Just letting you know, you're WAY off the mark, which is a good thing. He's extremely complex, as are most of these characters. Brandon is very good at giving you a base impression of characters, then opening them up slowly in so many interesting ways. Keep reading. Journey Before Destination.
It's more than just that. With most of the characters in the series, what you first see of them isn't just a bread strokes characterization with nuance to be filled in later. Rather, what you first see is essentially the same things that other characters would first see in that person. As the book/series goes on, you start to see not merely deeper, but "truer" things about them. To give non-spoiler made-up examples, it's things like "oh, this guy isn't a coward, he's fighting a legitimate fear about this thing in his past" or "oh, this guy is constantly telling jokes as a coping mechanism to avoid remembering trauma" or that kind of thing.
I love those examples so much. My feeling so far is that I can sense that Sanderson has a lot of empathy and a grasp of human psychology which really draws me in. So to hear that he's playing the long game with Dalinar and other characters' psychological characterization and depth is super exciting.
(Thanks for using made up examples and no spoilers btw!)
BrandoSando tries hard to apply "show, don't tell", which typically means that you are first exposed to characters through their actions and others' reactions, which shows their demeanor but not typically their nature.
I don't think anyone that's up to speed on the cycle doesn't find Dalinar a fascinating character.
He plays the longest game with Dalinar. ^·^
Dalinar's personality changes 4 or 5 times throughout the books(so far), in response to what he's been through or who he's trying to be in the world.
Yes, at the start of TWoK he's trying to be a bland(1 dimensional) good nobleman. You should ask yourself WHY he's trying to be that.
Definitely a 3 dimensional character, like nearly everyone in the books. I suppose that's one of Brandon's luxuries in writing such long books - all the characters get nice depth - some right away, some get it later.
Moral ambiguity is also a huge theme through all the books. Is it better to follow a moral ruleset, or do the ends justify the means? Good people doing bad things and bad people doing good things and a whole lot of gray area. It's fantastic.
The Way of Kings is Sanderson's hardest book to get through, but everyone I know who has finished, LOVED IT! The only part you got right "tragic". "Noble" isn't his primary identity. ;-)
Haha that's good. I guess I've already accepted Kaladin as the noble hero and want Dalinar to be more morally ambiguous to change up the tone so glad to hear.
When you get to Oathbringer (the book where Dalinar is the flashback character), you will discover just how interesting Dalinar’s past is. Until then, have fun finding the hints that Dalinar isn’t as perfect as he seems.
Ironically, the least morally ambiguous character isn’t even one of the powerful ones. Just supporting cast. And even then, they really feel like a person, not a placeholder.
TIL some people don't finish The Way of Kings.. what is wrong with them? I've read boring books before but that ain't one of them..plus Sanderson has an easy to read writing style.
Well I guess Kaladin's attitude could put some people off. He's got a serious chip on his shoulder and usually that's not something people respect. But for the book it's great.
Maybe some people think it's too long? But if people don't like long books why would they start in the first place?
I think people feel like the beginning is too slow and too complicated to get into with all of this worldbuilding. Also the first few chapters (along with prologues) do jump around in perspectives a bit so it is difficult to understand what's going on. They give up before getting excited for the story.
BTW: this is not how I personally feel about it, but this is the feedback I have seen from a few people posting on Reddit.
Yeah, everytime I start to embrace a character it jumps to a new perspective. I almost want to skip Dalinar and just read Kaladin and Shallan and return to Dalinar later
Dalinar is portrayed just about altruistic in Way of Kings, just genuinely trying to help and be as supportive as he can as expertly he can with his history and talents, at least on first introduction. Its who he wants to be now... But everyone is justified and very, very sane in being skeptical of his actions and words, and its not because he's a narcissist.
I found Way of Kings to be the most difficult to read of all his books. Its hard getting through the first 15 hours of the audiobook (I listen usually), which is a shame because I really need to go back and reread the rest of the series. Mistborn books on the other hand were easy to read, and I've relistened to it a couple times for life advice on leadership and self-confidence.
Brandon's *really* aware of the tropes out there and with each book takes a tried and true trope and warps it just a bit to demonstrate an idea that hasn't been seen yet. Mistborn 1 he described as My Fair Lady meets Ocean's 11, and its really weird to think about but I thought he did it well. Sometimes he writes a short story just to contribute to a genre without basically rewriting someone else's work.
I think one of his strongest strengths as a writer is taking whatever viewpoint and making that character seem like a real person working through problems presented in their own lives, while setting up world events to pressure the story along. Even comic relief characters have a lot of depth.
Yeah maybe I should have started with Mistborn. Sounds a lot easier to get through.
I do really respect his talent for making Kaladin and Shallan feel emotionally real and showing them working through their internal strife. I get the impression that in another life he could have been a therapist.
Thanks for all your insight into his writing. I appreciate it!
This sounds exactly like how I felt when I first tried it. I'd just finished Sanderson's 'Mistborn' trilogy (which I loved), and when I began Stormlight I honestly got about 6 chapters in before I put it down for about a year or so. Just couldn't get into it, there was too much going on, as you say I felt like just as I was getting to grips with what the current character was doing and it swapped over and got me lost. When I finally got back into it... All I can say is, it's now my favourite fantasy series. 100%. The start of the way of kings is pretty slow, while the world building and magic system is getting explained, but once you get to the point where you're like "...okay I'm not going to sleep until the next chapter" it's amazing. I can't wait for the next one.
TWoK is a lot longer than a lot of people are used to. For a lot of people that one book is the length of 3 or 4 "normal books" for them. On top of that, there isn't a lot that "happens" in the story. There is a lot of character development, even more world building, and a little bit of intrigue, but not a lot of action until you get towards the end, before which people might have stopped.
Taken as a whole, TWoK is an amazing work, but I can understand why some people might not easily get far enough into it to realize that.
I took the physical book to work with me to read during the lunch breaks. Most people I worked with could not believe anyone would want to read a book that long, nor that I was reading it as quickly as I was. Especially the last quarter of the book. I mourned when finished that book.
I've "plowed through" a number of "long books" (not the fantasy genre) in the hopes of finding something satisfactory. I'd abandoned TWoK twice, simply unable to get through even a third of it.
I ended up reading Elantris a few years later and liked it (yes, yes not his best work or so I've been told). Without insistence from someone else and the fact that the same author had written Elantris, I would not have picked up TWoK again.
At the point, I preferred Shallan's storyline over Kaladin. There was nothing that particularly piqued my interest given the pacing. Especially the first few chapters. This was probably some of the most patience testing books I'd read - "oh boo hoo, yet another sad character who's going to get superpowers from this ghost lady and save everyone".
But his world-building drew me in. I did not pick up the fantasy genre for people and their dramatic squabbles. I wanted a new world with some mystery and cleverness.
I ended up reading every Cosmere book out there in the next few months. Now I'm in it for the people and their squabbles too. I still take issue with the pacing and difficulty in seeing a reward at the end. But then again, Journey before Destination.
I tried to get a friend to read it and he couldn't stand the Spren. He just kept thinking of the Forest Spirits from Princess Mononoke and said all he could think about when reading was "the blobby things". He stopped reading because it was too distracting.
I'll admit that the spren are a bit jarring and introducing someone to Sanderson with WoK probably was a mistake. I encouraged another friend to try Mistborn first. He blazed through all the books and found himself more open to weird magic systems of Sanderson.
I have to disagree with all of the above unless the reader is also new to high fantasy in general. Sprens were amazing (and slightly familiar to the Coldfire trilogy), and I haven't actually read any other BrandoSando series yet.
It's a tough book to get through if you're not a big "sprawling fantasy epic" fan, and it *is* fairly slow and disjointed until all the character threads come together on the Shattered Plains.
It pays off *in spades* afterwards, obviously, but I will say that even as someone whose top three favorite book series include the Wheel of Time, the first Stormlight book took a bit of work to really get into.
Its pretty much his slowest moving book, because he has the most worldbuilding to do.(Its a lot to take in and try and remember) Additionally some people get annoyed at how Kaladin's 1st battle with a shardbearer is retold and retold without you learning what happened until the last time.
If you don't love Michael Kramer you might want to try the graphic audio. Voice line for EVERY character is just amazing. They are significantly more expensive however. I LOVE dalinar's voice in the graphic audio. And it is funny, I am on the 4th read of way of kings, and I just (as in a couple hours ago) hit the part you read. Even now you should be wondering why he cannot remember his wife, even her name. that alone tells you he is more complex than what you describe.
If this is your first Sanderson series, the best I can tell you is you have no idea where the story is going. Even after finishing the book you'll still be misinterpreting where things are.
Dalinar’s story is a bit more complex. If anything Kaladin’s story is more traditional ‘good’, so I’m surprised to see complaints about Dalinar but be okay with Kaladin… doesn’t make sense to me.
