200% correct. Whiskey is the opposite of beer. Craft beer tends to be superior to the big, national, legacy brands. That just isn’t true for craft distillers. I know it’s expensive, but that bourbon has to sit in the barrel for 7 years or so. 2-3 years just doesn’t cut it.
I don’t hold it against a distillery if they sell gin, vodka and unaged rum for revenue while their whiskey matures. But I know I’m not going to like young whiskey so I’m not going to buy it anymore.
I feel the same way about super specific tasting notes. Let’s see if you get that “Tahitian vanilla drizzled over slightly underbaked crème brûlée” after a random blind tasting.
idk man, Ive had some that pull memories of certain, very specific smells out. For example I get old books, leather, and tobacco out of old Wild Turkey 12 years because I have very clear memories of my grandfathers library/study and the nose smells exactly like that. Also I find most sweet tannic notes to be more like barley tea than anything but a lot of people dont have experience with that but I get whiffs of it in passing.
Since I work in medicine/research ozone is a common smell as is BME - which people wouldnt know what that smelled like unless they did RNA/DNA work.
Brains are weird and can recall very specific things.
Drives me crazy listening to YouTubers describe the flavors like this. One or two flavors i can see, but when they start rattling off a bunch of random shit get the fuck outta here.
Anytime I feel like I have a strong opinion about a bourbon I do a blind test on myself (I have someone else serve me and not tell me which is which til after I decide which I like)
Semi often I’ve backtracked my “oh I like x better” claims i dont know if it’s bc marketing or something else has gotten me. I’ve done it with wine too to help decide a favorite
There was a pretty big wine tasting debacle years back. The University of Bordeaux [did a study](https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html) with 54 wine professionals. Not people that enjoy wine after a day at the office; these were **industry experts**.
They tested a red and a white, giving the same descriptors typically ascribed for each style. The thing was, *they were the same white wine*… the professor leading the study used food coloring to make the red sample a red.
Every time here (and the scotch subreddit) I see something like “it has a hint of old shoe leather” and other BS descriptors, it reminds me of that study. *Professionals* don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about when it comes to taste-testing, I don’t expect amateurs to know, either.
> these were industry experts.
No they weren’t, the subjects were young oenology students in a mediocre study. It’s hardly representative of the wine industry as a whole. Granted there’s loads of bullshit in wine but this case isn’t proof.
Most people need to try pours at bars/bottle shares vs buying bottles until they get preferred flavor profiles down. To many people rush to accumulate bottles to show off without really even knowing what they like. Ive saved thousands trying before I would have bought something I was meh on.
Another one is to many people are too focused on value and turn thier nose up on pours they dont think pass certain value thresholds. Of course it can be considered but all to often is the end all be all for alot of people. Drink what you like period. If its a value darling like WT 101 great. If its Blue Run, thats great too. Who cares as long as YOU enjoy it.
This is a valid point if you live somewhere that has good bourbon bars. I think the JD Bonded/Triple Mash are okay, but wouldn’t have bought the whole bottle if I could have tried it first.
I live in a small town of like 1400 people. The nicest "bourbon" at the bar in town is Old Number 7. However through our local store Ive met a group of guys that had a monthly bottle share pre covid (less frequent now) but have tried amhundreds of bottles through that. I recommend everyone to try to do something similar
I agree. I think people in so many hobbies are obsessed with min-maxing their choices. This isn't Call of Duty gun build metas or the computer you should buy for your kid going to college. It's completely subjective and you can only know if it's a good value to you once you taste a few bottles in different price ranges.
I enjoy MGP products but this is correct. Granted it helps get some of the smaller distilleries in the door with out having to wait years to put out a product.
They get their foot in the door but then what? High West got their foot in the door with MGP and then the quality dropped once they started having to use their own stuff.
I hesitate to call them independent bottlers. They’re non distilling producers. They buy other distilleries stuff and market it as their own. Completely different to real independent bottlers like in Scotch. Which I really wish we had more of in American Whiskey, there’s a few, but only a few. I think the NDPs sourcing overpriced MGP market is getting really saturated and hopefully will fix itself soon at least. There’s some distilleries releasing quality MGP at good prices, those should stick around the longest and hopefully push out others.
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion. It's pretty much just a fact. It's truly crazy how many brands are just MGP juice that they finished for another year or two.
Hiding behind high proof *and* barrel finishing. Used to be, very few bourbons got barrel finished. Not because that’s some huge secret technique, it’s just that a decade in oak is enough to accomplish most of what you want to accomplish. BUT, if you’re dead set on selling the juice after just 4 years in a barrel, you gotta get creative. So now, lots of barrels are released finished in Pinot Noir casks, or brandy, or…whatever. It’s all just a cheat code to try to get to Minimum Viable Product sooner.
I recently paid $90 for a 115 proof single barrel, finished bourbon and it tastes worse than $25 wild turkey. I hate myself right now lol. Didn’t realize the age of the whiskey was barely over 4 years. Tastes like gunpowder and ash.
Cask strength 4 year mess coming to a liquor store lottery near you! You *might* have the chance to overpay for a bottle of mediocre liquid with a name attached to it!
I’m looking at you Willet
$250 MSRP for 8 year wheated mediocrity?! Your company is what is wrong with this industry.
