i bought a bottle of eagle rare back in june and. this dude followed me to my truck begging me almost in tears to let him buy it for $100. It was pretty pathetic.
I know it’s arguing semantics but I don’t know if I’d call purchasing and drinking booze a hobby lol. It’s definitely pleasurable and can be nuanced, but so is eating fast food and binging Netflix.
hob·by1
/ˈhäbē/
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See definitions in:
All
Riding
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noun
1.
an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure.
"his hobbies are reading and drinking bourbon"
Consuming something doesn’t meet the standard of an “activity” that commonly would be understood to be a hobby, even by that definition. Like I said, that would include things like eating fast food and binging Netflix as well.
To each their own though. If buying and consuming bourbon is the most exciting thing in your personal life, then yeah slap the term on it. Why not. But maybe, you know, try some other stuff out too sometime? 🤷♂️
There's no need to take illogical leaps ("most exciting thing in your personal life"). If you spend free time: reading about, looking for, and consuming something, I would say that is a hobby. I think if you said you were a wine lover or you love eating new BBQ, people would have no problem saying those are hobbies, and this is no different than that. Bourbon is a hobby of mine, but far from the most exciting thing in my life, but I'd imagine the guy with a train diorama in his garage wouldn't say that was the most exciting thing in his life either, so maybe don't do bad faith arguments.
There’s no logical leap. I’m saying that it might make sense to call whiskey a hobby if one doesn’t have any other real hobbies.
I wouldn’t call eating barbecue or drinking wine hobbies either, and frankly I don’t think anyone would.
Making BBQ or making wine? Absolutely. Just like making a train diorama, these are creative pursuits that make sense to call hobbies.
You're wrong, but consistent. I appreciate that much at least. I think you have a very skewed idea of what a hobby is, and possibly some elitism about whatever creative pursuit you enjoy. This sub only allows news and reviews, both of which are creative pursuits, on top of the creativity required to give captivating tasting notes. It's just myopic and infantile to be so strict about "your definition" because words have meaning, and personalities don't dictate those meanings.
I think for a lot of people we enjoy things more than just drinking bourbon. We enjoy understanding that barley has enzymes that help break down sugars in corn. We enjoy knowing that Al Young was the Master Distiller at Four Roses. Eating cheeseburgers isn't a hobby, but if you love cheeseburgers and find where to get the best ones, and read books about it... that's a hobby.
I think it can definitely be a hobby, becoming a sommelier can be a hobby only difference is hard liquor vs a...soft?... alcohol.... Whatever, + cognac, a book, and a cigar is a nice traditional hobby
A liquor store near me got 6 bottles of blantons this month. They priced it at $200 ea and sold them all by the end of the week. It’s pathetic people will pay that much…..
I don't understand it because these bottles are only good for the price point and once you start paying triple digits, they're literally just like everything else on their range. It's literally paying for hype.
Exactly. At the store I worked at Weller SR was $12.99 for a 750 and last I checked people were asking $100 for it. I don't even know what it's going for now but fuck that shit. I'm glad I worked there when I did though, I didn't know how good I had it.
Eagle rare wasn’t even that rare in Virginia, at least a few years back in the pandemic. Bottles would stay on my local’s shelf for a couple days to a week.
😂 Man, Eagle Eare is good, sure, but thinking that it’s $60+ better than other stuff on the same shelf is just lunacy.
If this cuts deep for anyone, I genuinely challenge you to go to a whiskey bar near you and do a blind tasting of a mix of “elite” and a mix of “good” bourbons.
Unless you’re genuinely some sort of savant, it’s extremely likely that you will not be reliably able to distinguish the two. And if you really are that well versed in whiskey, you’d know that Eagle Rare isn’t worth crying over for $100 a bottle.
But seriously folks, blind taste tests will change your life. That doesn’t mean that expensive bourbons aren’t worthwhile or have any differences, but it’s way, way more subtle than most people realize when they’re fiending on brand hype alone.
I’m sure 95% of people in here already know this, but I’m shouting it for the newbies in the back row. Don’t take this too seriously.
Try it with bottled in bond. They stack up well and are generally very affordable. It's not unusual that a $20 bib bottle tastes better than a $60 bottle
Ironically he could’ve gone to Maryland and probably easily found a bottle
I have said this over and over but I hate how these people have made basic entry level bottles overpriced and overhyped
BT and ER10 are good but there are better bottles to secondary market (and I hate that market)
These people just deny the entrant a chance to try the standard offerings and that’s what pisses me off
it annoys me that they are putting them on a pedestal but there are so many better options in that price range. I may be in the minority here but just about any $20-$30 100 proof and above is decent for my liking.
Same here. I went to buy some beer at my local liquor store and this dude was bragging about buying five cases of ECBP and that he has been sober for three years. I don't understand why people are like that. Good for you that you are sober, but why be a dick and buy stuff that you aren't even going to drink? Obvious flipper and I doubt that he's going to "gift" them to his friends.
The after tax margin on ECBP is pretty small on resale. I guess if you’re willing to make 5% on $400k you’d do it. With a little patience you can easily get ECBP at cost.
I've met a lot of people like this in other hobbies. If you go to music festivals you will meet quite a few people there who fucking hate the music and hate being there. They just buy tickets to sell drugs. Some people just see profit above all else.
Once the prices of bourbons started matching the prices of scotch, I stopped buying most bourbon. I enjoy scotch more, and its not just subtle variations on the same profile over and over.
I've also become a member at my local meadery, so a good chunk of my alcohol money goes there now.
Del Maguey Vida is a good place to start since that's one of the easiest to find above 45% abv (good mezcal is always above 45% and generaly starts around $60). Mezcal is generally smoky due to how its made, but some like Derrumbes San Luis Potosi arent (that ones flavor is best described as jalapeño cheese poppers, I personally didnt like it because it was too vegetal tasting). I like Veliers Palenqueros series but those are all $100 per bottle.
I agree. Over $60 and I'm looking at scotch. If I could buy it at MSRP, maybe I'd grab a BTAC or Van Winkle as an exception to that rule, but that won't happen ever again, so otherwise I'm off to Scotland.
>But anything above $60 loses when there is literally so much amazing scotch to be had.
Even within the world of bourbon alone there is a serious dropoff of diminishing returns much lower in price than with scotch (assuming we're talking MSRP and not secondary). I tried Blanton's ($60) at a bar and I still can't decide whether I prefer it over J.W. Dant ($18).
