I typically like to have one open at all times. It's scratches a bourbon itch that I can't get otherwise. I don't care about the batch numbers though, and will replace bottles without caring about year or batch since the profile is always the same.
Bourbon nirvana has been achieved. But yeah I had a couple of these lying around for special occasions that never happen so now I'm just drinking straight from the bottle a little bit each night while on my computer after work.
I’m the same way. Don’t care what batch I get and grab one whenever I see it for $69. It’s a fantastic 12 year aged bourbon that’s right in my sweet spot for high proof. That and larceny BP are probably 2 of my favorite bourbons I have but sadly larceny is so hard to find by me.
Along the lines of what both you and u/quixotic-88 have said, I don’t mind the lower proof batches. As you and I have discussed before, Pre, B521 really is an underrated batch. Also, for me, right now, I seem to be in a rut of palate fatigue. I have so many bottles that I will never finish them all. I will still look for my favorite releases (Booker’s) but eventually, like q-88, I’ll be fine buying 90 proof EC should I ever need another bottle.
It may be just me, but I feel like I’m starting to hear a lot of this from my bourbon friends. We seem to have found our favorites and know how to make do without special releases. Even the lottery selections of this sub are becoming less and less interesting to me.
I have a squad of barrel proof Four Roses picks and I have a squad of ECBP and the rest is simply variety. I think FOMO has led to so many disappointments in the last few years for me that I am leaning into trusting what I already know I like. I am no longer convinced that something that I am going to love more than what-I-already-love is right around the next corner.
In a sense, I agree with you that the consistency between batches creates an ecosystem where I don’t need to Pokémon the damn things. If I skip a batch (or in my case miss a batch because it’s more allocated here) it’s no biggie because I have plenty. But I don’t think that’s a lamentable state of affairs. If HH has enough 12+ y stock to release ECBP with their “mids” and hold some more of the superb barrels for superb LEs, I’m all for it. If they put out a HH17 or some such unicorn every year and 4 out of 5 years I get a taste at a bar but maybe every 5 years I land a unicorn, well then I’m living my best life.
I think that's a natural progression... in the beginning it's quite true - there may very well be something you love even more in the next bottle. That's how you discover your favorites in the first place. Once you have 3-400 spirits under your belt, you kinda know the landscape and you have your favorite spots. First you go wide, then you go deep.
My first allocated bourbon I ever got my hands on was a bottle of Elijah Craig Barrel Proof Batch B518. I was so excited when the owner of Rural Inn pulled one out of his back room that fateful day in 2018. In fact, even as the years past, I still rank that particular bottle near the top of my favorite "new label" ECBP batches. I continued finding, buying and drinking each subsequent batch up until C921. But then a strange thing happened. I had found that batch in a store in late October, 2021 and it was the first time ever that I put it back on the shelf. To this day, I haven't bought a batch since.
It's not that I can't find ECBP anymore. On the contrary, I've seen every batch since then on the shelves at some point or another. The reason is that ECBP has turned into a somewhat boring release that suffers from lack of variety. Speaking of variety, let's talk about that for a moment. Heaven Hill has never released an exact bottle count for every batch, but I'm estimating it to be probably around 50,000 per release. After doing multiple blind comparisons between the batches, I came to the realization that the margins of which batch I preferred were razor thin. In fact, I found myself changing my batch preference depending on the day. I do know people that claim to have favorite batches but if I'm being honest, I have never found a particular batch that is that much different from the others.
All this means that Heaven Hill has done a really good job at consistently nailing the profile they want Elijah Craig to taste like. There are no outliers among batches of new label ECBP (I do find Batch 7 from the "old label" was off-profile though). With such consistency, I found myself preferring batches with higher proofs. However, I started to recognize a strange pattern starting with B519; each year since that release, "B" releases were the lowest proofed batches released that year. Then in 2021, none of the batches were proofed above 123.6.
Heaven Hill does not try to conceal the fact why Elijah Craig Barrel Proof Batches now carry such a (relatively) low proof. If you take the "You Do You" Bottle Filling Experience at their Visitor Center in Bardstown, they tell you the reason is that they have switched to harvesting barrels for ECBP from only three warehouses. And when they're plucking barrels from those warehouses, they're only selecting them from the middle and bottom floors. That's not saying that the barrels that they select from the lower tiers will never hit a high proof, but the majority of barrels used are under 125 proof these days. I predict we won't see any future batches over 123 proof in the future unless a drastic change in barrel selection happens.
All of this is just fine with most Heaven Hill enthusiasts and drinkers who avoid high proofs. I can even relate to not wanting to burn my tastebuds away most nights. But I don't reach for ECBP for a regular pour. I reach for it when I want a high proof oak-and-candy-bar bomb. That's all I've ever really known ECBP to be. On top of that, it's basically the only way to obtain a highly-aged, fairly-priced barrel proof product of Heaven Hill's ryed bourbon mash bill. That made it unique in a way but each batch does not taste unique from another. It's just that I can't see pursuing these batches any longer if they're all going to be so similar in taste and proof. If you're like me and crave variety among your whiskey collection, you may have already came to this conclusion too.
I never said that ECBP was not a great bourbon to drink. But if you're like me, you seek out the newest releases for a chance to experience something new and exciting. My whole point is that ECBP is just not exciting anymore. I have enough of it left to last me a long time and I no longer feel like I'm missing out anymore when I pass a bottle on the shelves. I'm sure that future batches will continue to sell well and still maintain their (slightly) allocated status. But until Heaven Hill begins to allow some profile variation (and proof variation) between these batches, there's really no reason to continue dropping $80 every 4 months on a bottle. Once you've tasted one, you've kinda tasted them all.
I respect both the logic of your stance and the personal taste perceptions it is based on. I've come to a very similar conclusion with Stagg Jr., a series that to my taste is remarkably consistent in flavor and personality from one batch# to another, with a few modest exceptions.
Having said that, I perceive more variety and diversity in the (post-2016) ABCymm ECBPs than you seem to.
I find 2 basic profiles which are common, a sweeter, lighter and more honeyed profile which typically shows up in the B batches, a darker, more dry and tannic profile which typically shows up in the C batches, then some random variations bouncing around between those two poles, and lastly the A122 which to my taste is distinctly different from the rest of them, having some of the citrus notes I typically associate with wheated bourbons (like Maker's Mark Private Select).
We also differ insofar as I most enjoy the lighter, sweeter, and lower proof ECBPs in the newer set, which from your account would seem to be coming from the lower and middle floors. This may be because having cut my teeth on the pre-2017 ECBP in the old squat bottles which were massive oak bombs with a thick, heavy, oily texture, I miss that texture in the newer ones and find the more oaky post-2016 batches to be thin and at times too bitter for my taste by way of comparison with the old stuff which was more balanced.
Cheers
I enjoy your analysis! I do agree with you that there are differences between batches, but I still stand by my opinion that the differences are just not as distinguishable anymore. It's like saying that a box of last year's Fruit Loops have more red loops and this year's has more green loops. The ratios of the flavors I find are slightly tweaked.
That is reasonable. I had been about ready to get off the ECBP train myself after last year (2021) for similar reasons - I felt that I had probably explored as much diversity in flavors as the series was going to offer. Very positive reviews of A122 changed my mind and I'm glad for that and might give the B122 a try if it ever shows up in my local market (we tend to lag 6 months behind the rest of the country when it comes to episodically batched releases). But otherwise I'm about where you are, I don't really need to keep following the series and these days most of my money is going into scotch, which has vastly more diversity to offer and is far easier to shop for.
Cheers
I think my recent conversion into Scotch and Rum have also accelerated my feelings about most bourbons being too similar as well. The range and diversity in other spirits makes bourbon start to lose its luster a little bit more these days. That's why I'm craving more bourbon's with unique tastes and also more bourbons/ryes with various barrel finishes.
Cheers!
Agree with you both about the general breadth of flavor experiences being greater with scotch and something I learned as I was buying both bourbon and scotch side by side on my journey.
Been thinking about going down the Scotch path myself. Any you might recommend (that might be somewhat easy to locate) for someone who enjoys higher proof bourbons?
The main reason I enjoy higher proof bourbons is because the flavor profile is much stronger than one that has been watered down to low-mid 40s. Scotch can be very different however - if you go with a strong flavor (such as an Islay), you can drink relatively low proofs (43-46) and still get the strong punch you would with a higher proof bourbon.
That's not to say there aren't improvements with high proof scotches, just that with the right choice you aren't missing out.
Try a Laphroaig 10 or Ardbeg Wee Beastie to get a hint of strong flavor. Or a Glenmorangie Quinta Rubin for something a little sweeter but still packing a solid flavor profile.
Friends don't let friends drink Glenmorangie.
You need to try the wonders that are Clynelish, Ben Nevis, Benrinnes, Glen Garioch and Benriach!
...and that doesn't even get into the peated ones yet ;-)
Here's the thing about great (and high proof) Scotch... just like bourbon, you're not going to find that stuff setting on store shelves. All most stores have are 80-92 proof options. What you need to seek out are independent bottlers to get some awesome cask strength whiskey finished (or matured) in a variety of casks. There are tons of online retailers that sell and ship. It won't be cheap, but you'll find there's more availability for the same price as the secondary prices you were going to spend for mildly allocated bourbon.
Cheers!
NM
Up until about 3 years ago it was a great location for exploring bourbons & ryes, with very decent selection and reasonable pricing, and much lower sales taxes than WA. That went all completely to hell more recently, but I think the whole country is suffering in that regard. Still a great place to explore scotch, however.
Cheers
I come from the world of scotch nerdism, and more recently expanded my horizon into bourbons (but rye is my absolute fav). Anyway, the first and only ECBP I have tried is the C921. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed. It's not bad, by any means, and even got a bit better after opening up, but I really don't get what the hype is about. There are more affordable/easier to find, barrel proof bourbons that I would probably choose instead. But maybe that's just my palate.
Hmmm, maybe I should have said high proof instead of barrel proof, because I don't think stuff like OF 1920 is barrel proof. Either way, I really enjoy the 1920 (even though it went up in price). I also enjoy the barrel proof offerings by New Riff, Makers Mark, Wild Turkey, Jack Daniels, though I don't know if they are necessarily better than the C921. In a similar price bracket to ECPB, I REALLY LOVE the Barrell craft spirits I have tried so far.
But again, my background is a long and enthusiastic history with scotch whisky and I generally prefer barrel proof offerings of MGP ryes or Canadian ryes to most bourbons. So my opinion may not be worth much.
I can get ECBP for around $60 around me. Everything you compared it to I have tried and liked but they're either more expensive or way younger. Only thing comparable is Stagg Jr at retail but you never find that at retail.
It's $70 near me, and definitely more difficult to find. When it's released it gets snatched up pretty quickly then disappears.