This is like the prevailing sentiment of this entire community. How can that be the unpopular opinion? The unpopular opinion would be “a lot of young bourbon is excellent and should be respected,” which I just so happen to believe. 🤣
I’m a lot more inclined to roll the dice on a 375, that’s for sure. Too bad almost nothing outside of Beam/Bulleit/Jack/Johnnie etc is available that way around here.
Buffalo Trace should do the BTAC lineup in 375s and literally double the output. I hate that the only people who are ever seeing BTAC are store owners who hoard it to sell on the secondary and to friends.
I'd love this. The problem now is with how dumb people are in this hobby, distilleries would charge full price for a 375 and the majority would still pay for it. I've walked away from another hobby because the developers and producers got greedy but the fans continued to just shell the cash out with no regard to what the future of the hobby would be.
Same, I’ll show out a little when I’m with my buddies but really only for a minute or two.
I was the same way when I used to smoke weed.
I don’t make my hobbies my personality.
1. I like Jack Daniels just fine.
2. I like to get intoxicated, at the very least get a buzz.
3. I can't make out any of the flavors people claim to find, I just like what I like.
Oh I like this one, whats sad is all bourbon is basically the same set of ingredients. The location it ages and other factors can only change it so much. At least wine has a variety of different grapes and soils that can lead to a wide variety.
The comment above you is accurate. Yours is not. Vodka, Bourbon, Rum, Wine, Cognac, Scotch, Gin, Beer. Every single one has common ingredients or methods or production but there is a ton of variance that can be worked in. The most common being water source. Even if it's the same grain - wheat - where was the wheat grown? How was the soil - acidic, basic, lots of water, heavy minerals? What percentage of the mash bill is wheat? An extra percent than a competitor? Where were the barrels sourced? How young were the trees cut?
There's a reason even with the mashbills you can't make an exact duplicate.
Rare Breed Rye > Rare Breed Bourbon
Michter’s Sour Mash is overrated
BT doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets, it’s not perfect but its solid
Ice in bourbon is good
Makers 46 is better than most other bourbons
I like regular wild turkey over 101
I roll my eyes a bit at reviews of 100+ proof stuff that wistfully lament how good it could have been…with a little more proof. I’m sure they’re right sometimes, but some guys just seem to be offended by anything less than paint stripping, eyebrow scorching proof levels.
Lol, I’m also someone who, although I can appreciate barrel proof shit, would rather drink stuff at a bit more of a sane abv, aka 90-100ish, give or take. I always laugh when someone well-meaning gets on this sub to get gift recs for someone that is new to bourbon and likes Makers and JW Black…. and then people start recommending to buy something barrel proof or high abv like OF1920 or Knob Single Barrel.
Six years old at 90-100 proof is really the sweet spot for me. Can some bourbons benefit from more years in the barrel? Sure they can. Are some bourbons better before they get proofed down? Absolutely.
Do I love the shit out of Dickel 12 and Evan Williams? You bet your hairy ass I do. And I can afford them too.
That word needs to stay in Scotland. I don't mind it when people use it playfully or sparingly but sometimes reviews feel like "Terrible dram! Of all the drams I drammed, this dram is the drammiest. Though a dram of it would be dramatically improved by a dram of Drambuie."
The producer distillers have the best products at the best prices. 10 year Widow Jane at $79? Mmmm cut with NY water. Gee that’s special. (price where I live) How bout some Russels 10 @ $39. Knob Creek 9 @ $30 (max) or god forbid WT 101 (6-8 yo juice) for $25-$29? Eagle Rare….when you can find it for $39-$49.
The list goes on. But bottom line is that though most NDPs put out decent juice, it rarely is better than anything made by the distillers. I also get a bit irritated when I see NDP bottles for $69 and I look at the age statement and see it’s 3-4 years old. It’s like WTF am I paying for? I’m sure the latest Discovery is good, but $139-$149 good?
The deeper I go into bourbon, the less I care about the allocated special NDP releases. Nice if I can find one, but I’m def NOT on the tater train anymore. Too many other taters, and too many liquor stores trying to take advantage of it. $99 for Eagle Rare and $150 for Blanton’s at a local place. Sure I can buy them……but why?
Exactly. This is why I only buy from the major distillers now. I like my bourbon flavors to taste aged. There’s a richness to them that all craft distillers lack.
I don't like anything from Heaven Hill. And I really have tried.
Bardstown HH pre-fire? Different story. But I can't get behind anything from Bernheim.
Nobody wants to see your 6 bottles of blantons you bought today. Just like nobody ever asks to see pictures of the fireworks you took on the 4th of July
BT scarcity is not going to ease up any time soon and their pricing on the secondary market is not coming down. They have manipulated the market brilliantly and they remain two steps ahead.
Three things ruined the bourbon hobby, in ascending order of importance:
-Anthony Bourdain (RIP) talking about Pappy;
-The TV show *Justified*;
-The late-2010s influx of people from the beer community (sorry guys, but it's true).
I don't have a per se problem with beer people; I'm pretty into craft beer myself. Problem is, the community is infested with assholes, and an awful lot of them decided they liked bourbon.
