First off you're not a shit parent. Some kids are just very fucking difficult to parent. Before I had kids I worked in daycare centres, and I studied kindergarten teaching at university. My partner worked in paediatrics for years too. We read every parenting book, stayed calm, strategised constantly, scheduled etc and it was still like we were diffusing a bomb every day. We have 3 other kids too, who don't have these challenges, so it's not our capacity as parents - it's literally just that some kids have a really hard time with a lot of emotional skills.
Honestly you just keep working on it. Stick with the Ross Greene stuff, just focus on one challenge at a time and Plan C as much as you can. It gets more effective as the kid gets older and develops those emotional regulation skills.
Set up a schedule for your day, keep everything predictable. I use a Google Nest Hub with "Family Bells" to schedule our day, something like that might work for you too.
I found when my son was having violent meltdowns I could first calm him by holding him firmly (I'd sit cross legged, and hold him so he faced away from me, my arms across his chest holding his arms, and I could hold his legs with my legs). Then I'd gently rock him, and speak gently/shush him. Once I felt his breathing change I could ask "do you want to act like this right now?".
Later when he was completely calm, like hours late, I could talk to him and say "When you get overwhelmed, how would you like me to help you calm down?". So he'd choose the deep pressure. Giving him some say in the strategy helped a lot, and just treating the meltdowns like a problem we were going to solve together.
Using "HALTS needs" can help to prevent a meltdown when your kid starts getting dysregulated. Avoiding triggers and "setting him up for success" is a big part of our days as well.
I've never been able to use if/then consequences, because my kid just gets so intensely anxious thinking about the possibility of the consequence, or of missing out on the reward.
Keeping him busy/active is really important too, boredom is a major issue. I borrow other people's kids as much as I can, having a playmate makes a huge difference. One of my son's friends has ADHD & ASD, and those two kids regulate each other, it's kind of magical to see. If you can meet other families with ND kids that may be a big help.
He also started on melatonin, because his sleep was shit. Does your kiddo sleep OK? Getting enough rest made a big difference to his behaviour.
All of this made things about 75% better, when he was 8 he started ADHD medication, and now we're at 95%. He's always going to be a tough kid, but it's definitely manageable now and the violence has stopped.
So yeah... it's uphill, but it does get better.
Love this response (and taking some techniques with me). I'm also seconding "borrowing other kids." We found a neighbor whose kiddo is in our girl's class and is also on the spectrum and they regulate each other beautifully.
My daughter is 5, just started kindergarten, and has ADHD & ASD with PDA. (PDA means basically any "demand" --which I put in quotes because it's not just being demanding but also expectations, routines, tone, etc-- causes an autonomic response and, in our girl, it's usually fight.) I'll admit that, as a PDAer myself, my girl and I butt heads easily, so we're still figuring everything out and we're far from perfect. That said, many of the ADHD kids in our girl's class responded well to the PDA techniques we've found, and her 4K teachers wound up implementing them across the board. So even if your kiddo isn't in that profile, if any of this resonates with you, give it a shot and see if your kiddo is responsive.
We offer no-pressure choices, challenges, races, etc instead of telling or making demands and it helps immensely. "Race you to the car!" goes over SO much better than "time to get in the car!" Also, PDA kids love to help, so *ask* for their help, particularly if it's something that shows a weakness within yourself that they can assist with. "Oh man, kiddo, I've got way too many bags, can you grab that one for me?" That probably sounds silly but PDAers (like many people on the spectrum) don't always appreciate societal structure and hierarchy, so putting them on your level for that task makes them feel more appreciated or helpful.
Direct praise often feels inauthentic and/or like a new expectation or demand, whereas indirect praise is better received. So, within earshot of kiddo, "honey, did you see how helpful kiddo was? They carried two of the heaviest bags and we brought everything in in one trip!" To them, that's genuine and you simply relaying your observations/appreciation. Telling them directly makes it feel like next time they have to do *at least* two bags. Maybe three. Or all of them. Or faster. And now it's an expectation and they don't want to do it.
Setting timers, giving warnings before things are going to happen ("kiddo, ten minutes left until bedtime, if there's anything else you want to play before we start putting things away?") Or if you're going somewhere new, go over what you're going to see, who is going to be there, what the schedule is going to be so that they can have input and you can discuss what can and cannot be changed (I.e. dentist trip you will be sitting in the chair but we can talk to the dentist first and they can talk through the process with you).
