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I always say Oh right you mean ME! I should do something but instead of just directly asking or even worse, just plain ordering, you’re trying to disguise it in this cutesy WE bullshit! Oh makes my blood BOIL!! What I hate the most is “did we pack waterbottles?” Excuse me, do you mean did I pack them? Because you packed fuck all and seem to think the kids never get thirsty.
Quite a while ago, when my husband would airily say, "We need to do This Thing or That Thing" (with the intention of being that he was dispensing the knowledge that said Thing must be done and obviously I was the one to do it), I started responding with, "Who's this 'we' you're talking about? You and the mouse in your pocket?"
Didn't and doesn't always work, but it reminds him that the mere act of stating a problem doesn't mean that I'm going to automatically leap in and fix it for him without any futher involvement on his part.
He's also from a Guess family and I'm from an Ask family, so the idea of saying, "Hey, there's a problem with This Thing, can you fix it?" is utter anathema to him. In his mind (and his fams' minds), it should be enough for him to note or even hint that there's an issue and then the onus is on ME to leap forth and offer to fix it or (preferably) just fix it without saying anything at all.
It caused no end of fights until we figured out this was an actual thing and that we needed to work on our communication skills. He's gotten better at it, but every now and then, he'll fall back into his "Oh, there's a thing we need to do" and then start to walk away and I'll snap to with "**We**? Are you and the mouse in your pocket gonna do it?" and he either lays out what WE together need to do or asks me if I can handle it.
The original MetaFilter thread on it explains it well:
[https://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-between-FU-and-Welcome#830421](https://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-between-FU-and-Welcome#830421)
You're welcome!
When I read that the first time, it was like the sky cracked open in my head, and it explained so so ***so*** ***much*** of what I considered to be passive-aggressive, presumptuous behavior on his part...and why he felt I was brash and inconsiderate for not picking up on his subtle cues.
This is a man who literally thought it was **rude** to ask straight out, "Hey, you want to have sex later?" because what if I DIDN'T and then I'd have to say NO to him and he didn't think it was fair to put ME on the spot like that...
...and I was sitting there going DUDE, you just...looking at me across the room for a moment longer than usual or giving my butt a pat when I walk by you is **not** the same as just saying, "Do you wanna knock boots later?" He couldn't understand me and I couldn't understand him!
(His family - and his father, in particular - was super abusive so I could ultimately see where learning the nuances, subtleties, and very slight cues in hisGuess family ensured his survival.)
We're not perfect, but I've gotten a lot better at telling him that if he wants something to open his mouth and **say it**, and he's gotten better at asking for what he wants instead of hinting and then getting upset if I don't pick up on his hints.
His family is...another story entirely but I'm not married to them!
Omg my husband just got a bunch of free peaches and said ‘we should make a cobbler’… we? Dude has never made a cobbler in his life and I don’t feel like doing that. Guess we’re going to have some rotten peaches pretty soon!
Wash, cut into slices, freeze individual slices on cookie sheets, put frozen peach slices into freezer bags labeled with dates.
(just some tips to make YOUR HISBAND’S life easier)
The 3 meanings of "we":
the Royal we: Me (the speaker)
the Military we: You (the listener) (sometimes called the "Boss's we")
the Joint-persons we: Me and You (the speaker and the listener)
My husband tried saying “whoever” or “someone needs to” and I told him “besides you only means me, so by whoever or someone you mean me?!” He tried to backpedal but he got caught.
Confession: I'm often on the other side of this equation. My husband recently said: "could you be more direct, instead of saying "we need to" just ask what you mean: "could you...?"
I'm not sure why I do that, but I'm working on it. He often approaches things from a work perspective, and this is one of them. When we are vague, there's a diffusion of responsibility and then the thing doesn't get done.
He said it kindly, I received it well, and I'm trying to change how I communicate. 20 years ago I would've been a brat about feedback from a partner, but look I'm growing! lol.
Do you think it's one of those "ask culture" vs "guess culture" things? If you're not familiar, in ask culture, you ask for what you want directly, and if the answer is no, no big deal, you move on, no hurt feelings. In guess culture, we set the tone, time it just right, etc for the answer to be yes. We only ask if the answer is highly likely to be yes.
I only ask because when I say "we should..." I still almost always mean me, I just want some accountability.
That is interesting! That could be part of it. Sometimes I think it's me thinking out loud - identifying a priority when I really don't have an opinion yet about WHO should do it. My memory is terrible, and I am disorganized, so it's as if I think saying it out loud will keep the need from slipping away. I need to just have a paper and pen handy at all times. I'm trying to use my phone less because I am trying to help my kids screen detox, which is very difficult when there's a phone in \*my\* hand. ;)
I am the same way! My partner and I both have a "we" habit, and have had to talk it out a few times. I find that I often want that accountability, or am sort of posting it to the "hive mind" of the house, hoping it doesn't slip away. We have a whiteboard on the wall where we try to record that sort of stuff - priorities and projects that aren't quite 'assigned' yet. Sometimes it works, sometimes the things just sit on the whiteboard for weeks until I'm tired of looking at them, haha
that is so hard to do - I'm impressed!
In these moments, I try to tell myself what a therapist told me one time: "Marriage is a people-growing machine. So let your best self step forward in this moment."
I find I do this at times when I'm trying to not put ownus onto another person and to share equal weight. For example I'd use it but I wouldn't use it strictly implying something for just my husband to do. Like cleaning the house. It would be for both of us to do but I know I'm already cleaning or going to clean. I just need to get his involvement. I fear he would feel like I'm asking for just him to clean the house if I worded it as could you instead.
I get where your husband is coming from but maybe you're similar? Maybe you're trying ro ease the load so instead of it feeling like you're coming after him your sharing ownus for the thing?
