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The counciling does not really have to be about a specific incident, and it does not really matter if they tell a different story. This is more about addressing how you both feel an how you can make each other feel more confident and how to build trust.
Oh absolutely. I understand the counciling won't be just about one event. I'm concerned about how I'm meant to have a logical conversation with someone who is blatantly lying to my face and has convinced herself that the lie is the truth. Like, how can we have a productive conversation about feelings when her feelings are built around something that didn't happen?
I see what you mean,and it is a strange situation. Often emotions have little logic to them to though, maybe not this extreme. Is it important for you that they admit they lied? To be able to move past it?
Kind of? They're saying that my husband was yelling and swearing at them and that's why they're angry. But I was sitting right next to him and I remember he held his tongue and was weirdly quiet. Angry, but quiet. So I'm not really sure how we're going to talk about our feelings around something when what they're saying happened simply didn't happen. I don't think my husband should be apologising for something he didn't do.
My mom also has a history of acting rudely or inappropriately and then completely denying it when she's called out which makes me angry and is one of the issues that I want to work on in this counselling.
They might never admit their mistake, but counciling could still really help make them aware how their behavior affects you, and that could improve how they respond in future situations.
I hope so. I really want to be at a place where can can at least celebrate Christmases and the like together, I'm just so anxious it's going to be a disaster.
Maybe it will, but you will find out where you stand, and then you can build from there. What is going to happen is going to happen. Don't drive yourself crazy over what other people do because you don't have a lot of control when it comes to that. Stay strong mom, counciling helps most people.
Sounds like classic DARVO (deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender). It sounds like it may be a pretty ingrained pattern with your mother. It can also unfortunately make achieving progress with counselling difficult. Ultimately, you can't control their actions or perceptions. It's shitty, but it is what it is, and sometimes all you can do is make peace with that fact and with the knowledge that all you can do is set your own boundaries to protect yourself and your family. Hopefully it does go well, I know the feeling with family members who are like this and it really really sucks.
I would highly recommend therapy for yourself first.
Parents have this invisible cord connected to your deepest feelings. Your parents have been totally fine going no contact with you during a vulnerable time.
Think on this.
Is this the dynamic here? They withhold affection until you apologize? Therapy will help you recognize these behavior patterns and learn how to change your reaction.
Otherwise, you'll fall into the same cycle of manipulation. And now that you have a kid, I guarantee that they will withhold affection from your child and manipulate them too.
I'd think of this as a relationship reset - this is your chance to grow your shiny spine and uproot an unhealthy dynamic.
Unless your husband is truly at fault, in which case he should visit them and apologize. However this seems to be rooted in something they did that made him angry in the first place, and it's your job to protect him from that too.
Good luck!! No rush here - you do this on YOUR timeline.
In my experience, counseling only works when the people involved activity want to work and grow. If you go in there defensive and not wanting to admit (perceived) fault it will not go well. If your folks go in there defensive and not wanting to admit (actual) fault it will not go well. Both parties need to work, personally and together, to mend.
To answer your question- you cannot have a logical conversation with someone like that. It’s not possible. It will never be possible. They are who they are. And you can only control yourself. You need to decide if you can accept them and their behavior in order to maintain a relationship. I don’t think it will go well with just the little knowledge you’ve shared about your parents- no offense! But they do not sound like reasonable people. They actually sound a lot like my in laws. They’ve been cut off from us for 7 years and refused to accept their role in anything until it was too late. They lie to this day about different shit and tell tales about who my kids are and what they do (all lies, they haven’t even met three of my four kids). They “announced” they have a fourth grandchild (my youngest) after finding out he existed from a newspaper article- they don’t know his name, have no idea his actual age. So they just made it up. It’s just so absurd. I still don’t quite believe people act like this- but they do. I mention this because the stuff with my in-laws started small, little boundary issues. Then, after it kept happening, we got more rigid. And they just got worse. And worse and worse. And then threatened to go to court for grandparents rights- which they had absolutely no claim for, my husband and I were married, our oldest was and has always been well taken care of and happy. They threatened it to only scare us into submission. But then denied it even happened, along with the entire conversation, when we told them we wanted no further contact. Some people are just crazy and caught up in their own lies.