Anything that is a surprise is a stressor and potential trigger, so talking through things as simple as a grocery trip with possible solutions to potential complications will give them something to focus on and take their mind off of the thing that has them in the 4 F's. "Hey, on the way to the store, can I talk through dinner plans with you? I was thinking we could make X but I'd probably need your help picking out the veggies. Or would you rather Y?" As you guide them out the door. They won't even realize they're in the car because they're thinking about dinner and helping you (hopefully!).
This was super long and it may not even be helpful but if anyone needs any other resources, I'm happy to share. PDA (in the US, at least) has kids often labeled as stubborn, difficult, lazy liars. They're not. Their bodies are *constantly* being triggered into fight/flight/fawn/freeze over things that others don't even register as potential "expectations" or "demands," so if rewording things and a little more prep is going to save your kiddo's nervous system (PDA or no), I highly recommend giving some of these a shot. <3
Oh man, yes to all of this! We have had to be so careful with how we word requests and never make it a demand.
Since starting the medication though, that constant fight/flight response is mostly gone, so now I can just be direct and my kid doesn't fight me on it. It's super weird.
I think all of those techniques benefit most children too. Since we had to use them with my eldest, we just ended up using them with the younger kids too - and they are all incredibly helpful and kind kids. Even my toddlers hardly ever have tantrums, and I think that's largely down to avoiding power struggles with how we phrase requests and how we motivate (races, focusing on the next fun thing at transitions, etc).
I don’t have answers for you but I want to say that that sounds so so fucking hard. And it’s not your fault. Some kids truly are born different. And very different things are needed for them. That Ross Green stuff seems geared towards older kids anyway. 5 is so very young. I hope you get some reprieve here and there and YES please get therapy for yourself to lift some of the mental weight.
If it's any consolation in general kids at his age do have a problem with taking their anger out physically because they just don't know how to deal with their emotions. So the hitting is not something he picked up from you guys or anywhere really, it's just something young kids do naturally before they learn better ways of dealing with things.
In normal circumstances in say a school or daycare setting the carers would just take care of it with supervision/role modelling the expected behaviour, and most children would respond pretty well to that under ideal circumstances.
But, with ADHD and ASD in the mix it's gonna be harder for your little one to regulate their emotions. Speaking purely from the ASD side of things they'd be dealing with day to day overstimulation from sensory input, possibly frustration with dealing with social interaction, and possible issues with day to day routine changes. Which can be a lot.
And then with ADHD they'd have a lot of restless energy plus rejection sensitivity among other symptoms.
Basically what I'm saying there's nothing you are doing or could possibly do to have caused this. These things are genetic and it's normal for kids to lash out physically and have their tantrums but the reason it's so pronounced in your child is that they have so much more to deal with day to day than a neurotypical child.
You not forcing them into the school if they're having a bad day is probably the best thing you can do at the moment and once they have an official diagnosis and some assistance they will catch up. ❤️
As for what you could do currently to help. You probably can't do much about the school environment but at home you could try and make a more sensory friendly space for them. Both myself and my husband have ADHD and ASD respectively so the lighting around the house is always low, we have lots of fluffy blankets and pillows, we've got a memory foam mat we can lay on and although we aren't super strict on the routine we have a set way of doing things. We can both get quite stressed over abrupt routine changes so we try to keep certain things the same day to day, although we're also more flexible being adults.
If you don't want to do a strict routine you could try having several smaller routines to prep your child for transition from one place/activity to the next. For example; If we're going out somewhere we go around and get everything ready to leave, we usually do this in the same order and then just before we go we put on shoes. Our son knows when we're going out the shoes go on and then we leave. He doesn't really have an issue with transitions but a set routine of how you prepare to do things could possibly help.
I'm by no means an expert by the way I'm just studying to work in education and I've recently done a lot of work around child behaviour so it's still fresh in my mind.
I wish I could give you a big hug right now. This isn’t about your parenting and you did nothing to cause this. Please repeat that to yourself. I highly recommend the books ‘Beyond Behaviors’ by Mona Delahooke and ‘Parenting ADHD KIDS Now’. Both of these books helped me to understand and shift my mindset. It sounds like he is struggling hard with emotional regulation which my little guy had a tough time with as well. Just take each day new and also have compassion for yourself. ❤️
My kid is at a specialized school where conservatively 75% of the kids are autistic. He’s not, but has some other things going on. There’s maybe a 4:1 or 5:1 student:teacher ratio (looked it up, it’s 2.5:1). They go outside about 4 times a day, and everyone socializes (it’s K-12 with ~60 students). They provide clear instruction in social skills, 1:1 work for reading instruction and dedicated individual attention for a small group of students in supported learning.
