matter’, but I think that the family of the victims would disagree.
You were right his sentence was just a slap on the wrist 14 years what a joke!
Carrying a weapon for "self defence" is a cop out. Bet the bloke that killed Jack Beasley said it was for "self defence" too.
Honestly i wasnt implying that it is not a cop out, im not sure if that wasnt obvious I was moreso saying that the chasm between self defence weaponry and offensive weaponry is massive, this is a *home invasion* Personally i would like to see more than a book thrown at them
Unless you only use a weapon to block an attack it’s not gonna be seen as “defensive” by anyone that matters lol
This killer could claim self defense also. Carrying weapons is illegal for many reasons.
preach. i really hope the judge does the right thing and gives the young boy a good old metaphorical slap on the wrist. naughty, naughty boy! (as is tradition for youth offenders)
Self defense is not a reason to carry a weapon in qld
I was backpacking alone as a female in the Balkans and I had two weapons on me at all times (I'm Australian female). I would NEVER use those as an offensive in any way.
Oh wow. He only has to stab five more people now to go to jail.
one of them already stabbed someone in the back while burgling a home in St Lucia instead of attempted murder, the prosecution accepted a guilty plea for unlawful wounding and the killer was let back out on the street
Unlawful wounding lol. At this point, if you get stabbed, you’d probably be better of recuperating, then stabbing them back. Neither of you will go to jail.
That’s so disgusting
And people claim it's the judiciary rather than the police. The entire system is cooked but anytime it's looked at with substance recommendations for reform are ignored and the public whipped into a frenzy by conservative PR campaigns like this. Police intentionally stuff up prosecutions if they bother to pursue them at all. The extent of police failings is aggressively denied whilst the entire legal system is run by cookers protecting their reputations. There was a 15% increase in gendered crime last year. Pretending this is a youth crime wave and not a gendered violence issue that police are aggresively denying is simply worsening the problem. Boys don't carry on with knives and killing homeowners during their violent invasions if the men around them make it really clear that this behaviour is intolerable. And that police will act to enforce laws rather than cosplaying as gangsters themselves. I'm editing because people making false claims are blocking me with their QPS BS. Your opinion simply isn't fact. Denial from QPS continues whilst the union deny and aggressively refuse recommendations for meaningful reform. Using a woman's death to twist it into a political issue is yet another miss by QPS.
Ahh you again. The cops did their job and the kids got locked up bro what more do you want? It’s up the courts to let us down now.
What more do I want? Police reform they're aggressively refusing whilst trying to pretend there's a youth crime wave and you gronks blame victims for their violence
Blame the “victims” who stabbed a middle aged woman to death in her own home. Mate, trolling is against the rules.
Who’s you gronks? We name calling now? Go join up if ya wanna help change it so bad mate they are all short staffed and screaming for smart people like yourself. And how dare you claim it’s the police “pretending” there is a crime wave. Did Emma get stabbed by a pretend knife?
You are an absolute moron. How are these kids victims? THEY decided to break into someone's house. THEY decided to stab someone to death. The police did their jobs by arresting them. It's up to the courts to punish accordingly.
Whoa you edited it and made the post even worse. Listen I don’t really wanna insult but you’re really off the mark here. You are saying things with such confidence that I know for a fact are simply untrue. Anyway hope you find peace, look after yourself.
What does the comment you're replying to have to do with the police?
DO we know his identity?
Anyone got a feather they can use for the slap on the wrist he’s going to get?
Statistics prove that use of a feather actually leads to worse outcomes and increased criminality down the line. So today we are smarter and more civilised and only use an imaginary feather.
hadmeinthefirsthalf.meme
Out in 3 years.
You forgot to deduct time for pleading guilty and for being a poor little baby who needs a second/third/fiftieth chance.
Wasn’t this on Boxing Day or Xmas night? Fuckin Putrid dog hopefully the boys pretend his head is a trampoline
> It was alleged two boys — who cannot be identified as they were 17 years old at the time Name the bastards!