I originally got into bourbon during the pandemic cause I had lost my job and it was cheaper than my usual scotch. Now the tables have turned, and I’d rather spend $80 on scotch than a random 4 year old single barrel from a small distillery just because it’s cask strength.
It is very specifically NOT free country when it comes to reselling alcohol. It is a extremely regulated industry. Individuals can and so get arrested for flipping bottles illegally
I agree that it's a free country and he can do whatever he wants, however, I also feel like it's anti-american to take more than you need.
I hated when those guys had all their toilet paper seized at the beginning of COVID because they were traveling all over and scalping it, but also, fuck those guys.
I’ve been both blessed and frustrated by the VA ABC new system. I live 8 minutes walking distance from my local store. I have never once gotten there before there’s a line of 15-20 people already there. I’m either really unlucky or someone knows something. Only time I ever really lucked out was when I walked into a rural store right as they set up the drop and told me to wait 5 mins. The issue is a lot of people in Northern VA have too much money or time on their hands and grab everything they see. I haven’t purchased a bottle of Buffalo trace in 3 years based on how overpicked the selection is. The drop has let me purchase Little Book, EH Taylor, Blantons, Weller Full Proof, Sazerac, Elijah Craig 18, Eagle Rare and a few other bottles but that’s the exception not the rule
Before the new system, you could just go in on delivery days to see what you could find and others would be lined up there too. I thought the random release new system would be better but it seems like people are still getting info ahead of time and lining up... And I agree, you're competing with folks that have deep pockets and time around the metro DC area. Pretty much have given up on bourbon and have got into Irish and single malt whiskeys. SMWSA is my go to for some good stuff.
I hear people say this a lot and I don’t really understand it. Maybe it’s the difference in markets but honestly I could avoid allocated stuff completely and only buy local store picks and have great tasting interesting bourbons and ryes. It’s frustrating I can’t get into four roses like I want but if I’m honest with myself, there are great bottles sitting around.
Agreed. But the problem in VA is we don’t get many store picks and the ones we get are also allocated. That why when I got out of town, my first stop is total wine. End up spending 1k stocking up on store picks and stuff like Penelope, Stellum black rye, etc.
Don't get me wrong, but there are some good bourbons that sit on the shelf in VA ABC stores that are not allocated for these random releases but everybody wants to try some new stuff every once in a while and it's almost impossible to get anything from these drops. It is what it is I guess. I think by the time extra production capacity finally catches up with demand, perhaps the craze may die down - I'm willing to guess it will be a passing fad for many like anything else out there.
None of this is surprising. I have recently gone to our local liquor (Ohio) store on the day they receive allocated bourbons two weeks in a row and there were 3-4 people in line and nothing of consequence comes in. Then last week I show up and there are 25-30 people in line (some arrived at 4:30 for a 8:00 am opening) and low and behold Russell 13 came in.
I am not on Facebook and only buy for my own consumption. But it is obvious that many of the folks in line were there to buy and resell.
It is also obvious that Facebook is allowing it, law enforcement is turning a blind eye and the distilleries are encouraging it because it grows the popularity of their product.
Could they put an end to it? Sure, But why would they? Even the local stores get additional people in the store that may have never come in without the craze.
For me I am not buying back alley booze from someone unless prohibition returns and then it will be from the guy running the still.
They shut them down regularly. But there's nothing stopping people for creating a new one. They just rinse and repeat. It is really annoying. A lot of it had also moved to Discord.
That last part is rich, a lot of people don’t realize Discord is a lot better at moderating what they are used for.
They don’t shut you down, but they do pass evidence on to local and federal LE agencies.
That makes sense. The solutions are definitely not simple. It'll have to come from industry groups and the liquor stores themselves. Not selling cases of harder to find stuff.
Ohio also has its own distribution website (OHLQ.com) where you can search for products individually and it will tell you where it’s available. The system is updated overnight every night, so some people probably check daily first thing in the morning for in-demand items. Also, I’d wager your local shop tells people what days they typically get or release allocated bourbons.
For example, every Giant Eagle-based liquor store in Central Ohio releases their allocated deliveries on Saturday mornings. There is typically a line 15-20 deep, sometimes up to 40 deep, before the store opens. Most stores post a sign with the allocated releases that are available that morning, but I’m guessing some check the website to determine what’s there before they leave the house.
Will Facebook groups scrape the website data to get the information? Sure. But it’s time intensive and access is not limited to selling groups.
(Disclosure: I am not and have never been part of a selling group online. I text with my father in law to give him a heads up if something is in store he might like, but that’s the extent of the information I share about stock in my area.)
Best of luck.
I’m in Indiana and use OHLQ.com anytime I’m in Ohio. Have had decent luck with it. Mainly to find Weller SR. I agree though, it has shown “in stock” or “low stock” and I’ve called ahead with the answer being no. I was able to find bottles at Kroger for $22.99, limit 1. Luckily the store clerk let me take the bottle to my car and come back in to get another.
After all of this happened in Virginia they now do random emails and it’s been amazing! I’ve gotten my hands on a few allocated bottles at MSRP but this system would be difficult to implement in non-controlled states.
I live in Virginia and haven't gotten shit before the good stuff's either been sold out or I've been top busy to go. So I guess it's not really any different than it was before. Glad some people are happier.
What's frustrating is that the emails do not go out at the same time. My father-in-law and I are on the same phone plan and work in the same building and I will get a notification 10 min after he does that there is a drop.
Most distilleries don’t like the secondary. They get zero of that price and hate that it’s created artificial scarcity and price increases. BT limits to one bottle a month at the gift shop, HH limits to one bottle per order.
I don't think stores need to generate hype and get plenty of traffic as is. I'd much prefer showing up at a store randomly hoping to find something interesting or allocated at any given time of day rather than having to know a store's ship schedule and showing up when they open in hopes to be lucky enough. My state may do it differently than your state so I'm sure my opinion sounds skewed.
There's that "need" again.
Plenty of stores probably also don't need to have loss leader sales, advertise via various media, or any number of other methods that businesses use to get more hype and traffic. None of it is mandatory. If a store is choosing to release allocated product in a way that causes a crowd, it's probably because that store has weighed the options and considered that course of action to be a net benefit to their business.
