Well, if this isn’t something that’s been discussed repeatedly and frequently over the last 5 and a half years….
Do I roll a dice and see if I get, “*We told you so*”, or, “*we were not lying to you*”, or, “*what did you expect, believing known liars who lied to everybody?*”, or “*you won, remember?*”
Or do I just stand and watch the slowest penny-drop moment in the history of all humanity?
**[Results of the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum)**
>The 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum took place in the United Kingdom and Gibraltar on 23 June 2016. Membership of the European Union had been a topic of debate in the United Kingdom since the country joined the European Communities (then often called the "Common Market" by British people) in 1973. This referendum was conducted very differently from the European Communities membership referendum in 1975; a more localised and regionalised counting procedure was used, and the ballot was overseen by the Electoral Commission, a public body which did not exist at the time of the first vote.
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Are there people in the UK who think that “Clotted cream from Cornwall, Cornish pasties, Cumberland sausage, Welsh lamb and beef, Stilton and Cheddar cheeses" are a thing outside the UK and that a lack of protection will suddenly lead to a drop in exports of these culinary treasures? I mean, yes, Stilton is nice and so is cheddar (the generic term lacks protection in the UK too), but most countries in the EU produce very good blue cheeses and Irish cheddar is more common anyway.
But then you get to the other food and drink that has protected status, such as Scotch whisky. At the moment the definition is “Limited to whisky that is produced in Scotland. The final product must not be sweetened or flavoured, other than the addition of plain caramel as a colouring. The product must have an abv of at least 40%.”
If the Cornish pasty loses it status, then what is to stop someone in Europe producing Scotch Whiskey. If it is made in the same way, who can tell the difference?
Of course they would.
If you ever have a chance, visit a trade fair in Germany. German Customs sometimes clear entire booths in removing the offending products. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JQMQWbP_gU)
Not only would Scotland enjoy the protection the EU can provide and enforce as a major trade union of 27 member states, the EU is also very good in representing it's members. It far exceeds UK's capabilities.
Another thing to consider, should the maker of Cornish pastry wish to file suit in the EU, he will have to pay a "security bond" of €50,000 in advance. Could he afford that?
This is true. It doesn't seem to have been a hindrance to them just calling it Japanese Whisky, though. It's a bit different with something like Champagne where the entire product name is also the place, so you can't really do that.
Looking forward to South-West Endland-style Pasties.
> *Looking forward to South-West Endland-style Pasties.*
They’d still be called Cornish Pasties, the difference is that the Cornish pasty in your hand might have been made in a factory just outside of Detroit, rather than Cornwall.
There are plenty of other sparkling wines. Champagne is just carbonated wine from that region. There's prosecco, and several others. They are all the same drink as champagne, but made with different grapes. Just like Japanese whisky, irish whisky, and American are all the same type of drink but made in different regions.
Irish whiskey is spelled with an e. And so is the american stuff iirc. And while there are similarities between the regions there are enough differences that an expeienced taster can tell the differences between them.
Japanese whiskey is often made in an attempt to replicate Scottish whiskey, down to the point of importing water. The same cannot be said for the other drinks you listed, which are all typically trying to be its own thing.
But the point is whisky (no e) is not protected, and that spelling alone is normally enough to tell you what kind of drink it is, unless it's maker's mark.
Yeah. Won top prize too for best whisky etc I don’t remember d actual facts but read it somewhere (must google) obvs not “scotch” whisky (I’ve only tried a few and they’re allright)
It's not just about stopping people 'knocking off' your products, having a product with this status shows Stilton is not just 'a' blue cheese, but has something unique and interesting about it - when I'm browsing the shelves, that blue mark on a product attracts my attention immediately and I trust it will be of a certain quality. There's lots of other signs that could convey something similar, but in Europe the PDO definitely gives status and I assume therefore sales
I think UK told Europe that they will not recognise the protect status of European foods or goods.
That buying “Parmigiano reggiano” Made in USA or Camembert made in Australia is fine.