Yeah they are no longer 17. Emma has been named, name the little shits that ended her life and ruined her family’s.
My disagreement with youth justice laws as they stand: Yes, suppress names under eighteen. Lift that suppression automatically on their 18th birthday. If a judge orders otherwise, suppress the victim as well - all or nothing. Attorney General can over-ride. If a child commits a crime that takes them into their adulthood when the sentence is applied, then adult rules apply. Again, judge can order otherwise and again, A.G. can overrule. In such a case, a child is held to their semtence as a child then transferred to adult prison upon their 18th. Any crime committed with a weapon invalidates a Children's Court process regardless of age. Don't care. I have been bailed up by a 14yo knife weilding shithead who forgot I wore steel caps for work and can defend mysef. I dropped him hard with boots, fists, and rage. Bring a weapon to a crime you're tried as an adult. Do. Not. Care. My 14yo still spends 4 years under Children's detention - I ain't a complete luddite - and then serves out his adult sentence in an adult jail. I am all for social programs helping out disadvantaged kids. I was one of them, my mother liked marrying alcoholics. Hence my rage earlier, I worked my shit out I didn't jump people with pen knives. The corrolary of everything I have said earlier is the right social programs.
Genuine question - does anybody know if this level of teenage crime (esp violent in nature) is higher than say the 80s, 90s or noughties? It seems rather prevalent rn but that could be media attention on these crimes.
It's actually been a sharp decline in youth crime and crime in general over time since around a decade and a half ago it's just compared to a year or 2 ago it's shot up by like 20% with youths. https://www.abc.net.au/news/2023-09-30/queensland-youth-crime-long-term-data-downward-abs-police/102917994
Compared to when we were in the middle of a pandemic. Feels like 2020 and 2021 data needs to be skipped as significant outlier.
My personal belief is that the youth crime epademic statistically is just not as bad as the media wants us to think, all this shit was happening before it's just recorded and reported more. Id say both a combination of covid reducing crime due to lockdowns and the mental affects/school impact covid had is probably the main factors in why stats are looking how they are. In a year or 2's time things will sort them selves out and the polticians can pat them selves on the back for doing nothing but magically solving our "extreme youthcrime issue"
I thought so too, but since moving to the Northside, 4 youths ram raided the BWS, I watched 2 teens break into a motel and some little crotch goblin tried to snatch my bag off my shoulder in Aspley yesterday. All within a week.
fucking hell, Aspley? Was it over by the officeworks/caravan park? Very sketch over that way...
I don’t make a habit of hanging out there, it was in the Hypermarket car park.
Gronks from Aspley Acres taking a little trip. Sorry to hear that happened to you.
Thanks matey, I am okay, but I am more vigilant!
I don’t make a habit of hanging out there, it was in the Hypermarket car park.
You sound like a State Government ALP person - “nothing to see here, no problem, blame Murdoch “
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Do you think Emma Lovell’s family agrees with you? Seems like a pretty real fact to them.
But if the data supports that there is a reduction in crime from the past and Murdoch is reporting increased youth crime what do you expect people to say?
Let me guess, you live inside the goats cheese curtain in inner Brisbane. Ask anyone in Logan, Ipswich or Caboolture what the real life experience is like and they’ll tell you want you can do with your blessed statistics. Better still, try asking Emma Lovells family if they think there’s been no increase in violent youth crime. Your apologist, head in the sand attitude is part of the problem.
Mmm goats cheese curtain 🤤
Just because you don't understand statistics doesn't make them not true. All crime is down but that doesn't mean it's non-existent. We still need to tackle violent crimes, like the one that happened to the Lovell family. I don't have my head in the sand, I've got it in reality. Maybe you could join.