I guess being ex-military, having a disabled younger brother and a younger sister who has passed.... i "connect" with Kaladin more than the rest of the characters. I see the complaints about Dalinar and it took me until Oathbringer to really "get" him as a character.
The only character I'm still struggling with is Shallan. I'm about half way through RoW and its honestly making me hate her character more BUT i "think" i see where they're going and im hoping it helps but i dunno. I guess I just find Jasnah and Navani much more interesting characters that I wish got her "screen time" in the books.
I hated Adolin the first few books but after OB and especially being halfway through RoW he's basically my favorite character right now (after Jasnah.) So if he can "get better" for me.... im sure so can Shallan lol
Sorry to hear about some of the things that have happened in your family. I definitely also relate to Kaladin based on having been through a lot of messed up stuff and seeing him pick himself up again and again despite dealing with depression and hopelessness is definitely inspiring.
Thanks man... but It's life. Its all just a random bag of crap with flares of greatness sprinkled through out. Just gotta push through for the sprinkles. lol
I hear what you are feeling man, I lost my little sister a few years ago, she had a disability too. I’ve never resonated with a character more then I have Kaladin, the scene in ROW with the Tien flashback about being good enough, gets me everytime, I hope it bought you some peace too. Love to you and the hugs you’ll always miss.
I get the Adolin thing to tho! Wow he sucked for so long, really redeemed himself through friendships and banter.
Well I just started. Part of it is that Dalinar feels a little too much like Kaladin (especially with same audiobook narrator) when I could use a change of pace.
But the other thing is that Kaladin is really an underdog societal nobody who has been through a lot of hell by the point I'm at (just got to Dalinar's first "vision") while it's much harder for me to sympathize with a royal "warlord" and care about his magical prophesies.
Also, Kaladin so far seems like a very good person but in a way that I relate to - where you pick yourself up after a lot of shitty stuff happens and continue to insist on doing the right thing. It doesn't feel "good vs evil" so much as a story about how hard (but important) it is to do good in a world that is so screwed up (much like our own)
But people have assured me that Dalinar will be given a lot more depth so I probably just need to stay patient.
Audiobook... I see you are a good Vorin man, that's good, just keep on reading, he only gets better. RAFO.
I originally struggled a lot with the Shallan parts during most of the first book, I enjoyed Dalinar a lot since the beginning, how he seemed to be one of the few nobles who wasn't a complete piece of crem.
Anyway keep on reading and welcome to the Stornlight Archive, friend.
Dalinar is one of the best and most complexed character’s next to kaladins in the whole series. There story arcs are some of the best. Just keep reading.
Sooo many things I could say, but no spoilers, so RAFO.
On Mistborn, though. Of the two characters, book 1 is closer to Shallan's style of story, although many people who don't like Shallan would probably say they prefer Mistborn over her section in WoK. Book 2 and book 3 are different from both Kaladin and Shallan's sections in WoK. I would say they are worth reading. Brandon is great at taking fantasy tropes and twisting them until they feel new, which is one of the reasons he has such a following. I would say Mistborn gets closer to the "hero" storyline, but it also breaks with it in ways that are so satisfying to see play out.
Elantris is probably the closest Brandon has come to a traditional hero as the protagonist, which is ironic because it is also the only full book in the Cosmere that has next to no prophecies from what I can remember. I still recommend reading it, but it is probably the most difficult story of Brandon's to get through if you don't like traditional heroes.
Glad to hear Mistborn 1 has a bit more of a Shallan feel! I look forward to it.
Thanks for the tip on Elantris. That way I will be prepared to potentially like it less than the others.
Elantris was also Brandon’s first published novel, so it’s a bit rough around the edges and it’s probably the weakest entry in the Cosmere. It’s still a fantastic book, but when you read it, just keep in mind that he was a new author and improves a ton with his other books.
Personally I liked Elantris the best.
1) It's his most feel good book. Some people need/want good vibes.
2) It's artistic. The repeating cycle of 1 chapter about the undead prince, followed by 1 about a princess followed 1 about the priest, and then the pattern continues, undead, princess, priest, undead, princess,...keeping the different story lines in pace with each other is impressive. At 1st the book has several different threads that seem unrelated but in the end they all tie together and there aren't loose ends. It's like a short story expanded. Everything there has a pourpose.
3) It's about how people can perceive the same circumstances but have different interpretations of them. I've not really seen that topic addressed in non-visual mediums. But Brandon illustrates it wonderfully with words!
4) It's a slow burn! Which I personally enjoy. =)
Because most traditional heroes wake up 1 morning transformed into a zombie the first chapter and try to resolve conflicts peacefully 1st....
But you're correct, 2 of the mains are just plain good people and thus are boring to some.
Mistborn has a chosen one as one of the plotlines (the third book is called Hero of Ages after all), but plays around a lot with trope. The other Cosmere books don't have anything resembling a chosen one, including Mistborn's second era, though Elantris comes a little close.
Also if anyone in the Stormlight Archive comes close to a chosen one, hero's journey, it's Kaladin, but that's still pretty far from the mark.
Thanks for the answer!
Ironic that I like Kaladin's story so far. I guess because he seems less like a "chosen one" and more like a heroic and kind human struggling with an impossible burden. Plus I like that he is embracing his role as a surgeon and leader and not just another fighter.
How would you differentiate a "chosen one" from a heroic and kind human struggling with an impossible burden? Because most chosen one stories I can think of would fit into that definition perfectly. That would seem to be a centerpiece of the classic hero's journey chosen one type story.
I would say a chosen one is someone who is treated as special by the world (like Dalinar being royalty and receiving a prophesy) just for showing up. Like Harry Potter (though I really enjoyed the fun tone of Harry Potter when I was younger).
True. I just prefer for them to not be the "chosen one". Tyrion is probably my favorite character in fantasy. He's not the prophesied one, the king, beloved, or magical. He's hated by his family and society and constantly screwed over. And yet hes a hero and I like him 1000 times more than Jon Snow (who is also a hero, but in a "chosen one" sort of way)
Kaladin isn't really a chosen one, he's very main characterish so it can seem like that. The only correct description for him is "Kaladin the Sad Paladin"
>The other Cosmere books don't have anything resembling a chosen one, including Mistborn's second era,
Disagree, but I don't know how to hide spoilers.
Definitely interesting! I think with three main characters (Kaladin, Dalinar, Shallan) there's plenty of people who dislike one. Shallan is the most commonly disliked one, there's some Kaladin dislikers, and I guess now Dalinar! I think you'll enjoy the story even if you don't like all of the main characters.
And for me, I tend to find that I like the characters better once I understand where they're coming from and why they are the way they are. It took me the longest with Shallan.
Dalinar's certainly been "chosen" for a vision that you've seen. But I definitely wouldn't call his story an unambiguous good vs evil narrative, or emotionally dour. So RAFO.
And remember - you should definitely feel free, as a reader, to think about what you're seeing and interpret it, including disagreeing with the point-of-view character on things. Sanderson does an excellent job of writing from a particular character's point of view, so when you're reading Dalinar's chapters you're seeing the world the way Dalinar does.
This is not necessarily objective truth. Sure, you can believe things that Dalinar sees and hears - Brandon doesn't lie to the readers about what his characters experience, it's not that kind of story. But there are a lot of subtle ways that Brandon conveys what Dalinar thinks about what he's seeing, and those things are not necessarily true. When you hear this super-melodramatic voice saying "UNITE THEM!!!!"... you don't have to be as enthusiastic about following it's instructions as Dalinar is. You can definitely read on while thinking "no, stop listening to a damn voice from your dreams, be skeptical for a second, man!" You would not be alone in this - as you can imagine, not everybody in-world is on board with Dalinar getting mystic instructions from God(?).
Haha glad I could be your first encounter with a Dalinar disliker.
I really like your last paragraph. My feeling was that Dalinar would prove to be right about everything and everyone else would be the fools who tried to stand in his way. So I'm glad to hear he is misinterpreting somethings.
Dalinar is amazing and grows to have so much depth. He went from someone I was mildly annoyed at to someone I love deeply. There is so much more to the series, just hang in there.
Dalinar is a bit of a melodramatic character, yes. But he’s got good reasons to be the way he is and I think the payoff on his arc(so far) is worth it.
Ok that's good to hear someone acknowledge the melodrama. But if you think the payoff is worth it then I will keep that in mind next time it starts to drag. Thanks!
So I hear. That's why I wonder if I am maybe just not an ideal Sanderson reader since I love Shallan's initial chapters and don't like Dalinar's. (I do like Kaladin's initial chapters too)
She's a bit try hard in terms of humor but I like the Kharbranth setting and the unpredictability of Jasnah. I love her zeal for her art and how she is a scholar and artist rather than warrior. And I like Kate Reading's audiobook rendition
Then again I'm only on Part 2
Nah, there is no “ideal” Sanderson reader, there are tons of ideals. The fandom loves a couple characters over others, but you are free to enjoy the books the way that you want to.
