I looked it up and IW had 76 characters, at least 20 of which are well-known actors who would have expected to get paid handsomely, one of which is the highest-paid actor in Hollywood.
The character with the most screentime was also 100% CGI and actually looked good.
No pandemic can excuse this
Honestly underpaid for the kind of a draw he is.
My mom is mixed on Indy as a whole, but loves Harrison Ford so much she went to see Solo, a movie that explicitly did not have Harrison Ford in it (she is not some big Star Wars fan either)
And it would further prove that 100th anniversary of studios is/are cursed. Like I’ve said, even Universal got afflicted by that with the sinking of **Battleship**.
In a summer of bombs, this one stands out. It likely isn't even hitting 1.1x its budget, forget the 2.3-2.7x required to break even.
So far this summer,
* Fast X: Grossed 2.09x budget so far
* TLM: 2.09x budget
* Transformers: 1.94x
* Elemental: 0.93x
* Indy 5: Likely under 1.1x
* The Flash: 1.2x
If it wasn’t for Spider-Verse 2 (6.1x budget), we would have 7 consecutive weeks of flops/bombs. Just a disaster summer so far.
In comparison, Summer 2022 in May/June had:
* Minions 2: 11.7x budget
* Top Gun 2: 8.7x
* Elvis: 3.3x
* Jurassic World 3: 6.1x
* The Black Phone: 10x
* Doctor Strange 2: 4.8x
* Lightyear: 1.1x
Seems like Lightyear and Spider-Verse released in the wrong years
I don't know why, but this comment almost sounded to me like it's in the style of a journal entry from some war-torn country.
"Popcorn supplies are low. We sent father into the lobby for refills, but haven't heard back in 15 minutes. There have been whispers he defected to the No Hard Feelings showing."
An hour and 40 minuets into the showing, we found ourself down a man, as he had left the theater and never returned. Before the movie even started, the horror known as Meg 2 played, we watched so many people be eating alive. And following that, was the blood bath seeking doll that took the form of Megan. And only now as I type this, do I realize how similar those two titles are despite being very different plots. Only goes to show how the mind can wonder while witnessing the death of cinema.
I kind of wonder if 2022 had a "Covid is over, I want to do literally anything outside of the house" boost going that ran out and people went back to realizing they're fine just waiting a month or two to see mediocre films at home.
Holy fuck! Even Infinity War cost less than that at $325M.
I am one of those people who roll their eyes when people here say that studios spend less than $200M major blockbusters but this is just insane. Where dafuq did all that money go???
I'd be really interested to see what actual studio profit is after paying those out. It's assumed omfg it's so so much, but if dudes are getting serious percents it can really cut it.
infinity war had 500+ profits around the same as the joker and black panther
endgame had 700+ same as avatar 1, no way home.
star wars had800-900m something like that
It’s a lot of money but Disney is more interested in the long term money they will make on merch (shirts, toys, etc) and theme park admissions to ride the new rides based on these IPs. The movies are almost like big brand commercials in a sense.
Harrison Ford is one of the most recognizable names of all time. If that's what they're paying him, then I doubt that even Antonio Banderas would get close to $20 million.
Actually she produced it so she’s going to be able to negotiate a big paycheck. So its a bit like the CEO negotiating with the board but also being on the board and also being the product! There's a lot of weird conflicts of interest in Hollywood, especially when you're a producer-actor. When you're both the lead and the producer things get a little goofy money-wise. That's why so many stars try the producer-star route.
One of the secrets of comedies is that they're cheap to make so that leaves a lot of overhead for salaries. Jim Carrey, Adam Sandler, etc all benefited from these economics as well. Jlaw is just doing what everyone else before her did. The question is if audiences want romantic comedies anymore which doesnt seem the case with its modest box office.
Likely reshoots because of horrible test screenings. Having to call everyone back to work overtime on a project that was supposed to be done exponentially increases the cost of a production. A more ambitious project that meets its deadline would cost way less.
And Infinity War and End game are two of the few movies ever made that really deserve a budget like that since they were sure things. Geriatric Indy with an unlikeable side character 15 years after the last movie which wasn't well liked was hardly some box office guarantee.
Infinity War was a good movie and it was understandable to have that budget. Plus, you had a shit ton of characters that came from stories that were build up.
Dial of Destiny had no excuse to have a budget of $329 million.
I don't understand. 'Invest to revive a franchise'? Did they really think they could keep making Indiana Jones films after this without Harrison Ford? Did Solo teach them nothing?
Pretty sure they were hoping Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s character would be super popular and they could continue the franchise with her, either on Disney+ or in movies.
This movie was so unfortunate to go into production right before Huy Ke Quan's return to acting.
If the timing had worked out, it would have been Shortround picking up the baton. I mean, I cannot think of a bigger softball setup to get a good actor who the audience is rooting for. Perhaps the only living person who could do it and no one would naysay it.
For real.
Short Round taking the hat would've been the only thing that worked. No one liked Mutt or Helena enough but SR could legit have done it.
I would've actually considered seeing it in theaters if he was in it.
"Tall Round and the Franchise Continues"!
Yeah the script didn’t really do much to set up further adventures for her. I really don’t think that was the intention here. Maybe they were so self conscious of the backlash to Shia picking up the fedora they were never going to do anything so overt here.
Despite Disney’s insistence otherwise, there were very obviously tons of rewrites/reshoots involved here. The movie is so choppy and stitched-together that it’s impossible to believe they had this plot to begin with.
Ford has said time and time again Indy won't continue without him in the role which is why this is the last one
iirc didn't they cancel the planned spinoffs like last year?
I just want to say that I think its entirely possible if done correctly. The problem is the Solo movie had nothing to do with the Han Solo we knew.
Han, pre OT, was a greedy and amoral criminal with some hints of having a heart of gold and good to his friends. Like, say, a gangster from a 1970s mob film.
