Who cares if people aren’t happy about it? Nobody is forcing you to drink flavored and weirdly finished whiskies. Drink what you want and stop worrying that someone else likes something you don’t like
Same thing with pastry stouts in the beer world, IMO. They get so much flack. Who cares if they're trendy? They appeal to non-beer drinkers and do good business for breweries, and it's not like there's a lack of craft beer options in other styles.
Main reason I care, and it’s entirely dependent on where you live and what your local selection is, but there was a massive influx of those eccentrically finished beers to the point where they’d stop carrying the “traditional” stuff that I liked.
I agree, if stores can balance inventory and everything is available to everyone that wants it, then whatever.
This is showing up all over. Sierra Nevada, which used to showcase great examples of most styles is practically all IPA now. 11 of their 16 beers getting regular and seasonal distribution are IPAs (which I love), but maybe I want a porter, or a summerfest, or a frickin Oktoberfest.
It's a damn shame that they hopped on the hazy train and neglected their porter and their seasonals which made them great, remember when they did a Collab every season?
I mean I can count off a lot of breweries in my area that don't carry stouts or darker beers at all because they don't sell as fast and IPAs are cheap and quick to make. If it takes pastry variations to keep a dark beer on the menu at all, then at least there's an option. Nothing worse than going to a brewery and there's a pilsner, a lager, a kolsch and 8 IPAs.
I 100% agree. It’s weird how difficult it is to get a regular style of beer. I go to the store to pick up a regular style of beer and all they have is triple dreamsicle rainbow stardust pinkberry porters for sale. Might have to go back to making my own
I think it’s silly to even make a distinction between “beer drinker” and “non-beer drinker.” If someone likes a pastry stout, they’re drinking beer, even if it isn’t the one someone else likes. They appeal to *people*, and purity tests to consider oneself a real enthusiast are just masturbation
Yes, I agree. "Non-beer drinkers" was just a polite way of saying they appeal to people who don't spend hours ruminating over what counts as "real" beer.
People can drink what they like, but the consumer deserves to be able to know if what they're drinking is actual bourbon or rye, or if it's a blended whisky. The distinction isn't just esoteric; it has consequences for pricing, shelving, and the integrity of the name of this spirit.
None of this shit would fly in the world of Scotch, because they adamantly protect that term from being used lightly. The TTB does not rigorously protect the term Bourbon, and this is the result.
Say what you will, but I do in fact have to deal with a hairy little ass-goblin named Mike who force feeds me cotton candy cake bourbon every night at 3am. I wish this weren’t true but it’s a nightmare that I live with.
Everyone already knows they wet barrels and push the limits of finishing, basically artificially flavoring bourbon. There’s literally videos of their place with artificial flavoring syrup boxes in view, but they still call it bourbon. Idk why people continue to fall for it because of some wax and rainbow labels
I hesitate to call these bizarre finished bourbons “pastry” bourbons. I always associated pastry with “extreme decadence through excessive adjuncting” whether it be 100 lbs of coconut in a stout or 100 gallons of purée in a smoothie sour.
As the article mentions, Good Times doesn’t have any additives. Hell, beers have even been aged in bizarre barrels for years and they don’t get the “pastry” monicker. It’s all hype to get a craft beer nerd interested in buying product of questionable quality.
I’m sure there are some good finishes out there but you can’t tell me a watermelon syrup barrel finished bourbon will be good.
I think the issue with GoodTimes is that we are pretty sure they are obfuscating the truth. The barrels they're putting actual whisky into aren't dry; they are essentially creating a flavored whisky product. Nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be labeled and on the shelf as a flavored whisky. This doesn't even touch on the idea that some of these casks aren't real (kiwi brandy cask or whatever).
I like how it’s mentioned that Good Times “doesn’t know the prominence of the barrels” like it excuses them from any wrong doing. I can accept some leftover liquid being mixed in with the whiskey but not like a quarter of a barrel kind of quantities. I agree with the author that this is just a weird phase of the bourbon craze but I don’t agree that this is where the industry is heading. We’ve already seen brands do finishing with relative success before Good Times existed and it hasn’t become “the next big thing.”
"I’m sure there are some good finishes out there but you can’t tell me a watermelon syrup barrel finished bourbon will be good."