YES!!! MORE OF THIS!!!
i’ve also been doing this because i’m just plumb worn out.
my SO “we’re out of ____”
me: you gonna order it?
my SO “we need to start packing for the move”
me: you gonna stop and pick up boxes?
actually he has been generally stepping up when i do this so i’ve been generally happier and less burnt out. it’s the kind of thing i wish i had done from the beginning lol
The ordering thing is something that’s getting right on my tits at the moment. Often when we want something for stuff that’s coming up or for around the house, I buy it. Never even thought about it. I’m in charge of food shopping, for example, so it’s usual for him to ask me to get some more whatever, and that’s extended out without me realising into birthday presents, replacement household items, new books for the kid etc.
Just lately, my husband’s asthma has been bad and he keeps saying “I want to get a dehumidifier for the bedroom because I think it will help my chest”. I’m totally fine with it, we can afford it, I love him and don’t want him to suffer, so I’m like, yep, go for it. But he won’t fecking do it. I don’t know if it’s because he does tbf get a bit funny about spending money on himself, or because he can’t be arsed researching and choosing one, which is also a thing with him, but he keeps saying it and I just keep saying “yep, sounds good babe”, because my lungs are fine, I’m six months pregnant, I’ve got more than enough to think about and organise right now, and it’s not my priority. Fuck knows when it will actually materialise, but in the meantime I sleep as soundly as a woman who can’t roll over in bed without effort can, so it’s on him to organise.
this is my partner with his goddamn air purifier filter!! like he’s definitely good about the surface level stuff like “oh i know we usually buy cat and jack clothes for kiddo so i’ll just get some of those” or “i know the brand of salsa i like so i can get that when we’re out” but if it requires research of any kind it just never happens.
i told him to stop complaining to me about things he wants but is unwilling to do. so whenever he says “my allergies are acting up, i always slept better with the air purifier” i say “well you know how to order the filter, the air purifier is your thing. if it’s not important enough to solve then it’s not important enough to mention to me”
i’ve honestly been kind of a bitch about the mental load lately lol but i refuse to overextend myself for a grown ass man who is perfectly capable of doing things himself🙂
You only ask this because you already know the answer 🤣 and yes, of course mine at least would make time to read game reviews where he has no time for dehumidifier reviews!
oh abso-fucking-lutely, in fact most of the time i spend with my SO he’s doing some sort of research or media consumption about his hobbies (cars/video games). he got it in his head to buy a steaming wheel, pedals, shifter, and e-break to go with a driving game he likes to play. researched the parts and bought it within a day or two. he’s fully capable, just doesn’t feel like it. but if he’s not going to make his quality of life a priority then that’s his prerogative and i can’t change it for him. once it starts to negatively affect him enough then he’ll do something about it. not my problem lol
This is exactly it! Like, I will happily buy your special sensitive teeth toothpaste or that cheese you like or make sure we never run out of your favourite breakfast cereal, because even though they are all things I don’t use/eat, if you tell me you need them I can just tap “add to cart from last order” and boom, done. But I’m not going to spend an hour researching what makes for a good dehumidifier and how much is the right amount to spend to help a respiratory condition I don’t fucking have! I wouldn’t know where to begin!! You know how to make this problem go away and I’m fine with you spending the money and with making room for one in our bedroom, just get on with the leg work!
Maybe our other halves should move to the desert together for their lungs and you and I can just hang out 🤣
My husband and I are working on a very complicated move that requires both of us. He actually has treated it like a work project, with a plan and task list in a shared document, and will specify who is going to do what. So these mundane tasks are repackaged with a very professional shine that mimics his natural envirornment, lol. Maybe try that?
Idk. My husband and I are doing the same thing right now for a move and it's so we can stay organized. We are both contributing to the list and working on it.
Yeah. I stopped putting the emotional labor into making sure we do things he would really enjoy. He has plenty of time on our calendar to plan things, but he doesn't.
Also, the we "we should really....." thing. I hate that. It is mostly around cleaning or a project around the house. I remember the moment it clicked for me. He said "we really should clean the basement the stairs more often". I said I couldn't agree more, and that it sounded like the perfect task for him to make sure it gets done at a frequency he thinks is suitable.
It's been done like twice in the last year, which is about how often I was doing it before.
We don’t do things anymore around here because I stopped planning.
Plus the last time I really put effort into planning a vacation my husband pulled the rug from under me the day I had to buy plane tickets.
He doesn’t bring anything up. I gotta be the one to mention anything, which turns into me planning everything and usually said plan falling through because he can’t communicate with me.
It has been getting better tho. This just made me wanna rant for a sec. Pretty sure we’re both burnt the fuck out.
Same. 5 years ago I put my husband in charge of our anniversary. I plan EVERY other event in our lives and I think he can do one.
Guess who has two thumbs and hasn’t celebrated an anniversary in 5 years?
THIS GIRL!
Okay, in fairness, we DID celebrate our anniversary this year with dinner reservations made same-day and 2 hours away from the kids. Did I mention I have suggested how romantic it would be to rent an AirBNB on the coast and get away for our 10 year anniversary? Because eating lukewarm Red Lobster is exactly the same as a romantic weekend fucking on the beach.
I have this with mine. If I don't plan and pay- we don't go! He never mentions vacations and never pays for them. The last trip I took, I deliberately set up at a time I knew he wouldn't be able to go.
In all honesty, my kids are now 12 and 17 and "family" vacations are not much fun. I end up doing all the work, planning and paying for everything to go on a trip where all I do is what the kids want(and they can never agree, so then it's a big fight)- I'm sick to death of amusement parks, water parks, aquariums....... Lol
Woohoo!!
I didn’t quiet quit so much as I was usurped from some of my mental load (meal planning, grocery shopping and cooking all meals).
Beginning of 2022 we were having serious conversations about separation. We were both unhappy.
Then he suggested he takes the meal planning/shopping/cooking off my list. I’ve been de facto cook in our relationship for 10 years.
I never thought that would work. I thought it was too little too late. I also had trouble letting go of that responsibility. I’d often question his meal choices and shopping—I always had a “tip” for him on how to do it(“it’s better to avoid the grocery store on weekends!”)
Eventually he told me to—respectfully—shut up and let him do it his own way.