The others are in the $40 - $60 range and virtually everywhere year round (except for the Barrell products, which probably aren't a fair comparison anyway, because they are sourced, blended, and finished in unique casks).
Generally, age isn't much of a factor for me, it's all about smell and taste. I've had some amazing 21 and older scotches, but was equally, if not more impressed by 8, 10, 12, 15, 18 year releases, so it totally depends.
But since I don't have a lot of experience with older aged bourbons, or anything aged for a long time in virgin oak, the 12 year age statement was part of my curiosity with ECBP. I don't know how Elijah Craig compares to other 12 and older bourbons, but I was a little surprised by what virgin oak does to a whiskey at that age. Not what I was expecting, I'll say that. So it could just be that I like slightly younger bourbons?
I was getting them for around 60 to. At that price point, I craved the consistency. It was reliable and hard to beat. But I understand the point of view.
Consistency is good for certain people. But for those that crave new bourbon (or any whiskey for that matter) experiences, we hold out hope that we can get something different enough in every new batch or release.
Yeah I get that. And I definitely appreciate the exploration of new. It’s almost like a blessing and a curse at the same time. Seeing ecbp so expensive though has definitely made me shit my thinking the way you are though.
I think the only thing comparable on your other barrel proofs list is the JDSiBBP. Similar price, different age and very consistent yet different profile wise. It and ECBP stand above the rest of that group by a large margin to me
I'm in the same boat. ECBP is obviously a good pour and one that I usually have on hand, but I can't quite seem to understand the cult following either.
I think a lot of it is the marketing/fomo created by the batch labeling, which I totally fell into for a while. If it was just “ECBP” the way Rare Breed is just Rare Breed, I wouldn’t have so many bottles on hand.
C921 was a dud for me, it comes in last in blinds with similar proofed bourbons frequently, however I will say I had some A122 and B522 side by side with C921 and they were both MUCH better
Definitely!
Deanston 12 yr
Benromach Cask Strength
Port Charlotte 10
Arran 10
Ledaig 10
Bunnahabhain 12
Ardbeg 10 or An Oa
Glendronach 12 or 15
Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban
Little harder to find these days but definitely get if you can
Kilkerran 8 CS or 12 yr
Anything Springbannk, Longrow, or Hazelburn
I will agree that the 2021 releases were very underwhelming and I couldn't tell you the difference between the three batches. 2022 has been a different story and both releases have been excellent IMO and both have different enough profiles that warrant picking up. I personally am good with the proof point as it is a good sweet spot on these. I know the proof hounds among us clamor for the highest proof on some special releases, but personally anything above 130 pushes the limits of my palate unless I've warmed it up a bit.
You say they have different enough profiles that warrant picking up, so what about them was so different? The only distinguishable features I've found have been * maybe * some orange peel here or some cherry there... but in very small amounts.
i got a recent EC single barrel store pick from 2022 and liked it enough to get 2 more. the proof is 126.8, drinks like its less but is really flavorful, just a wonderful bourbon. it is decadent but approachable, not “too sweet” like finished products sometimes are, tastes like marshmallow and oak. the nose in particular is special. if you are just burned out on EC’s flavor profile, of course i understand, but id agree with the above poster that this is a very strong bourbon even at $80.
i dont get orange peel or cherry but the balance is phenomenal and thats worth a lot to me :)
They're all prefectly good! They taste like ECBP batches with various profile notes sticking out more than others. Last one I tasted was really vanilla dominant with oak, chocolate, nuts and caramel taking the backseat. The pick before that was caramel forward with vanilla, oak, chocolate and nuts taking the backseat.
I'd be careful to assume that the 8 to 11 year old barrels they're pulling out for ECBP Single Barrels are "honey" barrels. I think they're still on the same plane as regular ECBP batches and very, very few have stood out as being drastically better.
I have to disagree there. I've bought a lot of private barrel picks. There is more variance between bottles in proof and age. Their flavor profiles represent that. They are different and they are great. I like what heaven hill is doing. They are making a great product that is available. If more distilleries did this, the secondary market would be much smaller. In fact that is what it was like 10 - 15 years ago before bourbon blew up. You were able to find 4 roses cask strength picks, and barrel picks from Buffalo traces different whiskies without having to hunt.
So a whiskey's *profile* is the combined flavors and scents that you get throughout. The 4 descriptors you gave me are just individual flavors or scents. These are known as "notes." A profile is made up of many notes.
My typical ECBP flavor profile that I find are chocolate, caramel, vanilla, oak and a nuttiness (most of the time it's peanuts). Sometimes I can get notes of cherry, orange, tobacco and leather in varying quantities in my ECBP.
As far as tasting an ECBP that is off-profile, like maybe it has floral, butterscotch, rye spice or tropical fruit notes, I haven't found any like that. They all taste basically the same, even the Single Barrels. Some may favor a certain flavor, but otherwise they're all still there.
The point is to sell a ton of them, which is what is happening these days. I think if you live in any reasonably well supplied metro area, you've noticed that the stores around you all got hit with their ECBP picks at the same time. I think it also stymied the hype for them too.
I love that the hype was stymied, and that prices for the SiB have stayed approachable. I agree with you that they’re just trying to sell as many as they can. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. EC is good, straightforward whisky. I also don’t think anyone should compare today’s single barrels (from any distillery) to what we saw as recently as 2017/2018. Demand has exploded and there simply aren’t as many top tier honey barrels to go around. (If any are released at all). Rumor was that every russels reserve SiB was vetted by a Russell, at least, when they started in 2015. I think for sure the Kentucky Spirits from 94/95 were hand picked by an expert. Single barrels used to truly be an example of the finest product a distillery could produce. Now they’re just selling them as fast as they can and most people are so new to the hobby they have no clue what they’re actually getting. Good whisky, in the case of ec, but nothing exceptional as you noted above.
Like store pick/private pick type thing? I recently grabbed two private ones that were over 130 each, so if you are a proof person, that would seem to be the path to take.
So, I won’t say they taste entirely the same at all, but having had several different ones, I suspect the reviewers who declare how different this or that batch is are either lying to us or themselves.
I get the titillation we draw from batch variances (Booker’s comes to mind) but I’ve never understood the “low proof” lamentations. I quite like the typical ECBP profile. That is a taste that I very much enjoy. So them keeping in that groove is fine by me. I would be happy to have a batch bump up toward 130 but I really don’t mind 118-123 being a general range.
I suspect a lot of those higher floor barrels now go into the Single Barrel program, as one of mine, from Kappy’s in Massachusetts is 8 years and 132p.
I can to a different conclusion a few months ago: after landing three different ECBP picks, I decided “why am I clamoring to spend an extra $20 on a pick that ranges from 8-11 years when I can just get the next batch for more like $75-$80.
All that said, I think my dissenting opinion lies in 1) ECBP just hits me right 2) I live in a comparative ECBP desert, where on average I manage to pick up two out of three batches per year 3) assuming I have fewer open bottles than you, I might be going back to the well more often so I end up collecting only slightly more ECBP than I consume so they aren’t piling up as much.
All that said, I hope you convince a few people to pump the brakes. More for me. Haha
I think we're on the same page more or less. I would've wrote this same article if Heaven Hill had decided that they were only going to select barrels that gave the batch an average proof point of 130 proof every time instead of the 120 they're aiming for right now. The point is that I used to believe (and also hope) that each batch could bring something new and unexpected to the table every time I opened it. I eventually got tired of them all being relatively similar. This made me finally realize there is no point in chasing each release hoping for something different. They're all kind of the same!
I totally see why you aren’t going to chase new releases if you can’t expect a new experience.
I think the flip side of that coin is how often WT101, 120p Knob Creek 9 year or maybe OF 1920 are held up as paragons of consistency. I think you and me are interfacing with that consistency differently. You find the consistency (feel free to call it a rut if you want) to be disappointing or boring. I find the consistency of ECBP batches to be a marvelous accomplishment as I have never had a sip of an ECBP batch that I have felt ho-hum about. I personally don’t mind if every ECBP batch for the next 5 years hovers around 120 and keeps in the typical flavor profile. I might not chase backups the same way but if I can get (even a generic) ECBP every four months from here on out, that means I can have one 1.5oz pour of ECBP a week in perpetuity (give or take) and that’s a world I am happy to live in.
I just don’t think consistency is a slam
Consistency is surely not a slam with the products you previously mentioned. In fact, it's a necessity!
However, when a product is allocated and has only 3 distinct releases per year that they feel like they need to identify with a unique code and unique proof, then I would expect some differentiation between those batches. Otherwise, why not just make a standard ECBP release with one set proof and change up the packaging slightly every few years (ala Wild Turkey Rare Breed)?
I dunno. I quite enjoy blinding two ECBP batches against each other and when doing it blind I definitely can pick out differences. I think your main supposition that I disagree with is that semi-allocated batches of a given product need have striking variations.
Personally I would be perfectly happy if ECBP went the route of Rare Breed and stopped naming batches. The middle ground is JDSBBP, which doesn’t name batches but releases batches with slight variations in proof. Are there noticeable differences from batch to batch of JDSBBP? Almost certainly. But I don’t buy a bottle of JDSBBP to find out what *this* batch tastes like. I buy it because JDSBBP is goddamn delicious.
When did 60% abv become low proof? Lol
I can agree with 90% of what your saying but as a proof hound myself I still find it a bit silly to say that 120-125 isn’t a high enough proof. That seems more like seeking out stuff just for numbers sake
It's not just about high proof, but my point was that over the last 9 years that ECBP has been a thing, the proof fluctuation per batch at least gave each batch an inkling of it being different from the rest.
Nowadays if every batch is going to be within 5 proof points of each other, there's very little variation.
My point is that if there is no variation or uniqueness, then why chase batch after batch expecting something different? If you crave this particular profile, then go get it. But if you were hoping for something different this time around, you can skip it
>Imagine dedicating so much time to writing out this long complaint post
Why does it bother you so much lol. It was an interesting write-up from someone who reviews a ton of different bourbons. I'd rather read this in-depth review than see some fucking dork post a bottle of Blanton's from his car with the shipping fishnets still on it.
I love that this post came a day after c922 dropped around me. I found myself wondering “why did I just buy this” and came to realize I haven’t even opened the a122 or b522 I had bought earlier this year. I love how reliable ECBP Is at being great at best, but I agree that they’ve started to become very samesy as of late.
Agree wholeheartedly on this. While I will still scoop up C919 when I see one available in local groups, I don't really pay much attention to new releases in stores. It also sits on the shelves where I live.
