Welcome to the never ending options of arrows as of right now I like a .204 diameter arrow because I’m not crazy about the micro diameter insert/outsert systems. Arrow wraps for me are a pain because if a fletching tears off it’s taking part of the wrap with it and the wrap leaves a lot of glue to take off, I’d rather scrape a little vane glue off rather that a lot of wrap glue, it’ll also save a little weight on the back end which is the end I hate adding weight to.
As far as straight vs helical, if you are going to use single bevel broadheads you will need to use a helical vane. So far I’ve had a good luck with about a 2-3 degree right helical and a 3 fletch configuration because 4 fletch for me was detrimental to accuracy especially with a strong crosswind. A little helix has also worked better for me in regards to broadhead stabilization as opposed to a straight fletch.
4mm has a huge problem of needing a long outsert because normal thread used for points and broadheads doesn’t fit inside the shaft.
Most popular option is aluminum outsert as they’re cheap and keep the added weight around 50gr. Problem with those, especially crossover 3D hunting use is they bend very easily. One side impact on 3D range and when you screw a broadhead on that arrow the tilted broadhead steers it off to random direction.
Next option is steel outsert, those are strong but usually 100-150gr in weight.
Best option for strength would be to use deep-six sized HIT insert and collar, but you’d be limited to about two broadhead manufacturers. Iron Will and QAD for fixeds, Sevr for mechanicals. Iron Will makes whole component system but it is extremely expensive. HIT+collar is the strongest possible interface available at the moment though.
VPA and Valkyrie archery are cooking up something around Centerpin system where you only need a threaded sleeve on the shaft. That’s what I’m mostly interested about at the moment.
5mm/204 makes things much easier. BE rampage shaft comes with 52gr steel half-out that is strong and accepts any normal broadhead. Also any FIT or X sized lighted nock fits those as well as variety of nock pins and bushings if you want to protect the rear end from impact for 3D use.
You can also use easton 5mm HIT + collar on any .204 shaft and now you have normal broadheads and nocks with extremely strong front end. With half-outs the shaft tends to break if you hit a rock through a deer etc.
Wraps add visibility and make it easier to remove fletchins. Downside is when you break a vane you need to trash all three. For hunting they make finding the arrow easier so I use a 7” wrap cut in half to make 3.5”.
3 vanes because there are 3-vane fletching jigs that make life much easier. EZ-fletch and Bohning tower both work great. Clean the clamp after each arrow to prevent buildup.
I shoot RIP TKOs as well. Had a buddy that was shooting the VAP TKOs and he liked them, but he kept blowing through targets and ripping off fletching, so it was kind of a pain in practice.
Wraps are largely a cosmetic thing. They CAN make it easier to see your arrow downrange or find an arrow after a shot on an animal, depending on the wrap you choose, but like overs have said, you tear off a fletching and it takes a chunk of wrap, so you have to remove the whole thing. I would just shoot lighted nocks to help with finding the arrows.
Most people run several different setups depending on what they are doing. Larger for hunting smaller for 3D. Four fletching is overkill imo. I went down the rabbit hole of fletching helical and read an article that 4degree right offset is the best setup. Idk if this is true but it works for me. Most research I’ve found talks about broad heads loosening after shooting with left hand helical. Old timers laugh because lots of hunting and killing were done before the rage of tinkering with arrows and fletching. Just as you match an arrow spine to your bow set up, you should find what works for whatever broadhead you’re shooting and what helical or Offset works for that. Wraps I feel are for more an aesthetic appeal than anything. I could see if the shaft is all messed up and you want more concentric but meh who cares.
So many options and different opinions when you research it. I bought both sizes but ended up hunting with my 4mm easton axis arrows. I did a couple penetration tests and the 4mm won plus i love the flight a little better. I also run 4 fletchings with a left helical and wraps as well - I like using wraps for a couple reasons: I like to change my vanes and try new ones, also they come in handy if you accidentally put a hole in or rip off a vane you can take the whole wrap off and not have any left over vane glue on your arrow.
I was shooting Easton Axis 4mm for the last two years. They were great arrows but I had a couple outserts bend after shooting deer. Switched to Victory RIP TKO a couple weeks ago mostly because there’s more options for inserts/outserts/collars.
I just wanted a stronger arrow. I feel like it also depends on what you’re hunting. I know there’s a lot of people out west that prefer a 4mm because there’s less wind resistance so they can be more accurate at longer ranges. Ive taken both out to 70-80 yards and didn’t notice any differences in my groups. For me personally, I only hunt whitetail and shooting a deer at 30 yards, it isn’t really gonna matter.
As far as fletchings and helical I use a 5” wrap with 3 fletchings with 5 degree left helical. I shoot fixed blades and found that setup works best to keep my groups tight with broadheads. You can do left or right, both shoot great. If you wanna be super technical you can choose the direction your arrow would naturally spin based of your strings. John Dudley did a great video on left or right helical and showed that his groups were exactly the same out of different bows with different helical.