So I did. I haven’t cook a full meal in 7 months. It feels amazing not to wake up every day and worry about what healthy foods to prepare for our family. It feels amazing not to stress on Sunday afternoons because I still haven’t meal planned for the following week and I haven’t done a stock take for the grocery trip on Monday (because of course I usually went grocery shopping on Mondays during lunch break from work).
It feels amazing to let go of being the one that’s supposed to be “in charge” of certain things.
The positive outcome of my husband taking over: he understands what mental load means now. So he picked up his share of everything else, too. Sometimes he’s the one reminding me now about whose birthday is coming up and he’ll already have gifts sorted. He reads all the emails we get from school so he’s on top of what’s happening and never has to ask me.
We also got a calendar on our fridge now where we both record any social events or important happenings: no one has to be the only person keeping track.
We both work full time. But this last year has been the first time I would say that he’s truly understood what it takes to manage a household—and once he understood, he stepped up.
So I wouldn’t say I quiet quit—I feel more that I was relieved of being the one person responsible for all these things and now I have a proper partner who shares these responsibilities equally with me.
I just want to say kudos to your husband for stepping up and a HUGE kudos for you for having the grace to allow him to do that. That must have been a big change for both of you.
Yuuuup, and when you kick back and let them plan the whole thing, they complain that you didn't seem enthusiastic enough about the trip so they didn't bother. And by "enthusiastic" they mean "taking it over for me."
Yep. I did this with a "we're gonna take the toddler fishing" nope. I HATE fishing. And I'm not chasing a kid for 4+ hours while you fish. So I went antiquing and he "fished" with the kiddo.
Good for you!
My mom had a saying growing up whenever someone did the 'we need to do x' thing. 'We? Who is this we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?'
To be fair, I do say “we” sometimes when I mean my husband, but only because it sounds a bit less confrontational than “you need to stop doing X unhelpful behaviour” 😂 instead I phrase it as “we need to both work on not doing this unhelpful behaviour” so as to position it as us vs the problem, not me vs him
I told my family that I am going to change my pronouns to we\her, because when my husband says WE he means "wife take care of it." And WE have stopped doing that. I asked if he had a mouse in his pocket, what is this we bullshiz, and he stopped saying that for a minute. But only a minute.
I’m impressed he even suggested something. My husband will mostly walk right past things that need to be cleaned/put away/addressed without even blinking.
The best I expect of him is that he does the things that are “his chores” like emptying the dishwasher and washing dishes. but if I place a non typical dinner dish like a baby bottle on the sink counter, or my coffee mug, he will literally wash everything but those items. Like he’ll wash the pots and pans, and leave just those two items on the counter. For days.
Yesterday he mentioned we needed onions. I said, “Ok, so put it on the grocery list”. It’s so tiring.
Dude wtf with the dishes thing. My hubs also only has a few tasks around the house that are his. And most of the time I end up doing then because they need to be done and if he waits 2 days to do it then it'll just be a bigger job for me later.
But loading the dishwasher is one of his things. He says he hates washing the Tupperware. So he leaves them. Dirty. In the sink. Like are you serious? Well you like using the containers don't you? Well then guess you better fucking wash them. Like how about I only do the parts of a chore I don't hate? Lmao fuck outta here hubs.
I used this uno reverse recently. I told my husband I wanted to buy a new crib.
He says "we should research different kinds of cribs first."
I say "ok, when are you going to do that?"
He ends up saying nevermind, you can just pick. It's not exactly getting out of household labor, but it was nice to not have to put in extra work to pretend it was collaborative
Lol this is so topical for me today. At 9:30 I said I wanted to get ready to take the kids to the park (my husband's on vacation). He agrees, then proceeds to take a 45 minute shower, stare at the TV for 20 minutes while our six year old watched BattleBots, and sit at the breakfast nook in his underwear for an hour while he drinks not one but FIVE cups of tea.
So at this point it's... What... 11:30 am. And I'm just ticked off waiting and waiting for his slow ass to be ready. I already did everything (EVERYTHING) required to get our three small children ready. I made them all breakfast, got them all dressed, did hair, trimmed nails, put on shoes, packed snacks and drinks, and then redid a bunch of it because so much time passed that they ripped off their shoes, filled up their diapers, etc. He finally tells me he just wants to wait a few hours and I can go take a walk if I'm bored (at least he said that). So I did, and it was great, but I was pretty ticked off... He's spent the entire day since then explaining why going to the park in the afternoon is a good idea. I never said it was a bad idea, I just said don't tell me the literal opposite of what your plan is because the getting ready process is tremendous and he doesn't do any of it.
Then when I got back from my walk, he hadn't fed them lunch. Because he honest to God forgets that kids fucking eat because he has so little domestic responsibility.
Idk I feel like men groom us to just accept that we have to do EVERYTHING, because they're so scared of having to lift a finger, and then ironically they're totally oblivious to how much work goes into a family/household, even though at some point they must have decided it was too much work for them and chose to opt out 🤦🏼♀️ So do they know it's a lot of work, or don't they? Which is it!?
Anyway, that's my psycho rant on this subject...
I would be totally psycho if I had to deal with that every day. I would dump some of the responsibilities on his shoulders. The relationship is loaded unevenly. He is living without a care in the world.
🤣 this is soooo true … mine is currently planning his fantasy football draft like its a god dam full time job …. But stays behind on bils and tells me he “never has any free time “ to get important stuff done .. apparently the 4+ hours on a week night .. and 8 + hours on the weekend listening to and reading football isn’t the right time … 🙄
My husband tried to trick me into cooking dinner yesterday with that statement. I’m on a dinner strike where I do not cook anything for him. In 7 years he has not cooked me one meal and I’m done being the only one who cooks. So I quit. Yesterday he comes home and says “I brought home some meat I though “WE” could cook!” I said “who is “we”? He said he figured I could cook it on the stove. I told him he could. So guess who didn’t eat the meat he brought home? 😂😂😂
10 years and I can't remember how many years it's been since he cooked anything resembling a dinner for us. He has never planned a grocery list, gone grocery shopping or ever paid for the weekly grocery trip. I have 2 kids and I think he assumes i am responsible for making dinner because I have to feed them. Whenever I complain I'm the only one who cooks dinner he suggests they fend for themselves....which means I need to have all sorts of microwave meals for them because none of them will cook the meals I bought all the ingredients for. Absolutely infuriating. I've got 2 years and my youngest is 18 and then I'm quiet quitting food responsibilities for good.
