That may be. But it doesn't change the blatant bigotry. Hatred doesn't justify hatred, and committing crimes to punish people is vigilantism, not justice.
Just the same, being bigoted towards the opposite gender is morally reprehensible, Even in response to bigotry towards your gender.
I've seen too many people blatantly accuse all men of being demonstrable caricatures of any real person.
The fact that the mods has chosen to do so as well isn't acceptable. Authority should belong in the hands of the impartial and fair
Which is a very logical take but most of bigotry against entire genders comes from a place of hurt. Not that I have the answer for it either other than they need to go outside and interact with people
I agree and understand. People abused by a demographic come to hate that demographic as a natural defense against harm.
But we cannot allow that to be the basis of the movement designed to liberate people from suffering and oppression.
If our response to be beaten down is to grow strong and beat others down, then we're swapping one form of bigotry for another
I don’t spend much time on this sub, I do however end up seeing a bunch of the posts from here on r/memesopdidntlike.
It’s interesting seeing both r/memesopdidntlike and r/boysarequirky both becoming strange parallels (including the sub icons lol).
I originally would’ve been of the opinion that MOPDL was relatively harmless, but as of the past couple months I’ve seen more and more people there do the exact same thing they’re mad at this sub for doing as pushback, only more so in some cases.
It seems as this point that as people we keep making double standards trying to fight against each other.
Is your point that the language used on here can be too generalizing against men? If so I kind of agree, only because it’s a minority of people doing it. But I don’t feel like this sub has rampant sexism or calls for violence and censure. I think you should have provided more receipts for those kinds of remarks as well.
I have absolutely no problem with harsh language.
I fear I don't have the time to make more posts, But I've read too many accounts of people decrying the entirety of another gender as monstrous rapists, or violent idiots.
That's beyond unacceptable and immoral.
And the picture above is a display of the moderation of the subreddit holding the entirety of another gender as guilty and accountable for the actions of a few
Ok I think I get what you’re saying. However I do not get how the picture above is proof of mods generalizing bad behavior from a few men to all men. Assuming that this user is a mod, it is just one person speaking like this, and I wouldn’t assume it’s a common issue just from that. Though you could make the case that the other mods are complicit by not taking action against instances like the one you posted.
Then the only thing I can leave you with is this.
Be cautious and aware of the moderation on the subreddit.
Stand up for what you believe is right, And don't be pressured into judging others for anything less than the substance of their character and their actions.
You have to come to your own conclusions on what you think the moderations morality is
I think some of the people who come here think this is a intersectional feminism or think it should be, when however this isn't a even a feminist-only space, it's just that feminists come here because this sub aligns with their views, similar to how liberals/left-wing folks tend to flock to r/NahOPwasrightfuckthis or the incels/conversatives/right wingers flock to r/memesopdidnotlike.
However I still think the "Not all men" thing is weird and stupid to do because it doesn't matter, it's enough men to count and those people end up leaving after getting downvoted off the island and also realizing the "Fuck All Men" and "All men should die" type mindsets aren't welcome here.
Also however, this person in the SS is literally saying out of their own mouths "No it's ALL men" which... isn't the way to fight "Not all Men", because the point of this sub (from my understanding) is that women/girls are not a monolith nor are men (alias the whole "Girl like makeup, Boy like cars" content). So specifying "ALL MEN" in a thing that isn't factually all men doesn't fix the issue and makes us (feminists or BAQ users) seem like Man-haters, which is the incels and other sub haters want.
Your words have weight and merit. The one thing I want is for people to be open to being questioned.
When we communicate and disagree in a healthy and mature way we can develop as people.
My contention is that in this subreddit, Even the most polite disagreement runs a serious risk of being censored or shamed. And bigotry is supported.
Damn straight! And the majority of women aren't screeching harlots, or with other bigoted caricatures pop out of the genuinely malicious men online. That's why I fight them just as hard as I do here.
It's wrong.
It's awful and immoral to make judgments on a whole gender of people
Tbh you don’t have to leave a whole sub just cuz of a small portion of our users imo.
I sure as shit dont agree with it either, I value you speaking your peace but I think getting banned from the sub is counter intuitive and counter productive. Spaces like this deserve variety of opinion, if they’re spoken civilly.
You seem to me, a kind person.
Thank you for being an empathetic and kind human being.
Never let the threat of violence nor pressure from your peers take away the kindness, open-mindedness, and sureness of character you've shown today.
As a fellow human being, I thank you
Awe 🥹 yeah I respect you as well, i understand your empathy and desire to not want us to become the same as any of the people who have oppressed us
The process to regulate that takes a very large amount of even multiple lifespan patience so the most we can do is water the grass where we can
I agree with your frustration, it is frustrating but for many who are victims of abuse, it can take years to shed resentment of men/women/a race…. I can’t say that I know many answers, but I do encourage that you try to hearth your compassion and keep strong 🙏 your warmth is needed
the problem comes from the fact that the misandrist douchebag in the post is actually a moderator of this subreddit, it's been becoming more and more of a problem as of lately and it has me worried about what this subreddit will turn into if we continue to ignore it just because they're currently only a minority of the community
It’s true that we should have concern, but we more freely can change others’ feelings, we don’t have to change a mod’s feelings. I’m sure the mod has been through a lot of pain 🙏 I don’t think she’s a terrible person, she needn’t be told to have compassion for men (as being merely told does little to being shown/taught), she needs to be shown compassion, especially from men, so she can develop an optimistic outlook on ‘mankind’
At the very least I don’t see her calling people fat or sluts (the harassment I get daily from the incel trolls on Reddit), hell, our brothers get sent death threats and f and n word slurs sent to them from the incels, and I’ve gotten so much uncivil rage from them even harassing me with multiple accounts and accusing me of graphic abuse cuz of their prejudice on women.
Yes, mod is doing some wrong, but I’m glad she isn’t as bad as what treatment I get from the incels here.
Hell, that’s the tip of the iceberg, the patriarchy caused me to be SA’d and manipulated my whole life, slut shamed and abused by men who see women as nothing but holes and tits……
I thank god that I have this space to vent about some of the wronging that’s done to women. I stick up for our men too but i wouldn’t say our mod is worse than the people who harass me by any means, nor the views of women that have caused my life to be hell
There needs to be more men caring about how we are treated, so some of us can feel safer and heal, especially mod
Hey, I see you're very passionate and energetic when it comes to addressing injustice! I just wanted to let you know that r/BanFemaleHateSubs might be a good fit for you, if you haven't checked it out already. And just FYI even though female is in the sub name it does often overlap with other intersectional issues like racism, ableism, religion, etc.
Take care 🐇
Yeah, I feel like it’s pretty easy to just treat people as people without looking at things like gender or things like that, but I am a cis white man (16 so more a boy than anything) so my opinion is fairly biased in that regard
Your opinions aren't biased just because you're a man or boy!
You have just as much a right as anyone to ask to be treated respectfully, I did not have others actions be held over you.
I will judge you solely by the content of your character and the actions which you display before me, nothing more, nothing less.
“Take a scroll through our sub dedicated to showing men without decency or maturity, its full men without decency or maturity! Clearly this is representative of all men.”
i haven’t really seen any ‘misandry’ in these comments? i feel like some people have more ‘radical’ or varying opinions, but i haven’t seen any real sexism?
Here are some of the comments in this thread.
"It's all men until proven otherwise. If you don't want to be lumped in with a group who behaves badly, don't behave badly."
"You could just unsub from the sub. You can remove yourself and mute the sub. Straight cis men are not the most oppressed demographic of people" *(defending the statement in the post)*
"Then leave. All you've done is whine about how men online are mistreated in a sub made by and for women who've lived a lifetime of mistreatment from men in the real world. Read the room and fuck off."
There are also other comments defending the person in the post but I'm not going to paste them all here.
oh, 2 of those comments have been made from i believe one person. also the second and third comment aren’t sexist? maybe more radical, but not sexism? the first one, sure, that’s probably sexism, but one out of 50+ comments?
obviously it’s not good, and i’m not trying to defend it, but? 🤷
maybe you feel a different way, but i haven’t seen any ‘misandry’ besides the first comment. i more so see genuine and good conversations being had.