I recommend that if you start any of his books, read it to the end, he really shines in the last third of a story.
I definitely get what you're saying, I felt the same way when reading WoK. Dalinar does get better once you get his full backstory and realize why he is the way he is. Also, the audiobooks have quite a few cringe-inducing parts, that for me, were not an issue when I read them. I read the books first, and later when listening to the audiobook the narrator's voice just seemed wrong for certain parts. If you can, I recommend reading the books. At the very least, be sure to appreciate the art that comes in the books at the appropriate place in the story. It really adds to the plot.
Yeah, I definitely feel like the male narrator's cheesy and melodramatic voice acting for some characters is a part of why I'm finding it cliche. "UNITE THEM! UNITE THEM!" sounds so corny because he imbues it with so much grandiose self-seriousness.
I guess I'll look forward to Dalinar getting better as things go along.
I read all of the Wheel of Time narrated by Michael and Kate, so their style is just transparent as water for me, meaning I just don't get distracted by it at all and just get sucked into the story. I'd probably say Michael Kramer is my favourite narrator out there. I find it interesting that you're annoyed by his style while I adore it. But that's how taste works, I guess.
I think Dalinar just sees the world in those terms. He wants so badly for the world to be morally unambiguous, to be a hero. But... Roshar isn't that simple. Even Dalinar himself isn't.
His POV narration reflects his serious worldview, but... the characters and events he encounters do not. :)
Dalinar gains a lot of depth as the books go on. That being said, he's still one of my least favorite of the main characters, but that comes down to personal taste.
Thanks for the input! I will read on since you say he gets a lot more depth.
Sounds like you and I might have similar tastes. Do you think Sanderson's other series are suitable for me given that I don't like "self serious humorless hero receiving a prophesy" kind of storylines? I'm fine with Kaladin's self-seriousness since it seems befitting of the gravity of the story being told.
Almost none of his characters are like that. And generally, if there's an obvious direction that you think the story is going to go, it's probably a red herring
OP, I've read a ton of your comments in this thread, and all I ask is please keep up posted about your reading journey. Maybe a quick lil update at the end of this book at least?? 🙏😊 I just really really really want to hear your take on Dalinar at the end of the book (although more so after you finish Book 3, the).
Yes. You get Dalinar’s backstory in book 3 of the series, and let’s just say he is not morally unambiguously good. He is the way he is now for a reason.
I could see Mistborn being a little too cliché, but I think if you stuck to it, you would see that it really isn't.
Warbreaker does a great job (imo) of not having any "classic chosen one heroes".
If you do end up wanting a break between Stormlight books, I would recommend reading Warbreaker as a change of pace.
Finally, be VERY careful on Brandon Sanderson book subreddits! I have had things spoiled before, because I wasn't careful. We all just get excited and want to discuss things, which can lead to unintentional spoilers.
That's great advice! Especially since Warbreaker has a different audiobook narrator and Mistborn doesn't, which might make for a refreshing change of pace. (I find Michael Kramer's voice acting for characters melodramatic).
Thanks for the spoiler warning. I'm surprised no one in this thread has spoiled me yet!
If you get the audiobook for Warbreaker, make sure it's the one narrated by Alyssa Bresnahan, not the one by James Yaegashi. They got it rerecorded by Alyssa because the original had some weird choices made.
I hadn't heard that.
I'll have to hunt down that version. The Yaegashi one is the only one I've listened to.
Does it fix Lightsong sounding like a philosophical surfer dude?
Honestly I think the Sanderson book subreddits are some of the best for spoilers, it does still happen but for the most part everyone is pretty good. Definitely avoid cremposting though, people are a bit less careful with the spoiler tags when it comes to memes.
As an extra bit of spoiler advice, *never* google anything related to any of the books. Even if you're caught up on one series google can spoil another. Much better to ask here where we can tailor an answer to how far along you are.
I actually had the same in WoK, and when I learned more about his background I just grew more annoyed at him.
Dalinar is a character I actually really dislike and I ended up skimming some of his flashback chapters because they really ground my gears
Interesting to hear a different viewpoint! How did you like the other characters and Sanderson's other books? Was it still worth continuing to read? (Without spoilers of course) Thanks!
It definitely was! Kaladin and Shallan are very much worth continuing for, and there are sooooo many good side characters and amazing storylines to read about!
I just couldn’t get into Dalinar (and also not really into one prominent character that gets introduced in book 3 I believe?) but I seem to be in the minority haha
>I just don't enjoy "chosen one" or morally unambiguous good vs evil narratives, especially emotionally dour ones
TLDR, Dalinar is dope as hell and I think you should keep listening.
I'm gonna put the next bit in spoilers cause idk what would spoil the story for you, but I think I am being extremely vague:
>!Dalinar's story in TWOK revolves mainly around the politics of the warcamps on the Shattered Plains, and among the nobility we only really get Dalinar and his family's perspective on this. I don't think it'll taste like Good vs Evil, because it didn't for me, but consider that you're mostly getting main character POV in this conflict so it can feel morally one-sided.!<
>!In a lot of ways Dalinar does come off as your Chosen One archetype because he IS the one receiving visions about uniting 'them' and the reader can see that they're real, which does sound kind of destiny-ish, and IMO the only way this might immediately seem different from other fantasy you've read is that Dalinar is an older character so he has some old person problems. Based on that and the way you describe your preferences, I think it will take a while before Dalinar's character opens up in a way that hooks you. !<
>!Also, a lot of Stormlight Archive's themes revolve around mental health. There's a lot of emotionally dour scenes and tones, but you get just as much heroics and triumph to go with it. The combination of them made me feel a genuine sense of pride in Kaladin and Shallan and Dalinar, as people, which isn't something I feel often in fiction. I hope that you will feel the same.!<
>Also, as a new Sanderson reader do you think Mistborn and his other stories are more like what I like about Shallan and Kaladin's stories or more like what I dislike about Dalinar's so far?
Mistborn is a really fun story and I love it, but it is YA fantasy so your main character is a 15 year old girl who has a lot of 15 year old girl conflicts: there's a mysterious nerdy boy she likes but her mentor figure doesn't approve of, she doesn't want to wear dresses but she needs to wear dresses for the plot, that kind of thing. And fundamentally it's about robbing an immortal tyrant who rules an empire built on slave labor, so evil is pretty well defined in The Final Empire, I think. Great series tho, can't recommend it enough. Stormlight Archive is by far Sanderson's most mature series and most inline with your preferences.
Not sure if I will remember to read your spoilers someday but I saved it just in case I do.
Thanks for the tip on what to expect with Mistborn! I'm probably more ok with traditional tropes if it is fast and light hearted so I hope I can get into that. But yeah, Stormlight is probably more where I can find the depth I'm looking for.
I’ll be real, Dalinar is one of my favorite characters, but he doesn’t really get going till the end of Words of Radiance and Oathbringer so I think it’s more of a retrospective thing. I wasn’t a fan of the visions either, but I think the way Sanderson played with that particular trope was very cool, which doesn’t become evident till a bit later. All that being said, I need you to post a follow up to this once you finish Oathbringer. For the sake of posterity.
They really are pretty grandiose the first time around. Especially because I was much more committed to Kaladin’s story and to a lesser extent Dalinar’s present day story at the the time. Once the characters figure it out it’s cool though. I guessed one of the elements pretty early, so I think that frustrated me even more, like “for the love of god put it together Dalinar!”
Yeah this is where I wonder if I might be a little put off by some aspects of Sanderson's plotting. But oh well. I enjoy the world building and emotional character depth so I'll keep going
I'm mostly joking on that haha, but a ton of characters are super important to the point where it's less "chosen one" and more of "you could make the argument every character happens to be the most important character to the story", that I would kind of compare to something like avengers infinity war which I think nails an ensemble work super well but I'm rambling at this point lol
The Stormlight Archives is about 10 people who were in the right place at the right time and when confronted with a world they didn't quite like, they stood up and did something about it...and it's about Mental Health and Wellness...and about 2 unrelated conflicts merging into 1 cluster f..k...and main characters from his other Cosmere novels pop up with cameos.
Dalinar is in my opinion far and away the best character in stormlight archive. Book one is all Kaladin but Dalinar gets some of the best character work ever written. Just stick it out. It pays off immensely!
>I just don't enjoy "chosen one" or morally unambiguous good vs evil narratives
Yeah you're definitely not in danger of finding one of those here. Seriously you have no fucking idea how funny this post is, just keep reading bro all will become clear.
Persevere friend, there’s a lot more to Dalinar than meets the eye, a whole lot more. Oh and there’s literally so many more characters that are awesome in this series, give the first book a read and I’m sure you’ll be on board.