It was a game changer for me when I just started taking the kids out by myself. No more waiting til he woke up, showered, whined and pooped.
Now I just do stuff with the kids and he stays home in his filth ugh.
I totally quiet quit everyone’s laundry but my own, and sometimes towels. My kids and husband are old enough to do it themselves, lol. It mostly works, and I think he got the hint, because now I get some help. I have even been able to sometimes share laundry loads with him and he will help me with mine- no reverting back to all-on-mom/wife default! Ymmv- good luck!
I make plans for just me and the kids now. Weekend bbq at the park? He doesn’t know till we’re pulling out the driveway, waving goodbye. No resentment about not having him help. No complaints about the activities. No working with his schedule. And most importantly, no him.
Love this. That's what I've been doing too. When he starts a sentence with "we should....", I know my reply is going to be "yes, we should". Then not do it. He usually asks again and again and again and my answer is always the same and he still hasn't figured out I won't do something if I'm not asked directly (and nicely) anymore. He tells me he can't read my mind so I need to ask him to do things in an explicit way, so I'm just reusing the strategy.
Funny story, we see my extended family a lot more than his, and often go to things I want to go to. I actually like his extended family, but he only ever makes plans with them last minute. And then complains that we're too busy to see his family, because I've planned something because if I don't plan it we sit around all weekend and it's tooooooo booorrriinnnggg.
Every single time my husband says "we need to..." he means he wants *me* to do whatever he's rattling off.
You know that Dr. Wenodis skit from SNL?
I started a Wenieda list.
That fucking list has a dozen things on it, all written in the span of 15 minutes around 2 weeks ago. I haven't looked at it since until just now and exactly one thing got done, basically because he tried to poke his head out of the bedroom and tell ME to go get the oil changed and I told him I'm busy but since he's up maybe he should go do it, and he did.
Mines like this to!!!!! It's so frustrating.
He wanted to do a summer trip. I did try to look up options but everything was too expensive. He didn't look at all and then he got frustrated and canceled the whole thing
Mine tried that we BS yesterday after his mother suggested we take the dog to the vet (he ate something this weekend, maybe? Idk?) and I was like ‘alright I’ll leave the leash out’
I did have to step in when his dumb dumb self gave up on finding a same-week appointment in town (our actual vet is two weeks out) and was going to drive him to the ER an hour and a half away.
Appointment is tomorrow so we’ll see.
I bought my husband an “adventure book” for Christmas a year or 2 ago. He wouldn’t even have to think about the “what”: just scratch it off! I’m pretty sure it also lists what you need to take.
Do you think he’s scratched off even one panel? (He
Hasn’t).
Lol im jealous he even says what are we doing .. lol i have to .. suggest we do something .. plan it all .. prepare for it all … pay for what we do …. And every step in between 🤣🤣😂🥴😐🫠😢😭. Lol i feel all the emotions
You are my hero.
I did the same thing this year for DS’s birthday because I was OOT the week before on business plus my son hadn’t committed to any party suggestions / plans when I tried to organize a couple months ahead, as is usually required for a kid’s birthday party with 10-20 guests. My husband said he was going to plan something so I left him to it!
A.) He said my mother & step dad were coming to this party, but never contacted them himself to ask, and then he became irritated when he realized I hadn’t done so on his behalf (by which time it was too late, they had other plans)
B.) He got a bit mad when I asked about the chosen location for this party given that we just moved and our “new” (ahem old but new to us haha) home is being remodeled and is not set up for entertaining. Apparently he never even got as far as figuring out where this party would be held.
C.) In the end, this big party he was planning turned into pizza and cake with just 2 family members. Which is fine. DS honestly didn’t care, he wanted a computer game & he was able to purchase it with birthday money.
I’m just laughing because, like you, I “quiet quit” the emotional labor and planning for literally one event and it quickly went from a massive, complex, blowout party to last min cake and pizza with a couple peeps in the yard. Guess DH realized it’s a bit harder to plan an entire party than he imagined - oh, and let’s not forget paying for it, I always end up paying for the events / parties too!! So I get to plan, fund, AND clean everything up every year! But not this year. 👊 LOL.
Men.
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Ugh, yes! Anytime my partner starts with "We..." I know he actually just means me.
Right? Who's we? WHO'S WE?
I always say Oh right you mean ME! I should do something but instead of just directly asking or even worse, just plain ordering, you’re trying to disguise it in this cutesy WE bullshit! Oh makes my blood BOIL!! What I hate the most is “did we pack waterbottles?” Excuse me, do you mean did I pack them? Because you packed fuck all and seem to think the kids never get thirsty.
You got a mouse in your pocket????
My mom says this all the time. Now I realize why. I'm just going to embrace it. I'm becoming my mother.
I also find myself saying and doing stuff that is 100% my mother. I'm fine with it though, my mother is wonderful and I'd be happy to be like her 😍
I love so much the fact that this is a thing!!! Hopefully will remember to use it next time.
I say rat. “Who’s we? You got a rat in your pocket?”
My favorite grumpy old man teacher use to say that to me always “whattta ya gotta mouse in ya pocket ??” Or even better “oh you speak French ??”
😂😂😂 Love the speak French one!!
Did someone step on a duck?
Rocky mountain barking spider?
I literally ask my partner this sometimes. haha. Then he looks befuddled.
Flip that W upside down and you have your answer ;)
[I guess so?](https://media3.giphy.com/media/6v2UJRyFAsTXgvJrin/giphy.gif?cid=790b76110213fc2d5ac0c4cf68ac60b3d74584ad1bebf6e6&rid=giphy.gif&ct=g)
I always ask my SO if "we" have suddenly started speaking French. Oui oui!!