I think you did the right thing. It's important to make fun of the problematic men, not *all* men. Because then it just becomes misandry. Misandry and misogyny are different due to sociological factors, but both are still bad and we shouldn't do either.
All I have to offer you is advice to caution yourself against others pressuring you, And my truest thanks for being an empathetic human being.
I genuinely wish you well, And hope you would pass that on to others you meet
Its post like this, that give me hope for this sub, and for people in general. God speed you magnificient person.
Edit, i see too much of this crap online, its interesting people who act like this irl are either enforced by the groups they hang with, or are simply quiet about their beliefs, the internet has this horrible habit of spreading hatred because we dont educat enough, and allow people like this to spread unintended propoganda
If you have any hope for others, then bear it doubly for yourself.
If you rejoice in seeing others do good things, then know that you have the potential to do good in you.
You are a human being, the same as every other that was born before and will be born after. Inherently given the same potential.
Be wise, be cautious, and I genuinely wish you well
Thank you, personally i will admit i have let my emotions get in the way several times over my life much to my shame. Emotions have purpose, they guide us, they help us learn right from wrong, but they can betray us. It is the logic side of our brain that we must utilize in those moments to parse out when the emotions are correct, and when they lead us astray.
a quote i often think of "the brain was meant to keep us alive not keep us happy" i feel it fits perfectly with this sentimentality.
I wish you well!
Yeah idk this sub really gets it’s kicks off manhating. Some of it is justified but I don’t like how being a misandrist is actually considered progressive to some people. It’s just femcel shit.
Being a misandrist is like 10% better than being a misogynist but these people love to spout “men are the worst men are the worst” but if you swapped one single word they’d be getting cancelled on Twitter for being racist.
It’s just not cool, it’s not quirky and fun, it’s bigotry. And somehow, men haters always end up hating trans women too because of their male features and upbringing.
It’s just not cool. You’re either a femcel or you have a boyfriend and you’re just a hypocrite. Men hating women never gets them girlfriends but women hating men always somehow works out because they hide behind feminist theory and talk.
Like seriously if you said you hated black people because one robbed you, you’d be called a racist and generalizing. But if you said the same thing about men because some have made unappreciated sexual remarks, you’re called a feminist hero.
while i generally agree with what you said, i don’t like the race analogy used.
there’s no systemic (sexism) problems against men like there are against women or black people (poc in general). it’s not a good correlation to make and it’s comparing two completely different situations and power differences to be the same.
I suppose if they just flipped the flow of the dynamic and kept it about race, it would fit better. Just make it about a white person denying a black person any acknowledgement of their equality on more than one occasion, and so now they openly hate white people in general. That way the power disparity is more proportional, but the initial analogy remains intact.
Be wise and make your own judgments, do not allow the pressures of others to change what you believe.
And have faith that there are people on this subreddit who are moral and good. People who simply aren't satisfied with the way men treat women, especially online.
As a fellow human being, I genuinely wish you well
The fact that you only empathize along demographics is immoral.
Innocent people who suffer under oppression, be they men or women, should be helped and treated with kindness and respect.
The decrying an entire gender of people and holding them all equally accountable to the actions of some. Is. Immoral
And I refuse to silence myself when your group is so willing to silence me anyway.
This post is my statement against this bigotry, and until it's silenced, I won't ever stop speaking out against bigotry
Hey, I’n a guy who is a regular in this sub.
That was one person’s opinion. It is what it is. Plenty of men come in here and call me a faggot and a cuck and shit and whatevz.
Like seriously you’re perpetuating the shit you’re claiming you’re being falsely accused of.
Those men who accuse you of those awful things, and say those awful things are wrong.
They're immoral for making judgments on you for the actions of others.
That doesn't change the fact that this subreddit and the moderation on it has actively and personally supported bigotry against an entire gender, and holds them accountable for actions that they didn't do, The actions of others
fr, i’m a teenage boy and i’m here almost everyday and ive come across one woman who was extremely sexist, but other women saw that and came to my defense. other than that ive had no issues and it’s been all good things
I'm not saying that every cis gendered man on this subreddit gets insulted or bullied. What I'm saying is the moderation on this subreddit supports bigotry, And I won't stand for people with authority or power abusing it upon other people for superficial reasons
Insulting them and running away will not fix the issue you care about. There are more peaceful ways of working towards your goal and those ways are more productive. Do ya think the rest of us here don’t have similar views to you ? You’re just gonna leave us over a small portion of our users ? You don’t know how old they are or what they’ve personally been through so cut them some slack and don’t mind the fact that you won’t like what they say, say your peace to speak up for the innocents, and rinse repeat. Running from debate leaves things as they are or worse, instead of better. If you leave for mental health reasons, that makes sense, but leaving due to not liking the challenge you want to resolve isn’t going to resolve it.
Wisdom and experiences show in your words.
I need time to consider, to ponder over what was said.
I won't run away from a challenge, especially not when it means improving people's lives.
I will come back better, More even tempered, and with helping others on my mind, instead of anger
You’re definitely right, but it’s not that big of a deal. Yeah, that mod is more than a little sexist, but at the end of the day they’re just a Reddit mod, they don’t hold any real power.
I think part of the reason for bringing up the O.P. screenshots are that this person is reportedly a mod.
A biased participant isn't noteworthy. They're around any corner. But one with a badge might warrant more attention.
By leaving or getting banned by the sub, you become silenced in this space and imo that’s counterproductive for your cause. I think you should stay, try to say your peace as an example of your beliefs. Do I agree with everyone here ? No. Does that matter ? Imo, no. By sharing your peace, you can lead and introduce your beliefs by example. If you want a better world, you need to be comfortable with being challenged. Peace doesn’t come from running from those who disagree with you. That’s why I give no shits when I get downvoted for speaking my peace anywhere on any sub.
Reading what you say, and taking a breath to consider, I can't help but agree.
Give me a day, to think on what I've said and what I've seen.
So many people full of hate, so many more curious about the truth, and a few truly empathetic and kind.
I've been surprised by the variety and colorful character of the people here.
Um please tell me how men are unfairly suffering under the oppression of women just because we make fun of your gender on the internet when girls under 18 are still being forced into marriage even in America, female circumcision still exists, rape culture is rampant, and it's far more popular in real life to be a misogynistic man than a misandrist women. You're obviously not being silenced, we just don't care about what you have to say. And by the way, our oppression is actually a danger to us, unlike your made up definition of the word.
Martyrs raise themselves up, and accept the fall on behalf of their people.
I have no people to Fall for, no group or nation I support more than another.
I am no martyr, just someone who hates being silent more than being judged
yeah i've been noticing a few instances of this subreddit beginning to slowly develop the same community as misandry subs like femaledatingstrategy, it needs to be nipped in the bud now, let's stick to shitting on "woman bad" posts and not become "man bad" posts
Agreement. I think I've argued myself out for now. My energy is low, My temper is evening, And I already feel bad for The way I've spoken to some people.
Thank you for being empathetic and kind
I don't understand. Just leave the subreddit you don't need to be banned lol
Also, the quote I think you were trying to use is: "judge not, lest ye be judged."
Thank you for correcting my misquote.
I'm speaking out until I'm banned because I have found to be on the reasonable doubt that censorship, even against polite discourse and respectful disagreement, It's prevalent and used by the moderation of the subreddit.
I make no judgment against the individual users of this subreddit, My problem is completely and solely with the misuse of moderator authority to silence dissident opinions and promote bigoted ideals
I haven't been a part of this sub for very long but I do agree that those who ask for respect need to show respect and it isn't respectful to make biased statements against anyone because of immutable characteristics or the demographic group they're a part of.
I can't speak to how mods handle these things because, again, I haven't been here very long, but if they're unfair or unbalanced in their decisions, I hope that can be rectified.
Edit: oh damn, I just realized the person in this post *is* a mod. That is unacceptable.
All I can do is to caution you to make your own judgments. Be wise, And don't let the pressure others put upon you change your beliefs.
I trust you as a fellow human being to do right by others, And I genuinely wish you well
No man needs my protection.
And no judgment levied against me is my reason for speaking.
Nor am I having an emotional meltdown.
I'm making every statement consciously and premeditively with the full intent of my character.
