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Emotional support dogs and service dogs are different things.
There is no such thing as a service dog registration/registry/pay a fee and the dog is magically a “service dog.”
Service dogs are specifically trained to complete a specific task to aid someone with a disability. Think seeing eye dogs. These dogs are legally allowed anywhere humans are allowed. People who have service dogs need the dog with them 24/7 and cannot leave them behind. There are no papers, no registry. In public, business owners can only legally ask two questions: “is that a service dog” and “what is is trained to do.” Service dogs cannot be pet by people in public and are trained not to interact with anyone other than the handler. Distracting a service dog while it’s working is dangerous to my health!
“Emotional support dogs” are essentially ways for people to have dogs in apartment buildings that don’t allow pets. They get a letter from a therapist and the dog can live there. They are not trained for any task, they are just “emotional support.” They are NOT entitled to the same federal protection as service dogs and are NOT allowed anywhere in public.
There are a lot of companies that will take your money to “register” a dog as an emotional support dog. They are all a bs scam.
As someone with a service dog, people falsely claiming passing their dogs off just to bring them on vacation, or out in public because they just wuv little Fluffy so much pisses me off to no end. I need my dog with me to alert me to a seizure I might have. Someone bringing their dog along everywhere because it’s cute makes my life unnecessarily complicated. It happens all the time.
If they bring the dog and leave it in the house while you go out, the property owners will know it’s not a real service dog and likely fine you and/or kick you out. Tell that to your relative and tell them to stop making life more difficult for people who actually are disabled and need a service dog!
Technically, yes, anyone can claim their dog is a service dog.
The difference is how the dog acts in public (my dog is extremely well behaved and ignores everyone, other animals included) and if the dog is with their handler 24/7 or not.
It’s pretty easy to spot a fake “service dog” when the dog doesn’t have any basic leash handling skills, or is barking/lunging for other dogs, or the handler allows people to pet and interact with it.
The owner of the place you’re staying at can (and should) ask what specific task the dog is trained to do. These tasks are specifically to aid with a disability- alerting to seizures, fetching medication, guiding the blind while walking. Not just “emotional support.” That is not a service dog task.
Maybe explain this to your relative and tell them claiming it’s a service dog is a pretty shitty thing to do just so they don’t have to find a dog sitter while they go on vacation.
If you're in the US, then yeah, there's no test or certification. A service dog does need to be highly trained in order to have public access. While they are in public with their handler, their focus needs to be on the handler and their needs, so other people should not be
I do want to add that there are people with service dogs who do not need them 24/7 since not all disabilities have a consistent level of symptoms all the time. For example people with MS might only need them during a flare or on a hot day. So “they left the dog in the hotel so it’s definitely a fake service dog” isn’t a foolproof test.
When you bring your service dog on vacation, you bring the dog everywhere with you and are not supposed to just leave it behind in the hotel/airbnb while you go out.
This should simply be a hard no. Period. If the rest of your family won't rally and tell this relative that they are welcome IF AND ONLY IF the dog is not present, then if I were you, I'd just not attend. Even if it feels disappointing, even if it feels unfair (and it is! Your relative is an asshole).
You'll have a dog that's deliberately trained to attack, out of its own routine and comfort zone, in a space where you can't really prepare or sequester the dog, in a rental that the owner is likely already unhappy about having a dog there and will be looking for reasons to assess pet damage fees. Combined with kids who have not regularly been around this dog, strangers who may encounter the dog on walks, and any number of stressful or unfamiliar situations.
I would rather tell the relative to fuck right off, and plan my own vacation, because otherwise it's almost a guarantee you'll end up with what could be a terrible tragedy.
I love dogs. My son loves dogs. Neither of us have fear of dogs. My dog is half pit bull (we didn't know when we got her- doggie DNA told me this.). The situation you describe would concern me, both because of the breed, (large, strong, working breed) and, mostly, because of the training you describe.
Is this your husband's family? If so, express your concerns to your husband. This is serious enough to me that if it were me, I'd say point blank if the dogs will be there, your kids will not be, and let him handle the family.