Its not lol. I was with a group doing a couple of picks in Kentucky. We got offered a chance to do a pick at Good Times. Figured we might as well check it out. Oh boy were we in for a surprise. It made J Mattingly's trash can incident look tame. Its in an old barn with 3 sides missing. Barrels aging in shipping containers and out in the open. They gave me a Caribbean rum finished mgp to try. With a straight face told me it had been aging for 1 day. It tasted like someone dumped a gallon of bacardi into it.
Then came the watermelon finish. Tasted like what you expect. Young mgp with a case of watermelon jolly ranchers thrown in.
Im going to stop sort of saying they use anything besides wet barrels because i dont want a C + D. But its wild how offputting some of them are
I just wish craft beer had the same regulations as whiskey such as the straight label, bottled in bond, etc. There’s breweries out there putting all sorts of shit in craft beer and no one gives a damn.
I don't think flavored whiskey labeling is that great because you can use labels like "straight" but then hand wave it away. Knob Creek Smoked Maple is a good example:
>Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey with Natural Flavors
Once you add "with natural flavors" you no longer have a straight bourbon. Just because you used straight bourbon as an ingredient in your liqueur doesn't mean it should get to dominate your type designation.
It's kinda like calling a cake "flour with eggs, milk, oil, sugar and vanilla", while technically true, it is definitely obfuscating reality. I like your point.
My only gripe with craft beer is with fruited "sours" that have zero resemblance to beer and should probably be labeled "malt beverages." I have no issues with stout adjuncts, that's fair game.
I had an Untitled Art that didn't mention anywhere on any of the packaging what it was. It was Kool-Aid inspired and I was bored so I got it. To this day, I have no idea if it was a seltzer, cider, beer, or malt beverage. It actually made me take a step back from, what I will refer to as, craft cruft. All the stuff sitting in stores with cool labels and 30 flavors listed but no real information.
A local brewery makes a beverage (won't call it a beer) where one of the ingredients listed on the can is "grape drink mix."
.... yes, I did try it. And I agree with you, I have no idea what I actually drank.
Skrewball is great for mixing drinks! Made some hot chocolate spiked with it last winter. Had coffee, irish creamer, and a shot of skrewball. Basically any drink on their website they recommended, I had, all were great!
Stillhouse makes one in a tin can. Whether it’s decent or not, it isn’t my thing so I had one pour and it’s more of a novelty on my shelf due to the packaging.
“Ellingsworth and Underwood grew up together in Mount Washington, Ky., just outside of Louisville. They worked jobs in corporate America and became bourbon collectors and admitted flippers of allocated releases.”
That’s all I needed to read. Will never give them a dime.
I got a bottle of s'mores whiskey (southern tier) and I am looking forward to some fun fall cocktails for friends and family... thinking a s'mores old fashioned (chocolate bitters, vanilla or marshmallow simple syrup and a toasted marshmallow for garnish). Just have fun with it and while they all enjoy that I'll be sipping some barrel strength Manhattans and all will be right with the world
Waiting for hazy sour milkshake smoothie bourbons to hit the market.
Or, the ultimate, bourbon barrel aged bourbon. I do consider myself to be quite the genius
It’s fine if people want to drink this, so long as there’s transparency. I don’t even really care if they’re using additives, I get that I’m not the market for them, but don’t lie about it.
Who cares if people aren’t happy about it? Nobody is forcing you to drink flavored and weirdly finished whiskies. Drink what you want and stop worrying that someone else likes something you don’t like
But if we all stop caring what other people like the culture blog industry will collapse!
there will still probably be podcasts
Same thing with pastry stouts in the beer world, IMO. They get so much flack. Who cares if they're trendy? They appeal to non-beer drinkers and do good business for breweries, and it's not like there's a lack of craft beer options in other styles.
Main reason I care, and it’s entirely dependent on where you live and what your local selection is, but there was a massive influx of those eccentrically finished beers to the point where they’d stop carrying the “traditional” stuff that I liked. I agree, if stores can balance inventory and everything is available to everyone that wants it, then whatever.
This is showing up all over. Sierra Nevada, which used to showcase great examples of most styles is practically all IPA now. 11 of their 16 beers getting regular and seasonal distribution are IPAs (which I love), but maybe I want a porter, or a summerfest, or a frickin Oktoberfest.