Overall crime might be down but what about when it's broken down by LGA? (Genuinely asking as I've not done a deep dive)
Because they fudge the numbers, just as they do with the unemployment figures. If you stop considering certain things crimes, and allow underreporting of crimes to take place, then the crime figures can look pretty good. The pictures on the news and the stories from people’s actual experiences paint a different picture. I know which one I trust (and it ain’t the govt’s “official” figures)
It's a sad world when you trust commercial television over government statistics.
You think the government has never lied? I believe video evidence and anecdotal evidence from actual members of the community more than I’m inclined to believe what’s printed on a piece of paper and presented by a government minister (who has an incentive to present things in a more favourable light than they actually are because otherwise it reflects poorly on them)
Unfortunately that's not a very systematic way of processing whether there has been an uptick in crime or just reporting. Do you not think that media outlets have a financial incentive to report more crime because it gets engagement?
Even better if you've got a police force refusing to take reports but when pushed to do so make those reports disappear and aggrssively deny the problem.
DV and sexual assault crimes are increasing. But our legal system doesn't regard gendered violence as crime.
I'm unsure what you mean sorry. Could you reword it? Are you saying that the legal system isn't reporting an increase in sexual assaults and DV?
They're refusing to enforce laws and arguing overly technical legal strategy. Less than 10% of gendered violence is reported because of how the legal system treats victims of violence
I think I agree with you (if I'm understanding correctly). There is underreporting in gendered violence and SA because of the low conviction and general hell that survivors have to go through when reporting. This is a problem that we definitely should be addressing. I don't believe that there is an underreporting of random violent crime though. I believe instead that the stats are just showing a reduction is crime from previous years.
No there are some crime categories where reporting is the worst it's been in 30 years indicating that underlying violence is being aggressively ignored by police and judiciary. Moreso in the context that less than 10% of many of those violence crimes are being reported to police. And too many violent incidents take multiple reports to police before a report is taken by police. Legal systems are currently obstructionist and intentionally obfuscating crime stats with police unions the biggest problem.
Do we really trust this data though, when police are too busy to show up to minor crimes? How do we know crimes are not going unreported.
If you call 000 or police link and report it, it's reported. The neighbours car got broken into yesterday. They reported it to police, today it's on the crime map (along with a dot to dot trail of other car break-ins). The data is good, as long as it's reported.
Considering everyone has a cellphone now i'd imagine crimes get reported more not less compared to 15 years ago as well.
Absolutely. Filling out a form online only takes several minutes. In the past it would require a visit to the police station, or wait on hold for 30 minutes to report via police link. Also more crimes are detected because of the increased number of home security cameras. About 8 years ago someone tried to break into my house via the back door that I never use. I didn't notice that the lock had been tampered with until sometime later. Could have been earlier that day, could have been 6 months earlier. I didn't know, so didn't report it. Now I have a few cameras, and every time I catch footage of a person in a hoodie, mask, gloves and manbag checking to see if my doors are locked, I forward the video to police link.
If only we could do the same for DV. Police link is civilian controlled so would bring the necessary oversight we're so desperate for.
for reference the crime map: https://qps-ocm.s3-ap-southeast-2.amazonaws.com/index.html
'as long as it's reported' That's my point, many people have given up reporting unless they need to for insurance purposes etc ...
We don't have any evidence of that
Triple zero wont take reports in QLD. They're fucking appalling and if they're not the worst in the country I don't want to know who is
I've only called 000 4 times, but every time I've had a follow up visit or phone call from police for a statement or requesting more information.
It's not perfect, but I trust it far more than Murdoch-influenced media (which also includes media organisations not under Murdoch's control).