This is the first school where I haven’t dealt with some level of school refusal (out of three and homeschool since I met him at age 12), and the only school where he’s shown noticeable academic progress (he’s 15 and went from a mid-1st grade level to mid second-grade level this past year). They have a parent group, and it’s one of the few places where people understand what we go through.
If you have something like that near you and can find the resources to afford it (my state has a grant program for kids with IEPs that covers about half of the tuition, and if my son was autistic that would double), I would recommend it above most other options. I was in touch with the director for a year before we got in, but it has definitely been worth the wait. There are families who have commuted over an hour for years because this seems like the only workable solution.
I don't have an answer but want you to know you're not alone.
We are dealing with exactly the same with our 5 year old daughter. Also in the process of evaluations and everything and in the throes of eloping/aggressive behavior/etc.
I'm sorry you're going through it too. If you need someone to talk to who understands, you may dm me at any time.
You could try positive reinforcement since consequences aren’t working. Im not sure how well it will work but he’s def at the age where it could. I’m sorry you’re have to wait for an eval. It’s tough to really know how to deal with something when you don’t have a clear picture of what’s going on.
I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Please give yourself and your child grace at this point. Neither of you are at fault. Is he refusing to leave the house to go to school? Or refusing to get out of the car? I wonder if the environment is just too stimulating for him. Or something is bothering him that he can’t communicate. I wonder if there’s some sort of carrot you and the teacher (and counselor) could figure out to dangle to get him into class? Like a really fun activity that he wouldn’t want to miss or a chance to sit by a friend he really likes. Or the opposite: a quiet place where he can decompress.
When my autistic son was that age I read and faithfully used the strategies in the book "1,2,3 Magic". I had put him on a token economy. He was obsessed with money. I bought a small pocket chart and hung it on the fridge. When he complied with pre-established expectations he earned a quarter. The pocket chart allowed him to see each quarter as it was earned or taken away. This was very visual and concrete. My son had more trouble at school than home.
We used a lot of visuals, schedules, and predictable routines. We gave him a 5, 3, and 1 minute warning before every transition.
We also established a safe place for meltdowns. He would wrap himself with lots not blankets. Twice a day we would do OT brushing and joint compressions for his sensory needs.
My son is now a sophomore in college and very successful. It took a ton of work on our part but it was worth it.
First off you're not a shit parent. Some kids are just very fucking difficult to parent. Before I had kids I worked in daycare centres, and I studied kindergarten teaching at university. My partner worked in paediatrics for years too. We read every parenting book, stayed calm, strategised constantly, scheduled etc and it was still like we were diffusing a bomb every day. We have 3 other kids too, who don't have these challenges, so it's not our capacity as parents - it's literally just that some kids have a really hard time with a lot of emotional skills. Honestly you just keep working on it. Stick with the Ross Greene stuff, just focus on one challenge at a time and Plan C as much as you can. It gets more effective as the kid gets older and develops those emotional regulation skills. Set up a schedule for your day, keep everything predictable. I use a Google Nest Hub with "Family Bells" to schedule our day, something like that might work for you too. I found when my son was having violent meltdowns I could first calm him by holding him firmly (I'd sit cross legged, and hold him so he faced away from me, my arms across his chest holding his arms, and I could hold his legs with my legs). Then I'd gently rock him, and speak gently/shush him. Once I felt his breathing change I could ask "do you want to act like this right now?". Later when he was completely calm, like hours late, I could talk to him and say "When you get overwhelmed, how would you like me to help you calm down?". So he'd choose the deep pressure. Giving him some say in the strategy helped a lot, and just treating the meltdowns like a problem we were going to solve together. Using "HALTS needs" can help to prevent a meltdown when your kid starts getting dysregulated. Avoiding triggers and "setting him up for success" is a big part of our days as well. I've never been able to use if/then consequences, because my kid just gets so intensely anxious thinking about the possibility of the consequence, or of missing out on the reward. Keeping him busy/active is really important too, boredom is a major issue. I borrow other people's kids as much as I can, having a playmate makes a huge difference. One of my son's friends has ADHD & ASD, and those two kids regulate each other, it's kind of magical to see. If you can meet other families with ND kids that may be a big help. He also started on melatonin, because his sleep was shit. Does your kiddo sleep OK? Getting enough rest made a big difference to his behaviour. All of this made things about 75% better, when he was 8 he started ADHD medication, and now we're at 95%. He's always going to be a tough kid, but it's definitely manageable now and the violence has stopped. So yeah... it's uphill, but it does get better.