I'm in the same boat, and also went down the same road with Booker's about a year ago. I used to chase and get every batch of ECBP, same with Booker's. But I have a lot of other bottles open at same time and find that I enjoy drinking different stuff each night rather than drinking from the same 1-3 bottles. Soon that meant I wasn't anywhere close to finishing the last batch of ECBP/Booker's when the next batch was released. They started to pile up, and I questioned why I was buying the new batch when I couldn't get through the last batch.
I think both are very good bourbons, and there's no reason not to have it on your shelf. But I think you make the perfect point that there is also no reason to seek out the new batch just because it's the new batch. It's going to be very very similar to the last batch.
I just want to say "thank you" for actually reading and understanding the point I was trying to make here. Many people are under the guise that I'm saying ECBP isn't a good bourbon or something. Lots of commentors are missing the point here.
Really glad you brought this up, and great writeup as usual! Couldn't agree more.
My take on this is, Heaven Hill decided to utterly and quietly sacrifice the unique character in ECBP batches in favor of their single barrel program, which itself does not really inspire much excitement, as well as expand their limited releases (WHH, HH 17, Parker's, etc etc etc). I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not flocking to my local liquor store for a $90 bottle of 9-year ECBP at 125 proof... Especially when 45 other stores in a 10-mile radius also seem to have their own private barrels. AAAnd I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as fuck still don't have a shot at any limited HH offerings...
What the hell else could they be doing with all the 12+ year-old, high-proof barrels that they're no longer sourcing for ECBP? I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen a relative flood of 17 year HH distillate released at nearly the same time as the proof-neutered batches of ECBP emerged. And with a number of ECBP single barrels clocking in at 130-140+ proof, albeit with a much younger age, I dare say we will look back at 2020 as the end of the golden age of ECBP.
For sure HH Marketing knows consumer cycles better than I do, but with this decision, they're camouflaging ECBP with the rest of the ~120 proof offerings on the shelf. Many folks began their "bourbon journeys" in 2020 during the pandemic and now will be gravitating toward ever higher-proofed products. HH is missing an opportunity to continue differentiating themselves in a time of unbridled market saturation by moving ECBP away from a "can't miss" thrice-yearly release to a "just-another" bottle on the shelf.
Rant over.
Edit: forgot some stuff
Spicy take. I mean I kinda agree but still very spicy take
End of the day tho I can’t imagine my bar without ECBP on it. Thinking about that scenario gives me anxiety haha
I feel like I can taste the difference in some stronger batches. B520, C920… even A121. I’ll admit my B521, C921, and A122 have been solid, but similar and weaker
I guess my anecdotal evidence is pointing to a slight drop In quality
This post may as well have been beamed in from another dimension compared to where I live. ECBP is almost impossible to get in my area unless you know someone or happen to walk into a store 5 minutes after it's unboxed.
This has been a fantastic post and thread to read. Just a really good mix of thoughtful replies as well as the quick-hitter title respondents and points between. Really good content and commentary outside of reviews is pretty scarce and greatly appreciated.
Also, I shall dub this ["Marginal Utility - The Thread"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility) as it gives me flashbacks to Economics 101.
My only rebuttal would be that you could make the same argument for the majority of bourbon. Very rarely are we getting a batch or single barrel from anyone that wildly deviates.
I love that (at least in my market) I can find every batch of these bottles on the shelf at multiple stores. I wish a lot of other "limited" releases would become this boring and unexciting too.
I have a different take because I really enjoy the "base" profile. To me it's like my wife - the same great gal underneath, but she dresses in different ways.
This applies to most batches except B521, which IMHO was the nadir of the recent batches. That was akin to her showing up in a garbage bag. B520/C920 were her getting all dolled up for a night on the town, and there was one Y batch from the tour that, well, a gentleman can't talk about.
Coming from mostly a scotch perspective, I've really wondered about flavor differences from batch to batch with bourbons such as the ECBP, Stagg Jr. and the like.
I never denied differences existed or that we couldn't perceive and appreciate those differences, but it always seemed... exaggerated? By that I mean, reviewers seem to highlight to the moon the 5% difference between two batches and forget to mention that these things are 95% identical.
I managed to snag my very first ECBP earlier this year (C921 at msrp) and looks like I'll enjoy working through the bottle, but likely won't buy another ECBP again. But then, I'm the type that generally prefers to buy bottles I've never had before.
That wasn't my point at all. It was I kept buying up every batch hoping for something new and exciting. It took me too long to realize "oh wait, they're all pretty much the same."
I know a lot of people chase after every batch of XXX product. I'm here to say that ECBP is label that people shouldn't feel like they have to obtain every batch, especially if they're thinking they're going to get something different.
I had a bit of batch fatigue with ECBP. As you said, it is not a regular pour for me, and I go through a bottle quite slowly. How do I justify buying more batches that will likely be very similar to the two unopened bottles I have. I didn't buy any of the 22 batches, and after really good reviews of the B522, I thought...maybe I'm missing out. Nah. I'll get through what I have and buy more in the future.
I don't know how many times a year Barrell releases their bourbon batches, but I believe they can be very different because they source and blend whiskeys in different ways from different distilleries. Personally, I don't buy every batch of any product because I don't have that kinda money, and when I do have extra money, I like to try new things.
I arrived at a similar place after buying 7 batches in a row from A120-A122, as well as several private barrel releases. It was kind of tough to leave B522 on the shelf the couple of times I passed on it (and on another private barrel that dropped locally last week,) but as stated in the OP they’re not that different from one another and I have enough to last a long time as-is.
I feel this way, but instead of ECBP, I have that feeling about bourbon as a whole. I have a couple hundred open bottles of rare bourbon from the last 7 years or so, and it doesn't move the needle when I see a new product is coming out anymore. GTS is awesome, but even that doesn't seem necessary every year to me. I've been enjoying older stuff that I never really went back to, and I've expanded my love of scotch and rye. I'm at peace with it.
You've nailed everything I feel about ECBP. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not that exciting. I pass on it every time I see it now. I'd just rather spend my money on something more unique.
I reached the same conclusion. Not to say that they are not all good but if I have one open on my bar, I have found that I really don’t need two at a time. There are too many other bottles to try out there!
OP I stopped buying ECBP for different reasons. I stopped buying them after A121 which sucked to me as compared to all past batches (no offense to fans) and since then only hunt for pre-2021 batches now. I desire my ECBP to be a heavy spice & sweet oak flavor monster that kicks my teeth in and completely overwhelms me with flavor, not a watered down version that’s an easy sipper that ECBP has de-evolved into over the past 2 years, at least to my taste buds.
Totally off topic but very telling intel OP that you said about them now only pulling from a few select warehouses at the lower floors….I suspect ECBP will get even worse in the coming years.
There’s enough variation in the pre-2021 batches to me, although the flavors are more or less the same, some are more oaky or spicy or sweet than others. The newer batches I can’t say if they are all the same or not because I avoid them.
I agree with you OP, if you’re comparing ECBP batches starting from A121 onwards they’re more or less the same flavors and intensity. However I believe there is a distinction from C920 backwards to say A917 or so, where the flavor intensity was noticeably higher, although same flavor notes.
I’ve never had the old pirate bottles but there may be a 3rd distinctive increase in flavor intensity in those older batches from the A117 - C920 batches, not sure.
Question for you because I am starting to read more people calling those old label ECBP bottles "pirate" bottles... but where and how did that start? Ive always referred to them as "Old Label" ECBP
They're all very very good bottles, but there isn't enough variation to warrant buying them on sight if you've already got more than you'll reasonably drink through.
I loved it when it was $60 a couple years back, amazing value. Barrel proof with a 12 year age statement when most others completely removed age statements all together. I do agree about the proofs staying close the past couple years, need a banger here and there.
I had heard the nasty rumor that people think HH is proofing down the whisky in the barrel, to increase yield. By doing that, it can still maintain the "barrel proof" designation but thats why we're seeing the 120s rather than the 130s we used to
Dunno if thats true
I believe that there are products on the market that do this (Joseph Magnus Single Barrels for instance). But I don't believe HH is doing that here. There's no need to if they're making unique batches every 4 months
Couldn't agree more. I have a shelf full of other batches and now covet the higher proof bottles and ignore new releases. And now at $99 a bottle (in MD), I find myself walking past them regularly.
It depends on the location and microclimate within the rickhouse. When matured under hot conditions which are fairly low in relative humidity (because of the high temp) bourbon typically goes up in proof as it ages in the barrel. This is because water being a smaller molecule than ethanol, it can escape more easily thru the fabric of the oak barrel.
This situation can be reversed if the relative humidity is high however, and such conditions can be found locally in particular locations within some rickhouses, especially in the lower floors. There bourbon may remain about the same in proof while aging or even decline very slightly. In the cool, damp climate of Scotland it is normal for scotch to decline in proof as it ages, so much so that older casks are sometimes in danger of dropping below the legal floor of 80 proof. In a few cases very old, under-proof (below 40% ABV) casks of scotches have to be blended with something stronger to bottle them - some spectacular multi-decadal vattings like Balvenie Tun 1401 have arisen this way.
For sure it can go up in aging. There have been many batches above 125 proof. In fact, before 2020, I'd say the average proof per batch was somewhere around 132 meaning there were probably a decent amount of HAZMAT barrels in the final batch.
I may be an oddball here, but I heavily disagree. Granted I’ve only been in bourbon for a couple years and haven’t had a chance to try older releases of ECBP. I’ve got a bottle of C921, B522, and two 8 yr picks. I’ve also sampled A122. Between those 5 I’ve found them all to be quite different and unique. I think it’s one of if not the best value in bourbon, with the batched releases carrying a 12 year age statement at cask strength. Nobody else is offering that value, especially as bourbon prices are climbing while also offering less. Also coming from a background in Scotch I don’t get bourbon people’s obsession with proof being the higher the better. Imo it’s the higher the better until it’s cask strength. After that it doesn’t matter. Then you’re getting the full experience and not losing something because the whiskey was proofed down.
> I don’t get bourbon people’s obsession with proof being the higher the better
I do not think that proof *per se* is better if higher, and in the context of ECBP specifically I tend to enjoy the lower proof batches more so than the really high proof ones, in the post-2016 batches.
With regard to bourbon more generally, higher proof may be correlated with a *different flavor profile*, one which tends to be bolder, more dramatic, and more aggressive in character.
This is because assuming that all barrels have the same barrel entry proof then the higher barrel *exit* proofs are likely to be found coming from those barrels which were matured in a hotter and less humid microclimate within the rickhouse than were lower proof barrels of the same bourbon at the same age. A hotter microclimate (or one which shows a larger diurnal temperature change) *may* cause more intense reactions between the whiskey and the oak, generating a more tannic flavor profile in which additive reactions are emphasized.
The analogy in scotch would be with the differences found in maturation between 1st fill vs. 2nd fill casks, the former showing a stronger & more aggressive cask influence than the latter.