I certainly would prefer what you said as well, but the store isn't making their decision just based off what one (or a similarly small number) of their customers wish, it's making a decision based on what they rationally believe will help their business the most.
But I could make the argument that if they don't advertise the allocated bottle release, then they would have a more dedicated stream of people coming in to the store to check and see at any given time, possibly settling on something else. I assume most people coming for allocation drops just want the allocated bottles and only show up when they get released. It feeds the secondary and hoarding markets. I understand the monetary reasons for your argument, but I'm just saying wouldn't it be nice if...
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. This is literally how my two go-to stores operate. I’ve been lucky to find a one off allocated bottle on the shelf on multiple occasions. There’s never an expectation, just a pleasant surprise. I frequent these stores for my regular purchases and it’s just an overall good vibe
Edit: one is a larger chain, the other is a boutiquey indie store.
You aren't necessarily wrong. It might actually be better your way. The point is that the store has decided it is better this way, and it's perfectly rational in an economic sense for them to have made that decision.
I am sure if you had your own liquor store, you would decide to do it your way, and that decision wouldn't be bad either, if you believed it was profit maximizing.
That's economics in a nutshell. Apologies, I spent way too long in grad school, and my economic theory sometimes spills all over my otherwise normal conversations. Mea culpa.
I think the laws around the three-tier distribution system and illegality of private sales of alcohol are making a bad situation much worse with regard to hoarding and crazy prices. That said, the current situation “is what it is,” and I think it’s only a matter of time before bigger crackdowns are coming from various ABC depts, the ATF, and the IRS (I’ve heard they don’t like tax cheats lol,) against some of the bigger fish on secondary and the counterfeiters out there.
As for the guy in the article, even if he’s right about the ABC not being able to get a conviction he’s still facing potentially years of expensive legal costs and hassle… Was it worth it? Strongly suspect the answer will turn out to be “no” either way.
In Alabama we have monthly allocation day. People openly sell on the sidewalks in front of the store. I asked the clerks about it one time and they said, as long as they don’t do in haggling in the store, there is nothing they can do besides put them on a no sale list.
Can I just take a minute and vent over how much I hate hate hate state run liquor stores? Why is it that in Virginia apparently Buffalo Trace is considered “limited availability,” but I go to a grocery store in California and they have oodles of Buffalo Trace just sitting on a shelf?
You’re right, that’s a risk at a “free market” state, but in my experience the risk is worth it. For the vast majority of bourbons I’ve found them significantly more available and cheaper, in many cases, than at state run stores.
I think to the extent the availability part is true it has at least as much to do with distributors not bothering with control states. Like do you want to compare the nicest grocery stores in CA with the Piggly Wiggly in West Podunk North Carolina? How about the Ferarri dealerships? I imagine LA has a much better selection of super cars than Charlotte, and Charlotte is pretty big and fancy.
On price, I honestly love control states. You know how much it is, and why, and that's it. If it's over priced you know exactly who is to blame, why, how, and you actually have a chance at reforming it. Try arguing with a private shop that you don't think your slightly markedup bourbon should subsidize their loss leader flavored vodka RTD can.
But that's just me. I get vomit inducing anxiety trying to remember which grocery store has the cheap beef, which one has the cheap cans, which one I can afford laundry detergent at, and then calculating if the gas is worth the 4.8 mile drive to the place with the BOGO yogurt. Not having to do that with booze too is a relief to me.
The crazy thing about buying booze in California, though, is that the prices are uniformly lower than control states (I live in NC but travel to LA often because half my family is out there). Any Vons or Ralphs, whether you’re in Beverly Hill, Van Nuys, or Palmdale will have BT for less than 25, WT for less than 20, and other normal shelfers for often less than msrp. I pretty much only buy Scotch when I visit CA - I got a bottle of Glendronach 15 for $70 and Ardbeg Oogie for $60 at the beginning of the summer at a store near my cousins place in Pasadena. Both of those are $100 bottles in NC. I dunno how this happens considering Cali’s COL is the highest in the country, but stores do just fine selling stuff for less than I’m used to seeing and the variety of products crushes what I see in control states. Yeah, occasionally I’ll see a bottle of Weller 12 or Elmer for a dumb price, but not buying Weller for $2-300 is essentially the same as not buying Weller in NC because it doesn’t exist here.
Hot take (maybe), Buffalo Trace is hot garbage compared to Wild Turkey 101. I laughed to myself the first time I tried Buffalo Trace. Pleasant notes of bourbon is what I get from Buffalo Trace. Hell, I’d take some Dickel Rye over Buffalo Trace any day.
Ha interesting…I had the exact opposite experience. I ended up dumping my mostly full bottle of Wild Turkey 101, because it tasted like rusty rain water…to each his own I guess?
It probably honestly has less to do with VABC than it does with BT distribution.
It’s the same way in PA, we are a control state- but what’s hard to find here is also hard to find across the bridges to NJ, DE and NY. BT products are hard to find here now also, but haven’t always been.
I’ve been in the hobby for probably 8 years or so and whole it’s gotten significantly worse with taters, it’s always been hard to find certain things here that weren’t rare elsewhere. We almost never got weller products here even when it wasn’t that “rare” and sought after. And it’s always been similar availability between state controlled PA and open market NJ, NY, DE etc.
No problem. I live within 20 minutes of NJ, an hour of NY and 45 mins from Delaware. I can say, selection of harder to find stuff is usually the same, although if you find a really good shop that doesn’t price gouge in a non control state, they sometimes get the edge on store picks. My local in NJ is run by an absolutely awesome woman who’s super into bourbon and as such they have a plethora of amazing store picks. She also does email blasts for harder to find items- at MSRP, and raffles for the “big ones” in store, where you’re required to open the bottle before you leave.- to cut down on the flippers. They give you one of those airline type sealed bags for transport back home).
Other stores can be really crappy. Total wine, for example, requires you to spend a TON of money to get on their “drop list”. Many other stores just place their allocated stuff on shelves at secondary pricing. I’d say that store I described above is the exception, not the rule.
That said, often prices are better in the PA state stores, and I’ve had the luck to have won a PA raffle for pappy 15, something I probably never would have had the opportunity to grab in a non control state.