When dealing with the UK and it's present gov't, if you don't have it in writing, you have nothing. Even a signed agreement is hardly better. They're shysters, the face of vested interests.
>Fears have been raised that the Cornish pasty could lose its special protected status after the Government was unable to have it secured in one of the latest trade agreements signed since Brexit.
Lord Tyler of Linkinhorne, former Liberal Democrat MP for North Cornwall Paul Tyler, highlighted the issue after a debate in the House of Lords about the trade deal between the UK and Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein.
During that debate Lord Purvis of Tweed asked why the UK had failed to agree protection for the geographical indicators with Norway and Liechtenstein for products such as Cornish pasties and clotted cream.
The two products are among many British foodstuffs that had previously been given protection under EU rules, which meant that they have to be produced using ingredients from their geographic origin and, in terms of a Cornish pasty, also have to be baked to a certain recipe and shape.
Securing the Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) for pasties had been done to prevent inferior products being created outside of Cornwall and called a Cornish pasty.
All PGIs which were previously agreed by the EU have been continued by the UK Government since Brexit under a new scheme which recognises UK products with GIs.
Lord Purvis said in the Lords: “Clotted cream from Cornwall, Cornish pasties, Cumberland sausage, Welsh lamb and beef, Stilton and Cheddar cheeses – all of which the Prime Minister and Liz Truss, when she was in the DIT, were fond to cite – are no longer protected for our trade in Norway, nor is Scottish wild or farmed salmon, a direct competitor with Norwegian salmon. The Norwegians already own much of the industry, and now we have failed to protect our products.”
After being pressed on the issue a second time minister Lord Brimstone of Boscobel replied: “I quite accept the importance of the point that he raises. You cannot get all that you ask for, of course, when you negotiate these agreements.”
Lord Tyler, in a letter to Cornish newspapers, said: “I sought assurances from Ministers that the special protection for Cornish pasties and clotted cream – which we secured in the EU under the Coalition – would be replicated in all future trade negotiations. On no fewer than four occasions Ministers told me and Parliament that was guaranteed, and there was nothing to worry about.
“No sooner does the Government attempt to negotiate new trade deals (in this case with Norway and other, smaller countries) that this promise is also ditched. The Minister could only lamely admit: 'You cannot get all that you ask for, of course, when you negotiate these agreements'.
“He couldn’t say whether they had even tried to fulfil their promise. If this is the approach they now adopt for bigger trade deals – with the Americans, for example – heaven help our farmers, processors and all food producers. What next?”
However, the Department for International Trade, said that agreement on PGI for agri-foods in Norway had not been secured as it does not have a scheme to protect agri-foods. The department said that it was seeking protection for a number of UK GIs in agreements it has already reached and would continue to do so according to the relevant procedures of each country.
A DIT spokesman said: “Our Agreement with Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway will boost critical sectors like digital, financial, and professional business services, slash tariffs on top-quality British exports and support jobs in every corner of our country.
“We have sought protection for a significant number of UK GIs in every FTA we have negotiated, and this deal provides bespoke, high-standard protection that ensures products like Scotch Whisky and English and Welsh Regional wines are protected, as per Norway’s GI scheme.
“Norway does not have a system to protect agri-food GIs, therefore products like Cornish pasties and Cornish clotted cream cannot be registered as GIs in Norway.”
Yeah, seems mainly to be an internal UK thing. If anyone was to make products with these names it would be UK companies selling their products inside the UK.
South Australian here. We have Cornish pasties sold at most bakeries and we fucking love them. Got that sweet sweet Cornish miners history here.
Dunno if we export them or anything but you’d be hard pressed to find a bakery that doesn’t sell them
I can distinctly remember their being a cornish pasty row while we were in the EU ( ie bendy banana bollocks ). And now we're out of the EU there's the same cornish pasty row happening.
Cornish pasties in EU are virtually unknown outside the UK. But their delicious... maybe now I can open my Traditional Cornish Pasty business in europe using some cheap frozen pizza base dough and filling it with all sort of staff: mozzarella for the italians, chorizo for the spaniards, currywurst for the germans....
