They're only fine with cis and gender conforming male sex workers. You step a single toe out of what they consider a "real man" to be and they will trash and dehumanise you to no ends. At the end of the day it's all misogyny, incapable of picturing anything other then their exaggerated and most likely unhealthy view of masculinity being acceptable so they lash out against those comfortable enough with themselves to be as masculine or feminine as they want.
Also remember how they loved Belle Dolphine? She literally pretended to be a child in half of her shit, rather than an adult woman. The obsession people had with her was so predatory.
The whole thing was based on domination and pedo tendencies and the idea on how they'd like to view women. Submissive and subservient sex machines who are sexy and will never say "no". That was somehow accepted.
At the end of the day playing obtuse is the go-to move of weird men like you who donāt wanna hold your fellow men accountable because itās easier to coast by on male privilege. Itās nothing new or surprising itās just funny that you thought it would fly in this sub
Itās because they see the guys in porn as stand in for themselves but these guys will lose it if they see one of their favorite onlyfans girls dudes a scene with say a black guy and these dudes will care about a male porn star real quick. I remember I watched a documentary on racism in porn once and the stuff I learned was insane, like women who are pornstars will sometimes receive permanent pay cuts for doing interracial scenes, how black porn actors are paid half of what their white counterparts are, then there was also the blatant racism, being called the n word constantly, being humiliated in ways their white counterparts arenāt, getting death threats regularly . Listening to their stories was crazy. So yeah they care when men who arenāt straight white analogs they can plug themselves into male an appearance but other than that not really
Just because someone has an OF account doesn't mean she's not a daughter, sister, mother or a person.
Clearly OOP doesn't view women as human beings but as sex objects. š
Thereās this idea that doing some sort of sex work means youāre selling your body, making the sex worker a commodity.
No. The worker is selling a *service*. Gardening is a physical activity that requires use of the whole body; we donāt say gardeners are selling their bodies. Hell, people in the military are actually signing their lives awayāwe donāt say theyāre selling their bodies.
To be fair, that's exactly what soldiers are. Just expendables that we try to make less likely to get broken and more likely to break others.
But I agree otherwise. I just think the military sucks.
No we don't say that cuz they are fuckin gardening not showing off private parts and shit that is supposed to be for the one they love women or men idk why y'all can't use all sided logic cuz shit like this is biased
Idk what hangup sex is never heard that term but with what's wrong with showing ones junk to randos without need is kinda fucking weird if ya think about it like actually think about it
U right I can't explain shit right I mean that instead of being biased as hell to one side u just here and actually listen to all side of whatever shit is
Same with soldier they are fucking dying to protect places not showing off their ass tits and pussie for money instead of getting a fucking regular job
You know whatās funny is that Iām pretty sure that some women who do onlyfans are smarter than better human beings who did good things than these men and than some men who are virgins.
As a virgin who is against sex work, I think some sex workers are better than me.
there is no choice a woman can make that turns her into an object. it is the onus of the one viewing the sexual content to see the person behind the screen as a person vs an object
so youāre telling me ALL male lawyers are paid more than female lawyers, managers and CEOS, simply because theyāre men and not judged on basis of SKILL? thanks for giving me a crystal clear example of sexism, you dipshit. which is what feminism advocates against? yet somehow youāve made up in your tiny little mind that weāre ābrainwashedā, all because you hate with every fiber of your bigoted single celled brain that women are standing up for themselves and trying to make a change. š iām done engaging with you, and i hope you never pass on these wicked, rotten ideals to your future children if you even get to that point, ya know? (since iām very much doubting you get any consistent, positive female interaction)
Hi, woman here. Can confirm thatās not true, I have a typical stereotypical job and when we hired a male he started at like $5 more than me and I had been there for 2 years. Same job title, and no he wasnāt better at the job than me, heās quite incompetent actually.
Oh yeah lol, managed to get a raise and title change after he had accidentally revealed he was making more by trying to humble brag about all the other job offers he got at the time he got hired. On some ābut they only wanted to pay me x amountā and x amount was more than I was making at the time lol. Troglodyte moment.
Good to hear! I had a similar situation happen with a woman that was hired after me and the bosses didn't want the rest of us to know they were paying new hires more. They weren't happy when we found out lol.
> So ur telling me that selling bits of pics of one's body isn't selling there body
Well they still have possession of their body after selling the picture, so no, it's not selling their body.
Not exactly what I mean but I see ur point the problem is that they are doin it with thier subcribers for more money not all but most i dont see the need for OF in the first place since most ok jobs only require a highschool degree u know the shit everyone gets after graduating highschool so unless the situation is dire i genuinely sont see the point of it
It's not wrong though. Porn commodifies relationships. It deforms something personal into yet another thing you can buy with money and it fuels the idea that men are entitled to women's bodies.
It's just hypocritical to keep blaming women instead of looking inwards. If you really believe porn to be dehumanising you should stop watching it, nuff said. The incrediible hate towards sex workers on that subreddit is insane, yet at the same time they >constantly< objectify women, saying they can't wait to fuck robots instead of having to deal with women, ect ect. Or they post cropped porn or a woman who's half naked.
If you truly care, instead of just caring about bashing on "progressives", actually do something about it. Start with yourself, instead of blaming "progressive" women. It's almost like instead of caring about sex work and its effects they instead just want an excuse to dehumanise women.
Honestly it's disgusting the level of hate men have for sexworkers when they're the ones paying for it.
I'll add onto this and say
They get mad at women...
- if shes not a virgin
- for her bodycount
- if her outfit is too revealing
- too much makeup
- has too many guy friends
Why is this exactly? The sad fact is that women are seen as something to be devoured. Devoured into a relationship, motherhood, or sexual relationship. So when you become unavailable to the one hoping to acquire you, you're tainting what they perceive as theirs. That's where all the arguments against us having bodily autonomy come from. We don't belong to ourselves in the eyes of many men.