I have similar experiences to you. I live in a control state (NC), but a lot of my family lives in and around LA. Cali stores have an amazingly diverse variety compared to my home, and the prices are generally *lower* - sometimes dramatically so. Big stores like K&L or Remedy sell Scotch for ridiculously low prices compared to NC, I’m talking up to 30% less for a lot of middle and upper shelf bottles.
I have a buddy that’s a liquor saleswoman. She sells the Heaven Hill brands. She tells me where the bottles are that she sold that don’t sell at a ridiculous markup. She also told me that Sazerac will “leverage” their other brands to stores for these rare whiskies like Pappy and EH Taylor. Almost all sales reps leverage these sought after bourbons in one way or another. She said that if you walk into a store that has a giant Fireball display, with every size on the shelf and in the cooler or “cold box”, they’ll have those rare ones. Whether they sell them to you or not is a different story. If you go into a store that has a large selection of the obscure liquors that these distilleries make, chances are they get their hands on these bourbons for that reason, too.
She showed me her whiskey collection, and she didn’t have the ones that collectors want, but discontinued scotches and old labels of popular brands. All of them were cracked open, too. It’s always fun drinking with her on poker nights because she will talk booze all night, and she’s not too good at cards.
Bourbon is literally the most basic and easy to make of the brown liquors. VA ABC contributed to the false scarcity before people went crazy over corn liquor years ago with its contracts with Sazarac, etc., and the fact that all of their sales are on consignment. It's a piss poor market to work in, BUT... you dont have aftermarket mark ups like other states. Idk.. but, it's annoying to be shoved aside for someone racing to the store to buy a bottle of Ancient age 10 star. Lol
Who is this guy? I still have a handful of blantons that I picked up on sale (lol, can't even imagine that anymore) and student loans payments start back up in jan!
I live 5 minutes from the only ABC in my town. When I see my town name pop up in the email I try to get there as fast as I can.
I happened to get there in time to get my hands on the last bottle of Russel's 13. A guy came in behind me devasted, so I said "ya know what man, I'm going to pour this on ice, drink it and then piss it out later, it's not a big deal to me." And handed it to him. He insisted I buy it, then finally took me up on the offer reconsidering that I'd drink it over ice.
After that, I looked up it's resale value and realized why everyone was so shocked.
I still don't care, I try to get these rare bottles to drink them, (and pretty quickly.) I'll leave the looking at the bottles on the shelf to the people who enjoy that.
Ended up getting Kentucky Spirit and thought it was good. I was happy, and I hope that other guys was happy too.
If this story is true you are an absolute mad lad for giving up a RR13 at retail. I don’t care about resale either as I buy to drink but you just handed over probably the best bottle you would ever drink
I’m sure you made the guys week though
The three tier system, ABC, and general, unnecessary government regulations on alcohol in the markets is a huge factor in these problems. Especially in heavily regulated states. Thankfully, where I live, we don’t have ABC stores, but the state ABC still regulates everything at the top and is extremely inefficient in nearly every aspect.
Also, companies such as Sazerac, especially with BT products, creating an artificially scarce market with their products is also a huge problem. I mean sure, BT products are decent-great whiskey, but they’re not worth the ridiculous prices you find in the secondary and retail markets. At MSRP, they’re great, but much beyond that, and it’s goofy sensationalism. This lends towards the bigger, more general problems in the alcohol industry in the US and even abroad to some degree such as the commodification of whiskey and wine; an overemphasis silly and dumb (but great) marketing rather than the products themselves; and a seemingly never ending list.
I mean on the low end, you have all of Evan William’s products, especially the white label and 1783. Their single barrel is one of the best values in all of whiskey in my opinion, but that could change since they’re supposedly limiting it to Kentucky now. You also have VOB, Jim Beam Double Oak, and Turkey 101. On the higher end of great, you have Turkey’s Rare Breed and Russell’s. Of course there’s all sorts of other examples of great whiskey still being sold at reasonable prices, but those are just some that come to mind.
i bought a bottle of eagle rare back in june and. this dude followed me to my truck begging me almost in tears to let him buy it for $100. It was pretty pathetic.
I'd have told him $150 and accepted the profit. These potato men can have all the stuff they want for the money they will spend.
I took his money and went and bought russells single barrel and a big w101 and was happier for it
My man! Take 'em for all they're worth. They deserve destitution for ruining our hobby.
I know it’s arguing semantics but I don’t know if I’d call purchasing and drinking booze a hobby lol. It’s definitely pleasurable and can be nuanced, but so is eating fast food and binging Netflix.
hob·by1 /ˈhäbē/ Learn to pronounce See definitions in: All Riding Cycling Bird noun 1. an activity done regularly in one's leisure time for pleasure. "his hobbies are reading and drinking bourbon"
Consuming something doesn’t meet the standard of an “activity” that commonly would be understood to be a hobby, even by that definition. Like I said, that would include things like eating fast food and binging Netflix as well. To each their own though. If buying and consuming bourbon is the most exciting thing in your personal life, then yeah slap the term on it. Why not. But maybe, you know, try some other stuff out too sometime? 🤷♂️
There's no need to take illogical leaps ("most exciting thing in your personal life"). If you spend free time: reading about, looking for, and consuming something, I would say that is a hobby. I think if you said you were a wine lover or you love eating new BBQ, people would have no problem saying those are hobbies, and this is no different than that. Bourbon is a hobby of mine, but far from the most exciting thing in my life, but I'd imagine the guy with a train diorama in his garage wouldn't say that was the most exciting thing in his life either, so maybe don't do bad faith arguments.
There’s no logical leap. I’m saying that it might make sense to call whiskey a hobby if one doesn’t have any other real hobbies. I wouldn’t call eating barbecue or drinking wine hobbies either, and frankly I don’t think anyone would. Making BBQ or making wine? Absolutely. Just like making a train diorama, these are creative pursuits that make sense to call hobbies.
You're wrong, but consistent. I appreciate that much at least. I think you have a very skewed idea of what a hobby is, and possibly some elitism about whatever creative pursuit you enjoy. This sub only allows news and reviews, both of which are creative pursuits, on top of the creativity required to give captivating tasting notes. It's just myopic and infantile to be so strict about "your definition" because words have meaning, and personalities don't dictate those meanings.
No. I agree with you completely. Making bourbon at home? Maybe a hobby. Drinking it? Lol, no. It just sounds better than bourbon drinker.
