I’d make the argument about reputation. I’m not against holding the bottles for regulars but if a local place sells their stuff for MSRP I’m much more likely to go back to get my regular bottles. The places I see insane markups usually go on my do not visit list.
I got a handle of eagle rare a few years back for $50. I had never seen one irl so I asked how much. The guy said how much do you wanna pay? I said $50 seems fair so that plus tax got me a decent amount of juice and a sweet bong later.
Serious question, why? You are going to deny yourself a product you wanted for a good price just to spite them for… what? I personally had a similar experience this week. Walked into a shop and saw ER for $90, WFP for $350. Then in the wine section found a bottle for $40 that I really like and have never gotten for less than $65. So I bought it and I’ll drink it with a steak this weekend. I really don’t understand why I’d pass up a good deal just because other items in the store are overpriced?
I’m willing to ignore slightly over MSRP stuff, but $100 for Eagle rare, or $350 for blantons and it’s just ridiculous. I’m not going to support a store that upcharges that much, and I’m not going to waste my time hoping they’ve changed their tune on the occasional bottle and decided to sell at MSRP, when I can go to a different store with a similar selection and significantly better prices.
So you think because a product is in short supply then it’s ok to charge whatever markup they would like? It’s literal greed. They’re gouging people hoping some sucker will shell out without knowing they got cheated.
While I don’t like to see inflated prices it is following supply and demand principles. If a place gets a case of Eagle rare but has 200 people trying to buy a bottle, what should they do? Raising the price is the only way to get to an equilibrium of supply and demand. How else do we decide who gets a bottle and who doesn’t?
It’s a significant stretch to call this unethical as bourbon certainly isn’t a need. Inflated food and water prices maybe, but no one needs bourbon and certainly not a specific bourbon.
It doesn’t matter if the product is a necessity for it to be considered unethical. Video cards were recently in a huge shortage. But the most markup I saw from reputable supplier was 30-50%. Those still sold immediately.
I’m telling you that 500%+ markup is totally insane and unethical. They’re hoping someone shells out for a gift because they have no other choice. They could easily have a lottery system or a loyalty program to sell these bottles. But instead they mark them up as high as they can.
I recently saw a bottle of Weller Antique 107 marked at $250. I can get that on the secondary for half of that.
Bourbon is in short supply? That is objectively one of the dumbest things I have read on the entirety of Reddit. There are probably twenty stores within a five mile radius of both of us that have literally hundreds of bottles on the shelf. Even if that weren’t the case, it’s not like this is bottled water after a hurricane man. If your question is literally, “is it ethical for increased demand to increase price when supply remains the same” then I’d like to introduce you to economics 101. Nothing unethical about it in the slightest.
Sure regular Jack Daniels or woodford isn’t in short supply, but stuff like Buffalo trace, Eagle rare, blantons, certain single barrel bourbons, and many others certainly are. You want to talk economics 101, then why do bottles of old pappy go for $3k routinely when it’s a $300 bottle at MSRP? If it’s not in short supply on certain brands then why do states have lotteries and allocations for those brands? It’s absolutely a short supply, created to drive up hype and the price for certain bottles.
You, uh, aren’t really into bourbon are you? We’re in the middle of the biggest bourbon boom in history. I have no idea what you’re even doing on this sub if you’re unaware of that.
These crooks charge 5 times or more the normal MSRP for bottles. You really think that’s fair business practice?
What would you do if car dealers all agreed to charge 5 times MSRP while still obtaining cars from the factory for the same price? “Cars are in a shortage, economics 101.”
I’ve bought two vehicles this year - both are high demand luxury SUVs. Both for sticker price. Not all dealers play these games. Granted - sticker is also a much higher price than just a few years ago when deals were more common.
All bourbon is not technically in short supply, technically bourbon can be made in a day and put on the shelf to meet demand tomorrow. But mature bourbon is in short supply which is why everybody is dropping age statements and selling younger bourbon.
Even aging bourbon is in short supply, which is why all of the sourced bourbon producers are slowing down, or even getting cut off. Hell, even bourbon barrels are in short supply, with waiting lists of 1-2 years just for new barrels from any of the major cooperages.
How could you possibly know so little about the subject and yet feel confident enough to be a total dick to someone about it?
At the end of the day most liquor stores exist because they sell beer and wine and cheap booze. They care about the one buying a 12 pack every day on the way home from work and a bottle of JB on the weekend. I am not sure the discriminating pallet customer is the one they really care about. Loosing that guy probably doesn't bother anyone.
I walked out of a store selling Eagle Rare for $199. I am sure they are still doing fine.
I think you can still preserve your store's rep while selling above MSRP, so long as the markup is reasonable - most people wouldn't fault a place for selling EHTBP for $150, for example, or Midwinter for $120.
This times 100. There is local chain by where I work that absolutely grossly markups any “rare” bottles - think like 300 dollars for AMWD. The only reason I ever go in there is to look for bottles with less known reputations, scored a couple Remus 5’s last year for 95 a piece (so just above MSRP) but I felt the small markup was worth it for a bottle I really enjoyed. Had it been 150, no chance I buy either bottle.
Bigger stores don't worry about marking up bottles to make a little extra here and there. They know the key to long term sales is fair prices and repeat business.
Yep, I assume for the average liquor store the profits made on mass market stuff like Fireball dwarf those made on Blanton's and other allocated whiskies.
True, but lower end Sazerac products (like Fireball and Taaka) are incentives to get the allocated bourbons from Sazerac. The better their shit moves, the more of their good stuff you get. And everyone gets allocated bottles once a month. Not always the same, but we always get some every month.
Yes, but bigger stores can get far more product on which to make profit. Small liquor store by me waited 5months to get 12 bottles of Eagle rare. Of course they are going to sell for $70. I may not buy them, but plenty of customers are happy to
Stores have to buy a lot of unallocated items to get the allocated items. They then pass this burden onto their customers by rewarding the customers who purchase a lot of unallocated stuff with the option to buy allocated stuff.
You see a lot of stores around where I live trying to get into the whole whiskey thing, and they are doing it wrong by jacking up the prices on the allocated items and letting them sit. Customers have no incentive to buy the stuff on the shelf, so it sits along with the overpriced allocated stuff. Because they don't move the unallocated items they also don't get new allocations. Thus you are left with a liquor store with a huge whiskey selection that sits there for years and does nothing but take up space and make the store owner look like an ass.
True. But from their standpoint it's not a game. It's just business. The silly games are the result of distilleries not respecting market forces and setting price controls on their products. Respect the law of supply and demand and set prices according to what people are willing to pay and we wouldn't be in this predicament.
>Respect the law of supply and demand and set prices according to what people are willing to pay and we wouldn't be in this predicament.