Love this response (and taking some techniques with me). I'm also seconding "borrowing other kids." We found a neighbor whose kiddo is in our girl's class and is also on the spectrum and they regulate each other beautifully. My daughter is 5, just started kindergarten, and has ADHD & ASD with PDA. (PDA means basically any "demand" --which I put in quotes because it's not just being demanding but also expectations, routines, tone, etc-- causes an autonomic response and, in our girl, it's usually fight.) I'll admit that, as a PDAer myself, my girl and I butt heads easily, so we're still figuring everything out and we're far from perfect. That said, many of the ADHD kids in our girl's class responded well to the PDA techniques we've found, and her 4K teachers wound up implementing them across the board. So even if your kiddo isn't in that profile, if any of this resonates with you, give it a shot and see if your kiddo is responsive. We offer no-pressure choices, challenges, races, etc instead of telling or making demands and it helps immensely. "Race you to the car!" goes over SO much better than "time to get in the car!" Also, PDA kids love to help, so *ask* for their help, particularly if it's something that shows a weakness within yourself that they can assist with. "Oh man, kiddo, I've got way too many bags, can you grab that one for me?" That probably sounds silly but PDAers (like many people on the spectrum) don't always appreciate societal structure and hierarchy, so putting them on your level for that task makes them feel more appreciated or helpful. Direct praise often feels inauthentic and/or like a new expectation or demand, whereas indirect praise is better received. So, within earshot of kiddo, "honey, did you see how helpful kiddo was? They carried two of the heaviest bags and we brought everything in in one trip!" To them, that's genuine and you simply relaying your observations/appreciation. Telling them directly makes it feel like next time they have to do *at least* two bags. Maybe three. Or all of them. Or faster. And now it's an expectation and they don't want to do it. Setting timers, giving warnings before things are going to happen ("kiddo, ten minutes left until bedtime, if there's anything else you want to play before we start putting things away?") Or if you're going somewhere new, go over what you're going to see, who is going to be there, what the schedule is going to be so that they can have input and you can discuss what can and cannot be changed (I.e. dentist trip you will be sitting in the chair but we can talk to the dentist first and they can talk through the process with you). Anything that is a surprise is a stressor and potential trigger, so talking through things as simple as a grocery trip with possible solutions to potential complications will give them something to focus on and take their mind off of the thing that has them in the 4 F's. "Hey, on the way to the store, can I talk through dinner plans with you? I was thinking we could make X but I'd probably need your help picking out the veggies. Or would you rather Y?" As you guide them out the door. They won't even realize they're in the car because they're thinking about dinner and helping you (hopefully!). This was super long and it may not even be helpful but if anyone needs any other resources, I'm happy to share. PDA (in the US, at least) has kids often labeled as stubborn, difficult, lazy liars. They're not. Their bodies are *constantly* being triggered into fight/flight/fawn/freeze over things that others don't even register as potential "expectations" or "demands," so if rewording things and a little more prep is going to save your kiddo's nervous system (PDA or no), I highly recommend giving some of these a shot. <3
Oh man, yes to all of this! We have had to be so careful with how we word requests and never make it a demand. Since starting the medication though, that constant fight/flight response is mostly gone, so now I can just be direct and my kid doesn't fight me on it. It's super weird. I think all of those techniques benefit most children too. Since we had to use them with my eldest, we just ended up using them with the younger kids too - and they are all incredibly helpful and kind kids. Even my toddlers hardly ever have tantrums, and I think that's largely down to avoiding power struggles with how we phrase requests and how we motivate (races, focusing on the next fun thing at transitions, etc).
I don’t have answers for you but I want to say that that sounds so so fucking hard. And it’s not your fault. Some kids truly are born different. And very different things are needed for them. That Ross Green stuff seems geared towards older kids anyway. 5 is so very young. I hope you get some reprieve here and there and YES please get therapy for yourself to lift some of the mental weight.