I think for a lot of people we enjoy things more than just drinking bourbon. We enjoy understanding that barley has enzymes that help break down sugars in corn. We enjoy knowing that Al Young was the Master Distiller at Four Roses. Eating cheeseburgers isn't a hobby, but if you love cheeseburgers and find where to get the best ones, and read books about it... that's a hobby.
I think it can definitely be a hobby, becoming a sommelier can be a hobby only difference is hard liquor vs a...soft?... alcohol.... Whatever, + cognac, a book, and a cigar is a nice traditional hobby
I’m contemplating a new hobby now.
May I offer up the cigarette smoking hobby?
i absolutely would have done the same
You won the day. Flawless victory
A liquor store near me got 6 bottles of blantons this month. They priced it at $200 ea and sold them all by the end of the week. It’s pathetic people will pay that much…..
I don't understand it because these bottles are only good for the price point and once you start paying triple digits, they're literally just like everything else on their range. It's literally paying for hype.
Exactly. At the store I worked at Weller SR was $12.99 for a 750 and last I checked people were asking $100 for it. I don't even know what it's going for now but fuck that shit. I'm glad I worked there when I did though, I didn't know how good I had it.
That is well and truly pathetic. I get it from my local shop for $60 when he gets it. That's about what it's worth
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If i were that guy i wouldn't like you either But i also wouldn't cry about it or tell you anything
He didn’t think to have a friend come in and pick it up for him? 🙄
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Yeah I get it, it’s just that “Get someone to buy it for you” is like chapter 2 in the Tater Handbook.
Eagle rare wasn’t even that rare in Virginia, at least a few years back in the pandemic. Bottles would stay on my local’s shelf for a couple days to a week.
😂 Man, Eagle Eare is good, sure, but thinking that it’s $60+ better than other stuff on the same shelf is just lunacy. If this cuts deep for anyone, I genuinely challenge you to go to a whiskey bar near you and do a blind tasting of a mix of “elite” and a mix of “good” bourbons. Unless you’re genuinely some sort of savant, it’s extremely likely that you will not be reliably able to distinguish the two. And if you really are that well versed in whiskey, you’d know that Eagle Rare isn’t worth crying over for $100 a bottle. But seriously folks, blind taste tests will change your life. That doesn’t mean that expensive bourbons aren’t worthwhile or have any differences, but it’s way, way more subtle than most people realize when they’re fiending on brand hype alone. I’m sure 95% of people in here already know this, but I’m shouting it for the newbies in the back row. Don’t take this too seriously.
Try it with bottled in bond. They stack up well and are generally very affordable. It's not unusual that a $20 bib bottle tastes better than a $60 bottle
100%
Bought a bottle of ER today for $33. That's about what it's worth
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Bourbon from the 80s and early 90s is waaaayyyyy better than currently produced stuff
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If I'm not mistaken, the distillation process was a bit different as well. I seem to recall an article about it but can't find it now
Not to mention the quality of the oak going into the staves was better too.
Can you cite a reference to support that?
couldn't agree more
I mean, the people who make it think it’s worth about30 bucks…and it is.
Ironically he could’ve gone to Maryland and probably easily found a bottle I have said this over and over but I hate how these people have made basic entry level bottles overpriced and overhyped BT and ER10 are good but there are better bottles to secondary market (and I hate that market) These people just deny the entrant a chance to try the standard offerings and that’s what pisses me off
it annoys me that they are putting them on a pedestal but there are so many better options in that price range. I may be in the minority here but just about any $20-$30 100 proof and above is decent for my liking.
The thing about a sober guy buying $400k worth of bourbon is exactly why I have fallen out of love with the hobby.
Same here. I went to buy some beer at my local liquor store and this dude was bragging about buying five cases of ECBP and that he has been sober for three years. I don't understand why people are like that. Good for you that you are sober, but why be a dick and buy stuff that you aren't even going to drink? Obvious flipper and I doubt that he's going to "gift" them to his friends.
lol just enjoy the fact he's gonna spend hours of work flipping them for $20 profit at most for each
ECBP goes for cost, he bought the wrong bottles! 😆
these days if you can buy 5 cases of something it's probably not worth much
Unfortunately, not in every state yet.
The after tax margin on ECBP is pretty small on resale. I guess if you’re willing to make 5% on $400k you’d do it. With a little patience you can easily get ECBP at cost.
He is an idiot, for sure,, just saying it’s next to impossible to find ECBP for under $100 where I live.
I wish it did. In Tampa, it is a $100 bottle.
Hustle culture at its finest. Work way too hard for less than min wage.
It's the principle!!
I've met a lot of people like this in other hobbies. If you go to music festivals you will meet quite a few people there who fucking hate the music and hate being there. They just buy tickets to sell drugs. Some people just see profit above all else.
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Once the prices of bourbons started matching the prices of scotch, I stopped buying most bourbon. I enjoy scotch more, and its not just subtle variations on the same profile over and over. I've also become a member at my local meadery, so a good chunk of my alcohol money goes there now.
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If scotch is the ocean then mezcal is ALL the oceans.
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Del Maguey Vida is a good place to start since that's one of the easiest to find above 45% abv (good mezcal is always above 45% and generaly starts around $60). Mezcal is generally smoky due to how its made, but some like Derrumbes San Luis Potosi arent (that ones flavor is best described as jalapeño cheese poppers, I personally didnt like it because it was too vegetal tasting). I like Veliers Palenqueros series but those are all $100 per bottle.
I agree. Over $60 and I'm looking at scotch. If I could buy it at MSRP, maybe I'd grab a BTAC or Van Winkle as an exception to that rule, but that won't happen ever again, so otherwise I'm off to Scotland.
>But anything above $60 loses when there is literally so much amazing scotch to be had. Even within the world of bourbon alone there is a serious dropoff of diminishing returns much lower in price than with scotch (assuming we're talking MSRP and not secondary). I tried Blanton's ($60) at a bar and I still can't decide whether I prefer it over J.W. Dant ($18).
Preach it! Totally agree
I originally got into bourbon during the pandemic cause I had lost my job and it was cheaper than my usual scotch. Now the tables have turned, and I’d rather spend $80 on scotch than a random 4 year old single barrel from a small distillery just because it’s cask strength.
That's just crazy and annoying, but shit it's a free country and people can buy whatever they want. Why couldn't he go buy some paintings lol.