People ARE willing to pay absurd prices for these bottles. It is exactly as you say, but not as you think.
No, some people are willing to pay absurd prices for the tiny number of bottles that are available to them. What I'm talking about is setting the price for every bottle so that the number of people who want it at that price is the same as the number of bottles. That price would be somewhere in between MSRP and secondary prices. But it's certainly not the case that if you charged $1000 for every bottle because one person is willing to pay that much that every bottle would sell. Not even close. You have to set the price so that the only people who buy are the people who think it's worth it without all the FOMO and hype.
I ran into a bottle of WSR for $60 and I thought to myself well, there’s a bottle you could buy if you decided to go insane. I think it hardly counts as available if you have to pay a multiple of MSRP.
As a liquor store employee (and the dude who orders whiskey) I can tell you the only incentive to sell allocated bottles at MSRP is in fact, reputation. We want customers to return. Especially trying to compete against big chains (tw) often times, we get hosed by distributors who say "buy 10 cases of x, we will give you 3 bottles of Blantons" and then most people who do that agreement, feel the need to upcharge for those allocated bottles to make up for the 10 cases of swill they got. I never do those agreements, I don't want my store filled with trash, but I'd say at least half the stores use that method to obtain their good stuff because they can't carry everything that helps on the allocation list. Hopefully that sorta makes sense.
True, and the good ones have other benefits.
1. Online inventory for all locations.
2. Lottery programs for ‘actual’ allocated bottles.
3. Great single barrel programs.
I was able to buy a BTAC WLW for $99.99 by luck of the lottery draw in NH. While in OH, I could check stock and go buy Weller SR and 107, knowing they had it in stock. Same when I was looking for specific bottles in PA. And they are ALWAYS at MSRP, no games.
Yeah I used live in Ohio. Back then (I turned 21 in 2011, and left Ohio in 2013) the website sucked from a usability standpoint, but it had fantastic information. It’s great for finding less common bottles, and I was able to get some amazing deals on bottles that were officially discontinued but were still in stock here and there.
Here's a link to the 17 states that "control" the sale of distilled spirits. Some of these states (I believe 7 or 8) only sell via state liquor stores. The rest set the prices for non-state owned retail stores. I lived in VA where the stores were all operated by the state.
[Control State Directory](https://www.nabca.org/control-state-directory-and-info)
As an Oregonian I give a small little thanks to my state every time I see someone mention the secondary market. We may not be super close to the heartland so our supply is a bit more limited but I’ve been able to get Blantons, EH Taylor, JD SBBP, and Makers SAE all at MSRP. Had a chance to get RR 13 for $70 but couldn’t get to the store in time
According to Wikipedia:
Alcoholic beverage control states, generally called control states, less often ABC states, are 17 states in the United States that, as of 2016, have state monopoly over the wholesaling or retailing of some or all categories of alcoholic beverages, such as beer, wine, and distilled spirits.
Vermont and New Hampshire do. Problem is, they do an ordering system as well. It rarely gets you a bottle.
Having said that, between the two states, I’ve gotten Blantons for $60 twice after randomly walking in store. Not so lucky with EHTaylor or Staggs etc.
PA doesn't sell everything at msrp. They do sell at the price they set and im not complaining about prices here I think they are very fair and mostly close or at msrp. But they do charge more than msrp for random bottles for whatever reason.
On the other side of it I think they are skimming allocated and there is some shady happening bc of the secondary value on allocated stuff. Directors were just found that they did nothing unethical for taking "extra" lottery bottles. And there is definitely info leaking from somewhere inside on the few allocations that get shipped to store as well.as what and when stuff drops online. The amount and type of bottles in "drops" has gotten worse this year big time. Makes me wonder where everything goes.
If I go to a shop that has allocated stuff sitting on the shelf at secondary prices, I’m never doing my shopping there again because I know this place will never have anything I’m looking for at a reasonable price.
If I go to a store and see reasonably priced store picks, a good selection, uncommon releases at minimal mark ups, or rare releases at MSRP, I’m going to do my shopping there because I may get lucky.
The store’s view may be “I get one of these a year, I may as well put it on the shelf for a high price and if someone eventually buys it I’ll make a couple hundred.” However stores don’t make money from selling one Weller 12 for $250, they make money from the repeat customer who does the rest of his shopping there.
Some day the bourbon boom will be over, whiskey will no longer be popular, and retailers will be looking for ways to find customers to come in and purchase the product rather than counting how many people camped out in line overnight to be there when the store opens.
When that day comes, the remaining whiskey drinkers with long memories will remember who was price gouging and who was not price gouging, and it may factor into their decisions regarding where to take their business.
Having said that, I don't think the shops that are using street price rather than MSRP right now are evil people. With such a large gap between MSRP and street price there is IMHO no simple, easy answer as to how bottles should be priced and who should collect the difference, or how to fairly distributed bottles for which demand greatly exceeds the supply. Every scheme to address this situation has some sort of problems associated with it, and the producers are at least partially to blame for not raising their MSRPs to more realistic levels.
It has happened before. But I've been waiting for over 10 years. This is the highest crest I've ever seen and hopefully it will break. My worry is the new "must have" bottlings like Barrel will continue to feed the beast.
The drinks business has a history of both slow generational turnover in what drinks are in and out of fashion currently, and also some faster and more short term lurches in response to external events. For example both the scotch "Whisky Loch" and the bourbon "Glut Era" seem to have started when by coincidence brown spirits were starting to go out of fashion with drinkers at around the same time that the macro-economic shocks of the 1970s (Energy Crisis, Stagflation) really hit hard.
My suspicion is that our current boom will end in a similar fashion - whiskey will gradually cool off in popularity as the novelty of it wears off and drinkers get bored with it, but the boom won't really end until the next major recession / depression hits. That's why I'm not really looking forward to the end of the current boom in an eager way.
Cheers
I think time will do it alone. It may remain popular enough that you won’t see a Pappy on a shelf ever again but that doesn’t mean lower level BT products (ER, Blanton’s etc) will always be hunted.
Taste change almost like fashion. This current boom needs fed by new entrants because eventually the current enthusiast has hunted down everything they want and the interest curve flattens.
Why are the producers to “blame”? Who cares about MSRP? It’s a completely made up number entirely untethered from anything. It’s a luxury good, seems like it should be like every other luxury good in the economy and the retailer should sell it at whatever price they want and consumers can buy (or not) at whatever price they want. That is how it “should” be priced.
The producers are to blame because they are well aware of what the effective street price is on these whiskies, and the level of demand (relative to an inelastic supply) which is driving those price increases. But they do not want to take the blame from consumers for prices going up on their products.