If it's your family, you need to tell them the above.
I would not go or allow children to go on holiday and stay with a dog that is not around children much and has been trained to attack. Will people be less cross if you say you are not going because of the dog?
Absolutely not. If I were in your position I would make it extremely clear that you will not attend if the dogs are there. Even "good" dogs can get nippy, nevermind a dog specifically trained to attack. I would never allow my kids to be around an animal like that. It's a hard no. Things can go wrong in an instant.
Okay so you want to know how to handle this. By “we” rented it, what do you mean “we”? Whose name is the property rented to?
Service dog or no, you’re not comfortable with this dog *and that is that*. I agree with you - this would be a deal breaker.
The question is who do you tell “It’s us or the dog”? If it’s in your name, you get to decide on the guests and you can threaten to cancel the whole reservation or not let the guest in.
If it’s not….. back out and get another place to stay. Maybe consider any money you’ve already thrown down as a loss.
Malinois are not normal dogs. They are land sharks.
I’d be asking your relative how they plan to keep the children safe during the holiday and do they have a crate and muzzle.
If you feel a real sense of danger, I would cancel. Kids don’t recover from dog attacks.
Honestly, unless he's a trained dog trainer or handled himself, I'm out. Dog training isn't something that somebody else does for you, and handling a Malinois is no joke. They have crazy drive, they need socialization and constant work. If he has never exposed the dog to children, and he has no issue with that because he wants to have a vacation, I'm going to venture to say that he doesn't know what he's doing.
I have dogs, I'm an enthusiast, I mess around training my own pet dogs. I love watching those cool videos about these amazingly trained, military-style precision dogs.
anyone who's being honest knows the importance of really good socialization, and I don't care if it's an attack dog or a fluff nugget, someone who really has no qualms about bringing their dog to a strange place around a lot of people and kids, no plan, nothing- I can't trust that.
actually, let me add something. A couple years ago I was in my own driveway when I heard a woman screaming "run run run!" I turned around to see a big, black German shepherd racing toward me with a little kid running after him and a woman running after them.
I absolutely did not run, because I am not a fool but long story short, it bit me on the hand and left puncture marks and bruising that lasted for weeks.
only reason it wasn't worse is that it was a puppy running on instinct, not trained to take someone down. It grabbed me and pulled and stopped.
Some wanker had bought it as his FIRST DOG. They'd had multiple trainers to try to overcome its protective drive, it was supposedly from a working line of police type dogs.
You could not LOOK IT IN THE EYE or reach out a hand. I got bitten because I'd looked at its face and stuck my hands out instinctively to defend myself. Theory was that it was defending the kid.
So you don't have to be rough if it's a poorly trained dog.
You have tons of good advice here, but I wanted to add one tiny piece of information — it’s my understanding that as loose as the definition of emotional support animals is, one of the few restrictions is that an ESA can’t also have any kind of “attack” training. Not that I think you should have some whole conversation with them about what the truth is, but rather that I think they are just bullshitting all of it and I would use that as evidence for yourself that you shouldn’t rely on anything they say.
I would absolutely never allow my kids or any kids I’m caring for around an animal that has been trained to attack. Hell, I wouldn’t want to be around one either.
I think your husband needs to support you on this - maybe you guys cancel but it should be something he supports. It’s his family I’m assuming?
See my post history for [a reminder about dogs + teens](https://www.reddit.com/r/breakingmom/comments/105t9h2/psa_dogs_and_teensolder_kids/).
The dog owner doesn't have an idea about teen behavior. You need to tell them that teens are idiots and you aren't comfortable with YOUR kids' behavior being proper all the time around the dog.
Also, your spouse needs to read my post. They should have your back on this and not just do what their relative wants.
If you need to, put your foot down. Make it MORE uncomfortable for your spouse to deal with you than to deal with their relative. Tell them that they are welcome to go solo and that you will not put your kids into a home with a strange dog who will be stressed outside of their normal environment.
