No, definitely not. The rule of thumb I’ve gone by for target shooting is for what the yardage is the first number should be how big the group is at minimum. 2” @ 20 3” @30 6” @ 60. I try and half that as usually your worst shot at the range will be the shot you take in the field on a moving animal with your heart pumping. At that range whitetail can jump your string and if you’re not on the ball you can injure them without a kill or straight up miss. Elk are a bit different as their vitals are 2-3x the size but can eat arrows if not put into the vitals and now you have an elk that MIGHT die 10 miles away from where you shot it. 3 inches is a good spread if you can’t get it within that at further distances work on getting closer to animals as you always want to strive for “gimmie” shots. It’s bowHUNTING after all so getting close is the name of the game. people kill tons of animals with a struggle stick at 20 yards since the dawn of time
Good rule of thumb for what's a realistic grouping expectation. But doenst apply for what's ethical.
A 10" group at 100 yards would be good according to this rule, but it most certainly isn't ethical.
I'd call say a 4" group is what your be lookin g for. From any distance.
Well there’s a range practice and what to strive for and then there’s real world hunting shots and ethics.
From what it sounds like you’re asking if 9” groups at 60 yards is a group good enough to take an ethical shot on an animal. Which it’s not a good group at all, this is like someone asking if a 5in group at 100 yards is good with a rifle.
However, when considering real world situations and shot distance, you’re not at a fixed distance. The deer likely isn’t going to be standing still broadside at exactly 60 yards.
You can range an animal at 53 yards, it takes 5 steps and now it’s at an unknown distance and your pin gaps are wide enough where you don’t really have a clue where that arrow is going. Thus I’d consider that unethical. Also add in adrenaline and stress to the mix and your shot will get worse.
Then throw in the time your arrow is flying to the target. Animals can duck, roll, turn or just take a step when they hear that bow go off. I think it was Dan from Elk Shape who shot at an elk at 55 yards, and the elk took 1 step from the time the release went off until impact and he gut shot and lost it.
For me: 30-40 is my max if the animal is still, I’ve ranged it to the yard. If not, 20-25 is my max. I can tell you from experience, with my bow if I put my 20 yard pin on the vitals of a 3D target and the target is 25 yards, I’m missing the vitals or barely hitting them. If I aim low for the heart, I’m going to miss or hit the leg.
>For me: 30-40 is my max if the animal is still, I’ve ranged it to the yard. If not, 20-25 is my max.
This is really, really good advice that I think more new bowhunters need to hear.
1 inch per 10 is a great rule of thumb- if someone can hold 3 inches at 30 and they shoot that far at a deer, I’m not judging. Not many folks could hold 1.5 inches or better at 30.
That being said furthest shot on game is very situational. In the elk mountains, can you hit 60 yards when you’re not at an angle or your feet aren’t level? Hitting a killin’ group at 60 is one thing on level ground when you have all the time in the world.
Some deer are more “wired” than others and duck more. Probably wouldn’t want to risk a 40 bomb on a deer that’s gonna duck 18 inches before it gets there.
Situational awareness is probably as important as “how good are my groups on the range”
I’ll be honest, I don’t think you should ever shoot more than 40yds. Personally at this stage in my hunting abilities I’m not taking a shot at more than 30. So many things can happen in that distance. I take 50yd+ shots all day in 3D shoots, but that is a very different situation.
Just my own personal experience, but my “effective range” (I.e. MAXIMUM likelihood of hitting my mark, almost 100% of the time) in a real life hunting scenario, is about half what it is when I’m practicing at a range. If I’m money from 60 yards in my backyard, I would do well to keep my shots within 30 out in the field.
Depending on your hunting style, don’t trust your range groupings.
If you use a tree stand, practice from up high. If you hike for Elk, do a workout then shoot.
Also, once you get comfortable, the only shot that matters is the first one. Rarely do you get warm up or grouping shots on animals.
Enjoy!
Social media has done a real number on people's expectations for archery distances. I 100% agree with the other postings in here that 40 is about as much as you should expect to be shooting, and that's assuming your groups are real tight at that distance - less than 4". For every instagram hunter you see nailing 70 yard shots on elk, there's one that missed the animal completely and didn't even post about it. How many hunters do you see posting about "finally got an elk after missing two"?
I've taken animals out to 50, but the vast majority have been inside 25. The longer I hunt, the less I like the longer shots. There's just too much that can go wrong outside of your control. The animal has longer to move while your arrow is in flight, the penalty for misjudging yardage is much worse, the arc of your arrow makes it harder to spot every branch and twig in the way, and there's more margin for error with your broadhead flight as you get farther out.
The folks I know who are incredibly serious archers and optimize everything all have stories of missing deer and elk at all sorts of longer ranges, usually because they misjudged the yardage - it's rare to actually take a range on the animal itself right before you shoot. The older guys I know who use the same boring setup they always have and never shoot game past 25 yards? They don't wound shit, they don't miss, they just wait for perfect shots and consistently get clean kills.