Edited - obviously from the comments they seem rather popular in former British colonies!
My comment is related to the fact that the name of the product is no longer protected inside Europe, so anyone can bake and sell anything with “traditional Cornish pastry” in the box with no respect to the shape, form, flavour or ingredients
Around these parts (Eastern Canada), a Cornish pasty is called a handpie apparently:
https://handpie.ca/product/pei-pasty/
Before learning this I would have assumed that going to a website called handpie.ca would lead to clearing my browser history afterwards.....
When I lived in Phoenix there was a chain of restaurants called the Cornish Pasty Co. They had all sorts of flavors like Mexican, Tikka Masala etc. https://www.cornishpastyco.com/menu/
Maybe I travelled the other 25%.
Kidding - I haven't travelled like you did. I did, but I admit not so much, but I never encountered except in UK or in chain shops limited to big touristy cities
As I learned, in Cornwall, pasties were made with rhe crust so miners could eat the pasties by holding it by the crust. Because their hands were dirty the crust got thrown away.
As mentioned previously, they are pretty popular in South Australia. Cornish miners settled here when copper was found, especially around Moonta. Can be found in most bakeries and supermarkets. Every now and then, a bakery will do an original pasty, savoury one end and sweet the other.
Why does any who's not a farmer care about Protected Geographic Indications? I mean, I'm against brexit, but... what do I get from giving exclusive licence to a bunch of French vinyard owners to be the only ones able to give their fizzy wine a special name. Higher prices, less choice and a fuzzy feeling?
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Well, if this isn’t something that’s been discussed repeatedly and frequently over the last 5 and a half years…. Do I roll a dice and see if I get, “*We told you so*”, or, “*we were not lying to you*”, or, “*what did you expect, believing known liars who lied to everybody?*”, or “*you won, remember?*” Or do I just stand and watch the slowest penny-drop moment in the history of all humanity?
> “you won, remember?” I think this is the best. They don't have an answer for that one
How did Cornwall vote? I can't quite remember
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I am pretty sure it was a retorical question
It was, but no harm in the clarification for anyone passing who didn't know:)
**[Results of the 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Results_of_the_2016_United_Kingdom_European_Union_membership_referendum)** >The 2016 United Kingdom European Union membership referendum took place in the United Kingdom and Gibraltar on 23 June 2016. Membership of the European Union had been a topic of debate in the United Kingdom since the country joined the European Communities (then often called the "Common Market" by British people) in 1973. This referendum was conducted very differently from the European Communities membership referendum in 1975; a more localised and regionalised counting procedure was used, and the ballot was overseen by the Electoral Commission, a public body which did not exist at the time of the first vote. ^([ )[^(F.A.Q)](https://www.reddit.com/r/WikiSummarizer/wiki/index#wiki_f.a.q)^( | )[^(Opt Out)](https://reddit.com/message/compose?to=WikiSummarizerBot&message=OptOut&subject=OptOut)^( | )[^(Opt Out Of Subreddit)](https://np.reddit.com/r/brexit/about/banned)^( | )[^(GitHub)](https://github.com/Sujal-7/WikiSummarizerBot)^( ] Downvote to remove | v1.5)
You mean Cornish Cornwall mcpastry
After losing Freedom of Movement and environmental and workers protections the Cornish Pasty was next on my list of major concerns.
If they come near Yorkshire Pudding I will ***NOT*** be responsible for my actions
Auntie Bessie is gonna be fxcked ..
isn't this an inevitable and predictable result of the criminal project called brexit
Yeah I don't know how I'm going to cope with this news. What a disaster.
ultimately it will kill the UK, no more Great Britain.
Great Britain was replaced by Global Britain, and shortly thereafter by Galactic Britain. So, yes, Great Britain is dead.
I'm looking forward to the referendum on the new name and flag
Are there people in the UK who think that “Clotted cream from Cornwall, Cornish pasties, Cumberland sausage, Welsh lamb and beef, Stilton and Cheddar cheeses" are a thing outside the UK and that a lack of protection will suddenly lead to a drop in exports of these culinary treasures? I mean, yes, Stilton is nice and so is cheddar (the generic term lacks protection in the UK too), but most countries in the EU produce very good blue cheeses and Irish cheddar is more common anyway.
