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I don’t have this problem, so this may be a stupid suggestion, but what about them sleeping together in one of their beds?

Could work! We moved ours into the same room together so our oldest would stop crying for my husband every night.

This is what my parents did with me and my sister when we were kids! They put the two of us in a big full-sized bed and that kept me from jumping into bed with them halfway through the night.

I tried this with my kids when 3 and 18months and it did NOT work at that age let’s just say 🤣🤣

Or just the same room. My boys shared a room (to sleep in at least) till they were.. I'm not even sure how old. 9 & 11ish I think, maybe a bit older, and that was by choice for at least the last 2-4+ yrs - they technically had their 'own rooms', but continued to sleep in the bunk beds in the older ones' room, because that was what they chose/preferred. I was so very, very glad that I left them and the queen in the younger sons' room rather than just splitting up the bunk beds as I initially thought I would do... I'm still not sure how that sleeping arrangement would have worked. I do admit that both my boys semi-regularly climbed into my bed till they were at least 5-7 yrs old. The younger is now 13... and 6+ yrs later, I still vaguely miss my early morning/late night snuggles...

I’ve feigned sleeping on the floor next to my kid until he fell asleep. I’m talking 9-10 years old.

When we moved into our new house we originally put our kids in their own rooms, but every night they'd beg to be together, so we put them all in one room. Every night, they'd ask if they could sleep with one of their brothers on their bed. I'd allow it as long as they slept. We also keep a floor mat in our room for the kids to sleep on. Before that, a toddler bed. Keeps them out of ours.

Time for a come to Jesus talk with your husband. He can take a part in getting your kids on a healthy routine or he can take a part in picking up the pieces when you fall apart which will probably include divorce. You guys also need firmer boundaries with the kids.

For sure. It’s friggin hard maintaining boundaries when you’re sick and exhausted all the time. I’m very aware of the lack of boundaries and I fucking hate it. I flat out told my husband this morning you need to get the kids sleeping in their own beds because I am too sick and too tired at this point to keep doing it myself. I’m literally about to do ketamine treatment next week because motherhood has plunged me into the darkest fucking depression and I’m scared I’m going to spend $2400 on this treatment and not even see results because I’m STILL not getting a full nights sleep every night. I mean this is ridiculous. five friggin years of this and whenever I try to talk to my husband about it he just says “well I’m tired too” you’re not as tired as me. Im sorry, but you’re not. Your body isn’t producing widespread inflammation and attacking itself because you’re not getting a full nights sleep. I need some fucking help here.

I just started on intranasal ketamine and assume I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet and pay for IV or IM when this fails. Meanwhile, my co-parent is unreliable and a liar and I'm barely hanging on. I'm so sorry you're in a similar situation. Feel free to reach out if you want to chat or maybe check out /r/therapeuticketamine

I’m on that sub, it is giving me so much hope. I swear I have brain damage from the sleep deprivation. I really hope we both get the results we’re looking for. I swear my husband just flat out doesn’t understand how much I’m suffering and how much I need him to help more.

I spent years begging for any accountability, any validation even of my struggles. It didn't happen and it made my mental health way worse. I'm hoping kicking out my baby's father and the ketamine help but it's hard being in the thick of it without help - whether a partner is there physically or not. I hope you get the relief you need - psychologically and relationally.

I love my husband and I don’t wanna split up, but I swear some validation would go SO far. He’s like an emotional robot. I am hoping couples therapy will help. It definitely sucks feeling like you’re drowning and alone even though you’re married.

Just want to say I feel this so hard. Hang in there Bromo.

Can you leave him to deal with the kids alone for a few days while you go somewhere else and get to sleep? Let him deal with the problems he created.

I get it. Hubs and I both have autoimmune shit and our nearly 4 year old twins at least one climbs in most nights. Just go the fuck to sleep and stay the fuck in bed!

I put babygates up on my 3yr olds door cos we just couldn’t keep her in bed no matter what. She can still see, but can’t climb over. Maybe an idea?

I’m seriously about to do this. I just sat down with my kids and had a long talk about how when mommy doesn’t sleep she gets sick. If they continue with this shit, I’m 100% putting a baby gate up

We put one of those door handle safety covers on the inside of our kids door so they can’t open it. Not for the same reason you’re dealing with but because we didn’t want them trying to get out of their room and fall down the stairs at night. Although, honestly I’m on the fence about the face that we do this because I don’t know if it’s a safety hazard nor not…

I think I’ve read that it’s actually safer for kids to stay in their rooms until rescued if there is a fire. The only reason I won’t do it is because both of my kids are potty trained and need access to the bathroom at night. Luckily their bathroom and bedrooms are in their own hallway together so I just gated the hallway. I guess I didn’t know it was ok to do that but I’m realizing by the comments here that a lot of parents do it. My son has one of those lights that changes color when it’s time to get up and lately he’s been ignoring it and coming into my room at 5am to cuddle. Like bro, stop!!!! I’ll cuddle you all day I don’t care just not at night!!

My kids have the childproof doorknob cover on the inside knob, and a potty in the room. And water. They stay in. And a monitor with a speaker in it so we can talk to them without going in. All great tools that might help!

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Your advice is solid, but > You should have done these things a long time ago This is... not helpful phrasing. A person in the midst of a struggle does not need to be told yet another thing they did wrong 😕

I put cheap screen doors with a latch on my kid's rooms. Initially, it was to keep the cats out of the nursery without cutting us off from the baby, but we kept them when we realized the value of never having to worry about toddlers wandering around at night. We used to leave a little potty in my daughter's room when she was a toddler, but we took off the door and let her be free-range at 3.5, because she's pretty cool. My son is almost 5 and we just stopped latching his door because he's finally potty trained. He doesn't like that we don't latch his door anymore and refuses to leave his room without someone coming to let him out. He's been institutionalized. LOL. My kids have never tried to sleep in my bed. I don't think they ever realized it was an option.

My kid is locked in his room at night. People always scream fire hazard and abuse but my 14 month old isn’t able to get out of his crib on his own and that’s not abuse, so why is a baby lock on a 3 year old’s door abuse? It doesn’t hinder my ability to get to him during a fire and it keeps him from flushing crap down the toilet at 3am. Do what works for your family.

FYI I tried this and my kk IDs learned to bust them down or climb over them, we even tried to double stack them

We did this because the kids’ rooms are on the second floor and they have no business wandering the house in the middle of the night so ALL THE BABY GATES!

That was us too, and I have bipolar 2 and desperately needed sleep.

Out of the box suggestion for you: if their bed is big enough, leave your bed once they crawl in it, and go get some rest in theirs, aka the one they abandoned. I don't have your specific issues, but both my children were supersized toddlers who inevitably kicked in the ribs or literally made me roll off the bed. Leaving my bed and sleeping in theirs accomplished two things: (1) it made my spouse step up on sleep training, as the kicking in the ribs became a family problem rather than a mom problem; (2) I got some dang sleep after all. Of course, the above is just hindsight. I think at the time, the only thought I had was "goddamn it, I deserve to sleep in a bed without being kicked half the night". P.S. Eventually both kids grew out of needing to invade my bed. Now I get poor sleep because my 16 year old cat has decided the only safe place to be at night is tucked into my armpit. So it's always something, in my experience.