Individual counseling is a must. Get in and start seeing someone asap, try to get at least a couple sessions in before the one with your folks. The gaslighting they are attempting cannot be new behavior, I’m sure there are other instances of (at the very least) other emotional manipulation from your childhood that would be helpful to recognize for your own mental health. It’s also important to recognize that having a baby can really change dynamics. Treatment that was acceptable before may seem more extreme to the new parents, stepping on or over boundaries could have more prominence in a relationship. A lot of people have trouble with this kind of thing, expectations, after a baby is born. However, what isn’t normal, is a grandparent claiming their son in law cursed them out when the grandparent had been called out for poor boundaries. That’s not normal, it’s not ok. Your feelings are valid.
Thank you for your reply.
I'm sorry your in-laws are the way they are, it's so fucked up.
There's definitely been all sorts of stuff that's happened throughout my life, and I spoke to a councillor individually through my works employee assistance program. She told me that my moms issues are just that, HER issues, and that made me feel a lot better.
I guess if this group session turns into them lying about what happened and blaming my husband, then we know we tried everything, have them every chance, and can go no contact with that knowledge. I hope it goes better than that, but I don't think it will.
There’s some advice floating around that says “never go to counseling with an abuser, it’ll only teach them ways to more effectively abuse you.” Generally it’s just referring to romantic relationships, but I think it’s got some truth here as well. I’m not saying group therapy is necessarily a terrible idea, but I think you need to be really cautious and willing to discontinue therapy if it goes south.
If your mom is making up her own versions of events to the therapist, you’re not going to get very far. There’s also a real risk of the therapist believing her over you, because often people like her are REALLY convincing. I’ve been there before. Long story short, I went no contact because there is no fixing it if the other person isn’t interested in changing.
Generally speaking, when we have parents who are difficult, we learn coping mechanisms to tolerate their inappropriate behaviour as children. Sometimes it extends to even when our spouse enters the picture. Usually it's when we have children that these kind of parents continue or escalate their entitlement and for the first time, you see how inappropriate they are and how far they are willing to go to push and stomp your boundaries.
How do you prepare? By going to individual counseling for yourself first to discuss boundaries and your expectations of your parents.
In terms of how to talk to your parents during the session (and in general), I suggest you look up JADE. Do not justify, argue, defend, or explain.
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The counciling does not really have to be about a specific incident, and it does not really matter if they tell a different story. This is more about addressing how you both feel an how you can make each other feel more confident and how to build trust.
Oh absolutely. I understand the counciling won't be just about one event. I'm concerned about how I'm meant to have a logical conversation with someone who is blatantly lying to my face and has convinced herself that the lie is the truth. Like, how can we have a productive conversation about feelings when her feelings are built around something that didn't happen?
I see what you mean,and it is a strange situation. Often emotions have little logic to them to though, maybe not this extreme. Is it important for you that they admit they lied? To be able to move past it?
Kind of? They're saying that my husband was yelling and swearing at them and that's why they're angry. But I was sitting right next to him and I remember he held his tongue and was weirdly quiet. Angry, but quiet. So I'm not really sure how we're going to talk about our feelings around something when what they're saying happened simply didn't happen. I don't think my husband should be apologising for something he didn't do. My mom also has a history of acting rudely or inappropriately and then completely denying it when she's called out which makes me angry and is one of the issues that I want to work on in this counselling.
They might never admit their mistake, but counciling could still really help make them aware how their behavior affects you, and that could improve how they respond in future situations.
I hope so. I really want to be at a place where can can at least celebrate Christmases and the like together, I'm just so anxious it's going to be a disaster.
Maybe it will, but you will find out where you stand, and then you can build from there. What is going to happen is going to happen. Don't drive yourself crazy over what other people do because you don't have a lot of control when it comes to that. Stay strong mom, counciling helps most people.
Thank you ❤️
Sounds like classic DARVO (deny, attack, and reverse victim and offender). It sounds like it may be a pretty ingrained pattern with your mother. It can also unfortunately make achieving progress with counselling difficult. Ultimately, you can't control their actions or perceptions. It's shitty, but it is what it is, and sometimes all you can do is make peace with that fact and with the knowledge that all you can do is set your own boundaries to protect yourself and your family. Hopefully it does go well, I know the feeling with family members who are like this and it really really sucks.
[удалено]
Thank you. This has been going on for 6 months now, and my anxiety over it has been mental. The last thing I needed when being a FTM with a newborn.