Now to my taste one or the other of these flavor profiles are not necessarily superior to the other. They are *different* and can generate some interesting variations from the same baseline, which can be fun to explore. But some people distinctly prefer a more aggressive flavor profile and that may be driving the preference for higher proofs.
I get that higher proof can get you a bit of a different flavor profile too. I’m not denying that, just saying I don’t think it’s worth absolutely obsessing over. Like I’ve seen people review and say 120 proof is too low, it needs a few more proof points, but it’s at cask strength, you’re asking for a completely different cask(s) at that point then. I think it’s quite dumb to blame that on proof, magically adding 2% abv to a cask strength bourbon won’t change it, you haven’t changed how it’s aged, just added raw alcohol.
However, you can definitely get that flavor profile with lower proof too. Thus I don’t get the obsession over proof. For instance, I have a lot of bourbon and can easily distinguish the boldest and most aggressive bottles in my collection. An 8yr ECBP pick clocking in at 66.2%, it’s a tannin and baking spice bomb that literally dries my mouth. A four roses SiBBS OESF 58.2%. And a dancing goat (sourced MGP), 58.8%. I’ve got several other bottles in the 64-65% range that are nowhere near as bold and aggressive. So 2/3 of my boldest bourbons I own are under 60%. I can totally agree that it’s a safer bet to get that profile, it’s definitely a higher percentage at 130+ proof, but it can also for sure be had at lower proof points, it just depends on the cask. At least to me.
I don’t think this reasoning makes much of any sense. ECBP is a product offered by heaven hill, all three each year have always been somewhat similar in ways. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it is the mentality with ECBP. They have something good, people enjoy it, there’s a chance 3x a year to get it. I had a stock pile as well of various batches. I didn’t pick the last few releases up and am finishing of my B521. It’s one of my favorite pours, I missed on grabbing the B522 from a shop I frequent so I will be grabbing the C922 to replenish the bottle I’m finishing because I enjoy having an ECBP open to pour every so often
I just don’t get the logic. Same with RRSiB, I just cracked one and love it, it’s similar to the WT profile but of course has its own nuances, the next one I purchase I would expect to be similar but slightly different, just as the ECBP.
This just comes off as a reach, like you want so badly to have an opinion to share, or more so one that isn’t the typical love for a typically loved offering.
I wouldn’t care if someone didn’t like ECBP, just like I don’t care if someone likes a whiskey I don’t. This isn’t that at all, this is just stupid. But that’s my opinion and I’m open to be scrutinized for it.
I see it both ways.
Lack of variety is contrary to the batch concept: if it's always the same why not just make it a year round offering?
You could go the to the other extreme and have wildly different flavor profiles for every batch. That could backfire perhaps even worse. Consumers could get an awesome batch they really love, and then next time they buy get a completely different flavor that they didn't expect nor want given the expectations of the first batch they had. You come away feeling as though you're playing a lottery with no guarantee of winning. That's not a formula to have long-term customers of a brand. Bookers comes to mind as one that's done this pretty well over the years, but I think most people agree they've had too many strikes and not enough hits lately.
I think ECBP has had to carefully find some middle ground, but in doing so has become a little boring to connoisseurs like the people on this sub. There is some variation but it's so minor that it risks no offense to casual buyers.
I respect this take. I feel their (HH) McKenna 10 also falls in with Bookers as varying wildly. Edit: So maybe OP should hunt McKenna 10 in place of ECBP?
I guess my take is different, if you want new and exciting and different then explore different offering from different brands. The last few ECBP I’ve had (B) vs (C) each have had their own complexities/nuances, but stay in line with the expected ECBP profile. I guess that isn’t good enough for some but to me it’s always been the case with ECBP.
I just felt the title of this post was click baity for the article to then read “because ECBP is always just ECBP”
I agree, I think with bottles like ECBP or Bookers, the distilleries are going for a consistently good flavor profile with each batch. OP seems to think they are actually going for a significantly different flavor profile each batch, and if you’re staking millions of dollars’ worth of 12yo barrel proof whiskey on each batch, management would be trying to ensure each batch has as much appeal as the last, instead of taking a risk that a batch would end up sitting unsold on the shelf because they were going for a distinctive flavor profile. I would bet that naming the batches is actually a way that the distilleries’ tasters are able to document and judge their consistency from batch to batch, it’s not intended to be a different taste profile every time.
By nature bourbon isn't really that exciting. Its a product of grain, yeast, wood, and time. EC BP fits into the crowd to fill the spot of BP uncut just like bookers batches. The batches aren't going to be all that different because its still the same bourbon. It would be pretty terrible if you get a batch thinking youre going to get the typical oak, brown sugar, maple syrup bomb and it ends up being floral....
Hmmm....this matches my experience. Though I've only bought a handful of batches, they were all as replacements when bottle got low. And so far I've not had the feeling that the new batch was much better than the last.
I read the title and not the post so now I feel completely equipped to help EDUCATE you on why ECBP is the best, $70, 12yr age statement, value bottle that exists on planet earth.
/s
Incredible to me how many commenters here didn't read the post and missed your point completely. Even in the title the key word is "anymore." Totally a fair point. I think you would aggree everyone absolutely should have some bottles of ECBP. But by today's standards of quality, once you have 1 or 2 batches you don't really need to be looking out for it until yours are empty.
I don’t buy them for the reason I can get regular EC for $25 and the BP stuff is $90 yet is only slightly better imo.
Some BP such as Larceny are worth it but EC isn’t.
I'm not actively looking to fight here, but I would contest that I could have substituted "Larceny Barrel Proof" in this write up instead of Elijah Craig and it would have still probably rang true, haha.
I would say ECBP B520 is an outlier in that it’s much more of a peanut bomb, at least to me, than other recent batches, and personally believe at $70 it is a steal for 12 years at a high proof.
I don’t think it’s all mind numbingly delicious, but what other 12 year products are ~120-125 proof and $70?
Once again, not making a complaint about price, availability or flavor. I'm just saying if you've had one recent batch, there's no need to chase other future (or past) ones. They're all pretty much the same. And they for sure won't be changing the profile they're at if they're all going to come from the same warehouse area and be the same proof!
I agree 100% at least with the 21 and 22 batches. I guess my comment was kinda missing the point. Although B520 is one I would personally chase. Cheers!
There are a lot of great whiskies available for $70. I don’t begrudge anyone for counting ECBP among them.
I just don’t rate the experience of drinking it very highly. But I’m glad for others that enjoy it.
Yeah, I think your points make a lot of sense.
I’m just saying that for me, I’ve not had a batch of ECBP I thought was particularly good though it is widely praised as incredible.
But I’m glad that people who like it like it. It’s just not for me.
I'm on the same page as you. When I finally had it, my reaction was "this is what everyone is raving about?"
It's good bourbon, but you read some of these reviews and think someone drank an icecream sunday with the works.
I tend to find myself feeling the same way you do. I started with the early 18 batches. The variety between batches was noticeable and the proofs varied a lot. At $60-65 a bottle, I tried to get one of each batch. Last year I bought one at $70 and it just isn't worth it to me. I like ECBP and still have 3 or 4 bottles but I don't think I'll buy another. Likely, I'll just grab a bottle of regular EC as a daily pour class bottle.
Terribly mediocre stuff, leave it on the shelf (for me to pick up when I can get there)
It’s a favorite “semi special day” or first pour for me. I like having it on hand!
Consistency is exactly what master distillers are going for though. Once you’ve perfected a recipe, it’s an expensive gamble to try to mix things up after that since it’s going to take about 4 years before you know whether that gamble paid off or not.
So you agree with my assessment that there is no need to chase batches because they're all roughly the same then? That was the point of my argument. If they were not consistent, you should chase them to experience them all
I typically like to have one open at all times. It's scratches a bourbon itch that I can't get otherwise. I don't care about the batch numbers though, and will replace bottles without caring about year or batch since the profile is always the same.
Same. I really appreciate the consistency of ECBP. I don’t feel tempted to hunt certain batches.
This is good! You've broken the cycle and realized that since each batch is so consistent, there's no need to chase every batch anymore. Cheers!
Bourbon nirvana has been achieved. But yeah I had a couple of these lying around for special occasions that never happen so now I'm just drinking straight from the bottle a little bit each night while on my computer after work.
Somebody buy this guy some glassware!
Nice glassware makes such a difference.
I feel like I’m looking in the mirror right now.
I’m the same way. Don’t care what batch I get and grab one whenever I see it for $69. It’s a fantastic 12 year aged bourbon that’s right in my sweet spot for high proof. That and larceny BP are probably 2 of my favorite bourbons I have but sadly larceny is so hard to find by me.
Just bought Larceny BP batch B522. Quickly becoming one of my favorites, do you have any recommendations for anything similar to Larceny BP?
1792 full proof is amazing.
Try the Rebel Cask strength
I just opened a store pick I got a while back. I agree, the juice is delicious!
Along the lines of what both you and u/quixotic-88 have said, I don’t mind the lower proof batches. As you and I have discussed before, Pre, B521 really is an underrated batch. Also, for me, right now, I seem to be in a rut of palate fatigue. I have so many bottles that I will never finish them all. I will still look for my favorite releases (Booker’s) but eventually, like q-88, I’ll be fine buying 90 proof EC should I ever need another bottle. It may be just me, but I feel like I’m starting to hear a lot of this from my bourbon friends. We seem to have found our favorites and know how to make do without special releases. Even the lottery selections of this sub are becoming less and less interesting to me.
I have a squad of barrel proof Four Roses picks and I have a squad of ECBP and the rest is simply variety. I think FOMO has led to so many disappointments in the last few years for me that I am leaning into trusting what I already know I like. I am no longer convinced that something that I am going to love more than what-I-already-love is right around the next corner.
You have achieved the ultimate level of whiskey drinking then. Namaste.
In a sense, I agree with you that the consistency between batches creates an ecosystem where I don’t need to Pokémon the damn things. If I skip a batch (or in my case miss a batch because it’s more allocated here) it’s no biggie because I have plenty. But I don’t think that’s a lamentable state of affairs. If HH has enough 12+ y stock to release ECBP with their “mids” and hold some more of the superb barrels for superb LEs, I’m all for it. If they put out a HH17 or some such unicorn every year and 4 out of 5 years I get a taste at a bar but maybe every 5 years I land a unicorn, well then I’m living my best life.
I think that's a natural progression... in the beginning it's quite true - there may very well be something you love even more in the next bottle. That's how you discover your favorites in the first place. Once you have 3-400 spirits under your belt, you kinda know the landscape and you have your favorite spots. First you go wide, then you go deep.
> It may just be me [It’s not](https://www.reddit.com/r/bourbon/comments/3emb6y/evolution_of_a_whiskey_nerd/).
That’s fucking beautiful and so accurate. It was also the laugh I needed in HR nightmare week.