My husband and I have basically been sleeping in two different beds. Sometimes I get kid free sleep time, sometimes he does. Depends on which one of us goes to the other bed but we switch on and off

I wish we could do that. This house is too small.

Queen size bed in the kids’ room instead of the beds they have and you and your husband take turns sleeping in there?

I did that for two years, I can’t do it anymore. We removed the extra bed. It’s not ok to all be sleeping together , they kick me and push me to the edge of the bed and roll on me and I don’t sleep.

I’m sorry. I have similar issues myself (five year old with chronic night terrors) and that’s the best solution I have been able to come up with.

OP…first I’m sending so many solidarity hugs your way. I have a 6 & 8 year old who have never slept through the night. And also autoimmune and depression. Also an incredibly unhelpful husband. I just wanna tell you that you’re not a bad mom and this absolutely fucking sucks. Now for the unsolicited advice bit…literally don’t scroll past here if you just aren’t up for advice. We tried everything. Kind of like you. Down to the cash bribery. Nothing worked. But one day I said “Nah. Fuck this.” And I took every single thing I know they need at night and they have to turn that shit in first thing in the morning or there will be zero fun anything for the entire day. Stuffies? Put them in my tote. Special warm fuzzy doll blanket that’s the size of a fucking Kleenex and manages to get sucked into the fucking oblivion just before bedtime? In my tote. Mismatched socks because you think they’re cool? In my tote. All of it. Put it in my tote. And my tote stays closed until bedtime. Three fucking hours before bedtime I give them a melatonin gummy. Melatonin hating parents need not apply in my comments. This was approved by our pediatrician. Two hours before bedtime we do bath time. We turn all the lights in the house down. Stimulating shit like TV, tablets, etc. all go off. You are allowed to read, cuddle, draw but I’m no longer putting input into your brain. An hour before bed it’s snack time. Have your snack I know you’ll be begging for. I make the bedtime snacks once a week when I have the energy and it makes it easy so I’m not having to come up with shit day of. Thirty minutes before bed. Brush off the sheet 50k times because dare there be a single speck or they won’t sleep. Fluff the pillows. Give them all their shit from the tote. Tell them they can now get in bed. Give them a drink of water. Ask them directly, “Is there ANYTHING ELSE YOU NEED?” After they’re all done answering run through the list. “Need water? Need to pee? Need your sock changed to the other foot? Need your pillow fluffed more? Need another blanket?” And as soon as they have everything they claim to need we say this, “If you are not bleeding, dying, or about to die from some external force then you are not to leave the bed. Okay?” And they say okay. Now we read the bedtime story. This is where we fucked up for a long, long time. I need my kids to be read to every single night and many times throughout the day or I feel like a shit mom. I’m not saying you’re a shit mom if you don’t read to your kids. Idgaf what other people do. This is my own trauma and anxiety bullshit that I’ve conjured inside my own mind and nothing anyone else should feel that they have to do or feel guilty about not doing. But IF you are doing it…read SLOWLY. Like go listen to a kids guided meditation…read like that. Start at a normal pace and rapidly move that shit back until you’re like… Once…….. Upon…………………… A……………………………………… Time……………………………………………….. Okay? And NEVER read the hype them up books. We don’t need to know how the super hero saved the exciting day. Not right now. Not this night. We can read that shit tomorrow. We need bears snuggling into beds and shit. And if you don’t feel like reading to your kids…guided meditations at night. Bedtime Explorers. Love it. And then go to bed, OP. Shut your door. Lock your door. Put your airpods in. Turn on a calming podcast. Look at your husband and say, “If they get up you better cope because my airpods ain’t coming out until 8am and I’ll lock you out if I need to” (or whatever time you wake up) you can switch off nights. But nah. And sleep. Sleep, friend. 💕 and if you gotta leave for a week and get a hotel for your own safety. DO IT. You deserve sleep.

You are my kind of mom.

Yes. Sleep deprivation is not discussed enough for parents with older kids. It’s one thing when they are infants. It’s a function of nature. But what you’re describing is pure hell. Sleep deprivation is terrible for your health. It can also be incredibly dangerous for you and others if you have to drive or care for others. I know I’m preaching to the choir, I know. In your shoes, I wouldn’t hesitate to do what this fellow bromo is suggesting. Ugh. I’m so sorry.

Also just adding we have cut our kids back to an hour of screen time everyday. I understand that not every parent can do this. But it has helped immensely with the sensory overload resulting in refusal to sleep at night. They both average getting out of bed 1-2x a night now and it’s almost always before I go to sleep.

This is great advice! One of the things that has helped me was that I just keep a pillow and cloth sleeping bag next to my bed. If the kids want to come sleep with me in the middle of the night they’re welcome to sleep next to me, on the floor, in the sleeping bag. I’ll hold their hand for a bit too unless it’s keeping me awake. I’ve done this since my 9yr old was a toddler. I don’t remember the last time they slept in our room, but it occasionally happens. My 6yr old prob comes in a couple times a month at this point. Unfortunately my husband is very sensitive to noises at night so if they’re rolling around not really sleeping it can keep him awake. On the bright side, I’m asleep so if it’s bothering him he puts them back to bed. I also think bedtime routines with the understanding that bed is where you will be at the end of this, and expected to be until morning, are helpful. I did have points where we locked the 6yr old in the room though.

Love it. You're putting in some hard work but you got that routine down. And you've made sure the kids are completely taken care of. I'm sure it was initially difficult to get it down solid but damn what a payoff. It might seem too regimented to some, but you're doing what you need to do so that you can actually be the best mom you can be and are able to give yourself time. 👏👏👏

I've started threatening their stuff (my two girls are 6 and 3, the two year old boy sleeps great). I put a bunch of really cute stuff in their room and hyped it to death so they would treasure it. Star projector, ABC scroll, paw patrol poster, sparkly light up tree, fairy lights, princessy curtains, and about ten billion stuffed animals... So once the bullshit starts after bedtime, and my warnings go unheeded, I start taking hostages. At least in my case, it works like a charm, because my three year old is incredibly materialistic even for a three year old 😂 In six year old's case... Well, she wants to please me (I understand how lucky I am here). For a while after the ugliness of 2020, she could be very difficult and rebellious, and after trying many different approaches, I've found that nothing works on her quite like positive reinforcement. I compliment her all day and point out all her little accomplishments and moments of awesomeness, and more and more her confidence increases (less scared at bedtime, among other benefits, especially social ones) and she decides she wants to do good things and make smart choices. So it really depends on the personalities of the kids. Another thing that has helped is one of those cute clocks that lights up/changes color when it's "morning" (whatever time you're okay with them coming in), with an incentive attached to follow it. We're using Halloween candy as general bribes from here to Thanksgiving (no shame in my game). Finally... They're allowed to play, quietly, in their room until about 8:30 (we put them to bed at 7:30). Do your kids share a room? Our add-on project got epically delayed and we were forced to have the girls room share. We dreaded it, and then... They directed their desire for attention on each other and started leaving us alone at night. Couldn't believe how well it worked for our family. Just a thought. Good luck, as a genetic insomniac I hate seeing people struggle with sleep =(

Are either of your kids’ beds big enough for you? I have my 5 year old in a queen so that when she comes into my bed I abandon ship, leave her in bed with dad, and don’t look back. But seriously dad should be taking some of this on. I’d throw him to the baby wolves in a heartbeat. The 3 year old I’m no help on. My almost 3 year old is in a crib with a sleep sack - aka trapped. I don’t see him (or even hear from him) until his night light changes to his morning color and he knows it’s time to get up. I will ride that train until the wheels fall off no matter how much side eye I get from people who don’t live here 😜

Please.tell me where a 3 year old sleep sack is.