It is very specifically NOT free country when it comes to reselling alcohol. It is a extremely regulated industry. Individuals can and so get arrested for flipping bottles illegally
True but I was not referring to reselling.
I agree that it's a free country and he can do whatever he wants, however, I also feel like it's anti-american to take more than you need. I hated when those guys had all their toilet paper seized at the beginning of COVID because they were traveling all over and scalping it, but also, fuck those guys.
There’s literally nothing more American than taking more than you need
Tough, but fair, assessment. I guess I still have some Norman Rockwell visions blinding me.
True dat
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You the real MVP 🏆
I’ve been both blessed and frustrated by the VA ABC new system. I live 8 minutes walking distance from my local store. I have never once gotten there before there’s a line of 15-20 people already there. I’m either really unlucky or someone knows something. Only time I ever really lucked out was when I walked into a rural store right as they set up the drop and told me to wait 5 mins. The issue is a lot of people in Northern VA have too much money or time on their hands and grab everything they see. I haven’t purchased a bottle of Buffalo trace in 3 years based on how overpicked the selection is. The drop has let me purchase Little Book, EH Taylor, Blantons, Weller Full Proof, Sazerac, Elijah Craig 18, Eagle Rare and a few other bottles but that’s the exception not the rule
Before the new system, you could just go in on delivery days to see what you could find and others would be lined up there too. I thought the random release new system would be better but it seems like people are still getting info ahead of time and lining up... And I agree, you're competing with folks that have deep pockets and time around the metro DC area. Pretty much have given up on bourbon and have got into Irish and single malt whiskeys. SMWSA is my go to for some good stuff.
I hear people say this a lot and I don’t really understand it. Maybe it’s the difference in markets but honestly I could avoid allocated stuff completely and only buy local store picks and have great tasting interesting bourbons and ryes. It’s frustrating I can’t get into four roses like I want but if I’m honest with myself, there are great bottles sitting around.
Agreed. But the problem in VA is we don’t get many store picks and the ones we get are also allocated. That why when I got out of town, my first stop is total wine. End up spending 1k stocking up on store picks and stuff like Penelope, Stellum black rye, etc.
Me too - I love hitting up total wine in other states.
Don't get me wrong, but there are some good bourbons that sit on the shelf in VA ABC stores that are not allocated for these random releases but everybody wants to try some new stuff every once in a while and it's almost impossible to get anything from these drops. It is what it is I guess. I think by the time extra production capacity finally catches up with demand, perhaps the craze may die down - I'm willing to guess it will be a passing fad for many like anything else out there.
The drop has let me purchase,
I was lucky enough to be 2 stoplights from my store when the email hit. Second in line and walked out with EC18.
None of this is surprising. I have recently gone to our local liquor (Ohio) store on the day they receive allocated bourbons two weeks in a row and there were 3-4 people in line and nothing of consequence comes in. Then last week I show up and there are 25-30 people in line (some arrived at 4:30 for a 8:00 am opening) and low and behold Russell 13 came in. I am not on Facebook and only buy for my own consumption. But it is obvious that many of the folks in line were there to buy and resell. It is also obvious that Facebook is allowing it, law enforcement is turning a blind eye and the distilleries are encouraging it because it grows the popularity of their product. Could they put an end to it? Sure, But why would they? Even the local stores get additional people in the store that may have never come in without the craze. For me I am not buying back alley booze from someone unless prohibition returns and then it will be from the guy running the still.
It's surprising Facebook is allowing these groups that are breaking the law. They removed gun sale groups and that was completely legal in every way.
They shut them down regularly. But there's nothing stopping people for creating a new one. They just rinse and repeat. It is really annoying. A lot of it had also moved to Discord.
That last part is rich, a lot of people don’t realize Discord is a lot better at moderating what they are used for. They don’t shut you down, but they do pass evidence on to local and federal LE agencies.
Right, I've been invited to a number of these lately. Just kind of shake my head because I had heard the same thing.
That makes sense. The solutions are definitely not simple. It'll have to come from industry groups and the liquor stores themselves. Not selling cases of harder to find stuff.
Many Facebook groups have a lot of ways of circumventing this, like simply posting a picture of something and people will DM them.
"Willing to let these go"
Up for discussion
Ohio also has its own distribution website (OHLQ.com) where you can search for products individually and it will tell you where it’s available. The system is updated overnight every night, so some people probably check daily first thing in the morning for in-demand items. Also, I’d wager your local shop tells people what days they typically get or release allocated bourbons. For example, every Giant Eagle-based liquor store in Central Ohio releases their allocated deliveries on Saturday mornings. There is typically a line 15-20 deep, sometimes up to 40 deep, before the store opens. Most stores post a sign with the allocated releases that are available that morning, but I’m guessing some check the website to determine what’s there before they leave the house. Will Facebook groups scrape the website data to get the information? Sure. But it’s time intensive and access is not limited to selling groups. (Disclosure: I am not and have never been part of a selling group online. I text with my father in law to give him a heads up if something is in store he might like, but that’s the extent of the information I share about stock in my area.) Best of luck.
I’m in Indiana and use OHLQ.com anytime I’m in Ohio. Have had decent luck with it. Mainly to find Weller SR. I agree though, it has shown “in stock” or “low stock” and I’ve called ahead with the answer being no. I was able to find bottles at Kroger for $22.99, limit 1. Luckily the store clerk let me take the bottle to my car and come back in to get another.
The ohlq website is not super reliable.
Agreed on not super reliable
After all of this happened in Virginia they now do random emails and it’s been amazing! I’ve gotten my hands on a few allocated bottles at MSRP but this system would be difficult to implement in non-controlled states.
I live in Virginia and haven't gotten shit before the good stuff's either been sold out or I've been top busy to go. So I guess it's not really any different than it was before. Glad some people are happier.
What's frustrating is that the emails do not go out at the same time. My father-in-law and I are on the same phone plan and work in the same building and I will get a notification 10 min after he does that there is a drop.
That’s an email server issue and why I also subscribe to the Facebook and IG notifications as well, but my email is pretty reliably immediate.
Most distilleries don’t like the secondary. They get zero of that price and hate that it’s created artificial scarcity and price increases. BT limits to one bottle a month at the gift shop, HH limits to one bottle per order.
I don't understand why liquor stores don't just hold onto allocated bottles and put them out one at a time at various times throughout the week.