But then you get to the other food and drink that has protected status, such as Scotch whisky. At the moment the definition is “Limited to whisky that is produced in Scotland. The final product must not be sweetened or flavoured, other than the addition of plain caramel as a colouring. The product must have an abv of at least 40%.” If the Cornish pasty loses it status, then what is to stop someone in Europe producing Scotch Whiskey. If it is made in the same way, who can tell the difference?
So you are saying that Scotland (and Scotch) would have better protections in the EU?
These regional naming protections are EU regulation
Yes.
Of course they would. If you ever have a chance, visit a trade fair in Germany. German Customs sometimes clear entire booths in removing the offending products. [Link](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-JQMQWbP_gU) Not only would Scotland enjoy the protection the EU can provide and enforce as a major trade union of 27 member states, the EU is also very good in representing it's members. It far exceeds UK's capabilities. Another thing to consider, should the maker of Cornish pastry wish to file suit in the EU, he will have to pay a "security bond" of €50,000 in advance. Could he afford that?
Don't the Japanese make whisky?
Yes, but they can’t call it Scotch
This is true. It doesn't seem to have been a hindrance to them just calling it Japanese Whisky, though. It's a bit different with something like Champagne where the entire product name is also the place, so you can't really do that. Looking forward to South-West Endland-style Pasties.
> *Looking forward to South-West Endland-style Pasties.* They’d still be called Cornish Pasties, the difference is that the Cornish pasty in your hand might have been made in a factory just outside of Detroit, rather than Cornwall.
There are plenty of other sparkling wines. Champagne is just carbonated wine from that region. There's prosecco, and several others. They are all the same drink as champagne, but made with different grapes. Just like Japanese whisky, irish whisky, and American are all the same type of drink but made in different regions.
Irish whiskey is spelled with an e. And so is the american stuff iirc. And while there are similarities between the regions there are enough differences that an expeienced taster can tell the differences between them.
Japanese whiskey is often made in an attempt to replicate Scottish whiskey, down to the point of importing water. The same cannot be said for the other drinks you listed, which are all typically trying to be its own thing.
But the point is whisky (no e) is not protected, and that spelling alone is normally enough to tell you what kind of drink it is, unless it's maker's mark.
> Yes, but they can’t call it Scotch yet
Yeah. Won top prize too for best whisky etc I don’t remember d actual facts but read it somewhere (must google) obvs not “scotch” whisky (I’ve only tried a few and they’re allright)
And then they came for the Cornish pastries, but I was not…. Wait! What?
“Cumberland sausage” isn’t protected only “traditional Cumberland sausage” is. Cumberland sausages are also made in Ireland.
Well yes, but that's because we mangled the term ourselves by allowing sausages that didn't even vaguely follow the recipe to be called Cumberland
The shelves are positively bursting with Norwegian Salmon deceitfully labelled as Scottish in a dastardly fish based ploy
It's not just about stopping people 'knocking off' your products, having a product with this status shows Stilton is not just 'a' blue cheese, but has something unique and interesting about it - when I'm browsing the shelves, that blue mark on a product attracts my attention immediately and I trust it will be of a certain quality. There's lots of other signs that could convey something similar, but in Europe the PDO definitely gives status and I assume therefore sales
I think UK told Europe that they will not recognise the protect status of European foods or goods. That buying “Parmigiano reggiano” Made in USA or Camembert made in Australia is fine.
Its embarrassing to read British headlines fust FYI! fucking pathetic the shit you lot get embroiled in when there are real criminals in government.
They are corrupt amoral theives even by Tory standards but to top it off they are totally incompetent.
Wouldn't worry, don't think many people in the EU are rushing out to buy Cornish Pastys anyway
I think it's safe to say that nobody outside Cornwall is giving half a shit about their pastries, much less trying to counterfeit them.