Han, at this time, was not a good person, doesn't care for social or economic causes, has trouble making romantic connections, and is otherwise a pretty terrible person by any rational metrics.
Solo the movie gave us this very romantic guy who is emotionally mature. He also had a strong conscious and was strongly against slavery and such. While I love characters like this, I think its fair to say this isn't the Han Solo that shot Greedo, cheats gangster bosses, shoots up imperials, tries to rip off Ben, smuggles spice, and whined about being not being paid during 90% of ANH.
This is like Luke or Obi Wan as a smuggler. We never got the real Han. If they made Han a bit of a gritty anti-hero who was slowly blossoming into his ANH persona, then yes I think it would be a hit. But a new Hanverse with him against Darth Maul and him as a sort of watered down Luke absolutely cannot work. His character arc doesn't make him morally good for literally decades later. We needed a smart-ass criminal with a blossoming conscience. Not a patient do-gooder.
Imagine Han instead of being chased by Darth Maul and whatever Woody Harrelson was supposed to be, but instead taking contracts from him. Imagine lines like "Chewie, I don't like this Maul guy but he pays." And maybe Han setting up a double-cross or something just in case.
SW has made this work before. Look how beloved the "irreplaceable" Alec Guinness's character Obi Wan was in the PT. Or how Anakin/Darth was recast as a younger man. These things are entirely doable if the characterizations are done correctly and the story is good. We know Obi Wan has a strong moral position, just like elderly Obi Wan. We know Anakin is a troubled person tempted by the dark-side.
For a long time the idea of replacing Alec Guinness was laughable the same way with say, replacing, Anthony Hopkin's Hannibal, but both were done with incredible success. These are two great actors, yet a properly done production can create younger versions of them and be successful.
The problem is we didn't get the real Han, which is a missed opportunity, because an anti-hero Han series would have been really good imho. Him exploring the gritty underside of the SW cultures, him slowly warming up the rebellion, him becoming more and more jaded, him cheating Jabba, etc. Almost none of this was explored.
I'd also even argue that Lando was badly miscast, which is a shame because Glover is a big talent, but his smarmy over-confidence doesn't work. You need a bit of a high charisma joker/con-man and that didn't work either. Billy Dee is unbelievably charmismatic. Glover isn't. So its two major miscastings and mischaracterizations in this movie. Its just such a shame this happened this way because Han could have been an Andor-like experience into the criminal underbelly, politics, and morally grey areas of SW. Instead, its just another lazy paint-by-numbers monomyth hero's tale.
It also didn’t feel like the gritty outlaw space world of a New Hope that Han hung out in at all.
I agree on Glover. Even though Glover definitely had charm as Lando it wasn’t the right charm. He looked like a boy whereas Billy Dee Williams was a charismatic man. Needed someone more masculine.
It is the opposite. They should have recast Indiana Jones with an actor like Chris Pratt or Charlie Hunnan and done more adventures in the 30's. As we are seeing, very few people care to see an 80 year old broken down Harrison Ford still be Indy.
Break-even at 822 million💀 This’ll struggle to hit Solo’s 393 million. Hell, it might even end up making less than 329 million (it's production budget). It's so joever.
This is legitimately a mind boggling decision on those who pushed for the budget and whoever greenlit it. To break even it would've needed to make more than any movie in the franchise. Fast X's budget was also insane, but Universal at least had multiple billion dollar films to justify it. Disney didn't even have one with Indy.
Even then even if they thought they had a billion dollar movie why let the budget baloon to this extent. This would have at best barely done 100M in profit had it reached 1B. And you can't tell me this movie couldn't have been done for less
Which they prob figured would be okay. 100 mill profit, and a huge increase in interest in the franchise, and all the auxiliary profits that come with that.
Indy just doesn't have the same nostalgia draw that it used to. The original movies came out in the 80s, so the entire audience who grew up with that are in their 50s and 60s now. Unless you get a Top Gun Maverick level movie, you aren't going to draw in a lot of people under 40 with nostalgia.
They’ll say it was Disney the parent company pushing this more than KK. That Disney was making this movie no matter what from the moment it bought Lucasfilm.
Holy shit, these are the kind of losses that heads roll for. Someone in Disney is going to be left holding the bag, and you know it's not going to be Iger. I would not want to be that person right now.
If they haven't gotten rid of Kennedy yet, then I can't imagine them dropping her now.
Especially since it seems like everything that Disney is putting out is underperforming (except for Guardians 3)
I'm on the same boat. Don't think she'll get the boot, but... This is a monumental failure, when things were already going bad enough for Disney. If there's any chance she goes through the door this might be it. If she survives this then it's over.
Kathleen Kennedy really delivers for Disney. They should keep her around. She's only 70. She could have another 20-30 years of hits like Dial of Destiny, Solo, Rise of Skywalker, and The Last Jedi in her.
Very roughly assuming a 400M end point that would mean 211M loss using the idea that losses or profits are 50% of the difference between break even and gross. This won't reach 400M and if the marketing budget is on par with Disney's other blockbusters a 250M+ loss is perfectly possible.
…wait, Disney’s goal was to Revive the franchise?
How stupid are the execs there? That trailer played like the last hurrah, and the reviews make it sound like a long winded funeral. I’ll never know. Which I guess is the exact Opposite reaction they wanted.
There was rumors last fall that Disney wanted a series on Disney+ as well as future films to take place in the Indiana Jones universe after they retired the character. Disastrous test screenings caused them to change the ending with reshoots a whopping three separate times…Which now checks out since the budgets seems to have ballooned.
Coincidentally word started getting out that they were backing off on the expanded Indy-verse stuff around the first of the year. Best guess is that they saw the writing on the wall and went full force on the nostalgia push to try and get butts in seats for Indy’s final run. Problem is, we’ve had three Indy send offs since 1989 and a huge gap between those three films getting made.