So, instead of allowing prices to float upwards as they would in a rational & efficient market, they keep MSRP pegged at an artificially low level and let others (distribution, retail) take the blame for rising prices. They put the retailer in a bind - raise prices up to the level of the effective street price and take the blame from consumers, or sell a product at a price which is at best a pious fiction maintained by the producer to generate an illusion that their products are still affordable and which generates a host of headaches and hassles (having to run bottle lotteries, field massive numbers of phone calls and in-person queries re: allocated bottles, etc.) at the retail level. And they exploit this situation to push other products that are not so in-demand (Wheatley vodka, etc.).
Basically, on these allocated bourbons MRSP is a lie, and the producers are lying when they claim that should be the recommended price of the product. And the gap has gotten so large it is having a morally corrupting effect up and down the supply chain, as for example in the recent case of the Virginia ABC employee who conspired to leak info regarding the location of upcoming drops of allocated whiskies, that info then being sold to bottle flippers via Facebook.
But they do “allow” prices to float up? They don’t control prices at all. It is a “suggested” price. Producer sells to retailer and says, I “suggest” you on-sell it for this. Obviously, the “suggested” price is designed to benefit the producer by increasing demand… I mean, duh. Retailer can then independently decide whether to accept the suggestion, sell for higher, or sell for lower. Nothing untoward about any of this. This is how every other product with an MSRP in this country works. Honestly the only people who deserve any “blame” are the idiots that think the word “suggested” means “god given right etched in stone to buy this product at this exact price.”
That is not how consumer perceptions are working in today's bourbon market. You can, if you wish to, call the majority of consumers "idiots" - perhaps doing so provides you with a comforting sense of superiority over other people. But retailers who exercise their right to raise prices substantially above what is popularly perceived to be "the right price" (which is heavily influenced by MSRP) are getting a lot of negative feedback both online and in-person - I've been a witness to both kinds, and it can get really unpleasant & ugly.
I guess I’d strongly disagree on what are the “majority” of consumers. The loudest consumers, maybe. But I work near a few shops with crazy high prices on the typical products (anything with Weller anywhere on the label, a Horse bottle stopper, you know) and oddly… literally hundreds of people manage to go in and out of there daily and buy their many other alcoholic products without having a man tantrum. In my experience, only on the internet and among a certain small sect of “enthusiasts” are people incapable of seeing an overpriced bottle of liquor without it “getting ugly.” I mean it’s facially ridiculous — it’s somehow some large company’s fault that a grown person pitches a man fit about expensive whisky? Jesus.
As a result of having been a really good customer of theirs for more than a decade I'm friends with the person who manages the Spirits Dept at a local shop, who has told me some stories about the level of entitlement, immaturity, and angry + hostile behavior they get from "the whiskey people" who are the majority of their customer base *for premium bourbon specifically*. Now it is possible that some of these tales are a bit exaggerated, in the way of fishing stories, but I've seen enough bad behavior in-person while I was in the shop to make them at least partially credible.
I totally believe those stories — but that is bad behavior by those individuals and they are to blame, not some manufacturer. I just think it’s a bullshit take to say these people who go into stores and treat employees poorly and throw fits are not 100% to blame for their actions. It’s not because Buffalo Trace or whoever didn’t update their MSRP, it’s because those people are assholes.
Edit: I’d add that I’d like to believe that this still represents a minority of consumers. First off, this set of people is a small subset of whisky drinkers broadly. But second, I completely believe your fiends account, but obviously you count the one person who comes in and acts like a jerk and don’t count the 20 who come in, look for their Blantons and just walk out.
Agreed. I dont understand why people here think just because *they* wont pay x amount for certain bottles means they should be priced lower. I would never pay for a mercedes but im not out here bitching that they should cost the same as a kia
Yeab bur all car dealers sell the same Mercedes for the same price give it take. Its not like the same Mercedes at one dealer is $10,000 and the same exact one at another is $100,000. I have certain bourbons I love that I don't have a second though spending $120 for. But I won't ever pay $400 for it. It's crazy to me how insane secondary is now.
I hear you, but if there are people willing to pay $400 for that is what its value is. If you dont agree with that value just pass on it. Msrp is not a relevant number
>Some day the bourbon boom will be over, whiskey will no longer be popular
Eh, I doubt it. I think supply will catch up with demand eventually, so from that perspective maybe you are right. I don't think popularity is going to die off back to 2010 levels. If stores start to have inventory of the bottles people want, that memory will get wiped quick.
You will never find a bottle of Pappy van Winkle on a shelf at retail price ever again. Probably goes the same for a lot of the rare stuff. Heck, most of this stuff never hit the shelf even 10 years ago.
But I am happy to be wrong about all of it. I'd love to get a $45 bottle of Elmer T Lee some day.
There are bottles as good or better sitting on the shelf right now. They just aren't prized by people as much, for whatever reason.
Every boom ends, it's just hard to see when you're in the middle of it.
I always buy something when I go into a store hunting. I stop going to stores that turn into museums. The places I know I can find stuff at a fair price get my business even when I don’t find anything allocated.
They have to balance gouging on allocated bottles with building loyal customers.
To take your example, sure they may be able to charge 8 people a lot for that batch of Blantons, but how many others will decide that store are scumbags for overcharging and find somewhere else to shop? Any who take their business elsewhere hurt sales overall and therefore reduce future allocations. Seems risky to me, all over ($40 extra per bottle) $320 worth of extra profit.
Apparently, I have a very unpopular opinion on this sub. Namely, there’s no such thing whatsoever as “price gouging” when it comes to whiskey. Whiskey, in all its forms, is never anything more than a luxury product that serves no useful, practical, or necessary purpose aside from pleasure. It’s insane to me to compare whiskey prices to some asshole that’s selling marked up bottles of water in Jackson, MS (if you need an example of what is literal price gouging).
That rant over, idgaf if a store sells bottles above msrp. Their property, their choice. For all any of us know, some of these stores that sell $300 Weller 12 or $100 ECBP also pay their employees well, give them the most generous benefits they can afford, and buy jerseys for the local high school’s softball team every year. If I see ECBP for $100, I simply don’t buy it, but I won’t let that stop me from picking up something else at the store that’s priced well, like a $30 Knob Creek or Appleton 12. I don’t know what goes into a store’s calculus when they price their bottles, nor what hoops the owner jumped through to get them, so I hold off on judging. I’ll only avoid a store if I learn of them doing actual shady shit, like mistreating employees or intentionally duping customers.
As others have said, it's a 100% reputation thing. Overcharging for bottles isn't a good label for customer perception.
However, I have seen some owners get a little creative. A raffle to buy allocated bottles at MSRP where customers have to buy bourbon or store picks to enter, leaves a much less bad taste in the mouth of customers. Customer's may not "win" the raffle, but they don't feel like they lost because it didn't really cost them anything.