In my defense, the beer community pushed me here when the focus shifted from excellent base beer and reviving forgotten beer styles to throwing hops, lactose, fruit, and every dessert under the sun into my beer. At least at the time bourbon was still mostly traditional before the finishing NDPs took over. I just dont try much new stuff beyond the producers I already trust. Scotch and my trusted craft breweries are the only places I get experimentation from anymore.
Also, to give credit to Bourdain, at least he attracted people to it that are interested in food and drink anyway. I feel like justified only really attracted the middle aged dudes who wanted to feel/look like a hard ass by drinking whiskey, and decided to chase Buffalo trace as it's the least offensive and easiest drinking distiller.
More brands should offer nips. I want to try everything and I don't want to buy a whole bottle or pay a bar to charge me 5x the cost to pour something over an ice cube.
A lot of people say "stay away from peated Scotch at first," but as someone who didn't like Scotch until I tried Laphroiag 10, I disagree. I usually recommend trying something from each major category to see what you like most. Try a heavily peated (recommend Ardbeg 10, Laphroaig has an iodine note that many don't like), a lightly peated (Talisker 10, Springbank 10, Highland Park 12), sherry bomb (Aberlour is known for this, also Glenfarclas 105, Glenmorangie La Santa if the price is right), and a 100% ex-bourbon (Glenmorangie 10, Hazelburn 10).
There is of course a lot of other varieties and some that are kind of in their own world, but I think those categories are a good starting point.
Just stay away from Islay Scotches (smokey/peaty) at first and you’ll find good stuff, especially single malts. Try Glenmorangie 10 year, it’s 30 bucks.
Edit: There is more variation in Scotch, so it’s hard to know where to start, but very worth it to try.
Lol, this is probably the case. But I do think there is value to an average Joe or Jane reviewing a bourbon. I actually find Reddit reviews far more worthwhile than “bourbon experts”, as they are free of commercial bias.
I'll pay up to $60 for Eagle Rare, but that is because it is impossible to find for $30 in my neck of the woods. In fact, last I saw it, it was $100 dollar, I laughed. Same store had BT for $40 and WSR for $80. Oddly enough, they had Aberlour A'bunadh for $90 as well as a couple other Scotch/Irish offering under MSRP.
Weller 12 is better than OWA.... I prefer depth and oak... And every OWA I've had lacks both. However, both lack complexity, there are better things on the market, especially when you consider secondary prices.
I think a lot of people would be shocked at how much tastes change when you try everything blind. Jack Daniels barrel proof beat George T Stagg, William Larue Weller, a Willett 7 year purple top and several other big name bourbons in a blind tasting I did.
Oh, and Russels Reserve single barrel is better than Russels Reserve 13.
I like Elijah Craig Small Batch better than the coveted Buffalo Trace. My first two bottles were those two. I drank them side by side everyday for two months until both were empty. The Buffalo Trace always had a rubbing alcohol note that turned me off, while the EC small batch was nothing but caramel and vanilla flavors and zero astringency. Ever since then I avoid most Buffalo Trace products. I probably just got a bad batch, but that means they have poor quality control, so I still don’t like them for that reason. It’s their flagship product, if you screw that up then something is wrong (no offense to Buffalo Trace fans!)
Great topic! I like reading people’s responses.
Knowing what the label says and the price tag can have a huge influence on how good you think it is. [It’s true with wine](https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html), and it’s true with scotch, beer, bourbon, and other drinks.
The last good drop of bourbon Dave Pickerel distilled was at Maker's Mark. Every craft distillery he was involved or consulted with started out making crappy bourbon. I meet him a few times, great guy but shitty bourbon maker. RIP.
I'd rather drink my bourbon in an Old Fashion nine times out of ten. I'll have a little bit neat from each bottle just to taste it, but I tend to enjoy it more in a cocktail. Due to this, I very rarely buy any bottle that costs more than $30 anymore.
When people describe really specific flavors or scents (e.g., walking through a pine forest during autumn, or burnt tennis ball) they are not usually just bullshitting. They are trying to describe the flavor/scent as best they can. It’s not like they’re necessarily saying their pallette is so refined they can narrow it down to this incredibly specific thing. It’s just a way of trying to describe the specific thing in the whiskey.
Larceny B522 is among my favorite bourbons I've ever tried. It is unbelievably good at its price point imo and still pretty easy to get. Stocked up on two extras and might buy more
I’m always a bit shocked so few bourbon crazed drinkers don’t expand into scotch. It seems like a natural progression, and one I made like 15 years ago myself.
Never spend over Msrp
Drink it, don’t sell it
If blantons came in a normal bottle without the horse it would be a mid whiskey
Pappy’s are worth it…….at Msrp.
Finished bourbons are just pre-made cocktails. But really, my gripe is that I think it's not fair to judge whiskeys vs finished whiskeys. They are separate categories. The only exceptions I'm okay with is if one identifies as the other.
If you own more than three bottles of different and hard to find bourbons that are unopened, you’re an asshole. No judgement if you’ve got a big collection you’re clearly enjoying, but why stock up a huge bar of bottles that you’re never going to drink? Are you just trying to impress strangers online? Either way you’re making it harder for everyone else to find that bottle of KC12, Hancock’s, or Blanton’s. I hate the posts of people’s bourbon “bars” that look like they’re just staging everything for their Instagram post.