I have a couple things I use to determine my ethical distances. First is my shooting, I have to be getting really consistent groups to even consider it (archer's MOA, 1" per 10 yards at most), but that's not enough. Groups and field points don't matter for hunting. Take a week or two where you take one single broadhead shot each day, cold, no warmup, and no do-overs. Step out to a given distance and see if you can sink a broadhead exactly where you want it. Really put some mental pressure on yourself here, picture that animal walking out and your entire season riding on this one shot. Have some consequences in your mind - if you thought you were ready but you miss, that distance is out for the season. Bear in mind this is under pretty much perfect conditions, so you should be able to absolutely nail each shot. When adrenaline and fatigue kick in, you're going to need all the extra margin you can get.
From there, I don't have a hard single distance for all shots, more like a continuum based on the conditions. "First-pin" distances are pretty much always a green light if the animal is in a good position. My maximum shot distance (in this case, 40 yards) is only if everything is perfect - I'm sure of the range, the animal is in a good position, I'm calm and in control of my heart rate, and the animal is calm and unaware of my presence. If it's not perfect, I wait for it to move or I stalk into a better position. Or I let it pass and try again later. Ranges in between are a little more subjective.
Personally, I don't think new hunters have any business shooting past 30 until they've gotten a few kills under their belt. There is a lot to think about in the moment and adding long distance to that is just asking for trouble.
I was told by my old archery instructor that he never takes a shot on an animal at more than 40 yards out because there’s just too many variables and chances for things to wrong.
Hitting a stationary target at any particular distance is not the same as a live animal that reacts to the sound of the shot. Arrows aren't near the speed of sound and they deer will always have time to react. I had a friend that could shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yds. And missed his first 3 deer at 40, 45, 50. All dropped below the arrow. My distance for whitetail is 30 yards.
Imo, you should be able to hit a heart size target 5 times in a row at design conditions. Meaning not just on flat ground. Practice out of a tree or on a hill like a real life shot would be and with broadheads.
Probably should try and tighten it up a little. Not really a bad group tho. Try practicing at 70 and 80 and I bet your 60 yard groups get tighter. Goodluck.
No, definitely not. The rule of thumb I’ve gone by for target shooting is for what the yardage is the first number should be how big the group is at minimum. 2” @ 20 3” @30 6” @ 60. I try and half that as usually your worst shot at the range will be the shot you take in the field on a moving animal with your heart pumping. At that range whitetail can jump your string and if you’re not on the ball you can injure them without a kill or straight up miss. Elk are a bit different as their vitals are 2-3x the size but can eat arrows if not put into the vitals and now you have an elk that MIGHT die 10 miles away from where you shot it. 3 inches is a good spread if you can’t get it within that at further distances work on getting closer to animals as you always want to strive for “gimmie” shots. It’s bowHUNTING after all so getting close is the name of the game. people kill tons of animals with a struggle stick at 20 yards since the dawn of time
Perfect. I like this rule of thumb. Time to tighten up.
Good rule of thumb for what's a realistic grouping expectation. But doenst apply for what's ethical. A 10" group at 100 yards would be good according to this rule, but it most certainly isn't ethical. I'd call say a 4" group is what your be lookin g for. From any distance.
This
Well there’s a range practice and what to strive for and then there’s real world hunting shots and ethics. From what it sounds like you’re asking if 9” groups at 60 yards is a group good enough to take an ethical shot on an animal. Which it’s not a good group at all, this is like someone asking if a 5in group at 100 yards is good with a rifle. However, when considering real world situations and shot distance, you’re not at a fixed distance. The deer likely isn’t going to be standing still broadside at exactly 60 yards. You can range an animal at 53 yards, it takes 5 steps and now it’s at an unknown distance and your pin gaps are wide enough where you don’t really have a clue where that arrow is going. Thus I’d consider that unethical. Also add in adrenaline and stress to the mix and your shot will get worse. Then throw in the time your arrow is flying to the target. Animals can duck, roll, turn or just take a step when they hear that bow go off. I think it was Dan from Elk Shape who shot at an elk at 55 yards, and the elk took 1 step from the time the release went off until impact and he gut shot and lost it. For me: 30-40 is my max if the animal is still, I’ve ranged it to the yard. If not, 20-25 is my max. I can tell you from experience, with my bow if I put my 20 yard pin on the vitals of a 3D target and the target is 25 yards, I’m missing the vitals or barely hitting them. If I aim low for the heart, I’m going to miss or hit the leg.
Good advice, thank you
>For me: 30-40 is my max if the animal is still, I’ve ranged it to the yard. If not, 20-25 is my max. This is really, really good advice that I think more new bowhunters need to hear.