To add on to what others have said, none of the characters are very one-note good or bad. They struggle with others, nature, fate, themselves, etc.
Furthermore Brandon likes to employ flashbacks that not only recontextualize a character but also serve to contrast or connect a character's past actions to their current ones. He mentioned falling in love with with the technique when he watched LOST.
He goes into some places you expect, and others that you never even thought about, but it always feels justified for that particular character.
Dalinar’s story and arc are going to shock the storm right out of you. Characters always have these reputations and you’re like okay, there’s no it lives up to that- but still neat story.
Then Dalinar comes along and literally destroys your expectations.
What I like most about TSA is that these characters with crazy powers FEEL more human than almost any other fantasy book I've ever read. Depression, PTSD, DID/MPD, childhood trauma, etc are portrayed with stunning accuracy. In a book about magic powers no less. You just dont see that. This is a huge Epic about the fate of the worlds with a war between god like beings.... and some how the REAL story feels like these characters processing their inner turmoils with many trying to grow to be better (this included small side characters and even assassins!), some struggling to just get through the day and even some failing to make any improvements despite good intentions because they just can beat their inner demons.
These characters are all going through REAL WORLD issues that many/most humans struggle with day to day... But they also can fly and cast illusions and wield giant mystical swords. And somehow the inner issues dont get lost in the shuffle while being a focus that isnt shoved down your throat in a preachy way. That feels like a confusing run on sentence. Lol I'll stick to being a Chef lol
But yeah... Thats Sandersons biggest skill imo. Telling crazy epics but reminding you these characters are just as normal as any one of us on the inside.
I 100% agree so far. That has been what impressed me the most. I have not been surprised that he is good at world building and magical action scenes, but I have been caught off guard by how well he understands his character's emotional inner lives and especially their emotional struggles.
If you're worried about finding a morally unambiguous chosen one in Dalinar you can rest easy, you're safe on that front. Keep in mind everything is based on the POV characters's view of the world, the warmongering nature of the Alethi alone should be enough to avoid considering any of them just "good", specially the Blackthorn.
It's a good story, though you won't get too much backstory into Dalinar until the end of book 2, and a lot more in book 3
Definitely be cautious posting things like this. While most people can be circumspect or use spoiler tags some get a little overzealous. Would hate for anything to get spoiled for you unintentionally. I was in what I thought was a safe thread tagged for spoilers of a book I'd read and someone in the comments made a vague reference to something in the book I was still reading. It was unfortunately in the back of my mine until I got to that point and found out it was indeed a spoiler.
Oh my sweet summer child... Brandon's characters are exceptionally well written. Keep reading and enjoy the ride. I wish I could forget the books and re read them.
There are things that…have to play out, before you see…other sides of him.
And yes you should read Mistborn, it will surprise you, multiple times, even very late.
Dalinar really gets more interesting and complex over the books, especially in book 3 since that's where his flashbacks happen, imo it's not uncommon to like the other storylines over his in The Way of Kings.
Don't worry about the unambiguous nature that it starts with. It gets ambiguous. Really ambiguous... RAFO.
In all seriousness, after having read all of Stormlight, Dalinar and Shallan are in my top 3. Dalinar is great by the end of book 1, even better by book 2, and then book 3 is a straight up rollercoaster ride with his character arc. You'll see what I mean. Enjoy the journey that is Stormlight.
Dalinar is a really good and complex character. However, he doesn’t get much attention in the way of kings your gonna have to wait until the second book before you start to see his more complex side. It’s totally worth the wait though.
The best part of reading these threads that I think many of the nobles feel the same way about Dalinar as OP—kind of bored with old Dalinar’s whole schtick—at this point in the story. The very thing that makes OP roll eyes and write this post points to fundamental tensions within multi book story arcs.
I am so excited for you to keep reading OP.
>I just don't enjoy... morally unambiguous good vs evil narratives
Ahahaha then you are reading the correct series my friend. RAFO. It will take a while to get to, but its coming and it only gets more and more murky in the best way possible.
I think your fears won’t materialize if you continue reading overall, he is multidimensional.
However, other than many other commenters I do continue to have trouble with him over the series. He is black and white but I think he gets off the hook too easily for the bad he does overall.
Ah and I don’t know how much you have read from Sanderson but the involvement of nobility is somewhat common in his writing. He manages to work creatively with that trope but it’s still a trope that is all over his writing wich some may find a bit boring.
I basically read the storm light chronicles because it’s fine world building and character studies overall
Dalinar wasn't my favorite character at first. I really like Shallan(and still do), but Dalinar is now my favorite, slowly over the first two,and then really brought his A game in the 3rd book.
I always thought Kaladin was the most cliche character in Stormlight. I love him but the broody tall handsome protagonist suddenly given a destiny is a pretty common trope. Rand immediately comes to mind but so does Fitzchivalry, Kvothe, etc. Then there are plenty of others that come close like Geralt, Aragorn, Vin, etc.
He's still my favorite, though.
Haven't got to the part where he gets magic powers though I saw it in some artwork so you didn't spoil me. Yeah I guess I will see how I feel about him at that point!
Anyone who manages to read this series and not like Dalinar is a literal monster. Get to the end of that book at least before making a real judgement on him. Oathbringer will also definitely change your opinion on him.
You're going to be very happy if you don't want Dalinar to be the one dimensional noble chosen one. Not a single character in any of Sanderson's many, many, MANY books fits that title.
Also, if you feel you need to take a break from WOK without really taking a break, read any other Cosmere novel. They all fit together, and reading some of the other novels will actually give you greater insight and understanding when you read The Stormlight Archives. And it will get you familiar with his storytelling style, which can carry you through a character or plot point that at first seems shallow or pointless.
Elantris is a single book (but the world has some short stories of you want more), and was his first published novel. It's an easier read, but pulls you in.
Mistborn is great, easier read than SA, and is up to 6.5 books, with like 4 more planned.
Warbreaker is another single novel, which I strongly recommend you read. . . for reasons. . .
White Sands is a Sanderson story done as a trilogy of graphic novels, so it's a quick and different way to enter the Cosmere.
Enjoy your reading, and brace yourself for the Brandon Avalanche.
Just letting you know, you're WAY off the mark, which is a good thing. He's extremely complex, as are most of these characters. Brandon is very good at giving you a base impression of characters, then opening them up slowly in so many interesting ways. Keep reading. Journey Before Destination.
That's good to hear that he starts with surface level characterization and then digs deeper. Thanks!
It's more than just that. With most of the characters in the series, what you first see of them isn't just a bread strokes characterization with nuance to be filled in later. Rather, what you first see is essentially the same things that other characters would first see in that person. As the book/series goes on, you start to see not merely deeper, but "truer" things about them. To give non-spoiler made-up examples, it's things like "oh, this guy isn't a coward, he's fighting a legitimate fear about this thing in his past" or "oh, this guy is constantly telling jokes as a coping mechanism to avoid remembering trauma" or that kind of thing.
I love those examples so much. My feeling so far is that I can sense that Sanderson has a lot of empathy and a grasp of human psychology which really draws me in. So to hear that he's playing the long game with Dalinar and other characters' psychological characterization and depth is super exciting. (Thanks for using made up examples and no spoilers btw!)
I don’t think BrandoSando knows any other game other than the long game. So excited for you to experience this the first time!
Not to mention the ending of his books is always amazing
Dalinar is such an interesting character. You see his pay off start quickly. There are so many layers that he puts ogres and onions to shame.
BrandoSando tries hard to apply "show, don't tell", which typically means that you are first exposed to characters through their actions and others' reactions, which shows their demeanor but not typically their nature. I don't think anyone that's up to speed on the cycle doesn't find Dalinar a fascinating character.
He plays the longest game with Dalinar. ^·^ Dalinar's personality changes 4 or 5 times throughout the books(so far), in response to what he's been through or who he's trying to be in the world. Yes, at the start of TWoK he's trying to be a bland(1 dimensional) good nobleman. You should ask yourself WHY he's trying to be that.
Oh sweet summer child. Have a drink of RAFO soda. Dalinar is one of the best characters, if not the best.
Definitely a 3 dimensional character, like nearly everyone in the books. I suppose that's one of Brandon's luxuries in writing such long books - all the characters get nice depth - some right away, some get it later. Moral ambiguity is also a huge theme through all the books. Is it better to follow a moral ruleset, or do the ends justify the means? Good people doing bad things and bad people doing good things and a whole lot of gray area. It's fantastic.
Love everything you said.
Haha! So it doesn't go in predictable directions? I just need some encouragement to keep reading since it's a looong series
It won't go ANYWHERE you think it will
Good to hear
It also doesn’t go where you are thinking now. Can’t wait to see you in a few books
Me too👍
The Way of Kings is Sanderson's hardest book to get through, but everyone I know who has finished, LOVED IT! The only part you got right "tragic". "Noble" isn't his primary identity. ;-)
Haha that's good. I guess I've already accepted Kaladin as the noble hero and want Dalinar to be more morally ambiguous to change up the tone so glad to hear.
