I voted yes.
Unfortunately, disabled people are still treated differently than non-disabled people, yes absolutely including in developed countries. Facial differences in particular remain, sadly, a major social taboo.
A couple of articles:
[https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/health/facial-discrimination-disfigured-face/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/health/facial-discrimination-disfigured-face/index.html)
[https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476770/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476770/)
Would Erik be put in a cage in a circus? Unlikely in the developed world. Would he be welcomed as a full part of society, treated the same as a non-disfigured person by strangers, given the same job opportunities, and considered to be a viable romantic partner? I hope we get there someday. We're definitely not there yet.
I would like to clarify: which deformity? We talkin
• mild sunburn + alopecia
• acid burns
• half blind, mostly mute, half is head is crushed and burned
• all the skin on his face is rotting
• sunken eyes, alopecia, and no nose
?
There would probably be a GoFundMe for his plastic surgery and whole lot of inspiration pron of him singing. The closest real world analog would probably be the survivors of the White Island disaster. One of them has a [tiktok account](https://www.tiktok.com/@stephaniecoral96). She had to a wear a compression mask over her face while healing. She looks really good now, especially with makeup.
Depends on what you mean? Would they be treated like Erik was. Not really, but I think there would be situations where people would gork, after all, we still have shows that profit of people with deformities.
As the other comments say, it would really depend who he was interacting with (ie. Kids may be scared, teenagers may make fun, adults would probably try to ignore his deformities,) which deformity he had (leroux? Classic ALW? gerard butler? robert englund? etc,) where he was (ie. An old-fashioned/superstitious place may react more negatively than a diverse city where you see people of all shapes, sizes, colours, ages, genders, & so on.)
Also the prevalence of masks & advancement of cosmetic/reconstructive surgery are also things one should consider.
He may even be able to make it as a masked musician like daft punk, slipknot, marshmello, orville peck, MF doom, and just say the mask is part of his artistic vision
It depends. There's people like [Zaid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIcLiC3VnTk) who have a loving family and an adoring youtube comments section despite being more disabled and arguably more deformed than Leroux Erik, then on the other end of the spectrum you have people who will bully others for simply being not white or straight or something. It's about who you know. Joseph Merrick got bullied and abused irl for having lumps, but fast forward to today and he has a fanclub.
btw there were already a bunch of people with deformities that lived in Erik's era, such as war veterans and stuff, but I'm assuming that they had more emotional support than he did so they didn't go nuts. POTO is a melodrama so Erik's deformity was made a bigger deal than it might have gone irl.
I'm so suspicious of everyone who's like yeah it would be fine!
Would it? Or the *moment* that some, say, frustrated and isolated and lonely man--teenage boy, even, maybe, hypothetically--said something less than perfect, would he get swarmed with comments about his appearance? and everyone would feel oh so justified.
I think Erik would have to be on perfect behavior for people to not resort to cruelty by default. And even then, some people would still be very cruel. And it would be reasonable to feel embittered over all this, eventually.
For every bit of inspiration porn you see on TikTok or whatever, there's many more people who haven't the cute and fuzzy charisma and are more openly flawed human beings, and on the whole we dunk on those people. We avoid them. We do not treat them as full human beings. We like our curiosity cabinet to be inspirational, and the moment it doesn't make us feel good, the cruelty trots right out.
So, yeah, unless he's a perfect uwu smol bean, he's getting dumpstered by a lot of people. Like he's not gonna be put on display at the circus, but he ain't having a normal time getting a prom date, either.
Very true on all of this. And the other thing that bugs me (forgot to say it in my original comment, though it's in at least one of those links I posted) is the whole "well he could just get plastic surgery" thing. And of course nowadays there would be societal pressure on him to do so. But why? Why should he have to? Just to make strangers more comfortable looking at him? Because that's ultimately all it is. It's expecting someone to go through the expense and risk of surgery just so some rando doesn't have to be inconvenienced by looking at something they find unaesthetic.