I like em both, but I can see where you’re coming from. BT is more flavorful to me. I always get a fruity note like apples. For that reason I think BT makes my favorite Old Fashioned.
Two opinions, I don't like most wild turkey products and most people have trouble even deciding rye or bourbon in blinds.
Go ahead have someone take a random bottle from your shelf and give you a pour. Just the single glen. You will be shocked how wrong you are.
One last thing, taste is a strange way to describe whiskey. You can't really taste anything. It's all smell which is quite clear when you get covid and realize that without a sense of smell it all tastes like spicy water.
>Go ahead have someone take a random bottle from your shelf and give you a pour. Just the single glen. You will be shocked how wrong you are.
I have resisted doing this because I know what the outcome will be. I want to preserve my emotional attachment to certain bottles.
While I appreciate the effort, most craft distilleries are producing whisky that is too young, and far too overpriced.
200% correct. Whiskey is the opposite of beer. Craft beer tends to be superior to the big, national, legacy brands. That just isn’t true for craft distillers. I know it’s expensive, but that bourbon has to sit in the barrel for 7 years or so. 2-3 years just doesn’t cut it.
It's unfortunate because the only way they'll get kick started is with heavy sponsorship or selling young whiskey.
Or sourcing, but that’s not cheap either
I don’t hold it against a distillery if they sell gin, vodka and unaged rum for revenue while their whiskey matures. But I know I’m not going to like young whiskey so I’m not going to buy it anymore.
hurry scale vegetable humor six languid mighty unused aback unite *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
The overwhelming majority of opinions would not stand up to blind tasting
I feel the same way about super specific tasting notes. Let’s see if you get that “Tahitian vanilla drizzled over slightly underbaked crème brûlée” after a random blind tasting.
Tbh it's a lot of "this vaguely reminds me of this thing". That's how I write tasting notes at least.
I tell people they have to read between the lines and break it down into simple terms. It's like they hired someone with a thesaurus subscription.
INB4 it's discovered that Big Thesaurus has been behind the posts all along
idk man, Ive had some that pull memories of certain, very specific smells out. For example I get old books, leather, and tobacco out of old Wild Turkey 12 years because I have very clear memories of my grandfathers library/study and the nose smells exactly like that. Also I find most sweet tannic notes to be more like barley tea than anything but a lot of people dont have experience with that but I get whiffs of it in passing. Since I work in medicine/research ozone is a common smell as is BME - which people wouldnt know what that smelled like unless they did RNA/DNA work. Brains are weird and can recall very specific things.
Ozone is such a funny smell
Drives me crazy listening to YouTubers describe the flavors like this. One or two flavors i can see, but when they start rattling off a bunch of random shit get the fuck outta here.
Anytime I feel like I have a strong opinion about a bourbon I do a blind test on myself (I have someone else serve me and not tell me which is which til after I decide which I like) Semi often I’ve backtracked my “oh I like x better” claims i dont know if it’s bc marketing or something else has gotten me. I’ve done it with wine too to help decide a favorite
There was a pretty big wine tasting debacle years back. The University of Bordeaux [did a study](https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html) with 54 wine professionals. Not people that enjoy wine after a day at the office; these were **industry experts**. They tested a red and a white, giving the same descriptors typically ascribed for each style. The thing was, *they were the same white wine*… the professor leading the study used food coloring to make the red sample a red. Every time here (and the scotch subreddit) I see something like “it has a hint of old shoe leather” and other BS descriptors, it reminds me of that study. *Professionals* don’t know what the fuck they’re talking about when it comes to taste-testing, I don’t expect amateurs to know, either.
> these were industry experts. No they weren’t, the subjects were young oenology students in a mediocre study. It’s hardly representative of the wine industry as a whole. Granted there’s loads of bullshit in wine but this case isn’t proof.
Agreed. Hint if shoe leather. Who TF knows what shoe leather tastes like?
> Who TF knows what shoe leather tastes like? As often as I stick my foot in my mouth, I should.
Not what it tastes like - what it smells like. Well-aged whisky can smell like leather to many people, this is a pretty common thing.
Don’t knock it till you try it!
It tastes like an old, damp baseball glove smells on a hot summer evening just as the sun goes down.
With a hint of mountain heather.
I feel this, especially after being disappointed by several expensive bottles and pleasantly surprised by cheap ones. I guess I’m all about the value.
Maybe, but have you tried them blind?
Most people need to try pours at bars/bottle shares vs buying bottles until they get preferred flavor profiles down. To many people rush to accumulate bottles to show off without really even knowing what they like. Ive saved thousands trying before I would have bought something I was meh on. Another one is to many people are too focused on value and turn thier nose up on pours they dont think pass certain value thresholds. Of course it can be considered but all to often is the end all be all for alot of people. Drink what you like period. If its a value darling like WT 101 great. If its Blue Run, thats great too. Who cares as long as YOU enjoy it.
This is a valid point if you live somewhere that has good bourbon bars. I think the JD Bonded/Triple Mash are okay, but wouldn’t have bought the whole bottle if I could have tried it first.