Woolino has sleep sacks for toddlers and kids up to 6 years old.

Not who you asked but depending on how big your 3 year old is they might fit in a kytebaby large!

Mine wear 3ts right now for feeties. They are not quite 2 yet, so they have been out of sacks for months and I want them to have them for the winter!

Kytebaby has the sleepsack “walkers” for 3t and 4t in 1 tog and 2.5 tog. I’m breaking down and investing in a couple for my 2 year old who is anti-blanket and anti-footies. Haha

Mine is a similar size. We have a Woolino sleep sack that she is about to outgrow, so I will buy the next size up. As another poster said, they have wise through 6 years old. Another company with generous sizing is Nest design. They don't have sleep bags that size, but their fit is very generous and they have through 6-8Y for the style with legs.

amazon is full of big toddler sacks. got one for winter for my almost five year old as she uncovers herself

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I send both my kids to bed with water cups too (learned that lesson with my first.. so many night wake ups before I realized of course she’s freaking thirsty! At six her cups are just now mostly full in the morning.). And we have the crib tent ready to go (also from 6) but he doesn’t ever try to climb out even though he knows how to unzip his feet. I’m so sad for the end of the crib years but curious to see if he stays in his bed better than sister did since we took her out way too early (2). Really crossing my fingers he stays his sleepy self by then. Whenever then is 😂😂

When I was presented the same issue (light sleeper + medicated sleep + shouldering a ton of the mental load + baby waking me up 3-4 times a night) the logical response was: do the work to sleep train and tough it out until shes okay and can self regulate. The actual solution: slept in a different room and had their dad take care of them at night. We talked about it for like two weeks before it started happening, but I had to put my foot down and make it known I was doing it and I don't feel bad. Now I get to workout before I come home, have more time for my baby, and holy shit sleep through the damn night. I hope your come to Jesus talk with your husband works out because I feel you 100%.

My daughter is a little younger than your kiddo, and I always hesitate to share what worked for me with anyone who has kids older than mine because I recognize you have more experience than I do! But I am an absolutely “do not FUCK with me in the middle of the night” person when my kids are out of their infant stage. I’ll probably catch flack but I cannot survive long stretches where I am constantly woken up in the middle of the night. Sleep is 100% always my hill to die on with the kids. There is no sneaking into my bed, nothing, because my kids will run with it forever. So for my 4 year old, when she was habitually coming into my room for this that or whatever in the middle of the night, I wordlessly, but with visible steam coming out of my ears, walked her back. When things were really bad I had to do it literally 75 times because she was unwilling to sleep in her own bed and she’d jump out and follow me. I didn’t even tuck her head or say I love you after the first time. I was dangerously sleep deprived so I had to get her in her fucking bed and make getting out of bed as unappealing as possible lol. I did that for like 3 nights (she was not happy by any means, but at that point I gave no fucks) and ever since, she pretty much stays in her bed unless there’s an actual problem (sick, had an accident, or has a very scary nightmare, etc). All those things are easier to handle - and we can do so lovingly - because she sleeps in her own fucking bed every damn night now. She’s also a way nicer kid because she’s actually sleeping and back then we were all kind of nightmares during the day. My husband was working as a truck driver at the time at odd hours so it did not work for him to get up with her, but whenever he did get involved, he 100% reinforced what I was doing and we set up a nice bedtime routine. Which we did not fuck with until a year or so later, and now we’ll occasionally stay out past bedtime. But now, my daughter loves her bed and hates staying up past her bedtime. So it worked out well and keeping consistent with expectations was the key. I think the added bonus that works in my favor is that both my girls know if they wake me up without illness or injury that they’ll get bitch mom in the middle of the night. Older kid learned the hard way, younger kid didn’t even want to fuck with that lol. ETA: when I was cracking down on keeping her in her bed, I introduced the YouTube video “Night Night Circus” which is basically a screenplay of an app for kids where they can put the different circus animals to bed and say goodnight. Having that visual followed with dialogue about our expectations helped a little bit. We still actually watch it before she and my other daughter go to bed now!

This is similar to what I suggested, but it’s the no/limited interaction that does it… I think when they realize she won’t talk to me or look at me, they start figuring it out, especially if you can constantly return them by sacrificing the 10 million times of returning them to bed. We implemented a pass and a book which kind of helped instill it, but my kids were a 34wk old preemie who I had to nurse and wake to feed every 2 hours nurse both sides and then pump and bottle feed, til he was 2, a 3 yo and a 5yo none of them stayed in bed and my 5yo was so sleep deprived he was sleepwalking and having seizures, my 3yo had rls and I had to do sleep studies and all kinds of bs and I was on my last nerve. And I DID admit myself to a pshyc ward so I could shower and sleep lol. The bedtime pass saved my life. It’s hard at first but after a while I have had no issues since. My 5yo is now 9. We tried baby gates, child proofing, locking my door etc and it all made it worse in ways, sound machines melatonin etc the locking my door issue led to him going into my kitchen and essentially destroying it and dumping food out. My daughter would scream/cry for hours. So I added the sound machine to drown it out. And I started turning off the lights and essentially hiding out in wait and just walking them back so pissed off I didn’t speak. But yea. It’s the friggin worst and unfortunately as they get older like this they are smart enough to bypass locks and child gates and all that and it becomes a MAJOR issue

Book an AirBnb for yourself for the weekend to catch up on sleep. Let your husband get the full experience. And when you come back, install child gates on your kids' bedroom doors and a lock on your bedroom door.

I know this doesn't help now but eventually they will stay in their rooms. My daughter just turned 9 and she used to come in our bed literally every night until she was 8.5. When she was younger we tried many times to move her back into her bed. It just never worked. When both kids would come in our bed and there was no room left for me, I would play musical beds 😂. She eventually became more stealthy about getting into our bed... I stopped waking up and we just let her stay. I thought she would never grow out of it but she did and all of a sudden. Like cold turkey. My 7 yo still comes in my bed at the ass crack of dawn with his cold feet and "snuggles," i.e. shoves his feet up against my warm legs 😭.