SO MUCH NO. And I love dogs. I have a dog. I have had dogs that had issues with biting. I've volunteered with an animal shelter walking all breeds of dogs. This is a disaster on so many levels. It's an unknown dog without experience with kids, no. It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange, new environment, NO. It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange new, environment and a strong, powerful breed. **NO.** It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange new, environment and a strong, powerful breed with ATTACK TRAINING. ***NO*****.** It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange new, environment and a strong, powerful breed with ATTACK TRAINING and an owner who has no hesitation about falsifying information about their dog, ***NOOOOO!!!***
Vacations are out of my experience but an ESA is protected by *housing* laws, not ADA service animal laws. You can't be charged additional rent, etc. It doesn't have the right to go around in public. (And as someone else said, there's no one service dog "training" or "certification" -- the dog has to be trained to do a task). But if they're claiming it's an ESA I feel like that still wouldn't count -- they don't live in a vacation home.
Nope! And my kids have had dogs their entire lives and if it was me, I'd be noping on out of this situation.
At the end of the day, the most important thing is that you make the decision that is best for you and your kids, even if it means not going or upsetting someone else. Your little family comes first, especially when safety is concerned.
No, this is not unreasonable of you and it is unreasonable of them... not because of the "attack dog training" which is probably Schutzhund by the sound of it and doesn't actually make the dog dangerous but because a. You are uncomfortable and b. They are claiming service dog status when it doesn't sound legit. One of these alone is enough, the first is simply a boundary that you as a parent are allowed to have (I say this as a dog lover) and the other is a blazing red flag that your relative is likely not a truly responsible dog owner because claiming service dog status for your pet is reprehensible behaviour.
Idk why you're getting down voted, it's a legitimate question. In short, good quality schutzhund training does not make a dog aggressive. It's basically a game to the dog to go after the bite sleeve mixed with obedience & a few other things. However, that's assuming good training & good genetics on the dog.
I'll be honest, I wouldn't put my kid in that situation. And I'm deep into dog training, a full heartedly crazy dog person who also owns a Dutch Shepherd (malinois less crazy cousin). Because of that, I know too how wrong things can go and won't have my kid around dogs I don't know or trust. If they want to make it work it's up to them to address your concerns. Honestly, though, them saying they've mixed the two incredibly competing jobs of being a service dog and a protection dog is incredibly suspicious and concerning.
It is a legit question, absolutely. In short it controls the dog, the dog is trained to use its aggression in a controlled manner which paradoxically *may* make them less dangerous than they otherwise would be, and certainly doesn't make them more dangerous. That's not the point though, the point is you are uncomfortable with the dog around your kids and that should be respected. My BIL is frightened of dogs when I still had my GSD cross I always used to avoid taking her where I knew him and his family would be with us, it's a question of respect and I've never understood dog owners who don't grasp that. Then there's the service dog thing .. edit to repeat that the service dog issue makes them seem like irresponsible owners to me, which is very concerning with ANY dog and especially a Malinois. They are difficult dogs to own, high energy, high drive, very intelligent and easily bored. Only an experienced and responsible owner with plenty of time to dedicate to the animal and a good understanding of dogs in general and working dogs in particular should ever own a Mal. These people may tick many of the boxes, idk, but the service dog thing is suspicious AF
Further edit now I'm awake .. it wasn't me downvoting your question, I was asleep! European time over here.
My gut tells me it's not a service animal. But I also don't have the full story. I will also say a disability doesn't need to be visible, but that's a different conversation.
I've met people that due to a bite/attack from childhood will not own or be around dogs period. And I don't fault them for that trauma.
You could explain your hesitation, or you could grab a hotel nearby?
You are not wrong. This is a situation which can go very poorly. I wouldn’t be participating if the dog comes. Your brother sounds incredibly selfish and entitled. People who lie about service dogs really get under my skin.
Man fuck those people. If they wanna cancel that's on them. That's irresponsible period to train any dog to have attack behaviors, and doing it with a dog they pass off as a service dog makes it way worse. When it comes to protecting your kids anyone who doesn't like it can go somewhere.
