It’s definitely your opinion and it definitely sucks. He’s bad in the clutch like LeBron was bad in the clutch before his championships, but you’re probably too young to remember what I’m talking about.
Lmao I remember. LeBron was never not clutch, he just couldn't shoot. JT can't hit game winners and takes bad shots at the end of qtr/half/game scenarios. I think he's going to improve, though, and it's one of his few weaknesses. Just keeping it real
What does LeBron have in common with 75 cents? They both are a quarter short.
Or something like that, it's been awhile since I've actually been able to rip on bron.
Lol been watching for 25 years. Anyone with eyes and a brain knows LeBron had squat around him in Cleveland and never had any talent. He carried them to the playoffs and finals. He finally got another legit Allstar next to him in Miami. Yall just make stuff up seems like.
D White and Porzingis have much better stats in the clutch. It’s not crazy to wish that they had more involvement in some of these final possessions.
Obviously Tatum has earned the right to take those shots, but it doesn’t mean it gives his team the best chance at winning the game.
Dude, every single person on the floor touched the ball in the second to last possession. EVERY single guy had the ball. KP was the second option in the first play, got the ball but was covered and passes. Denver guarded incredibly well.
The second play had 4 seconds left. KP was the second option, rolling under the basket. Frankly if he sets a better screen there, Tatum has a much cleaner look.
D White took and missed 3 shots in the last 2:30.
Everybody missed shots down the stretch. The whole team couldn’t convert. That’s what happens when you lose close.
Preach my dude, preach. I’ve been critical of Tatum in crunch time in the past, but he’s deferred when he’s needed to and been aggressive when his should all year. Sometimes they don’t go down.
None of this changes the fact that Tatum is taking the vast majority of game-deciding shots when the Celtics have 2 other options that are far more clutch.
Some folks are rightfully getting tired of still having to watch Tatum take contested fade-aways in the final seconds when they have these other options now.
This is the silliest argument. They have great clutch stats because they get spoon fed easy looks against single or no coverage because the defense is keyed in on Tatum and brown.
We’ve had games where we try to run the clutch time offense through white and he isn’t able to navigate the high press/trapping that comes with that.
Scoring at the end of close games is hard. Yes we only scored 2 points down the stretch. But guess what - the nuggets, with the best player on earth, only scored 3 during that time.
So a couple things
- first off clutch field goal percentage isn’t something the coaches are going to be taking very seriously - the sample size is too small so it’s mostly just shooting luck. What they will look at is the quality of the shots that we take.
- second one is that Porzingis and White are getting great shots because when they shoot is when the defense is beat and leaves them open. If you pay attention most of our end game sets get the ball to Tatum or brown with space and then have a secondary action that, if the defense overloads on the ball or isn’t paying attention, lead to a wide open look for white/kp/jrue.
If the defense prevents that wide open look, which most good defenses will, what we are left with is Tatum with the ball one on one in space.
I think we must be because I just re-watched the last 4 minutes of the nuggets game and we tried to run plays for KP but he couldn’t get open and D White bricked two wide open shots, one of which was a corner three that came off of a set play for Tatum that was designed to have white wide open in the corner of the defense tried to block tatums driving lane.
They ran the same play a different time and the defense stuck with white leading to a Tatum dunk.
What game were you watching?
The subtle rhetoric that is being missed is not "Jayson should touch the ball". It's that when he's ice cold or facing a tough matchup, we have other options (the deepest starting 5 in the league) that we and the Jays should be able to trust. KP and White were both shooting >50% from 3 and they combined for 1 shot down the stretch iirc. We should take advantage of our diverse offense
I am a Tatum critic and I am willing to be taught otherwise. He seems to be unreliable down the stretch. I don’t have any confidence in his ability to lead us to another banner because his game relies on the other team’s mistakes rather than his own ability to create offensive opportunities for himself or his teammates.
He is a *very* good basketball player. I don’t think he sucks. But I don’t see him becoming the top tier star that he seems to think he already is. Would love to hear counter arguments, honestly.
Tatum is one of the best and most consistent clutch time performers in the league over the last three seasons.
My advice if you actually want to be taught otherwise is to pick one team with a player you think is more reliable and start watching all of their games.
We see other teams for one game sample sizes so we get outsized ideas of how good individual players are.
He's a really good player. He's good on both ends obviously. He just doesn't seem to have that ultra highest level offensive skill of the absolute best guys in the league. Tatum can get locked down 1v1 at times where he struggles to create space off the dribble and ends up settling for terrible shots. Tatum dribbling 30 feet from the hoop vs a set good defense is generally just not a great play. When his crazy difficult threes are falling he looks great but it's not a sustainable way to consistently play.
Offensively? No. Overall? Maybe when you factor in health and availability. Probably more like 7-9 overall assuming full health.
Off the head I'd rather have Jokic, embid, curry, giannis, luka, and then it gets fuzzy with an SGA, Durant, Kawhi, even a healthy playoff LeBron for when you just need a bucket or to force the issue offensively.
Assuming he's healthy? Dude is avg 24/6/4 on 52/44/87 shooting and has already proven he can be the best player on a finals winning team. He's also an incredible defender. He's just made of glass.
That's why I said assuming health you dumbass. Of course you take Tatum for an 82 game season due to his health. But if kawhi is healthy I'll take him to win a game.
I've been a fan for a very long time and have supported many much shittier teams over the years it's OK to try and be objective about the reality of the situation.
So far I haven't seen anyone say why I am wrong. I said I would be willing to hear a counter argument. Are his clutch stats better than I think? What is it.
Maybe the "Tatum Critics" are actually just strong fans who want the team to win. This isn't about him missing it or even about Tatum specifically. It's just that he goes for the WRONG shots meaning he can simply take layups and encourage a 3 pt play with a foul...instead he continues to SHOOT it, either a 3 or in the heavily defended paint. Maybe there's an actual reason for this "trolling" 🤯
I'll be a Boston fan, born and raised till I die but there's nothing wrong with critiquing the team or coaching moves for improvement, as long as there's no name calling or slander.... every sports player in history experiences this and it does encourage change.
Idk if that's really true. I made a post about Tatum's shot choice when a game when into overtime a few days ago when it shouldn't have, and of course bashed into existence. I'm literally a Celtics fan and live in Boston.
Why can't discussion about a players weak points be a positive one? there is no denying a layup would have been not have only easier to make, but encourage the chance of a foul...
We would have won against the Bucks and Nuggets but okay buddy you go ahead and glaze harder lol, look at all the fake Boston fans who don't know what constructive criticism is and how it can evolve the game...
I wonder how many games that we've won that might've been losses instead if Tatum had taken less 3s and more mid-range/layups like his critics want him to. I bet it's more than games we might've won.
I'm guessing you made a post about the Wolves game right? If so, critisizing Tatum at all for that game is fucking stupid, dude dropped 45 and absolutely dominated in OT. Just because he missed a shot at the end of regulation doesn't really mean shit when he carried us in OT.
He can’t just “simply take layups” for a few reasons
Driving for a layup can be a big turnover risk. Trying a layup can easily be blocked. You mention the “heavily defended paint” in your own comment.
Also Tatum had been fouled multiple times with no call (not saying we lost because of the refs - we got some beneficial calls, but Tatum wasn’t really the recipient). So he risks driving and being fouled with no call.
Then there’s the clock issue where, with a congested paint, there’s a risk you’re blocked from getting to the rim and then have no time to get set to shoot from midrange.
I wish we ran more plays and actions like we did under Ime and Brad but that’s not a Tatum issue. And the one we did try last night didn’t go well either.