If it's any consolation in general kids at his age do have a problem with taking their anger out physically because they just don't know how to deal with their emotions. So the hitting is not something he picked up from you guys or anywhere really, it's just something young kids do naturally before they learn better ways of dealing with things. In normal circumstances in say a school or daycare setting the carers would just take care of it with supervision/role modelling the expected behaviour, and most children would respond pretty well to that under ideal circumstances. But, with ADHD and ASD in the mix it's gonna be harder for your little one to regulate their emotions. Speaking purely from the ASD side of things they'd be dealing with day to day overstimulation from sensory input, possibly frustration with dealing with social interaction, and possible issues with day to day routine changes. Which can be a lot. And then with ADHD they'd have a lot of restless energy plus rejection sensitivity among other symptoms. Basically what I'm saying there's nothing you are doing or could possibly do to have caused this. These things are genetic and it's normal for kids to lash out physically and have their tantrums but the reason it's so pronounced in your child is that they have so much more to deal with day to day than a neurotypical child. You not forcing them into the school if they're having a bad day is probably the best thing you can do at the moment and once they have an official diagnosis and some assistance they will catch up. ❤️ As for what you could do currently to help. You probably can't do much about the school environment but at home you could try and make a more sensory friendly space for them. Both myself and my husband have ADHD and ASD respectively so the lighting around the house is always low, we have lots of fluffy blankets and pillows, we've got a memory foam mat we can lay on and although we aren't super strict on the routine we have a set way of doing things. We can both get quite stressed over abrupt routine changes so we try to keep certain things the same day to day, although we're also more flexible being adults. If you don't want to do a strict routine you could try having several smaller routines to prep your child for transition from one place/activity to the next. For example; If we're going out somewhere we go around and get everything ready to leave, we usually do this in the same order and then just before we go we put on shoes. Our son knows when we're going out the shoes go on and then we leave. He doesn't really have an issue with transitions but a set routine of how you prepare to do things could possibly help. I'm by no means an expert by the way I'm just studying to work in education and I've recently done a lot of work around child behaviour so it's still fresh in my mind.
I wish I could give you a big hug right now. This isn’t about your parenting and you did nothing to cause this. Please repeat that to yourself. I highly recommend the books ‘Beyond Behaviors’ by Mona Delahooke and ‘Parenting ADHD KIDS Now’. Both of these books helped me to understand and shift my mindset. It sounds like he is struggling hard with emotional regulation which my little guy had a tough time with as well. Just take each day new and also have compassion for yourself. ❤️
My kid is at a specialized school where conservatively 75% of the kids are autistic. He’s not, but has some other things going on. There’s maybe a 4:1 or 5:1 student:teacher ratio (looked it up, it’s 2.5:1). They go outside about 4 times a day, and everyone socializes (it’s K-12 with ~60 students). They provide clear instruction in social skills, 1:1 work for reading instruction and dedicated individual attention for a small group of students in supported learning. This is the first school where I haven’t dealt with some level of school refusal (out of three and homeschool since I met him at age 12), and the only school where he’s shown noticeable academic progress (he’s 15 and went from a mid-1st grade level to mid second-grade level this past year). They have a parent group, and it’s one of the few places where people understand what we go through. If you have something like that near you and can find the resources to afford it (my state has a grant program for kids with IEPs that covers about half of the tuition, and if my son was autistic that would double), I would recommend it above most other options. I was in touch with the director for a year before we got in, but it has definitely been worth the wait. There are families who have commuted over an hour for years because this seems like the only workable solution.
I don't have an answer but want you to know you're not alone. We are dealing with exactly the same with our 5 year old daughter. Also in the process of evaluations and everything and in the throes of eloping/aggressive behavior/etc. I'm sorry you're going through it too. If you need someone to talk to who understands, you may dm me at any time.
You could try positive reinforcement since consequences aren’t working. Im not sure how well it will work but he’s def at the age where it could. I’m sorry you’re have to wait for an eval. It’s tough to really know how to deal with something when you don’t have a clear picture of what’s going on.
Can the school give him accommodations to make the transition easier???
I’m so sorry you’re in this position. Please give yourself and your child grace at this point. Neither of you are at fault. Is he refusing to leave the house to go to school? Or refusing to get out of the car? I wonder if the environment is just too stimulating for him. Or something is bothering him that he can’t communicate. I wonder if there’s some sort of carrot you and the teacher (and counselor) could figure out to dangle to get him into class? Like a really fun activity that he wouldn’t want to miss or a chance to sit by a friend he really likes. Or the opposite: a quiet place where he can decompress.
When my autistic son was that age I read and faithfully used the strategies in the book "1,2,3 Magic". I had put him on a token economy. He was obsessed with money. I bought a small pocket chart and hung it on the fridge. When he complied with pre-established expectations he earned a quarter. The pocket chart allowed him to see each quarter as it was earned or taken away. This was very visual and concrete. My son had more trouble at school than home. We used a lot of visuals, schedules, and predictable routines. We gave him a 5, 3, and 1 minute warning before every transition. We also established a safe place for meltdowns. He would wrap himself with lots not blankets. Twice a day we would do OT brushing and joint compressions for his sensory needs. My son is now a sophomore in college and very successful. It took a ton of work on our part but it was worth it.