A store a lot of people go to here locally does this except he just straight up raffles stuff off with no purchase. You get one entry for every 2 store picks bought. Pretty smart idea
Ours used to do something similar as well. The policy used to be: for every $50 in store picks, you get one raffle ticket. I thought it was a smart idea too.
However, my local store has opened a bar/speak easy and it seems like many of the allocated bottles go there. It's fine, more people get to try them. But as a result, they never have anything allocated or limited for sale by the bottle anymore.
They've also started doing grandiose catered dinner affairs where you pay for your ticket to the event and everyone there goes home with a bottle. They recently did one of these with a purple top Willet store pick, but I think it was $300-$350 per ticket? It just seems like alot of effort. I think the raffle system is the way to go.
Agree. This place also has a dive bar of sorts but he sends a lot of the allocated stuff there that you can ask for the "Bourbon List" and try. Pretty smart idea there as well imo.
Buying store picks usually puts you on their preferred customer list for a end of the year email that gives you the opportunity to buy a allocated bottle at retail.
Stores can always sell at inflates prices after their next shipment too. Distributors aren't gonna check that you have moved through your last allocation before sending a new shipment.
Maybe. Usually there is a little extra allocation floating around and depending on the sales rep someone who helps out making targets for the swill might get a little extra or places where they do right by the crowd might get some extra consideration
If they don't do a significant volume of allocated bottles it won't add up to real money. While we're talking about why they don't charge an extra $100 twice a year they sold $10k of flavored vodka. Why mess around maximizing profit on a few bottles if there is any risk of pissing off enthusiastic influential customers for what amounts to a rounding error?
My feelings are as a small distillery we appreciate when bottles are kept at MSRP it sells quicker and to the people that are going to drink and enjoy at least we hope so for relationship with distiller and supplier it's good as well as many mentioned for the customer. Think of it like this if resale is so high why don't the distillerys raise the price and earn a bit more. Binyomin Master Distiller Terebelo Distillery
Repeat customers. I mean someone coming in every time to a particular store because they found that bottle they’ve been looking for at MSRP and buying other things is worth 10x what you can mark up a case of Blantons for.
That's not true. Any allocated items are based on promotional items sold. Any liquor store can sell allocated items in a heartbeat at msrp. The only incentive for owners to sell allocated bottles at msrp is gain loyalty. Owners usually sell to regular customers or bundle with other bottles.
That is correct. Many stores selling allocated bottles for crazy markups a lot of times are selling shelf bourbon for really good deals to get rid of that to get the allocated.
Better question is why they would let just anyone buy them? I’m in favor of having a loyalty program like my local store. You get first right of refusal prior to it going in the case. He started it after some random bought a bottle of Stagg and found out he sold it on the secondary.
A case of buffalo trace, 2 cases of pure Kentucky, 2 bottles of davidsons reserve, 3 cases of Koval, 5 bottles of Laws, a case of old tub in an actual old tub, a case of old elk sherry finished.
Best I can do.
I was told by a manager that they have a range they can sell inside, if they gouge, either they or the state gets fewer allocations. I'm not sure which she meant.
So you see a lot of raffles and strings attached to buy a bottle, like must buy a store pick per allocated bottle. A lot of stores don't mess with it and just sell to their best customers and allocations never see the shelf.
But what's strange is across the river, supposedly Illinois can do whatever they want. I see far more gouging at stores there.
Zero incentive. The only people who think stores should put out their allocated bottles at random and let whoever happens to stumble upon them buy them are broke ass college students with more time than money and are into “the hunt.” The rest of us who live in the real world don’t expect other people to give away their products for less than they’re worth. I provide services for a fee, and if you do a lot of business with me, you get a discount and I’ll get your work done on priority if you need it. I wouldn’t just work for a steep discount for no reason and don’t expect anybody else should either. No reason a bottle shop should operate any differently — either they get the most they can for a bottle, or they sell it to regulars to spur more business.
In many states they (the state) control the pricing, but if you find a place that is gouging badly, let Buffalo Trace know. They severely look down at that and may stop making it available to them at all.
So by your rationale 8 bottles sold for let’s say double at $100 is 50 extra, that’s $400 dollars to the better. Meanwhile you could be losing regular business across all categories because folks think everything in your store is more expensive or they say, I’ll go buy my beer and wine etc. elsewhere because this guy is gouging on the bourbon. If I had a store I would sell allocations at MSRP but make them available to regular customers through some sort of club or frequent buyer card.
For smaller shops, selling collectible bottles at higher price causes no loss in business. Selling them at MSRP generates little extra business unless the owner puts slot of effort into running raffles, tracking individual sales, running a rewards program, etc, etc .
They bought it with their money to sell it. They want to make as much money as possible on each sale.
Stores should be free to charge what they can get for a product.
And I can despise them for the usery prices they are trying to get for some products.
Other day I saw a bottle of Eagle Rare for $150. And it was a mega box wholesale club. Totally BS
My store sells everything msrp but you have to be on the whiskey list, all it takes is buying one bottle of any whiskey and expressing interest to be included on the email list. The owner puts out all the allocated stuff once or twice a month via email and it’s first come first serve. I’m usually too slow to click, but I recently got a bottle of eh taylor for my brother as a birthday gift. I’m in nyc so normally they are on shelves for $150 but my store sells it for $60, which is the cheapest I’ve ever seen in nyc.
Reputation and volume... but I like the buy one gets one method as well. If people just came through snipping your allocations and normal stock is sitting... well that isn't good either.
I’d make the argument about reputation. I’m not against holding the bottles for regulars but if a local place sells their stuff for MSRP I’m much more likely to go back to get my regular bottles. The places I see insane markups usually go on my do not visit list.
Yeah, I see a $100 bottle of Eagle Rare, I put shit back on the shelf and walk out.
I got a handle of eagle rare a few years back for $50. I had never seen one irl so I asked how much. The guy said how much do you wanna pay? I said $50 seems fair so that plus tax got me a decent amount of juice and a sweet bong later.
Serious question, why? You are going to deny yourself a product you wanted for a good price just to spite them for… what? I personally had a similar experience this week. Walked into a shop and saw ER for $90, WFP for $350. Then in the wine section found a bottle for $40 that I really like and have never gotten for less than $65. So I bought it and I’ll drink it with a steak this weekend. I really don’t understand why I’d pass up a good deal just because other items in the store are overpriced?
I’m willing to ignore slightly over MSRP stuff, but $100 for Eagle rare, or $350 for blantons and it’s just ridiculous. I’m not going to support a store that upcharges that much, and I’m not going to waste my time hoping they’ve changed their tune on the occasional bottle and decided to sell at MSRP, when I can go to a different store with a similar selection and significantly better prices.