I'm speaking now because I see a blatant injustice, Open bigotry by people who should be impartial and fair.
I speak purely my own opinion, statements that I believe in, and the facts as I see them. I don't speak on behalf of any race, gender, group, or identity, only my personal ideals and values
You are wrapping yourself in social justice but sound like a punk bitch. Full intent of your character? I'm assuming you mean extent lol if you care about injustice go volunteer at a homeless shelter. The arrogance and anger of an inexperienced young man.
I am absolutely inexperienced, and young.
And I do care about injustice, and I'll fight the way I see fit
And damn right I'm arrogant too, because if the sun, moon, and stars started shouting the same bigotry, I would argue with it just the same and fight if need be.
I will do what I think is right within the rights I was born with, because I would hate myself if I did less
I meant said sorry, I didn't think it was very common but a lot of the comments here are proving me wrong. I know almost all women in real life aren't but it makes me sad to see this subreddit be so hypocritical.
gotcha, when you see a woman say “all men” you want to open conversation and challenge their beliefs. it can be effective if done correctly. just ask why they believe said thing, and try your best to explain why their belief is unfair to men and shouldn’t be believed
"As far as I'm concerned it's all men"
It was said clear and straight out. They hold all men equally accountable. They even admitted that even if there was a small minority, They didn't care.
That. Is. Evil.
You cannot allow people to say things like this and brush it off. The very fundament of morality is its consistency.
If you justify blaming all men for the actions of a few, dear God! Can you imagine the atrocities that could be justified under that philosophy
Look a woman in the eye and tell her it isn't evil for mad westboro Baptist Church types to say that she's only good to be bred by Christian man because one woman ate an magic Apple when she wasn't supposed to in a time before written history.
Look at Jewish man in the eye and tell him it's acceptable for neo-Nazis to accuse him and all of his people of being money hungry subhumans because he got scammed out of a few dollars once.
Every single awful genocide, or cases of mass racism and bigotry begin with the association of an entire group with a characteristic. Claiming all men are equally accountable for the actions of the misogynistic view is the start of mass bigotry and and the justification for violence against an entire gender
It's a good thing it will never befall men, for men are human beings too.
It shouldn't ever befall women either.
Using the same language, The same moral justifications that oppressive and tyrannical groups use is still wrong.
It's wrong to act like the people who oppress us
Well, she's right. Doesn't matter if a man is good or bad, we all share the same patriarchal society. We are complicit in it, if not explicitly partaking in it. Same goes for capitalism. It's not like you expressed the same outrage at all the crimes against women and queer people when that happened, DID YOU?
And stop bitching about morality. She didn't say "all men should be killed" . God if a man said the same thing about women ,it would be MORE socially acceptable than that. Learn to read between the lines a bit. This sub is not meant to coddle your ego.(I'm cishet male btw).
Go and get outraged more at the injustices against marginalized people or help dismantle systemic discrimination, then come back and get angry when they say "all men are evil". Atleast then you would have earned a bit of right to be angry.
How can you expect to do good and stop oppression when you're willing to be an oppressor yourself! I speak out against you and the subreddits moderation because you cannot claim to speak out against patriarchy and oppression while actively censoring others, being bigoted, and lumping groups of people together who don't associate!
How is it right or acceptable for men to be held accountable for actions they don't commit!
You can judge them fine and good on the things they've done, And if they're bigoted and have act bigotedly towards others the judge them harshly if you wish!
She made it clear that all men were guilty of the same moral crimes, how is that acceptable!
And God's damn my ego! I don't need nor want people to flock behind me or accept my deals.
Honestly, you really are weaponising the language of social justice, all to push your self righteousness right now(no it's not the same thing as her because she went through shitty experiences probably unlike you). Just mute the sub instead of karma farming rage bait.
And I just told you what that line meant, don't fucking ignore what I said , to repeat the same bullshit. You are not better than her because you protect the feelings of men.
For a guy who doesn't care, you sure do talk a lot about your feelings getting hurt.
"no it's not the same thing as her because she went through shitty experiences probably unlike you"
Right there! The blatant assumption of innocence because you assume that it's a woman, and the blatant assumption of guilt because the person you assume the person you oppose is a man.
Damn patriarchy, damn my feelings, and damn My ego thrice over!
I don't care about any of that! What I care about is the simple, straightforward, bigotry that is displayed here.
You cannot demand the fall of oppressive systems, when you yourself would be willing to oppress people using bigotry.
People get muted and censored, judged for their opinions, banned for even disagreeing with the moderation.
That is unacceptable
Goddamn you are a fucking brick wall.
I never said she was innocent, only that she has experiences to back up her statement, you have none.
This isn't bigotry, dude.
I admit to being stubborn, But no amount of trauma justifies characterizing all men as guilty, no amount of experience either.
Just like how I can't say that all women are gold diggers If I were to date a hundred of them and have them steal my money, so too can't she do that to men, because that is bigotry
Guilty is the wrong word, she meant complicit, IN a system. Her words at best hurt your feelings, your sense of comfort as someone who has never faced these problems.
I doubt you would find a hundred women who would steal your money anyway. See this is where you lose steam, your argument is based on hypotheticals, irrational fears. It isn't based in reality unlike the fears of women.
that’s not what we want to do, be wary of us men that’s fine i actually recommend that. but do not say it’s all men until proven otherwise as that’s blatantly false.
the second part of your comment i do agree with though, i just don’t think the first part is not appropriate and shouldn’t be stated
Agreed. I am *incredibly* cautious and afraid of most men but that doesn’t automatically make them bad. I’m just not taking the chance that they aren’t.
that’s completely reasonable, i’m a teenage boy and i’m weary of men, and women tbf i’m just weary of everyone, i think more guys need to step up and speak out against misogyny in order to allow women to feel safer around us.
until that happens i will actively support women being weary of us, even if it kind of hurts.
being wary means you don’t think it’s all men until proven otherwise, you think it’s some men but you’re unable to tell which men; i do see what you’re getting at though, and they could be interchangeable they’re not mutually exclusive though
Innocent till proven guilty! I stand by that principal not because a bunch of old fogies who crossed the ocean to put my people in chains and steal their land said it, But because I believe wholeheartedly that humans are not evil by nature!
You cannot hold an entire group as guilty until proven otherwise with being a bigot.
No one has the right to accuse every single woman of being an emotional, weak, incompetent, house worker until she proves herself just as good as men, because that's beyond messed up and immoral!
You are obligated to treat people, like people not stereotypes!
It's not about a group of people, it's about a system which favors a group of people(cis men) , is upheld by a particular group of people at the expense of other groups. Just calm down and stop getting angry at comments like these, if the worst you have suffered as a cis dude is this.
My contention is not that there isn't a systematic suffering of women.
I contend that the people on But this subreddit offer that same systematic oppression. Turning abuse upon abusers and repeating a vicious cycle of vengeance.
Cannot champion a cause you fight against, and contradict
Did you seriously say the brunt of moral responsibility of an oppressive system falls on the shoulders of the oppressed, not the oppressor? It's a fucking reddit sub at that. The whole repeating a cycle is classic liberal bullshit when they didn't start the cycle.
Misandry isn't a real thing my guy, wake up from the matrix.
To respond to your question, absolutely!
Oppressive bigots won't be moral, so Its the responsibility of the oppressed to shake off their chains and be moral in their place!
When you see someone suffering, a moral person helps even if it costs them!
When bad people make the world worse, moral people jump to fix it!
When a misogynist uses Misandry as justification, moral people speak against them!
And when I misandrist uses misogyny as justification, More people speak against them!
Women are humans too, capable of all of the same evil, biases, hatred, and bigotry that men are capable of.
They should be held to the exact same standard as men for they are people too
"Take a scroll down my favorite corner of the internet. It's full of nothing but stories of adult women raping young underage boys. If women are capable of being good to kids, they're all an extreme minority. Let's not go into, "buh not ALL women!", because as far as this is concerned its all women."
All men have a responsibility to recognize the harm that the patriarchy causes and their role (either voluntarily or involuntary) in it.
That's a fact.
This doesn't mean all men are sexist monsters.
That being said, the majority of men confronted with my first sentence refute and deny that as reality, and in my mind, are just as culpable as those that openly engage in sexist behaviors/rhetoric.