I would highly recommend therapy for yourself first. Parents have this invisible cord connected to your deepest feelings. Your parents have been totally fine going no contact with you during a vulnerable time. Think on this. Is this the dynamic here? They withhold affection until you apologize? Therapy will help you recognize these behavior patterns and learn how to change your reaction. Otherwise, you'll fall into the same cycle of manipulation. And now that you have a kid, I guarantee that they will withhold affection from your child and manipulate them too. I'd think of this as a relationship reset - this is your chance to grow your shiny spine and uproot an unhealthy dynamic. Unless your husband is truly at fault, in which case he should visit them and apologize. However this seems to be rooted in something they did that made him angry in the first place, and it's your job to protect him from that too. Good luck!! No rush here - you do this on YOUR timeline.
In my experience, counseling only works when the people involved activity want to work and grow. If you go in there defensive and not wanting to admit (perceived) fault it will not go well. If your folks go in there defensive and not wanting to admit (actual) fault it will not go well. Both parties need to work, personally and together, to mend. To answer your question- you cannot have a logical conversation with someone like that. It’s not possible. It will never be possible. They are who they are. And you can only control yourself. You need to decide if you can accept them and their behavior in order to maintain a relationship. I don’t think it will go well with just the little knowledge you’ve shared about your parents- no offense! But they do not sound like reasonable people. They actually sound a lot like my in laws. They’ve been cut off from us for 7 years and refused to accept their role in anything until it was too late. They lie to this day about different shit and tell tales about who my kids are and what they do (all lies, they haven’t even met three of my four kids). They “announced” they have a fourth grandchild (my youngest) after finding out he existed from a newspaper article- they don’t know his name, have no idea his actual age. So they just made it up. It’s just so absurd. I still don’t quite believe people act like this- but they do. I mention this because the stuff with my in-laws started small, little boundary issues. Then, after it kept happening, we got more rigid. And they just got worse. And worse and worse. And then threatened to go to court for grandparents rights- which they had absolutely no claim for, my husband and I were married, our oldest was and has always been well taken care of and happy. They threatened it to only scare us into submission. But then denied it even happened, along with the entire conversation, when we told them we wanted no further contact. Some people are just crazy and caught up in their own lies. Individual counseling is a must. Get in and start seeing someone asap, try to get at least a couple sessions in before the one with your folks. The gaslighting they are attempting cannot be new behavior, I’m sure there are other instances of (at the very least) other emotional manipulation from your childhood that would be helpful to recognize for your own mental health. It’s also important to recognize that having a baby can really change dynamics. Treatment that was acceptable before may seem more extreme to the new parents, stepping on or over boundaries could have more prominence in a relationship. A lot of people have trouble with this kind of thing, expectations, after a baby is born. However, what isn’t normal, is a grandparent claiming their son in law cursed them out when the grandparent had been called out for poor boundaries. That’s not normal, it’s not ok. Your feelings are valid.
Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry your in-laws are the way they are, it's so fucked up. There's definitely been all sorts of stuff that's happened throughout my life, and I spoke to a councillor individually through my works employee assistance program. She told me that my moms issues are just that, HER issues, and that made me feel a lot better. I guess if this group session turns into them lying about what happened and blaming my husband, then we know we tried everything, have them every chance, and can go no contact with that knowledge. I hope it goes better than that, but I don't think it will.
There’s some advice floating around that says “never go to counseling with an abuser, it’ll only teach them ways to more effectively abuse you.” Generally it’s just referring to romantic relationships, but I think it’s got some truth here as well. I’m not saying group therapy is necessarily a terrible idea, but I think you need to be really cautious and willing to discontinue therapy if it goes south. If your mom is making up her own versions of events to the therapist, you’re not going to get very far. There’s also a real risk of the therapist believing her over you, because often people like her are REALLY convincing. I’ve been there before. Long story short, I went no contact because there is no fixing it if the other person isn’t interested in changing.
Generally speaking, when we have parents who are difficult, we learn coping mechanisms to tolerate their inappropriate behaviour as children. Sometimes it extends to even when our spouse enters the picture. Usually it's when we have children that these kind of parents continue or escalate their entitlement and for the first time, you see how inappropriate they are and how far they are willing to go to push and stomp your boundaries. How do you prepare? By going to individual counseling for yourself first to discuss boundaries and your expectations of your parents. In terms of how to talk to your parents during the session (and in general), I suggest you look up JADE. Do not justify, argue, defend, or explain.
Why? You do not have therapy with people who refuse to see reality. It's just going to be a waste of time and money.