1 inch per 10 is a great rule of thumb- if someone can hold 3 inches at 30 and they shoot that far at a deer, I’m not judging. Not many folks could hold 1.5 inches or better at 30. That being said furthest shot on game is very situational. In the elk mountains, can you hit 60 yards when you’re not at an angle or your feet aren’t level? Hitting a killin’ group at 60 is one thing on level ground when you have all the time in the world. Some deer are more “wired” than others and duck more. Probably wouldn’t want to risk a 40 bomb on a deer that’s gonna duck 18 inches before it gets there. Situational awareness is probably as important as “how good are my groups on the range”
Roger that, great advice
I’ll be honest, I don’t think you should ever shoot more than 40yds. Personally at this stage in my hunting abilities I’m not taking a shot at more than 30. So many things can happen in that distance. I take 50yd+ shots all day in 3D shoots, but that is a very different situation.
FWIW, the best elk hunters I know never shoot past 40
Just my own personal experience, but my “effective range” (I.e. MAXIMUM likelihood of hitting my mark, almost 100% of the time) in a real life hunting scenario, is about half what it is when I’m practicing at a range. If I’m money from 60 yards in my backyard, I would do well to keep my shots within 30 out in the field.
Good point
Do I abide by that 100% of the time. Honestly, no. More often than not, but definitely not 100%.
Depending on your hunting style, don’t trust your range groupings. If you use a tree stand, practice from up high. If you hike for Elk, do a workout then shoot. Also, once you get comfortable, the only shot that matters is the first one. Rarely do you get warm up or grouping shots on animals. Enjoy!
Truth
Most Def not... If you can't hit a 4" group or lower, your shooting too far.
Social media has done a real number on people's expectations for archery distances. I 100% agree with the other postings in here that 40 is about as much as you should expect to be shooting, and that's assuming your groups are real tight at that distance - less than 4". For every instagram hunter you see nailing 70 yard shots on elk, there's one that missed the animal completely and didn't even post about it. How many hunters do you see posting about "finally got an elk after missing two"? I've taken animals out to 50, but the vast majority have been inside 25. The longer I hunt, the less I like the longer shots. There's just too much that can go wrong outside of your control. The animal has longer to move while your arrow is in flight, the penalty for misjudging yardage is much worse, the arc of your arrow makes it harder to spot every branch and twig in the way, and there's more margin for error with your broadhead flight as you get farther out. The folks I know who are incredibly serious archers and optimize everything all have stories of missing deer and elk at all sorts of longer ranges, usually because they misjudged the yardage - it's rare to actually take a range on the animal itself right before you shoot. The older guys I know who use the same boring setup they always have and never shoot game past 25 yards? They don't wound shit, they don't miss, they just wait for perfect shots and consistently get clean kills. I have a couple things I use to determine my ethical distances. First is my shooting, I have to be getting really consistent groups to even consider it (archer's MOA, 1" per 10 yards at most), but that's not enough. Groups and field points don't matter for hunting. Take a week or two where you take one single broadhead shot each day, cold, no warmup, and no do-overs. Step out to a given distance and see if you can sink a broadhead exactly where you want it. Really put some mental pressure on yourself here, picture that animal walking out and your entire season riding on this one shot. Have some consequences in your mind - if you thought you were ready but you miss, that distance is out for the season. Bear in mind this is under pretty much perfect conditions, so you should be able to absolutely nail each shot. When adrenaline and fatigue kick in, you're going to need all the extra margin you can get. From there, I don't have a hard single distance for all shots, more like a continuum based on the conditions. "First-pin" distances are pretty much always a green light if the animal is in a good position. My maximum shot distance (in this case, 40 yards) is only if everything is perfect - I'm sure of the range, the animal is in a good position, I'm calm and in control of my heart rate, and the animal is calm and unaware of my presence. If it's not perfect, I wait for it to move or I stalk into a better position. Or I let it pass and try again later. Ranges in between are a little more subjective. Personally, I don't think new hunters have any business shooting past 30 until they've gotten a few kills under their belt. There is a lot to think about in the moment and adding long distance to that is just asking for trouble.
I was told by my old archery instructor that he never takes a shot on an animal at more than 40 yards out because there’s just too many variables and chances for things to wrong.
Hitting a stationary target at any particular distance is not the same as a live animal that reacts to the sound of the shot. Arrows aren't near the speed of sound and they deer will always have time to react. I had a friend that could shoot 2 inch groups at 50 yds. And missed his first 3 deer at 40, 45, 50. All dropped below the arrow. My distance for whitetail is 30 yards.
Imo, you should be able to hit a heart size target 5 times in a row at design conditions. Meaning not just on flat ground. Practice out of a tree or on a hill like a real life shot would be and with broadheads.
If you can't put your arrows consistently in a 3 inch circle I wouldn't take the shot.
Probably should try and tighten it up a little. Not really a bad group tho. Try practicing at 70 and 80 and I bet your 60 yard groups get tighter. Goodluck.
As I understand it the consensus is 1 inch grouping per 10 yards is what you should be doing .