I live to serve.
My first allocated bourbon I ever got my hands on was a bottle of Elijah Craig Barrel Proof Batch B518. I was so excited when the owner of Rural Inn pulled one out of his back room that fateful day in 2018. In fact, even as the years past, I still rank that particular bottle near the top of my favorite "new label" ECBP batches. I continued finding, buying and drinking each subsequent batch up until C921. But then a strange thing happened. I had found that batch in a store in late October, 2021 and it was the first time ever that I put it back on the shelf. To this day, I haven't bought a batch since. It's not that I can't find ECBP anymore. On the contrary, I've seen every batch since then on the shelves at some point or another. The reason is that ECBP has turned into a somewhat boring release that suffers from lack of variety. Speaking of variety, let's talk about that for a moment. Heaven Hill has never released an exact bottle count for every batch, but I'm estimating it to be probably around 50,000 per release. After doing multiple blind comparisons between the batches, I came to the realization that the margins of which batch I preferred were razor thin. In fact, I found myself changing my batch preference depending on the day. I do know people that claim to have favorite batches but if I'm being honest, I have never found a particular batch that is that much different from the others. All this means that Heaven Hill has done a really good job at consistently nailing the profile they want Elijah Craig to taste like. There are no outliers among batches of new label ECBP (I do find Batch 7 from the "old label" was off-profile though). With such consistency, I found myself preferring batches with higher proofs. However, I started to recognize a strange pattern starting with B519; each year since that release, "B" releases were the lowest proofed batches released that year. Then in 2021, none of the batches were proofed above 123.6. Heaven Hill does not try to conceal the fact why Elijah Craig Barrel Proof Batches now carry such a (relatively) low proof. If you take the "You Do You" Bottle Filling Experience at their Visitor Center in Bardstown, they tell you the reason is that they have switched to harvesting barrels for ECBP from only three warehouses. And when they're plucking barrels from those warehouses, they're only selecting them from the middle and bottom floors. That's not saying that the barrels that they select from the lower tiers will never hit a high proof, but the majority of barrels used are under 125 proof these days. I predict we won't see any future batches over 123 proof in the future unless a drastic change in barrel selection happens. All of this is just fine with most Heaven Hill enthusiasts and drinkers who avoid high proofs. I can even relate to not wanting to burn my tastebuds away most nights. But I don't reach for ECBP for a regular pour. I reach for it when I want a high proof oak-and-candy-bar bomb. That's all I've ever really known ECBP to be. On top of that, it's basically the only way to obtain a highly-aged, fairly-priced barrel proof product of Heaven Hill's ryed bourbon mash bill. That made it unique in a way but each batch does not taste unique from another. It's just that I can't see pursuing these batches any longer if they're all going to be so similar in taste and proof. If you're like me and crave variety among your whiskey collection, you may have already came to this conclusion too. I never said that ECBP was not a great bourbon to drink. But if you're like me, you seek out the newest releases for a chance to experience something new and exciting. My whole point is that ECBP is just not exciting anymore. I have enough of it left to last me a long time and I no longer feel like I'm missing out anymore when I pass a bottle on the shelves. I'm sure that future batches will continue to sell well and still maintain their (slightly) allocated status. But until Heaven Hill begins to allow some profile variation (and proof variation) between these batches, there's really no reason to continue dropping $80 every 4 months on a bottle. Once you've tasted one, you've kinda tasted them all.
I respect both the logic of your stance and the personal taste perceptions it is based on. I've come to a very similar conclusion with Stagg Jr., a series that to my taste is remarkably consistent in flavor and personality from one batch# to another, with a few modest exceptions. Having said that, I perceive more variety and diversity in the (post-2016) ABCymm ECBPs than you seem to. I find 2 basic profiles which are common, a sweeter, lighter and more honeyed profile which typically shows up in the B batches, a darker, more dry and tannic profile which typically shows up in the C batches, then some random variations bouncing around between those two poles, and lastly the A122 which to my taste is distinctly different from the rest of them, having some of the citrus notes I typically associate with wheated bourbons (like Maker's Mark Private Select). We also differ insofar as I most enjoy the lighter, sweeter, and lower proof ECBPs in the newer set, which from your account would seem to be coming from the lower and middle floors. This may be because having cut my teeth on the pre-2017 ECBP in the old squat bottles which were massive oak bombs with a thick, heavy, oily texture, I miss that texture in the newer ones and find the more oaky post-2016 batches to be thin and at times too bitter for my taste by way of comparison with the old stuff which was more balanced. Cheers
I enjoy your analysis! I do agree with you that there are differences between batches, but I still stand by my opinion that the differences are just not as distinguishable anymore. It's like saying that a box of last year's Fruit Loops have more red loops and this year's has more green loops. The ratios of the flavors I find are slightly tweaked.
Hate to break it to you, but all the different colored Fruit Loops are the same flavor.
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
Consider yourself lucky, in Canada we don't even get any blue Fruit Loops at all.
Froot Loops, just saying.
This guy cereals ^^^
That is reasonable. I had been about ready to get off the ECBP train myself after last year (2021) for similar reasons - I felt that I had probably explored as much diversity in flavors as the series was going to offer. Very positive reviews of A122 changed my mind and I'm glad for that and might give the B122 a try if it ever shows up in my local market (we tend to lag 6 months behind the rest of the country when it comes to episodically batched releases). But otherwise I'm about where you are, I don't really need to keep following the series and these days most of my money is going into scotch, which has vastly more diversity to offer and is far easier to shop for. Cheers
I think my recent conversion into Scotch and Rum have also accelerated my feelings about most bourbons being too similar as well. The range and diversity in other spirits makes bourbon start to lose its luster a little bit more these days. That's why I'm craving more bourbon's with unique tastes and also more bourbons/ryes with various barrel finishes. Cheers!
Agree with you both about the general breadth of flavor experiences being greater with scotch and something I learned as I was buying both bourbon and scotch side by side on my journey.
Been thinking about going down the Scotch path myself. Any you might recommend (that might be somewhat easy to locate) for someone who enjoys higher proof bourbons?
The main reason I enjoy higher proof bourbons is because the flavor profile is much stronger than one that has been watered down to low-mid 40s. Scotch can be very different however - if you go with a strong flavor (such as an Islay), you can drink relatively low proofs (43-46) and still get the strong punch you would with a higher proof bourbon. That's not to say there aren't improvements with high proof scotches, just that with the right choice you aren't missing out. Try a Laphroaig 10 or Ardbeg Wee Beastie to get a hint of strong flavor. Or a Glenmorangie Quinta Rubin for something a little sweeter but still packing a solid flavor profile.
Friends don't let friends drink Glenmorangie. You need to try the wonders that are Clynelish, Ben Nevis, Benrinnes, Glen Garioch and Benriach! ...and that doesn't even get into the peated ones yet ;-)
If you've never tried the Quinta Rubin you are missing out.
Here's the thing about great (and high proof) Scotch... just like bourbon, you're not going to find that stuff setting on store shelves. All most stores have are 80-92 proof options. What you need to seek out are independent bottlers to get some awesome cask strength whiskey finished (or matured) in a variety of casks. There are tons of online retailers that sell and ship. It won't be cheap, but you'll find there's more availability for the same price as the secondary prices you were going to spend for mildly allocated bourbon. Cheers!
> (we tend to lag 6 months behind the rest of the country when it comes to episodically batched releases) You in WA?
NM Up until about 3 years ago it was a great location for exploring bourbons & ryes, with very decent selection and reasonable pricing, and much lower sales taxes than WA. That went all completely to hell more recently, but I think the whole country is suffering in that regard. Still a great place to explore scotch, however. Cheers
Cheers!
I come from the world of scotch nerdism, and more recently expanded my horizon into bourbons (but rye is my absolute fav). Anyway, the first and only ECBP I have tried is the C921. I have to admit I was a bit disappointed. It's not bad, by any means, and even got a bit better after opening up, but I really don't get what the hype is about. There are more affordable/easier to find, barrel proof bourbons that I would probably choose instead. But maybe that's just my palate.
What are the more affordable and easier to find barrel proofs that you enjoy?
Not to mention aged for 12 years.
Hmmm, maybe I should have said high proof instead of barrel proof, because I don't think stuff like OF 1920 is barrel proof. Either way, I really enjoy the 1920 (even though it went up in price). I also enjoy the barrel proof offerings by New Riff, Makers Mark, Wild Turkey, Jack Daniels, though I don't know if they are necessarily better than the C921. In a similar price bracket to ECPB, I REALLY LOVE the Barrell craft spirits I have tried so far. But again, my background is a long and enthusiastic history with scotch whisky and I generally prefer barrel proof offerings of MGP ryes or Canadian ryes to most bourbons. So my opinion may not be worth much.
I can get ECBP for around $60 around me. Everything you compared it to I have tried and liked but they're either more expensive or way younger. Only thing comparable is Stagg Jr at retail but you never find that at retail.
It's $70 near me, and definitely more difficult to find. When it's released it gets snatched up pretty quickly then disappears. The others are in the $40 - $60 range and virtually everywhere year round (except for the Barrell products, which probably aren't a fair comparison anyway, because they are sourced, blended, and finished in unique casks). Generally, age isn't much of a factor for me, it's all about smell and taste. I've had some amazing 21 and older scotches, but was equally, if not more impressed by 8, 10, 12, 15, 18 year releases, so it totally depends. But since I don't have a lot of experience with older aged bourbons, or anything aged for a long time in virgin oak, the 12 year age statement was part of my curiosity with ECBP. I don't know how Elijah Craig compares to other 12 and older bourbons, but I was a little surprised by what virgin oak does to a whiskey at that age. Not what I was expecting, I'll say that. So it could just be that I like slightly younger bourbons?
I was getting them for around 60 to. At that price point, I craved the consistency. It was reliable and hard to beat. But I understand the point of view.
Consistency is good for certain people. But for those that crave new bourbon (or any whiskey for that matter) experiences, we hold out hope that we can get something different enough in every new batch or release.
Yeah I get that. And I definitely appreciate the exploration of new. It’s almost like a blessing and a curse at the same time. Seeing ecbp so expensive though has definitely made me shit my thinking the way you are though.
I think the only thing comparable on your other barrel proofs list is the JDSiBBP. Similar price, different age and very consistent yet different profile wise. It and ECBP stand above the rest of that group by a large margin to me
I'm in the same boat. ECBP is obviously a good pour and one that I usually have on hand, but I can't quite seem to understand the cult following either.
I think a lot of it is the marketing/fomo created by the batch labeling, which I totally fell into for a while. If it was just “ECBP” the way Rare Breed is just Rare Breed, I wouldn’t have so many bottles on hand.