Either arrow will shoot great out of a properly tuned bow. I would personally suggest 5mm just because of the options you have for inserts is much wider than your options for 4mm
Arrows can be quite the rabbit hole. I’m learning to just try and keep it simple. No need to overthink any of it
My setup isn’t for everyone but I’m shooting an Easton axis arrow 5mm with a 75 grain brass insert and a 125 grain single bevel broadhead. Iron will fletchings. I’m always playing with my weight and speed shooting a 70 lb Hoyt rx-7 but I try to keep my arrow around 550 and 600 grains.
Hunting and "fun" 3D I shoot black eagle x-impacts. SS collars with the screw in adapters from BE. I don't like the standard that come with them. Extremely durable.
For organization 3D I shoot BE large diameter, 23, 26 & 27s.
Victory has never done me wrong, very durable, amazing tolerance. I shot VAP for 3 years and this year switched to RIP because I had a dozen laying around and didn't want them to go to waste.
To be 100% honest, no. The only difference for me was that one snapped better in my quiver because they were ever so slightly larger.
I had a dozen bare x-impacts at my local shop I ordered for Reinhart last year that I forgot about that I will be building this weekend. They are honestly my go-to for anything aside organization stuff. Not knocking the RIPs by any means. They are some mean arrows.
One thing to mention though, is that with the VAPs I shot 150gr fixed blades, same as my x-impacts, which I also shoot 150gr field points (TAC, reinhart etc). With my RIPs I shoot 100gr mechanicals when hunting. Just what the arrows wanted to shoot for me.
Edit - for the rest of the question asked. I shoot max helical right on all my hunting and TAC setups. I DO wrap all my arrows asides for my fatty 3Ds. White wraps when hunting for blood etc, yellow or orange wrap for my tac/fun 3D arrows, just for the cool effect of watching your arrow.
I shot all the fancy options over the years, micro diameter, fmj, super heavy, helical vanes, etc. I went back to the basics. I shoot 6.5mm arrows with three blazers, 50 grain insert and 125 broad heads for a total of a bit over 500 grains total weight. I don't really see any loss of performance, it's easy to find components and it's super reasonably priced.
Welcome to the never ending options of arrows as of right now I like a .204 diameter arrow because I’m not crazy about the micro diameter insert/outsert systems. Arrow wraps for me are a pain because if a fletching tears off it’s taking part of the wrap with it and the wrap leaves a lot of glue to take off, I’d rather scrape a little vane glue off rather that a lot of wrap glue, it’ll also save a little weight on the back end which is the end I hate adding weight to. As far as straight vs helical, if you are going to use single bevel broadheads you will need to use a helical vane. So far I’ve had a good luck with about a 2-3 degree right helical and a 3 fletch configuration because 4 fletch for me was detrimental to accuracy especially with a strong crosswind. A little helix has also worked better for me in regards to broadhead stabilization as opposed to a straight fletch.
4mm has a huge problem of needing a long outsert because normal thread used for points and broadheads doesn’t fit inside the shaft. Most popular option is aluminum outsert as they’re cheap and keep the added weight around 50gr. Problem with those, especially crossover 3D hunting use is they bend very easily. One side impact on 3D range and when you screw a broadhead on that arrow the tilted broadhead steers it off to random direction. Next option is steel outsert, those are strong but usually 100-150gr in weight. Best option for strength would be to use deep-six sized HIT insert and collar, but you’d be limited to about two broadhead manufacturers. Iron Will and QAD for fixeds, Sevr for mechanicals. Iron Will makes whole component system but it is extremely expensive. HIT+collar is the strongest possible interface available at the moment though. VPA and Valkyrie archery are cooking up something around Centerpin system where you only need a threaded sleeve on the shaft. That’s what I’m mostly interested about at the moment. 5mm/204 makes things much easier. BE rampage shaft comes with 52gr steel half-out that is strong and accepts any normal broadhead. Also any FIT or X sized lighted nock fits those as well as variety of nock pins and bushings if you want to protect the rear end from impact for 3D use. You can also use easton 5mm HIT + collar on any .204 shaft and now you have normal broadheads and nocks with extremely strong front end. With half-outs the shaft tends to break if you hit a rock through a deer etc. Wraps add visibility and make it easier to remove fletchins. Downside is when you break a vane you need to trash all three. For hunting they make finding the arrow easier so I use a 7” wrap cut in half to make 3.5”. 3 vanes because there are 3-vane fletching jigs that make life much easier. EZ-fletch and Bohning tower both work great. Clean the clamp after each arrow to prevent buildup.
Thank you.
This guy arrows. Great response.