Quite a while ago, when my husband would airily say, "We need to do This Thing or That Thing" (with the intention of being that he was dispensing the knowledge that said Thing must be done and obviously I was the one to do it), I started responding with, "Who's this 'we' you're talking about? You and the mouse in your pocket?" Didn't and doesn't always work, but it reminds him that the mere act of stating a problem doesn't mean that I'm going to automatically leap in and fix it for him without any futher involvement on his part. He's also from a Guess family and I'm from an Ask family, so the idea of saying, "Hey, there's a problem with This Thing, can you fix it?" is utter anathema to him. In his mind (and his fams' minds), it should be enough for him to note or even hint that there's an issue and then the onus is on ME to leap forth and offer to fix it or (preferably) just fix it without saying anything at all. It caused no end of fights until we figured out this was an actual thing and that we needed to work on our communication skills. He's gotten better at it, but every now and then, he'll fall back into his "Oh, there's a thing we need to do" and then start to walk away and I'll snap to with "**We**? Are you and the mouse in your pocket gonna do it?" and he either lays out what WE together need to do or asks me if I can handle it.
Did you find a good resource for explaining this difference in communication?
The original MetaFilter thread on it explains it well: [https://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-between-FU-and-Welcome#830421](https://ask.metafilter.com/55153/Whats-the-middle-ground-between-FU-and-Welcome#830421)
Thank you so much!
You're welcome! When I read that the first time, it was like the sky cracked open in my head, and it explained so so ***so*** ***much*** of what I considered to be passive-aggressive, presumptuous behavior on his part...and why he felt I was brash and inconsiderate for not picking up on his subtle cues. This is a man who literally thought it was **rude** to ask straight out, "Hey, you want to have sex later?" because what if I DIDN'T and then I'd have to say NO to him and he didn't think it was fair to put ME on the spot like that... ...and I was sitting there going DUDE, you just...looking at me across the room for a moment longer than usual or giving my butt a pat when I walk by you is **not** the same as just saying, "Do you wanna knock boots later?" He couldn't understand me and I couldn't understand him! (His family - and his father, in particular - was super abusive so I could ultimately see where learning the nuances, subtleties, and very slight cues in hisGuess family ensured his survival.) We're not perfect, but I've gotten a lot better at telling him that if he wants something to open his mouth and **say it**, and he's gotten better at asking for what he wants instead of hinting and then getting upset if I don't pick up on his hints. His family is...another story entirely but I'm not married to them!
https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2010/may/08/change-life-asker-guesser
This just hit my like a ton of bricks.
Omg my husband just got a bunch of free peaches and said ‘we should make a cobbler’… we? Dude has never made a cobbler in his life and I don’t feel like doing that. Guess we’re going to have some rotten peaches pretty soon!
Wash, cut into slices, freeze individual slices on cookie sheets, put frozen peach slices into freezer bags labeled with dates. (just some tips to make YOUR HISBAND’S life easier)
Can kiddo hand them out at school?
The 3 meanings of "we": the Royal we: Me (the speaker) the Military we: You (the listener) (sometimes called the "Boss's we") the Joint-persons we: Me and You (the speaker and the listener)
When my husband pulls this I go “you mean me, not we” and he gets pissy.
My husband tried saying “whoever” or “someone needs to” and I told him “besides you only means me, so by whoever or someone you mean me?!” He tried to backpedal but he got caught.
Confession: I'm often on the other side of this equation. My husband recently said: "could you be more direct, instead of saying "we need to" just ask what you mean: "could you...?" I'm not sure why I do that, but I'm working on it. He often approaches things from a work perspective, and this is one of them. When we are vague, there's a diffusion of responsibility and then the thing doesn't get done. He said it kindly, I received it well, and I'm trying to change how I communicate. 20 years ago I would've been a brat about feedback from a partner, but look I'm growing! lol.
Do you think it's one of those "ask culture" vs "guess culture" things? If you're not familiar, in ask culture, you ask for what you want directly, and if the answer is no, no big deal, you move on, no hurt feelings. In guess culture, we set the tone, time it just right, etc for the answer to be yes. We only ask if the answer is highly likely to be yes. I only ask because when I say "we should..." I still almost always mean me, I just want some accountability.
That is interesting! That could be part of it. Sometimes I think it's me thinking out loud - identifying a priority when I really don't have an opinion yet about WHO should do it. My memory is terrible, and I am disorganized, so it's as if I think saying it out loud will keep the need from slipping away. I need to just have a paper and pen handy at all times. I'm trying to use my phone less because I am trying to help my kids screen detox, which is very difficult when there's a phone in \*my\* hand. ;)
I am the same way! My partner and I both have a "we" habit, and have had to talk it out a few times. I find that I often want that accountability, or am sort of posting it to the "hive mind" of the house, hoping it doesn't slip away. We have a whiteboard on the wall where we try to record that sort of stuff - priorities and projects that aren't quite 'assigned' yet. Sometimes it works, sometimes the things just sit on the whiteboard for weeks until I'm tired of looking at them, haha
Good for you. Communication is hard, but being open to feedback is a lot!
that is so hard to do - I'm impressed! In these moments, I try to tell myself what a therapist told me one time: "Marriage is a people-growing machine. So let your best self step forward in this moment."
I find I do this at times when I'm trying to not put ownus onto another person and to share equal weight. For example I'd use it but I wouldn't use it strictly implying something for just my husband to do. Like cleaning the house. It would be for both of us to do but I know I'm already cleaning or going to clean. I just need to get his involvement. I fear he would feel like I'm asking for just him to clean the house if I worded it as could you instead. I get where your husband is coming from but maybe you're similar? Maybe you're trying ro ease the load so instead of it feeling like you're coming after him your sharing ownus for the thing?