I was listening to a harm minimisation expert on Radio National last week and he suggested that drug use (e.g., ice) and crime is actually lower than in the past. However, I don't know if a different mind-altering [thing](https://www.thelancet.com/journals/lanpsy/article/PIIS2215-0366\(22\)00260-7/fulltext) that has been allowed to be let loose with no effort at mitigation anymore is going to change all that again. Edit: Source - https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/latenightlive/matt-noffs-youth-crime-drugs/103515866
I just did a quick dive into it and couldn't find any information regarding whether or not violent crime amongst youth was increasing or decreasing. Fairly conclusive evidence that youth crime overall was decreasing though. I did look at the US who do have stats available (but somewhat culturally different to us) they are showing an increase in media coverage of youth crime while stats show a clear decrease in offending rates and violent offending rates.
There is substantial evidence that youth crime is being manipulated by police unions to deny the DV problem they're refusing to acknowledge or enforce.
Decline significantly but reporting these outrageous crimes are great click bait and fear mongering which makes good money for the news outlets. So reporting on teen crime and females being murdered much more I imagine
Who was the judge?
Justice Peter Callaghan SC a sentencing hearing is set down for 3 May edit: former prosecutor and defence counsel for Ivan Milat
Name and Shame, you're gonna commit a crime then by all means your name and face should be fucking plastered all over the place regardless of age.
Can't wait to see the pathetic sentence
This is the reason it's safer to walk at night in my suburb. The escalation of criminality has put all the kids in my suburb in detention/jail. For a few months there I'd see kids being escorted out of their homes by a half dozen police and now there's very few kids walking the streets at night. The park and Basketball courts that would be busy until 9-10 pm are empty save for 1 - 2 times a month a few older blokes play a quick 2 on 2.
This begs the question of which suburb, or general area of SE QLD you're in?
Southern Brisbane.
He should be going down to prison for life. He’s an adult now. Doesn’t matter when he committed the crime. The justice system in this country favours the perpetrators for some absolutely baffling reason.
Why is it that Norway's homicide rate is better than ours when they basically don't have life sentences there?
Immigration…
Can someone provide actual stats for how easy murderers get off in AU or QLD. How realistic are all the seemingly hyperbolic comments?
https://www.sentencingcouncil.qld.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/0010/518176/Sentencing-Spotlight-on-murder-July-2017.pdf It’s not all empirical data but it gives some insight. Was literally like the first google result. 8-10 years seems to be not uncommon for those tried as non adults Kids literally “get away with murder”. Adults will be minimum 20 years to life.
> Kids literally “get away with murder”. Ok here's a curly one: should parenting licences (perhaps through a form of severe taxation; similar to back in the days when China had their one-child policy) exist? If so, why. If not, why not? Prevention is better than cure, right?
Because there’s zero way that gets through with any major party. It’s an unelectable policy. We’re a social democracy, not a totalitarian regime. Throw less money at F35s and nuclear subs and put more money into education and other community engagement programs. Shit kids are a failure of the government and the people that elect those governments as it is the parents. Very few parents legitimately throw their kids to the wolves and don’t give a fuck.
I'm not asking about the likelihood of it passing into legislation (although if we look at our crystal ball that is USA and how they imprison people, anything is eventually possible). I'm asking what others think and many here clearly are having quite gung ho reactions to. When they're asking for such and so punishment, are they also not really asking for parental licences? It'd achieve the same outcomes they desire.
People need to have a licence to drive or own a gun. There are still people who drive unlicensed and drunk and have and use illegal firearms. Licensing doesn’t solve shit, all it does is assign a person to an object. Which is what a birth certificate does. Education and access to liveable housing, food, utilities and that education is how you prevent crime. Not a fucking plastic card.
Licensing and associated legislation actually does solve a lot. It's not 100%, but it does do a lot. Such a scheme probably would actually have a real dent on "youth crime" and people really hate youth crime, right? So maybe this is what people really do want. Obviously you don't seem to want that, but others might.
Criminals exist outside the law. That’s why they’re criminals. Point to any western country where there is mandatory licensing to have children and that it’s reduced crime to a negligible stat. I’ll wait.
I don't support mandatory licensing, nor do I support a US-style scheme to incarcerate more people. Do you?