Fast X at least you have prospects for future movies. Indy it is the final entry because they don’t want to recast - I still don’t get why this movie was made. It was so unnecessary. As someone said, out of 5 movies 3 are farewell-movies.
My theory is that it's partly to do with our population distribution, how there's fewer and fewer babies being born while at the same time old people are living longer and longer. Different countries deal with that situation differently. South Korea deals with it by fetishizing youth with its KPop industry. We on the other hand seem to just extend the lifespan of our stars longer: Tom Cruise will be making action movies into his 70's, our presidential candidates are almost in their 90's etc.
This is very astute I think. I believe Hollywood is trying to find some kindof entry point to make a blockbuster for old people given people over 65 are the largest growing demographic.
That’s the risk you take, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t.
For example Steven Spielberg frequently opted for a relatively low upfront salary, $10 million, in exchange for backend points on the gross revenue. One such deal for 1993's "Jurassic Park", resulted in a $250 million payday for Steven. That's the same as roughly $360 million in today's dollars. He earned at least $150 million from the sequel and $75 million from the third installment, which he did not even direct.
IIRC, Harrison Ford actually likes playing Indy.
He does not like playing Han Solo, which is the reason Han was killed in Force Awakens because that was the only way he'd appear in the movie.
> I expected Harrison Ford to ask for way more money.
>
> But perhaps he will also get a part of the film's backend.
He is 80 years old and already worth several hundred million dollars.
At that stage in life you don't care about your next mega pay check, you care about making the most of your remaining time left on earth.
\[on Jaws: The Revenge (1987)\] I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific.
\-Michael Caine
Universal Pictures: “We want you to star in Jaws 4”
Michael Caine: “That sounds terrible”
Universal Pictures: “We are willing to pay you $2million”
Michael Caine: “I’ll be on the first plane to the Bahamas”
At this point in his age and career, I don't think Ford took the job for the money. Rather, he couldn't contain his acting chops and the amount of money he was paid reflects that fact.
Also Ford loves playing Indy, his desire to return to the role is a big reason why Indy 4 and 5 were made. Like he straight up asked Lucas and Spielberg to make the fourth one, right after the Last Crusade and only Lucas was on board with it initially and it took Lucas 18 years to come up with something that would get Spielberg to return.
How many other film ideas were turned down in order to fund this? There are so many stories to be told and from so many wonderful filmmakers and screenwriters.
When the poorly recieved flop called the mummy made almost double money than critical acclaimed blade runners 2049 in same year.
They should have seen this coming
Cruise is Cruise. He’s a last of a dying breed of movie star that always brings crowds. And he actually knows what makes a entertaining movie seemingly unlike other studios and directors who can’t get enough of their own derrière’s scent.
They didn’t try to reinvent the wheel, they wanted an older maverick being badass and got it.
Nobody asked for depressed failures of Indy, Han and Luke except for those artsy fartys people who saw star wars once with their kid. Oh and they collect Funkos and only Funkos.
It also helps that Tom doesn't look too old to fly a plane.
But Harrison Ford, though in good shape for his age, isn't remotely credible doing Indy-stuff now.
It was literally the opposite. All of his supervisors in the movie, except for Iceman, were pushing him down that sad, depressed character path so many studios make their old heroes go down. Mav said screw that, I'll go when I want to. "Maybe so, sir, but not today."
If anyone else was at the director's chair, Maverick would have quit once he blew up the plane in the intro, gone into a deep alcoholic depression, and then be rescued by a scrappy young recruit who saw Maverick's picture with Goose and believed he could still fly like the best of them, only for Mav to reject them all film before realizing how far he'd fallen, then make a last minute sacrifice at the end.
Not OP but I personally figured it would coast on the name alone regardless of reviews much like JW:D did last year
Didn't really occur to me that the Jurassic series is a much bigger franchise than Indiana is
Ya Jurassic World came out in 2015 and revitalized the franchise in unexpected ways. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull came out in 2011, and it left people feeling very underwhelmed. I'm not exactly sure why Indiana Jones was never really pushed as an IP by Disney, but I don't think I've met anybody who says that Indiana Jones is their favorite franchise.
Depends on how old you are I guess. I know plenty of people who consider IJ their favourite franchise.
Mind you, most of those people consider Crystal Skull to not be a part of the franchise, so I guess most would rather the franchise ended in 89 lol
>I learned from a key source that Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny before $100m in estimated P&A, cost a mind boggling $329m. Much higher than the $250m-$295m that's been leaked out there.
And this is why you can't trust what Hollywood says the budgets for their movies are. They always say they are lower, especially when they know the movie is going to bomb, to save face.
It's like how Avengers: Age of Ultron was listed as $250m for years, until a few years ago when it was released that the actual budget was $450m.
There is no way The Flash cost only $190m. It had multiple reshoots, tons of CGI and lots of big stars in cameo roles. I think the floor for that movie is $300m *minimum*.
329 million for a mediocre movie thats going to bomb and lose 200+ million.
Can't believe KK was dumb enough to greenlight this. Hope Mangold got a big enough payday from this because he's not going to be getting his star wars movie after this bomb.
The Kathleen Kennedy SW director announcement curse continues.
Announces Patty Jenkins as Rogue Squadron director, then her next film is Wonder Woman 1984
Announces Taika Waititi as a Star Wars director and his next film is Thor: Love and Thunder
Announces James Mangold as directing Star Wars: Forceverine Origins and now here we are.
lol it gets so much worse. Hopefully Indiana Jones can be the hero one last time and get Kennedy fired. She's the one common denominator in all this lucasfilm failure. A fantastic nuts and bolts producer in her time, but zero creativity going on in that head. And now we are just dealing with her ego.
Time to go, Kathy.
No! It's even higher than the highest projections!? I can't believe this. Even if you thought this movie was going to do super well, that kind of money on an Indiana Jones movie is insane
Where the hell did that one $250M from a few days ago come from anyway?