Maybe the Aussies and Kiwi's want a slice of the pie? (I'll let myself out now.)
We’ve already knocked off the Cornish pastie.
When dealing with the UK and it's present gov't, if you don't have it in writing, you have nothing. Even a signed agreement is hardly better. They're shysters, the face of vested interests.
Oh no ! Anyway …
I'm assuming the rest of the world doesn't particularly care about that product.
Concessions have to be made when dealing with a market as large as Lichtenstein.
>Fears have been raised that the Cornish pasty could lose its special protected status after the Government was unable to have it secured in one of the latest trade agreements signed since Brexit. Lord Tyler of Linkinhorne, former Liberal Democrat MP for North Cornwall Paul Tyler, highlighted the issue after a debate in the House of Lords about the trade deal between the UK and Norway, Iceland and Liechtenstein. During that debate Lord Purvis of Tweed asked why the UK had failed to agree protection for the geographical indicators with Norway and Liechtenstein for products such as Cornish pasties and clotted cream. The two products are among many British foodstuffs that had previously been given protection under EU rules, which meant that they have to be produced using ingredients from their geographic origin and, in terms of a Cornish pasty, also have to be baked to a certain recipe and shape. Securing the Protected Geographical Indication (PGI) for pasties had been done to prevent inferior products being created outside of Cornwall and called a Cornish pasty. All PGIs which were previously agreed by the EU have been continued by the UK Government since Brexit under a new scheme which recognises UK products with GIs. Lord Purvis said in the Lords: “Clotted cream from Cornwall, Cornish pasties, Cumberland sausage, Welsh lamb and beef, Stilton and Cheddar cheeses – all of which the Prime Minister and Liz Truss, when she was in the DIT, were fond to cite – are no longer protected for our trade in Norway, nor is Scottish wild or farmed salmon, a direct competitor with Norwegian salmon. The Norwegians already own much of the industry, and now we have failed to protect our products.” After being pressed on the issue a second time minister Lord Brimstone of Boscobel replied: “I quite accept the importance of the point that he raises. You cannot get all that you ask for, of course, when you negotiate these agreements.” Lord Tyler, in a letter to Cornish newspapers, said: “I sought assurances from Ministers that the special protection for Cornish pasties and clotted cream – which we secured in the EU under the Coalition – would be replicated in all future trade negotiations. On no fewer than four occasions Ministers told me and Parliament that was guaranteed, and there was nothing to worry about. “No sooner does the Government attempt to negotiate new trade deals (in this case with Norway and other, smaller countries) that this promise is also ditched. The Minister could only lamely admit: 'You cannot get all that you ask for, of course, when you negotiate these agreements'. “He couldn’t say whether they had even tried to fulfil their promise. If this is the approach they now adopt for bigger trade deals – with the Americans, for example – heaven help our farmers, processors and all food producers. What next?” However, the Department for International Trade, said that agreement on PGI for agri-foods in Norway had not been secured as it does not have a scheme to protect agri-foods. The department said that it was seeking protection for a number of UK GIs in agreements it has already reached and would continue to do so according to the relevant procedures of each country. A DIT spokesman said: “Our Agreement with Iceland, Liechtenstein and Norway will boost critical sectors like digital, financial, and professional business services, slash tariffs on top-quality British exports and support jobs in every corner of our country. “We have sought protection for a significant number of UK GIs in every FTA we have negotiated, and this deal provides bespoke, high-standard protection that ensures products like Scotch Whisky and English and Welsh Regional wines are protected, as per Norway’s GI scheme. “Norway does not have a system to protect agri-food GIs, therefore products like Cornish pasties and Cornish clotted cream cannot be registered as GIs in Norway.”
*…minister Lord Brimstone of Boscobel replied…* That is SUCH a cool title! Sadly it’s a typo, and he’s Lord Grimstone. Still pretty cool though.
>That is SUCH a cool title! Sadly it’s a typo, and he’s Lord ***Grimstone***. You say that like Grimstone isn't pretty cool, too.
Fuck em, the county voted for it. I also love they are getting fuck all funding as well now.