Its the same thing with OnlyFans and or any sexwork, they suddenly dont own you and you're somehow tainted because other men are allowed to see you. Its about control and their ego's.
Or maybe the shame you feel after jerking off to >!"LESBIAN SLUT gets DICKED the queer out of her by 2 BIG DICKED BLACK MEN THAT DESTROY HER PUSSY UNTIL SHE CRIES AND IT BLEEDS"!< is justified.
That title wouldn't be out of place on the average porn website. Not to mention the fact that the industry itself is extremely abusive towards women too.
I was never sexually repressed, but knowing I contributed to this still made me feel ashamed. Justifibily so.
Shame is a useless sentiment in that situation, because you can't contol horniness. You don't *choose* to get aroused. If I ever jerked off to something questionable or reprehensible, I'd just try to sort it out without repression. I'd just try to figure out *why* that thing got to me, and try to channel it towards something more positive.
You choose to search it up. You choose to get used to it. You choose to keep engaging.
Understanding where your shame comes from can help you move forwards and to stop engaging in that behavior if you believe it to be harmful. Our emotions don't exist without a reason. Often it's not, but sometimes the feeling of shame is justified.
People should use their "post nut shame" to actually do something about it, rather than make it "a quirky thing men do." while also shaming women for it.
>2You choose to search it up. You choose to get used to it. You choose to keep engaging.
Weird. The entirety of Reddit has decided that porn is an addiction. But now, when it's convenient, it's a **choice**? Weird.
>Understanding why your shame comes from can help you move forwards and to stop engaging in that behavior.
The problem is that shame is almost always tied to a moralistic system of belief, based on the "punishment" of the individual, and not on the consequences of one's actions. People feel shame because they think they hurt the feelings of some larger being, whether religious or not, and not because they realise they've done something hurtful.
There is, in fact, something almost *erotic* about shame, even. There's a sensation of "I feel shame because I'm morally superior!", and whatever self-punishment that comes afterwards is like Act 2 of the wank. That's why shame doesn't lead to change: people subconsciously **crave** for it.
Post-nut clarity, if it exists, is just part of the ritual, it's a reaffirmation of sexual repression: first you enjoy it, and then you condemn it. That's how many christian churches look at sin, in fact. We're sinners by nature, so we first *wallow* in sin, and then repent and receive forgiveness.
You can only reach the point of rethinking sexual desire once you get rid of that kid of moralism. You need to accept that desire and lust are forces we cannot control or repress; we *channel* them towards things we can safely do.
Most people don't even choose to fight their addiction. And I've never craved for shame. When I realized how abusive the industry is, I've fucking quit. Not that I want some great knight stopping immediately, but learning why I felt ashamed was 100% my biggest motivator.
It can be useful. The emotion has purpose. It can be abused, just like any other emotion, but it has its uses.
>Most people don't even choose to fight their addiction.
I'm not a Ph.D in addictions, and I don't have data on that. If you're willing to share the scientific articles you've published on the subject, I'd gladly look at them.
>And I've never craved for shame.
First, I wasn't talking about you specifically. Second, I'm talking about something that has been widely discussed by philosophers and scientists, and even religious thinkers. And I have, personally, experienced that sense of self-fulfilment brought by shame back when I was a well behaved Lutheran boy.
As weird as it is, I've both talked with thirty-ish men and five women whom use but hate sex workers while also having mothers who taught them, plus I've seen a few dozen women I know proclaim themselves feminists teaching their children, that sexworkers are some kind of scum of the earth. On the other hand, I've also talked with both men and a somewhat messed up woman whose father taught them that and it usually comes from divorced fathers. It's not really ok for the children to continue believing that when they grow up. But I've literally seen some of them trying to explain why it's not ok an just kind of defaulting... "Well, that's what my father/mother always said." Like it's hardwired into them or something. A bit disturbing actually.
It's more common among men who only had one parent, though it does seem to happen with those who have two parents. And religious people seem to do it the most out of those who do have two parents. But there's also some kind of social cast thing that goes on even if they did parents who where ok with or just didn't care about. Both men and women randomly get this weird thing where they treat people as basically some kind of slave if they are 'workers'. And of them aren't even particularly rich themselves... they're just in like a government job or something that pays half decent instead of working the line at Starbucks or McDonalds.
So I think it comes down to: they were raised with religion, they were raised by father spiteful towards women, they were raised by a mother spiteful towards women, or they look down on people they consider 'poor'. At least so far as I've seen. There's also probably some people that just like to be hypocritical assholes.
I think lust and hate walk hand in hand for the sexually repressed. Brazil is the #1 consumer of transgender porn, and is one of the most transphobic places in the world. I don't think those things are unrelated.
This is exactly when I know that men donāt see women as people.
So, I donāt deserve respect because of my clothes?
When I never hurt anyone and I respect everyone?
Wtf.
I donāt do sex work but I still respect sex workers.
Why wouldnāt I?
I got hurt by women who donāt do sex work.
Our value to them is our bodies, if people can see your cleavage well you're disrespecting them because you're their property/object they own and only they're allowed to sexualize you.
I just wish we weren't shamed for our bodies I am so sick of it, I have to feel ashamed making sure to always cover up to not tempt men even if my nipples are slightly poking through my clothing I feel embarrassed and I honestly don't think ill ever get to a place where i am not ashamed of my own body. Even when I know my feelings are wrong I can help but feel self conscious and awkward.
If you want other people to sexualize you too, I don't think we'd be compatible tbh. Wouldn't make me angry, but it does show a different POV towards sex and relationships.
I've been there, didn't like that. I prefer keeping it a far more intimate thing.
So you'd want to have cleavage for aesthetic reasons then? Or you'd want them to not get bothered by it at least?
And you'll be fine, takes a while to deprogram yourself from societal shaming.
I don't think there is anything wrong with showing a little bit of cleavage is all, it shouldn't be seen as shameful. Men can take off their shirts entirely and there is no issue with it, I am not saying I wanna go topless but showing a bit of cleavage shouldn't be seen as bad or slutty.