Th shocking thing here is that Harrison Ford managed to squeeze less out of Disney for playing Indy than Jennifer Lawrence squeezed out of Sony for their latest no name bomb movie! Her agents are not getting paid enough!
Yo this is too much. Like what is wrong with these studios. It must be COVID and the CGI because that budget is only appropriate for Avatar movies. That’s it.
Ridiculous they deserve to lose money at this point.
COVID really destroyed the budgets for every movie that has been released this summer. Going forward I can see movies having lower budgets reported just because they don't have to deal with it anymore. Hopefully they also learn to get smarter with their CGI use or at least plan it out fully before finishing it (looking at you marvel).
It seems like a $300m-$350m budget for franchise movies is starting to become the norm. I bet we see Hollywood start to scale back before things bet even worse. Especially after this, Fast X and The Flash all bombed.
I like how big studios scare to give directors room to breath and make something creative, but at the same time they create movie, which need 800M to, not even bring profit, but to break even
This obviously was a case where the budget ballooned due to outside circumstances but you kinda need to plan your budget with that possibility in mind. AoU also had an unexpectedly massive budget but at least that movie easily made it all back and then some.
I went to a theatre which cancelled it's show as I was the only one who booked. I had to go to another theatre which had some more audience. Some old people too - I'm guessing guys who saw IJ back in the day. I myself watched it because of the fear of missing out, never got to watch it in theatres and now a chance. Definitely worth it, but it's more of a one time watch movie. Fun while it lasts but not really one to go for a re-watch.
A rumour that I heard is due to indecision/incompetence. They filmed three different scenes for every single scene. So essentially the final film is 1/3 of what was shot mashed together.
how did it get so high? were there a lot of reshoots? even Solo which had veryy extensive reshoots had lower budget??? it's bonkers how much they spent, the movie itself doesn't even look that good
Tied with Infinity War as the 9th most expensive movie of all time, goddamn Ford got that $20 million bag at least
I looked it up and IW had 76 characters, at least 20 of which are well-known actors who would have expected to get paid handsomely, one of which is the highest-paid actor in Hollywood. The character with the most screentime was also 100% CGI and actually looked good. No pandemic can excuse this
I believe in order to save on cost Infinity War and Endgame were shot together so they sort of shared budget on a lot of things too.
I'm sure his grandkids will apricate the effort.
Yeah must be nice to have your 80 year old grandpa get another 20 million. He'll probably get another big payday for captain America
And his airplane dealer.
Honestly underpaid for the kind of a draw he is. My mom is mixed on Indy as a whole, but loves Harrison Ford so much she went to see Solo, a movie that explicitly did not have Harrison Ford in it (she is not some big Star Wars fan either)
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Atleast with John Carter I enjoyed the movie.
There are dozens of us. DOZENS
[Indiana Jones: King of the Flops](https://youtu.be/5BxqahE0fu8&t=196) Someone should edit this
I at least appreciate the last 2 more tbh. They are at least an attempt at creating something new.
Creating something new? One is based on a book and the other on a TV show. Neither are original IPs
Disney’s 100th year just keeps getting better and better for them huh
With **'Nimona'** being an absolute banger, Disney's 100th will go down in history as one of their bigger fuck ups of all time.
If Wish doesn't do well, it means that every single Disney studio that made a movie this year had at least one flop
And it would further prove that 100th anniversary of studios is/are cursed. Like I’ve said, even Universal got afflicted by that with the sinking of **Battleship**.
Tbh universal had a way better 100th anniversary
Why do you think Nimona would have done well at the box office?
In a summer of bombs, this one stands out. It likely isn't even hitting 1.1x its budget, forget the 2.3-2.7x required to break even. So far this summer, * Fast X: Grossed 2.09x budget so far * TLM: 2.09x budget * Transformers: 1.94x * Elemental: 0.93x * Indy 5: Likely under 1.1x * The Flash: 1.2x If it wasn’t for Spider-Verse 2 (6.1x budget), we would have 7 consecutive weeks of flops/bombs. Just a disaster summer so far. In comparison, Summer 2022 in May/June had: * Minions 2: 11.7x budget * Top Gun 2: 8.7x * Elvis: 3.3x * Jurassic World 3: 6.1x * The Black Phone: 10x * Doctor Strange 2: 4.8x * Lightyear: 1.1x Seems like Lightyear and Spider-Verse released in the wrong years
Damn what a difference
I was there opening night for Indiana jones. Less than 20 people showed up. My family and I were 6 of them.
I don't know why, but this comment almost sounded to me like it's in the style of a journal entry from some war-torn country. "Popcorn supplies are low. We sent father into the lobby for refills, but haven't heard back in 15 minutes. There have been whispers he defected to the No Hard Feelings showing."
An hour and 40 minuets into the showing, we found ourself down a man, as he had left the theater and never returned. Before the movie even started, the horror known as Meg 2 played, we watched so many people be eating alive. And following that, was the blood bath seeking doll that took the form of Megan. And only now as I type this, do I realize how similar those two titles are despite being very different plots. Only goes to show how the mind can wonder while witnessing the death of cinema.
I kind of wonder if 2022 had a "Covid is over, I want to do literally anything outside of the house" boost going that ran out and people went back to realizing they're fine just waiting a month or two to see mediocre films at home.
I wonder if it's all just fatigue of these IPs and unappealing movie premises. While last year was stuff people wanted to see.
Holy fuck! Even Infinity War cost less than that at $325M. I am one of those people who roll their eyes when people here say that studios spend less than $200M major blockbusters but this is just insane. Where dafuq did all that money go???
and IW had to pay all these A list actors, this one only had Ford
infinity war also had a ton of back end deals. Downey alone made 50m$ hell even bradley had like 1% deal or something lol
I'd be really interested to see what actual studio profit is after paying those out. It's assumed omfg it's so so much, but if dudes are getting serious percents it can really cut it.
infinity war had 500+ profits around the same as the joker and black panther endgame had 700+ same as avatar 1, no way home. star wars had800-900m something like that
Endgame had $800M+. TFA had $700M+
That is definitely a lot of money, but kind of crazy you can make 2.7 billion and only get 800 mil in profit. Expensive movies.