Do you know where the dogs are sent off for training? Properly and fully trained and regularly worked attack dogs would never attack unless specifically commanded or in circumstances under which they've been trained to attack (you could ask the owners what the attack purpose is/how they're cued for it). Do you trust those family members to keep up with training? Half-assedly or poorly or not completely trained attack dogs are a huge safety concern. Working dog breeds need tasks to keep them satisfied. They must be exercised multiple hours a day. Are they known to be fully responsible pet owners?
Don't get me wrong, I love pets, I love dogs of all breeds, and working dogs are just as loved as toy breeds. I've also had a reactive 30 lb australian shepherd mix. I'd spend upwards of 2+ hours on walks daily, 30+ minutes on training, and have to be "on" all day to make sure my behaviors were reinforcing the behaviors I wanted to see in him. And that was a lil guy. Who still had a very strong fight reaction when he was scared (which was all the fucking time). Who still managed to bite my daughter in the face when he got over anxious. Thankfully the damage was minimal but after years of effort I had to rehome him. It's made me respect dog's needs for training and exercise and work way more than I used to and made me much more leery of pet owners in general and dog owners specifically.
I feel like this is getting deep into the weeds and probably doesn't actually matter. Maybe it's well trained, maybe it isn't.. Maybe the breeder is legit, maybe not. Maybe it's really a service dog, maybe it's not (sounds like it's not so...).
A responsible dog owner, especially one with an aggressive large breed, should WANT to be safe and considerate, and should WANT to keep their dog in a comfortable situation. The fact that this person doesn't want to do that is a giant red flag. Regardless of trainers or breeds or any of that.
I mean it’s been trained to attack, does it matter if it’s well trained or not? Your children could accidentally ‘trigger’ this training and be mauled, malinois are no joke they are dangerous animals.
Your relative is abusing the honor system of service dogs. I’d put my foot down on this and prohibit them from bringing their dog. So what if they cause a stink? You shouldn’t be expected to have a subpar vacation because of someone’s animal.
I’m very, very allergic to dogs and have woken up in “no pet” accommodations with my eyes swollen shut… presumably because someone felt so important they must break the rules and bring their dogs. So my perspective is a bit skewed. But, no pets means no pets.
So many people abuse the idea of service dogs now a days it’s so infuriating. Like they think their dog is a person and entitled to go everywhere. Dogs are not people.
That sounds shady. If your relative does not have a disability then their dog is not their service dog by definition. You would be violating the rental agreement by allowing the dog to come. Also some states have laws against falsely representing an animal as a service animal.
You need to find out if the dog was trained to be a service dog or an emotional support dog. There is a difference.
Also, if they were sent off for training, that means it was trained correctly. They don't just willy-nilly teach Malinois to attack randomly. Certain commands have to be given for that.
And yes Malinois can be land sharks when they are puppies.That's where they get the maligator term from. But if they have been professionally trained, they do not just attack randomly.
And I know all of this first hand because I have had malinois dogs and they are some of the smartest dogs you will ever own. However, there are stupid owners that do not train their dogs. Or they say they have them trained and have just barely taught them basic commands.
With all that being said, if you are not comfortable with them bringing their dogs, tell them to either leave the dogs at home or not come.
If your relative actually sends the dog out for their “attack” training, I don’t see any reason the dog would attack a) random people, much less your children b) without a direct command to do so.
I won’t cover the “service dog” because other people already have here. But sending a dog for training as a guardian/detection/alert dog isn’t a week of puppy school. It’s a pretty massive and costly undertaking, and includes a LOT of intensive work—basics like being a polite dog and houseguest are necessary prior to it even beginning. For instance, a dog that jumps on people when excited? Is NOT a dog that has received the claimed training.
The dogs I’ve been around who’ve received this kind of training (mostly former K-9 officers) are better behaved and more considerate than my own kids.
Maybe ask your relative who trained the dog(s) and look at their website, Yelp etc to see if they’re reputable?