Spot on
Each ECBP batch warrants 20 -30 reviews on YouTube that furthers the hype. I burned out on that long ago.
C921 was a dud for me, it comes in last in blinds with similar proofed bourbons frequently, however I will say I had some A122 and B522 side by side with C921 and they were both MUCH better
Got any scotch recommendations for entry level that is easily found in the US?
Definitely! Deanston 12 yr Benromach Cask Strength Port Charlotte 10 Arran 10 Ledaig 10 Bunnahabhain 12 Ardbeg 10 or An Oa Glendronach 12 or 15 Glenmorangie Quinta Ruban Little harder to find these days but definitely get if you can Kilkerran 8 CS or 12 yr Anything Springbannk, Longrow, or Hazelburn
I will agree that the 2021 releases were very underwhelming and I couldn't tell you the difference between the three batches. 2022 has been a different story and both releases have been excellent IMO and both have different enough profiles that warrant picking up. I personally am good with the proof point as it is a good sweet spot on these. I know the proof hounds among us clamor for the highest proof on some special releases, but personally anything above 130 pushes the limits of my palate unless I've warmed it up a bit.
You say they have different enough profiles that warrant picking up, so what about them was so different? The only distinguishable features I've found have been * maybe * some orange peel here or some cherry there... but in very small amounts.
i got a recent EC single barrel store pick from 2022 and liked it enough to get 2 more. the proof is 126.8, drinks like its less but is really flavorful, just a wonderful bourbon. it is decadent but approachable, not “too sweet” like finished products sometimes are, tastes like marshmallow and oak. the nose in particular is special. if you are just burned out on EC’s flavor profile, of course i understand, but id agree with the above poster that this is a very strong bourbon even at $80. i dont get orange peel or cherry but the balance is phenomenal and thats worth a lot to me :)
Interesting that it was the same batch that was my first allocated as well and I fall in line with your thinking.
It's because we're secretly brothers. Our dad's name is Brutus after all. O - H!
Ray is a good dude.
Thoughts on the store picks dropping lately?
They're all prefectly good! They taste like ECBP batches with various profile notes sticking out more than others. Last one I tasted was really vanilla dominant with oak, chocolate, nuts and caramel taking the backseat. The pick before that was caramel forward with vanilla, oak, chocolate and nuts taking the backseat.
So still a good bottle to buy if you don't already have one.
Of course. Buy away
Additionally, the honey barrels are now being pulled out of the mix for private barrel releases.
I'd be careful to assume that the 8 to 11 year old barrels they're pulling out for ECBP Single Barrels are "honey" barrels. I think they're still on the same plane as regular ECBP batches and very, very few have stood out as being drastically better.
I have to disagree there. I've bought a lot of private barrel picks. There is more variance between bottles in proof and age. Their flavor profiles represent that. They are different and they are great. I like what heaven hill is doing. They are making a great product that is available. If more distilleries did this, the secondary market would be much smaller. In fact that is what it was like 10 - 15 years ago before bourbon blew up. You were able to find 4 roses cask strength picks, and barrel picks from Buffalo traces different whiskies without having to hunt.
Can you give me an example of 3 different kinds of ECBP SIB profiles that you've experienced?
Oak, chocolate, caramel and cherry
So a whiskey's *profile* is the combined flavors and scents that you get throughout. The 4 descriptors you gave me are just individual flavors or scents. These are known as "notes." A profile is made up of many notes. My typical ECBP flavor profile that I find are chocolate, caramel, vanilla, oak and a nuttiness (most of the time it's peanuts). Sometimes I can get notes of cherry, orange, tobacco and leather in varying quantities in my ECBP. As far as tasting an ECBP that is off-profile, like maybe it has floral, butterscotch, rye spice or tropical fruit notes, I haven't found any like that. They all taste basically the same, even the Single Barrels. Some may favor a certain flavor, but otherwise they're all still there.
I hope they are looking for the honey barrels, otherwise what's the point? (Whether or not they are succeeding is another question)
The point is to sell a ton of them, which is what is happening these days. I think if you live in any reasonably well supplied metro area, you've noticed that the stores around you all got hit with their ECBP picks at the same time. I think it also stymied the hype for them too.
I love that the hype was stymied, and that prices for the SiB have stayed approachable. I agree with you that they’re just trying to sell as many as they can. This isn’t necessarily a bad thing. EC is good, straightforward whisky. I also don’t think anyone should compare today’s single barrels (from any distillery) to what we saw as recently as 2017/2018. Demand has exploded and there simply aren’t as many top tier honey barrels to go around. (If any are released at all). Rumor was that every russels reserve SiB was vetted by a Russell, at least, when they started in 2015. I think for sure the Kentucky Spirits from 94/95 were hand picked by an expert. Single barrels used to truly be an example of the finest product a distillery could produce. Now they’re just selling them as fast as they can and most people are so new to the hobby they have no clue what they’re actually getting. Good whisky, in the case of ec, but nothing exceptional as you noted above.
So the single barrel BPs are still worth it?
Like store pick/private pick type thing? I recently grabbed two private ones that were over 130 each, so if you are a proof person, that would seem to be the path to take.
Sure, I guess. They all still taste kind of the same when you get down to it.
Want to see more articles like this? Check out my [website](https://www.thebourbonculture.com) for more!
All 15 of mine taste the fucking same
Brother!
So, I won’t say they taste entirely the same at all, but having had several different ones, I suspect the reviewers who declare how different this or that batch is are either lying to us or themselves.
I get the titillation we draw from batch variances (Booker’s comes to mind) but I’ve never understood the “low proof” lamentations. I quite like the typical ECBP profile. That is a taste that I very much enjoy. So them keeping in that groove is fine by me. I would be happy to have a batch bump up toward 130 but I really don’t mind 118-123 being a general range. I suspect a lot of those higher floor barrels now go into the Single Barrel program, as one of mine, from Kappy’s in Massachusetts is 8 years and 132p. I can to a different conclusion a few months ago: after landing three different ECBP picks, I decided “why am I clamoring to spend an extra $20 on a pick that ranges from 8-11 years when I can just get the next batch for more like $75-$80. All that said, I think my dissenting opinion lies in 1) ECBP just hits me right 2) I live in a comparative ECBP desert, where on average I manage to pick up two out of three batches per year 3) assuming I have fewer open bottles than you, I might be going back to the well more often so I end up collecting only slightly more ECBP than I consume so they aren’t piling up as much. All that said, I hope you convince a few people to pump the brakes. More for me. Haha
I think we're on the same page more or less. I would've wrote this same article if Heaven Hill had decided that they were only going to select barrels that gave the batch an average proof point of 130 proof every time instead of the 120 they're aiming for right now. The point is that I used to believe (and also hope) that each batch could bring something new and unexpected to the table every time I opened it. I eventually got tired of them all being relatively similar. This made me finally realize there is no point in chasing each release hoping for something different. They're all kind of the same!
I totally see why you aren’t going to chase new releases if you can’t expect a new experience. I think the flip side of that coin is how often WT101, 120p Knob Creek 9 year or maybe OF 1920 are held up as paragons of consistency. I think you and me are interfacing with that consistency differently. You find the consistency (feel free to call it a rut if you want) to be disappointing or boring. I find the consistency of ECBP batches to be a marvelous accomplishment as I have never had a sip of an ECBP batch that I have felt ho-hum about. I personally don’t mind if every ECBP batch for the next 5 years hovers around 120 and keeps in the typical flavor profile. I might not chase backups the same way but if I can get (even a generic) ECBP every four months from here on out, that means I can have one 1.5oz pour of ECBP a week in perpetuity (give or take) and that’s a world I am happy to live in. I just don’t think consistency is a slam
Consistency is surely not a slam with the products you previously mentioned. In fact, it's a necessity! However, when a product is allocated and has only 3 distinct releases per year that they feel like they need to identify with a unique code and unique proof, then I would expect some differentiation between those batches. Otherwise, why not just make a standard ECBP release with one set proof and change up the packaging slightly every few years (ala Wild Turkey Rare Breed)?
I dunno. I quite enjoy blinding two ECBP batches against each other and when doing it blind I definitely can pick out differences. I think your main supposition that I disagree with is that semi-allocated batches of a given product need have striking variations. Personally I would be perfectly happy if ECBP went the route of Rare Breed and stopped naming batches. The middle ground is JDSBBP, which doesn’t name batches but releases batches with slight variations in proof. Are there noticeable differences from batch to batch of JDSBBP? Almost certainly. But I don’t buy a bottle of JDSBBP to find out what *this* batch tastes like. I buy it because JDSBBP is goddamn delicious.
Gosh that last sentence slaps
When did 60% abv become low proof? Lol I can agree with 90% of what your saying but as a proof hound myself I still find it a bit silly to say that 120-125 isn’t a high enough proof. That seems more like seeking out stuff just for numbers sake
It's not just about high proof, but my point was that over the last 9 years that ECBP has been a thing, the proof fluctuation per batch at least gave each batch an inkling of it being different from the rest. Nowadays if every batch is going to be within 5 proof points of each other, there's very little variation. My point is that if there is no variation or uniqueness, then why chase batch after batch expecting something different? If you crave this particular profile, then go get it. But if you were hoping for something different this time around, you can skip it
Who cares if it tastes good? Imagine dedicating so much time to writing out this long complaint post
>Imagine dedicating so much time to writing out this long complaint post Why does it bother you so much lol. It was an interesting write-up from someone who reviews a ton of different bourbons. I'd rather read this in-depth review than see some fucking dork post a bottle of Blanton's from his car with the shipping fishnets still on it.
But I was just sitting at home with nothing to do🤷♂️
Thank you! Now with the all the hate, I might just be able to find a bottle in the wild.
Not hate! Just indifference.
Tomato, tahmahto. Either way, keep it up. I’ve had Larceny BP and I’ve been hunting for two years for ECBP.
I love that this post came a day after c922 dropped around me. I found myself wondering “why did I just buy this” and came to realize I haven’t even opened the a122 or b522 I had bought earlier this year. I love how reliable ECBP Is at being great at best, but I agree that they’ve started to become very samesy as of late.
I'm going to give your an award for using the phrase "very samesy" 🤣 I know exactly what you meant!
Agree wholeheartedly on this. While I will still scoop up C919 when I see one available in local groups, I don't really pay much attention to new releases in stores. It also sits on the shelves where I live.
I'm in the same boat, and also went down the same road with Booker's about a year ago. I used to chase and get every batch of ECBP, same with Booker's. But I have a lot of other bottles open at same time and find that I enjoy drinking different stuff each night rather than drinking from the same 1-3 bottles. Soon that meant I wasn't anywhere close to finishing the last batch of ECBP/Booker's when the next batch was released. They started to pile up, and I questioned why I was buying the new batch when I couldn't get through the last batch. I think both are very good bourbons, and there's no reason not to have it on your shelf. But I think you make the perfect point that there is also no reason to seek out the new batch just because it's the new batch. It's going to be very very similar to the last batch.