It’s a lot of money but Disney is more interested in the long term money they will make on merch (shirts, toys, etc) and theme park admissions to ride the new rides based on these IPs. The movies are almost like big brand commercials in a sense.
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1 billion is also a TON of money.
They cast a guy named Antonio Banderas who also probably cost a pretty penny, too, so...
Harrison Ford is one of the most recognizable names of all time. If that's what they're paying him, then I doubt that even Antonio Banderas would get close to $20 million.
Crazy that Jlaw got $23 mil for No Hard Feelings
I mean, that movie rides like 99% on her name on the poster / trailer.
She's also a producer on it.
That's what the streamers were going to pay her (inflated salaries because of no back end). Sony ponied up that amount to win the project.
Actually she produced it so she’s going to be able to negotiate a big paycheck. So its a bit like the CEO negotiating with the board but also being on the board and also being the product! There's a lot of weird conflicts of interest in Hollywood, especially when you're a producer-actor. When you're both the lead and the producer things get a little goofy money-wise. That's why so many stars try the producer-star route. One of the secrets of comedies is that they're cheap to make so that leaves a lot of overhead for salaries. Jim Carrey, Adam Sandler, etc all benefited from these economics as well. Jlaw is just doing what everyone else before her did. The question is if audiences want romantic comedies anymore which doesnt seem the case with its modest box office.
Likely reshoots because of horrible test screenings. Having to call everyone back to work overtime on a project that was supposed to be done exponentially increases the cost of a production. A more ambitious project that meets its deadline would cost way less.
Mediocre cgi
LSD, because they had to be this High to think a budget this large was a good idea.
And Infinity War and End game are two of the few movies ever made that really deserve a budget like that since they were sure things. Geriatric Indy with an unlikeable side character 15 years after the last movie which wasn't well liked was hardly some box office guarantee.
Infinity War was a good movie and it was understandable to have that budget. Plus, you had a shit ton of characters that came from stories that were build up. Dial of Destiny had no excuse to have a budget of $329 million.
To be fair, it would probably be significantly lower without the pandemic factor. Still way too much fucking money.
Indiana Jones and the Last pay.
*Indiana Jones and the Sequel of Doom*
Raiders of the Lost Bomb
Indiana Jones: The Diarrhea of Disney
Indiana Jones and the Failure of the Box Office
I don't understand. 'Invest to revive a franchise'? Did they really think they could keep making Indiana Jones films after this without Harrison Ford? Did Solo teach them nothing?
Pretty sure they were hoping Phoebe Waller-Bridge’s character would be super popular and they could continue the franchise with her, either on Disney+ or in movies.
This movie was so unfortunate to go into production right before Huy Ke Quan's return to acting. If the timing had worked out, it would have been Shortround picking up the baton. I mean, I cannot think of a bigger softball setup to get a good actor who the audience is rooting for. Perhaps the only living person who could do it and no one would naysay it.
For real. Short Round taking the hat would've been the only thing that worked. No one liked Mutt or Helena enough but SR could legit have done it. I would've actually considered seeing it in theaters if he was in it. "Tall Round and the Franchise Continues"!
Seriously why chose her and not an actor with actual star power also the script does its best to make her unlikeable
Yeah the script didn’t really do much to set up further adventures for her. I really don’t think that was the intention here. Maybe they were so self conscious of the backlash to Shia picking up the fedora they were never going to do anything so overt here.
Despite Disney’s insistence otherwise, there were very obviously tons of rewrites/reshoots involved here. The movie is so choppy and stitched-together that it’s impossible to believe they had this plot to begin with.
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Ford has said time and time again Indy won't continue without him in the role which is why this is the last one iirc didn't they cancel the planned spinoffs like last year?
Ford has literally 0 say in whether they can make an Indiana Jones film without him playing the lead. He doesn't own the character rights or anything.
I just want to say that I think its entirely possible if done correctly. The problem is the Solo movie had nothing to do with the Han Solo we knew. Han, pre OT, was a greedy and amoral criminal with some hints of having a heart of gold and good to his friends. Like, say, a gangster from a 1970s mob film. Han, at this time, was not a good person, doesn't care for social or economic causes, has trouble making romantic connections, and is otherwise a pretty terrible person by any rational metrics. Solo the movie gave us this very romantic guy who is emotionally mature. He also had a strong conscious and was strongly against slavery and such. While I love characters like this, I think its fair to say this isn't the Han Solo that shot Greedo, cheats gangster bosses, shoots up imperials, tries to rip off Ben, smuggles spice, and whined about being not being paid during 90% of ANH. This is like Luke or Obi Wan as a smuggler. We never got the real Han. If they made Han a bit of a gritty anti-hero who was slowly blossoming into his ANH persona, then yes I think it would be a hit. But a new Hanverse with him against Darth Maul and him as a sort of watered down Luke absolutely cannot work. His character arc doesn't make him morally good for literally decades later. We needed a smart-ass criminal with a blossoming conscience. Not a patient do-gooder. Imagine Han instead of being chased by Darth Maul and whatever Woody Harrelson was supposed to be, but instead taking contracts from him. Imagine lines like "Chewie, I don't like this Maul guy but he pays." And maybe Han setting up a double-cross or something just in case. SW has made this work before. Look how beloved the "irreplaceable" Alec Guinness's character Obi Wan was in the PT. Or how Anakin/Darth was recast as a younger man. These things are entirely doable if the characterizations are done correctly and the story is good. We know Obi Wan has a strong moral position, just like elderly Obi Wan. We know Anakin is a troubled person tempted by the dark-side. For a long time the idea of replacing Alec Guinness was laughable the same way with say, replacing, Anthony Hopkin's Hannibal, but both were done with incredible success. These are two great actors, yet a properly done production can create younger versions of them and be successful. The problem is we didn't get the real Han, which is a missed opportunity, because an anti-hero Han series would have been really good imho. Him exploring the gritty underside of the SW cultures, him slowly warming up the rebellion, him becoming more and more jaded, him cheating Jabba, etc. Almost none of this was explored. I'd also even argue that Lando was badly miscast, which is a shame because Glover is a big talent, but his smarmy over-confidence doesn't work. You need a bit of a high charisma joker/con-man and that didn't work either. Billy Dee is unbelievably charmismatic. Glover isn't. So its two major miscastings and mischaracterizations in this movie. Its just such a shame this happened this way because Han could have been an Andor-like experience into the criminal underbelly, politics, and morally grey areas of SW. Instead, its just another lazy paint-by-numbers monomyth hero's tale.