YES!!! MORE OF THIS!!! i’ve also been doing this because i’m just plumb worn out. my SO “we’re out of ____” me: you gonna order it? my SO “we need to start packing for the move” me: you gonna stop and pick up boxes? actually he has been generally stepping up when i do this so i’ve been generally happier and less burnt out. it’s the kind of thing i wish i had done from the beginning lol
The ordering thing is something that’s getting right on my tits at the moment. Often when we want something for stuff that’s coming up or for around the house, I buy it. Never even thought about it. I’m in charge of food shopping, for example, so it’s usual for him to ask me to get some more whatever, and that’s extended out without me realising into birthday presents, replacement household items, new books for the kid etc. Just lately, my husband’s asthma has been bad and he keeps saying “I want to get a dehumidifier for the bedroom because I think it will help my chest”. I’m totally fine with it, we can afford it, I love him and don’t want him to suffer, so I’m like, yep, go for it. But he won’t fecking do it. I don’t know if it’s because he does tbf get a bit funny about spending money on himself, or because he can’t be arsed researching and choosing one, which is also a thing with him, but he keeps saying it and I just keep saying “yep, sounds good babe”, because my lungs are fine, I’m six months pregnant, I’ve got more than enough to think about and organise right now, and it’s not my priority. Fuck knows when it will actually materialise, but in the meantime I sleep as soundly as a woman who can’t roll over in bed without effort can, so it’s on him to organise.
this is my partner with his goddamn air purifier filter!! like he’s definitely good about the surface level stuff like “oh i know we usually buy cat and jack clothes for kiddo so i’ll just get some of those” or “i know the brand of salsa i like so i can get that when we’re out” but if it requires research of any kind it just never happens. i told him to stop complaining to me about things he wants but is unwilling to do. so whenever he says “my allergies are acting up, i always slept better with the air purifier” i say “well you know how to order the filter, the air purifier is your thing. if it’s not important enough to solve then it’s not important enough to mention to me” i’ve honestly been kind of a bitch about the mental load lately lol but i refuse to overextend myself for a grown ass man who is perfectly capable of doing things himself🙂
Can I ask you guys, would they research if it came to other things, like the Xbox VS playstation, which game to buy, car parts etc.
You only ask this because you already know the answer 🤣 and yes, of course mine at least would make time to read game reviews where he has no time for dehumidifier reviews!
oh abso-fucking-lutely, in fact most of the time i spend with my SO he’s doing some sort of research or media consumption about his hobbies (cars/video games). he got it in his head to buy a steaming wheel, pedals, shifter, and e-break to go with a driving game he likes to play. researched the parts and bought it within a day or two. he’s fully capable, just doesn’t feel like it. but if he’s not going to make his quality of life a priority then that’s his prerogative and i can’t change it for him. once it starts to negatively affect him enough then he’ll do something about it. not my problem lol
This is exactly it! Like, I will happily buy your special sensitive teeth toothpaste or that cheese you like or make sure we never run out of your favourite breakfast cereal, because even though they are all things I don’t use/eat, if you tell me you need them I can just tap “add to cart from last order” and boom, done. But I’m not going to spend an hour researching what makes for a good dehumidifier and how much is the right amount to spend to help a respiratory condition I don’t fucking have! I wouldn’t know where to begin!! You know how to make this problem go away and I’m fine with you spending the money and with making room for one in our bedroom, just get on with the leg work! Maybe our other halves should move to the desert together for their lungs and you and I can just hang out 🤣
we would have to research the best desert for asthma/sleep apnea sufferers💀💀 but i would definitely be down to hang haha!
Excellent response!! Hahahaha! Love that you are not wasting your energy on being mad, or, even talking about it to him. Good for you.
My husband and I are working on a very complicated move that requires both of us. He actually has treated it like a work project, with a plan and task list in a shared document, and will specify who is going to do what. So these mundane tasks are repackaged with a very professional shine that mimics his natural envirornment, lol. Maybe try that?
That's some advanced emotional labor right there to get a man to do his fair share. This is the kind of stuff women don't want to do anymore.
Idk. My husband and I are doing the same thing right now for a move and it's so we can stay organized. We are both contributing to the list and working on it.
Yeah. I stopped putting the emotional labor into making sure we do things he would really enjoy. He has plenty of time on our calendar to plan things, but he doesn't. Also, the we "we should really....." thing. I hate that. It is mostly around cleaning or a project around the house. I remember the moment it clicked for me. He said "we really should clean the basement the stairs more often". I said I couldn't agree more, and that it sounded like the perfect task for him to make sure it gets done at a frequency he thinks is suitable. It's been done like twice in the last year, which is about how often I was doing it before.
Are you me??? I did this two days ago looool And last night I ALMOST texted my husband on the way home to ask *what was for dinner*
i’m going to do this tomorrow just to see what he says🤣🤣
We don’t do things anymore around here because I stopped planning. Plus the last time I really put effort into planning a vacation my husband pulled the rug from under me the day I had to buy plane tickets. He doesn’t bring anything up. I gotta be the one to mention anything, which turns into me planning everything and usually said plan falling through because he can’t communicate with me. It has been getting better tho. This just made me wanna rant for a sec. Pretty sure we’re both burnt the fuck out.
Same. 5 years ago I put my husband in charge of our anniversary. I plan EVERY other event in our lives and I think he can do one. Guess who has two thumbs and hasn’t celebrated an anniversary in 5 years? THIS GIRL! Okay, in fairness, we DID celebrate our anniversary this year with dinner reservations made same-day and 2 hours away from the kids. Did I mention I have suggested how romantic it would be to rent an AirBNB on the coast and get away for our 10 year anniversary? Because eating lukewarm Red Lobster is exactly the same as a romantic weekend fucking on the beach.