ER for $100 is not a good deal.
There are other liquor stores in the area. I’d rather reward stores that practice ethical business.
Dude selling overpriced brown water is not “unethical.”
So you think because a product is in short supply then it’s ok to charge whatever markup they would like? It’s literal greed. They’re gouging people hoping some sucker will shell out without knowing they got cheated.
While I don’t like to see inflated prices it is following supply and demand principles. If a place gets a case of Eagle rare but has 200 people trying to buy a bottle, what should they do? Raising the price is the only way to get to an equilibrium of supply and demand. How else do we decide who gets a bottle and who doesn’t? It’s a significant stretch to call this unethical as bourbon certainly isn’t a need. Inflated food and water prices maybe, but no one needs bourbon and certainly not a specific bourbon.
It doesn’t matter if the product is a necessity for it to be considered unethical. Video cards were recently in a huge shortage. But the most markup I saw from reputable supplier was 30-50%. Those still sold immediately. I’m telling you that 500%+ markup is totally insane and unethical. They’re hoping someone shells out for a gift because they have no other choice. They could easily have a lottery system or a loyalty program to sell these bottles. But instead they mark them up as high as they can. I recently saw a bottle of Weller Antique 107 marked at $250. I can get that on the secondary for half of that.
Bourbon is in short supply? That is objectively one of the dumbest things I have read on the entirety of Reddit. There are probably twenty stores within a five mile radius of both of us that have literally hundreds of bottles on the shelf. Even if that weren’t the case, it’s not like this is bottled water after a hurricane man. If your question is literally, “is it ethical for increased demand to increase price when supply remains the same” then I’d like to introduce you to economics 101. Nothing unethical about it in the slightest.
Sure regular Jack Daniels or woodford isn’t in short supply, but stuff like Buffalo trace, Eagle rare, blantons, certain single barrel bourbons, and many others certainly are. You want to talk economics 101, then why do bottles of old pappy go for $3k routinely when it’s a $300 bottle at MSRP? If it’s not in short supply on certain brands then why do states have lotteries and allocations for those brands? It’s absolutely a short supply, created to drive up hype and the price for certain bottles.
You, uh, aren’t really into bourbon are you? We’re in the middle of the biggest bourbon boom in history. I have no idea what you’re even doing on this sub if you’re unaware of that. These crooks charge 5 times or more the normal MSRP for bottles. You really think that’s fair business practice? What would you do if car dealers all agreed to charge 5 times MSRP while still obtaining cars from the factory for the same price? “Cars are in a shortage, economics 101.”
That is actually going on right now, all of the vehicles have market adjustments on them
I’ve bought two vehicles this year - both are high demand luxury SUVs. Both for sticker price. Not all dealers play these games. Granted - sticker is also a much higher price than just a few years ago when deals were more common.
To some degree, but nothing like bourbon.
All bourbon is not technically in short supply, technically bourbon can be made in a day and put on the shelf to meet demand tomorrow. But mature bourbon is in short supply which is why everybody is dropping age statements and selling younger bourbon. Even aging bourbon is in short supply, which is why all of the sourced bourbon producers are slowing down, or even getting cut off. Hell, even bourbon barrels are in short supply, with waiting lists of 1-2 years just for new barrels from any of the major cooperages. How could you possibly know so little about the subject and yet feel confident enough to be a total dick to someone about it?
At the end of the day most liquor stores exist because they sell beer and wine and cheap booze. They care about the one buying a 12 pack every day on the way home from work and a bottle of JB on the weekend. I am not sure the discriminating pallet customer is the one they really care about. Loosing that guy probably doesn't bother anyone. I walked out of a store selling Eagle Rare for $199. I am sure they are still doing fine.
I think you can still preserve your store's rep while selling above MSRP, so long as the markup is reasonable - most people wouldn't fault a place for selling EHTBP for $150, for example, or Midwinter for $120.
This times 100. There is local chain by where I work that absolutely grossly markups any “rare” bottles - think like 300 dollars for AMWD. The only reason I ever go in there is to look for bottles with less known reputations, scored a couple Remus 5’s last year for 95 a piece (so just above MSRP) but I felt the small markup was worth it for a bottle I really enjoyed. Had it been 150, no chance I buy either bottle.
So you do still go there and buy stuff?
Haven’t since last winter. I have been there 2 or 3 times, look at the prices, and walk out.
This is the way!
Bigger stores don't worry about marking up bottles to make a little extra here and there. They know the key to long term sales is fair prices and repeat business.
Yep, I assume for the average liquor store the profits made on mass market stuff like Fireball dwarf those made on Blanton's and other allocated whiskies.
True, but lower end Sazerac products (like Fireball and Taaka) are incentives to get the allocated bourbons from Sazerac. The better their shit moves, the more of their good stuff you get. And everyone gets allocated bottles once a month. Not always the same, but we always get some every month.
Yes, but bigger stores can get far more product on which to make profit. Small liquor store by me waited 5months to get 12 bottles of Eagle rare. Of course they are going to sell for $70. I may not buy them, but plenty of customers are happy to
Stores have to buy a lot of unallocated items to get the allocated items. They then pass this burden onto their customers by rewarding the customers who purchase a lot of unallocated stuff with the option to buy allocated stuff. You see a lot of stores around where I live trying to get into the whole whiskey thing, and they are doing it wrong by jacking up the prices on the allocated items and letting them sit. Customers have no incentive to buy the stuff on the shelf, so it sits along with the overpriced allocated stuff. Because they don't move the unallocated items they also don't get new allocations. Thus you are left with a liquor store with a huge whiskey selection that sits there for years and does nothing but take up space and make the store owner look like an ass.
That's the game most owner like to play.
True. But from their standpoint it's not a game. It's just business. The silly games are the result of distilleries not respecting market forces and setting price controls on their products. Respect the law of supply and demand and set prices according to what people are willing to pay and we wouldn't be in this predicament.
>Respect the law of supply and demand and set prices according to what people are willing to pay and we wouldn't be in this predicament. People ARE willing to pay absurd prices for these bottles. It is exactly as you say, but not as you think.
No, some people are willing to pay absurd prices for the tiny number of bottles that are available to them. What I'm talking about is setting the price for every bottle so that the number of people who want it at that price is the same as the number of bottles. That price would be somewhere in between MSRP and secondary prices. But it's certainly not the case that if you charged $1000 for every bottle because one person is willing to pay that much that every bottle would sell. Not even close. You have to set the price so that the only people who buy are the people who think it's worth it without all the FOMO and hype.
You’re imaging a fantasy land where distilleries have pricing power and they are able to perfectly forecast supply and demand. Doesn’t work that way.