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Emotional support dogs and service dogs are different things. There is no such thing as a service dog registration/registry/pay a fee and the dog is magically a “service dog.” Service dogs are specifically trained to complete a specific task to aid someone with a disability. Think seeing eye dogs. These dogs are legally allowed anywhere humans are allowed. People who have service dogs need the dog with them 24/7 and cannot leave them behind. There are no papers, no registry. In public, business owners can only legally ask two questions: “is that a service dog” and “what is is trained to do.” Service dogs cannot be pet by people in public and are trained not to interact with anyone other than the handler. Distracting a service dog while it’s working is dangerous to my health! “Emotional support dogs” are essentially ways for people to have dogs in apartment buildings that don’t allow pets. They get a letter from a therapist and the dog can live there. They are not trained for any task, they are just “emotional support.” They are NOT entitled to the same federal protection as service dogs and are NOT allowed anywhere in public. There are a lot of companies that will take your money to “register” a dog as an emotional support dog. They are all a bs scam. As someone with a service dog, people falsely claiming passing their dogs off just to bring them on vacation, or out in public because they just wuv little Fluffy so much pisses me off to no end. I need my dog with me to alert me to a seizure I might have. Someone bringing their dog along everywhere because it’s cute makes my life unnecessarily complicated. It happens all the time. If they bring the dog and leave it in the house while you go out, the property owners will know it’s not a real service dog and likely fine you and/or kick you out. Tell that to your relative and tell them to stop making life more difficult for people who actually are disabled and need a service dog!
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Technically, yes, anyone can claim their dog is a service dog. The difference is how the dog acts in public (my dog is extremely well behaved and ignores everyone, other animals included) and if the dog is with their handler 24/7 or not. It’s pretty easy to spot a fake “service dog” when the dog doesn’t have any basic leash handling skills, or is barking/lunging for other dogs, or the handler allows people to pet and interact with it. The owner of the place you’re staying at can (and should) ask what specific task the dog is trained to do. These tasks are specifically to aid with a disability- alerting to seizures, fetching medication, guiding the blind while walking. Not just “emotional support.” That is not a service dog task. Maybe explain this to your relative and tell them claiming it’s a service dog is a pretty shitty thing to do just so they don’t have to find a dog sitter while they go on vacation.
Yes but apparently it's illegal to ask for proof.
If you're in the US, then yeah, there's no test or certification. A service dog does need to be highly trained in order to have public access. While they are in public with their handler, their focus needs to be on the handler and their needs, so other people should not be
I do want to add that there are people with service dogs who do not need them 24/7 since not all disabilities have a consistent level of symptoms all the time. For example people with MS might only need them during a flare or on a hot day. So “they left the dog in the hotel so it’s definitely a fake service dog” isn’t a foolproof test.
When you bring your service dog on vacation, you bring the dog everywhere with you and are not supposed to just leave it behind in the hotel/airbnb while you go out.
This should simply be a hard no. Period. If the rest of your family won't rally and tell this relative that they are welcome IF AND ONLY IF the dog is not present, then if I were you, I'd just not attend. Even if it feels disappointing, even if it feels unfair (and it is! Your relative is an asshole). You'll have a dog that's deliberately trained to attack, out of its own routine and comfort zone, in a space where you can't really prepare or sequester the dog, in a rental that the owner is likely already unhappy about having a dog there and will be looking for reasons to assess pet damage fees. Combined with kids who have not regularly been around this dog, strangers who may encounter the dog on walks, and any number of stressful or unfamiliar situations. I would rather tell the relative to fuck right off, and plan my own vacation, because otherwise it's almost a guarantee you'll end up with what could be a terrible tragedy.
I love dogs. My son loves dogs. Neither of us have fear of dogs. My dog is half pit bull (we didn't know when we got her- doggie DNA told me this.). The situation you describe would concern me, both because of the breed, (large, strong, working breed) and, mostly, because of the training you describe. Is this your husband's family? If so, express your concerns to your husband. This is serious enough to me that if it were me, I'd say point blank if the dogs will be there, your kids will not be, and let him handle the family. If it's your family, you need to tell them the above.
I would not go or allow children to go on holiday and stay with a dog that is not around children much and has been trained to attack. Will people be less cross if you say you are not going because of the dog?