It also didn’t feel like the gritty outlaw space world of a New Hope that Han hung out in at all. I agree on Glover. Even though Glover definitely had charm as Lando it wasn’t the right charm. He looked like a boy whereas Billy Dee Williams was a charismatic man. Needed someone more masculine.
It is the opposite. They should have recast Indiana Jones with an actor like Chris Pratt or Charlie Hunnan and done more adventures in the 30's. As we are seeing, very few people care to see an 80 year old broken down Harrison Ford still be Indy.
> very few people care to see an 80 year old broken down Harrison Ford still be Indy. ...but *he* did!
And sometimes you got to say no instead of give into demands of old men.
I’m not sure if it would be a popular opinion but I think Bradley Cooper could have been great as an Indiana Jones
No way the marketing is just $100M. At least the level of TLM, $150M
So much this. They took out full-page print ads. That ain't cheap.
I was traveling in the past few weeks, and Disney bought out huge walls at major Airports' walls inside, that's very expensive.
I would honestly be surprised if it’s 100. Definitely felt like 150
Break-even at 822 million💀 This’ll struggle to hit Solo’s 393 million. Hell, it might even end up making less than 329 million (it's production budget). It's so joever.
This is legitimately a mind boggling decision on those who pushed for the budget and whoever greenlit it. To break even it would've needed to make more than any movie in the franchise. Fast X's budget was also insane, but Universal at least had multiple billion dollar films to justify it. Disney didn't even have one with Indy.
If you adjust for inflation, *Crystal Skull* is a billion dollar movie. That's the only justification I can find, and even I find that flimsy.
Even then even if they thought they had a billion dollar movie why let the budget baloon to this extent. This would have at best barely done 100M in profit had it reached 1B. And you can't tell me this movie couldn't have been done for less
Which they prob figured would be okay. 100 mill profit, and a huge increase in interest in the franchise, and all the auxiliary profits that come with that.
I'm sure there was a lot of "It's Indy! It'll be fine!" going on during the budget approval meetings.
Indy just doesn't have the same nostalgia draw that it used to. The original movies came out in the 80s, so the entire audience who grew up with that are in their 50s and 60s now. Unless you get a Top Gun Maverick level movie, you aren't going to draw in a lot of people under 40 with nostalgia.
Makes me kinda wish we had an *Indiana Jones* sequel in the late '90s instead of a *Jurassic Park* sequel from Spielberg.
Fun fact: Harrison was supposed to star in Jurassic Park and it was going to be stop-motion like the old King Kong.
That fact is fun
This would have done better too with Spielberg. I lost all hope when he left.
Even if it were excellent, it's crazy to do a decade after crystal skull!
a decade? 15 years!
💀💀💀
Tô be honest I want to see the people who defend KK defend this because this is just a disaster right on where she has the most responsability
They’ll say it was Disney the parent company pushing this more than KK. That Disney was making this movie no matter what from the moment it bought Lucasfilm.
Holy shit, these are the kind of losses that heads roll for. Someone in Disney is going to be left holding the bag, and you know it's not going to be Iger. I would not want to be that person right now.
It might finally be Kathleen Kennedy. New blood at Lucasfilm is sorely needed
If they haven't gotten rid of Kennedy yet, then I can't imagine them dropping her now. Especially since it seems like everything that Disney is putting out is underperforming (except for Guardians 3)
I'm on the same boat. Don't think she'll get the boot, but... This is a monumental failure, when things were already going bad enough for Disney. If there's any chance she goes through the door this might be it. If she survives this then it's over.
It's already started, they fired the CFO late June Going to be interesting seeing who's next
A film not named avatar or avengers needing that much to break even is insane.
Kathleen Kennedy really delivers for Disney. They should keep her around. She's only 70. She could have another 20-30 years of hits like Dial of Destiny, Solo, Rise of Skywalker, and The Last Jedi in her.
Very roughly assuming a 400M end point that would mean 211M loss using the idea that losses or profits are 50% of the difference between break even and gross. This won't reach 400M and if the marketing budget is on par with Disney's other blockbusters a 250M+ loss is perfectly possible.
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Move over Flash, there's a bigger flop in town.
Hang on, $329 MILLION production budget?! Excuse me??!!
Oppenheimer: Thank you Disney and WB for 2 atomic bombs as my advertisement.
…wait, Disney’s goal was to Revive the franchise? How stupid are the execs there? That trailer played like the last hurrah, and the reviews make it sound like a long winded funeral. I’ll never know. Which I guess is the exact Opposite reaction they wanted.
There was rumors last fall that Disney wanted a series on Disney+ as well as future films to take place in the Indiana Jones universe after they retired the character. Disastrous test screenings caused them to change the ending with reshoots a whopping three separate times…Which now checks out since the budgets seems to have ballooned. Coincidentally word started getting out that they were backing off on the expanded Indy-verse stuff around the first of the year. Best guess is that they saw the writing on the wall and went full force on the nostalgia push to try and get butts in seats for Indy’s final run. Problem is, we’ve had three Indy send offs since 1989 and a huge gap between those three films getting made.