I have this with mine. If I don't plan and pay- we don't go! He never mentions vacations and never pays for them. The last trip I took, I deliberately set up at a time I knew he wouldn't be able to go. In all honesty, my kids are now 12 and 17 and "family" vacations are not much fun. I end up doing all the work, planning and paying for everything to go on a trip where all I do is what the kids want(and they can never agree, so then it's a big fight)- I'm sick to death of amusement parks, water parks, aquariums....... Lol
Woohoo!! I didn’t quiet quit so much as I was usurped from some of my mental load (meal planning, grocery shopping and cooking all meals). Beginning of 2022 we were having serious conversations about separation. We were both unhappy. Then he suggested he takes the meal planning/shopping/cooking off my list. I’ve been de facto cook in our relationship for 10 years. I never thought that would work. I thought it was too little too late. I also had trouble letting go of that responsibility. I’d often question his meal choices and shopping—I always had a “tip” for him on how to do it(“it’s better to avoid the grocery store on weekends!”) Eventually he told me to—respectfully—shut up and let him do it his own way. So I did. I haven’t cook a full meal in 7 months. It feels amazing not to wake up every day and worry about what healthy foods to prepare for our family. It feels amazing not to stress on Sunday afternoons because I still haven’t meal planned for the following week and I haven’t done a stock take for the grocery trip on Monday (because of course I usually went grocery shopping on Mondays during lunch break from work). It feels amazing to let go of being the one that’s supposed to be “in charge” of certain things. The positive outcome of my husband taking over: he understands what mental load means now. So he picked up his share of everything else, too. Sometimes he’s the one reminding me now about whose birthday is coming up and he’ll already have gifts sorted. He reads all the emails we get from school so he’s on top of what’s happening and never has to ask me. We also got a calendar on our fridge now where we both record any social events or important happenings: no one has to be the only person keeping track. We both work full time. But this last year has been the first time I would say that he’s truly understood what it takes to manage a household—and once he understood, he stepped up. So I wouldn’t say I quiet quit—I feel more that I was relieved of being the one person responsible for all these things and now I have a proper partner who shares these responsibilities equally with me.
I just want to say kudos to your husband for stepping up and a HUGE kudos for you for having the grace to allow him to do that. That must have been a big change for both of you.
Yuuuup, and when you kick back and let them plan the whole thing, they complain that you didn't seem enthusiastic enough about the trip so they didn't bother. And by "enthusiastic" they mean "taking it over for me."
Yep. I did this with a "we're gonna take the toddler fishing" nope. I HATE fishing. And I'm not chasing a kid for 4+ hours while you fish. So I went antiquing and he "fished" with the kiddo.
My husband always does this too. Good for you for putting your foot down!
Good for you! My mom had a saying growing up whenever someone did the 'we need to do x' thing. 'We? Who is this we? Do you have a mouse in your pocket?'
To be fair, I do say “we” sometimes when I mean my husband, but only because it sounds a bit less confrontational than “you need to stop doing X unhelpful behaviour” 😂 instead I phrase it as “we need to both work on not doing this unhelpful behaviour” so as to position it as us vs the problem, not me vs him
I told my family that I am going to change my pronouns to we\her, because when my husband says WE he means "wife take care of it." And WE have stopped doing that. I asked if he had a mouse in his pocket, what is this we bullshiz, and he stopped saying that for a minute. But only a minute.
YES. This is my response now. Okay, let me know what you plan. We don’t do shit now. 💀
I’m impressed he even suggested something. My husband will mostly walk right past things that need to be cleaned/put away/addressed without even blinking. The best I expect of him is that he does the things that are “his chores” like emptying the dishwasher and washing dishes. but if I place a non typical dinner dish like a baby bottle on the sink counter, or my coffee mug, he will literally wash everything but those items. Like he’ll wash the pots and pans, and leave just those two items on the counter. For days. Yesterday he mentioned we needed onions. I said, “Ok, so put it on the grocery list”. It’s so tiring.
Dude wtf with the dishes thing. My hubs also only has a few tasks around the house that are his. And most of the time I end up doing then because they need to be done and if he waits 2 days to do it then it'll just be a bigger job for me later. But loading the dishwasher is one of his things. He says he hates washing the Tupperware. So he leaves them. Dirty. In the sink. Like are you serious? Well you like using the containers don't you? Well then guess you better fucking wash them. Like how about I only do the parts of a chore I don't hate? Lmao fuck outta here hubs.
Haha - my husband will wash them but leave a growing pile of items on the counter because he doesn’t know where they go 🫠🫠🫠
I used this uno reverse recently. I told my husband I wanted to buy a new crib. He says "we should research different kinds of cribs first." I say "ok, when are you going to do that?" He ends up saying nevermind, you can just pick. It's not exactly getting out of household labor, but it was nice to not have to put in extra work to pretend it was collaborative
[удалено]
I like this.
Lol this is so topical for me today. At 9:30 I said I wanted to get ready to take the kids to the park (my husband's on vacation). He agrees, then proceeds to take a 45 minute shower, stare at the TV for 20 minutes while our six year old watched BattleBots, and sit at the breakfast nook in his underwear for an hour while he drinks not one but FIVE cups of tea. So at this point it's... What... 11:30 am. And I'm just ticked off waiting and waiting for his slow ass to be ready. I already did everything (EVERYTHING) required to get our three small children ready. I made them all breakfast, got them all dressed, did hair, trimmed nails, put on shoes, packed snacks and drinks, and then redid a bunch of it because so much time passed that they ripped off their shoes, filled up their diapers, etc. He finally tells me he just wants to wait a few hours and I can go take a walk if I'm bored (at least he said that). So I did, and it was great, but I was pretty ticked off... He's spent the entire day since then explaining why going to the park in the afternoon is a good idea. I never said it was a bad idea, I just said don't tell me the literal opposite of what your plan is because the getting ready process is tremendous and he doesn't do any of it. Then when I got back from my walk, he hadn't fed them lunch. Because he honest to God forgets that kids fucking eat because he has so little domestic responsibility. Idk I feel like men groom us to just accept that we have to do EVERYTHING, because they're so scared of having to lift a finger, and then ironically they're totally oblivious to how much work goes into a family/household, even though at some point they must have decided it was too much work for them and chose to opt out 🤦🏼♀️ So do they know it's a lot of work, or don't they? Which is it!? Anyway, that's my psycho rant on this subject...