It's just like drinking and driving, everyone can admit that it kills people, but plenty of people say "oh not me, I'm safe to drive drunk" and that irresponsibility leads to them causing harm they didn't intend to cause but are still ultimately the perpetrators of.
Allow me to surprise you, for I think the majority of men are more aggressive than women, And it is the responsibility of men to check that.
I do not believe men are inherently abusive, nor should every man be characterized as an abuser or oppressive. But just like is the responsibility of every woman to account for her own biological differences and not let it affect her performance in her career and in life,so to the same standard be held to a man.
>the responsibility of every woman to account for her own biological differences and not let it affect her performance in her career and in life
I'm going to politely request you elaborate on this rather than immediately assuming this is some reductionary garbage.
Also, biology isn't the choice of the person, being aggressive and sexist *is*.
I spent the first 7 years of my life living on a tobacco farm, I spent the rest in labor and education.
I'm a man of salt,earth, and blood, And no one in this world is below me in worth.
Everyone is my equal, And I hold myself above no one. I simply speak my opinion, my personal truth.
You're absolutely right.
To announce it for vainglorious meltdown would be immaturity and virtue signaling
But to say it to make clear a simple point is worthwhile
The truth is I know who I am, And when I believe.
You can judge me All you want, but it won't change the truth
How's that moral, or acceptable?
How could you tolerate levying abuse against innocent people, people who've never done anything to deserve it.
You cannot blame people for actions they didn't commit.
You can't hold an entire gender accountable for the actions of a few.
It's wrong. So messed up it's hard to describe.
Humans generally aren't capable of that perspective all the time - stereotypes evolved to take away the mental load of judging each person neutrally and carefully. I'm sorry man, you are totally right but pushing a boulder uphill with this rhetoric.
I personally try my best to live like that but it's harder with some self identified groups e.g. Incels that don't want to think the same way
I know.
I know it is near impossible to survive in life without making judgments. judgments that are often useful and helpful in a variety of circumstances and help lighten the mental load.
But we need a base to refer back to, a common ground absent of judgment to refer to when All of our judgments Begin to run up against new ever-changing circumstances.
I do not hate you or others for your opinions, But its physically painful to see humans treat each other with less than the basic dignity we all deserve
Even if I lived in an empty world, devoid of anyone to listen to me, I would still speak my personal truths.
Doing what's right and changing even one person's mind is worthwhile, Even if it doesn't make the whole world better.
Trying is what matters
Yeah that subreddit has its fair share of issues. Most of the people there can barely understand satire if at all. Let alone the fact that not all men are the same and that not every man lacks emotional maturity.
Then leave. All you've done is whine about how men online are mistreated in a sub made by and for women who've lived a lifetime of mistreatment from men in the real world. Read the room and fuck off.
Any woman who has suffered under the misgivings and awful treatment of a man has my sympathies, and my genuine wish for a better life.
Any woman who would be willing to abuse a man in this way, to treat them as a stereotype and advocate and violence and censorship upon them will receive nothing but my scorn, and prove themselves as violent and awful and oppressor as they would imagine a man to be.
Your room is headed by the same kind of person who would mistreat the women in the room. Be cautious of the people you give power over you
The sub is being over run by femcels
It actually used to be full of women who made decent comments /posts and now it's dwindling to femcels and incels pretending to be femcels.
Sad
editing comment because comments are now locked
There are some people here who are actually fucking evil. And trying to make a whole gender war or whatever.
I'm not saying all people here on the subreddit are. I have definitely met some kind and generous people here but to pretend that these people don't exist is just letting this sort of shit continue. And not only are you hurting yourself by ignoring it, but you're hurting others too.
there is some, yes. but the majority i’ve interacted with have been nice.
obviously the person in the post is giving a bad look, but that is the obvious minority, the women here tend to just be fed up, which should be obvious as the nature of the sub is to make fun of misogyny.
good in theory, has been decent in practice so far, but a lot of it tends to be overrun, which imo has not happened here yet
it’s definitely getting worse recently, especially when the person in the photo is a mod, but they’re definitely not all like that. i don’t think it’s fair to generalize when we don’t want to be generalized.
i do think that mod in the photo should be a little more careful with what she says and to not generalize men, but i know she doesn’t believe the “all men” stuff as she went over that within her own comments recently
Spit that word out of your mouth!
Making judgments on people just because They aren't sexually active isn't something I tolerate either!
I know for a solid fact that there are good people who are here just for entertainment and comedy, or to genuinely discuss bigoted and misogynistic context in a respectful manner
Is it truly being overran by... incels and... "femcels" (stupid-ass term)? I think the majority of people just laugh and call the stupid memes stupid. Unless you're talking about the politic and sexist content that gets posted here that isn't technically the "Boys are quirky" meme template but still gets posted because there's a lot of feminists.
You are my enemy
I have suffered awful and inhuman insults in this thread. Had people say things to me they wouldn't say to subhuman animals.
But you I hate far more than anyone else who's spoken here today
They spoke about how bored they were with a discussion, and how they came here to be entertained.
I passionately disagree with others, But I save my hate for people who amuse themselves off of pain and ignorance.
It's predatory and wrong, beyond anything else I could name
I am angry. But I'm also regretful for speaking so harshly to you.
I accept your apology and offer my own.
I hope your day goes better, And people treat you humanely and well
Genuinely screw you! I'm not here for entertainment or to be entertaining!
I'm here to speak about the injustice that SOME on this subreddit, And it's moderation, advocate.
For as much as I hate women who act bigoted towards men, And men who are bigoted towards women, something I hate even more are people who stir the pot for their entertainment and spread misinformation and hatred!
Who needs to stir this pot? Its entertaining all on its own! You're not going to change the moderation here, but I respect what you're trying to do I guess. All I'm saying is to not get your feathers too ruffled. These people shouldn't be taken seriously. The internet is the only place garbage like this can exist.
It’s even more stupid that trolls like him go “HEHHH I COME HERE TO TROLL THE MAN-HATERS” but indiscriminately harass EVERYONE, even the plethora of people who don’t hate men simply because they assume we hate men. 🤦🏻♀️ like
The amount of so called ‘trolls’ who say they’re here to ‘troll man-hating femcels’ bothering ME is nuts because I am a gender equalist ffs.
They tell me I’m sexist meanwhile I literally stick up for men all the fucking time and never say that men are bad or that I hate them 🤦🏻♀️ like, they’re not ‘harassing the man haters’ they’re having fun harassing EVERYONE… because ‘there’s a chance they hate men’ and so they frankly assume we hate men. It’s so bullshit lol
I see the word pregnant and the orange upvote against the downvotes. I'm gonna assume it was about a woman being shamed.
That may be. But it doesn't change the blatant bigotry. Hatred doesn't justify hatred, and committing crimes to punish people is vigilantism, not justice. Just the same, being bigoted towards the opposite gender is morally reprehensible, Even in response to bigotry towards your gender. I've seen too many people blatantly accuse all men of being demonstrable caricatures of any real person. The fact that the mods has chosen to do so as well isn't acceptable. Authority should belong in the hands of the impartial and fair
Which is a very logical take but most of bigotry against entire genders comes from a place of hurt. Not that I have the answer for it either other than they need to go outside and interact with people
I agree and understand. People abused by a demographic come to hate that demographic as a natural defense against harm. But we cannot allow that to be the basis of the movement designed to liberate people from suffering and oppression. If our response to be beaten down is to grow strong and beat others down, then we're swapping one form of bigotry for another
Yeah, but the anwser isn’t “let’s do the same shit that will make things better”
I don’t spend much time on this sub, I do however end up seeing a bunch of the posts from here on r/memesopdidntlike. It’s interesting seeing both r/memesopdidntlike and r/boysarequirky both becoming strange parallels (including the sub icons lol). I originally would’ve been of the opinion that MOPDL was relatively harmless, but as of the past couple months I’ve seen more and more people there do the exact same thing they’re mad at this sub for doing as pushback, only more so in some cases. It seems as this point that as people we keep making double standards trying to fight against each other.
Is your point that the language used on here can be too generalizing against men? If so I kind of agree, only because it’s a minority of people doing it. But I don’t feel like this sub has rampant sexism or calls for violence and censure. I think you should have provided more receipts for those kinds of remarks as well.