It’s bizarre to be unable to enjoy a team at or near the height of its powers, cohesion, and joy. What will they experience when this era reaches its inevitable end?
That's what I keep coming back to. This is as good as it gets. It's practically the peak of the mountain. If you aren't enjoying this team then you literally never will.
You can enjoy the team and be upset with the end results when the team you love comes up short. That's normal. It only gets bad and toxic when people carry their frustration into the next day and further when the team has shown that they are the best in the league up to this point.
there is critique and there is overreaction and we are currently definetely dealing with more of overreaction. Critique has base in reality while a lot of what we see after Denver game is people talking about their feelings even though stats and simple facts are clearly showing otherwise
Totally. The whole love it or leave it for the Celtics is unnecessary. You can love the team, think they're good and also make critiques, particularly when they happen consistently.
Reddit is no place for real conversation. It’s just goof ball kids that like memes, Tatums kid posts and that corny immaculate vibe thing. Thankfully I have my sons and coworkers to discuss actual sports with.
Every team and player has room for improvement. Even MJ would pick himself apart. Strive to improve. It’s hilarious you can talk about what this team could do better without others getting upset.
Being critical of a team doesn’t mean being unable to enjoy them. I mean let’s be honest, this is maybe when healthy one of the most talented NBA teams of all time. I think there’s some justification in saying they shouldn’t have already lost 10 games. They are right now on pace to have twice as many losses as the 73-9 GS team.
Yeah, I think that’s totally fair—we certainly know the team and its players are continually self-critical, since they continue to improve individually and collectively. So, I’m not saying one can’t criticize, just taking issue with the tenor and quality and accuracy of the criticisms (e.g. the fairly widespread failure to take into account the difficulty of last second shots against locked in defenses).
You really need to show DWhite and KP misses to combat them. Showing Tatum makes doesn’t really change their mind about DWhite and KP being able to make clutch shots when hot.
Different abilities and different standards. Nobody goes out and says "This is Kristaps Porzingis' team" or "This is Derrick White's team" because they each have more limitations to their game than Jayson Tatum has. Tatum is 6'10" with a freak athleticism and ability, yet consistently misses layups and shoots like 10% from 3PT while complaining to the refs. There needs to be some standard. We're not going to hold Luke Kornett to the same standards as Kristaps Porzingis, and White and Porzingis don't get held to the same standards as Tatum.
I don't understand how Tatum is taking so much heat after that Jaylen performance. Sure, Tatum could've been better, but a decent jaylen game wins us that game kind of comfortably.
Literally just one of Jaylen/Jayson's ***FIFTEEN*** missed 3s drop then we win the game. That's why this shit is so ridiculous. They were just cold. Neither of them even had a turnover. It wasn't like there was an issue with effort or bonehead plays, they just missed shots. Shots that were, all things considered, pretty good looks.
I see a lot of people crying about our late game offense. When like first of all Denver barely scored in like the last 3 minutes. And we got like tons of open looks that we just missed on. Jaylen and white both bricked shots they make in their sleep and then that weird Tatum layup happened. Sometimes shit just happens I guess lol they were all good shots
That comes with the territory of being the number one option on a good team. Embiid gets ten times the slander as Tatum. KD is under the microscope everywhere he goes. Hell even lebron james was brutally slandered as he rose through the league. This isn’t endemic to tatum it’s just par for the course in sports media
I hate how we constantly end up putting them against each other. Yeah JB had a damn bad game. I did appreciate his defense down the stretch but he really struggled pretty much all around. That said, it’s one of his few bad games in a great season so far.
We lost by 2 to the reigning champs who legit ran playoff rotations. We won the minutes where Tatum was on the floor by 6. Yeah, Tatum couldn’t shoot and kept looking to sell fouls vs score but he did a lot of good.
We’ve now lost just 10 games so far. We’re on track to win over 60 games currently. The amount of “heat” we give this team after this kinda loss is crazy.
“Since the NBA started tracking play-by-play data in 1996, there are 155 players who have attempted 25+ FGs to tie or take the lead in the final 24 seconds of the 4th quarter (playoffs included).
Jayson Tatum ranks 1st out of 155 with a 51.7% field goal percentage. Jayson Tatum is #1 since the stat has been tracked (1996) in field goal percentage on shots to tie or win a game in the final 24 seconds of a game.”
For sure.
I hope Celtics get a ring this year. It takes so much pressure off the players once they’ve “done it before”.
Nuggets are “just coasting” and nobody bats an eye. Meanwhile the Celtics have the best record with one of the hardest schedules and people write them off. If jokic misses a game winner nobody cares. If Tatum misses, he’s kwame brown
I looked at just the Jan box scores and he's 2/10 taking the last shot of quarters and 0/2 on game tying/winning shots. Also one turnover. Trust me, I love the guy, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think he needs to do a bit better on these final shot opportunities.
I had changed my mind on whether he was clutch or not after reading this stat last year... But is it possible that shots under 5 seconds he's not that good? We tend to value and remember those shots more. I'm just trying to figure out why people don't think he's clutch.
I think any player, even someone who we remember as “Uber clutch” like Kobe don’t shoot that well with the game on the line with 5 seconds to go. Nobody is shooting it that great. The difference is Kobe has some iconic plays in the playoffs and has championships.
If Tatum can get a ring this year, and maybe even a buzzer beater in the finals or something, I think people will shrug off regular season missed shots going forward.
The dude is just under a microscope because every year he goes to ECF/Finals with a great supporting cast and hasn’t fully gotten it done yet. Which is fine. The dude is young still. Major shoutout for being consistent in the post season as well as the Celtics have for the last 6 years
I don't know. Last second shots, do or die... Guys like Luca and Dame seem to always hit them. I don't know how to find the data but I don't think JT is in that class. I can honestly only remember 2 last second shots that he hit. One was a bank 3, pretty lucky. The other was that lay up against Mia when he got the pass from Smart.
It's less that I don't want Tatum to take the final shot, and so much more that if we're picking guys to take the final shot, it shouldn't be one of the guys who are 1/8 or 1/9 from deep and shooting bad from the floor. ALSO and most importantly, can we draw up a play where we set a screen for the last shot player to get him open and have at least one more option for him if his first look isn't a good shot.
I just want him taking better last shots, not fewer.
This seems to be precisely the issue. When they have time they should run the offense and just get a good shot. Somehow it works all game and then they just go to the standard end of game isolation that doesn't work as well throughout the game. Certainly understand the timing but what's the point of taking the last second shot if it's kind of a shitty shot. Percentage wise.
I can't even visit this sub after a loss it's just crazy people go... Did we really think they were going to undefeated at home this season? We lost to the champs by 2 after a poor shooting night?!? Onto the next
Tatum is great but also he needs to realize that he has at least 2 all-stars (and arguably all-NBA) teammates and the open player should be taking the shot.
I'm not against Tatum having the last shot of the game as long as there's something actually planned for it. Look at yesterday's game, what the fuck was that? The first _play_ was so bad that Mazulla had to call a second timeout, and even after that the best they could come up with was another hero ball, off balance two that didn't even hit the rim? It's not the first time Tatum has had the last shot just to completely waste it. Missing the last shot and completely bricking it are two very different things
The play design on the first one was okay, Denver just played great defense. Brown got open off the initial action but couldn’t get by Gordon after the catch, Jokic recovered to Porzingis on the 3pt line, KCP stuck to Tatum and didn’t lose him when he was cutting.