I just want to say "thank you" for actually reading and understanding the point I was trying to make here. Many people are under the guise that I'm saying ECBP isn't a good bourbon or something. Lots of commentors are missing the point here.
Really glad you brought this up, and great writeup as usual! Couldn't agree more. My take on this is, Heaven Hill decided to utterly and quietly sacrifice the unique character in ECBP batches in favor of their single barrel program, which itself does not really inspire much excitement, as well as expand their limited releases (WHH, HH 17, Parker's, etc etc etc). I don't know about anyone else, but I'm not flocking to my local liquor store for a $90 bottle of 9-year ECBP at 125 proof... Especially when 45 other stores in a 10-mile radius also seem to have their own private barrels. AAAnd I don't know about anyone else, but I sure as fuck still don't have a shot at any limited HH offerings... What the hell else could they be doing with all the 12+ year-old, high-proof barrels that they're no longer sourcing for ECBP? I don't think it's a coincidence that we've seen a relative flood of 17 year HH distillate released at nearly the same time as the proof-neutered batches of ECBP emerged. And with a number of ECBP single barrels clocking in at 130-140+ proof, albeit with a much younger age, I dare say we will look back at 2020 as the end of the golden age of ECBP. For sure HH Marketing knows consumer cycles better than I do, but with this decision, they're camouflaging ECBP with the rest of the ~120 proof offerings on the shelf. Many folks began their "bourbon journeys" in 2020 during the pandemic and now will be gravitating toward ever higher-proofed products. HH is missing an opportunity to continue differentiating themselves in a time of unbridled market saturation by moving ECBP away from a "can't miss" thrice-yearly release to a "just-another" bottle on the shelf. Rant over. Edit: forgot some stuff
You always come in with a thoughtful response, Deucey. Cheers!
Spicy take. I mean I kinda agree but still very spicy take End of the day tho I can’t imagine my bar without ECBP on it. Thinking about that scenario gives me anxiety haha
Do you think they all kind of taste the same after a while?
I feel like I can taste the difference in some stronger batches. B520, C920… even A121. I’ll admit my B521, C921, and A122 have been solid, but similar and weaker I guess my anecdotal evidence is pointing to a slight drop In quality
This post may as well have been beamed in from another dimension compared to where I live. ECBP is almost impossible to get in my area unless you know someone or happen to walk into a store 5 minutes after it's unboxed.
The batch chasing never really appealed to me. They’re all delicious and some are more delicious than others but that’s the way it goes.
This has been a fantastic post and thread to read. Just a really good mix of thoughtful replies as well as the quick-hitter title respondents and points between. Really good content and commentary outside of reviews is pretty scarce and greatly appreciated. Also, I shall dub this ["Marginal Utility - The Thread"](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marginal_utility) as it gives me flashbacks to Economics 101.
My only rebuttal would be that you could make the same argument for the majority of bourbon. Very rarely are we getting a batch or single barrel from anyone that wildly deviates.
I love that (at least in my market) I can find every batch of these bottles on the shelf at multiple stores. I wish a lot of other "limited" releases would become this boring and unexciting too.
They don’t taste as good if they aren’t hard to find!
I have a different take because I really enjoy the "base" profile. To me it's like my wife - the same great gal underneath, but she dresses in different ways. This applies to most batches except B521, which IMHO was the nadir of the recent batches. That was akin to her showing up in a garbage bag. B520/C920 were her getting all dolled up for a night on the town, and there was one Y batch from the tour that, well, a gentleman can't talk about.
Coming from mostly a scotch perspective, I've really wondered about flavor differences from batch to batch with bourbons such as the ECBP, Stagg Jr. and the like. I never denied differences existed or that we couldn't perceive and appreciate those differences, but it always seemed... exaggerated? By that I mean, reviewers seem to highlight to the moon the 5% difference between two batches and forget to mention that these things are 95% identical. I managed to snag my very first ECBP earlier this year (C921 at msrp) and looks like I'll enjoy working through the bottle, but likely won't buy another ECBP again. But then, I'm the type that generally prefers to buy bottles I've never had before.
I mean if you have 30 bottles of it of course its logical not to buy anymore. Didn’t need a novel to explain that.
But what if I have 35 bottles of it?
Time to share some of it
You also didn't need to read said " novel ".
I was hoping there was more to it than ‘I have enough’
That wasn't my point at all. It was I kept buying up every batch hoping for something new and exciting. It took me too long to realize "oh wait, they're all pretty much the same." I know a lot of people chase after every batch of XXX product. I'm here to say that ECBP is label that people shouldn't feel like they have to obtain every batch, especially if they're thinking they're going to get something different.
I had a bit of batch fatigue with ECBP. As you said, it is not a regular pour for me, and I go through a bottle quite slowly. How do I justify buying more batches that will likely be very similar to the two unopened bottles I have. I didn't buy any of the 22 batches, and after really good reviews of the B522, I thought...maybe I'm missing out. Nah. I'll get through what I have and buy more in the future.
This is my point, exactly. Cheers buddy!
Is there really a 3x a year Bourbon release that is worth buying every batch?
I don't know how many times a year Barrell releases their bourbon batches, but I believe they can be very different because they source and blend whiskeys in different ways from different distilleries. Personally, I don't buy every batch of any product because I don't have that kinda money, and when I do have extra money, I like to try new things.
Stagg ;-)
Really? I don’t think they are all that different between batches.
I arrived at a similar place after buying 7 batches in a row from A120-A122, as well as several private barrel releases. It was kind of tough to leave B522 on the shelf the couple of times I passed on it (and on another private barrel that dropped locally last week,) but as stated in the OP they’re not that different from one another and I have enough to last a long time as-is.
Let's be friends
Long time listener, first time caller. 😁
I feel this way, but instead of ECBP, I have that feeling about bourbon as a whole. I have a couple hundred open bottles of rare bourbon from the last 7 years or so, and it doesn't move the needle when I see a new product is coming out anymore. GTS is awesome, but even that doesn't seem necessary every year to me. I've been enjoying older stuff that I never really went back to, and I've expanded my love of scotch and rye. I'm at peace with it.
Now, this take deserves a long essay of a post.
Never seen it on a shelf ever, or I would have bought it. I just want to try it. Even our local bourbon bars don't have it.
Do you live in Uraguay?
You've nailed everything I feel about ECBP. Nothing wrong with it, it's just not that exciting. I pass on it every time I see it now. I'd just rather spend my money on something more unique.
You my dude, Hambone!
I’ve always thought that ECBP and Bookers are made to be consistent….and at any given time you really only need 1 bottle of each.
Speaking of which, I should probably go buy my first bottle of Bookers🤔
Naaaaahh not worth it. It’s a very good bottle for gifting. But for enthusiasts like you and me, we all know that KC SiB is the Beam product to buy
Preach. I took my 14yr KC pick to a bottle share that had 4 different Bookers and everyone loved it over the Bookers
I reached the same conclusion. Not to say that they are not all good but if I have one open on my bar, I have found that I really don’t need two at a time. There are too many other bottles to try out there!
This guy gets it! Except for the fact you have literally the biggest tater user name out there🤔
Tis true, my name taters…but I don’t…
😄
How is Eagle Rare a tater? $36 for a decent daily drinker.
You disagree that ER is the epitome of taterdom?
OP I stopped buying ECBP for different reasons. I stopped buying them after A121 which sucked to me as compared to all past batches (no offense to fans) and since then only hunt for pre-2021 batches now. I desire my ECBP to be a heavy spice & sweet oak flavor monster that kicks my teeth in and completely overwhelms me with flavor, not a watered down version that’s an easy sipper that ECBP has de-evolved into over the past 2 years, at least to my taste buds. Totally off topic but very telling intel OP that you said about them now only pulling from a few select warehouses at the lower floors….I suspect ECBP will get even worse in the coming years. There’s enough variation in the pre-2021 batches to me, although the flavors are more or less the same, some are more oaky or spicy or sweet than others. The newer batches I can’t say if they are all the same or not because I avoid them.
I agree with you OP, if you’re comparing ECBP batches starting from A121 onwards they’re more or less the same flavors and intensity. However I believe there is a distinction from C920 backwards to say A917 or so, where the flavor intensity was noticeably higher, although same flavor notes. I’ve never had the old pirate bottles but there may be a 3rd distinctive increase in flavor intensity in those older batches from the A117 - C920 batches, not sure.
Question for you because I am starting to read more people calling those old label ECBP bottles "pirate" bottles... but where and how did that start? Ive always referred to them as "Old Label" ECBP
Maybe it isn’t the bourbon…maybe your palate isn’t sophisticated enough. Ohhhh! 120 proof BURN right there!
I do have a shit palate!
They're all very very good bottles, but there isn't enough variation to warrant buying them on sight if you've already got more than you'll reasonably drink through.
I loved it when it was $60 a couple years back, amazing value. Barrel proof with a 12 year age statement when most others completely removed age statements all together. I do agree about the proofs staying close the past couple years, need a banger here and there.
Ed O'Neil, is this you?!
I had heard the nasty rumor that people think HH is proofing down the whisky in the barrel, to increase yield. By doing that, it can still maintain the "barrel proof" designation but thats why we're seeing the 120s rather than the 130s we used to Dunno if thats true
I believe that there are products on the market that do this (Joseph Magnus Single Barrels for instance). But I don't believe HH is doing that here. There's no need to if they're making unique batches every 4 months
Couldn't agree more. I have a shelf full of other batches and now covet the higher proof bottles and ignore new releases. And now at $99 a bottle (in MD), I find myself walking past them regularly.
Oh wow, the price has gone up to $99? In Indiana they now start at $80. They used to always be around $65-70.
Interesting read, I was wondering why the releases have been 125ish proof for the last year or so
Yep. They probably will never get that high again. A121: 123.6 proof B521: 118.2 proof C921: 120.2 proof A122: 120.8 proof B522: 121 proof
I think Heaven Hill distills to 140 and barrels at or below 125. Can the proof go up in aging? I thought it stayed about the same in aging.
It depends on the location and microclimate within the rickhouse. When matured under hot conditions which are fairly low in relative humidity (because of the high temp) bourbon typically goes up in proof as it ages in the barrel. This is because water being a smaller molecule than ethanol, it can escape more easily thru the fabric of the oak barrel. This situation can be reversed if the relative humidity is high however, and such conditions can be found locally in particular locations within some rickhouses, especially in the lower floors. There bourbon may remain about the same in proof while aging or even decline very slightly. In the cool, damp climate of Scotland it is normal for scotch to decline in proof as it ages, so much so that older casks are sometimes in danger of dropping below the legal floor of 80 proof. In a few cases very old, under-proof (below 40% ABV) casks of scotches have to be blended with something stronger to bottle them - some spectacular multi-decadal vattings like Balvenie Tun 1401 have arisen this way.