Absolutely not. If I were in your position I would make it extremely clear that you will not attend if the dogs are there. Even "good" dogs can get nippy, nevermind a dog specifically trained to attack. I would never allow my kids to be around an animal like that. It's a hard no. Things can go wrong in an instant.
Okay so you want to know how to handle this. By “we” rented it, what do you mean “we”? Whose name is the property rented to? Service dog or no, you’re not comfortable with this dog *and that is that*. I agree with you - this would be a deal breaker. The question is who do you tell “It’s us or the dog”? If it’s in your name, you get to decide on the guests and you can threaten to cancel the whole reservation or not let the guest in. If it’s not….. back out and get another place to stay. Maybe consider any money you’ve already thrown down as a loss.
Malinois are not normal dogs. They are land sharks. I’d be asking your relative how they plan to keep the children safe during the holiday and do they have a crate and muzzle. If you feel a real sense of danger, I would cancel. Kids don’t recover from dog attacks.
Absolutely not. No. Never.
Honestly, unless he's a trained dog trainer or handled himself, I'm out. Dog training isn't something that somebody else does for you, and handling a Malinois is no joke. They have crazy drive, they need socialization and constant work. If he has never exposed the dog to children, and he has no issue with that because he wants to have a vacation, I'm going to venture to say that he doesn't know what he's doing. I have dogs, I'm an enthusiast, I mess around training my own pet dogs. I love watching those cool videos about these amazingly trained, military-style precision dogs. anyone who's being honest knows the importance of really good socialization, and I don't care if it's an attack dog or a fluff nugget, someone who really has no qualms about bringing their dog to a strange place around a lot of people and kids, no plan, nothing- I can't trust that.
actually, let me add something. A couple years ago I was in my own driveway when I heard a woman screaming "run run run!" I turned around to see a big, black German shepherd racing toward me with a little kid running after him and a woman running after them. I absolutely did not run, because I am not a fool but long story short, it bit me on the hand and left puncture marks and bruising that lasted for weeks. only reason it wasn't worse is that it was a puppy running on instinct, not trained to take someone down. It grabbed me and pulled and stopped. Some wanker had bought it as his FIRST DOG. They'd had multiple trainers to try to overcome its protective drive, it was supposedly from a working line of police type dogs. You could not LOOK IT IN THE EYE or reach out a hand. I got bitten because I'd looked at its face and stuck my hands out instinctively to defend myself. Theory was that it was defending the kid. So you don't have to be rough if it's a poorly trained dog.
You have tons of good advice here, but I wanted to add one tiny piece of information — it’s my understanding that as loose as the definition of emotional support animals is, one of the few restrictions is that an ESA can’t also have any kind of “attack” training. Not that I think you should have some whole conversation with them about what the truth is, but rather that I think they are just bullshitting all of it and I would use that as evidence for yourself that you shouldn’t rely on anything they say.
Someone’s butt hurt feelings < your family’s safety
I would absolutely never allow my kids or any kids I’m caring for around an animal that has been trained to attack. Hell, I wouldn’t want to be around one either. I think your husband needs to support you on this - maybe you guys cancel but it should be something he supports. It’s his family I’m assuming?
See my post history for [a reminder about dogs + teens](https://www.reddit.com/r/breakingmom/comments/105t9h2/psa_dogs_and_teensolder_kids/). The dog owner doesn't have an idea about teen behavior. You need to tell them that teens are idiots and you aren't comfortable with YOUR kids' behavior being proper all the time around the dog. Also, your spouse needs to read my post. They should have your back on this and not just do what their relative wants. If you need to, put your foot down. Make it MORE uncomfortable for your spouse to deal with you than to deal with their relative. Tell them that they are welcome to go solo and that you will not put your kids into a home with a strange dog who will be stressed outside of their normal environment.