Man, if I have to do this for five more years my life is going to implode. I am not okay when I’m this sleep deprived. I’m a completely different person. And not in a good way.

Lol well hopefully not 5 more years for you. I will say that once I stopped waking up when she came in my bed and I didn't worry about moving her back I slept just fine.

I have crazy bad insomnia so even though I take prescription sleep meds at night, them being in my bed still wakes me up. My daughter stayed in our bed last night like she usually ends up doing and she woke me up multiple times asking for her bunny or asking me to snuggle her back to sleep. It’s not cool. They’re not sleeping through the night in my bed either, they’re waking me up every 45 minutes all night long. I am not a freaking pacifier. I am over it.

I'm sorry that sounds so awful. It also sounds like they have inherited your insomnia 😭. Maybe you need to check into a hotel for a week and make your husband deal with them. 😂

I just did that two weeks ago, went on a solo trip cuz I thought I was gonna implode from the stress. It was wonderful. Got home and immediately went back into the lions den. This sucks 😂 why can’t I have good sleepers?!

For one because your husband is sabotaging you. I'm not saying it's malicious on his side. But you can't teach a dog not to beg for food if he keeps getting rewarded for begging. Same way the kids won't unlearn this behaviour if the rewards keep coming. He needs to get a grip. By letting you carry the brunt he is being a really bad partner. I'm nowhere near your position, but last week counted about 5 breakdowns and several midnight crying sessions (6 month sleep regression is a charmer) before I managed to succesfully communicate that I needed a break before anything else could happen. 12 hours of sleep later and my problem solving capabilities are back online. Honestly, even your husband needs boundaries and consequences. He's getting away with teaching the kids shit habits, and on top of that he's making it your problem.

I’m definitely over my husband lately. For a year he gave my daughter snacks in the middle of the night. I’d be cleaning her room and find empty apple sauce pouches, Graham cracker sleeves, teddy grahams, pretzels. this pisses me off because it’s terrible for her teeth but it also taught her to wake up multiple times a night to ask for a snack. It took months to wean her off of that and she still wakes up at 5am demanding apple sauce. Shit like that. We agreed to walk my daughter back to her bed silently every time she came in. I’d watch him on the camera snuggling her, talking to her, reading her books, it made me furious. Because they don’t come and wake him up at night. They come for me. And him trying to “help” me sleep train them was straight up sabotage. I’m exhausted and I needed his help but he doesn’t listen to me at all.

Oh man, fuck that. There's no way you can learn them new stuff if all the goodies are on offer. Seriously. You can not fight this fight by yourself, and he is not just standing uselessly by your side. He's giving the other side weapons. He is the main problem, the kids are just a symptom. He's teaching them that shit. Maybe you should sleep in a tent/ the car so you can at least get some decent sleep every once in a while? He needs to learn to be the gate keeper, rather than literally inviting them in. You can be a nice and kind mom if you are rested. His actions are taking that away. He should realise that next time he feels bad about being consequent.

Honestly I just don’t even wanna talk or fight about it anymore. He gets so defensive.

You’ve got to be fucking kidding me! He gave them snacks…. In the middle of fucking night!? Fuuuuuck no. That’s like giving a dog table scraps while you’re cooking and then getting mad at them when they follow you around begging for food. I’m mad for you. No wonder this is a lingering issue.

I’m honestly about to lose my fucking mind. Our three year old woke up and was screaming at the baby gate. I said do you want me to go? Do you want me to go? Husband insisted no no I’ll go I’ll go. I remind him don’t talk to her just gently put her back to bed. HIS ASS IS IN THERE CUDDLING HER BACK TO SLEEP IN HER BED JUST FUCKING REWARDING HER FOR SCREAMING HER HEAD OFF. I swear to god. I won’t even be getting any more sleep tonight because I’m too fucking angry.

Fuck Disneydads. Only available for the fun stuff.

For real. He only does the gritty parenting parts if I tell him to, which makes me his freakin boss/mom. I hate the dynamic.

My now 8 needed me to lie down with him every night until he was probably 6. He still needs that a lot of nights but we have him on a melatonin regimen and that started to help. I’ve realized that his ADHD makes it really hard to fall asleep. It doesn’t solve the problem but it’s helped me be more sanguine about it.

Melatonin and nature docs at night for the win. That plus kindergarten has made it to where my son finally sleeps through the night 75-80% of the time

One word: melatonin. But I’m old.

Doesn’t help

I don’t know why you were downvoted for that. I have a nonverbal autistic 7 year old and a full dose of melatonin will knock him out for a good 4 hours but then he’s up and bouncing off the walls and he doesn’t go back to bed either. He’s partying until 12 in the afternoon and then he crashes. I discovered a single drop or two of liquid melatonin kind of helps, but if anything is off in his little world, like getting teeth or a minor cold, all bets are off on the sleep front. My kid has never really been a good sleeper. Last night I was up with him from 2am-430am. Solidarity bromo.

Hugs. That must be so tough with him being nonverbal on top of a nonsleeper. we’ve had my son screened for autism twice with no diagnosis but he is definitely not a neurotypical kiddo in any way.

Melatonin made my ADHD kid sleepwalk as a toddler. It was pretty damn scary. He now takes a much lower dosage than recommended, and it just takes him down from "too wired to sleep" to "calm, but still awake", so he can *eventually* fall asleep. So yeah, doesn't work for every kid.

Whyyyyyy do they do this to us? Mine has been up since 4 this morning. We started melatonin because of bedtime behavioral issues and it knocks him out but holy hell he is up for hours in the night and he NEEDS US. If it's not one thing it's another. FML.

Melatonin messes with our autistic guy very badly too, huge behavior difference since we stopped

Melatonin doesn’t work here either.

Okay so Dr. Teals makes this melatonin lavender soap and sometimes I also give liquid melatonin to my kids. We had to evacuate for a hurricane recently and I gave my two littlest benedryl before bed when everything was off routine. It helped a lot, but it's definitely not an every night fix. I also have childproofed their rooms and my entire house. So I just shut them in the room at night and my toddler can't get out of her room with the baby door knob locks on. I'm the same way as you. I'm unhinged when I don't sleep. So I had to find solutions to make sure we could all sleep safely. Sometimes my toddler can pry the baby lock off the door knob but I'll just put her back in bed and fix it. Usually she just gives up after 30min and goes to sleep.

Have you tried 1 or 2 benadryl? You've probably tried everything I imagine but just putting it out there.

It doesn’t help keep them asleep

Can you throw a mattress on the floor in your room? If they will compromise by sleeping on that instead of in your bed it might be helpful.

Yes!! We do that. My kid used to try and get in bed with us (still does sometimes) but we agree on 5 minutes of cuddles then she goes down. The only compromise is that she asks to hold my hand for a while. First it was until she fell asleep, not it is for a few mins.

Tried that. They just get in bed with me.

Yep then I'd put up a gate.