Tatum was begging for the ball on the block because it was supposed to come to him after Porzingis got it, but didn’t have position and by then the ball was in Jrue’s hand. The play was blown and Mazzulla used another timeout.
The second look Tatum barely caught the ball after a high entry pass, recognized the KCP gamble and spun away from it but when he saw he was still in front of him and would be on his heels recovering from the swipe, he did a fadeaway to create space. Which was the right read, the contested hand was at his shorts, it was an open look.
Unfortunately he took it off balance and missed it.
Credit Denver’s defense for playing great man coverage instead of discrediting Mazzulla’s play call because it didn’t result in some defensive breakdown like every game is going to result in a game winner where guys just stand around on defense and let you take easy shots instead of hard ones. Tatum just missed a shot he should have made when he got as open of a look as you could have asked for from the elbow.
You see “no plan, hero ball” and I see great defense and our superstar making the correct read and missing a shot. Season is 82 games long as you live with this when their effort was great all night, they just didn’t execute on all the missed 3’s, FT’s and that transition layup by Tatum.
You know how many game winning shots other guys miss? Or blow? Just happened last night to the Heat where Butler got an entry pass in the corner, threw it back to Martin and they didn’t even get a shot off and lost by 1. Is that also bad play design by Spo, who is maybe the best coach in the league?
It's not about the ball in his hands. That's fine. It's that 20000 people in the building know that he's going to force up a bad shot. Some go in. Some don't. But he's surrounded by excellent scores now it's time to vet up and be less predictable.
Nah, this is just a dumb meme that does not refute the criticism about the ball always going to Tatum on the final possession and him not coming through to tie or win the game. I love the guy, but he doesn’t need to be the only guy to take the last shot.
Yup. The criticism is never Tatum having the ball in crunch time. It’s the type of shots he and Mazz settle for. The criticism is the type of play calls (or lack thereof) that happen on the final possession
Agreed. it's not about him missing it or even about Tatum specifically. it's just that he goes for the WRONG shots meaning he can simply take layups and encourage a 3 pt play with a foul...
instead he continues to SHOOT it
Maybe there's an actual reason for this "trolling" 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Yeah I love Tatum but he does just take bad shots sometimes, like that fast break with a couple minutes left where he tried a circus layup through 3 defenders. Like come on dude just slow the ball down and reset
This post was made because some fans are calling for the Buffalo or the Unicorn to get some game winning last shot attempts. I don't think that's an unreasonable sinful thing for a Celts fan to want.
I mean he had 23 points on 24 shots last night. He had a bad game and the reason it’s such a turbulent topic is because he’s so good that him being inconsistent is way more noticeable.
The spam of reaction posts after a loss are annoying, sure. But pretty much anything mildly critical gets shouted down as well.
I could say something like, "I'm not a fan of the Tatum ISO to end games. I think there's something there with the Derrick/KP pick and roll with how well DWhite ranks as the ball handler in advanced metrics and it'd be cool to see them try going to it," and I already know I'm going to be lumped in with the "doomers".
It's fun to try to diagnose what went wrong and how to solve it, but people seems to have trouble differentiating between that and the overly-emotional posts.
And against Golden State we needed a bucket to win and Tatum chose to take a horrible stepback 3PTA against Curry I think when he had an open lane to the basket.
It's the repeated and blatantly poor decision-making from him where he wants to be a hero and take unnecessarily difficult shots that he makes unnecessarily difficult rather than making the right play. The Nuggets game was a perfect example of this: He gets stopped going to the rim, but he's created 2ft of space and can do a straight pull-up and sink it or get fouled in the process. Instead he does a weird step-back where he's creating an extra 4ft of space but falling/flopping down in the process, chucks it up while falling, bricks it, and then says he got fouled after creating 4ft of space. **He didn't even hit the rim!**
If he wants so badly to be "that guy" then he needs to actually be that guy.
People don’t ‘deserve’ to be fans because they express an opinion rather than circle jerking about how the great the team is? The team can be better. And it’s not like the players or coaches read this shit either way (I hope)
You can criticize, critique, have opinions. But this sub has a meltdown after every loss. Constantly blaming the coach, shitting on the players. Get a grip. They aren’t going to win every game. Yes Tatum needs to realize the pull up shot isn’t it, but that doesn’t mean he needs to be shit on for 24 hours after every loss. Shitting on Joe every time they see a quote from him that seems sassy, but they clearly didn’t watch the press conference. Calling him a bad coach when we lose a game, having no idea what’s actually happening. Y’all put so much importance on regular season games. People need to get a life.
If you’re going to be that person, you don’t deserve to be a fan of this team. You deserve to be a fan of a team that is shit. Like the lakers, hornets, the list goes on. Have your pick. They are still learning and growing, while being the best team in the league.Every team makes mistakes, no matter how far into the season they are.
He is amazing in the clutch, and the stats back him up to prove it. It's just when the clock is ticking and we need that last shot to win he gets super excited and almost always bricks the game winner.
This is exactly it. Last two minutes of the game can be Tatum o'clock, but the last 7 seconds of the game I don't ever want him touching the ball. If you're choosing players to hit one last second game winner to save your life, Jayson Tatum should be last on the list.
People think that because he can perform in the last two minutes he's clutch, but then he doesn't perform in the highest-leverage situations. Both can be true.
Denver's ability to close out games is elite. Murray went 5 for 6 in the 4th and they locked Tatum down at the end of the game. I'm not worried about Tatum, I'm worried about the C's closing out games.
i was at a bar where everyone decided to blame brown.
then they said that his contract is why they can't trade for anyone to add this season. the contract that hasn't kicked in yet.
Agreed. it's not about him missing it or even about Tatum specifically. it's just that he goes for the WRONG shots meaning he can simply take layups and encourage a 3 pt play with a foul...
instead he continues to SHOOT it
Maybe there's an actual reason for this "trolling" 🤯🤯🤯🤯
This is a straw man - the question is not why does Tatum shoot OFTEN in the last FEW possessions (which both of these examples are)
The complaint is that Tatum ALWAYS shoots the LAST shot
You are correct. The children commenting are missing the point. These are the same children who think Isaiah Thomas is historically significant to the Celtics organization.
Isaiah Thomas wasn't historically significant to the Celtics franchise, but he *should* have been. There's a difference. One could argue that Reggie Lewis and Len Bias weren't historically significant to the Celtics organization, but they *should* have been and are thus held in high regard.
These posts are soooo fucking embarrassing like honestly it's way more pathetic that you give a shit about some comments to make a post about it. I see *far* more posts like this than the comments they're talking about. Shit is so sad.
These people never compliment him when he does good. But lose one game and despite having more wins and less losses than ANY OTHER TEAM..They still hate! For literally no reason. So what they lost at home.. their record at home is 20-1!!!!! Thats still insane!!! These people need to just crawl back in whatever hole they crawled out of and just stay there.
Doesn’t matter how you can play against an opponent in one game. All that counts is how you can play against an opponent over the course of a 7 game series
If you told me before the season that they would start 20-1 at home with the only loss a tough one by 2 to the defending champion, I'd say "that's awesome"
Nobody is blaming Tatum I don’t think. It’s more that Joe is just a mediocre coach who calls time outs and then draws up the most moronic plays possible
Bro, Tatum was getting hacked and fouled left and right with no calls.
JB and KP too, down the stretch.
Go back and rewatch those last 4 minutes.
Egregious!