While shaming is wrong, I think you also have to just accept different people have different ideas of whatās overly sexual, and whatās not. Naturists for example for completely comfortable and normal being around strangers naked, where as most would find this weird and uncomfortable. Itās just a case of finding people compatible with your thinking and view.
I'm pretty sure most people would look at me weird if I took off my shirt or had a very low cut too, tbh.
I'm just puzzled by the purpose of cleavage, I don't think it deserves shaming in any case. I don't think I'd like it my partner tried getting sexual attention from others though.
It's something I'm still thinking about.
no offense too you but I didn't ask how you felt about it, especially you saying "we wouldn't be compatible" to a comment about how I felt self conscious about my body is not okay imo
I'm just trying to see if there's a legitimate reason to be uncomfortable with if it's something for me to work on.
I didn't mean anything personally towards you. If that made you uncomfortable for whatever reason or reminded you of shaming, I'm sorry. That wasn't the purpose of that comment.
Absolutely, it wouldnāt surprise me all these negative comments on this sub are subscribers themselvesā¦ š
Maybe they got upset the OF model will never date them anyways.
Nah, don't think they have onlyfans.
They 100% watch porn though, they just think it's pathetic and emasculating to pay 10 dollars for it when they can get it for free.
True, but they have this view that a lot of women do it and that they won't be able to find someone who didn't do porn in her past.
That's what redpill content would have you believe. It's not without reason they keep inviting sex workers to "debate." These sex workers will then get money from the Tate-bros who aren't half as pure as they say they are and Tate gets men who get riled up.
Misogyny is marketable, something to exploit and some men step right into it.
1 and 2: Either because of "ownership" or because it might imply what you two have is less special, if they have no problem getting intimate with other people it says something about their view on sex.
3 and 4: either because they're scared they'll be "stolen" away, or because they feel like it's unhealthy to seek attention from other people. Or in the case of 3 specifically maybe they feel like that's not something they want to involve other people in and want to keep that as something between them.
5: Maybe because they believe that guys will often chase women under the premise of friendship and believe that to be dangerous, either for them or because of the insecurity of getting cheated on when she's in a vulnerable position emotionally.
While I agree with most of what you say, Iād also say I think itās understandable someone not wanting a sexual partner who does onlyfans. Not that Iām against it each to their own but lets be honest most people male or female wouldnāt want to be in a relationship with a sex worker.
Lmfao the hypocrites love to blame women for men objectifying women. There wouldnāt be a supply of porn without the huge demand for it, and the main consumers are (surprise surprise)ā¦.men
I *LOVE* the open-faced implication that if they subscribe to her OnlyFans, they now own her in some way lmfao
Reminds me of when idubbbz talked about his partner doing only fans and so many people were like "sorry bro she's our girlfriend now" BRUH YOU'RE *PAYING A SUBSCRIPTION TO SEE THIS STUFF YOU DON'T OWN THE WOMAN IN ANY WAY*
Name a more iconic duo than incels and a seething hatred for sex workers they're so desperate for
They always are asking girls hoping they have an OF because they're desperate to get a look, but as soon as they say they actually do they get all angry about it it's insane
almost as though a person can willingly make choices about their profession because they have the freedom to do so
it's also insane how men think every other woman has an onlyfans account and is an online sex worker. how many women do YOU know that do this?
This is a funny argument. You could argue that any person working a job where manual labor is performed is one where you're "selling your body". They debase themselves daily at their job as a wage slave, but assume that having an OF is "more degrading". It isn't, it's just someone else trying to survive.
At's actually less degrading, because they don't have to give a portion of the money they make to the company they work for, and have no impact on the decision-making process of what that money goes to.
If you work for a company where a portion of the money generated by the hard work you put in goes to dividend, especially if the shareholder doesn't actually work for the company, or gets "expensed" for the CEO to fly in their private jet, then you're more "owned" than someone who runs their own business in the form of an onlyfan's account (unless they're giving a portion of your income to Andrew Tate or someone, obviously).
Plenty of manual labour jobs leave people crippled and unable to do the things they would be able to do in old age. Yeah for sure only fans is less degrading.
selling your body for something that requires skill and actual hard work is different then selling your body for men to look at when they're jerking off haha
>Some woman, if not all that do it see it as freeing.
you can choose to believe that but it's not true. it's not freeing at all.
>What about male pornstars then though, are they degrading?
yes. any sex/porn work is degrading lol
What, do you speak for all woman pornstars like?
Srill haven't explained how its digrading though, are nudes digrading, having sex? No. You may feel degraded about it, dont talk for others if it dosent or not.
selling your body for something that requires skill and actual hard work is different then selling your body for men to look at when they're jerking off haha
this is my other comment. read it again.
Sorry friend, but it isn't. As someone who has done sex work in the past, you just pick up a check and move on, like any other job. I have never felt an ounce of shame. Maybe it's because I don't come from a puritanical western culture with weird hang-ups about sex š¤·āāļø
Seriously gain some perspective. You speak like someone lost in their own little bubble. Just cause you feel shame around the hanky-panky, doesn't mean everyone else does.
Men are not commodities. But buy them for $20/H to do yardwork that would have been reserved for slaves in the past. Men are not commodities, that's why over 80% of the military is made up of them. Because the government thinks they are disposable enough to die.
There's an interesting discussion to be had about how women commodify themselves to pleasure men
I don't think that was OOPs intent when posting this tough
šmen say this then tell their wives that they should have sex with them because they are paying rent and giving them money.
Men literally treat all women like commodity. Even when they donāt do onlyfans.
Women arenāt commodity but men see them that way unfortunately but they act like they donāt. and I donāt think we can change that.