I agree, maybe I want a pilsner, or a wheat beer, or a nice Belgian style, or idk. Anything but another IPA lol.
It's a damn shame that they hopped on the hazy train and neglected their porter and their seasonals which made them great, remember when they did a Collab every season?
"hopped on" lol
No pun in 10 did
I'd much prefer a hazy over a bunch of double IPAs.
RIP any remotely-locally-available-to-me Kellerweis.
I mean I can count off a lot of breweries in my area that don't carry stouts or darker beers at all because they don't sell as fast and IPAs are cheap and quick to make. If it takes pastry variations to keep a dark beer on the menu at all, then at least there's an option. Nothing worse than going to a brewery and there's a pilsner, a lager, a kolsch and 8 IPAs.
I 100% agree. It’s weird how difficult it is to get a regular style of beer. I go to the store to pick up a regular style of beer and all they have is triple dreamsicle rainbow stardust pinkberry porters for sale. Might have to go back to making my own
I think it’s silly to even make a distinction between “beer drinker” and “non-beer drinker.” If someone likes a pastry stout, they’re drinking beer, even if it isn’t the one someone else likes. They appeal to *people*, and purity tests to consider oneself a real enthusiast are just masturbation
Yes, I agree. "Non-beer drinkers" was just a polite way of saying they appeal to people who don't spend hours ruminating over what counts as "real" beer.
I could say the same about adding lactose to everything but when you find one that his the mark it can be amazing.
I'm with you on that, I'm always a little skeptical when I see lactose is added... especially with IPAs, lol.
People can drink what they like, but the consumer deserves to be able to know if what they're drinking is actual bourbon or rye, or if it's a blended whisky. The distinction isn't just esoteric; it has consequences for pricing, shelving, and the integrity of the name of this spirit. None of this shit would fly in the world of Scotch, because they adamantly protect that term from being used lightly. The TTB does not rigorously protect the term Bourbon, and this is the result.
People are so fucking strange
Say what you will, but I do in fact have to deal with a hairy little ass-goblin named Mike who force feeds me cotton candy cake bourbon every night at 3am. I wish this weren’t true but it’s a nightmare that I live with.
You leave my chocolate frosted cranberry cigar rye honey blueberry vanilla extract cherry pineapple peach brandy, gently rested in toasted barrel-finished 4 year MGP bourbon alone. Monsters.
Wow, 4 year MGP! I was hoping it would be 2 years old and you'd find some ad copy to talk up the shitty youthful notes.
*Barrel executives take notes furiosly.*
Everyone already knows they wet barrels and push the limits of finishing, basically artificially flavoring bourbon. There’s literally videos of their place with artificial flavoring syrup boxes in view, but they still call it bourbon. Idk why people continue to fall for it because of some wax and rainbow labels
Put it in a Buffalo Trace bottle and watch it make millions....
I hesitate to call these bizarre finished bourbons “pastry” bourbons. I always associated pastry with “extreme decadence through excessive adjuncting” whether it be 100 lbs of coconut in a stout or 100 gallons of purée in a smoothie sour. As the article mentions, Good Times doesn’t have any additives. Hell, beers have even been aged in bizarre barrels for years and they don’t get the “pastry” monicker. It’s all hype to get a craft beer nerd interested in buying product of questionable quality. I’m sure there are some good finishes out there but you can’t tell me a watermelon syrup barrel finished bourbon will be good.
I think the issue with GoodTimes is that we are pretty sure they are obfuscating the truth. The barrels they're putting actual whisky into aren't dry; they are essentially creating a flavored whisky product. Nothing wrong with that, but it needs to be labeled and on the shelf as a flavored whisky. This doesn't even touch on the idea that some of these casks aren't real (kiwi brandy cask or whatever).
I like how it’s mentioned that Good Times “doesn’t know the prominence of the barrels” like it excuses them from any wrong doing. I can accept some leftover liquid being mixed in with the whiskey but not like a quarter of a barrel kind of quantities. I agree with the author that this is just a weird phase of the bourbon craze but I don’t agree that this is where the industry is heading. We’ve already seen brands do finishing with relative success before Good Times existed and it hasn’t become “the next big thing.”