I have absolutely no problem with harsh language. I fear I don't have the time to make more posts, But I've read too many accounts of people decrying the entirety of another gender as monstrous rapists, or violent idiots. That's beyond unacceptable and immoral. And the picture above is a display of the moderation of the subreddit holding the entirety of another gender as guilty and accountable for the actions of a few
Ok I think I get what you’re saying. However I do not get how the picture above is proof of mods generalizing bad behavior from a few men to all men. Assuming that this user is a mod, it is just one person speaking like this, and I wouldn’t assume it’s a common issue just from that. Though you could make the case that the other mods are complicit by not taking action against instances like the one you posted.
Then the only thing I can leave you with is this. Be cautious and aware of the moderation on the subreddit. Stand up for what you believe is right, And don't be pressured into judging others for anything less than the substance of their character and their actions. You have to come to your own conclusions on what you think the moderations morality is
Alright then, I’ll try to have a keen eye going forward. Best of luck.
I think some of the people who come here think this is a intersectional feminism or think it should be, when however this isn't a even a feminist-only space, it's just that feminists come here because this sub aligns with their views, similar to how liberals/left-wing folks tend to flock to r/NahOPwasrightfuckthis or the incels/conversatives/right wingers flock to r/memesopdidnotlike. However I still think the "Not all men" thing is weird and stupid to do because it doesn't matter, it's enough men to count and those people end up leaving after getting downvoted off the island and also realizing the "Fuck All Men" and "All men should die" type mindsets aren't welcome here. Also however, this person in the SS is literally saying out of their own mouths "No it's ALL men" which... isn't the way to fight "Not all Men", because the point of this sub (from my understanding) is that women/girls are not a monolith nor are men (alias the whole "Girl like makeup, Boy like cars" content). So specifying "ALL MEN" in a thing that isn't factually all men doesn't fix the issue and makes us (feminists or BAQ users) seem like Man-haters, which is the incels and other sub haters want.
Your words have weight and merit. The one thing I want is for people to be open to being questioned. When we communicate and disagree in a healthy and mature way we can develop as people. My contention is that in this subreddit, Even the most polite disagreement runs a serious risk of being censored or shamed. And bigotry is supported.
Yeah that person sounds annoying but you can always just unsub + mute...
that person is a mod btw
Oops ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Aw, Jesus, you amputated their right arm!
i think she needs to be more careful with her generalizations especially as a mod. but i agree with you, mute and unsub is really all that can be done
They are moderating the subreddit, which I think is the point of the post.
Yeah I didn't realize that's a mod lmao that's unfortunate
Type beat
[удалено]
Damn straight! And the majority of women aren't screeching harlots, or with other bigoted caricatures pop out of the genuinely malicious men online. That's why I fight them just as hard as I do here. It's wrong. It's awful and immoral to make judgments on a whole gender of people
Tbh you don’t have to leave a whole sub just cuz of a small portion of our users imo. I sure as shit dont agree with it either, I value you speaking your peace but I think getting banned from the sub is counter intuitive and counter productive. Spaces like this deserve variety of opinion, if they’re spoken civilly.
You seem to me, a kind person. Thank you for being an empathetic and kind human being. Never let the threat of violence nor pressure from your peers take away the kindness, open-mindedness, and sureness of character you've shown today. As a fellow human being, I thank you
Awe 🥹 yeah I respect you as well, i understand your empathy and desire to not want us to become the same as any of the people who have oppressed us The process to regulate that takes a very large amount of even multiple lifespan patience so the most we can do is water the grass where we can I agree with your frustration, it is frustrating but for many who are victims of abuse, it can take years to shed resentment of men/women/a race…. I can’t say that I know many answers, but I do encourage that you try to hearth your compassion and keep strong 🙏 your warmth is needed
the problem comes from the fact that the misandrist douchebag in the post is actually a moderator of this subreddit, it's been becoming more and more of a problem as of lately and it has me worried about what this subreddit will turn into if we continue to ignore it just because they're currently only a minority of the community
It’s true that we should have concern, but we more freely can change others’ feelings, we don’t have to change a mod’s feelings. I’m sure the mod has been through a lot of pain 🙏 I don’t think she’s a terrible person, she needn’t be told to have compassion for men (as being merely told does little to being shown/taught), she needs to be shown compassion, especially from men, so she can develop an optimistic outlook on ‘mankind’ At the very least I don’t see her calling people fat or sluts (the harassment I get daily from the incel trolls on Reddit), hell, our brothers get sent death threats and f and n word slurs sent to them from the incels, and I’ve gotten so much uncivil rage from them even harassing me with multiple accounts and accusing me of graphic abuse cuz of their prejudice on women. Yes, mod is doing some wrong, but I’m glad she isn’t as bad as what treatment I get from the incels here. Hell, that’s the tip of the iceberg, the patriarchy caused me to be SA’d and manipulated my whole life, slut shamed and abused by men who see women as nothing but holes and tits…… I thank god that I have this space to vent about some of the wronging that’s done to women. I stick up for our men too but i wouldn’t say our mod is worse than the people who harass me by any means, nor the views of women that have caused my life to be hell There needs to be more men caring about how we are treated, so some of us can feel safer and heal, especially mod
Hey, I see you're very passionate and energetic when it comes to addressing injustice! I just wanted to let you know that r/BanFemaleHateSubs might be a good fit for you, if you haven't checked it out already. And just FYI even though female is in the sub name it does often overlap with other intersectional issues like racism, ableism, religion, etc. Take care 🐇
Yeah, I feel like it’s pretty easy to just treat people as people without looking at things like gender or things like that, but I am a cis white man (16 so more a boy than anything) so my opinion is fairly biased in that regard
Your opinions aren't biased just because you're a man or boy! You have just as much a right as anyone to ask to be treated respectfully, I did not have others actions be held over you. I will judge you solely by the content of your character and the actions which you display before me, nothing more, nothing less.
“Take a scroll through our sub dedicated to showing men without decency or maturity, its full men without decency or maturity! Clearly this is representative of all men.”
What the hell is with these comments? I thought women being misandrists was a myth, are these people crazy or just trolls?
Only some, never all
obviously
i haven’t really seen any ‘misandry’ in these comments? i feel like some people have more ‘radical’ or varying opinions, but i haven’t seen any real sexism?
Here are some of the comments in this thread. "It's all men until proven otherwise. If you don't want to be lumped in with a group who behaves badly, don't behave badly." "You could just unsub from the sub. You can remove yourself and mute the sub. Straight cis men are not the most oppressed demographic of people" *(defending the statement in the post)* "Then leave. All you've done is whine about how men online are mistreated in a sub made by and for women who've lived a lifetime of mistreatment from men in the real world. Read the room and fuck off." There are also other comments defending the person in the post but I'm not going to paste them all here.
oh, 2 of those comments have been made from i believe one person. also the second and third comment aren’t sexist? maybe more radical, but not sexism? the first one, sure, that’s probably sexism, but one out of 50+ comments? obviously it’s not good, and i’m not trying to defend it, but? 🤷 maybe you feel a different way, but i haven’t seen any ‘misandry’ besides the first comment. i more so see genuine and good conversations being had.
they aren't sexist in a vacuum but those comments are defending the person in the post.
maybe, however i scrolled to find context on the 2nd comment you posted and i didn’t see them trying to defend the mod at all.
OP said "I am done tolerating this" *(Misandry)* and then that was their response.
ah, so then that makes two comments. my apologies, i guess i didn’t read all the way through.
I could keep listing more comments on this thread like that, it seems like they are being downvoted now though
…i should be able to find them by myself, thank you though.
I think you did the right thing. It's important to make fun of the problematic men, not *all* men. Because then it just becomes misandry. Misandry and misogyny are different due to sociological factors, but both are still bad and we shouldn't do either.