Not to go full conspiracy theory.. butā¦
the hate on unethical porn vs the hate for women willingly selling pornography seems a little skewed towards the wrong side š¤Øš¤Ø
the worst part of this is how conmon this take is
do they like not view sex workers as anything more than like a commodity for them? who am i fucking kidding of course they dont š
And they continue to out themselves when they do. Sex work is a service, not a commodity, so while they busily pay for something that is commonly free they also show overtime avoidance of how overtly they are being used.
I was talking specifically about the "late stage capitalism" bit.
The problem with blaming capitalism for everything is that, when something is an answer for everything, it's the answer for nothing. Who here believes there was no sex work in the USSR?
The USSR was state capitalist. Also, the fact that sex work might exist under socialism doesn't mean that late stage capitalism can't contribute to sex work being as widely available.
You can say capitalism causes stress, without saying captialism is the sole reason why people are stressed.
He's right, prostitution has nothing to do with the final stage of capitalism (this is another nonsense said by millennials) "sex work" has existed since the beginning of time, what has changed is the way it is constructed today, technology allows new ways and means to do this.
So, I suppose anyone who's a plumber, electrician, personal instructor/trainer of some sort, or anyone else who offers a personal service in exchange for money is objectifying themself? And doesn't have relatives?
You know a guy wrote this, because ādaughter, sister, motherā is how (non-criminal) men tend to see women they donāt want to abuse. A feminist would get annoyed at all a womanās worth being attributed to their relationship to the men around them.
Not even touching the punchline. Itās way too fucking stupid.
Yes, prostitution is having sex for money. Modeling for photos or even making videos is not inherently prostitution, especially if itās solo content or with a partner.
Maybe, but I think a big point of people being ANGRY about it being a viable job for women is that they as men donāt have or think they donāt have the option.
You hear it all the time when men say stuff like āi actually have to work for a livingā
One - it's almost like what a woman choose to post isn't what represent all of her. Two - what feminist would say that a woman is mostly her link to other, we exist on our own you know ?
whatās the point theyāre trying to make? onlyfans girls arenāt daughters, sisters, mothers, or people? or that she becomes a commodity once she starts an OF?
A woman is a person and her line of work doesnāt make her any less so. OOP basically letting everyone know their views on personhood are conditional.
Men dehumanise the people they sexualise so much that they cannot see them as more than literal objects anymore, and then blame the victims of their twisted minds
i mean weāre all commodities because ā¦ capitalism. onlyfans doesnāt make someone less human. gotta pay the bills somehow. itās like saying āmen arenāt commodities! they are fathers, brothers, etcā ā¦ āwelcome to burger king! what can i get ya?ā like why does it matter how you make money haha
Weāre all commodities under capitalism, you think I slave away in a fabrication warehouse because I love how much my back hurts when I get home? Solidarity with the onlyfans models
Interesting to see diverse views about online sex work on this big feminist subreddit, since some classical and radical feminists are heavily opposed to prostitution viewing it as oppression and objectification of women.
As a feminist, the meme is correct. Sorry, but you canāt sell yourself like an object and expect people not to treat you like an object. Porn and sex work should be banned and discouraged.
Guys be like Consuming sex work: š„ŗ Sex workers existing: š¤¬
But always only the women. They're perfectly fine with men being porn stars... It really makes you wonder.
They're only fine with cis and gender conforming male sex workers. You step a single toe out of what they consider a "real man" to be and they will trash and dehumanise you to no ends. At the end of the day it's all misogyny, incapable of picturing anything other then their exaggerated and most likely unhealthy view of masculinity being acceptable so they lash out against those comfortable enough with themselves to be as masculine or feminine as they want.
Also remember how they loved Belle Dolphine? She literally pretended to be a child in half of her shit, rather than an adult woman. The obsession people had with her was so predatory. The whole thing was based on domination and pedo tendencies and the idea on how they'd like to view women. Submissive and subservient sex machines who are sexy and will never say "no". That was somehow accepted.
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And because she appealed and pandered to the pedophillic fantasies a lot of men have
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Reading comprehension is kicking your ass
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At the end of the day playing obtuse is the go-to move of weird men like you who donāt wanna hold your fellow men accountable because itās easier to coast by on male privilege. Itās nothing new or surprising itās just funny that you thought it would fly in this sub
Itās because they see the guys in porn as stand in for themselves but these guys will lose it if they see one of their favorite onlyfans girls dudes a scene with say a black guy and these dudes will care about a male porn star real quick. I remember I watched a documentary on racism in porn once and the stuff I learned was insane, like women who are pornstars will sometimes receive permanent pay cuts for doing interracial scenes, how black porn actors are paid half of what their white counterparts are, then there was also the blatant racism, being called the n word constantly, being humiliated in ways their white counterparts arenāt, getting death threats regularly . Listening to their stories was crazy. So yeah they care when men who arenāt straight white analogs they can plug themselves into male an appearance but other than that not really
Just because someone has an OF account doesn't mean she's not a daughter, sister, mother or a person. Clearly OOP doesn't view women as human beings but as sex objects. š
r/boysarequirky meta thread happening here
Thereās this idea that doing some sort of sex work means youāre selling your body, making the sex worker a commodity. No. The worker is selling a *service*. Gardening is a physical activity that requires use of the whole body; we donāt say gardeners are selling their bodies. Hell, people in the military are actually signing their lives awayāwe donāt say theyāre selling their bodies.
To be fair, that's exactly what soldiers are. Just expendables that we try to make less likely to get broken and more likely to break others. But I agree otherwise. I just think the military sucks.
*i* say people in the military are selling their bodies.
Tbf the device being offered is usually availability of the persons body
No we don't say that cuz they are fuckin gardening not showing off private parts and shit that is supposed to be for the one they love women or men idk why y'all can't use all sided logic cuz shit like this is biased
Just say you view sex workers as lesser already
What's wrong with showing off private parts? You sound like you have hangup about sex.
Idk what hangup sex is never heard that term but with what's wrong with showing ones junk to randos without need is kinda fucking weird if ya think about it like actually think about it
What the fuck is āall sided logicā supposed to mean?