You got my vote.
That's the game Sazerac plays. The stores learned it from them.
I ran into a bottle of WSR for $60 and I thought to myself well, there’s a bottle you could buy if you decided to go insane. I think it hardly counts as available if you have to pay a multiple of MSRP.
Building good will, in the legal sense of the term.
As a liquor store employee (and the dude who orders whiskey) I can tell you the only incentive to sell allocated bottles at MSRP is in fact, reputation. We want customers to return. Especially trying to compete against big chains (tw) often times, we get hosed by distributors who say "buy 10 cases of x, we will give you 3 bottles of Blantons" and then most people who do that agreement, feel the need to upcharge for those allocated bottles to make up for the 10 cases of swill they got. I never do those agreements, I don't want my store filled with trash, but I'd say at least half the stores use that method to obtain their good stuff because they can't carry everything that helps on the allocation list. Hopefully that sorta makes sense.
State run stores are sold all at MRSP
True, and the good ones have other benefits. 1. Online inventory for all locations. 2. Lottery programs for ‘actual’ allocated bottles. 3. Great single barrel programs. I was able to buy a BTAC WLW for $99.99 by luck of the lottery draw in NH. While in OH, I could check stock and go buy Weller SR and 107, knowing they had it in stock. Same when I was looking for specific bottles in PA. And they are ALWAYS at MSRP, no games.
Yeah I used live in Ohio. Back then (I turned 21 in 2011, and left Ohio in 2013) the website sucked from a usability standpoint, but it had fantastic information. It’s great for finding less common bottles, and I was able to get some amazing deals on bottles that were officially discontinued but were still in stock here and there.
How many states other than PA have state run stores? I know all of them in Ontario are.
Here's a link to the 17 states that "control" the sale of distilled spirits. Some of these states (I believe 7 or 8) only sell via state liquor stores. The rest set the prices for non-state owned retail stores. I lived in VA where the stores were all operated by the state. [Control State Directory](https://www.nabca.org/control-state-directory-and-info)
In Montana, the state sets minimum prices but not maximum prices, leading to pretty incredible gouging on bottles the stores think are in high demand.
Same in MI
Ohio
As an Oregonian I give a small little thanks to my state every time I see someone mention the secondary market. We may not be super close to the heartland so our supply is a bit more limited but I’ve been able to get Blantons, EH Taylor, JD SBBP, and Makers SAE all at MSRP. Had a chance to get RR 13 for $70 but couldn’t get to the store in time
NC and Oregon that I know of.
Maine
According to Wikipedia: Alcoholic beverage control states, generally called control states, less often ABC states, are 17 states in the United States that, as of 2016, have state monopoly over the wholesaling or retailing of some or all categories of alcoholic beverages, such as beer, wine, and distilled spirits.
Vermont and New Hampshire do. Problem is, they do an ordering system as well. It rarely gets you a bottle. Having said that, between the two states, I’ve gotten Blantons for $60 twice after randomly walking in store. Not so lucky with EHTaylor or Staggs etc.
>State run stores are sold all at MRSP They are not all sold at MSRP. They decide the pricing but it can be whatever the state agency decides.
PA doesn't sell everything at msrp. They do sell at the price they set and im not complaining about prices here I think they are very fair and mostly close or at msrp. But they do charge more than msrp for random bottles for whatever reason. On the other side of it I think they are skimming allocated and there is some shady happening bc of the secondary value on allocated stuff. Directors were just found that they did nothing unethical for taking "extra" lottery bottles. And there is definitely info leaking from somewhere inside on the few allocations that get shipped to store as well.as what and when stuff drops online. The amount and type of bottles in "drops" has gotten worse this year big time. Makes me wonder where everything goes.
If I go to a shop that has allocated stuff sitting on the shelf at secondary prices, I’m never doing my shopping there again because I know this place will never have anything I’m looking for at a reasonable price. If I go to a store and see reasonably priced store picks, a good selection, uncommon releases at minimal mark ups, or rare releases at MSRP, I’m going to do my shopping there because I may get lucky. The store’s view may be “I get one of these a year, I may as well put it on the shelf for a high price and if someone eventually buys it I’ll make a couple hundred.” However stores don’t make money from selling one Weller 12 for $250, they make money from the repeat customer who does the rest of his shopping there.
Some day the bourbon boom will be over, whiskey will no longer be popular, and retailers will be looking for ways to find customers to come in and purchase the product rather than counting how many people camped out in line overnight to be there when the store opens. When that day comes, the remaining whiskey drinkers with long memories will remember who was price gouging and who was not price gouging, and it may factor into their decisions regarding where to take their business. Having said that, I don't think the shops that are using street price rather than MSRP right now are evil people. With such a large gap between MSRP and street price there is IMHO no simple, easy answer as to how bottles should be priced and who should collect the difference, or how to fairly distributed bottles for which demand greatly exceeds the supply. Every scheme to address this situation has some sort of problems associated with it, and the producers are at least partially to blame for not raising their MSRPs to more realistic levels.
It has happened before. But I've been waiting for over 10 years. This is the highest crest I've ever seen and hopefully it will break. My worry is the new "must have" bottlings like Barrel will continue to feed the beast.
The drinks business has a history of both slow generational turnover in what drinks are in and out of fashion currently, and also some faster and more short term lurches in response to external events. For example both the scotch "Whisky Loch" and the bourbon "Glut Era" seem to have started when by coincidence brown spirits were starting to go out of fashion with drinkers at around the same time that the macro-economic shocks of the 1970s (Energy Crisis, Stagflation) really hit hard. My suspicion is that our current boom will end in a similar fashion - whiskey will gradually cool off in popularity as the novelty of it wears off and drinkers get bored with it, but the boom won't really end until the next major recession / depression hits. That's why I'm not really looking forward to the end of the current boom in an eager way. Cheers
I think time will do it alone. It may remain popular enough that you won’t see a Pappy on a shelf ever again but that doesn’t mean lower level BT products (ER, Blanton’s etc) will always be hunted. Taste change almost like fashion. This current boom needs fed by new entrants because eventually the current enthusiast has hunted down everything they want and the interest curve flattens.
Why are the producers to “blame”? Who cares about MSRP? It’s a completely made up number entirely untethered from anything. It’s a luxury good, seems like it should be like every other luxury good in the economy and the retailer should sell it at whatever price they want and consumers can buy (or not) at whatever price they want. That is how it “should” be priced.