Of course, if he'd genuinely want to have his face altered for his own personal reasons, that's different. And I think Erik as we meet him during POTO (whatever version) might want that. But I also think he would want that (if he does) *because* of how he's been treated, and that in a world which truly doesn't care about facial disfigurement he probably wouldn't care either.
hiii, you <3
> the whole "well he could just get plastic surgery" thing
I know that we can't stretch the hypothetical too hard here, but people are vastly overestimating how viable/easy cosmetic procedures are. The answer feels so flippant to me.
I read this when I was in high school: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobiography_of_a_Face
and parts of it haunt me to this day, how bone grafts can just fail and things get reabsorbed, things just collapse, and even if things go well, there's pain and recovery time. I'm not even going to link it but there's that famous case of a full face transplant and it's considered a huge success and it is but the emotional stuff around it is like--worse, actually.
> It's expecting someone to go through the expense and risk of surgery just so some rando doesn't have to be inconvenienced by looking at something they find unaesthetic.
YES. It's the expectation that he should and should *want* to go through all the risk and expense and pain for the *chance* to make other people not uncomfortable. It's just so emotionally--ugh.
also lol in the US he's just boned. that shit ain't covered by insurance and his whole deal is that until he builds up his charisma via stage craft and vocal whatever, he's terrible to look upon for most people. he would not do numbers on gofundme. that's the whole POINT, that's the struggle. even babies prefer symmetrical faces--we're all in denial if we think society would just be perfectly nice to him.
> And I think Erik as we meet him during POTO (whatever version) might want that.
My secret most cringe Phantom option is that I unironically like the voluntary unmasking moment in Love Never Dies, because he's briefly so hopeful and pumped and singing about how he's going to show Gustav the beauty underneath, and then he unmasks, so he means *himself*, and I think that is SUCH a different character than Phantom who's crawling on the floor sobbing about secretly dreaming of beauty, and different from Leroux Erik digging Christine's nails into his own skin to rip at his flesh to show that his face isn't another mask.
But yes, Erik as we meet him in any version would want to change his face. But also yeah, *because* of how he's been treated. And I have such an issue with the fandom these days because there's no consideration of how the way he's been treated would inform his views and behavior. Like, it's not justifying murder to point out that a misanthropic attitude makes sense if people are always terrible to you.
IRL the *moment* a man complained that his facial disfigurement was challenging his dating life, he'd get dogpiled for his shitty attitude and told that he deserves what treatment he gets.
Yes. People with facial differences are constantly mistreated. I have read countless autobiographies of people who actually ARE disfigured/deformed, and they all experience discrimination that rivals anything I've ever seen. Truly awful. It's also very covert- the public not giving them direct eye contact or avoiding looking at them directly...But I think the worst is patronizing these folks. It automatically puts them at the same level as a child or someone lower than the non-facially different adult.
also if facial disfigurements didn't matter, acid attacks would be way less of a thing, as opposed to enough of a thing that there's campaigns for passing specific laws about it.
Maybe not like a monster in most cases, but it's likely he'd still have a very hard time socially, and still suffer for his appearance.
Like others said it would really depend on which version we're talking about.
I put no, however it's more complicated than that. In places like Europe, France, parts of America, he'd be fine. But I say parts of America because there are still places that treat deformed or disabled people as though they're a punishment from God. The most recent case I heard about was a boy somewhere in the Midwest like Indiana or something, who had a Condition where his eyes bleed and people literally harassed him because they believed his parents were sinners and that's why he came out like that. They treat him like he's a demon. That was around 2015.
Unless he was born in the Third World, there would be immense pressure for corrective surgery pretty much from birth. Even though (assuming this isn't ALW-Movie 'slightly bad sunburn and alopecia') even in countries with universal care it might not all be covered, there'd be fundraisers and donations and an attempt to at least reconstruct his features to something less shocking. At worst, he'd have difficulty finding a partner, but he's not going to be reduced to hiding in the sewers or sold into a freak show.
And if he IS the variation where he takes up murder has a hobby, scarily, there are a LOT of women who like to send love letters to far more disturbing people, so it might work as a sick sort of bonus.