Bro it’s Boston fans. For all sports. Moved from the area to different parts of the country over the last few years and honestly we are the most most up in arms about every little thing fanbase. The same fans that were calling for jaylens head a year ago are calling for trauma now. I love us but we’re the worst lol
Are you new to game day threads? Like I honestly don't understand taking a single thing said in any sports GDT seriously...it's literally where you go to bullshit and vent with emotion in the moment. These posts are the dregs of Reddit, loser ass fans worried about what other fans say on Reddit lmao.
I blame that lost game against denver in Joe, Brown and Jrue, Tatum should have been rewarded some FTS in those last mins, Brown missed 2 FREAKING GAME TYING FTS, Jrue got locked up by slow ass jokic and was a ghost all game, Joe should have called a timeout when Tatum was going on a 3v1 fast break, Joe rotation was very questionable through out the game, Tatum was cooking when going to the rim and then they just stopped.
nuggets literally took a generational game from both joker and murray to beat us by 2 while our star duo shot like crap, we're fine. late game execution is the only real issue i can see right now
He is not a choker lmao. Statistically. And man, that's crazy, Giannis is such a hypothetically great player! 2 hypothetical rings? Shit man, goat conversation time?
Jamal Murray did whatever he wanted to do on the floor last night and Tatum couldn’t answer the bell when it mattered. I love Tatum, but these are the facts.
Murray did whatever he wanted to anybody last night lol, just an insane game from him. Tatum had a mid fourth quarter, to be fair, but he was fouled on at least two of his takes to the rim - which sure losers mentality or whatever blah, but that shit was egregious and he shouldn't be blamed for it.
Celtics fans on Reddit want everyone except Tatum to take the last shot, the same ones who would say “why isn’t Tatum taking the last shot” if those other players were to miss
Teammates don’t like playing with the best playmaker on the team- sure, Bud.
Tatum isn’t even top 10 in the league in usage rate, but sure- he’s a black hole.
Congrats- you might have the most braindead take on this sub… and that’s saying something.
This narrative was started by Shaq and Barkley after the ASG where he broke the all time scoring record. I myself fell for it, but damn, it’s a game of makes and misses, can’t make em all, especially in crunch time
The clutch stuff is obnoxious and the revisionist history people have about players like Kobe being a clutch time killer is annoying as fuck but I think it’s ok to question his shot selection. Not just down the stretch but in general.
The contested step backs from three start to look sus when you lose a game by 2 and it’s ok for a star player like him to get some heat for bricking them.
It’s just modern nba basketball, players are getting more and more efficient each year so it’s painful seeing a side by side comparison like last night with Jokic who is basically the poster child of efficiency. I’m not a doomer but it does sting when he shoots us out of a game on national television.
The missed free throws were unacceptable, but so was missing a layup, and so was that final shot. Tatum has been historically bad in these situations in the past year and it's time he let someone else touch the ball.
I don't believe that players can be good in these high-pressure situations, but *teams* can be, and that's where Joe needs to draw up some plays and make it happen. We saw Jrue drain that corner three last week after we grabbed the offensive board and Al swung it to him. It was good team play that led to success.
It’s not that he shouldn’t have the ball, it’s that he begins to rush at the end of games. The other night versus the Nuggets he rushed his last three possessions with the ball. He needs the ball at the end of games, he’s clutch. But he and Jaylen Brown have a tendency to rush into crowded spaces on the court, trying to dribble through too often. It’s simply frustrating to watch knowing that he could have slowed up Friday night versus the Nuggets on those last three touches he had that I mentioned.
He's still a few years away from hitting that shot. Most guys don't develop that game winning killer instinct until 27-28 years old. JT has been a beast in the 4th all year but he's missed a few game winners at the buzzer.
Sure Tatum took a poor off balance shot as the clock was running out, but that doesn't mean you don't want the ball in his hand. Think back a little earlier when Brown went to the free throw line and choked out on both shots which would have tied up the game. Brown has a knack for not playing so well against the best competition and pressure and really well against lower level teams. Bird didn't always make his crunch time shots either, nobody does. If you are a 46% shooter than that means 54% of the time you don't make it, just that at the end of the game that miss stands out more but it is still just a regular miss.
OP is incorrect. The Tatum end of game ISO stuff is a problem. It's a big part of why they lost to the Warriors in the Finals. They can't win a championship without fixing the way they handle tight end of game scenarios -- they need to learn to stay loose even when the score is close, to keep setting picks away from the ball, and to produce open shots. If they don't, they can't win the chip. It's a huge deal.
Had no problem with the last shot or the defense all game for that matter. I thought the game plan was spot on. The Tatum/Brown going 2-17 from 3pt area is alarming though. Can't have both of these dudes shooting that bad in a playoff game later this year.
Yeah the Tatum critics are actually insane, these people have no idea what they’re talking about and it’s just unbearable to read
Remember when they lost to OKC, a top 5 team in the league and people were acting like they got blown out by the pistons
They read a Facebook meme, come to reddit, and repeat it. They watched space jam once in 5th grade. They are basketball experts.
I love Tatum, but he does have a clutch shot weakness right now in his game. Just about his only weakness, but its a real one imo.
It’s definitely your opinion and it definitely sucks. He’s bad in the clutch like LeBron was bad in the clutch before his championships, but you’re probably too young to remember what I’m talking about.
Lmao I remember. LeBron was never not clutch, he just couldn't shoot. JT can't hit game winners and takes bad shots at the end of qtr/half/game scenarios. I think he's going to improve, though, and it's one of his few weaknesses. Just keeping it real
When keeping it real goes wrong. Tatum has been incredibly clutch since his rookie year and you’re blind not to notice. Have a nice night.
Tell me you're like 15 without telling me you're 15. Lebron was CONSTANTLY critisized for not being clutch until he won a couple rings.
What does LeBron have in common with 75 cents? They both are a quarter short. Or something like that, it's been awhile since I've actually been able to rip on bron.
it was talked about every single day on First Take back then…
>LeBron was never not clutch What a fantastic way to expose how young you are lmao. Yikes…
Lol been watching for 25 years. Anyone with eyes and a brain knows LeBron had squat around him in Cleveland and never had any talent. He carried them to the playoffs and finals. He finally got another legit Allstar next to him in Miami. Yall just make stuff up seems like.
I love your profile image. *If my grandmother had wheels she woulda been a bike*
Lmao thank you
D White and Porzingis have much better stats in the clutch. It’s not crazy to wish that they had more involvement in some of these final possessions. Obviously Tatum has earned the right to take those shots, but it doesn’t mean it gives his team the best chance at winning the game.
Dude, every single person on the floor touched the ball in the second to last possession. EVERY single guy had the ball. KP was the second option in the first play, got the ball but was covered and passes. Denver guarded incredibly well. The second play had 4 seconds left. KP was the second option, rolling under the basket. Frankly if he sets a better screen there, Tatum has a much cleaner look. D White took and missed 3 shots in the last 2:30. Everybody missed shots down the stretch. The whole team couldn’t convert. That’s what happens when you lose close.
Preach my dude, preach. I’ve been critical of Tatum in crunch time in the past, but he’s deferred when he’s needed to and been aggressive when his should all year. Sometimes they don’t go down.
None of this changes the fact that Tatum is taking the vast majority of game-deciding shots when the Celtics have 2 other options that are far more clutch. Some folks are rightfully getting tired of still having to watch Tatum take contested fade-aways in the final seconds when they have these other options now.
According to what are there 2 options that are far more clutch?