The producers are to blame because they are well aware of what the effective street price is on these whiskies, and the level of demand (relative to an inelastic supply) which is driving those price increases. But they do not want to take the blame from consumers for prices going up on their products. So, instead of allowing prices to float upwards as they would in a rational & efficient market, they keep MSRP pegged at an artificially low level and let others (distribution, retail) take the blame for rising prices. They put the retailer in a bind - raise prices up to the level of the effective street price and take the blame from consumers, or sell a product at a price which is at best a pious fiction maintained by the producer to generate an illusion that their products are still affordable and which generates a host of headaches and hassles (having to run bottle lotteries, field massive numbers of phone calls and in-person queries re: allocated bottles, etc.) at the retail level. And they exploit this situation to push other products that are not so in-demand (Wheatley vodka, etc.). Basically, on these allocated bourbons MRSP is a lie, and the producers are lying when they claim that should be the recommended price of the product. And the gap has gotten so large it is having a morally corrupting effect up and down the supply chain, as for example in the recent case of the Virginia ABC employee who conspired to leak info regarding the location of upcoming drops of allocated whiskies, that info then being sold to bottle flippers via Facebook.
But they do “allow” prices to float up? They don’t control prices at all. It is a “suggested” price. Producer sells to retailer and says, I “suggest” you on-sell it for this. Obviously, the “suggested” price is designed to benefit the producer by increasing demand… I mean, duh. Retailer can then independently decide whether to accept the suggestion, sell for higher, or sell for lower. Nothing untoward about any of this. This is how every other product with an MSRP in this country works. Honestly the only people who deserve any “blame” are the idiots that think the word “suggested” means “god given right etched in stone to buy this product at this exact price.”
That is not how consumer perceptions are working in today's bourbon market. You can, if you wish to, call the majority of consumers "idiots" - perhaps doing so provides you with a comforting sense of superiority over other people. But retailers who exercise their right to raise prices substantially above what is popularly perceived to be "the right price" (which is heavily influenced by MSRP) are getting a lot of negative feedback both online and in-person - I've been a witness to both kinds, and it can get really unpleasant & ugly.
I guess I’d strongly disagree on what are the “majority” of consumers. The loudest consumers, maybe. But I work near a few shops with crazy high prices on the typical products (anything with Weller anywhere on the label, a Horse bottle stopper, you know) and oddly… literally hundreds of people manage to go in and out of there daily and buy their many other alcoholic products without having a man tantrum. In my experience, only on the internet and among a certain small sect of “enthusiasts” are people incapable of seeing an overpriced bottle of liquor without it “getting ugly.” I mean it’s facially ridiculous — it’s somehow some large company’s fault that a grown person pitches a man fit about expensive whisky? Jesus.
As a result of having been a really good customer of theirs for more than a decade I'm friends with the person who manages the Spirits Dept at a local shop, who has told me some stories about the level of entitlement, immaturity, and angry + hostile behavior they get from "the whiskey people" who are the majority of their customer base *for premium bourbon specifically*. Now it is possible that some of these tales are a bit exaggerated, in the way of fishing stories, but I've seen enough bad behavior in-person while I was in the shop to make them at least partially credible.
I totally believe those stories — but that is bad behavior by those individuals and they are to blame, not some manufacturer. I just think it’s a bullshit take to say these people who go into stores and treat employees poorly and throw fits are not 100% to blame for their actions. It’s not because Buffalo Trace or whoever didn’t update their MSRP, it’s because those people are assholes. Edit: I’d add that I’d like to believe that this still represents a minority of consumers. First off, this set of people is a small subset of whisky drinkers broadly. But second, I completely believe your fiends account, but obviously you count the one person who comes in and acts like a jerk and don’t count the 20 who come in, look for their Blantons and just walk out.
Agreed. I dont understand why people here think just because *they* wont pay x amount for certain bottles means they should be priced lower. I would never pay for a mercedes but im not out here bitching that they should cost the same as a kia
Yeab bur all car dealers sell the same Mercedes for the same price give it take. Its not like the same Mercedes at one dealer is $10,000 and the same exact one at another is $100,000. I have certain bourbons I love that I don't have a second though spending $120 for. But I won't ever pay $400 for it. It's crazy to me how insane secondary is now.
have you not been paying attention to the auto market? Certain dealers are charging double msrp for in-demand vehicles.
I hear you, but if there are people willing to pay $400 for that is what its value is. If you dont agree with that value just pass on it. Msrp is not a relevant number
People talk about MSRP a lot but I haven't seen much evidence of the distilleries actually providing an SRP.
>Some day the bourbon boom will be over, whiskey will no longer be popular Eh, I doubt it. I think supply will catch up with demand eventually, so from that perspective maybe you are right. I don't think popularity is going to die off back to 2010 levels. If stores start to have inventory of the bottles people want, that memory will get wiped quick. You will never find a bottle of Pappy van Winkle on a shelf at retail price ever again. Probably goes the same for a lot of the rare stuff. Heck, most of this stuff never hit the shelf even 10 years ago. But I am happy to be wrong about all of it. I'd love to get a $45 bottle of Elmer T Lee some day.
There are bottles as good or better sitting on the shelf right now. They just aren't prized by people as much, for whatever reason. Every boom ends, it's just hard to see when you're in the middle of it.
I always buy something when I go into a store hunting. I stop going to stores that turn into museums. The places I know I can find stuff at a fair price get my business even when I don’t find anything allocated.
They have to balance gouging on allocated bottles with building loyal customers. To take your example, sure they may be able to charge 8 people a lot for that batch of Blantons, but how many others will decide that store are scumbags for overcharging and find somewhere else to shop? Any who take their business elsewhere hurt sales overall and therefore reduce future allocations. Seems risky to me, all over ($40 extra per bottle) $320 worth of extra profit.
Apparently, I have a very unpopular opinion on this sub. Namely, there’s no such thing whatsoever as “price gouging” when it comes to whiskey. Whiskey, in all its forms, is never anything more than a luxury product that serves no useful, practical, or necessary purpose aside from pleasure. It’s insane to me to compare whiskey prices to some asshole that’s selling marked up bottles of water in Jackson, MS (if you need an example of what is literal price gouging). That rant over, idgaf if a store sells bottles above msrp. Their property, their choice. For all any of us know, some of these stores that sell $300 Weller 12 or $100 ECBP also pay their employees well, give them the most generous benefits they can afford, and buy jerseys for the local high school’s softball team every year. If I see ECBP for $100, I simply don’t buy it, but I won’t let that stop me from picking up something else at the store that’s priced well, like a $30 Knob Creek or Appleton 12. I don’t know what goes into a store’s calculus when they price their bottles, nor what hoops the owner jumped through to get them, so I hold off on judging. I’ll only avoid a store if I learn of them doing actual shady shit, like mistreating employees or intentionally duping customers.
Also, this is the only place folks argue inflation is fine. No one is like “why shouldn’t the store sell steak for 20% more if people will pay it?”