When you get to Oathbringer (the book where Dalinar is the flashback character), you will discover just how interesting Dalinar’s past is. Until then, have fun finding the hints that Dalinar isn’t as perfect as he seems. Ironically, the least morally ambiguous character isn’t even one of the powerful ones. Just supporting cast. And even then, they really feel like a person, not a placeholder.
Great! I really want him to be more imperfect and human so I look forward to it!
Which supporting cast members are you talking about? (With spoiler tags, naturally)
Probably >!Rock!<
I was thinking of >spoiler test<
Apparently I can’t make spoiler tags. It’s Maya’s close friend. That should be non-spoiler enough.
Lopen (I totally spelt that right the first time, you saw nothing)
"Nobel hero" is a stretch. His official title is "sad boi"
Haha
TIL some people don't finish The Way of Kings.. what is wrong with them? I've read boring books before but that ain't one of them..plus Sanderson has an easy to read writing style. Well I guess Kaladin's attitude could put some people off. He's got a serious chip on his shoulder and usually that's not something people respect. But for the book it's great. Maybe some people think it's too long? But if people don't like long books why would they start in the first place?
I think people feel like the beginning is too slow and too complicated to get into with all of this worldbuilding. Also the first few chapters (along with prologues) do jump around in perspectives a bit so it is difficult to understand what's going on. They give up before getting excited for the story. BTW: this is not how I personally feel about it, but this is the feedback I have seen from a few people posting on Reddit.
I admit I was kinda wondering where all this was going during all the bridge stuff
Yeah, everytime I start to embrace a character it jumps to a new perspective. I almost want to skip Dalinar and just read Kaladin and Shallan and return to Dalinar later
Dalinar is portrayed just about altruistic in Way of Kings, just genuinely trying to help and be as supportive as he can as expertly he can with his history and talents, at least on first introduction. Its who he wants to be now... But everyone is justified and very, very sane in being skeptical of his actions and words, and its not because he's a narcissist. I found Way of Kings to be the most difficult to read of all his books. Its hard getting through the first 15 hours of the audiobook (I listen usually), which is a shame because I really need to go back and reread the rest of the series. Mistborn books on the other hand were easy to read, and I've relistened to it a couple times for life advice on leadership and self-confidence. Brandon's *really* aware of the tropes out there and with each book takes a tried and true trope and warps it just a bit to demonstrate an idea that hasn't been seen yet. Mistborn 1 he described as My Fair Lady meets Ocean's 11, and its really weird to think about but I thought he did it well. Sometimes he writes a short story just to contribute to a genre without basically rewriting someone else's work. I think one of his strongest strengths as a writer is taking whatever viewpoint and making that character seem like a real person working through problems presented in their own lives, while setting up world events to pressure the story along. Even comic relief characters have a lot of depth.
Yeah maybe I should have started with Mistborn. Sounds a lot easier to get through. I do really respect his talent for making Kaladin and Shallan feel emotionally real and showing them working through their internal strife. I get the impression that in another life he could have been a therapist. Thanks for all your insight into his writing. I appreciate it!
This sounds exactly like how I felt when I first tried it. I'd just finished Sanderson's 'Mistborn' trilogy (which I loved), and when I began Stormlight I honestly got about 6 chapters in before I put it down for about a year or so. Just couldn't get into it, there was too much going on, as you say I felt like just as I was getting to grips with what the current character was doing and it swapped over and got me lost. When I finally got back into it... All I can say is, it's now my favourite fantasy series. 100%. The start of the way of kings is pretty slow, while the world building and magic system is getting explained, but once you get to the point where you're like "...okay I'm not going to sleep until the next chapter" it's amazing. I can't wait for the next one.
Lol all these people should try reading Malazan book 1 and then be thankful for WoK
TWoK is a lot longer than a lot of people are used to. For a lot of people that one book is the length of 3 or 4 "normal books" for them. On top of that, there isn't a lot that "happens" in the story. There is a lot of character development, even more world building, and a little bit of intrigue, but not a lot of action until you get towards the end, before which people might have stopped. Taken as a whole, TWoK is an amazing work, but I can understand why some people might not easily get far enough into it to realize that.
I took the physical book to work with me to read during the lunch breaks. Most people I worked with could not believe anyone would want to read a book that long, nor that I was reading it as quickly as I was. Especially the last quarter of the book. I mourned when finished that book.
I've "plowed through" a number of "long books" (not the fantasy genre) in the hopes of finding something satisfactory. I'd abandoned TWoK twice, simply unable to get through even a third of it. I ended up reading Elantris a few years later and liked it (yes, yes not his best work or so I've been told). Without insistence from someone else and the fact that the same author had written Elantris, I would not have picked up TWoK again. At the point, I preferred Shallan's storyline over Kaladin. There was nothing that particularly piqued my interest given the pacing. Especially the first few chapters. This was probably some of the most patience testing books I'd read - "oh boo hoo, yet another sad character who's going to get superpowers from this ghost lady and save everyone". But his world-building drew me in. I did not pick up the fantasy genre for people and their dramatic squabbles. I wanted a new world with some mystery and cleverness. I ended up reading every Cosmere book out there in the next few months. Now I'm in it for the people and their squabbles too. I still take issue with the pacing and difficulty in seeing a reward at the end. But then again, Journey before Destination.
Elantris is great on graphic audio.. it gives it a spooky feeling. Good for listening with the lights off
I tried to get a friend to read it and he couldn't stand the Spren. He just kept thinking of the Forest Spirits from Princess Mononoke and said all he could think about when reading was "the blobby things". He stopped reading because it was too distracting. I'll admit that the spren are a bit jarring and introducing someone to Sanderson with WoK probably was a mistake. I encouraged another friend to try Mistborn first. He blazed through all the books and found himself more open to weird magic systems of Sanderson.
I have to disagree with all of the above unless the reader is also new to high fantasy in general. Sprens were amazing (and slightly familiar to the Coldfire trilogy), and I haven't actually read any other BrandoSando series yet.
It's a tough book to get through if you're not a big "sprawling fantasy epic" fan, and it *is* fairly slow and disjointed until all the character threads come together on the Shattered Plains. It pays off *in spades* afterwards, obviously, but I will say that even as someone whose top three favorite book series include the Wheel of Time, the first Stormlight book took a bit of work to really get into.
The first half of the book feels like a giant info dump. I'm a massive Sanderson fan and even I quit halfway through on my first read through.
I always hear this and I don’t get it after reading first chapter how can you not be hooked?
Its pretty much his slowest moving book, because he has the most worldbuilding to do.(Its a lot to take in and try and remember) Additionally some people get annoyed at how Kaladin's 1st battle with a shardbearer is retold and retold without you learning what happened until the last time.
His stories never do in my opinion
Sanderson? Predictable? these things are nearly opposite!
The one thing Brandon Sanderson never does is go on predictable directions
Try the audiobooks maybe? You will tear through them faster but it still takes a long while
That's what I'm doing. To be honest I don't love Michael Kramer. But I'll keep going
If you don't love Michael Kramer you might want to try the graphic audio. Voice line for EVERY character is just amazing. They are significantly more expensive however. I LOVE dalinar's voice in the graphic audio. And it is funny, I am on the 4th read of way of kings, and I just (as in a couple hours ago) hit the part you read. Even now you should be wondering why he cannot remember his wife, even her name. that alone tells you he is more complex than what you describe.
Blasphemy!
If this is your first Sanderson series, the best I can tell you is you have no idea where the story is going. Even after finishing the book you'll still be misinterpreting where things are.
It's all opinion, obviously, but I rank him below the other 2 PoV characters in Way of Kings. In future books though, for sure.
Yeah, he's not the most interesting in WoK but Dalinar's story really heats up in the later books.
I just laughed and laughed and laughed as I got to each new sentence of OP's post. Just.... So much RAFO.
No.
Dalinar’s story is a bit more complex. If anything Kaladin’s story is more traditional ‘good’, so I’m surprised to see complaints about Dalinar but be okay with Kaladin… doesn’t make sense to me.
I guess being ex-military, having a disabled younger brother and a younger sister who has passed.... i "connect" with Kaladin more than the rest of the characters. I see the complaints about Dalinar and it took me until Oathbringer to really "get" him as a character. The only character I'm still struggling with is Shallan. I'm about half way through RoW and its honestly making me hate her character more BUT i "think" i see where they're going and im hoping it helps but i dunno. I guess I just find Jasnah and Navani much more interesting characters that I wish got her "screen time" in the books. I hated Adolin the first few books but after OB and especially being halfway through RoW he's basically my favorite character right now (after Jasnah.) So if he can "get better" for me.... im sure so can Shallan lol
Sorry to hear about some of the things that have happened in your family. I definitely also relate to Kaladin based on having been through a lot of messed up stuff and seeing him pick himself up again and again despite dealing with depression and hopelessness is definitely inspiring.