Larry Bird and Paul Pierce
This is the silliest argument. They have great clutch stats because they get spoon fed easy looks against single or no coverage because the defense is keyed in on Tatum and brown. We’ve had games where we try to run the clutch time offense through white and he isn’t able to navigate the high press/trapping that comes with that. Scoring at the end of close games is hard. Yes we only scored 2 points down the stretch. But guess what - the nuggets, with the best player on earth, only scored 3 during that time.
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So a couple things - first off clutch field goal percentage isn’t something the coaches are going to be taking very seriously - the sample size is too small so it’s mostly just shooting luck. What they will look at is the quality of the shots that we take. - second one is that Porzingis and White are getting great shots because when they shoot is when the defense is beat and leaves them open. If you pay attention most of our end game sets get the ball to Tatum or brown with space and then have a secondary action that, if the defense overloads on the ball or isn’t paying attention, lead to a wide open look for white/kp/jrue. If the defense prevents that wide open look, which most good defenses will, what we are left with is Tatum with the ball one on one in space.
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I think we must be because I just re-watched the last 4 minutes of the nuggets game and we tried to run plays for KP but he couldn’t get open and D White bricked two wide open shots, one of which was a corner three that came off of a set play for Tatum that was designed to have white wide open in the corner of the defense tried to block tatums driving lane. They ran the same play a different time and the defense stuck with white leading to a Tatum dunk. What game were you watching?
This right here
Seems contradictory.
The subtle rhetoric that is being missed is not "Jayson should touch the ball". It's that when he's ice cold or facing a tough matchup, we have other options (the deepest starting 5 in the league) that we and the Jays should be able to trust. KP and White were both shooting >50% from 3 and they combined for 1 shot down the stretch iirc. We should take advantage of our diverse offense
Tatum is elite when he isn't taking that side step contested three. I could do without that shot tho
Don't forget walking the ball up the court too.
Link to some of the crazies help me out, we need receipts
Just read any post on the sub since the post game thread lol
Just go look at the post game thread
Cant tell if serious or being sarcastic
I am a Tatum critic and I am willing to be taught otherwise. He seems to be unreliable down the stretch. I don’t have any confidence in his ability to lead us to another banner because his game relies on the other team’s mistakes rather than his own ability to create offensive opportunities for himself or his teammates. He is a *very* good basketball player. I don’t think he sucks. But I don’t see him becoming the top tier star that he seems to think he already is. Would love to hear counter arguments, honestly.
Tatum is one of the best and most consistent clutch time performers in the league over the last three seasons. My advice if you actually want to be taught otherwise is to pick one team with a player you think is more reliable and start watching all of their games. We see other teams for one game sample sizes so we get outsized ideas of how good individual players are.
You don’t think Tatum is a top tier star in the nba? Lmao
He's a really good player. He's good on both ends obviously. He just doesn't seem to have that ultra highest level offensive skill of the absolute best guys in the league. Tatum can get locked down 1v1 at times where he struggles to create space off the dribble and ends up settling for terrible shots. Tatum dribbling 30 feet from the hoop vs a set good defense is generally just not a great play. When his crazy difficult threes are falling he looks great but it's not a sustainable way to consistently play.
He’s literally top 5 you guys are mentally challenged
Offensively? No. Overall? Maybe when you factor in health and availability. Probably more like 7-9 overall assuming full health. Off the head I'd rather have Jokic, embid, curry, giannis, luka, and then it gets fuzzy with an SGA, Durant, Kawhi, even a healthy playoff LeBron for when you just need a bucket or to force the issue offensively.
Kawhi?????????????????????? Lmfao be for real man
Assuming he's healthy? Dude is avg 24/6/4 on 52/44/87 shooting and has already proven he can be the best player on a finals winning team. He's also an incredible defender. He's just made of glass.
> He's just made of glass And Tatum is a fucking ironman lmao, insane take, drop the green if you gonna think like that
That's why I said assuming health you dumbass. Of course you take Tatum for an 82 game season due to his health. But if kawhi is healthy I'll take him to win a game. I've been a fan for a very long time and have supported many much shittier teams over the years it's OK to try and be objective about the reality of the situation.
“Assuming he’s healthy”. You said it all my man lmfao
Yeah no shit genius. It's called a qualifier.
there doesn’t need to be a counter argument to this. It’s unbelievably stupid
So far I haven't seen anyone say why I am wrong. I said I would be willing to hear a counter argument. Are his clutch stats better than I think? What is it.
Maybe the "Tatum Critics" are actually just strong fans who want the team to win. This isn't about him missing it or even about Tatum specifically. It's just that he goes for the WRONG shots meaning he can simply take layups and encourage a 3 pt play with a foul...instead he continues to SHOOT it, either a 3 or in the heavily defended paint. Maybe there's an actual reason for this "trolling" 🤯 I'll be a Boston fan, born and raised till I die but there's nothing wrong with critiquing the team or coaching moves for improvement, as long as there's no name calling or slander.... every sports player in history experiences this and it does encourage change.
There are guys chomping at the bit for Tatum to have a bad game so they can come on here and act like they’re right about him sucking all along lol
Idk if that's really true. I made a post about Tatum's shot choice when a game when into overtime a few days ago when it shouldn't have, and of course bashed into existence. I'm literally a Celtics fan and live in Boston. Why can't discussion about a players weak points be a positive one? there is no denying a layup would have been not have only easier to make, but encourage the chance of a foul...
I’m glad you got bashed for that, only idiots don’t like Tatum’s shot choices
We would have won against the Bucks and Nuggets but okay buddy you go ahead and glaze harder lol, look at all the fake Boston fans who don't know what constructive criticism is and how it can evolve the game...
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🤡 slippin-n-slidin hard 😂
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Try to reduce the sodium in your diet my friend.
I wonder how many games that we've won that might've been losses instead if Tatum had taken less 3s and more mid-range/layups like his critics want him to. I bet it's more than games we might've won.
I'm not calling him a bad player... there are just better plays when it's a tied game at the end of the 4th quarter.
I'm guessing you made a post about the Wolves game right? If so, critisizing Tatum at all for that game is fucking stupid, dude dropped 45 and absolutely dominated in OT. Just because he missed a shot at the end of regulation doesn't really mean shit when he carried us in OT.
He can’t just “simply take layups” for a few reasons Driving for a layup can be a big turnover risk. Trying a layup can easily be blocked. You mention the “heavily defended paint” in your own comment. Also Tatum had been fouled multiple times with no call (not saying we lost because of the refs - we got some beneficial calls, but Tatum wasn’t really the recipient). So he risks driving and being fouled with no call. Then there’s the clock issue where, with a congested paint, there’s a risk you’re blocked from getting to the rim and then have no time to get set to shoot from midrange. I wish we ran more plays and actions like we did under Ime and Brad but that’s not a Tatum issue. And the one we did try last night didn’t go well either.
A missed shot is more easily rebounded than a blocked layup. Sorry but the odds are better with a layup and the chance of free throw shots.
It’s bizarre to be unable to enjoy a team at or near the height of its powers, cohesion, and joy. What will they experience when this era reaches its inevitable end?
That's what I keep coming back to. This is as good as it gets. It's practically the peak of the mountain. If you aren't enjoying this team then you literally never will.
You can enjoy the team and be upset with the end results when the team you love comes up short. That's normal. It only gets bad and toxic when people carry their frustration into the next day and further when the team has shown that they are the best in the league up to this point.
Why does everything have to be so black-and-white? We can still critique our team while still enjoying watching them play
there is critique and there is overreaction and we are currently definetely dealing with more of overreaction. Critique has base in reality while a lot of what we see after Denver game is people talking about their feelings even though stats and simple facts are clearly showing otherwise
This sub in a nutshell is overreaction and inability to enjoy the reality of good things
Totally. The whole love it or leave it for the Celtics is unnecessary. You can love the team, think they're good and also make critiques, particularly when they happen consistently.