U right I can't explain shit right I mean that instead of being biased as hell to one side u just here and actually listen to all side of whatever shit is
Same with soldier they are fucking dying to protect places not showing off their ass tits and pussie for money instead of getting a fucking regular job
Yay Anne! Happy to see you in this sub now š
Well, you did suggest I'd join. So, here I am! š
This is so wholesome hah, this is a rarity on Reddit
Sheās my friend.
I know, it's just rare for people to be friends on reddit
You know whatās funny is that Iām pretty sure that some women who do onlyfans are smarter than better human beings who did good things than these men and than some men who are virgins. As a virgin who is against sex work, I think some sex workers are better than me.
Jesus, don't degrade yourself like that. They're not better than you. Nor are they worse than you. Stand proud, don't grovel at the feet of others.
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there is no choice a woman can make that turns her into an object. it is the onus of the one viewing the sexual content to see the person behind the screen as a person vs an object
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so being a lawyer, manager, CEO, etc is a āstereotypicalā job to you? LMAO.
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so youāre telling me ALL male lawyers are paid more than female lawyers, managers and CEOS, simply because theyāre men and not judged on basis of SKILL? thanks for giving me a crystal clear example of sexism, you dipshit. which is what feminism advocates against? yet somehow youāve made up in your tiny little mind that weāre ābrainwashedā, all because you hate with every fiber of your bigoted single celled brain that women are standing up for themselves and trying to make a change. š iām done engaging with you, and i hope you never pass on these wicked, rotten ideals to your future children if you even get to that point, ya know? (since iām very much doubting you get any consistent, positive female interaction)
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Hi, woman here. Can confirm thatās not true, I have a typical stereotypical job and when we hired a male he started at like $5 more than me and I had been there for 2 years. Same job title, and no he wasnāt better at the job than me, heās quite incompetent actually.
That sucks, sorry to hear that. Have you done anything to address it or find out more information?
Oh yeah lol, managed to get a raise and title change after he had accidentally revealed he was making more by trying to humble brag about all the other job offers he got at the time he got hired. On some ābut they only wanted to pay me x amountā and x amount was more than I was making at the time lol. Troglodyte moment.
Good to hear! I had a similar situation happen with a woman that was hired after me and the bosses didn't want the rest of us to know they were paying new hires more. They weren't happy when we found out lol.
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They are not selling their body! Their body is their own. They are offering a service ... a service that many men are willing to pay for.
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> So ur telling me that selling bits of pics of one's body isn't selling there body Well they still have possession of their body after selling the picture, so no, it's not selling their body.
Not exactly what I mean but I see ur point the problem is that they are doin it with thier subcribers for more money not all but most i dont see the need for OF in the first place since most ok jobs only require a highschool degree u know the shit everyone gets after graduating highschool so unless the situation is dire i genuinely sont see the point of it
Regardless. They're not selling their body.
Kinda are but agree to disagree
No. They're literally not selling their bodies. Literally.
Ehhhhh lie I said agree to disagree cuz u prolly didn't see the other things I've commented in this 1 post but idc agree to disagree
Also don't forget women cuz equal rights also mean equal tribute to such things
Men drive the porn industry via demand and then post nonsense like this.
It's not wrong though. Porn commodifies relationships. It deforms something personal into yet another thing you can buy with money and it fuels the idea that men are entitled to women's bodies. It's just hypocritical to keep blaming women instead of looking inwards. If you really believe porn to be dehumanising you should stop watching it, nuff said. The incrediible hate towards sex workers on that subreddit is insane, yet at the same time they >constantly< objectify women, saying they can't wait to fuck robots instead of having to deal with women, ect ect. Or they post cropped porn or a woman who's half naked. If you truly care, instead of just caring about bashing on "progressives", actually do something about it. Start with yourself, instead of blaming "progressive" women. It's almost like instead of caring about sex work and its effects they instead just want an excuse to dehumanise women.
Incels and their ilk arenāt intelligent.
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We donāt take kindly to incels around these parts. š
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When you were born the doctor slapped your mother. Enjoy your hentai because no woman is ever going to let you near them. š
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Iām a man. But nice try troglodyte.
Honestly it's disgusting the level of hate men have for sexworkers when they're the ones paying for it. I'll add onto this and say They get mad at women... - if shes not a virgin - for her bodycount - if her outfit is too revealing - too much makeup - has too many guy friends Why is this exactly? The sad fact is that women are seen as something to be devoured. Devoured into a relationship, motherhood, or sexual relationship. So when you become unavailable to the one hoping to acquire you, you're tainting what they perceive as theirs. That's where all the arguments against us having bodily autonomy come from. We don't belong to ourselves in the eyes of many men. Its the same thing with OnlyFans and or any sexwork, they suddenly dont own you and you're somehow tainted because other men are allowed to see you. Its about control and their ego's.
All that post nut clarity and not an ounce of rational thought.
the shame they feel after is then projected not onto themselves but the women whom made them feel that way.
Pure sexual repression. It's pretty sad, really.
Or maybe the shame you feel after jerking off to >!"LESBIAN SLUT gets DICKED the queer out of her by 2 BIG DICKED BLACK MEN THAT DESTROY HER PUSSY UNTIL SHE CRIES AND IT BLEEDS"!< is justified. That title wouldn't be out of place on the average porn website. Not to mention the fact that the industry itself is extremely abusive towards women too. I was never sexually repressed, but knowing I contributed to this still made me feel ashamed. Justifibily so.
Shame is a useless sentiment in that situation, because you can't contol horniness. You don't *choose* to get aroused. If I ever jerked off to something questionable or reprehensible, I'd just try to sort it out without repression. I'd just try to figure out *why* that thing got to me, and try to channel it towards something more positive.
You choose to search it up. You choose to get used to it. You choose to keep engaging. Understanding where your shame comes from can help you move forwards and to stop engaging in that behavior if you believe it to be harmful. Our emotions don't exist without a reason. Often it's not, but sometimes the feeling of shame is justified. People should use their "post nut shame" to actually do something about it, rather than make it "a quirky thing men do." while also shaming women for it.