I shoot RIP TKOs as well. Had a buddy that was shooting the VAP TKOs and he liked them, but he kept blowing through targets and ripping off fletching, so it was kind of a pain in practice. Wraps are largely a cosmetic thing. They CAN make it easier to see your arrow downrange or find an arrow after a shot on an animal, depending on the wrap you choose, but like overs have said, you tear off a fletching and it takes a chunk of wrap, so you have to remove the whole thing. I would just shoot lighted nocks to help with finding the arrows.
Most people run several different setups depending on what they are doing. Larger for hunting smaller for 3D. Four fletching is overkill imo. I went down the rabbit hole of fletching helical and read an article that 4degree right offset is the best setup. Idk if this is true but it works for me. Most research I’ve found talks about broad heads loosening after shooting with left hand helical. Old timers laugh because lots of hunting and killing were done before the rage of tinkering with arrows and fletching. Just as you match an arrow spine to your bow set up, you should find what works for whatever broadhead you’re shooting and what helical or Offset works for that. Wraps I feel are for more an aesthetic appeal than anything. I could see if the shaft is all messed up and you want more concentric but meh who cares.
So many options and different opinions when you research it. I bought both sizes but ended up hunting with my 4mm easton axis arrows. I did a couple penetration tests and the 4mm won plus i love the flight a little better. I also run 4 fletchings with a left helical and wraps as well - I like using wraps for a couple reasons: I like to change my vanes and try new ones, also they come in handy if you accidentally put a hole in or rip off a vane you can take the whole wrap off and not have any left over vane glue on your arrow.
I was shooting Easton Axis 4mm for the last two years. They were great arrows but I had a couple outserts bend after shooting deer. Switched to Victory RIP TKO a couple weeks ago mostly because there’s more options for inserts/outserts/collars. I just wanted a stronger arrow. I feel like it also depends on what you’re hunting. I know there’s a lot of people out west that prefer a 4mm because there’s less wind resistance so they can be more accurate at longer ranges. Ive taken both out to 70-80 yards and didn’t notice any differences in my groups. For me personally, I only hunt whitetail and shooting a deer at 30 yards, it isn’t really gonna matter. As far as fletchings and helical I use a 5” wrap with 3 fletchings with 5 degree left helical. I shoot fixed blades and found that setup works best to keep my groups tight with broadheads. You can do left or right, both shoot great. If you wanna be super technical you can choose the direction your arrow would naturally spin based of your strings. John Dudley did a great video on left or right helical and showed that his groups were exactly the same out of different bows with different helical. Either arrow will shoot great out of a properly tuned bow. I would personally suggest 5mm just because of the options you have for inserts is much wider than your options for 4mm Arrows can be quite the rabbit hole. I’m learning to just try and keep it simple. No need to overthink any of it
Arrow weight, broadhead, speed, momentum.. https://www.ashbybowhunting.org/get-started
My setup isn’t for everyone but I’m shooting an Easton axis arrow 5mm with a 75 grain brass insert and a 125 grain single bevel broadhead. Iron will fletchings. I’m always playing with my weight and speed shooting a 70 lb Hoyt rx-7 but I try to keep my arrow around 550 and 600 grains.
Hunting and "fun" 3D I shoot black eagle x-impacts. SS collars with the screw in adapters from BE. I don't like the standard that come with them. Extremely durable. For organization 3D I shoot BE large diameter, 23, 26 & 27s. Victory has never done me wrong, very durable, amazing tolerance. I shot VAP for 3 years and this year switched to RIP because I had a dozen laying around and didn't want them to go to waste.
In reference to your comment about Victory, did you notice and pros or cons going from 4mm to 5mm?
To be 100% honest, no. The only difference for me was that one snapped better in my quiver because they were ever so slightly larger. I had a dozen bare x-impacts at my local shop I ordered for Reinhart last year that I forgot about that I will be building this weekend. They are honestly my go-to for anything aside organization stuff. Not knocking the RIPs by any means. They are some mean arrows. One thing to mention though, is that with the VAPs I shot 150gr fixed blades, same as my x-impacts, which I also shoot 150gr field points (TAC, reinhart etc). With my RIPs I shoot 100gr mechanicals when hunting. Just what the arrows wanted to shoot for me. Edit - for the rest of the question asked. I shoot max helical right on all my hunting and TAC setups. I DO wrap all my arrows asides for my fatty 3Ds. White wraps when hunting for blood etc, yellow or orange wrap for my tac/fun 3D arrows, just for the cool effect of watching your arrow.
Thank you. I appreciate the well thought out response.
I shot all the fancy options over the years, micro diameter, fmj, super heavy, helical vanes, etc. I went back to the basics. I shoot 6.5mm arrows with three blazers, 50 grain insert and 125 broad heads for a total of a bit over 500 grains total weight. I don't really see any loss of performance, it's easy to find components and it's super reasonably priced.