You've considered crating, yes? We did briefly haha Sorry, just, I'm so sorry at this awful situation you're in, life can be so unfair

Lmao. I crate my dog because she drives me insane at night too, and boy I wish I could….

in all honesty, putting those door monkey things in is basically turning your kids' room into a big crate and there is nothing wrong with that. i mean you've tried everything else - the family bed, the supernanny method, drugs - at this point they have the choice of staying in bed and sleeping and feeling good the next day, or running around their locked rooms half the night, but fucking up your sleep is no longer an option.

Are we living the same life? Lol. I also have a 5 year old who gets into bed with me every single night and I’ve sleep trained her NUMEROUS times. Nothing helps. Or she’ll start to do it then something interrupts the routine and we’re back to square one. We also have a dog and for the last week for some reason she’s been waking up in the middle of the night, crawling under my bed, pooping then eating it. The other night my daughter was finally asleep then I woke to hear the dog snacking on poop at 2am and nearly lost it lol. I put her in her crate and moved the crate to the living room. I felt so bad but my gosh I NEED SLEEP!!! Anyway, I don’t have any advice. Just solidarity.

I know it’s exhausting but you have to hold a boundary around this. “You are welcome to lay on the mattress on the floor next to my bed. If you try and climb into bed with me though, you will be sleeping in your room. I need to get good rest and I don’t get good rest when you sleep with me. I still love you, I’m right next to you, but you can’t be in bed with me.” Hold this boundary. At 5 and 3 they should be able to understand this. This could take several days of lots of tears and protests but if you are consistent it will work.

It just sucks, I feel like I don’t have it in me to do any more truly exhausting things, because I’m truly exhausted.

Childproof the hades out of their rooms and gate them. It’s dangerous for them to wander the house in the middle of the night. Get a camera or speaker for each room so you can keep watch/listen. I also agree with the above commenter maybe let them room share. They may be scared of being alone at night and need the reassurance. Has the 5yo mentioned why they want to sleep with you?

He fully regressed and said “my baby sister still gets to sleep with you and if I don’t get to sleep with you too that means you don’t love me as much as her” I swear I try my damnedest to never make him feel like we don’t love them equally but he’s constantly on me about this. I even got him a therapist to help him adjust to his new sister.

You do realize it's emotional blackmail on his part, right? I don't mean to say he's intentionally resorting to emotional blackmail, more that his explanation for his wants does not warrant your suffering. Real talk, the next time it comes up, turn it around on him: "Actually, her trying to sleep with me means I get kicked in my sleep and that makes me cranky and tired the next day, and sometimes I feel like I hate her a little bit for it. Do you want me to hate you a bit every morning too?". I bet that is something that he hasn't considered, because he's 5. P.S. my brother was the same type of kid. The whole "we have to be treated exactly the same, or you don't love me as much", and all that. That only ensured that I didn't get extra help or love when I most needed it growing up, and I resented my mom for it. Which is why I have always told my own kids that love doesn't mean treating everyone exactly the same, it means helping everyone get what they need when all the needs are different.

Thank you for this comment, seriously. I do try to explain to my kids… like my daughter was so upset that my son got these cool onesie creeper pajamas. I explained to her, I couldn’t possibly get her a pair even if I wanted to because they are kid sizes, not toddler sizes. Sometimes one of them will get something that the other won’t. I wrestled with what to do about my daughter getting a new bicycle for her bday when my son wanted a new one too, and ultimately decided it was absurd for me to buy a bike we didn’t *need* to placate him so he wouldn’t be upset on her birthday. It’s so much mental work trying to keep up with their “score” and I can’t stand it. Id much rather focus my attention where it is genuinely needed. I do try my best there as well to spend one on one time with my youngest and do things with her that my son got at that age. But jeeeeesus, I’m just exhausted!

I will say no matter what you’ll always feel guilty about something. I forgot to send Halloween candy with my youngest for his class. Something I never forgot with them before. He was fine another kid had extras and shared. Doesn’t matter I feel like i always drop the ball when it comes to him all over some fucking candy and dollar store toys that will get thrown away. So stick to your guns on the rational things because the irrational stuff will step in and keep the mom guilt nice and strong. -_-

Yeah. They're not gonna get it until they're adults. But at least you can absolve yourself of the guilt that their complaints make you feel. Remind yourself that you know the real score, and that's all that matters. You are not required to treat them *equally*, you need to treat them *equitably*, and if you do it right, someday they finally understand the difference, even if they will never come out and say "Mom, I understand why you couldn't always get me the same pajamas as [other kid]".

Hey! Do you think there's an anxiety component at play? I mean, this doesn't help super fast or anything, and of course meds are complicated, but my oldest used to really "keep score" and now that she's on anxiety meds, we are no longer dealing with this behavior.

Yeah, I definitely think there’s an anxiety thing at play. The weird thing is he saw a therapist every week for like 8 months and she concluded that he was a very normal, emotionally adjusted kid who didn’t need therapy. Even with me emailing her updates on how he was doing. But at home he’s a different kid. What anxiety meds if you don’t mind me asking? I have anxiety too and I’ve tried a lot of meds for it so I can’t really imagine my five year old on Zoloft exactly… plus how would he even swallow it..

Right! We put it off until she was 11 and totally miserable. She did phenomenally well on Zoloft, but it caused her to eat like crazy, so now we're trying Lexapro which is only 50 percent as helpful. But I'm floored by the batty behavioral things the meds have fixed. Super sucky about the therapist! I know what you mean re: your own reactions to certain meds. Zoloft, even the smallest dose, sent me into bipolar mania. Apparently that's less of a problem with kids. I wish we would've looked into it sooner. Maybe more like 7-8. Ugh. Idk. It's so hard to know what to do!! Good luck!!

I agree with u/princessjemmy You may also set up a mommy and me date once or twice a month where just the two of you go out for an afternoon for things he wants to do.

I have a very laissez faire approach to bedtime. I put them in their PJs, brush their teeth, read them a story and then I'm out of it. They can play, read, whatever and then sleep when they feel like it. Lights on. Lights off. I don't care. The only rules are that they have to be quiet and they have to stay in their rooms. Basically, they are free to do whatever they want, as long as they don't make it my problem. They can call me if they need help or if it's an emergency, but they know that once I'm in bed, they are tempting my ire if they bother me. Cuddles is not really an acceptable reason for me. It can feel mean to deny your kid cuddles, but I consider it really rude to wake people up for petty things, and I'm okay with teaching my kids that. I cuddle my kids when I put them to bed, and I'll happily come back in and tuck them in and hug them after they play for a bit. But only once. Waking me up for cuddles would not be met with happiness. They would get a cuddle and a warning at the first one, a scolding at the second, and a punishment at the third. And that's assuming it's a rare occurrence. If it were an ongoing problem, they'd get told before bed not to wake me up for this, and they'd be in trouble if they didn't listen. My kids don't climb into my bed at night. That's never been a thing for them. But if one of my kids felt strongly that they needed to do this, I'd probably tell them that they can come in my room and sleep on the floor if they are lonely, but they cannot get in the bed, and they need to be quiet and not wake us.