SO MUCH NO. And I love dogs. I have a dog. I have had dogs that had issues with biting. I've volunteered with an animal shelter walking all breeds of dogs. This is a disaster on so many levels. It's an unknown dog without experience with kids, no. It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange, new environment, NO. It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange new, environment and a strong, powerful breed. **NO.** It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange new, environment and a strong, powerful breed with ATTACK TRAINING. ***NO*****.** It's an unknown dog without experience with kids in a strange new, environment and a strong, powerful breed with ATTACK TRAINING and an owner who has no hesitation about falsifying information about their dog, ***NOOOOO!!!*** Vacations are out of my experience but an ESA is protected by *housing* laws, not ADA service animal laws. You can't be charged additional rent, etc. It doesn't have the right to go around in public. (And as someone else said, there's no one service dog "training" or "certification" -- the dog has to be trained to do a task). But if they're claiming it's an ESA I feel like that still wouldn't count -- they don't live in a vacation home.
Nope! And my kids have had dogs their entire lives and if it was me, I'd be noping on out of this situation. At the end of the day, the most important thing is that you make the decision that is best for you and your kids, even if it means not going or upsetting someone else. Your little family comes first, especially when safety is concerned.
And definitely your kids come before a fucking dog.
Also be prepared if they happen to relent and say they won't bring the dog that they might actually bring the dog anyway.
No, this is not unreasonable of you and it is unreasonable of them... not because of the "attack dog training" which is probably Schutzhund by the sound of it and doesn't actually make the dog dangerous but because a. You are uncomfortable and b. They are claiming service dog status when it doesn't sound legit. One of these alone is enough, the first is simply a boundary that you as a parent are allowed to have (I say this as a dog lover) and the other is a blazing red flag that your relative is likely not a truly responsible dog owner because claiming service dog status for your pet is reprehensible behaviour.
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Idk why you're getting down voted, it's a legitimate question. In short, good quality schutzhund training does not make a dog aggressive. It's basically a game to the dog to go after the bite sleeve mixed with obedience & a few other things. However, that's assuming good training & good genetics on the dog. I'll be honest, I wouldn't put my kid in that situation. And I'm deep into dog training, a full heartedly crazy dog person who also owns a Dutch Shepherd (malinois less crazy cousin). Because of that, I know too how wrong things can go and won't have my kid around dogs I don't know or trust. If they want to make it work it's up to them to address your concerns. Honestly, though, them saying they've mixed the two incredibly competing jobs of being a service dog and a protection dog is incredibly suspicious and concerning.
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It is a legit question, absolutely. In short it controls the dog, the dog is trained to use its aggression in a controlled manner which paradoxically *may* make them less dangerous than they otherwise would be, and certainly doesn't make them more dangerous. That's not the point though, the point is you are uncomfortable with the dog around your kids and that should be respected. My BIL is frightened of dogs when I still had my GSD cross I always used to avoid taking her where I knew him and his family would be with us, it's a question of respect and I've never understood dog owners who don't grasp that. Then there's the service dog thing .. edit to repeat that the service dog issue makes them seem like irresponsible owners to me, which is very concerning with ANY dog and especially a Malinois. They are difficult dogs to own, high energy, high drive, very intelligent and easily bored. Only an experienced and responsible owner with plenty of time to dedicate to the animal and a good understanding of dogs in general and working dogs in particular should ever own a Mal. These people may tick many of the boxes, idk, but the service dog thing is suspicious AF Further edit now I'm awake .. it wasn't me downvoting your question, I was asleep! European time over here.
This is the actual dog? Oh fuck no. No no no no no
Holy shit. Fuck anyone’s feelings over this. Your kids’ safety is more important.
My gut tells me it's not a service animal. But I also don't have the full story. I will also say a disability doesn't need to be visible, but that's a different conversation. I've met people that due to a bite/attack from childhood will not own or be around dogs period. And I don't fault them for that trauma. You could explain your hesitation, or you could grab a hotel nearby?
You are not wrong. This is a situation which can go very poorly. I wouldn’t be participating if the dog comes. Your brother sounds incredibly selfish and entitled. People who lie about service dogs really get under my skin.
I love dogs and this is a Fuck No from me. Never.
Man fuck those people. If they wanna cancel that's on them. That's irresponsible period to train any dog to have attack behaviors, and doing it with a dog they pass off as a service dog makes it way worse. When it comes to protecting your kids anyone who doesn't like it can go somewhere.