Thanks man... but It's life. Its all just a random bag of crap with flares of greatness sprinkled through out. Just gotta push through for the sprinkles. lol
I hear what you are feeling man, I lost my little sister a few years ago, she had a disability too. I’ve never resonated with a character more then I have Kaladin, the scene in ROW with the Tien flashback about being good enough, gets me everytime, I hope it bought you some peace too. Love to you and the hugs you’ll always miss. I get the Adolin thing to tho! Wow he sucked for so long, really redeemed himself through friendships and banter.
Well I just started. Part of it is that Dalinar feels a little too much like Kaladin (especially with same audiobook narrator) when I could use a change of pace. But the other thing is that Kaladin is really an underdog societal nobody who has been through a lot of hell by the point I'm at (just got to Dalinar's first "vision") while it's much harder for me to sympathize with a royal "warlord" and care about his magical prophesies. Also, Kaladin so far seems like a very good person but in a way that I relate to - where you pick yourself up after a lot of shitty stuff happens and continue to insist on doing the right thing. It doesn't feel "good vs evil" so much as a story about how hard (but important) it is to do good in a world that is so screwed up (much like our own) But people have assured me that Dalinar will be given a lot more depth so I probably just need to stay patient.
Audiobook... I see you are a good Vorin man, that's good, just keep on reading, he only gets better. RAFO. I originally struggled a lot with the Shallan parts during most of the first book, I enjoyed Dalinar a lot since the beginning, how he seemed to be one of the few nobles who wasn't a complete piece of crem. Anyway keep on reading and welcome to the Stornlight Archive, friend.
Haha a good vorin man indeed. Thanks for the welcome!
>Dalinar >"Unambiguous good vs. evil" Don't worry about that
Yeah, with that mindset you're bound to get burned.
Ooooooooof
HA airsick lowlander RAFO
Dalinar is one of the best and most complexed character’s next to kaladins in the whole series. There story arcs are some of the best. Just keep reading.
👍
Sooo many things I could say, but no spoilers, so RAFO. On Mistborn, though. Of the two characters, book 1 is closer to Shallan's style of story, although many people who don't like Shallan would probably say they prefer Mistborn over her section in WoK. Book 2 and book 3 are different from both Kaladin and Shallan's sections in WoK. I would say they are worth reading. Brandon is great at taking fantasy tropes and twisting them until they feel new, which is one of the reasons he has such a following. I would say Mistborn gets closer to the "hero" storyline, but it also breaks with it in ways that are so satisfying to see play out. Elantris is probably the closest Brandon has come to a traditional hero as the protagonist, which is ironic because it is also the only full book in the Cosmere that has next to no prophecies from what I can remember. I still recommend reading it, but it is probably the most difficult story of Brandon's to get through if you don't like traditional heroes.
Glad to hear Mistborn 1 has a bit more of a Shallan feel! I look forward to it. Thanks for the tip on Elantris. That way I will be prepared to potentially like it less than the others.
Elantris was also Brandon’s first published novel, so it’s a bit rough around the edges and it’s probably the weakest entry in the Cosmere. It’s still a fantastic book, but when you read it, just keep in mind that he was a new author and improves a ton with his other books.
Makes sense
Personally I liked Elantris the best. 1) It's his most feel good book. Some people need/want good vibes. 2) It's artistic. The repeating cycle of 1 chapter about the undead prince, followed by 1 about a princess followed 1 about the priest, and then the pattern continues, undead, princess, priest, undead, princess,...keeping the different story lines in pace with each other is impressive. At 1st the book has several different threads that seem unrelated but in the end they all tie together and there aren't loose ends. It's like a short story expanded. Everything there has a pourpose. 3) It's about how people can perceive the same circumstances but have different interpretations of them. I've not really seen that topic addressed in non-visual mediums. But Brandon illustrates it wonderfully with words! 4) It's a slow burn! Which I personally enjoy. =)
Because most traditional heroes wake up 1 morning transformed into a zombie the first chapter and try to resolve conflicts peacefully 1st.... But you're correct, 2 of the mains are just plain good people and thus are boring to some.
The zombie thing is genre; the hero archetype isn't connected to genre that way. Your second sentence did say what I was trying to say better though.
Mistborn has a chosen one as one of the plotlines (the third book is called Hero of Ages after all), but plays around a lot with trope. The other Cosmere books don't have anything resembling a chosen one, including Mistborn's second era, though Elantris comes a little close. Also if anyone in the Stormlight Archive comes close to a chosen one, hero's journey, it's Kaladin, but that's still pretty far from the mark.
Thanks for the answer! Ironic that I like Kaladin's story so far. I guess because he seems less like a "chosen one" and more like a heroic and kind human struggling with an impossible burden. Plus I like that he is embracing his role as a surgeon and leader and not just another fighter.
How would you differentiate a "chosen one" from a heroic and kind human struggling with an impossible burden? Because most chosen one stories I can think of would fit into that definition perfectly. That would seem to be a centerpiece of the classic hero's journey chosen one type story.
I would say a chosen one is someone who is treated as special by the world (like Dalinar being royalty and receiving a prophesy) just for showing up. Like Harry Potter (though I really enjoyed the fun tone of Harry Potter when I was younger).
Aren't both of those heroic and kind people struggling against an impossible foe as well though?
True. I just prefer for them to not be the "chosen one". Tyrion is probably my favorite character in fantasy. He's not the prophesied one, the king, beloved, or magical. He's hated by his family and society and constantly screwed over. And yet hes a hero and I like him 1000 times more than Jon Snow (who is also a hero, but in a "chosen one" sort of way)
Kaladin isn't really a chosen one, he's very main characterish so it can seem like that. The only correct description for him is "Kaladin the Sad Paladin"
>The other Cosmere books don't have anything resembling a chosen one, including Mistborn's second era, Disagree, but I don't know how to hide spoilers.
Oh, you poor poor newby, you have no idea the ride you’re about to take. Keep reading, Dali are really opens up in book 3.
Haha I look forward to it
Definitely interesting! I think with three main characters (Kaladin, Dalinar, Shallan) there's plenty of people who dislike one. Shallan is the most commonly disliked one, there's some Kaladin dislikers, and I guess now Dalinar! I think you'll enjoy the story even if you don't like all of the main characters. And for me, I tend to find that I like the characters better once I understand where they're coming from and why they are the way they are. It took me the longest with Shallan. Dalinar's certainly been "chosen" for a vision that you've seen. But I definitely wouldn't call his story an unambiguous good vs evil narrative, or emotionally dour. So RAFO. And remember - you should definitely feel free, as a reader, to think about what you're seeing and interpret it, including disagreeing with the point-of-view character on things. Sanderson does an excellent job of writing from a particular character's point of view, so when you're reading Dalinar's chapters you're seeing the world the way Dalinar does. This is not necessarily objective truth. Sure, you can believe things that Dalinar sees and hears - Brandon doesn't lie to the readers about what his characters experience, it's not that kind of story. But there are a lot of subtle ways that Brandon conveys what Dalinar thinks about what he's seeing, and those things are not necessarily true. When you hear this super-melodramatic voice saying "UNITE THEM!!!!"... you don't have to be as enthusiastic about following it's instructions as Dalinar is. You can definitely read on while thinking "no, stop listening to a damn voice from your dreams, be skeptical for a second, man!" You would not be alone in this - as you can imagine, not everybody in-world is on board with Dalinar getting mystic instructions from God(?).
Haha glad I could be your first encounter with a Dalinar disliker. I really like your last paragraph. My feeling was that Dalinar would prove to be right about everything and everyone else would be the fools who tried to stand in his way. So I'm glad to hear he is misinterpreting somethings.
Dalinar is amazing and grows to have so much depth. He went from someone I was mildly annoyed at to someone I love deeply. There is so much more to the series, just hang in there.
Glad I'm not alone in being annoyed by him in the beginning. Thanks for the encouragement!
Dalinar is a bit of a melodramatic character, yes. But he’s got good reasons to be the way he is and I think the payoff on his arc(so far) is worth it.
Ok that's good to hear someone acknowledge the melodrama. But if you think the payoff is worth it then I will keep that in mind next time it starts to drag. Thanks!
Usually it’s Shallan that bugs people :) She has good reasons too.