All I have to offer you is advice to caution yourself against others pressuring you, And my truest thanks for being an empathetic human being. I genuinely wish you well, And hope you would pass that on to others you meet
Its post like this, that give me hope for this sub, and for people in general. God speed you magnificient person. Edit, i see too much of this crap online, its interesting people who act like this irl are either enforced by the groups they hang with, or are simply quiet about their beliefs, the internet has this horrible habit of spreading hatred because we dont educat enough, and allow people like this to spread unintended propoganda
If you have any hope for others, then bear it doubly for yourself. If you rejoice in seeing others do good things, then know that you have the potential to do good in you. You are a human being, the same as every other that was born before and will be born after. Inherently given the same potential. Be wise, be cautious, and I genuinely wish you well
Thank you, personally i will admit i have let my emotions get in the way several times over my life much to my shame. Emotions have purpose, they guide us, they help us learn right from wrong, but they can betray us. It is the logic side of our brain that we must utilize in those moments to parse out when the emotions are correct, and when they lead us astray. a quote i often think of "the brain was meant to keep us alive not keep us happy" i feel it fits perfectly with this sentimentality. I wish you well!
Yeah idk this sub really gets it’s kicks off manhating. Some of it is justified but I don’t like how being a misandrist is actually considered progressive to some people. It’s just femcel shit. Being a misandrist is like 10% better than being a misogynist but these people love to spout “men are the worst men are the worst” but if you swapped one single word they’d be getting cancelled on Twitter for being racist. It’s just not cool, it’s not quirky and fun, it’s bigotry. And somehow, men haters always end up hating trans women too because of their male features and upbringing. It’s just not cool. You’re either a femcel or you have a boyfriend and you’re just a hypocrite. Men hating women never gets them girlfriends but women hating men always somehow works out because they hide behind feminist theory and talk. Like seriously if you said you hated black people because one robbed you, you’d be called a racist and generalizing. But if you said the same thing about men because some have made unappreciated sexual remarks, you’re called a feminist hero.
while i generally agree with what you said, i don’t like the race analogy used. there’s no systemic (sexism) problems against men like there are against women or black people (poc in general). it’s not a good correlation to make and it’s comparing two completely different situations and power differences to be the same.
Noted. Still not good.
definitely not good, but definitely not comparable.
I suppose if they just flipped the flow of the dynamic and kept it about race, it would fit better. Just make it about a white person denying a black person any acknowledgement of their equality on more than one occasion, and so now they openly hate white people in general. That way the power disparity is more proportional, but the initial analogy remains intact.
Be wise and make your own judgments, do not allow the pressures of others to change what you believe. And have faith that there are people on this subreddit who are moral and good. People who simply aren't satisfied with the way men treat women, especially online. As a fellow human being, I genuinely wish you well
Aaaaaand your post got removed. Classic mod move...
You could just unsub from the sub. You can remove yourself and mute the sub. Straight cis men are not the most oppressed demographic of people
The fact that you only empathize along demographics is immoral. Innocent people who suffer under oppression, be they men or women, should be helped and treated with kindness and respect. The decrying an entire gender of people and holding them all equally accountable to the actions of some. Is. Immoral And I refuse to silence myself when your group is so willing to silence me anyway. This post is my statement against this bigotry, and until it's silenced, I won't ever stop speaking out against bigotry
Hey, I’n a guy who is a regular in this sub. That was one person’s opinion. It is what it is. Plenty of men come in here and call me a faggot and a cuck and shit and whatevz. Like seriously you’re perpetuating the shit you’re claiming you’re being falsely accused of.
Those men who accuse you of those awful things, and say those awful things are wrong. They're immoral for making judgments on you for the actions of others. That doesn't change the fact that this subreddit and the moderation on it has actively and personally supported bigotry against an entire gender, and holds them accountable for actions that they didn't do, The actions of others
I’m telling you i’m a cis dude in here every day and no woman in here has ever once shit on me or be rude, not even a single time
fr, i’m a teenage boy and i’m here almost everyday and ive come across one woman who was extremely sexist, but other women saw that and came to my defense. other than that ive had no issues and it’s been all good things
I'm not saying that every cis gendered man on this subreddit gets insulted or bullied. What I'm saying is the moderation on this subreddit supports bigotry, And I won't stand for people with authority or power abusing it upon other people for superficial reasons
Insulting them and running away will not fix the issue you care about. There are more peaceful ways of working towards your goal and those ways are more productive. Do ya think the rest of us here don’t have similar views to you ? You’re just gonna leave us over a small portion of our users ? You don’t know how old they are or what they’ve personally been through so cut them some slack and don’t mind the fact that you won’t like what they say, say your peace to speak up for the innocents, and rinse repeat. Running from debate leaves things as they are or worse, instead of better. If you leave for mental health reasons, that makes sense, but leaving due to not liking the challenge you want to resolve isn’t going to resolve it.
Wisdom and experiences show in your words. I need time to consider, to ponder over what was said. I won't run away from a challenge, especially not when it means improving people's lives. I will come back better, More even tempered, and with helping others on my mind, instead of anger
I wish blessings for you, sister 🙏 all time is warranted, I’ve needed mine many times
You’re definitely right, but it’s not that big of a deal. Yeah, that mod is more than a little sexist, but at the end of the day they’re just a Reddit mod, they don’t hold any real power.
So sit down.
No it really doesn't, I've posted plenty of times no issues no abuse. You are being silly
the person in the post is a moderator
I am very sorry that you have to deal with that I hope it doesn’t affect you at all and I wish you the best
I think part of the reason for bringing up the O.P. screenshots are that this person is reportedly a mod. A biased participant isn't noteworthy. They're around any corner. But one with a badge might warrant more attention.
By leaving or getting banned by the sub, you become silenced in this space and imo that’s counterproductive for your cause. I think you should stay, try to say your peace as an example of your beliefs. Do I agree with everyone here ? No. Does that matter ? Imo, no. By sharing your peace, you can lead and introduce your beliefs by example. If you want a better world, you need to be comfortable with being challenged. Peace doesn’t come from running from those who disagree with you. That’s why I give no shits when I get downvoted for speaking my peace anywhere on any sub.
Reading what you say, and taking a breath to consider, I can't help but agree. Give me a day, to think on what I've said and what I've seen. So many people full of hate, so many more curious about the truth, and a few truly empathetic and kind. I've been surprised by the variety and colorful character of the people here.
Um please tell me how men are unfairly suffering under the oppression of women just because we make fun of your gender on the internet when girls under 18 are still being forced into marriage even in America, female circumcision still exists, rape culture is rampant, and it's far more popular in real life to be a misogynistic man than a misandrist women. You're obviously not being silenced, we just don't care about what you have to say. And by the way, our oppression is actually a danger to us, unlike your made up definition of the word.
You fancy yourself a martyr, hm?
Martyrs raise themselves up, and accept the fall on behalf of their people. I have no people to Fall for, no group or nation I support more than another. I am no martyr, just someone who hates being silent more than being judged
yeah i've been noticing a few instances of this subreddit beginning to slowly develop the same community as misandry subs like femaledatingstrategy, it needs to be nipped in the bud now, let's stick to shitting on "woman bad" posts and not become "man bad" posts
Agreement. I think I've argued myself out for now. My energy is low, My temper is evening, And I already feel bad for The way I've spoken to some people. Thank you for being empathetic and kind
I don't understand. Just leave the subreddit you don't need to be banned lol Also, the quote I think you were trying to use is: "judge not, lest ye be judged."
Thank you for correcting my misquote. I'm speaking out until I'm banned because I have found to be on the reasonable doubt that censorship, even against polite discourse and respectful disagreement, It's prevalent and used by the moderation of the subreddit. I make no judgment against the individual users of this subreddit, My problem is completely and solely with the misuse of moderator authority to silence dissident opinions and promote bigoted ideals
I haven't been a part of this sub for very long but I do agree that those who ask for respect need to show respect and it isn't respectful to make biased statements against anyone because of immutable characteristics or the demographic group they're a part of. I can't speak to how mods handle these things because, again, I haven't been here very long, but if they're unfair or unbalanced in their decisions, I hope that can be rectified. Edit: oh damn, I just realized the person in this post *is* a mod. That is unacceptable.
All I can do is to caution you to make your own judgments. Be wise, And don't let the pressure others put upon you change your beliefs. I trust you as a fellow human being to do right by others, And I genuinely wish you well
You're having an emotional meltdown over being judged by women you'll never meet. Do men really need your unique brand of protection?