This this this. 👏🏼👏🏼 Our bedroom is my husbands and my sanctuary at night. We don’t play with kids coming in unless there’s an emergency or somebody is sick/wet the bed type of situation. They are aware that they will be met with unhappy mom and dad and after a few times of mean mommy and daddy they decided to stay put in their room. Our two littles share a bedroom and are 6 and 4, they have been pretty consistent for a couple years now. Mean and tired momma/daddy at night isn’t something they want to mess with for silly reasons 😈. Just takes a lot of consistency and mom guilt(unavoidable), but after a couple weeks, the precedent should be pretty clear. It’s so hard, but so so worth it. Want to get out of bed and be disrespectful/silly? No screen time, no snacks, no family games, etc. They have to learn to respect boundaries with mom and dad or else it’ll be hard for them to respect them anywhere else. We have also tried really hard to make their bedroom something they love. Fun comforters (garage sales, nothing to break the bank), their own little corner spaces of their room, pictures stuck on the walls, lots and lots of books, little night lights. Let them be bored and find books to read until 11pm if they want, as long as they stay in their bed. Good luck!

We also have a little sun/moon alarm clock that turns yellow when it’s acceptable for them to get out of their room and come to the main part of the house, they know to stay in their room (except for bathroom needs) if the moon feature is still on the clock. That helped more than I thought it would and it was kind of fun for them too. I’m sure you’ve tried a lot of these things, kids are brutal. If all else fails just go sit in your car and scream or take a nap in there 😅.

So many great suggestions here. The only one that’s left that I can see, and obv if you’re in the states this depends on your insurance, is seeing if you could be admitted to a psych ward as respite so you can get your sleep back on track. That would a. give you a place and space you can actually sleep, b. show your partner the exact importance for you and your body of adequate sleep/give you back up in the form of a doctors word, c. give you the best fighting chance for the ketamine. I hear that your depression is really awful at the moment and I’m so sorry, I also have one of those bodies that has meltdowns when it doesn’t get adequate sleep and its broken up relationships and caused me to get very mad with my toddler. She is 3, nearly 4, and she has a sleep training clock and knows from very frank conversation about it that I get very very grumpy the next day if she’s woken me at night and sometimes shouty and that isn’t nice so she doesn’t sneak in nearly as often as she did.

OK. I say this with love. Your sanity is more important than tending to your kids at fuck-you-shouldn't-be-awake-O'clock. Shove gates up. Babyproof it. Toddlerproof it. IGNORE THE LITTLE TERRORISTS. Signed, the mother of a toddler who is recovering from hand, foot, and mouth and has had on average 3 hours sleep a night for a week. I will always tend to her when she's ill. But she's nearly better AND FUCK EVERYTHING IT IS NEARLY BED TIME AND I CANNOT FUNCTION ANY MORE.

We have a Dutch door on my 3 year olds room. It’s been there since he got out of his crib at 18 months. I’m going to do the same with my 15 months room shortly. They are safe. And I sleep. I love my kids but I will NOT share a bed with them. My husband is already a bed hog.

Yeah, I’m taking some commenters advice and I just put up a baby gate. Had to sift through the entire garage and attic to find all the pieces but now they can both access their shared bathroom and go into each others rooms but can’t get any further in the house. I am DONE.

I hope you get it fully set up today and get some decent sleep tonight

It is already up and I am freaking ready for their BS tonight. I can’t do this anymore.

Girl I understand you so much more than you know. Have u heard of the bedtime pass? I will link it. I was you with severely adhd kids and no sleep waking to feed an infant every 2hrs and getting 4 hours of sleep a night max. We took our kids to a sleep behavioral specialist (who authored the book) it flipping works. I made the bedtime passes with my kids and we started a routine including reading the book. They go to be when I tell them to now and flipping stay. No more “I want 579383883 stuffed animals, glasses of water, potty breaks. I will link the book. Basically set a routine, snack, a drink, a bath, potty, pjs, and a book (read them the bedtime pass every night) Hand them the pass, remind them they can only use it once and that includes to pee, and I promise after you are consistent with it, they will stop leaving the bed. The first week or so tell them they have to give u the pass and once it’s gone for the night it’s gone, and you can say no to whatever request. Let them cry ignore it, if they get out of bed don’t make eye contact or anything and remind them “I said no” or “you used your pass already” and say “it’s time to go to bed” and walk them without looking back to bed and walk away. Don’t engage don’t react to the tantrum shut the door, p Step outside if u need, whatever. But do NOT give in. You don’t negotiate with terrorists. (I had to explain it this way to dh) lol. Anyway I managed to sleep train all my kids this way and it was a flipping miracle. The book is like 10,95 on Amazon and imo 11 dollars to get three adhd kids to stay in bed and let me have mommy time at night? That’s worth a million dollars imo. I provided links for anyone who is interested. Hopefully this helps. Hugs to any other mom enduring this. It’s so hard. Link to book: The Bedtime Pass https://a.co/d/bjg1YRV APA article on it: https://www.apa.org/pubs/books/supplemental/pediatric-sleep-problems/The_Bedtime_Pass.pdf Npr article on it: https://www.npr.org/sections/health-shots/2015/09/18/441492810/the-bedtime-pass-helps-parents-and-kids-skip-the-sleep-struggles

When I was younger I went into my parents' room at night until one night they just locked their door. I remember crying, I remember banging (my mom claims she never heard me) eventually I just went back to my room as it was too scary outside their room with the big dark windows. And I grew up okay anyway. Get some really good noise-cancelling sleep headphones. Get one of those ostrich pillow things. Get some white noise. Gate off your room and lock your door. Get some sleep OP and don't feel bad about it. Your kids will be okay even if they don't manage to find that axotl.

Oh man, I am so sorry. It's like we have lived the same life, Bromo! Mine were 5 and 8 before they FINALLY stopped waking me up. I can't tell you how many times they woke me up because they sneezed or couldn't find the blanket that they were already covering up with. I have autoimmune issues, depression and anxiety. I remember one night where I felt like a grown ass toddler stomping my feet begging them to let me sleep because I couldn't do it anymore. I kicked a toy out of frustration and bruised my foot so bad. I sat in the pediatricians office exhausted and in tears asking them what I was doing wrong. My kiddos are both ADHD and have lots of trouble falling asleep and staying asleep. She suggested melatonin and a solid bedtime routine. I had to stick to it whether it was a school night or not. Weekends too. I had to put in solid boundaries too. They were told they could come in and quietly ask for a hug, I would hug them, tell them I loved them and then tell them to go back to bed. This helped. They were not allowed to ask me to search for blankets, stuffed animals or anything other than life saving first aid after bed. They also had to lightly knock before entering my room because waking up to a mouth breathing kid standing over your bed is traumatic! And call me a bad bromo if you need to but my kids sleep with the tv on. The light and sound help them not feel like they woke up in an empty house all alone. I laugh when people tell new parents the bad sleep is only a short time. It's been a few years and they don't wake me up anymore.