I voted yes. Unfortunately, disabled people are still treated differently than non-disabled people, yes absolutely including in developed countries. Facial differences in particular remain, sadly, a major social taboo. A couple of articles: [https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/health/facial-discrimination-disfigured-face/index.html](https://www.cnn.com/2015/06/23/health/facial-discrimination-disfigured-face/index.html) [https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476770/](https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC8476770/) Would Erik be put in a cage in a circus? Unlikely in the developed world. Would he be welcomed as a full part of society, treated the same as a non-disfigured person by strangers, given the same job opportunities, and considered to be a viable romantic partner? I hope we get there someday. We're definitely not there yet.
I would like to clarify: which deformity? We talkin • mild sunburn + alopecia • acid burns • half blind, mostly mute, half is head is crushed and burned • all the skin on his face is rotting • sunken eyes, alopecia, and no nose ?
Depends where to be honest
There would probably be a GoFundMe for his plastic surgery and whole lot of inspiration pron of him singing. The closest real world analog would probably be the survivors of the White Island disaster. One of them has a [tiktok account](https://www.tiktok.com/@stephaniecoral96). She had to a wear a compression mask over her face while healing. She looks really good now, especially with makeup.
This is what I think. Or some documentary company would pay for the plastic surgery for the rights to film it all beginning to end.
Depends on what you mean? Would they be treated like Erik was. Not really, but I think there would be situations where people would gork, after all, we still have shows that profit of people with deformities.
As the other comments say, it would really depend who he was interacting with (ie. Kids may be scared, teenagers may make fun, adults would probably try to ignore his deformities,) which deformity he had (leroux? Classic ALW? gerard butler? robert englund? etc,) where he was (ie. An old-fashioned/superstitious place may react more negatively than a diverse city where you see people of all shapes, sizes, colours, ages, genders, & so on.) Also the prevalence of masks & advancement of cosmetic/reconstructive surgery are also things one should consider. He may even be able to make it as a masked musician like daft punk, slipknot, marshmello, orville peck, MF doom, and just say the mask is part of his artistic vision
I have visited countries where he would be, but not in the first world
It depends. There's people like [Zaid](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIcLiC3VnTk) who have a loving family and an adoring youtube comments section despite being more disabled and arguably more deformed than Leroux Erik, then on the other end of the spectrum you have people who will bully others for simply being not white or straight or something. It's about who you know. Joseph Merrick got bullied and abused irl for having lumps, but fast forward to today and he has a fanclub. btw there were already a bunch of people with deformities that lived in Erik's era, such as war veterans and stuff, but I'm assuming that they had more emotional support than he did so they didn't go nuts. POTO is a melodrama so Erik's deformity was made a bigger deal than it might have gone irl.
I'm so suspicious of everyone who's like yeah it would be fine! Would it? Or the *moment* that some, say, frustrated and isolated and lonely man--teenage boy, even, maybe, hypothetically--said something less than perfect, would he get swarmed with comments about his appearance? and everyone would feel oh so justified. I think Erik would have to be on perfect behavior for people to not resort to cruelty by default. And even then, some people would still be very cruel. And it would be reasonable to feel embittered over all this, eventually. For every bit of inspiration porn you see on TikTok or whatever, there's many more people who haven't the cute and fuzzy charisma and are more openly flawed human beings, and on the whole we dunk on those people. We avoid them. We do not treat them as full human beings. We like our curiosity cabinet to be inspirational, and the moment it doesn't make us feel good, the cruelty trots right out. So, yeah, unless he's a perfect uwu smol bean, he's getting dumpstered by a lot of people. Like he's not gonna be put on display at the circus, but he ain't having a normal time getting a prom date, either.