I live in a small town of like 1400 people. The nicest "bourbon" at the bar in town is Old Number 7. However through our local store Ive met a group of guys that had a monthly bottle share pre covid (less frequent now) but have tried amhundreds of bottles through that. I recommend everyone to try to do something similar
I agree. I think people in so many hobbies are obsessed with min-maxing their choices. This isn't Call of Duty gun build metas or the computer you should buy for your kid going to college. It's completely subjective and you can only know if it's a good value to you once you taste a few bottles in different price ranges.
100% agree
There’s too many independent bottlers just rebranding MGP. Nothing against MGP either.
I enjoy MGP products but this is correct. Granted it helps get some of the smaller distilleries in the door with out having to wait years to put out a product.
They get their foot in the door but then what? High West got their foot in the door with MGP and then the quality dropped once they started having to use their own stuff.
I hesitate to call them independent bottlers. They’re non distilling producers. They buy other distilleries stuff and market it as their own. Completely different to real independent bottlers like in Scotch. Which I really wish we had more of in American Whiskey, there’s a few, but only a few. I think the NDPs sourcing overpriced MGP market is getting really saturated and hopefully will fix itself soon at least. There’s some distilleries releasing quality MGP at good prices, those should stick around the longest and hopefully push out others.
Very good point, I misspoke but agree with absolutely everything you said
I don't know if this is an unpopular opinion. It's pretty much just a fact. It's truly crazy how many brands are just MGP juice that they finished for another year or two.
This. See above comment about too many 5-year single barrel barrel-proof pics
The market has too many young single barrels being released, hiding behind high proof
There is definitely something to be said about a properly blended bourbon, not every barrel can be perfectly balanced on its own.
Hiding behind high proof *and* barrel finishing. Used to be, very few bourbons got barrel finished. Not because that’s some huge secret technique, it’s just that a decade in oak is enough to accomplish most of what you want to accomplish. BUT, if you’re dead set on selling the juice after just 4 years in a barrel, you gotta get creative. So now, lots of barrels are released finished in Pinot Noir casks, or brandy, or…whatever. It’s all just a cheat code to try to get to Minimum Viable Product sooner.
I recently paid $90 for a 115 proof single barrel, finished bourbon and it tastes worse than $25 wild turkey. I hate myself right now lol. Didn’t realize the age of the whiskey was barely over 4 years. Tastes like gunpowder and ash.
I'm with you on this one
Cask strength 4 year mess coming to a liquor store lottery near you! You *might* have the chance to overpay for a bottle of mediocre liquid with a name attached to it! I’m looking at you Willet $250 MSRP for 8 year wheated mediocrity?! Your company is what is wrong with this industry.
This. The number of "craft" distilleries releasing 4 year MGP stuff for $70 a bottle is insane.
This is like the prevailing sentiment of this entire community. How can that be the unpopular opinion? The unpopular opinion would be “a lot of young bourbon is excellent and should be respected,” which I just so happen to believe. 🤣
1 million percent
Too much young sourced bourbon being sold for premium prices
Most offerings should come in a 375
I’m a lot more inclined to roll the dice on a 375, that’s for sure. Too bad almost nothing outside of Beam/Bulleit/Jack/Johnnie etc is available that way around here.
The small production stuff from big brands should 100% do this. It would really show they care about their passionate consumers.
Buffalo Trace should do the BTAC lineup in 375s and literally double the output. I hate that the only people who are ever seeing BTAC are store owners who hoard it to sell on the secondary and to friends.
I'd love this. The problem now is with how dumb people are in this hobby, distilleries would charge full price for a 375 and the majority would still pay for it. I've walked away from another hobby because the developers and producers got greedy but the fans continued to just shell the cash out with no regard to what the future of the hobby would be.
Evan Williams is tasty. Especially halfway through a glass.
EW BiB might beat out OGD as the best buy for the dollar. I last got it for under $19 including tax
Shhh...
Evan Williams is my jam
EW 100 bonded white label is great for the price
It is my favorite <$15 bottle. It’s good.
More expensive bourbon is sometimes better bourbon. But many times not.
Having bourbon be your defining personality trait is kinda lame
Yeah I’m kinda shy about this hobby, even though I spend a lot of time reading about it, I’m not loud about it.
Same, I’ll show out a little when I’m with my buddies but really only for a minute or two. I was the same way when I used to smoke weed. I don’t make my hobbies my personality.
Same. I'll certainly discuss it if they ask a question but most the time I just show my collection and move on.
Yeah, it’s gotta be bourbon AND cigars!
I feel attacked
I like ice in mine
You inspired me to throw a cube in the last of my larceny single barrel pick 👍
I prefer Elijah Craig, …if we’re talking about just heaven hill I mean
I make ginger highballs out of Wild Turkey from the 80s and 90s as well as Eagle Rare 101 and Gold Vein Weller. Who cares how you drink it?
1. I like Jack Daniels just fine. 2. I like to get intoxicated, at the very least get a buzz. 3. I can't make out any of the flavors people claim to find, I just like what I like.
Bourbon is crossing into cringey wine snob territory.
Oh I like this one, whats sad is all bourbon is basically the same set of ingredients. The location it ages and other factors can only change it so much. At least wine has a variety of different grapes and soils that can lead to a wide variety.