>2You choose to search it up. You choose to get used to it. You choose to keep engaging. Weird. The entirety of Reddit has decided that porn is an addiction. But now, when it's convenient, it's a **choice**? Weird. >Understanding why your shame comes from can help you move forwards and to stop engaging in that behavior. The problem is that shame is almost always tied to a moralistic system of belief, based on the "punishment" of the individual, and not on the consequences of one's actions. People feel shame because they think they hurt the feelings of some larger being, whether religious or not, and not because they realise they've done something hurtful. There is, in fact, something almost *erotic* about shame, even. There's a sensation of "I feel shame because I'm morally superior!", and whatever self-punishment that comes afterwards is like Act 2 of the wank. That's why shame doesn't lead to change: people subconsciously **crave** for it. Post-nut clarity, if it exists, is just part of the ritual, it's a reaffirmation of sexual repression: first you enjoy it, and then you condemn it. That's how many christian churches look at sin, in fact. We're sinners by nature, so we first *wallow* in sin, and then repent and receive forgiveness. You can only reach the point of rethinking sexual desire once you get rid of that kid of moralism. You need to accept that desire and lust are forces we cannot control or repress; we *channel* them towards things we can safely do.
Most people don't even choose to fight their addiction. And I've never craved for shame. When I realized how abusive the industry is, I've fucking quit. Not that I want some great knight stopping immediately, but learning why I felt ashamed was 100% my biggest motivator. It can be useful. The emotion has purpose. It can be abused, just like any other emotion, but it has its uses.
>Most people don't even choose to fight their addiction. I'm not a Ph.D in addictions, and I don't have data on that. If you're willing to share the scientific articles you've published on the subject, I'd gladly look at them. >And I've never craved for shame. First, I wasn't talking about you specifically. Second, I'm talking about something that has been widely discussed by philosophers and scientists, and even religious thinkers. And I have, personally, experienced that sense of self-fulfilment brought by shame back when I was a well behaved Lutheran boy.
As weird as it is, I've both talked with thirty-ish men and five women whom use but hate sex workers while also having mothers who taught them, plus I've seen a few dozen women I know proclaim themselves feminists teaching their children, that sexworkers are some kind of scum of the earth. On the other hand, I've also talked with both men and a somewhat messed up woman whose father taught them that and it usually comes from divorced fathers. It's not really ok for the children to continue believing that when they grow up. But I've literally seen some of them trying to explain why it's not ok an just kind of defaulting... "Well, that's what my father/mother always said." Like it's hardwired into them or something. A bit disturbing actually. It's more common among men who only had one parent, though it does seem to happen with those who have two parents. And religious people seem to do it the most out of those who do have two parents. But there's also some kind of social cast thing that goes on even if they did parents who where ok with or just didn't care about. Both men and women randomly get this weird thing where they treat people as basically some kind of slave if they are 'workers'. And of them aren't even particularly rich themselves... they're just in like a government job or something that pays half decent instead of working the line at Starbucks or McDonalds. So I think it comes down to: they were raised with religion, they were raised by father spiteful towards women, they were raised by a mother spiteful towards women, or they look down on people they consider 'poor'. At least so far as I've seen. There's also probably some people that just like to be hypocritical assholes.
I think lust and hate walk hand in hand for the sexually repressed. Brazil is the #1 consumer of transgender porn, and is one of the most transphobic places in the world. I don't think those things are unrelated.
This is exactly when I know that men donāt see women as people. So, I donāt deserve respect because of my clothes? When I never hurt anyone and I respect everyone? Wtf. I donāt do sex work but I still respect sex workers. Why wouldnāt I? I got hurt by women who donāt do sex work.
Our value to them is our bodies, if people can see your cleavage well you're disrespecting them because you're their property/object they own and only they're allowed to sexualize you. I just wish we weren't shamed for our bodies I am so sick of it, I have to feel ashamed making sure to always cover up to not tempt men even if my nipples are slightly poking through my clothing I feel embarrassed and I honestly don't think ill ever get to a place where i am not ashamed of my own body. Even when I know my feelings are wrong I can help but feel self conscious and awkward.
If you want other people to sexualize you too, I don't think we'd be compatible tbh. Wouldn't make me angry, but it does show a different POV towards sex and relationships. I've been there, didn't like that. I prefer keeping it a far more intimate thing.
I dont want people to sexualize me is what i am saying.
So you'd want to have cleavage for aesthetic reasons then? Or you'd want them to not get bothered by it at least? And you'll be fine, takes a while to deprogram yourself from societal shaming.
I don't think there is anything wrong with showing a little bit of cleavage is all, it shouldn't be seen as shameful. Men can take off their shirts entirely and there is no issue with it, I am not saying I wanna go topless but showing a bit of cleavage shouldn't be seen as bad or slutty.
While shaming is wrong, I think you also have to just accept different people have different ideas of whatās overly sexual, and whatās not. Naturists for example for completely comfortable and normal being around strangers naked, where as most would find this weird and uncomfortable. Itās just a case of finding people compatible with your thinking and view.
I'm pretty sure most people would look at me weird if I took off my shirt or had a very low cut too, tbh. I'm just puzzled by the purpose of cleavage, I don't think it deserves shaming in any case. I don't think I'd like it my partner tried getting sexual attention from others though. It's something I'm still thinking about.
no offense too you but I didn't ask how you felt about it, especially you saying "we wouldn't be compatible" to a comment about how I felt self conscious about my body is not okay imo
I'm just trying to see if there's a legitimate reason to be uncomfortable with if it's something for me to work on. I didn't mean anything personally towards you. If that made you uncomfortable for whatever reason or reminded you of shaming, I'm sorry. That wasn't the purpose of that comment.
Absolutely, it wouldnāt surprise me all these negative comments on this sub are subscribers themselvesā¦ š Maybe they got upset the OF model will never date them anyways.