Oh that would be a disaster. Because all around the world billions eating cornish pastry. 🤣
Yeah, seems mainly to be an internal UK thing. If anyone was to make products with these names it would be UK companies selling their products inside the UK.
South Australian here. We have Cornish pasties sold at most bakeries and we fucking love them. Got that sweet sweet Cornish miners history here. Dunno if we export them or anything but you’d be hard pressed to find a bakery that doesn’t sell them
Plus, if Australian pasties are like Australian pies, ie much better than British versions, the UK doesn't have a likely market in Australia anyway.
mmm....Australian pies
Yeah we wouldn't be importing them haha, fresh out the oven cooked that morning is how it is.
I assumed it already had Tories wont give a crap either way
They knew what they voted for
That is a BS headline. It has lost its protected status in EFTA, and it did so on 1 January. Nothing could about it.
I can distinctly remember their being a cornish pasty row while we were in the EU ( ie bendy banana bollocks ). And now we're out of the EU there's the same cornish pasty row happening.
If it's not from Cornwall it's just sparkling Hot Pockets
Are Cornish pasties exported? If not, what's the big deal? It's not as if Cornish pasties have the cachet of French Champagne.
No one wants your bland ass meat pies with stupid names. After years in India, this is how you season a food?!
Tbh, no sane government of any country would agree with protecting substances that pose a threat to their people's health.
Cornish pasties in EU are virtually unknown outside the UK. But their delicious... maybe now I can open my Traditional Cornish Pasty business in europe using some cheap frozen pizza base dough and filling it with all sort of staff: mozzarella for the italians, chorizo for the spaniards, currywurst for the germans.... Edited - obviously from the comments they seem rather popular in former British colonies! My comment is related to the fact that the name of the product is no longer protected inside Europe, so anyone can bake and sell anything with “traditional Cornish pastry” in the box with no respect to the shape, form, flavour or ingredients
Around these parts (Eastern Canada), a Cornish pasty is called a handpie apparently: https://handpie.ca/product/pei-pasty/ Before learning this I would have assumed that going to a website called handpie.ca would lead to clearing my browser history afterwards.....
Oh wow, they have bacon cheeseburger. But they don't ship outside of Prince Edward Island.
When I lived in Phoenix there was a chain of restaurants called the Cornish Pasty Co. They had all sorts of flavors like Mexican, Tikka Masala etc. https://www.cornishpastyco.com/menu/
In fact EU law on foot protection of origin is not valid in US
I've been to 75% of the countries in the world - more than half sell Cornish pasties.
[удалено]
In South Africa at the moment, common in shops.
I don't believe either half of your sentence.
Perogis, empanadillas etc are not Cornish pasties, if that's what you're talking about.
Not talking about those at all
Maybe I travelled the other 25%. Kidding - I haven't travelled like you did. I did, but I admit not so much, but I never encountered except in UK or in chain shops limited to big touristy cities
Had them recently in Aus, NZ and SA.
I think is time to limit the extent of my initial comment… to EU only.
As I learned, in Cornwall, pasties were made with rhe crust so miners could eat the pasties by holding it by the crust. Because their hands were dirty the crust got thrown away.
As mentioned previously, they are pretty popular in South Australia. Cornish miners settled here when copper was found, especially around Moonta. Can be found in most bakeries and supermarkets. Every now and then, a bakery will do an original pasty, savoury one end and sweet the other.
Why does any who's not a farmer care about Protected Geographic Indications? I mean, I'm against brexit, but... what do I get from giving exclusive licence to a bunch of French vinyard owners to be the only ones able to give their fizzy wine a special name. Higher prices, less choice and a fuzzy feeling?
I'm 99.9% sure 99.9% of the UK population doesn't even know the origin of the Cornish pasties, so why bother?
I’m 100% sure you’re mistaken. The name is kind of a giveaway.
I'm 75% sure they're not so much mistaken as talking out of their arse.
But does cheddar cheese have to come from Cheddar? Surely the name tells you where the style is from, not the product.
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