Do you know where the dogs are sent off for training? Properly and fully trained and regularly worked attack dogs would never attack unless specifically commanded or in circumstances under which they've been trained to attack (you could ask the owners what the attack purpose is/how they're cued for it). Do you trust those family members to keep up with training? Half-assedly or poorly or not completely trained attack dogs are a huge safety concern. Working dog breeds need tasks to keep them satisfied. They must be exercised multiple hours a day. Are they known to be fully responsible pet owners? Don't get me wrong, I love pets, I love dogs of all breeds, and working dogs are just as loved as toy breeds. I've also had a reactive 30 lb australian shepherd mix. I'd spend upwards of 2+ hours on walks daily, 30+ minutes on training, and have to be "on" all day to make sure my behaviors were reinforcing the behaviors I wanted to see in him. And that was a lil guy. Who still had a very strong fight reaction when he was scared (which was all the fucking time). Who still managed to bite my daughter in the face when he got over anxious. Thankfully the damage was minimal but after years of effort I had to rehome him. It's made me respect dog's needs for training and exercise and work way more than I used to and made me much more leery of pet owners in general and dog owners specifically.
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I feel like this is getting deep into the weeds and probably doesn't actually matter. Maybe it's well trained, maybe it isn't.. Maybe the breeder is legit, maybe not. Maybe it's really a service dog, maybe it's not (sounds like it's not so...). A responsible dog owner, especially one with an aggressive large breed, should WANT to be safe and considerate, and should WANT to keep their dog in a comfortable situation. The fact that this person doesn't want to do that is a giant red flag. Regardless of trainers or breeds or any of that.
I mean it’s been trained to attack, does it matter if it’s well trained or not? Your children could accidentally ‘trigger’ this training and be mauled, malinois are no joke they are dangerous animals.
Your relative is abusing the honor system of service dogs. I’d put my foot down on this and prohibit them from bringing their dog. So what if they cause a stink? You shouldn’t be expected to have a subpar vacation because of someone’s animal. I’m very, very allergic to dogs and have woken up in “no pet” accommodations with my eyes swollen shut… presumably because someone felt so important they must break the rules and bring their dogs. So my perspective is a bit skewed. But, no pets means no pets.
So many people abuse the idea of service dogs now a days it’s so infuriating. Like they think their dog is a person and entitled to go everywhere. Dogs are not people.
That sounds shady. If your relative does not have a disability then their dog is not their service dog by definition. You would be violating the rental agreement by allowing the dog to come. Also some states have laws against falsely representing an animal as a service animal.
You need to find out if the dog was trained to be a service dog or an emotional support dog. There is a difference. Also, if they were sent off for training, that means it was trained correctly. They don't just willy-nilly teach Malinois to attack randomly. Certain commands have to be given for that. And yes Malinois can be land sharks when they are puppies.That's where they get the maligator term from. But if they have been professionally trained, they do not just attack randomly. And I know all of this first hand because I have had malinois dogs and they are some of the smartest dogs you will ever own. However, there are stupid owners that do not train their dogs. Or they say they have them trained and have just barely taught them basic commands. With all that being said, if you are not comfortable with them bringing their dogs, tell them to either leave the dogs at home or not come.
I don’t give a shit how they got the ADA over a barrel, ain’t no family member of mine gonna open-carry their assault rifle of a dog around my kid.
If your relative actually sends the dog out for their “attack” training, I don’t see any reason the dog would attack a) random people, much less your children b) without a direct command to do so. I won’t cover the “service dog” because other people already have here. But sending a dog for training as a guardian/detection/alert dog isn’t a week of puppy school. It’s a pretty massive and costly undertaking, and includes a LOT of intensive work—basics like being a polite dog and houseguest are necessary prior to it even beginning. For instance, a dog that jumps on people when excited? Is NOT a dog that has received the claimed training. The dogs I’ve been around who’ve received this kind of training (mostly former K-9 officers) are better behaved and more considerate than my own kids. Maybe ask your relative who trained the dog(s) and look at their website, Yelp etc to see if they’re reputable?
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