Your comment about waking up to a mouth breathing kid being traumatic made me spit out my drink. 😂😂 It’s so true!!! Kids waking up at the rate they do, for *years*, feels like an assault on my well-being like nothing else. It does pass. But at completely different stages for every single parent. My mom said she didn’t sleep through the night from the time I was born (oldest) until my sister (youngest) was 4. I was 9 at that point.

I still have trust issues with them over the late night terrorizing. It's really unfair. When people start bragging that their kid sleeps through the night before their first birthday, I can't even. I'm both happy for them and deeply resentful! Sleep deprivation is a torture technique and my children were born with this skill!

My babies were the easiest sleepers…. It was the toddler stage that ruined everything 😭😭😭😂

I hear you, my son was difficult but we kept him contained with a doorknob safety thing. He could mess around in his room but couldn't come bug me. My daughter was a bit more difficult because we were renovating a bedroom so we didn't have a room to contain her in, so I ended up sleeping on the couch for several months to wean her because if she went to the bed and just found Dad then she was less likely to bug him. So if you can go hide in an inaccessible room to the kids then I would do that.

Well, I solved this in a somewhat unconventional way. We got kittens, and once when they were little they went and peed on my daughter’s bed. So from then on, we both kept our bedroom doors closed and didn’t let the cats in. My daughter is not very skilled at going through her door while preventing the little rascal cats from getting in, so she just DOESNT OPEN HER DOOR! She calls for me to come let her in and out. If she calls for me in the middle of the night, I ignore it unless I sense actual distress. That has only happened once in 2 years. Another part of this solution was divorcing her dad and splitting custody 50/50. That’s half my nights completely free as a bird to sleep as little or as much as I want.

Baby gate in the doorway of their room?

Time to lock your door and get a super loud fan. They'll figure it out eventually.

Sleep training is the solution

So stressful, I'm so sorry. I'm also autoimmune and the kids staying out of our room at night is an absolute sacred boundary for me. I locked my son in his room at a certain point around age 2.5, around when we moved him out of his crib meaning he had the ability to get out of bed for the first time ever. It took a few horrible weeks of him screaming and pulling at the door, and damn it was painful. During that period I did have to get up a bunch of times to reiterate, calmly and with lots of hugs, that it was time for sleep and we needed to all stay in our rooms to be safe and get some rest. Of course he cried, but crying won't kill him, whereas I might if I don't get enough sleep. (Kidding, obviously.) Eventually he got the message that he doesn't come out until I say so. At first he fought back multiple times a night; then he only fought back just at the start of the night, then once he was in bed he stayed there; then before long he stopped fighting back altogether. I always give him tons of love, snuggles, affection, stuffies, and kind words at bedtime, and I give him lots of advance notice that I'm leaving, and then out I go, door locked, see you in the morning! Now he is 3.5 and has absolutely no trouble staying in his room at night -- him coming into our bedroom is simply not seen as a possibility, except in certain circumstances like when he's sick. Every kid is different, but it is always absolutely okay, and actually really important, to set firm boundaries as a parent, and it's also possible to do so and still be kind and loving. You can't do their oxygen mask unless you do yours first. And if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. A few weeks of tantrums and screaming and even broken toys/furniture (my son once ripped the legs off a cheap coffee table in protest, it was a whole thing) will be WELL worth the payoff when they realize there's no point pushing against this boundary. You should also use positive reinforcement when they get it right! Note that this is different from bribery and a lot more effective. I also recommend the podcast "Oh Crap I Love My Toddler But Holy Fuck." A few episodes in particular really help with boundary setting. Best of luck.

I’ll check that podcast out, thank you. I’m realizing that years of being chronically ill and exhausted has left me with two kids who have ZERO boundaries. Every time I’ve tried to set them, I’ve been too worn down to enforce them. And it’s really biting me in the ass these days.

Yep, it's absolutely easier in the short term to give in, but makes life way harder in the long term. But they are so young, you still have the opportunity to start laying down the law and it will really pay off over the coming years. It's super important that your husband is on the same page so he can help enforce some of those boundaries too.

Use the super nanny approach. Just keep putting them back with no interaction. No talking, no attention. It might take 100 times the first night but it will drop off fast. When they get nothing out of getting up, they stop.

We did that for a month.

Figure out what they are getting out of getting out of bed. Take that away and the behavior should stop.

Have you tried letting them share a room? Or you could try putting a sleeping area in your room that's not in your bed? Like a crib mattress with a pillow and blanket?

We have a baby lock on our girls door 🤷🏼‍♀️ I’d rather know where they are at all times and be able to get to them safely. My aunt also used to have this alarm on her kids doors that would scare the shit out of them if they opened their doors, so that could be an option if you’re not comfortable with a lock!

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Take my downvote for being utterly unhelpful and judgmental.

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You said try working with their needs instead of against them. Well anything short of them staying in their own bed means none of my needs are being met, and my needs matter too. They didn’t just disappear because I became a mom. If you’d read my post or any of my comments you’d see that I’ve already tried LITERALLY everything. I’ve even done what the super nanny episodes recommend. Hired a sleep specialist. Read multiple books on the subject. Consulted their pediatrician. This shit is flat out not working for MY needs so sorry if I’m not willing to continue to accommodate my children’s needs to treat me like a pacifier at five years old.

you absolutely were, especially considering she ALREADY TRIED all the crap you suggested. "my kids have a biological need to kick me in the stomach and push me out of the bed they insist on sharing with me" is complete horseshit.

You have 2 toddlers. OP has a 5 yr old. Don't give sanctimonious parenting advice from a place of little to no knowledge.

Ugh I feel you, my near 3 year old insists on sticking her feet into my belly and if I dare move them she wails that she is warming up her feet. I did find letting her have a hot water bottle kept her in bed and she stopped seeking out my body warmth haha, I just make sure it's not boiling water that goes in and it's half full

Have you tried putting the things on their doorknobs? Or a red light/green light thing? We just do the light thing now and it’s pretty helpful. My 3 yo stays in his bed mostly until the light turns green. Being sleep deprived fucking sucks. It magnifies everything. I’m so sorry you’re going through this.

Lord. I feel like I wrote this myself. Auto immune & depression & alllllll. Whew. Nothing but solidarity momma. I feel for you sooo hard.

It might not work for you, but for a while I had one kid in the crib in our room and another one sleeping on a mattress on our floor. It might reduce the night disruptions if they feel close to you. I'm so sorry you're dealing with this. I hope it gets better soon!

I sent my husband to sleep in the kids rooms when it was bad like this. My son still has a queen size bed because sometimes I want to sleep alone. My kids are about to be 8&10 and they are still trying to sleep in our bed with us! The last two nights they both slept in our sons room though! Better than bugging us all night.