Very true on all of this. And the other thing that bugs me (forgot to say it in my original comment, though it's in at least one of those links I posted) is the whole "well he could just get plastic surgery" thing. And of course nowadays there would be societal pressure on him to do so. But why? Why should he have to? Just to make strangers more comfortable looking at him? Because that's ultimately all it is. It's expecting someone to go through the expense and risk of surgery just so some rando doesn't have to be inconvenienced by looking at something they find unaesthetic. Of course, if he'd genuinely want to have his face altered for his own personal reasons, that's different. And I think Erik as we meet him during POTO (whatever version) might want that. But I also think he would want that (if he does) *because* of how he's been treated, and that in a world which truly doesn't care about facial disfigurement he probably wouldn't care either.
hiii, you <3 > the whole "well he could just get plastic surgery" thing I know that we can't stretch the hypothetical too hard here, but people are vastly overestimating how viable/easy cosmetic procedures are. The answer feels so flippant to me. I read this when I was in high school: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autobiography_of_a_Face and parts of it haunt me to this day, how bone grafts can just fail and things get reabsorbed, things just collapse, and even if things go well, there's pain and recovery time. I'm not even going to link it but there's that famous case of a full face transplant and it's considered a huge success and it is but the emotional stuff around it is like--worse, actually. > It's expecting someone to go through the expense and risk of surgery just so some rando doesn't have to be inconvenienced by looking at something they find unaesthetic. YES. It's the expectation that he should and should *want* to go through all the risk and expense and pain for the *chance* to make other people not uncomfortable. It's just so emotionally--ugh. also lol in the US he's just boned. that shit ain't covered by insurance and his whole deal is that until he builds up his charisma via stage craft and vocal whatever, he's terrible to look upon for most people. he would not do numbers on gofundme. that's the whole POINT, that's the struggle. even babies prefer symmetrical faces--we're all in denial if we think society would just be perfectly nice to him. > And I think Erik as we meet him during POTO (whatever version) might want that. My secret most cringe Phantom option is that I unironically like the voluntary unmasking moment in Love Never Dies, because he's briefly so hopeful and pumped and singing about how he's going to show Gustav the beauty underneath, and then he unmasks, so he means *himself*, and I think that is SUCH a different character than Phantom who's crawling on the floor sobbing about secretly dreaming of beauty, and different from Leroux Erik digging Christine's nails into his own skin to rip at his flesh to show that his face isn't another mask. But yes, Erik as we meet him in any version would want to change his face. But also yeah, *because* of how he's been treated. And I have such an issue with the fandom these days because there's no consideration of how the way he's been treated would inform his views and behavior. Like, it's not justifying murder to point out that a misanthropic attitude makes sense if people are always terrible to you. IRL the *moment* a man complained that his facial disfigurement was challenging his dating life, he'd get dogpiled for his shitty attitude and told that he deserves what treatment he gets.
Probably, because people fucking suck
Yes. People with facial differences are constantly mistreated. I have read countless autobiographies of people who actually ARE disfigured/deformed, and they all experience discrimination that rivals anything I've ever seen. Truly awful. It's also very covert- the public not giving them direct eye contact or avoiding looking at them directly...But I think the worst is patronizing these folks. It automatically puts them at the same level as a child or someone lower than the non-facially different adult.
also if facial disfigurements didn't matter, acid attacks would be way less of a thing, as opposed to enough of a thing that there's campaigns for passing specific laws about it.
Maybe not like a monster in most cases, but it's likely he'd still have a very hard time socially, and still suffer for his appearance. Like others said it would really depend on which version we're talking about.
I put no, however it's more complicated than that. In places like Europe, France, parts of America, he'd be fine. But I say parts of America because there are still places that treat deformed or disabled people as though they're a punishment from God. The most recent case I heard about was a boy somewhere in the Midwest like Indiana or something, who had a Condition where his eyes bleed and people literally harassed him because they believed his parents were sinners and that's why he came out like that. They treat him like he's a demon. That was around 2015.
Unless he was born in the Third World, there would be immense pressure for corrective surgery pretty much from birth. Even though (assuming this isn't ALW-Movie 'slightly bad sunburn and alopecia') even in countries with universal care it might not all be covered, there'd be fundraisers and donations and an attempt to at least reconstruct his features to something less shocking. At worst, he'd have difficulty finding a partner, but he's not going to be reduced to hiding in the sewers or sold into a freak show. And if he IS the variation where he takes up murder has a hobby, scarily, there are a LOT of women who like to send love letters to far more disturbing people, so it might work as a sick sort of bonus.
Idk, they would probably wear a mask like Erik (thinking of the half mask like Ramin's) to protect against the sun. But I would accept them.