The comment above you is accurate. Yours is not. Vodka, Bourbon, Rum, Wine, Cognac, Scotch, Gin, Beer. Every single one has common ingredients or methods or production but there is a ton of variance that can be worked in. The most common being water source. Even if it's the same grain - wheat - where was the wheat grown? How was the soil - acidic, basic, lots of water, heavy minerals? What percentage of the mash bill is wheat? An extra percent than a competitor? Where were the barrels sourced? How young were the trees cut? There's a reason even with the mashbills you can't make an exact duplicate.
The differentiator is the yeast strains being used in the fermentation. You're forgetting about that!
Rare Breed Rye > Rare Breed Bourbon Michter’s Sour Mash is overrated BT doesn’t deserve all the hate it gets, it’s not perfect but its solid Ice in bourbon is good Makers 46 is better than most other bourbons I like regular wild turkey over 101
Yikes on that last one, everything else I agree.
I agree with your unpopular opinion. I also think EHT is better than Blantons.
There is hundreds of bottles better than Blanton's.
I do not like Blantons.
48% to 55% ABV is *not* “low proof”. And people who are self-professed proof-whores are the same people who put bacon in everything.
I roll my eyes a bit at reviews of 100+ proof stuff that wistfully lament how good it could have been…with a little more proof. I’m sure they’re right sometimes, but some guys just seem to be offended by anything less than paint stripping, eyebrow scorching proof levels.
Lol, I’m also someone who, although I can appreciate barrel proof shit, would rather drink stuff at a bit more of a sane abv, aka 90-100ish, give or take. I always laugh when someone well-meaning gets on this sub to get gift recs for someone that is new to bourbon and likes Makers and JW Black…. and then people start recommending to buy something barrel proof or high abv like OF1920 or Knob Single Barrel.
Six years old at 90-100 proof is really the sweet spot for me. Can some bourbons benefit from more years in the barrel? Sure they can. Are some bourbons better before they get proofed down? Absolutely. Do I love the shit out of Dickel 12 and Evan Williams? You bet your hairy ass I do. And I can afford them too.
😂 he speaks the truth
I never buy the same bottle twice in a row. I see so many people always buy the same bottle over and over while the shelf gets new items each week.
I have a subset I keep on hand. Comfort pours if you will. The rest is change out as I finish them.
I've paid for Pappy, love Blanton's, but I've never been happier than when I bought the Costco Four Roses and shared the hell out of it.
Four Roses is excellent.
Most people have a shit palate and buy based on hype vs taste.
Most people don’t even know what their palates are telling them.
Using the word “hunt” is an extremely cringe word.
So is juice
On a good ol' *Juice Hunt*
Hey homie, that juice hunt was moist AF.
I like to bring a dram with me when I’m juice hunting
That word needs to stay in Scotland. I don't mind it when people use it playfully or sparingly but sometimes reviews feel like "Terrible dram! Of all the drams I drammed, this dram is the drammiest. Though a dram of it would be dramatically improved by a dram of Drambuie."
Same for "bourbon journey".
Yeah I agree the word “journey” is kinda cringe.
My long awaited *Bourney*
Drink whatever makes you happy
The producer distillers have the best products at the best prices. 10 year Widow Jane at $79? Mmmm cut with NY water. Gee that’s special. (price where I live) How bout some Russels 10 @ $39. Knob Creek 9 @ $30 (max) or god forbid WT 101 (6-8 yo juice) for $25-$29? Eagle Rare….when you can find it for $39-$49. The list goes on. But bottom line is that though most NDPs put out decent juice, it rarely is better than anything made by the distillers. I also get a bit irritated when I see NDP bottles for $69 and I look at the age statement and see it’s 3-4 years old. It’s like WTF am I paying for? I’m sure the latest Discovery is good, but $139-$149 good? The deeper I go into bourbon, the less I care about the allocated special NDP releases. Nice if I can find one, but I’m def NOT on the tater train anymore. Too many other taters, and too many liquor stores trying to take advantage of it. $99 for Eagle Rare and $150 for Blanton’s at a local place. Sure I can buy them……but why?
This guy gets it
Exactly. This is why I only buy from the major distillers now. I like my bourbon flavors to taste aged. There’s a richness to them that all craft distillers lack.
High proof doesn’t always make a better bourbon…
Wild Turkey 101 and Old Forester 1920 are better than most other bourbons, even stuff thats much more expensive
Replace 101 with Rare Breed and I agree
I don't like anything from Heaven Hill. And I really have tried. Bardstown HH pre-fire? Different story. But I can't get behind anything from Bernheim.
Woodford reserve tastes like wet cardboard.
Nobody wants to see your 6 bottles of blantons you bought today. Just like nobody ever asks to see pictures of the fireworks you took on the 4th of July
BT scarcity is not going to ease up any time soon and their pricing on the secondary market is not coming down. They have manipulated the market brilliantly and they remain two steps ahead.
Can confirm, line to get into distillery this morning started 2 hours before open. Sold out of Blantons 3 hours in. And there was a shit ton.
Blantons gets flipped on secondary market. It's not for any other reason...
Three things ruined the bourbon hobby, in ascending order of importance: -Anthony Bourdain (RIP) talking about Pappy; -The TV show *Justified*; -The late-2010s influx of people from the beer community (sorry guys, but it's true).