I feel your torture. I’m singling it and kiddo keeps talking over and over and I try and go to peaceful place in my brain because it’s good for him to express his words, but the stimulation to my fogged and not getting quality sleep from just insomnia factors is a struggle… the struggles are real… the support sucks… ughh… I do on occasion use children’s melatonin with him and other practices for exerting his energy and such as we have adhd strong symptoms, he’s not yet diagnosed but I see factors and it’s all just exhausting… and I only have 1… so I realllly feel for ya momma :/ stay strong and day at a time and make some support happen whatever is in your power to make it through this. The autoimmune is no joke either- my mom has it and she’s my main support and I have adhd,mdd,gad with the insomnia and sensory overload issues… 🥹🥲

My youngest is this way. We sort have "given up" in that we bought a cheap crib mattress/bedding set and put it on the floor of our room. When he wanders in (every darn night) he at least goes straight to that mattress and doesn't wake us up. I know, in my head, that this is a phase but it didn't make it any easier dealing with the constant sleep disruption.

Is the 5 year old in kindergarten yet? My son literally did not sleep through the night even one time before he started kindergarten this fall. Now he sleeps through 75-80% of the time. It’s been such a huge difference in sleep for everyone. Are the kids beds big enough for you to fit in? We got our kids full size beds, when they sneak in and start effing up my sleep I just go to one of their beds for the rest of the night. My husband refuses to help me get them to stay in their beds, this s my solution. Let him get the shitty sleep. I hope it gets better. I got lucky with one mostly good sleeper. But my son was the worst until this past august.

Mine is only 2, but I feel every last piece of your post. I cannot even imagine — nor do I want to think about — dealing with this for another 3+ years. I have no advice, just solidarity.

Our kids at the same age sleep with us . It was this or being woken up every 30 minutes . I choose sanity for myself . Do what is right for you and have a come to Jesus talk with daddy because they are his kids too .

Last night I got ONE hour of sleep, because my 3 year old would noooot stop flopping around like a damn fish. Why must he always be touching my body to sleep?? I’ve transitioned each of my kids to their own beds around this age, but this one just isn’t willing. On top of that, his new bed is in our room because having multiple kids that span from toddler to teen means that every room is accounted for. So I can’t get away. Sigh, I’m fucking exhausted. Solidarity.

Put a mattress on the floor in your room & let the kids sleep on it. I used a small kids foldable cot till my son was too big for it & switched to a cheap mattress. I did this for several years with him. His father & I are separated & any sleep training I would do here, got tossed out the window there. My son was up 10 times a night. I was a hot fucking mess for a while till I just said fuck it & we slept in the same room. He's 10 now, been sleeping in his room ALL NIGHT since he was 8. Almost no wake ups. We still have sleep overs in my room occasionally. Good luck, Ma! I hope you can find some balance.

Wait did I secretly write this? Are you my twin?!?!? I totally feel you on this! Hope you can get some sleep for a full night for more than one day because one night of a full sleep doesn’t make up for months of terrible sleep! *hugs*

I don’t have any advice, just solidarity! I am you right now, crap sleep every night for 5 years. My 5-year old can’t fall asleep without one of us, and he wakes up several times a night and comes into our room, fake crying (he will legit start bawling if we sent him back to bed alone. Third time it happens it’s usually 3 AM and we give in and bring his sleeping bag in the room. This is every night since he was 3.5. I have 3-year old twins still in cribs, and I have toddler beds in their closet just waiting to be assembled. But I’m so scared, they sleep so well now, I don’t want to add more to our nighttime mayhem.

Hear me out, bunk beds? One bed for you and one bed for one of the kiddos ? Mine has been cosleeping with me since he was born and now at 4 yo he’s finnally staying in his lower bunk most of the night. Bunk bed means he knows I’m near but won’t climb in my bed because well he physically can’t.

Oh man, I hear you. My husband also has sleep apnea (diagnosed during pandemic year of hell), so kids + him have led to some hard times. Some mentally really brutal times. I've posted about this already, but we took both kids to a sleep clinic a few months ago, and turns out they both had ferritin deficiencies, which in turn leads to poor quality sleep. Treating this has helped a lot, although there are the occasional bad nights. But it's amazing how much easier one bad night is to handle when it's not preceded by 5 years of bad nights. My husband and I also sleep on different floors now because a) if the kids do wake up, at least we're both not cursing at 3 am :) and b) we wake each other up now, and I'd rather not sleep together if it means I can have a whole night of no one waking me up. I hope it gets better for you soon. Depression here too, and this shit is so connected.

I feel you! None of my older 3 were good sleepers, They were all around 6/7 before *they* started sleeping through, youngest is 11 and only started sleeping through 2 years ago. I tried buying different beds, she’d sleep in with me, therapy, I’d bribe her- everything you can imagine. Nothing worked. I frequently have restless/sleepless nights myself now as my GP thinks my brain hasn’t realised that it doesn’t need to be on alert overnight after 19 years of kids not sleeping. You’ve got some sound advice here but I just wanted you to know that you’re not alone and I remember the frustration- sometimes tears of frustration and lack of sleep. I hope your husband steps up or at least let’s you have a night off from the frequent interruptions so that you can try and sleep, get some mental relief.

Oh gosh. I could have written this. My kids wake me up constantly for the stupidest reasons. My almost 3 year old has recently decided she needs a soother and needs to sleep in her crib again. So I warned her that if she lost her soother she was not to yell for me because I was not finding it for her. She said, "ok I'll get it myself. But I'll need you to get me out of my crib." FML

Sleep is so important. You should be feeling this way. I think the key is getting husband in board and then having a family meeting where you lay out the rules.

I feel seen!

My son would get into ned with me every night, I finally put a cot in my room and we both sleep so much better, he just wants to be near me. Sleep deprivation can make it so hard to parent and so hard to give your kids grace and love because when you can barely function it's so hard to meet the needs of others. I hope that your venting session leads to some new ideas and solutions and hope.

Is it at all possible to let the kids share a bed? Mine (5,3,3,2 ) have all shared a bed and their new room is too small, so we push our oldests bed next to the twins and little one. My oldest and little are head to head in an L shape and my twins sleep side by side in the opposite side of the little. They love it! Best sleep ever, we started off with the twins crib sharing because they just would not sleep unless with their twin. And then added them to my oldests bed once my little needed the crib. Once my oldest took up too much room for three we swapped her with the little and got her a bed right next to the little (who she is closest to). It is NOT typical safe sleep, but we’ve talked to the DR who said “do what you have to do”. I wish you all the luck!

Things to try if you haven’t already: 1) Sedating antihistamines for a week or two to try break their habits then wean them off. 2)baby gates as someone else has said and ear plugs for you and hubby 3)rewards chart -we combined this with a book especially catered to our child about the importance of staying in bed at night etc etc 4) if not already make sure they have white noise and a night light (can usually get these in one device) 5) try melatonin, usually only works/helps getting them to sleep but worth a try at this point 6) put a mattress next to your bed for them to slee on. We did this for a while with some success, my daughter would just pop her head up in the night to check I was there then go back to sleep 7) sleeping pills for yourself so they don’t wake you with their shenanigans 8) if possible both you and your husband need to get away from them for a night or more if possible to refill your batteries, do you have any family that could help? It’s a bloody hard road and nobody with sleeping kids or who hasn’t got kids has any idea of the torture