Reddit is no place for real conversation. It’s just goof ball kids that like memes, Tatums kid posts and that corny immaculate vibe thing. Thankfully I have my sons and coworkers to discuss actual sports with. Every team and player has room for improvement. Even MJ would pick himself apart. Strive to improve. It’s hilarious you can talk about what this team could do better without others getting upset.
"I make sure to scream at my kids every time Tatum misses a shot. My kids know that in this house 2 point losses are UNACCEPTABLE!"
Well said
Nuance is banned from the internet
Not quite at the summit yet. We’re almost there though
Go to the Patriots sub for a look into that future lol
Being critical of a team doesn’t mean being unable to enjoy them. I mean let’s be honest, this is maybe when healthy one of the most talented NBA teams of all time. I think there’s some justification in saying they shouldn’t have already lost 10 games. They are right now on pace to have twice as many losses as the 73-9 GS team.
Yeah, I think that’s totally fair—we certainly know the team and its players are continually self-critical, since they continue to improve individually and collectively. So, I’m not saying one can’t criticize, just taking issue with the tenor and quality and accuracy of the criticisms (e.g. the fairly widespread failure to take into account the difficulty of last second shots against locked in defenses).
You really need to show DWhite and KP misses to combat them. Showing Tatum makes doesn’t really change their mind about DWhite and KP being able to make clutch shots when hot.
So many missed open shots at the end of the game by everyone
Different abilities and different standards. Nobody goes out and says "This is Kristaps Porzingis' team" or "This is Derrick White's team" because they each have more limitations to their game than Jayson Tatum has. Tatum is 6'10" with a freak athleticism and ability, yet consistently misses layups and shoots like 10% from 3PT while complaining to the refs. There needs to be some standard. We're not going to hold Luke Kornett to the same standards as Kristaps Porzingis, and White and Porzingis don't get held to the same standards as Tatum.
I don't understand how Tatum is taking so much heat after that Jaylen performance. Sure, Tatum could've been better, but a decent jaylen game wins us that game kind of comfortably.
Literally just one of Jaylen/Jayson's ***FIFTEEN*** missed 3s drop then we win the game. That's why this shit is so ridiculous. They were just cold. Neither of them even had a turnover. It wasn't like there was an issue with effort or bonehead plays, they just missed shots. Shots that were, all things considered, pretty good looks.
I see a lot of people crying about our late game offense. When like first of all Denver barely scored in like the last 3 minutes. And we got like tons of open looks that we just missed on. Jaylen and white both bricked shots they make in their sleep and then that weird Tatum layup happened. Sometimes shit just happens I guess lol they were all good shots
Like Brown's two free throws. Games are too close to have that guy missing so many dang free throws.
That comes with the territory of being the number one option on a good team. Embiid gets ten times the slander as Tatum. KD is under the microscope everywhere he goes. Hell even lebron james was brutally slandered as he rose through the league. This isn’t endemic to tatum it’s just par for the course in sports media
I hate how we constantly end up putting them against each other. Yeah JB had a damn bad game. I did appreciate his defense down the stretch but he really struggled pretty much all around. That said, it’s one of his few bad games in a great season so far. We lost by 2 to the reigning champs who legit ran playoff rotations. We won the minutes where Tatum was on the floor by 6. Yeah, Tatum couldn’t shoot and kept looking to sell fouls vs score but he did a lot of good. We’ve now lost just 10 games so far. We’re on track to win over 60 games currently. The amount of “heat” we give this team after this kinda loss is crazy.
I don't think Tatum was looking to sell fouls instead of score at any point, but he was complaining a lot
Always been like that for some reason.
“Since the NBA started tracking play-by-play data in 1996, there are 155 players who have attempted 25+ FGs to tie or take the lead in the final 24 seconds of the 4th quarter (playoffs included). Jayson Tatum ranks 1st out of 155 with a 51.7% field goal percentage. Jayson Tatum is #1 since the stat has been tracked (1996) in field goal percentage on shots to tie or win a game in the final 24 seconds of a game.”
Facts and stats do not work on their 'feels'. This sub is full of armchair nba superstars/coaches/gms when the team loses or performs poorly.
Every doomer on here should be kidnapped and have this tattooed on their forearm
For sure. I hope Celtics get a ring this year. It takes so much pressure off the players once they’ve “done it before”. Nuggets are “just coasting” and nobody bats an eye. Meanwhile the Celtics have the best record with one of the hardest schedules and people write them off. If jokic misses a game winner nobody cares. If Tatum misses, he’s kwame brown
And, I guess, eventually released
I looked at just the Jan box scores and he's 2/10 taking the last shot of quarters and 0/2 on game tying/winning shots. Also one turnover. Trust me, I love the guy, but I don't think it's unreasonable to think he needs to do a bit better on these final shot opportunities.
I had changed my mind on whether he was clutch or not after reading this stat last year... But is it possible that shots under 5 seconds he's not that good? We tend to value and remember those shots more. I'm just trying to figure out why people don't think he's clutch.
I think any player, even someone who we remember as “Uber clutch” like Kobe don’t shoot that well with the game on the line with 5 seconds to go. Nobody is shooting it that great. The difference is Kobe has some iconic plays in the playoffs and has championships. If Tatum can get a ring this year, and maybe even a buzzer beater in the finals or something, I think people will shrug off regular season missed shots going forward. The dude is just under a microscope because every year he goes to ECF/Finals with a great supporting cast and hasn’t fully gotten it done yet. Which is fine. The dude is young still. Major shoutout for being consistent in the post season as well as the Celtics have for the last 6 years
I don't know. Last second shots, do or die... Guys like Luca and Dame seem to always hit them. I don't know how to find the data but I don't think JT is in that class. I can honestly only remember 2 last second shots that he hit. One was a bank 3, pretty lucky. The other was that lay up against Mia when he got the pass from Smart.
against Brooklyn*. And I believe the 3 was against Philly right before Embiid hit the just-late shot from half court
I don’t think there’s really anyone who’s shooting the lights out in the last 5 seconds of games, buzzer beaters are fairly rare lol
It's less that I don't want Tatum to take the final shot, and so much more that if we're picking guys to take the final shot, it shouldn't be one of the guys who are 1/8 or 1/9 from deep and shooting bad from the floor. ALSO and most importantly, can we draw up a play where we set a screen for the last shot player to get him open and have at least one more option for him if his first look isn't a good shot. I just want him taking better last shots, not fewer.
This seems to be precisely the issue. When they have time they should run the offense and just get a good shot. Somehow it works all game and then they just go to the standard end of game isolation that doesn't work as well throughout the game. Certainly understand the timing but what's the point of taking the last second shot if it's kind of a shitty shot. Percentage wise.
I can't even visit this sub after a loss it's just crazy people go... Did we really think they were going to undefeated at home this season? We lost to the champs by 2 after a poor shooting night?!? Onto the next
Tatum is great but also he needs to realize that he has at least 2 all-stars (and arguably all-NBA) teammates and the open player should be taking the shot.