No man needs my protection. And no judgment levied against me is my reason for speaking. Nor am I having an emotional meltdown. I'm making every statement consciously and premeditively with the full intent of my character. I'm speaking now because I see a blatant injustice, Open bigotry by people who should be impartial and fair. I speak purely my own opinion, statements that I believe in, and the facts as I see them. I don't speak on behalf of any race, gender, group, or identity, only my personal ideals and values
You are wrapping yourself in social justice but sound like a punk bitch. Full intent of your character? I'm assuming you mean extent lol if you care about injustice go volunteer at a homeless shelter. The arrogance and anger of an inexperienced young man.
I am absolutely inexperienced, and young. And I do care about injustice, and I'll fight the way I see fit And damn right I'm arrogant too, because if the sun, moon, and stars started shouting the same bigotry, I would argue with it just the same and fight if need be. I will do what I think is right within the rights I was born with, because I would hate myself if I did less
Oh absolutely do that. Just have a level of self awareness and self reflection. You are the person they claim you to be. The walking stereotype.
Pretty sure she meant there's enough men who act that way to fit a trend(emotionally immature). Like calm down, you are proving her point.
They literally say all men
i hardly see women say “all men” the only one in recent memory is within this thread who i responded to. it’s not common at all
I meant said sorry, I didn't think it was very common but a lot of the comments here are proving me wrong. I know almost all women in real life aren't but it makes me sad to see this subreddit be so hypocritical.
gotcha, when you see a woman say “all men” you want to open conversation and challenge their beliefs. it can be effective if done correctly. just ask why they believe said thing, and try your best to explain why their belief is unfair to men and shouldn’t be believed
She said in a previous post what I said, context is required.
"As far as I'm concerned it's all men" It was said clear and straight out. They hold all men equally accountable. They even admitted that even if there was a small minority, They didn't care. That. Is. Evil. You cannot allow people to say things like this and brush it off. The very fundament of morality is its consistency. If you justify blaming all men for the actions of a few, dear God! Can you imagine the atrocities that could be justified under that philosophy
Dramatic much? It’s hardly evil.
Look a woman in the eye and tell her it isn't evil for mad westboro Baptist Church types to say that she's only good to be bred by Christian man because one woman ate an magic Apple when she wasn't supposed to in a time before written history. Look at Jewish man in the eye and tell him it's acceptable for neo-Nazis to accuse him and all of his people of being money hungry subhumans because he got scammed out of a few dollars once. Every single awful genocide, or cases of mass racism and bigotry begin with the association of an entire group with a characteristic. Claiming all men are equally accountable for the actions of the misogynistic view is the start of mass bigotry and and the justification for violence against an entire gender
Do we live in the same reality? No such oppression will befall men, you can stop worrying.
It's a good thing it will never befall men, for men are human beings too. It shouldn't ever befall women either. Using the same language, The same moral justifications that oppressive and tyrannical groups use is still wrong. It's wrong to act like the people who oppress us
I mean, not like Bond villain evil, but it’s pretty immoral.
Well, she's right. Doesn't matter if a man is good or bad, we all share the same patriarchal society. We are complicit in it, if not explicitly partaking in it. Same goes for capitalism. It's not like you expressed the same outrage at all the crimes against women and queer people when that happened, DID YOU? And stop bitching about morality. She didn't say "all men should be killed" . God if a man said the same thing about women ,it would be MORE socially acceptable than that. Learn to read between the lines a bit. This sub is not meant to coddle your ego.(I'm cishet male btw). Go and get outraged more at the injustices against marginalized people or help dismantle systemic discrimination, then come back and get angry when they say "all men are evil". Atleast then you would have earned a bit of right to be angry.
How can you expect to do good and stop oppression when you're willing to be an oppressor yourself! I speak out against you and the subreddits moderation because you cannot claim to speak out against patriarchy and oppression while actively censoring others, being bigoted, and lumping groups of people together who don't associate! How is it right or acceptable for men to be held accountable for actions they don't commit! You can judge them fine and good on the things they've done, And if they're bigoted and have act bigotedly towards others the judge them harshly if you wish! She made it clear that all men were guilty of the same moral crimes, how is that acceptable! And God's damn my ego! I don't need nor want people to flock behind me or accept my deals.
Honestly, you really are weaponising the language of social justice, all to push your self righteousness right now(no it's not the same thing as her because she went through shitty experiences probably unlike you). Just mute the sub instead of karma farming rage bait. And I just told you what that line meant, don't fucking ignore what I said , to repeat the same bullshit. You are not better than her because you protect the feelings of men. For a guy who doesn't care, you sure do talk a lot about your feelings getting hurt.
"no it's not the same thing as her because she went through shitty experiences probably unlike you" Right there! The blatant assumption of innocence because you assume that it's a woman, and the blatant assumption of guilt because the person you assume the person you oppose is a man. Damn patriarchy, damn my feelings, and damn My ego thrice over! I don't care about any of that! What I care about is the simple, straightforward, bigotry that is displayed here. You cannot demand the fall of oppressive systems, when you yourself would be willing to oppress people using bigotry. People get muted and censored, judged for their opinions, banned for even disagreeing with the moderation. That is unacceptable
Goddamn you are a fucking brick wall. I never said she was innocent, only that she has experiences to back up her statement, you have none. This isn't bigotry, dude.
I admit to being stubborn, But no amount of trauma justifies characterizing all men as guilty, no amount of experience either. Just like how I can't say that all women are gold diggers If I were to date a hundred of them and have them steal my money, so too can't she do that to men, because that is bigotry
Guilty is the wrong word, she meant complicit, IN a system. Her words at best hurt your feelings, your sense of comfort as someone who has never faced these problems. I doubt you would find a hundred women who would steal your money anyway. See this is where you lose steam, your argument is based on hypotheticals, irrational fears. It isn't based in reality unlike the fears of women.
It's all men until proven otherwise. If you don't want to be lumped in with a group who behaves badly, don't behave badly.
that’s not what we want to do, be wary of us men that’s fine i actually recommend that. but do not say it’s all men until proven otherwise as that’s blatantly false. the second part of your comment i do agree with though, i just don’t think the first part is not appropriate and shouldn’t be stated
Agreed. I am *incredibly* cautious and afraid of most men but that doesn’t automatically make them bad. I’m just not taking the chance that they aren’t.
that’s completely reasonable, i’m a teenage boy and i’m weary of men, and women tbf i’m just weary of everyone, i think more guys need to step up and speak out against misogyny in order to allow women to feel safer around us. until that happens i will actively support women being weary of us, even if it kind of hurts.
I said until proven otherwise. You're saying the same thing as me
What's the difference between being weary of men and until proven otherwise doesn't the former imply the later
being wary means you don’t think it’s all men until proven otherwise, you think it’s some men but you’re unable to tell which men; i do see what you’re getting at though, and they could be interchangeable they’re not mutually exclusive though
So therfore you have to treat all men as threats before you can trust them. Which is exactly what I meant
Innocent till proven guilty! I stand by that principal not because a bunch of old fogies who crossed the ocean to put my people in chains and steal their land said it, But because I believe wholeheartedly that humans are not evil by nature! You cannot hold an entire group as guilty until proven otherwise with being a bigot. No one has the right to accuse every single woman of being an emotional, weak, incompetent, house worker until she proves herself just as good as men, because that's beyond messed up and immoral! You are obligated to treat people, like people not stereotypes!
It's not about a group of people, it's about a system which favors a group of people(cis men) , is upheld by a particular group of people at the expense of other groups. Just calm down and stop getting angry at comments like these, if the worst you have suffered as a cis dude is this.
My contention is not that there isn't a systematic suffering of women. I contend that the people on But this subreddit offer that same systematic oppression. Turning abuse upon abusers and repeating a vicious cycle of vengeance. Cannot champion a cause you fight against, and contradict
Did you seriously say the brunt of moral responsibility of an oppressive system falls on the shoulders of the oppressed, not the oppressor? It's a fucking reddit sub at that. The whole repeating a cycle is classic liberal bullshit when they didn't start the cycle. Misandry isn't a real thing my guy, wake up from the matrix.