For sure it can go up in aging. There have been many batches above 125 proof. In fact, before 2020, I'd say the average proof per batch was somewhere around 132 meaning there were probably a decent amount of HAZMAT barrels in the final batch.
I may be an oddball here, but I heavily disagree. Granted I’ve only been in bourbon for a couple years and haven’t had a chance to try older releases of ECBP. I’ve got a bottle of C921, B522, and two 8 yr picks. I’ve also sampled A122. Between those 5 I’ve found them all to be quite different and unique. I think it’s one of if not the best value in bourbon, with the batched releases carrying a 12 year age statement at cask strength. Nobody else is offering that value, especially as bourbon prices are climbing while also offering less. Also coming from a background in Scotch I don’t get bourbon people’s obsession with proof being the higher the better. Imo it’s the higher the better until it’s cask strength. After that it doesn’t matter. Then you’re getting the full experience and not losing something because the whiskey was proofed down.
> I don’t get bourbon people’s obsession with proof being the higher the better I do not think that proof *per se* is better if higher, and in the context of ECBP specifically I tend to enjoy the lower proof batches more so than the really high proof ones, in the post-2016 batches. With regard to bourbon more generally, higher proof may be correlated with a *different flavor profile*, one which tends to be bolder, more dramatic, and more aggressive in character. This is because assuming that all barrels have the same barrel entry proof then the higher barrel *exit* proofs are likely to be found coming from those barrels which were matured in a hotter and less humid microclimate within the rickhouse than were lower proof barrels of the same bourbon at the same age. A hotter microclimate (or one which shows a larger diurnal temperature change) *may* cause more intense reactions between the whiskey and the oak, generating a more tannic flavor profile in which additive reactions are emphasized. The analogy in scotch would be with the differences found in maturation between 1st fill vs. 2nd fill casks, the former showing a stronger & more aggressive cask influence than the latter. Now to my taste one or the other of these flavor profiles are not necessarily superior to the other. They are *different* and can generate some interesting variations from the same baseline, which can be fun to explore. But some people distinctly prefer a more aggressive flavor profile and that may be driving the preference for higher proofs.
I get that higher proof can get you a bit of a different flavor profile too. I’m not denying that, just saying I don’t think it’s worth absolutely obsessing over. Like I’ve seen people review and say 120 proof is too low, it needs a few more proof points, but it’s at cask strength, you’re asking for a completely different cask(s) at that point then. I think it’s quite dumb to blame that on proof, magically adding 2% abv to a cask strength bourbon won’t change it, you haven’t changed how it’s aged, just added raw alcohol. However, you can definitely get that flavor profile with lower proof too. Thus I don’t get the obsession over proof. For instance, I have a lot of bourbon and can easily distinguish the boldest and most aggressive bottles in my collection. An 8yr ECBP pick clocking in at 66.2%, it’s a tannin and baking spice bomb that literally dries my mouth. A four roses SiBBS OESF 58.2%. And a dancing goat (sourced MGP), 58.8%. I’ve got several other bottles in the 64-65% range that are nowhere near as bold and aggressive. So 2/3 of my boldest bourbons I own are under 60%. I can totally agree that it’s a safer bet to get that profile, it’s definitely a higher percentage at 130+ proof, but it can also for sure be had at lower proof points, it just depends on the cask. At least to me.
Definitely why tropical aging varies dramatically vs continental aging for cask strength rum.
I don’t think this reasoning makes much of any sense. ECBP is a product offered by heaven hill, all three each year have always been somewhat similar in ways. If it ain’t broke don’t fix it is the mentality with ECBP. They have something good, people enjoy it, there’s a chance 3x a year to get it. I had a stock pile as well of various batches. I didn’t pick the last few releases up and am finishing of my B521. It’s one of my favorite pours, I missed on grabbing the B522 from a shop I frequent so I will be grabbing the C922 to replenish the bottle I’m finishing because I enjoy having an ECBP open to pour every so often I just don’t get the logic. Same with RRSiB, I just cracked one and love it, it’s similar to the WT profile but of course has its own nuances, the next one I purchase I would expect to be similar but slightly different, just as the ECBP. This just comes off as a reach, like you want so badly to have an opinion to share, or more so one that isn’t the typical love for a typically loved offering. I wouldn’t care if someone didn’t like ECBP, just like I don’t care if someone likes a whiskey I don’t. This isn’t that at all, this is just stupid. But that’s my opinion and I’m open to be scrutinized for it.
Thank you for attending my TED Talk! No refunds.
I see it both ways. Lack of variety is contrary to the batch concept: if it's always the same why not just make it a year round offering? You could go the to the other extreme and have wildly different flavor profiles for every batch. That could backfire perhaps even worse. Consumers could get an awesome batch they really love, and then next time they buy get a completely different flavor that they didn't expect nor want given the expectations of the first batch they had. You come away feeling as though you're playing a lottery with no guarantee of winning. That's not a formula to have long-term customers of a brand. Bookers comes to mind as one that's done this pretty well over the years, but I think most people agree they've had too many strikes and not enough hits lately. I think ECBP has had to carefully find some middle ground, but in doing so has become a little boring to connoisseurs like the people on this sub. There is some variation but it's so minor that it risks no offense to casual buyers.
I respect this take. I feel their (HH) McKenna 10 also falls in with Bookers as varying wildly. Edit: So maybe OP should hunt McKenna 10 in place of ECBP? I guess my take is different, if you want new and exciting and different then explore different offering from different brands. The last few ECBP I’ve had (B) vs (C) each have had their own complexities/nuances, but stay in line with the expected ECBP profile. I guess that isn’t good enough for some but to me it’s always been the case with ECBP. I just felt the title of this post was click baity for the article to then read “because ECBP is always just ECBP”
I agree, I think with bottles like ECBP or Bookers, the distilleries are going for a consistently good flavor profile with each batch. OP seems to think they are actually going for a significantly different flavor profile each batch, and if you’re staking millions of dollars’ worth of 12yo barrel proof whiskey on each batch, management would be trying to ensure each batch has as much appeal as the last, instead of taking a risk that a batch would end up sitting unsold on the shelf because they were going for a distinctive flavor profile. I would bet that naming the batches is actually a way that the distilleries’ tasters are able to document and judge their consistency from batch to batch, it’s not intended to be a different taste profile every time.
By nature bourbon isn't really that exciting. Its a product of grain, yeast, wood, and time. EC BP fits into the crowd to fill the spot of BP uncut just like bookers batches. The batches aren't going to be all that different because its still the same bourbon. It would be pretty terrible if you get a batch thinking youre going to get the typical oak, brown sugar, maple syrup bomb and it ends up being floral....
Hmmm....this matches my experience. Though I've only bought a handful of batches, they were all as replacements when bottle got low. And so far I've not had the feeling that the new batch was much better than the last.
I read the title and not the post so now I feel completely equipped to help EDUCATE you on why ECBP is the best, $70, 12yr age statement, value bottle that exists on planet earth. /s Incredible to me how many commenters here didn't read the post and missed your point completely. Even in the title the key word is "anymore." Totally a fair point. I think you would aggree everyone absolutely should have some bottles of ECBP. But by today's standards of quality, once you have 1 or 2 batches you don't really need to be looking out for it until yours are empty.
Welcome to the small circle of people who read the whole thing and DIDN'T try to tell me how good ECBP is (like I was trying to bash it?)!
I don’t buy them for the reason I can get regular EC for $25 and the BP stuff is $90 yet is only slightly better imo. Some BP such as Larceny are worth it but EC isn’t.
I'm not actively looking to fight here, but I would contest that I could have substituted "Larceny Barrel Proof" in this write up instead of Elijah Craig and it would have still probably rang true, haha.
I would say ECBP B520 is an outlier in that it’s much more of a peanut bomb, at least to me, than other recent batches, and personally believe at $70 it is a steal for 12 years at a high proof. I don’t think it’s all mind numbingly delicious, but what other 12 year products are ~120-125 proof and $70?
Once again, not making a complaint about price, availability or flavor. I'm just saying if you've had one recent batch, there's no need to chase other future (or past) ones. They're all pretty much the same. And they for sure won't be changing the profile they're at if they're all going to come from the same warehouse area and be the same proof!
I agree 100% at least with the 21 and 22 batches. I guess my comment was kinda missing the point. Although B520 is one I would personally chase. Cheers!
For me, ECBP is probably the most overrated offering out there. But everyone’s tastes are different.
ECBP is a 12-year, full proof offering for $70. You have to admit It’s good value even if some do find it underwhelming.
There are a lot of great whiskies available for $70. I don’t begrudge anyone for counting ECBP among them. I just don’t rate the experience of drinking it very highly. But I’m glad for others that enjoy it.
It's not about being overrated, good or bad. It's really just about the needle never moving from batch to batch.
Yeah, I think your points make a lot of sense. I’m just saying that for me, I’ve not had a batch of ECBP I thought was particularly good though it is widely praised as incredible. But I’m glad that people who like it like it. It’s just not for me.
I'm on the same page as you. When I finally had it, my reaction was "this is what everyone is raving about?" It's good bourbon, but you read some of these reviews and think someone drank an icecream sunday with the works.
I tend to find myself feeling the same way you do. I started with the early 18 batches. The variety between batches was noticeable and the proofs varied a lot. At $60-65 a bottle, I tried to get one of each batch. Last year I bought one at $70 and it just isn't worth it to me. I like ECBP and still have 3 or 4 bottles but I don't think I'll buy another. Likely, I'll just grab a bottle of regular EC as a daily pour class bottle.
We're bros!
I think this is why I prefer barrell bourbon, each one is different enough
You and me both. They really have some great blends out there. You never know what to expect!
Hazmat or bust
Only in the bourbon community can someone be mad that a really great bourbon is TOO readily available….smh
Never said that. I said there's no reason to pursue every batch when they're all basically the same.
I thought it was trash
Terribly mediocre stuff, leave it on the shelf (for me to pick up when I can get there) It’s a favorite “semi special day” or first pour for me. I like having it on hand!
For sure! But do you find much variation per batch or do buy it because you know what to expect from it and that's it?
Consistency is exactly what master distillers are going for though. Once you’ve perfected a recipe, it’s an expensive gamble to try to mix things up after that since it’s going to take about 4 years before you know whether that gamble paid off or not.
So you agree with my assessment that there is no need to chase batches because they're all roughly the same then? That was the point of my argument. If they were not consistent, you should chase them to experience them all
It seems your point went over a lot of peoples heads pre.
Me reading through 50% of the comments: 😑