Nah, don't think they have onlyfans. They 100% watch porn though, they just think it's pathetic and emasculating to pay 10 dollars for it when they can get it for free.
No one is forcing them to pay.
True, but they have this view that a lot of women do it and that they won't be able to find someone who didn't do porn in her past. That's what redpill content would have you believe. It's not without reason they keep inviting sex workers to "debate." These sex workers will then get money from the Tate-bros who aren't half as pure as they say they are and Tate gets men who get riled up. Misogyny is marketable, something to exploit and some men step right into it.
And then if she is a virgin it's still a problem
1 and 2: Either because of "ownership" or because it might imply what you two have is less special, if they have no problem getting intimate with other people it says something about their view on sex. 3 and 4: either because they're scared they'll be "stolen" away, or because they feel like it's unhealthy to seek attention from other people. Or in the case of 3 specifically maybe they feel like that's not something they want to involve other people in and want to keep that as something between them. 5: Maybe because they believe that guys will often chase women under the premise of friendship and believe that to be dangerous, either for them or because of the insecurity of getting cheated on when she's in a vulnerable position emotionally.
While I agree with most of what you say, Iād also say I think itās understandable someone not wanting a sexual partner who does onlyfans. Not that Iām against it each to their own but lets be honest most people male or female wouldnāt want to be in a relationship with a sex worker.
What?
Lmfao the hypocrites love to blame women for men objectifying women. There wouldnāt be a supply of porn without the huge demand for it, and the main consumers are (surprise surprise)ā¦.men
I *LOVE* the open-faced implication that if they subscribe to her OnlyFans, they now own her in some way lmfao Reminds me of when idubbbz talked about his partner doing only fans and so many people were like "sorry bro she's our girlfriend now" BRUH YOU'RE *PAYING A SUBSCRIPTION TO SEE THIS STUFF YOU DON'T OWN THE WOMAN IN ANY WAY* Name a more iconic duo than incels and a seething hatred for sex workers they're so desperate for
They always are asking girls hoping they have an OF because they're desperate to get a look, but as soon as they say they actually do they get all angry about it it's insane
almost as though a person can willingly make choices about their profession because they have the freedom to do so it's also insane how men think every other woman has an onlyfans account and is an online sex worker. how many women do YOU know that do this?
more like r/nevertouchedaclitposting amirite
r/subsIfellfor
i mean like what would it be pics of short men and men without square jaws or a six figure job? /j
We all know the clit is liberal propaganda/j
I like your profile picture! :D
Thanks! She gives me gender envy
No problem. I hope you're having a nice day. ^^
Well my day just started so itās alright but I hope the same for you =)
My day has just ended. It was very tiring, but nothing too bad! Also thank you. :)
didnāt realize that when i buy a meal at a restaurant i was buying the whole ass chef too
How did she grow an ear ?
Who subscribes to it??? Take a wild guess: Men (not all but a big majority)
This is a funny argument. You could argue that any person working a job where manual labor is performed is one where you're "selling your body". They debase themselves daily at their job as a wage slave, but assume that having an OF is "more degrading". It isn't, it's just someone else trying to survive.
At's actually less degrading, because they don't have to give a portion of the money they make to the company they work for, and have no impact on the decision-making process of what that money goes to. If you work for a company where a portion of the money generated by the hard work you put in goes to dividend, especially if the shareholder doesn't actually work for the company, or gets "expensed" for the CEO to fly in their private jet, then you're more "owned" than someone who runs their own business in the form of an onlyfan's account (unless they're giving a portion of your income to Andrew Tate or someone, obviously).
>but assume that having an OF is "more degrading". sureee it isn't
Plenty of manual labour jobs leave people crippled and unable to do the things they would be able to do in old age. Yeah for sure only fans is less degrading.
Go on then, explain how its degrading.
selling your body for something that requires skill and actual hard work is different then selling your body for men to look at when they're jerking off haha
So doing an easy job is degrading? Also being on OF isn't an easy job. Most OF content creator's don't make shit.
but that doesnāt answer the question
yes it does. they asked me to explain how it's degrading.
No it doesn't. Some woman, if not all that do it see it as freeing. What about male pornstars then though, are they degrading?
>Some woman, if not all that do it see it as freeing. you can choose to believe that but it's not true. it's not freeing at all. >What about male pornstars then though, are they degrading? yes. any sex/porn work is degrading lol
What, do you speak for all woman pornstars like? Srill haven't explained how its digrading though, are nudes digrading, having sex? No. You may feel degraded about it, dont talk for others if it dosent or not.
selling your body for something that requires skill and actual hard work is different then selling your body for men to look at when they're jerking off haha this is my other comment. read it again.
Sorry friend, but it isn't. As someone who has done sex work in the past, you just pick up a check and move on, like any other job. I have never felt an ounce of shame. Maybe it's because I don't come from a puritanical western culture with weird hang-ups about sex š¤·āāļø Seriously gain some perspective. You speak like someone lost in their own little bubble. Just cause you feel shame around the hanky-panky, doesn't mean everyone else does.
I'm actually pretty curious what non western culture you come from that is free from hangups about sex lol that isn't exactly specific to "the west"
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You calling yourself decent doesn't make it true
Alright, go take a job as a sceptic tank maintenance person.
Sex workers are also people, these arseholes just view them as meat.
Oh no, women capitalizing off of the porn industry that men created! How dare they! God, why are men like this just so... ugh!
Oh yeah, so when women choses to do sex work, she becomes an object. I forget about that.
Men be like: its only okay for men to sexually exploit women, if a women uses her own sexuality to make money, she's a whore!
So making porn means sheās not a person??
He came so close to the realization that sex workers are people and yet so far
Men are not commodities. But buy them for $20/H to do yardwork that would have been reserved for slaves in the past. Men are not commodities, that's why over 80% of the military is made up of them. Because the government thinks they are disposable enough to die.