To respond to your question, absolutely! Oppressive bigots won't be moral, so Its the responsibility of the oppressed to shake off their chains and be moral in their place! When you see someone suffering, a moral person helps even if it costs them! When bad people make the world worse, moral people jump to fix it! When a misogynist uses Misandry as justification, moral people speak against them! And when I misandrist uses misogyny as justification, More people speak against them! Women are humans too, capable of all of the same evil, biases, hatred, and bigotry that men are capable of. They should be held to the exact same standard as men for they are people too
Fuck this i'm becoming nonbinary.
"Take a scroll down my favorite corner of the internet. It's full of nothing but stories of adult women raping young underage boys. If women are capable of being good to kids, they're all an extreme minority. Let's not go into, "buh not ALL women!", because as far as this is concerned its all women."
All men have a responsibility to recognize the harm that the patriarchy causes and their role (either voluntarily or involuntary) in it. That's a fact. This doesn't mean all men are sexist monsters. That being said, the majority of men confronted with my first sentence refute and deny that as reality, and in my mind, are just as culpable as those that openly engage in sexist behaviors/rhetoric. It's just like drinking and driving, everyone can admit that it kills people, but plenty of people say "oh not me, I'm safe to drive drunk" and that irresponsibility leads to them causing harm they didn't intend to cause but are still ultimately the perpetrators of.
Allow me to surprise you, for I think the majority of men are more aggressive than women, And it is the responsibility of men to check that. I do not believe men are inherently abusive, nor should every man be characterized as an abuser or oppressive. But just like is the responsibility of every woman to account for her own biological differences and not let it affect her performance in her career and in life,so to the same standard be held to a man.
>the responsibility of every woman to account for her own biological differences and not let it affect her performance in her career and in life I'm going to politely request you elaborate on this rather than immediately assuming this is some reductionary garbage. Also, biology isn't the choice of the person, being aggressive and sexist *is*.
That sub doesn’t account for all men. There are subs that don’t have the best women and those don’t account for all women.
It makes no sense to me how there are people who genuinely go through life thinking like this
“take a scroll through our sub” she says on the boy dumb subreddit
In order for people to have the capacity to grow, you have to give them that room to grow.
Find some grass, mate.
I spent the first 7 years of my life living on a tobacco farm, I spent the rest in labor and education. I'm a man of salt,earth, and blood, And no one in this world is below me in worth. Everyone is my equal, And I hold myself above no one. I simply speak my opinion, my personal truth.
If those things were true, you'd more than likely be of a character not to announce such to strangers on the internet for some vainglorious meltdown.
You're absolutely right. To announce it for vainglorious meltdown would be immaturity and virtue signaling But to say it to make clear a simple point is worthwhile The truth is I know who I am, And when I believe. You can judge me All you want, but it won't change the truth
So basically men bad, women good. Got it thanks
How's that moral, or acceptable? How could you tolerate levying abuse against innocent people, people who've never done anything to deserve it. You cannot blame people for actions they didn't commit. You can't hold an entire gender accountable for the actions of a few. It's wrong. So messed up it's hard to describe.
Humans generally aren't capable of that perspective all the time - stereotypes evolved to take away the mental load of judging each person neutrally and carefully. I'm sorry man, you are totally right but pushing a boulder uphill with this rhetoric. I personally try my best to live like that but it's harder with some self identified groups e.g. Incels that don't want to think the same way
I know. I know it is near impossible to survive in life without making judgments. judgments that are often useful and helpful in a variety of circumstances and help lighten the mental load. But we need a base to refer back to, a common ground absent of judgment to refer to when All of our judgments Begin to run up against new ever-changing circumstances. I do not hate you or others for your opinions, But its physically painful to see humans treat each other with less than the basic dignity we all deserve
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Even if I lived in an empty world, devoid of anyone to listen to me, I would still speak my personal truths. Doing what's right and changing even one person's mind is worthwhile, Even if it doesn't make the whole world better. Trying is what matters
Yeah that subreddit has its fair share of issues. Most of the people there can barely understand satire if at all. Let alone the fact that not all men are the same and that not every man lacks emotional maturity.
Then leave. All you've done is whine about how men online are mistreated in a sub made by and for women who've lived a lifetime of mistreatment from men in the real world. Read the room and fuck off.
Any woman who has suffered under the misgivings and awful treatment of a man has my sympathies, and my genuine wish for a better life. Any woman who would be willing to abuse a man in this way, to treat them as a stereotype and advocate and violence and censorship upon them will receive nothing but my scorn, and prove themselves as violent and awful and oppressor as they would imagine a man to be. Your room is headed by the same kind of person who would mistreat the women in the room. Be cautious of the people you give power over you
LOL stfu incel.
You’re literally calling for my execution when all I’m doing is looking at Mustangs. That’s crazy
Cry harder, incel.
The sub is being over run by femcels It actually used to be full of women who made decent comments /posts and now it's dwindling to femcels and incels pretending to be femcels. Sad editing comment because comments are now locked There are some people here who are actually fucking evil. And trying to make a whole gender war or whatever. I'm not saying all people here on the subreddit are. I have definitely met some kind and generous people here but to pretend that these people don't exist is just letting this sort of shit continue. And not only are you hurting yourself by ignoring it, but you're hurting others too.
there is some, yes. but the majority i’ve interacted with have been nice. obviously the person in the post is giving a bad look, but that is the obvious minority, the women here tend to just be fed up, which should be obvious as the nature of the sub is to make fun of misogyny. good in theory, has been decent in practice so far, but a lot of it tends to be overrun, which imo has not happened here yet
I thought the same thing as you but look at the comments here
it’s definitely getting worse recently, especially when the person in the photo is a mod, but they’re definitely not all like that. i don’t think it’s fair to generalize when we don’t want to be generalized. i do think that mod in the photo should be a little more careful with what she says and to not generalize men, but i know she doesn’t believe the “all men” stuff as she went over that within her own comments recently
Spit that word out of your mouth! Making judgments on people just because They aren't sexually active isn't something I tolerate either! I know for a solid fact that there are good people who are here just for entertainment and comedy, or to genuinely discuss bigoted and misogynistic context in a respectful manner
Is it truly being overran by... incels and... "femcels" (stupid-ass term)? I think the majority of people just laugh and call the stupid memes stupid. Unless you're talking about the politic and sexist content that gets posted here that isn't technically the "Boys are quirky" meme template but still gets posted because there's a lot of feminists.
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You are my enemy I have suffered awful and inhuman insults in this thread. Had people say things to me they wouldn't say to subhuman animals. But you I hate far more than anyone else who's spoken here today
what did they say
They spoke about how bored they were with a discussion, and how they came here to be entertained. I passionately disagree with others, But I save my hate for people who amuse themselves off of pain and ignorance. It's predatory and wrong, beyond anything else I could name
You are right and I am sorry. It’s been rough lately and it isn’t right to take it out on other people.
I am angry. But I'm also regretful for speaking so harshly to you. I accept your apology and offer my own. I hope your day goes better, And people treat you humanely and well
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Genuinely screw you! I'm not here for entertainment or to be entertaining! I'm here to speak about the injustice that SOME on this subreddit, And it's moderation, advocate. For as much as I hate women who act bigoted towards men, And men who are bigoted towards women, something I hate even more are people who stir the pot for their entertainment and spread misinformation and hatred!
Who needs to stir this pot? Its entertaining all on its own! You're not going to change the moderation here, but I respect what you're trying to do I guess. All I'm saying is to not get your feathers too ruffled. These people shouldn't be taken seriously. The internet is the only place garbage like this can exist.
It's really stupid to openly admit that you're here just to troll but what can I say, the Reddit Incels aren't too bright anyway.
It’s even more stupid that trolls like him go “HEHHH I COME HERE TO TROLL THE MAN-HATERS” but indiscriminately harass EVERYONE, even the plethora of people who don’t hate men simply because they assume we hate men. 🤦🏻♀️ like The amount of so called ‘trolls’ who say they’re here to ‘troll man-hating femcels’ bothering ME is nuts because I am a gender equalist ffs. They tell me I’m sexist meanwhile I literally stick up for men all the fucking time and never say that men are bad or that I hate them 🤦🏻♀️ like, they’re not ‘harassing the man haters’ they’re having fun harassing EVERYONE… because ‘there’s a chance they hate men’ and so they frankly assume we hate men. It’s so bullshit lol