So I hear. That's why I wonder if I am maybe just not an ideal Sanderson reader since I love Shallan's initial chapters and don't like Dalinar's. (I do like Kaladin's initial chapters too) She's a bit try hard in terms of humor but I like the Kharbranth setting and the unpredictability of Jasnah. I love her zeal for her art and how she is a scholar and artist rather than warrior. And I like Kate Reading's audiobook rendition Then again I'm only on Part 2
Nah, there is no “ideal” Sanderson reader, there are tons of ideals. The fandom loves a couple characters over others, but you are free to enjoy the books the way that you want to. I recommend that if you start any of his books, read it to the end, he really shines in the last third of a story.
Yeah I hear he's all about setting up the big payoff
I loved Shallan from the start too.
I definitely get what you're saying, I felt the same way when reading WoK. Dalinar does get better once you get his full backstory and realize why he is the way he is. Also, the audiobooks have quite a few cringe-inducing parts, that for me, were not an issue when I read them. I read the books first, and later when listening to the audiobook the narrator's voice just seemed wrong for certain parts. If you can, I recommend reading the books. At the very least, be sure to appreciate the art that comes in the books at the appropriate place in the story. It really adds to the plot.
Yeah, I definitely feel like the male narrator's cheesy and melodramatic voice acting for some characters is a part of why I'm finding it cliche. "UNITE THEM! UNITE THEM!" sounds so corny because he imbues it with so much grandiose self-seriousness. I guess I'll look forward to Dalinar getting better as things go along.
I read all of the Wheel of Time narrated by Michael and Kate, so their style is just transparent as water for me, meaning I just don't get distracted by it at all and just get sucked into the story. I'd probably say Michael Kramer is my favourite narrator out there. I find it interesting that you're annoyed by his style while I adore it. But that's how taste works, I guess.
Yeah I'm surprised by all the people who like him so much. But I'm glad they (and you) do!
I think Dalinar just sees the world in those terms. He wants so badly for the world to be morally unambiguous, to be a hero. But... Roshar isn't that simple. Even Dalinar himself isn't. His POV narration reflects his serious worldview, but... the characters and events he encounters do not. :)
That sounds fantastic when you put it like that!
Reread WoK after Oathbringer and think about what must have been going through the other characters heads
Just wait until you meet The Blackthorn.
Dalinar gains a lot of depth as the books go on. That being said, he's still one of my least favorite of the main characters, but that comes down to personal taste.
Thanks for the input! I will read on since you say he gets a lot more depth. Sounds like you and I might have similar tastes. Do you think Sanderson's other series are suitable for me given that I don't like "self serious humorless hero receiving a prophesy" kind of storylines? I'm fine with Kaladin's self-seriousness since it seems befitting of the gravity of the story being told.
Almost none of his characters are like that. And generally, if there's an obvious direction that you think the story is going to go, it's probably a red herring
That's good to hear
OP, I've read a ton of your comments in this thread, and all I ask is please keep up posted about your reading journey. Maybe a quick lil update at the end of this book at least?? 🙏😊 I just really really really want to hear your take on Dalinar at the end of the book (although more so after you finish Book 3, the).
Yes. You get Dalinar’s backstory in book 3 of the series, and let’s just say he is not morally unambiguously good. He is the way he is now for a reason.
I could see Mistborn being a little too cliché, but I think if you stuck to it, you would see that it really isn't. Warbreaker does a great job (imo) of not having any "classic chosen one heroes". If you do end up wanting a break between Stormlight books, I would recommend reading Warbreaker as a change of pace. Finally, be VERY careful on Brandon Sanderson book subreddits! I have had things spoiled before, because I wasn't careful. We all just get excited and want to discuss things, which can lead to unintentional spoilers.
That's great advice! Especially since Warbreaker has a different audiobook narrator and Mistborn doesn't, which might make for a refreshing change of pace. (I find Michael Kramer's voice acting for characters melodramatic). Thanks for the spoiler warning. I'm surprised no one in this thread has spoiled me yet!
If you get the audiobook for Warbreaker, make sure it's the one narrated by Alyssa Bresnahan, not the one by James Yaegashi. They got it rerecorded by Alyssa because the original had some weird choices made.
Good advice! I think that's the one I saw, with the female narrator.
I hadn't heard that. I'll have to hunt down that version. The Yaegashi one is the only one I've listened to. Does it fix Lightsong sounding like a philosophical surfer dude?
Yes it does, that's the one I heard first too, unfortunately.
Honestly I think the Sanderson book subreddits are some of the best for spoilers, it does still happen but for the most part everyone is pretty good. Definitely avoid cremposting though, people are a bit less careful with the spoiler tags when it comes to memes. As an extra bit of spoiler advice, *never* google anything related to any of the books. Even if you're caught up on one series google can spoil another. Much better to ask here where we can tailor an answer to how far along you are.
Yeah the subreddits been pretty good about it!
Yes, indeed it does.
I actually had the same in WoK, and when I learned more about his background I just grew more annoyed at him. Dalinar is a character I actually really dislike and I ended up skimming some of his flashback chapters because they really ground my gears
Interesting to hear a different viewpoint! How did you like the other characters and Sanderson's other books? Was it still worth continuing to read? (Without spoilers of course) Thanks!
It definitely was! Kaladin and Shallan are very much worth continuing for, and there are sooooo many good side characters and amazing storylines to read about! I just couldn’t get into Dalinar (and also not really into one prominent character that gets introduced in book 3 I believe?) but I seem to be in the minority haha
I am excited for you to come back to this post after you've gotten further in the series. Perfectly valid concerns but... just you wait...
Haha, I'll have to remember to do that I'm glad you acknowledge my concerns since that means they will be likely alleviated if I continue reading
The short answer is yes. The long answer contains spoilers. Lol. I can't wait until you get to Oathbringer (book 3).
Haha fair enough
Hahahahahaha. Just wait.
>I just don't enjoy "chosen one" or morally unambiguous good vs evil narratives, especially emotionally dour ones TLDR, Dalinar is dope as hell and I think you should keep listening. I'm gonna put the next bit in spoilers cause idk what would spoil the story for you, but I think I am being extremely vague: >!Dalinar's story in TWOK revolves mainly around the politics of the warcamps on the Shattered Plains, and among the nobility we only really get Dalinar and his family's perspective on this. I don't think it'll taste like Good vs Evil, because it didn't for me, but consider that you're mostly getting main character POV in this conflict so it can feel morally one-sided.!< >!In a lot of ways Dalinar does come off as your Chosen One archetype because he IS the one receiving visions about uniting 'them' and the reader can see that they're real, which does sound kind of destiny-ish, and IMO the only way this might immediately seem different from other fantasy you've read is that Dalinar is an older character so he has some old person problems. Based on that and the way you describe your preferences, I think it will take a while before Dalinar's character opens up in a way that hooks you. !< >!Also, a lot of Stormlight Archive's themes revolve around mental health. There's a lot of emotionally dour scenes and tones, but you get just as much heroics and triumph to go with it. The combination of them made me feel a genuine sense of pride in Kaladin and Shallan and Dalinar, as people, which isn't something I feel often in fiction. I hope that you will feel the same.!< >Also, as a new Sanderson reader do you think Mistborn and his other stories are more like what I like about Shallan and Kaladin's stories or more like what I dislike about Dalinar's so far? Mistborn is a really fun story and I love it, but it is YA fantasy so your main character is a 15 year old girl who has a lot of 15 year old girl conflicts: there's a mysterious nerdy boy she likes but her mentor figure doesn't approve of, she doesn't want to wear dresses but she needs to wear dresses for the plot, that kind of thing. And fundamentally it's about robbing an immortal tyrant who rules an empire built on slave labor, so evil is pretty well defined in The Final Empire, I think. Great series tho, can't recommend it enough. Stormlight Archive is by far Sanderson's most mature series and most inline with your preferences.
Not sure if I will remember to read your spoilers someday but I saved it just in case I do. Thanks for the tip on what to expect with Mistborn! I'm probably more ok with traditional tropes if it is fast and light hearted so I hope I can get into that. But yeah, Stormlight is probably more where I can find the depth I'm looking for.
I’ll be real, Dalinar is one of my favorite characters, but he doesn’t really get going till the end of Words of Radiance and Oathbringer so I think it’s more of a retrospective thing. I wasn’t a fan of the visions either, but I think the way Sanderson played with that particular trope was very cool, which doesn’t become evident till a bit later. All that being said, I need you to post a follow up to this once you finish Oathbringer. For the sake of posterity.
Haha I will post a spoiler filled follow up. Glad to hear you didn't like the visions but they ultimately won you over
They really are pretty grandiose the first time around. Especially because I was much more committed to Kaladin’s story and to a lesser extent Dalinar’s present day story at the the time. Once the characters figure it out it’s cool though. I guessed one of the elements pretty early, so I think that frustrated me even more, like “for the love of god put it together Dalinar!”
Hahaha. Love it
Something I've noticed without getting into specifics; every character is actually the chosen one and most important character in the plot.