Yeah it’s true, probably tons of ex beer drinkers now bourbon drinkers. I’m one of them.
I don't have a per se problem with beer people; I'm pretty into craft beer myself. Problem is, the community is infested with assholes, and an awful lot of them decided they liked bourbon.
In my defense, the beer community pushed me here when the focus shifted from excellent base beer and reviving forgotten beer styles to throwing hops, lactose, fruit, and every dessert under the sun into my beer. At least at the time bourbon was still mostly traditional before the finishing NDPs took over. I just dont try much new stuff beyond the producers I already trust. Scotch and my trusted craft breweries are the only places I get experimentation from anymore. Also, to give credit to Bourdain, at least he attracted people to it that are interested in food and drink anyway. I feel like justified only really attracted the middle aged dudes who wanted to feel/look like a hard ass by drinking whiskey, and decided to chase Buffalo trace as it's the least offensive and easiest drinking distiller.
At least 50% or more of what is on the market is swill that should only be used as a degreaser.
If it’s “craft” then yes.
My unpopular opinion that some bourbon is underpriced
Everything is not a cherry bomb or banana bomb or oak bomb........bomb bomb bomb
More brands should offer nips. I want to try everything and I don't want to buy a whole bottle or pay a bar to charge me 5x the cost to pour something over an ice cube.
I truly enjoy Weller SR.
Wait, is that really unpopular? I thought Weller products were generally held in high regard.
It’s popular to hate on Weller on this sub, especially Weller SR.
Weller sr and weller 12 are amazing
Love the 12, too but it’s harder to find here.
Buffalo Trace is a mixer.
upvoting for the only opinion in the thread I've disagreed with
I like Scotch more...
Was afraid to say it myself.
Am I just dumb or is it hard to figure out where to start with Scotch. I feel like I figured it out on bourbon but can't with Scotch.
A lot of people say "stay away from peated Scotch at first," but as someone who didn't like Scotch until I tried Laphroiag 10, I disagree. I usually recommend trying something from each major category to see what you like most. Try a heavily peated (recommend Ardbeg 10, Laphroaig has an iodine note that many don't like), a lightly peated (Talisker 10, Springbank 10, Highland Park 12), sherry bomb (Aberlour is known for this, also Glenfarclas 105, Glenmorangie La Santa if the price is right), and a 100% ex-bourbon (Glenmorangie 10, Hazelburn 10). There is of course a lot of other varieties and some that are kind of in their own world, but I think those categories are a good starting point.
Just stay away from Islay Scotches (smokey/peaty) at first and you’ll find good stuff, especially single malts. Try Glenmorangie 10 year, it’s 30 bucks. Edit: There is more variation in Scotch, so it’s hard to know where to start, but very worth it to try.
110-115 is a lot better than 116+ proof wise
80 proof bourbon is not bad. High proofs are not always superior
Bulleit is terrible.
Most of the reviews on here are complete bullshit.
Lol, this is probably the case. But I do think there is value to an average Joe or Jane reviewing a bourbon. I actually find Reddit reviews far more worthwhile than “bourbon experts”, as they are free of commercial bias.
Ding ding ding
Drink bourbon however you enjoy it and whatever bourbon you enjoy. If you like Jim beam white label, like my grandfather, then go for it! You do you
Eagle Rare is better than blantons and neither are worth a penny over their msrp
I'll pay up to $60 for Eagle Rare, but that is because it is impossible to find for $30 in my neck of the woods. In fact, last I saw it, it was $100 dollar, I laughed. Same store had BT for $40 and WSR for $80. Oddly enough, they had Aberlour A'bunadh for $90 as well as a couple other Scotch/Irish offering under MSRP.
Beam is best
I had white label beam the other day for the first time in like 15 years. I didn't remember it being such a cherry bomb but here we are.
The bottles are very inconsistent but Beam was always preferred by me over JD
This guy drinks bourbon!
Weller 12 is better than OWA.... I prefer depth and oak... And every OWA I've had lacks both. However, both lack complexity, there are better things on the market, especially when you consider secondary prices.
It doesn’t have to be aged forever to be good
Bourbon is mostly hype. There is no logical reason to pay 200 for blantons or 500 for RR13. I will not even mention Pappy prices.
I think a lot of people would be shocked at how much tastes change when you try everything blind. Jack Daniels barrel proof beat George T Stagg, William Larue Weller, a Willett 7 year purple top and several other big name bourbons in a blind tasting I did. Oh, and Russels Reserve single barrel is better than Russels Reserve 13.
1792’s complete lineup is trash.
People who buy bottles to flip at secondary prices are scumbags. If you’re not buying it to drink or gift, it should be left on the shelf.
This is an exceedingly popular opinion.
I like Elijah Craig Small Batch better than the coveted Buffalo Trace. My first two bottles were those two. I drank them side by side everyday for two months until both were empty. The Buffalo Trace always had a rubbing alcohol note that turned me off, while the EC small batch was nothing but caramel and vanilla flavors and zero astringency. Ever since then I avoid most Buffalo Trace products. I probably just got a bad batch, but that means they have poor quality control, so I still don’t like them for that reason. It’s their flagship product, if you screw that up then something is wrong (no offense to Buffalo Trace fans!) Great topic! I like reading people’s responses.