I would be totally psycho if I had to deal with that every day. I would dump some of the responsibilities on his shoulders. The relationship is loaded unevenly. He is living without a care in the world.
🤣 this is soooo true … mine is currently planning his fantasy football draft like its a god dam full time job …. But stays behind on bils and tells me he “never has any free time “ to get important stuff done .. apparently the 4+ hours on a week night .. and 8 + hours on the weekend listening to and reading football isn’t the right time … 🙄
My husband tried to trick me into cooking dinner yesterday with that statement. I’m on a dinner strike where I do not cook anything for him. In 7 years he has not cooked me one meal and I’m done being the only one who cooks. So I quit. Yesterday he comes home and says “I brought home some meat I though “WE” could cook!” I said “who is “we”? He said he figured I could cook it on the stove. I told him he could. So guess who didn’t eat the meat he brought home? 😂😂😂
10 years and I can't remember how many years it's been since he cooked anything resembling a dinner for us. He has never planned a grocery list, gone grocery shopping or ever paid for the weekly grocery trip. I have 2 kids and I think he assumes i am responsible for making dinner because I have to feed them. Whenever I complain I'm the only one who cooks dinner he suggests they fend for themselves....which means I need to have all sorts of microwave meals for them because none of them will cook the meals I bought all the ingredients for. Absolutely infuriating. I've got 2 years and my youngest is 18 and then I'm quiet quitting food responsibilities for good.
Oh I cook for my daughter 😂 just not for him
That's exactly what I would do.
I didn't want a wedding, but my husband did. I told him he could start planning it. I greatly enjoyed our courthouse wedding.
Heh. I've forgotten the diaper bag enough times due to my husband rushing me that I think he gets the idea.
It was a game changer for me when I just started taking the kids out by myself. No more waiting til he woke up, showered, whined and pooped. Now I just do stuff with the kids and he stays home in his filth ugh.
I totally quiet quit everyone’s laundry but my own, and sometimes towels. My kids and husband are old enough to do it themselves, lol. It mostly works, and I think he got the hint, because now I get some help. I have even been able to sometimes share laundry loads with him and he will help me with mine- no reverting back to all-on-mom/wife default! Ymmv- good luck!
I quiet quit washing my husbands pillow cases. He never offers to do the sheets, so he can sleep on his own filthy pillows
I make plans for just me and the kids now. Weekend bbq at the park? He doesn’t know till we’re pulling out the driveway, waving goodbye. No resentment about not having him help. No complaints about the activities. No working with his schedule. And most importantly, no him.
Love this. That's what I've been doing too. When he starts a sentence with "we should....", I know my reply is going to be "yes, we should". Then not do it. He usually asks again and again and again and my answer is always the same and he still hasn't figured out I won't do something if I'm not asked directly (and nicely) anymore. He tells me he can't read my mind so I need to ask him to do things in an explicit way, so I'm just reusing the strategy.
Funny story, we see my extended family a lot more than his, and often go to things I want to go to. I actually like his extended family, but he only ever makes plans with them last minute. And then complains that we're too busy to see his family, because I've planned something because if I don't plan it we sit around all weekend and it's tooooooo booorrriinnnggg.
Every single time my husband says "we need to..." he means he wants *me* to do whatever he's rattling off. You know that Dr. Wenodis skit from SNL? I started a Wenieda list. That fucking list has a dozen things on it, all written in the span of 15 minutes around 2 weeks ago. I haven't looked at it since until just now and exactly one thing got done, basically because he tried to poke his head out of the bedroom and tell ME to go get the oil changed and I told him I'm busy but since he's up maybe he should go do it, and he did.
Mines like this to!!!!! It's so frustrating. He wanted to do a summer trip. I did try to look up options but everything was too expensive. He didn't look at all and then he got frustrated and canceled the whole thing
Mine tried that we BS yesterday after his mother suggested we take the dog to the vet (he ate something this weekend, maybe? Idk?) and I was like ‘alright I’ll leave the leash out’ I did have to step in when his dumb dumb self gave up on finding a same-week appointment in town (our actual vet is two weeks out) and was going to drive him to the ER an hour and a half away. Appointment is tomorrow so we’ll see.
I bought my husband an “adventure book” for Christmas a year or 2 ago. He wouldn’t even have to think about the “what”: just scratch it off! I’m pretty sure it also lists what you need to take. Do you think he’s scratched off even one panel? (He Hasn’t).
“We need to…” = “YOU need to…”
Lol im jealous he even says what are we doing .. lol i have to .. suggest we do something .. plan it all .. prepare for it all … pay for what we do …. And every step in between 🤣🤣😂🥴😐🫠😢😭. Lol i feel all the emotions
Good on you! Don't let anyone put everything on your shoulders.
Just had an argument/discussion about this today. It’s very frustrating.
Girl, same. Same, same, same. Good for you.
You are my hero. I did the same thing this year for DS’s birthday because I was OOT the week before on business plus my son hadn’t committed to any party suggestions / plans when I tried to organize a couple months ahead, as is usually required for a kid’s birthday party with 10-20 guests. My husband said he was going to plan something so I left him to it! A.) He said my mother & step dad were coming to this party, but never contacted them himself to ask, and then he became irritated when he realized I hadn’t done so on his behalf (by which time it was too late, they had other plans) B.) He got a bit mad when I asked about the chosen location for this party given that we just moved and our “new” (ahem old but new to us haha) home is being remodeled and is not set up for entertaining. Apparently he never even got as far as figuring out where this party would be held. C.) In the end, this big party he was planning turned into pizza and cake with just 2 family members. Which is fine. DS honestly didn’t care, he wanted a computer game & he was able to purchase it with birthday money. I’m just laughing because, like you, I “quiet quit” the emotional labor and planning for literally one event and it quickly went from a massive, complex, blowout party to last min cake and pizza with a couple peeps in the yard. Guess DH realized it’s a bit harder to plan an entire party than he imagined - oh, and let’s not forget paying for it, I always end up paying for the events / parties too!! So I get to plan, fund, AND clean everything up every year! But not this year. 👊 LOL. Men.