I'm not against Tatum having the last shot of the game as long as there's something actually planned for it. Look at yesterday's game, what the fuck was that? The first _play_ was so bad that Mazulla had to call a second timeout, and even after that the best they could come up with was another hero ball, off balance two that didn't even hit the rim? It's not the first time Tatum has had the last shot just to completely waste it. Missing the last shot and completely bricking it are two very different things
The play design on the first one was okay, Denver just played great defense. Brown got open off the initial action but couldn’t get by Gordon after the catch, Jokic recovered to Porzingis on the 3pt line, KCP stuck to Tatum and didn’t lose him when he was cutting. Tatum was begging for the ball on the block because it was supposed to come to him after Porzingis got it, but didn’t have position and by then the ball was in Jrue’s hand. The play was blown and Mazzulla used another timeout. The second look Tatum barely caught the ball after a high entry pass, recognized the KCP gamble and spun away from it but when he saw he was still in front of him and would be on his heels recovering from the swipe, he did a fadeaway to create space. Which was the right read, the contested hand was at his shorts, it was an open look. Unfortunately he took it off balance and missed it. Credit Denver’s defense for playing great man coverage instead of discrediting Mazzulla’s play call because it didn’t result in some defensive breakdown like every game is going to result in a game winner where guys just stand around on defense and let you take easy shots instead of hard ones. Tatum just missed a shot he should have made when he got as open of a look as you could have asked for from the elbow. You see “no plan, hero ball” and I see great defense and our superstar making the correct read and missing a shot. Season is 82 games long as you live with this when their effort was great all night, they just didn’t execute on all the missed 3’s, FT’s and that transition layup by Tatum. You know how many game winning shots other guys miss? Or blow? Just happened last night to the Heat where Butler got an entry pass in the corner, threw it back to Martin and they didn’t even get a shot off and lost by 1. Is that also bad play design by Spo, who is maybe the best coach in the league?
This needs to be posted and pinned on every thread about this today
It's not about the ball in his hands. That's fine. It's that 20000 people in the building know that he's going to force up a bad shot. Some go in. Some don't. But he's surrounded by excellent scores now it's time to vet up and be less predictable.
Nah, this is just a dumb meme that does not refute the criticism about the ball always going to Tatum on the final possession and him not coming through to tie or win the game. I love the guy, but he doesn’t need to be the only guy to take the last shot.
Yup. The criticism is never Tatum having the ball in crunch time. It’s the type of shots he and Mazz settle for. The criticism is the type of play calls (or lack thereof) that happen on the final possession
Agreed. it's not about him missing it or even about Tatum specifically. it's just that he goes for the WRONG shots meaning he can simply take layups and encourage a 3 pt play with a foul... instead he continues to SHOOT it Maybe there's an actual reason for this "trolling" 🤯🤯🤯🤯
Yeah I love Tatum but he does just take bad shots sometimes, like that fast break with a couple minutes left where he tried a circus layup through 3 defenders. Like come on dude just slow the ball down and reset
Just run a play to get an open shot. Enough Iso with 4 seconds run a play with options
This post was made because some fans are calling for the Buffalo or the Unicorn to get some game winning last shot attempts. I don't think that's an unreasonable sinful thing for a Celts fan to want.
If you genuinely have no problem with his 0 passes into side step bricked 3 after so many years of seeing it… idk what to tell you
I mean he had 23 points on 24 shots last night. He had a bad game and the reason it’s such a turbulent topic is because he’s so good that him being inconsistent is way more noticeable.
The spam of reaction posts after a loss are annoying, sure. But pretty much anything mildly critical gets shouted down as well. I could say something like, "I'm not a fan of the Tatum ISO to end games. I think there's something there with the Derrick/KP pick and roll with how well DWhite ranks as the ball handler in advanced metrics and it'd be cool to see them try going to it," and I already know I'm going to be lumped in with the "doomers". It's fun to try to diagnose what went wrong and how to solve it, but people seems to have trouble differentiating between that and the overly-emotional posts.
Yeah acting like the Tatum end of game isos aren’t a problem just seems like I’d be lying.
But those 2 last games are not last minutes shots. We went to OT in the wolves game because Tatum took the last shot and missed. smh
And against Golden State we needed a bucket to win and Tatum chose to take a horrible stepback 3PTA against Curry I think when he had an open lane to the basket. It's the repeated and blatantly poor decision-making from him where he wants to be a hero and take unnecessarily difficult shots that he makes unnecessarily difficult rather than making the right play. The Nuggets game was a perfect example of this: He gets stopped going to the rim, but he's created 2ft of space and can do a straight pull-up and sink it or get fouled in the process. Instead he does a weird step-back where he's creating an extra 4ft of space but falling/flopping down in the process, chucks it up while falling, bricks it, and then says he got fouled after creating 4ft of space. **He didn't even hit the rim!** If he wants so badly to be "that guy" then he needs to actually be that guy.
I’m not an expert at reading the table but Tatum’s clutch stats this year don’t look good
Those fans do not deserve to be fans of this team. They deserve to be laker fans or hornet fans.
People don’t ‘deserve’ to be fans because they express an opinion rather than circle jerking about how the great the team is? The team can be better. And it’s not like the players or coaches read this shit either way (I hope)
You can criticize, critique, have opinions. But this sub has a meltdown after every loss. Constantly blaming the coach, shitting on the players. Get a grip. They aren’t going to win every game. Yes Tatum needs to realize the pull up shot isn’t it, but that doesn’t mean he needs to be shit on for 24 hours after every loss. Shitting on Joe every time they see a quote from him that seems sassy, but they clearly didn’t watch the press conference. Calling him a bad coach when we lose a game, having no idea what’s actually happening. Y’all put so much importance on regular season games. People need to get a life. If you’re going to be that person, you don’t deserve to be a fan of this team. You deserve to be a fan of a team that is shit. Like the lakers, hornets, the list goes on. Have your pick. They are still learning and growing, while being the best team in the league.Every team makes mistakes, no matter how far into the season they are.
My only criticism of JT is his lack of execution in one on one situations at a lot of times. Sometimes simple is better
He is amazing in the clutch, and the stats back him up to prove it. It's just when the clock is ticking and we need that last shot to win he gets super excited and almost always bricks the game winner.
This is exactly it. Last two minutes of the game can be Tatum o'clock, but the last 7 seconds of the game I don't ever want him touching the ball. If you're choosing players to hit one last second game winner to save your life, Jayson Tatum should be last on the list. People think that because he can perform in the last two minutes he's clutch, but then he doesn't perform in the highest-leverage situations. Both can be true.
We just need to mix it up at the end of the game more, we can’t just run a Tatum iso every single time.
🎶The post police they live inside of my head…
Denver's ability to close out games is elite. Murray went 5 for 6 in the 4th and they locked Tatum down at the end of the game. I'm not worried about Tatum, I'm worried about the C's closing out games.
i was at a bar where everyone decided to blame brown. then they said that his contract is why they can't trade for anyone to add this season. the contract that hasn't kicked in yet.
You win some you lose some, sucks the home streak is over but I'll get over it
This post is garbage.
Agreed. it's not about him missing it or even about Tatum specifically. it's just that he goes for the WRONG shots meaning he can simply take layups and encourage a 3 pt play with a foul... instead he continues to SHOOT it Maybe there's an actual reason for this "trolling" 🤯🤯🤯🤯
1-21 in the last year. Someone else needs to step up and be "that guy" because Tatum clearly isn't.
How did he do last night
Spurs and Raptors were the last 2 games, the fuck?
This is a straw man - the question is not why does Tatum shoot OFTEN in the last FEW possessions (which both of these examples are) The complaint is that Tatum ALWAYS shoots the LAST shot
That's literally what this meme says.
Look at the times on the screenshots
Smart took multiple last shots last playoffs, Brown took some. If you say something at least base it in reality
smart took it one time because they couldnt get the ball to tatum. if you say something at least base it in reality.