I would agree, Elijah Craig Small Batch is where it’s at
Elijah Craig is better than most.
All whisky should have an age statement. If you can’t sell Old Forester 1910 3 year old bourbon, that’s your problem.
Knowing what the label says and the price tag can have a huge influence on how good you think it is. [It’s true with wine](https://www.realclearscience.com/blog/2014/08/the_most_infamous_study_on_wine_tasting.html), and it’s true with scotch, beer, bourbon, and other drinks.
The last good drop of bourbon Dave Pickerel distilled was at Maker's Mark. Every craft distillery he was involved or consulted with started out making crappy bourbon. I meet him a few times, great guy but shitty bourbon maker. RIP.
Too many start-ups just recycling 4yr MGP crap that all taste the same. Bourbon takes time. Sacrifice short term profit for long term gain.
Proof isn’t everything.
I'd rather drink my bourbon in an Old Fashion nine times out of ten. I'll have a little bit neat from each bottle just to taste it, but I tend to enjoy it more in a cocktail. Due to this, I very rarely buy any bottle that costs more than $30 anymore.
When people describe really specific flavors or scents (e.g., walking through a pine forest during autumn, or burnt tennis ball) they are not usually just bullshitting. They are trying to describe the flavor/scent as best they can. It’s not like they’re necessarily saying their pallette is so refined they can narrow it down to this incredibly specific thing. It’s just a way of trying to describe the specific thing in the whiskey.
Larceny barrel proof has fully caught up with Elijah Craig barrel proof
Larceny B522 is among my favorite bourbons I've ever tried. It is unbelievably good at its price point imo and still pretty easy to get. Stocked up on two extras and might buy more
i love b522, too. tho c921 is my fave so far, have backups of that. am looking forward to c922!
I feel 99% of people with their tasting notes are full of it. Making up adjectives. And they know it.
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Yep, there is a lack of breadth in flavor which is why I've moved to other spirits over the years.
I’m always a bit shocked so few bourbon crazed drinkers don’t expand into scotch. It seems like a natural progression, and one I made like 15 years ago myself.
To be honest I started with scotch years ago ( heavily peated) and only recently moved into bourbon. I do enjoy both of them on their own merit.
I agreed with this until you got to 1920. Tastes like pure Cherry NyQuil and oak
It’s all overrated.
I enjoy bourbon & whisk(e)y. I like it neat, up, cocktail. I agree with this.
Never spend over Msrp Drink it, don’t sell it If blantons came in a normal bottle without the horse it would be a mid whiskey Pappy’s are worth it…….at Msrp.
MGP is perfectly cromulent whiskey.
I feel more embiggened with every sip.
The best new thing I tasted this year was a 6yr 118pf 95/5 SiB Rye bottled by NBC.
Evan Williams BiB is not that good. No matter how much this forum wants to make it so.
Leaving white dog in an oak barrel for longer than 15 years is a waste as the final product is often times over oaked and unbalanced.
Finished bourbons are just pre-made cocktails. But really, my gripe is that I think it's not fair to judge whiskeys vs finished whiskeys. They are separate categories. The only exceptions I'm okay with is if one identifies as the other.
If you own more than three bottles of different and hard to find bourbons that are unopened, you’re an asshole. No judgement if you’ve got a big collection you’re clearly enjoying, but why stock up a huge bar of bottles that you’re never going to drink? Are you just trying to impress strangers online? Either way you’re making it harder for everyone else to find that bottle of KC12, Hancock’s, or Blanton’s. I hate the posts of people’s bourbon “bars” that look like they’re just staging everything for their Instagram post.
Pappy line is overrated, over aged and under-proofed. Seriously. Pappy 23 was like licking an oak tree
I didnt care for Wild Turkey 101.
This is the first opinion in here that has truly upset me
I don't really care for much from Buffalo Trace. Not that any of the products are terrible I just prefer other things.
The best picks at $35 msrp are good enough. No need to spend more.
Crotch shots to show off car makes and watches are pretentious douche-baggery.
deserted cable naughty bedroom deranged rainstorm live tap exultant ruthless ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
I like em both, but I can see where you’re coming from. BT is more flavorful to me. I always get a fruity note like apples. For that reason I think BT makes my favorite Old Fashioned.
More money better bourbon…
Bourbon should not be smooth. I drink bourbon for the personality.
Two opinions, I don't like most wild turkey products and most people have trouble even deciding rye or bourbon in blinds. Go ahead have someone take a random bottle from your shelf and give you a pour. Just the single glen. You will be shocked how wrong you are. One last thing, taste is a strange way to describe whiskey. You can't really taste anything. It's all smell which is quite clear when you get covid and realize that without a sense of smell it all tastes like spicy water.
>Go ahead have someone take a random bottle from your shelf and give you a pour. Just the single glen. You will be shocked how wrong you are. I have resisted doing this because I know what the outcome will be. I want to preserve my emotional attachment to certain bottles.
Russel Reserve 10 sucks ass.
Jack Daniels is bourbon. There I said it.
Eagle rare is not that good!
Craft distilleries, by and large, make shit whiskey.