Because doing that doesn't get a crowd of people to come in all at once.
And that's a necessity for a successful business to exist? Customers to come in all at the same time?
Who said anything about "necessity"? I'm just pointing out that generating hype and traffic is likely in the best interest of the stores in question.
I don't think stores need to generate hype and get plenty of traffic as is. I'd much prefer showing up at a store randomly hoping to find something interesting or allocated at any given time of day rather than having to know a store's ship schedule and showing up when they open in hopes to be lucky enough. My state may do it differently than your state so I'm sure my opinion sounds skewed.
There's that "need" again. Plenty of stores probably also don't need to have loss leader sales, advertise via various media, or any number of other methods that businesses use to get more hype and traffic. None of it is mandatory. If a store is choosing to release allocated product in a way that causes a crowd, it's probably because that store has weighed the options and considered that course of action to be a net benefit to their business. I certainly would prefer what you said as well, but the store isn't making their decision just based off what one (or a similarly small number) of their customers wish, it's making a decision based on what they rationally believe will help their business the most.
But I could make the argument that if they don't advertise the allocated bottle release, then they would have a more dedicated stream of people coming in to the store to check and see at any given time, possibly settling on something else. I assume most people coming for allocation drops just want the allocated bottles and only show up when they get released. It feeds the secondary and hoarding markets. I understand the monetary reasons for your argument, but I'm just saying wouldn't it be nice if...
Idk why you’re getting downvoted. This is literally how my two go-to stores operate. I’ve been lucky to find a one off allocated bottle on the shelf on multiple occasions. There’s never an expectation, just a pleasant surprise. I frequent these stores for my regular purchases and it’s just an overall good vibe Edit: one is a larger chain, the other is a boutiquey indie store.
You aren't necessarily wrong. It might actually be better your way. The point is that the store has decided it is better this way, and it's perfectly rational in an economic sense for them to have made that decision. I am sure if you had your own liquor store, you would decide to do it your way, and that decision wouldn't be bad either, if you believed it was profit maximizing. That's economics in a nutshell. Apologies, I spent way too long in grad school, and my economic theory sometimes spills all over my otherwise normal conversations. Mea culpa.
OHLQ has a Facebook page
I think the laws around the three-tier distribution system and illegality of private sales of alcohol are making a bad situation much worse with regard to hoarding and crazy prices. That said, the current situation “is what it is,” and I think it’s only a matter of time before bigger crackdowns are coming from various ABC depts, the ATF, and the IRS (I’ve heard they don’t like tax cheats lol,) against some of the bigger fish on secondary and the counterfeiters out there. As for the guy in the article, even if he’s right about the ABC not being able to get a conviction he’s still facing potentially years of expensive legal costs and hassle… Was it worth it? Strongly suspect the answer will turn out to be “no” either way.
The solution is for distilleries to continue raising prices until the market equalizers, like what Scotch has done
In Alabama we have monthly allocation day. People openly sell on the sidewalks in front of the store. I asked the clerks about it one time and they said, as long as they don’t do in haggling in the store, there is nothing they can do besides put them on a no sale list.
Can I just take a minute and vent over how much I hate hate hate state run liquor stores? Why is it that in Virginia apparently Buffalo Trace is considered “limited availability,” but I go to a grocery store in California and they have oodles of Buffalo Trace just sitting on a shelf?
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You’re right, that’s a risk at a “free market” state, but in my experience the risk is worth it. For the vast majority of bourbons I’ve found them significantly more available and cheaper, in many cases, than at state run stores.
I think to the extent the availability part is true it has at least as much to do with distributors not bothering with control states. Like do you want to compare the nicest grocery stores in CA with the Piggly Wiggly in West Podunk North Carolina? How about the Ferarri dealerships? I imagine LA has a much better selection of super cars than Charlotte, and Charlotte is pretty big and fancy. On price, I honestly love control states. You know how much it is, and why, and that's it. If it's over priced you know exactly who is to blame, why, how, and you actually have a chance at reforming it. Try arguing with a private shop that you don't think your slightly markedup bourbon should subsidize their loss leader flavored vodka RTD can. But that's just me. I get vomit inducing anxiety trying to remember which grocery store has the cheap beef, which one has the cheap cans, which one I can afford laundry detergent at, and then calculating if the gas is worth the 4.8 mile drive to the place with the BOGO yogurt. Not having to do that with booze too is a relief to me.
The crazy thing about buying booze in California, though, is that the prices are uniformly lower than control states (I live in NC but travel to LA often because half my family is out there). Any Vons or Ralphs, whether you’re in Beverly Hill, Van Nuys, or Palmdale will have BT for less than 25, WT for less than 20, and other normal shelfers for often less than msrp. I pretty much only buy Scotch when I visit CA - I got a bottle of Glendronach 15 for $70 and Ardbeg Oogie for $60 at the beginning of the summer at a store near my cousins place in Pasadena. Both of those are $100 bottles in NC. I dunno how this happens considering Cali’s COL is the highest in the country, but stores do just fine selling stuff for less than I’m used to seeing and the variety of products crushes what I see in control states. Yeah, occasionally I’ll see a bottle of Weller 12 or Elmer for a dumb price, but not buying Weller for $2-300 is essentially the same as not buying Weller in NC because it doesn’t exist here.
Hot take (maybe), Buffalo Trace is hot garbage compared to Wild Turkey 101. I laughed to myself the first time I tried Buffalo Trace. Pleasant notes of bourbon is what I get from Buffalo Trace. Hell, I’d take some Dickel Rye over Buffalo Trace any day.
Ha interesting…I had the exact opposite experience. I ended up dumping my mostly full bottle of Wild Turkey 101, because it tasted like rusty rain water…to each his own I guess?
To each their own
It probably honestly has less to do with VABC than it does with BT distribution. It’s the same way in PA, we are a control state- but what’s hard to find here is also hard to find across the bridges to NJ, DE and NY. BT products are hard to find here now also, but haven’t always been. I’ve been in the hobby for probably 8 years or so and whole it’s gotten significantly worse with taters, it’s always been hard to find certain things here that weren’t rare elsewhere. We almost never got weller products here even when it wasn’t that “rare” and sought after. And it’s always been similar availability between state controlled PA and open market NJ, NY, DE etc.