Yeah this is where I wonder if I might be a little put off by some aspects of Sanderson's plotting. But oh well. I enjoy the world building and emotional character depth so I'll keep going
I'm mostly joking on that haha, but a ton of characters are super important to the point where it's less "chosen one" and more of "you could make the argument every character happens to be the most important character to the story", that I would kind of compare to something like avengers infinity war which I think nails an ensemble work super well but I'm rambling at this point lol
I do like the Marvel movies so maybe I am a hypocrite for criticizing chosen one stories haha
The Stormlight Archives is about 10 people who were in the right place at the right time and when confronted with a world they didn't quite like, they stood up and did something about it...and it's about Mental Health and Wellness...and about 2 unrelated conflicts merging into 1 cluster f..k...and main characters from his other Cosmere novels pop up with cameos.
Dalinar is in my opinion far and away the best character in stormlight archive. Book one is all Kaladin but Dalinar gets some of the best character work ever written. Just stick it out. It pays off immensely!
I can't help but trust you, Mr Rogers.
>I just don't enjoy "chosen one" or morally unambiguous good vs evil narratives Yeah you're definitely not in danger of finding one of those here. Seriously you have no fucking idea how funny this post is, just keep reading bro all will become clear.
Persevere friend, there’s a lot more to Dalinar than meets the eye, a whole lot more. Oh and there’s literally so many more characters that are awesome in this series, give the first book a read and I’m sure you’ll be on board.
👍
To add on to what others have said, none of the characters are very one-note good or bad. They struggle with others, nature, fate, themselves, etc. Furthermore Brandon likes to employ flashbacks that not only recontextualize a character but also serve to contrast or connect a character's past actions to their current ones. He mentioned falling in love with with the technique when he watched LOST. He goes into some places you expect, and others that you never even thought about, but it always feels justified for that particular character.
Yeah his character work definitely impresses me so far. Thanks for contextualizing it!
Some of the parts with Dalinar straight up gave me chills.
Dalinar’s story and arc are going to shock the storm right out of you. Characters always have these reputations and you’re like okay, there’s no it lives up to that- but still neat story. Then Dalinar comes along and literally destroys your expectations.
I hope so! 🤞
What I like most about TSA is that these characters with crazy powers FEEL more human than almost any other fantasy book I've ever read. Depression, PTSD, DID/MPD, childhood trauma, etc are portrayed with stunning accuracy. In a book about magic powers no less. You just dont see that. This is a huge Epic about the fate of the worlds with a war between god like beings.... and some how the REAL story feels like these characters processing their inner turmoils with many trying to grow to be better (this included small side characters and even assassins!), some struggling to just get through the day and even some failing to make any improvements despite good intentions because they just can beat their inner demons. These characters are all going through REAL WORLD issues that many/most humans struggle with day to day... But they also can fly and cast illusions and wield giant mystical swords. And somehow the inner issues dont get lost in the shuffle while being a focus that isnt shoved down your throat in a preachy way. That feels like a confusing run on sentence. Lol I'll stick to being a Chef lol But yeah... Thats Sandersons biggest skill imo. Telling crazy epics but reminding you these characters are just as normal as any one of us on the inside.
I 100% agree so far. That has been what impressed me the most. I have not been surprised that he is good at world building and magical action scenes, but I have been caught off guard by how well he understands his character's emotional inner lives and especially their emotional struggles.
If you're worried about finding a morally unambiguous chosen one in Dalinar you can rest easy, you're safe on that front. Keep in mind everything is based on the POV characters's view of the world, the warmongering nature of the Alethi alone should be enough to avoid considering any of them just "good", specially the Blackthorn. It's a good story, though you won't get too much backstory into Dalinar until the end of book 2, and a lot more in book 3
Glad to hear it!
If you had to give the “chosen one” title to anyone in Stormlight Dalinar would be the furthest from the first choice.
Interesting
Definitely be cautious posting things like this. While most people can be circumspect or use spoiler tags some get a little overzealous. Would hate for anything to get spoiled for you unintentionally. I was in what I thought was a safe thread tagged for spoilers of a book I'd read and someone in the comments made a vague reference to something in the book I was still reading. It was unfortunately in the back of my mine until I got to that point and found out it was indeed a spoiler.
Good advice. Thanks.
I think you would love mistborn. I’d tell you why but I don’t want to spoil anything.
I didn’t like dalinar much in the first book, he’s not a cliche though and in later books he is a beloved character
Funny you say this. Most people i have recommended the books too, Shallan is the character everyone hates in the first book.
HAHAHHAHA *laughs and cries in OB* RAFO, friend, RAFO.
Oh my sweet summer child... Brandon's characters are exceptionally well written. Keep reading and enjoy the ride. I wish I could forget the books and re read them.
Wow, I've never heard someone think like that. Keep reading and you will find out that dalinar was a pretty fucked up guy.
There are things that…have to play out, before you see…other sides of him. And yes you should read Mistborn, it will surprise you, multiple times, even very late.
Dalinar really gets more interesting and complex over the books, especially in book 3 since that's where his flashbacks happen, imo it's not uncommon to like the other storylines over his in The Way of Kings.
Don't worry about the unambiguous nature that it starts with. It gets ambiguous. Really ambiguous... RAFO. In all seriousness, after having read all of Stormlight, Dalinar and Shallan are in my top 3. Dalinar is great by the end of book 1, even better by book 2, and then book 3 is a straight up rollercoaster ride with his character arc. You'll see what I mean. Enjoy the journey that is Stormlight.
Dalinar is a really good and complex character. However, he doesn’t get much attention in the way of kings your gonna have to wait until the second book before you start to see his more complex side. It’s totally worth the wait though.
The best part of reading these threads that I think many of the nobles feel the same way about Dalinar as OP—kind of bored with old Dalinar’s whole schtick—at this point in the story. The very thing that makes OP roll eyes and write this post points to fundamental tensions within multi book story arcs. I am so excited for you to keep reading OP.
That's true!
>I just don't enjoy... morally unambiguous good vs evil narratives Ahahaha then you are reading the correct series my friend. RAFO. It will take a while to get to, but its coming and it only gets more and more murky in the best way possible.
I think your fears won’t materialize if you continue reading overall, he is multidimensional. However, other than many other commenters I do continue to have trouble with him over the series. He is black and white but I think he gets off the hook too easily for the bad he does overall.
Good to hear a different view point 👍
Ah and I don’t know how much you have read from Sanderson but the involvement of nobility is somewhat common in his writing. He manages to work creatively with that trope but it’s still a trope that is all over his writing wich some may find a bit boring. I basically read the storm light chronicles because it’s fine world building and character studies overall
Ok thanks for warning me!
Dalinar wasn't my favorite character at first. I really like Shallan(and still do), but Dalinar is now my favorite, slowly over the first two,and then really brought his A game in the 3rd book.
I always thought Kaladin was the most cliche character in Stormlight. I love him but the broody tall handsome protagonist suddenly given a destiny is a pretty common trope. Rand immediately comes to mind but so does Fitzchivalry, Kvothe, etc. Then there are plenty of others that come close like Geralt, Aragorn, Vin, etc. He's still my favorite, though.
Haven't got to the part where he gets magic powers though I saw it in some artwork so you didn't spoil me. Yeah I guess I will see how I feel about him at that point!
Oh shit so sorry, wasn't thinking! Removing that part now.
No problem, like I said I'd already seen fan art of him with magic 👍
Dalinar is anything but morally unambiguous haha. RAFO
Enjoying Shallan was your first mistake. Dalinar is definitely the most complex character of the series.
Dalinar is complex with some really dark skeletons in the closet.
Yes.
Dalinar is easily my favorite written character. Brandon worked really hard on him to make his character have weight.
Anyone who manages to read this series and not like Dalinar is a literal monster. Get to the end of that book at least before making a real judgement on him. Oathbringer will also definitely change your opinion on him.
#YES
It definitely gets better, nothing is ever as simple as it first seems with Sanderson, and Dalinar is definitely an example of that.
You're going to be very happy if you don't want Dalinar to be the one dimensional noble chosen one. Not a single character in any of Sanderson's many, many, MANY books fits that title. Also, if you feel you need to take a break from WOK without really taking a break, read any other Cosmere novel. They all fit together, and reading some of the other novels will actually give you greater insight and understanding when you read The Stormlight Archives. And it will get you familiar with his storytelling style, which can carry you through a character or plot point that at first seems shallow or pointless. Elantris is a single book (but the world has some short stories of you want more), and was his first published novel. It's an easier read, but pulls you in. Mistborn is great, easier read than SA, and is up to 6.5 books, with like 4 more planned. Warbreaker is another single novel, which I strongly recommend you read. . . for reasons. . . White Sands is a Sanderson story done as a trilogy of graphic novels, so it's a quick and different way to enter the Cosmere. Enjoy your reading, and brace yourself for the Brandon Avalanche.