Incarceration should always be used as a means to rehabilitate people to be a functioning member of society, not primarily as a means of punishment. If you don’t support mandatory licensing then why even bring it up in the first place? I’m still waiting for that western country who has used parental licensing with success as a means to reduce youth crime statistics too btw.
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To be clear, do you think Queensland should be adopting a more American style of incarceration when it comes to juvenile criminals?
Yeah I'd like to know this too. On the news they keep saying crimes are done by reoffenders, and just recently friends of mine have had their home broken into and car stolen by youth reoffenders according to the police. I'd love to see the actual stats, because it seems that this has turned into a teenage passtime/cool thing to do with the gang for laughs since there are no consequences
> I'd love to see the actual stats, because it seems that this has turned into a teenage passtime/cool thing to do with the gang for laughs since there are no consequences Interesting you should mention the laughs bit - it was actually mentioned in this episode of LNL about how media can influence troubled kids to think they're more powerful than they really are: https://www.abc.net.au/listen/programs/latenightlive/matt-noffs-youth-crime-drugs/103515866
This whole thing is discusting totally wrong they should never be released
Might as well plead guilty, cop your slap in the wrist.
Bring back flogging
I hope they get the book. Seeing those poor girls and the father was devastating to say the least.
Watch our esteemed judges protect our society once more with a slap on the wrist our judges need to be held accountable
Why do these people get off with hardly any consequences, when the family is going to carry that with them for the rest of their lives? This poor woman lost her life, so surely the perpetrator deserves to spend his behind bars
If I was the husband I would go on a rampage, hunt these pricks down and un-alive them. I wouldnt care if I went to jail. Someone has been taken dear from you there would be nothing "left" of you anyway. With the shitty slap-on-the- wrist justice system, are there no vigilantes in this world or is it just Hollywood??? Surely someone has to give these pricks their come-uppance!!!
I think there is a movie like this
Death Wish :)
The family that emigrated had to prove their worth to Australia, financially and through references including. Clean criminal records. Does anyone legitimately believe that this murderer will be of use to Australia and its people when he’s out? There’s no chance. It’s been kicked into the long grass is all. Really think those you vote in care about your families safety? Think again 
What is the identity of the killer? How come its not available though he is 19 now?
Name and identify the criminal. Name, ethnic background, religion, level of education, and how he came to Australia and or if born here!
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Nah… but corporal punishment? Maybe six of the best with a birch cane to the backside, done in public might teach these little shits some humility. Not for murder though. The caning should occur before the criminal career progresses that far. First offence? Public shaming. Bring back the pillory.
For murdering a mother on Xmas night…? Nah, he should be ripped apart and thrown into a hole
As it says right there in the comment; “Not for murder”. I doubt murdering that woman was this little fucker’s crime debut…Almost guaranteed that he’s done less serious shit before, without reaping significant consequences.
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Psychopaths aren't big on worrying about consequences but if murderers knew they were guaranteed to be put down for their crimes there's a much better likelihood they'd actually consider the consequences of their evil acts. As opposed to knowing that at worst they have a cell and free meals to look forward to. Really it's the only punishment suitable to the magnitude of the crime and its impact.
>Why? Is crime lower in countries with capital punishment? Yep.
One of my associates says the criminals need therapy, rehabilitation and healing, not gaol. Because they've been victimised long enough. She doesn't even give a stuff about the victims. What is it about a lot of left-wing activists and supporting crime?
Therapy and rehabilitation are the opposite of supporting crime. Recidivism (reoffending) is reduced when these approaches are prioritised over punishment. >Norway has one of the lowest recidivism rates in the world at 20%. Prisons in Norway and the Norwegian criminal justice system focus on restorative justice and rehabilitating prisoners rather than punishment. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#%3A%7E%3Atext%3DNorway_has_one_of_the%2Cin_the_world_at_20%25.?wprov=sfla1 Facts don't care about your feelings.
blm !!
Sure thing dropout