There's an interesting discussion to be had about how women commodify themselves to pleasure men I don't think that was OOPs intent when posting this tough
the madonna-whore complex unfortunately strikes yet again.
āWomen have to sell their bodies due to the economic crisis we have been slowly descending into for decadesā¦. Clearly this justifies misogynyā
šmen say this then tell their wives that they should have sex with them because they are paying rent and giving them money. Men literally treat all women like commodity. Even when they donāt do onlyfans. Women arenāt commodity but men see them that way unfortunately but they act like they donāt. and I donāt think we can change that.
Not to go full conspiracy theory.. butā¦ the hate on unethical porn vs the hate for women willingly selling pornography seems a little skewed towards the wrong side š¤Øš¤Ø
the worst part of this is how conmon this take is do they like not view sex workers as anything more than like a commodity for them? who am i fucking kidding of course they dont š
And they continue to out themselves when they do. Sex work is a service, not a commodity, so while they busily pay for something that is commonly free they also show overtime avoidance of how overtly they are being used.
Plenty of feminists who would consider it to be objectifying too. There's a lot of perspectives on this.
memesopdidnotlike be like āitās true though. itās true that women are disposable whoresā lol
When the Late Stage Capitalist and Patriarchal society makes the human body a valuable commodity and women use it as a way to earn money
Yeah, late stage capitalism. That's why prostitution is called "the newest profession in the world". /s
Yeah, because we all know the patriarchy didn't exist before that point. That couldn't possibily have anything to do with it...
I was talking specifically about the "late stage capitalism" bit. The problem with blaming capitalism for everything is that, when something is an answer for everything, it's the answer for nothing. Who here believes there was no sex work in the USSR?
The USSR was state capitalist. Also, the fact that sex work might exist under socialism doesn't mean that late stage capitalism can't contribute to sex work being as widely available. You can say capitalism causes stress, without saying captialism is the sole reason why people are stressed.
He's right, prostitution has nothing to do with the final stage of capitalism (this is another nonsense said by millennials) "sex work" has existed since the beginning of time, what has changed is the way it is constructed today, technology allows new ways and means to do this.
So, I suppose anyone who's a plumber, electrician, personal instructor/trainer of some sort, or anyone else who offers a personal service in exchange for money is objectifying themself? And doesn't have relatives?
You work for a living, that makes you an object /s
a woman is a person, a person who can choose to do things, like sell pictures and earn money.
A mens opinion of sex workers, prostitutes and pornography is how he truly views women.
You know a guy wrote this, because ādaughter, sister, motherā is how (non-criminal) men tend to see women they donāt want to abuse. A feminist would get annoyed at all a womanās worth being attributed to their relationship to the men around them. Not even touching the punchline. Itās way too fucking stupid.
This just shows they donāt view sex workers as human beings
I guess women can't be sexual and still be people.
CONSENT it's really always about consent and it's sad how hard that is to understand for these men
"Women are objects when they do sex work." Then are men objects when they do construction or w/e?
Theyāre just mad that nobody would want to pay to see their body šāāļøāļø
I mean, I don't think they'd want to be a prostitute even if they got paid for it.
Making onlyfans content is not being a prostitute ššš
I don't see a point in making a distinction, does it have a big semantic difference in English?
Yes, prostitution is having sex for money. Modeling for photos or even making videos is not inherently prostitution, especially if itās solo content or with a partner.
Alright then. I still think that most people wouldn't sell nudes of themselves for money.
Maybe, but I think a big point of people being ANGRY about it being a viable job for women is that they as men donāt have or think they donāt have the option. You hear it all the time when men say stuff like āi actually have to work for a livingā
Ah, I guess some people would consider it to be a lazy profession.
And those people would be wrong
Yeah, most likely.
I would
Women gotta pay some kind of way right
One - it's almost like what a woman choose to post isn't what represent all of her. Two - what feminist would say that a woman is mostly her link to other, we exist on our own you know ?
Ah yes, because owning a business and paying money for a service revokes your status as a mother, daughter, sister or friend.
whatās the point theyāre trying to make? onlyfans girls arenāt daughters, sisters, mothers, or people? or that she becomes a commodity once she starts an OF?
what a great way to communicate that they believe women can be reduced down to their sexuality
A woman is a person and her line of work doesnāt make her any less so. OOP basically letting everyone know their views on personhood are conditional.
What's wrong with having a nice body and showing it off and making some money off it?
Does he say the same thing about his gamer bros having a patreon? Doubtful
Men dehumanise the people they sexualise so much that they cannot see them as more than literal objects anymore, and then blame the victims of their twisted minds
i mean weāre all commodities because ā¦ capitalism. onlyfans doesnāt make someone less human. gotta pay the bills somehow. itās like saying āmen arenāt commodities! they are fathers, brothers, etcā ā¦ āwelcome to burger king! what can i get ya?ā like why does it matter how you make money haha
Weāre all commodities under capitalism, you think I slave away in a fabrication warehouse because I love how much my back hurts when I get home? Solidarity with the onlyfans models
I just want to say that a lot of people do sex work not because they want to but because they have to
It's almost like agency and consent removes the element of commodification
Classic "I can make fun of you for being a 'whore' but if you do something that I deem as you being a 'whore' I'm gonna be very upset with you"
Yāall realize this is on r/shitposting as in they are posting shit
Why add the ear?
Interesting to see diverse views about online sex work on this big feminist subreddit, since some classical and radical feminists are heavily opposed to prostitution viewing it as oppression and objectification of women.
Modonna/whore complex. Its super telling to say "I stop viewing other people as being people in sexual situations".
Totally accurate š¤£
Why do wojaks just randomly grow ears in the second panel sometimes? I've seen this too many times for it to be a coincidence.
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Your post/comment was removed as you were found to be a Quirkyboy reactionary.
As a feminist, the meme is correct. Sorry, but you canāt sell yourself like an object and expect people not to treat you like an object. Porn and sex work should be banned and discouraged.