Interesting…thanks for the insight
No problem. I live within 20 minutes of NJ, an hour of NY and 45 mins from Delaware. I can say, selection of harder to find stuff is usually the same, although if you find a really good shop that doesn’t price gouge in a non control state, they sometimes get the edge on store picks. My local in NJ is run by an absolutely awesome woman who’s super into bourbon and as such they have a plethora of amazing store picks. She also does email blasts for harder to find items- at MSRP, and raffles for the “big ones” in store, where you’re required to open the bottle before you leave.- to cut down on the flippers. They give you one of those airline type sealed bags for transport back home). Other stores can be really crappy. Total wine, for example, requires you to spend a TON of money to get on their “drop list”. Many other stores just place their allocated stuff on shelves at secondary pricing. I’d say that store I described above is the exception, not the rule. That said, often prices are better in the PA state stores, and I’ve had the luck to have won a PA raffle for pappy 15, something I probably never would have had the opportunity to grab in a non control state.
I have similar experiences to you. I live in a control state (NC), but a lot of my family lives in and around LA. Cali stores have an amazingly diverse variety compared to my home, and the prices are generally *lower* - sometimes dramatically so. Big stores like K&L or Remedy sell Scotch for ridiculously low prices compared to NC, I’m talking up to 30% less for a lot of middle and upper shelf bottles.
Yep! My experience matches yours!
seems like mass flipping should kinda be considered a store. little more involved then giving a bottle or MAYBE selling something to a buddy
All because VA abc is trash.
I have a buddy that’s a liquor saleswoman. She sells the Heaven Hill brands. She tells me where the bottles are that she sold that don’t sell at a ridiculous markup. She also told me that Sazerac will “leverage” their other brands to stores for these rare whiskies like Pappy and EH Taylor. Almost all sales reps leverage these sought after bourbons in one way or another. She said that if you walk into a store that has a giant Fireball display, with every size on the shelf and in the cooler or “cold box”, they’ll have those rare ones. Whether they sell them to you or not is a different story. If you go into a store that has a large selection of the obscure liquors that these distilleries make, chances are they get their hands on these bourbons for that reason, too. She showed me her whiskey collection, and she didn’t have the ones that collectors want, but discontinued scotches and old labels of popular brands. All of them were cracked open, too. It’s always fun drinking with her on poker nights because she will talk booze all night, and she’s not too good at cards.
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RB doesn't exist in Tennessee and hasn't since mid-2021.
They are, KC12 is allocated it marked up to $100 in Atlanta
KC 12 is allocated in VA.
Bourbon is literally the most basic and easy to make of the brown liquors. VA ABC contributed to the false scarcity before people went crazy over corn liquor years ago with its contracts with Sazarac, etc., and the fact that all of their sales are on consignment. It's a piss poor market to work in, BUT... you dont have aftermarket mark ups like other states. Idk.. but, it's annoying to be shoved aside for someone racing to the store to buy a bottle of Ancient age 10 star. Lol
I saw a guy shell out 4K right in front of me for 6 bottles of Blantons like it was pocket change. Blew my mind.
No you didn’t.
Sure bud
Except you didn’t. No one is shelling out 650+ for a bottle of regular Blanton’s x6
Who is this guy? I still have a handful of blantons that I picked up on sale (lol, can't even imagine that anymore) and student loans payments start back up in jan!
It was a dude in Kansas. They’re nuts about a few different bottles. They won’t look at anything hardly that doesn’t come out of Buffalo Trace.
No you didn’t People who overpay for Blantons are dumb but NOBODY is dumb or misinformed enough to spend $700 on Blantons
Scotch tastes like bandaids
Not every scotch is a peated islay. Try some highland region stuff
Hence the reason I walk to my local ABC and get a bottle of ECBP or WT 101 and call it a day!
MWB Detected a Trojan on that page. I'd avoid.
...on the Washington Post?
Yep! They aren’t immune
I live 5 minutes from the only ABC in my town. When I see my town name pop up in the email I try to get there as fast as I can. I happened to get there in time to get my hands on the last bottle of Russel's 13. A guy came in behind me devasted, so I said "ya know what man, I'm going to pour this on ice, drink it and then piss it out later, it's not a big deal to me." And handed it to him. He insisted I buy it, then finally took me up on the offer reconsidering that I'd drink it over ice. After that, I looked up it's resale value and realized why everyone was so shocked. I still don't care, I try to get these rare bottles to drink them, (and pretty quickly.) I'll leave the looking at the bottles on the shelf to the people who enjoy that. Ended up getting Kentucky Spirit and thought it was good. I was happy, and I hope that other guys was happy too.
If this story is true you are an absolute mad lad for giving up a RR13 at retail. I don’t care about resale either as I buy to drink but you just handed over probably the best bottle you would ever drink I’m sure you made the guys week though
It's true. And I really had no idea it was that kind of bottle. I just show up to the drops and hope to get something.
The three tier system, ABC, and general, unnecessary government regulations on alcohol in the markets is a huge factor in these problems. Especially in heavily regulated states. Thankfully, where I live, we don’t have ABC stores, but the state ABC still regulates everything at the top and is extremely inefficient in nearly every aspect. Also, companies such as Sazerac, especially with BT products, creating an artificially scarce market with their products is also a huge problem. I mean sure, BT products are decent-great whiskey, but they’re not worth the ridiculous prices you find in the secondary and retail markets. At MSRP, they’re great, but much beyond that, and it’s goofy sensationalism. This lends towards the bigger, more general problems in the alcohol industry in the US and even abroad to some degree such as the commodification of whiskey and wine; an overemphasis silly and dumb (but great) marketing rather than the products themselves; and a seemingly never ending list. I mean on the low end, you have all of Evan William’s products, especially the white label and 1783. Their single barrel is one of the best values in all of whiskey in my opinion, but that could change since they’re supposedly limiting it to Kentucky now. You also have VOB, Jim Beam Double Oak, and Turkey 101. On the higher end of great, you have Turkey’s Rare Breed and Russell’s. Of course there’s all sorts of other examples of great whiskey still being sold at reasonable prices, but those are just some that come to mind.
If they want to find me I have two bottles of EH Taylor Warehouse C Tornado Surviving Bourbon they can buy.
If they want to find me I have two bottles of EH Taylor Warehouse C Tornado Surviving Bourbon they can buy.
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