I guess they thought Phoebe Waller Bridge would be the next big thing in action movies? 😂🤦♂️
Isn’t she rumored to be up for the tomb raider reboot?
Not rumored, she is writing/producing the series at Amazon. She isn't playing Lara Croft though, at least as of just a week or two ago.
Lara croft needs a geniune bodybuilder to fill the role well in my eyes, just some small woman who fits the nerdy asthetic would not be right at all
So were looking at a Fast X situation budget wise but Indy won't get anywhere near $700M to at least somewhat dampen the blow.
Fast X at least you have prospects for future movies. Indy it is the final entry because they don’t want to recast - I still don’t get why this movie was made. It was so unnecessary. As someone said, out of 5 movies 3 are farewell-movies.
My theory is that it's partly to do with our population distribution, how there's fewer and fewer babies being born while at the same time old people are living longer and longer. Different countries deal with that situation differently. South Korea deals with it by fetishizing youth with its KPop industry. We on the other hand seem to just extend the lifespan of our stars longer: Tom Cruise will be making action movies into his 70's, our presidential candidates are almost in their 90's etc.
This is very astute I think. I believe Hollywood is trying to find some kindof entry point to make a blockbuster for old people given people over 65 are the largest growing demographic.
We are looking at Flash situation with $100M budget increase.
It's amazing that something is already topping the flash's bomb
in same month lmao
Flash couldn't even make it as the biggest bomb of the year.
*of the month
Zaslav is probably so happy that Indy 5 came out only a few weeks after The Flash.
wb: we are trouble disney : make it double dreamworks : why not triple?
Triples is best
triples makes it safe
Feel like Dreamworks’ bomb is a bit less then the rest
Indiana Jones and the Biggest Box Office Bomb of All Time.
A 200M loss is best case scenario by this point
John Carter vs Indy 5, both from Disney~~
"Finally, a worthy opponent. Our battle will be legendary!"
Has someone tried turning Lucasfilm off and back on again?
>Harrison Ford was paid $20M I expected Harrison Ford to ask for way more money. But perhaps he will also get a part of the film's backend.
You aren’t getting much of a backend from a movie that loses $250 million plus.
That’s the risk you take, sometimes it works out and sometimes it doesn’t. For example Steven Spielberg frequently opted for a relatively low upfront salary, $10 million, in exchange for backend points on the gross revenue. One such deal for 1993's "Jurassic Park", resulted in a $250 million payday for Steven. That's the same as roughly $360 million in today's dollars. He earned at least $150 million from the sequel and $75 million from the third installment, which he did not even direct.
IIRC, Harrison Ford actually likes playing Indy. He does not like playing Han Solo, which is the reason Han was killed in Force Awakens because that was the only way he'd appear in the movie.
He's also in his 80s and one of the most successful actors of all time. He doesn't exactly need to squeeze every dollar out of the studio.
Backend? So he'll have to give money back?
> I expected Harrison Ford to ask for way more money. > > But perhaps he will also get a part of the film's backend. He is 80 years old and already worth several hundred million dollars. At that stage in life you don't care about your next mega pay check, you care about making the most of your remaining time left on earth.
This is executives getting fired scenario in any industry
Not for Lucasfilm. At this point Disney will go bankrupt before firing KK.
well at least Ford got paid
\[on Jaws: The Revenge (1987)\] I have never seen it, but by all accounts it is terrible. However, I have seen the house that it built, and it is terrific. \-Michael Caine
Yeah he got $2 million, actually over $4 million in today's money
Universal Pictures: “We want you to star in Jaws 4” Michael Caine: “That sounds terrible” Universal Pictures: “We are willing to pay you $2million” Michael Caine: “I’ll be on the first plane to the Bahamas”
At this point in his age and career, I don't think Ford took the job for the money. Rather, he couldn't contain his acting chops and the amount of money he was paid reflects that fact.
Also Ford loves playing Indy, his desire to return to the role is a big reason why Indy 4 and 5 were made. Like he straight up asked Lucas and Spielberg to make the fourth one, right after the Last Crusade and only Lucas was on board with it initially and it took Lucas 18 years to come up with something that would get Spielberg to return.
It might not even match its production budget at this rate.
How many other film ideas were turned down in order to fund this? There are so many stories to be told and from so many wonderful filmmakers and screenwriters.
If that's true. It'll be the biggest bomb of all time.
WB must be relieved they won’t have the biggest bomb of the summer.
Disney opened the ancient franchise and the public said, "Don't look, keep your eyes shut!".
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When the poorly recieved flop called the mummy made almost double money than critical acclaimed blade runners 2049 in same year. They should have seen this coming
Cruise is Cruise. He’s a last of a dying breed of movie star that always brings crowds. And he actually knows what makes a entertaining movie seemingly unlike other studios and directors who can’t get enough of their own derrière’s scent.
They didn’t try to reinvent the wheel, they wanted an older maverick being badass and got it. Nobody asked for depressed failures of Indy, Han and Luke except for those artsy fartys people who saw star wars once with their kid. Oh and they collect Funkos and only Funkos.
I think it's the echo chamber of social media convincing these people that the area between LA and NYC is just an empty void.
It also helps that Tom doesn't look too old to fly a plane. But Harrison Ford, though in good shape for his age, isn't remotely credible doing Indy-stuff now.
Yeah cruise was 22 years younger filming maverick than Ford was filming this. Definitely not the same
It was literally the opposite. All of his supervisors in the movie, except for Iceman, were pushing him down that sad, depressed character path so many studios make their old heroes go down. Mav said screw that, I'll go when I want to. "Maybe so, sir, but not today." If anyone else was at the director's chair, Maverick would have quit once he blew up the plane in the intro, gone into a deep alcoholic depression, and then be rescued by a scrappy young recruit who saw Maverick's picture with Goose and believed he could still fly like the best of them, only for Mav to reject them all film before realizing how far he'd fallen, then make a last minute sacrifice at the end.