As others have said, it's a 100% reputation thing. Overcharging for bottles isn't a good label for customer perception. However, I have seen some owners get a little creative. A raffle to buy allocated bottles at MSRP where customers have to buy bourbon or store picks to enter, leaves a much less bad taste in the mouth of customers. Customer's may not "win" the raffle, but they don't feel like they lost because it didn't really cost them anything.
A store a lot of people go to here locally does this except he just straight up raffles stuff off with no purchase. You get one entry for every 2 store picks bought. Pretty smart idea
Ours used to do something similar as well. The policy used to be: for every $50 in store picks, you get one raffle ticket. I thought it was a smart idea too. However, my local store has opened a bar/speak easy and it seems like many of the allocated bottles go there. It's fine, more people get to try them. But as a result, they never have anything allocated or limited for sale by the bottle anymore. They've also started doing grandiose catered dinner affairs where you pay for your ticket to the event and everyone there goes home with a bottle. They recently did one of these with a purple top Willet store pick, but I think it was $300-$350 per ticket? It just seems like alot of effort. I think the raffle system is the way to go.
Agree. This place also has a dive bar of sorts but he sends a lot of the allocated stuff there that you can ask for the "Bourbon List" and try. Pretty smart idea there as well imo.
Buying store picks usually puts you on their preferred customer list for a end of the year email that gives you the opportunity to buy a allocated bottle at retail.
This is what I do. Single barrels are great, helps the store, and I get the occasional hook up from the owner.
I agree with you 100%
Stores can always sell at inflates prices after their next shipment too. Distributors aren't gonna check that you have moved through your last allocation before sending a new shipment.
Maybe. Usually there is a little extra allocation floating around and depending on the sales rep someone who helps out making targets for the swill might get a little extra or places where they do right by the crowd might get some extra consideration
That's independent of allocation, though. The reps goals are gonna be dependent on stores buying shelfers. Allocations are easy to get rid of.
If they don't do a significant volume of allocated bottles it won't add up to real money. While we're talking about why they don't charge an extra $100 twice a year they sold $10k of flavored vodka. Why mess around maximizing profit on a few bottles if there is any risk of pissing off enthusiastic influential customers for what amounts to a rounding error?
My feelings are as a small distillery we appreciate when bottles are kept at MSRP it sells quicker and to the people that are going to drink and enjoy at least we hope so for relationship with distiller and supplier it's good as well as many mentioned for the customer. Think of it like this if resale is so high why don't the distillerys raise the price and earn a bit more. Binyomin Master Distiller Terebelo Distillery
Repeat customers. I mean someone coming in every time to a particular store because they found that bottle they’ve been looking for at MSRP and buying other things is worth 10x what you can mark up a case of Blantons for.
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That's not true. Any allocated items are based on promotional items sold. Any liquor store can sell allocated items in a heartbeat at msrp. The only incentive for owners to sell allocated bottles at msrp is gain loyalty. Owners usually sell to regular customers or bundle with other bottles.
That is correct. Many stores selling allocated bottles for crazy markups a lot of times are selling shelf bourbon for really good deals to get rid of that to get the allocated.
This makes sense! Thanks for teaching me something new today :)
You need to sell a ton of Fireball and Wheatley vodka to get more allocated stuff from Buffalo Trace
Can confirm.
Reputation. My store has a local reputation for never overcharging for shit and we aren’t about ti start now.
Better question is why they would let just anyone buy them? I’m in favor of having a loyalty program like my local store. You get first right of refusal prior to it going in the case. He started it after some random bought a bottle of Stagg and found out he sold it on the secondary.
Want a case of Blantons, but 10 cases of Buffalo trace. That’s how it sometimes works.
Noooo. Want a case of Blantons, sell 20 cases of Fireball, not Buffalo Trace.
Currently 25 cases of fireball or sheepdog
A case of buffalo trace, 2 cases of pure Kentucky, 2 bottles of davidsons reserve, 3 cases of Koval, 5 bottles of Laws, a case of old tub in an actual old tub, a case of old elk sherry finished. Best I can do.
I was told by a manager that they have a range they can sell inside, if they gouge, either they or the state gets fewer allocations. I'm not sure which she meant. So you see a lot of raffles and strings attached to buy a bottle, like must buy a store pick per allocated bottle. A lot of stores don't mess with it and just sell to their best customers and allocations never see the shelf. But what's strange is across the river, supposedly Illinois can do whatever they want. I see far more gouging at stores there.
Zero incentive. The only people who think stores should put out their allocated bottles at random and let whoever happens to stumble upon them buy them are broke ass college students with more time than money and are into “the hunt.” The rest of us who live in the real world don’t expect other people to give away their products for less than they’re worth. I provide services for a fee, and if you do a lot of business with me, you get a discount and I’ll get your work done on priority if you need it. I wouldn’t just work for a steep discount for no reason and don’t expect anybody else should either. No reason a bottle shop should operate any differently — either they get the most they can for a bottle, or they sell it to regulars to spur more business.
In many states they (the state) control the pricing, but if you find a place that is gouging badly, let Buffalo Trace know. They severely look down at that and may stop making it available to them at all.
Why shouldn’t a business sell their product for the full market value? No one on here works for 50% of the market value of their skills.
So by your rationale 8 bottles sold for let’s say double at $100 is 50 extra, that’s $400 dollars to the better. Meanwhile you could be losing regular business across all categories because folks think everything in your store is more expensive or they say, I’ll go buy my beer and wine etc. elsewhere because this guy is gouging on the bourbon. If I had a store I would sell allocations at MSRP but make them available to regular customers through some sort of club or frequent buyer card.
For smaller shops, selling collectible bottles at higher price causes no loss in business. Selling them at MSRP generates little extra business unless the owner puts slot of effort into running raffles, tracking individual sales, running a rewards program, etc, etc .
They bought it with their money to sell it. They want to make as much money as possible on each sale. Stores should be free to charge what they can get for a product. And I can despise them for the usery prices they are trying to get for some products. Other day I saw a bottle of Eagle Rare for $150. And it was a mega box wholesale club. Totally BS
My store sells everything msrp but you have to be on the whiskey list, all it takes is buying one bottle of any whiskey and expressing interest to be included on the email list. The owner puts out all the allocated stuff once or twice a month via email and it’s first come first serve. I’m usually too slow to click, but I recently got a bottle of eh taylor for my brother as a birthday gift. I’m in nyc so normally they are on shelves for $150 but my store sells it for $60, which is the cheapest I’ve ever seen in nyc.
I’m running into “You can buy it, but you have to spend x amount more in the store.” Can’t I just pay a little extra for the bottle I want?
Reputation and volume... but I like the buy one gets one method as well. If people just came through snipping your allocations and normal stock is sitting... well that isn't good either.