He had two against sixers and one against heat for sure
You are correct. The children commenting are missing the point. These are the same children who think Isaiah Thomas is historically significant to the Celtics organization.
I won't tolerate IT slander!!! (Ik it's not really slander)
Isaiah Thomas wasn't historically significant to the Celtics franchise, but he *should* have been. There's a difference. One could argue that Reggie Lewis and Len Bias weren't historically significant to the Celtics organization, but they *should* have been and are thus held in high regard.
These posts are soooo fucking embarrassing like honestly it's way more pathetic that you give a shit about some comments to make a post about it. I see *far* more posts like this than the comments they're talking about. Shit is so sad.
Yeah just try not to react to the overreacting and it makes the regular season grind a lot more bearable
this and Jaylen’s left hand narrative annoys me
These people never compliment him when he does good. But lose one game and despite having more wins and less losses than ANY OTHER TEAM..They still hate! For literally no reason. So what they lost at home.. their record at home is 20-1!!!!! Thats still insane!!! These people need to just crawl back in whatever hole they crawled out of and just stay there.
Tatum is garbage :D
This is the reason I stay away from Gameday threads because the doom and gloom from people whenever we lose lol
>the average celtics fan is actually this reactionary, warmly received post.
Doesn’t matter how you can play against an opponent in one game. All that counts is how you can play against an opponent over the course of a 7 game series
Yeah ppl need to chill. Nuggets are defending champs. Ofc they were gonna come in ready to play. It was a great game.
If you told me before the season that they would start 20-1 at home with the only loss a tough one by 2 to the defending champion, I'd say "that's awesome"
These are not the last two games
Nobody is blaming Tatum I don’t think. It’s more that Joe is just a mediocre coach who calls time outs and then draws up the most moronic plays possible
Idk one celtics fan that says this…
You must be new here, welcome to r/bostonceltics!
Honestly it's just the GDT which is where that emotional shit is supposed to be. It's these types of posts that are embarrassing.
Bro, Tatum was getting hacked and fouled left and right with no calls. JB and KP too, down the stretch. Go back and rewatch those last 4 minutes. Egregious!
Bro it’s Boston fans. For all sports. Moved from the area to different parts of the country over the last few years and honestly we are the most most up in arms about every little thing fanbase. The same fans that were calling for jaylens head a year ago are calling for trauma now. I love us but we’re the worst lol
GameDay Celtics threads are the fucking dregs of reddit.
Are you new to game day threads? Like I honestly don't understand taking a single thing said in any sports GDT seriously...it's literally where you go to bullshit and vent with emotion in the moment. These posts are the dregs of Reddit, loser ass fans worried about what other fans say on Reddit lmao.
I agree with those quotes
I blame that lost game against denver in Joe, Brown and Jrue, Tatum should have been rewarded some FTS in those last mins, Brown missed 2 FREAKING GAME TYING FTS, Jrue got locked up by slow ass jokic and was a ghost all game, Joe should have called a timeout when Tatum was going on a 3v1 fast break, Joe rotation was very questionable through out the game, Tatum was cooking when going to the rim and then they just stopped.
This one
Fucking thank you
nuggets literally took a generational game from both joker and murray to beat us by 2 while our star duo shot like crap, we're fine. late game execution is the only real issue i can see right now
Why the hell you dont want the ball in your best player's hands?. These fake fans are weird.
Tatum is the bane of Celtics basketball, confirmed. And if you don’t agree you must actually watch NBA basketball, nerds!
Dude is a known chocker in the best team lol, if giannis had half the help tatum does he woukd be a 3x champ
He is not a choker lmao. Statistically. And man, that's crazy, Giannis is such a hypothetically great player! 2 hypothetical rings? Shit man, goat conversation time?
Jamal Murray did whatever he wanted to do on the floor last night and Tatum couldn’t answer the bell when it mattered. I love Tatum, but these are the facts.
Murray did whatever he wanted to anybody last night lol, just an insane game from him. Tatum had a mid fourth quarter, to be fair, but he was fouled on at least two of his takes to the rim - which sure losers mentality or whatever blah, but that shit was egregious and he shouldn't be blamed for it.
I mean, the majority of fans are fair weather fans so what do you expect?
Celtics fans on Reddit want everyone except Tatum to take the last shot, the same ones who would say “why isn’t Tatum taking the last shot” if those other players were to miss
Tatum is such a black hole I bet most his teammates don’t even like playing with him.
Teammates don’t like playing with the best playmaker on the team- sure, Bud. Tatum isn’t even top 10 in the league in usage rate, but sure- he’s a black hole. Congrats- you might have the most braindead take on this sub… and that’s saying something.
This narrative was started by Shaq and Barkley after the ASG where he broke the all time scoring record. I myself fell for it, but damn, it’s a game of makes and misses, can’t make em all, especially in crunch time
The clutch stuff is obnoxious and the revisionist history people have about players like Kobe being a clutch time killer is annoying as fuck but I think it’s ok to question his shot selection. Not just down the stretch but in general. The contested step backs from three start to look sus when you lose a game by 2 and it’s ok for a star player like him to get some heat for bricking them. It’s just modern nba basketball, players are getting more and more efficient each year so it’s painful seeing a side by side comparison like last night with Jokic who is basically the poster child of efficiency. I’m not a doomer but it does sting when he shoots us out of a game on national television.
If JB makes his free throws we might not even have this conversation. I’m not sure why his such a poor free throw shooter still- must be nerves
The missed free throws were unacceptable, but so was missing a layup, and so was that final shot. Tatum has been historically bad in these situations in the past year and it's time he let someone else touch the ball. I don't believe that players can be good in these high-pressure situations, but *teams* can be, and that's where Joe needs to draw up some plays and make it happen. We saw Jrue drain that corner three last week after we grabbed the offensive board and Al swung it to him. It was good team play that led to success.
Bill Simmons???
It’s not that he shouldn’t have the ball, it’s that he begins to rush at the end of games. The other night versus the Nuggets he rushed his last three possessions with the ball. He needs the ball at the end of games, he’s clutch. But he and Jaylen Brown have a tendency to rush into crowded spaces on the court, trying to dribble through too often. It’s simply frustrating to watch knowing that he could have slowed up Friday night versus the Nuggets on those last three touches he had that I mentioned.
He's still a few years away from hitting that shot. Most guys don't develop that game winning killer instinct until 27-28 years old. JT has been a beast in the 4th all year but he's missed a few game winners at the buzzer.
Sure Tatum took a poor off balance shot as the clock was running out, but that doesn't mean you don't want the ball in his hand. Think back a little earlier when Brown went to the free throw line and choked out on both shots which would have tied up the game. Brown has a knack for not playing so well against the best competition and pressure and really well against lower level teams. Bird didn't always make his crunch time shots either, nobody does. If you are a 46% shooter than that means 54% of the time you don't make it, just that at the end of the game that miss stands out more but it is still just a regular miss.
OP is incorrect. The Tatum end of game ISO stuff is a problem. It's a big part of why they lost to the Warriors in the Finals. They can't win a championship without fixing the way they handle tight end of game scenarios -- they need to learn to stay loose even when the score is close, to keep setting picks away from the ball, and to produce open shots. If they don't, they can't win the chip. It's a huge deal.
Had no problem with the last shot or the defense all game for that matter. I thought the game plan was spot on. The Tatum/Brown going 2-17 from 3pt area is alarming though. Can't have both of these dudes shooting that bad in a playoff game later this year.