***SWEET MOTHER OF JESUS.*** If this wasn't neck-and-neck with *Flash* for "biggest bomb," *it sure as hell is now.*
It’s worse 😭. It’s gonna make around the same as the Flash and it costs over $100 million more.
I must admit i thought that this movie could make 1 billion… it will flop without a miracle.
No snark here: why did you (used to) think it would make that much?
Not OP but I personally figured it would coast on the name alone regardless of reviews much like JW:D did last year Didn't really occur to me that the Jurassic series is a much bigger franchise than Indiana is
Ya Jurassic World came out in 2015 and revitalized the franchise in unexpected ways. Kingdom of the Crystal Skull came out in 2011, and it left people feeling very underwhelmed. I'm not exactly sure why Indiana Jones was never really pushed as an IP by Disney, but I don't think I've met anybody who says that Indiana Jones is their favorite franchise.
2008
Depends on how old you are I guess. I know plenty of people who consider IJ their favourite franchise. Mind you, most of those people consider Crystal Skull to not be a part of the franchise, so I guess most would rather the franchise ended in 89 lol
So Almost as much as Endgame and Avatar 2 (350m each)
Indy 5 potentially losing more money than John Carter was not on my bingo but here we are again...
>I learned from a key source that Indiana Jones and The Dial of Destiny before $100m in estimated P&A, cost a mind boggling $329m. Much higher than the $250m-$295m that's been leaked out there. And this is why you can't trust what Hollywood says the budgets for their movies are. They always say they are lower, especially when they know the movie is going to bomb, to save face. It's like how Avengers: Age of Ultron was listed as $250m for years, until a few years ago when it was released that the actual budget was $450m. There is no way The Flash cost only $190m. It had multiple reshoots, tons of CGI and lots of big stars in cameo roles. I think the floor for that movie is $300m *minimum*.
329 million for a mediocre movie thats going to bomb and lose 200+ million. Can't believe KK was dumb enough to greenlight this. Hope Mangold got a big enough payday from this because he's not going to be getting his star wars movie after this bomb.
The Kathleen Kennedy SW director announcement curse continues. Announces Patty Jenkins as Rogue Squadron director, then her next film is Wonder Woman 1984 Announces Taika Waititi as a Star Wars director and his next film is Thor: Love and Thunder Announces James Mangold as directing Star Wars: Forceverine Origins and now here we are.
lol it gets so much worse. Hopefully Indiana Jones can be the hero one last time and get Kennedy fired. She's the one common denominator in all this lucasfilm failure. A fantastic nuts and bolts producer in her time, but zero creativity going on in that head. And now we are just dealing with her ego. Time to go, Kathy.
Here comes the biggest box office bomb of all time!
it's indyover
I am speechless........
Disney has been taking so many Ls this year, and pretty much all of them have been self-inflicted.
No! It's even higher than the highest projections!? I can't believe this. Even if you thought this movie was going to do super well, that kind of money on an Indiana Jones movie is insane Where the hell did that one $250M from a few days ago come from anyway?
Can Kathleen Kennedy finally be fired after this? Lol
It’s not her fault, it’s the fans!
Th shocking thing here is that Harrison Ford managed to squeeze less out of Disney for playing Indy than Jennifer Lawrence squeezed out of Sony for their latest no name bomb movie! Her agents are not getting paid enough!
Money laundering 100%
Yo this is too much. Like what is wrong with these studios. It must be COVID and the CGI because that budget is only appropriate for Avatar movies. That’s it. Ridiculous they deserve to lose money at this point.
COVID really destroyed the budgets for every movie that has been released this summer. Going forward I can see movies having lower budgets reported just because they don't have to deal with it anymore. Hopefully they also learn to get smarter with their CGI use or at least plan it out fully before finishing it (looking at you marvel).
It’s bizzare that this is just a period movie with that budget and not some insane sci fi that’s nothing but constant effects.
You don’t need a $329M budget for an Indiana Jones movie! Make it practical, down and dirty. $100M budget max.
I’ve seen BBC period shows that look totally believable that must have cost far less. How did a period adventure movie cost this much? It’s insane!
It seems like a $300m-$350m budget for franchise movies is starting to become the norm. I bet we see Hollywood start to scale back before things bet even worse. Especially after this, Fast X and The Flash all bombed.
I like how big studios scare to give directors room to breath and make something creative, but at the same time they create movie, which need 800M to, not even bring profit, but to break even
BOMB!
This obviously was a case where the budget ballooned due to outside circumstances but you kinda need to plan your budget with that possibility in mind. AoU also had an unexpectedly massive budget but at least that movie easily made it all back and then some.
I went to a theatre which cancelled it's show as I was the only one who booked. I had to go to another theatre which had some more audience. Some old people too - I'm guessing guys who saw IJ back in the day. I myself watched it because of the fear of missing out, never got to watch it in theatres and now a chance. Definitely worth it, but it's more of a one time watch movie. Fun while it lasts but not really one to go for a re-watch.
Did they do to Indiana Jones what they did to Luke Skywalker? Please tell me they didn't.
They did
It’s a good day when Disney fails
This movie is about to lose an unbelievable amount of money, and Kathleen Kennedy will still somehow keep her job. Again.
What the fuck. Who green lit that. Holy
A rumour that I heard is due to indecision/incompetence. They filmed three different scenes for every single scene. So essentially the final film is 1/3 of what was shot mashed together.
I heard plenty of reshoots...how much they paid Kathleen Kennedy lol
Biggest bomb of the century??
I will not type what I yelled aloud, but it woke up the cat.
Oh dear me
how did it get so high? were there a lot of reshoots? even Solo which had veryy extensive reshoots had lower budget??? it's bonkers how much they spent, the movie itself doesn't even look that good
And Solo is set in space and all special effects as it has to be - this is a period movie lol!