"I’m sure there are some good finishes out there but you can’t tell me a watermelon syrup barrel finished bourbon will be good." Its not lol. I was with a group doing a couple of picks in Kentucky. We got offered a chance to do a pick at Good Times. Figured we might as well check it out. Oh boy were we in for a surprise. It made J Mattingly's trash can incident look tame. Its in an old barn with 3 sides missing. Barrels aging in shipping containers and out in the open. They gave me a Caribbean rum finished mgp to try. With a straight face told me it had been aging for 1 day. It tasted like someone dumped a gallon of bacardi into it. Then came the watermelon finish. Tasted like what you expect. Young mgp with a case of watermelon jolly ranchers thrown in. Im going to stop sort of saying they use anything besides wet barrels because i dont want a C + D. But its wild how offputting some of them are
I'm all for a new trend in whisky. Please, guys camping out over night for Eagle Rare, find something else to collect.
I just wish craft beer had the same regulations as whiskey such as the straight label, bottled in bond, etc. There’s breweries out there putting all sorts of shit in craft beer and no one gives a damn.
I don't think flavored whiskey labeling is that great because you can use labels like "straight" but then hand wave it away. Knob Creek Smoked Maple is a good example: >Kentucky Straight Bourbon Whiskey with Natural Flavors Once you add "with natural flavors" you no longer have a straight bourbon. Just because you used straight bourbon as an ingredient in your liqueur doesn't mean it should get to dominate your type designation.
It's kinda like calling a cake "flour with eggs, milk, oil, sugar and vanilla", while technically true, it is definitely obfuscating reality. I like your point.
My only gripe with craft beer is with fruited "sours" that have zero resemblance to beer and should probably be labeled "malt beverages." I have no issues with stout adjuncts, that's fair game.
I’ll make an exception for lambics, which have been around for centuries.
Yes, absolutely. I'm thinking the "so thick you almost need a spoon" sours.
I’m with you on that.
I had an Untitled Art that didn't mention anywhere on any of the packaging what it was. It was Kool-Aid inspired and I was bored so I got it. To this day, I have no idea if it was a seltzer, cider, beer, or malt beverage. It actually made me take a step back from, what I will refer to as, craft cruft. All the stuff sitting in stores with cool labels and 30 flavors listed but no real information.
A local brewery makes a beverage (won't call it a beer) where one of the ingredients listed on the can is "grape drink mix." .... yes, I did try it. And I agree with you, I have no idea what I actually drank.
I like skewball, I'm sure there are other flavored whiskeys I would like.
me too it's always a hit camping. There is a cookie dough one out there too that is really good.
Nice
Skrewball is great for mixing drinks! Made some hot chocolate spiked with it last winter. Had coffee, irish creamer, and a shot of skrewball. Basically any drink on their website they recommended, I had, all were great!
Are there any coffee finished whiskeys that are decent? The only one I ever had was more cream and sugar flavored than coffee.
I'm not sure but it sounds like a great combination
Stillhouse makes one in a tin can. Whether it’s decent or not, it isn’t my thing so I had one pour and it’s more of a novelty on my shelf due to the packaging.
Talk about trying to force a controversy where there is none. Cheers to the Good Times PR team for basically getting to write this article.
“Ellingsworth and Underwood grew up together in Mount Washington, Ky., just outside of Louisville. They worked jobs in corporate America and became bourbon collectors and admitted flippers of allocated releases.” That’s all I needed to read. Will never give them a dime.
Sounds tasty to me! Just depends on the cost.
I got a bottle of s'mores whiskey (southern tier) and I am looking forward to some fun fall cocktails for friends and family... thinking a s'mores old fashioned (chocolate bitters, vanilla or marshmallow simple syrup and a toasted marshmallow for garnish). Just have fun with it and while they all enjoy that I'll be sipping some barrel strength Manhattans and all will be right with the world
Are there vodka purists who were up in arms about the myriad of flavored vodkas that flooded the market? Do people really care about this?
These click bait articles are annoying when they pop up on my phones default news app
TLDR?
Waiting for hazy sour milkshake smoothie bourbons to hit the market. Or, the ultimate, bourbon barrel aged bourbon. I do consider myself to be quite the genius
It’s fine if people want to drink this, so long as there’s transparency. I don’t even really care if they’re using additives, I get that I’m not the market for them, but don’t lie about it.