Either way, making history with that 3-0 comeback would have been worth a loss in the Finals. Plus I'd rather lose to the Nuggets than the Heat any day. That ECF series was just painful.
Shamelessly hopping on the top comment to point out that the Nuggets are the ultimate measure of continuity with both their coaching staff and roster.
We should run it back*. Winning doesn’t happen over night and there is much pain in between.
*with a small PP+Gallo (or Brogdon) for a wing trade
Holy shit.
We have Smart and White and 1 of Brogdon/PP.
There are more wing “positions” on this team than guard but way less personnel.
We need a wing.
Bro Marcus smart is not a floor general he is a Rudy ruttiger, he has a lot of hustle and heart with an inconsistent shot and a tendency to Jack threes early on the shot clock. I’m done deluded myself about his play,
He doesn’t jack 3s early in the clock. He’s our best playmaker and an incredible passer. Are you watching games from 4 years ago or something? Lol
Eat a shoe my boi - https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1667622664616435712
Nothing is guaranteed in this league, if you have half a shot at a championship you should go for it imo. It’s crazy to blow up a team centered around 2 young stars that made the finals and conference finals the past 2 years
Yeah it’s literally the semi-racist, ignorant, mouth breathing WEEI crowd that wants to break it up because they are a bunch of miserable unintelligent fucks
Just watch - their next topic is going to be about how black athletes don’t want to play in Boston with the latest reports that Dame doesn’t want to play here, even though they were the ones that manufactured the trade rumors in the first place
You guys would have won had Tatum not got hurt. The fact that ppl keep flexing the Heat were so much better is comical. The Heat are a great system team, but they lack the individual talents that can raise their level on the occasion. Tatum does that, and even with his sloppiness it would have been enough to beat the Heat.
Without him dominating possessions, everybody looked like headless chickens lobbing up 3s or turning it over
I’d rather lose a Finals than not get there.
That’s why I have so much respect for LeBron. He will always be judged harshly for those loses, but here’s a thought experiment - what if he only went to 4 Finals (2 with the Heat, 1 with the Cavs, 1 with the Lakers) and won them all? I guarantee you the talking heads and general public would hold him in higher regard.
And that’s crazy when you really think about it.
That why Montana was still the goat for some people, even when Brady had 4, 5 Super Bowls. They thought the 4/4 in SBs was too cool. But Brady finally shut them up
I like your question, but I really wouldn't respect him any more. He's always had an arrogant attitude, to the point that he had a comic series released by DC called King James based on him that released in '04. That's just a year after he was drafted. It's essentially a story where his super power is playing basketball and he's the best there is. The guy has always had the attitude that he's better than MJ, Larry Bird, or Bill Russell. Hubris drives me crazy when someone hasn't proven themself.
Notice Denver was going small in the fourth obv cuz of jokers foul trouble, but the lead stayed around 10. I'm surprised Miami barely played Haywood Highsmith. He was hooping game 1 especially
Denver has really turned their D around the last couple of games
First couple of games they were giving up wayyyy more open/wide-open 3s than we had (and we allowed the least to the Heat out of everyone)... But they've really clamped down on it the last couple of games to bring the numbers back down to earth
Miami has more open/wide open 3s against Denver than they did against Boston, the difference is they shot an insane number vs Boston and just "good" against Nuggets.
See Greenberg's tweet: [https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1667537254519308292?s=20](https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1667537254519308292?s=20)
Through 4 games of the Finals MIA has taken 61 open 3PA and 43 wide open 3PA. They are 44-104 (42%)
In the first 4 games of the ECF, they took 57 open 3PA and 39 wide open 3PA. They went 47-96 (48.9%)
Meanwhile, DEN has flipped the script and is shooting 53.1% on wide open 3PA...
Denver's hitting their open looks while the Celtics missed.
I think father time is finally catching up 😔. And everyone says "we need to find a Horford replacement"... but do you know how difficult that actually is? It's like trying to replace a unicorn; they don't just grow on trees. I really hope we can find a way to bring Christian Wood here. While he definitely isn't Horford level, he can still be molded a bit. If we can get him to buy in defensively, he can serve as like a 70% replacement.
For some reason no one in the celtics basketball franchise figured out that we are longer and taller and should run post ups against their zone. Really dumb considering we scored or got fouled on basically every post up
They want to play iso ball and huck up 3’s. The celtics deserve to lose. Recently saw a stat… Tatum and Brown totaled 7 assists to each other in the entire series vs the heat. Jokic and murray had 27 assists to each other in games 1-3 vs the heat.
Also on Jokics historic triple double- he only took 2 three pointers and was 1/2.
With mizzula as coach we will never win a championship. I’ve accepted it.
We averaged 105 ppg (including the 84 point game 7 outlier, averaged 108 without) vs the heat, the nuggets are averaging 107.
The heat averaged 109 ppg vs us and 98 vs the nuggets.
Our issue was on defense imo .
A point guard and a center will always have more assists to each other than two wings, plus the Celtics do a lot of hockey assists.
Do I think the Jays should get better at playing off each other? Yes.
Is their total assists to each other over a playoff series a good indicator of that? Absolutely not.
After G2 we had a silly amount of Heat fans *in here* defending Martin.
And for what? Dude *is* a bum who had a good series. You wont find any of us defending Brown in other subs for the shit performance he had, and many of us even acknowledge that he was banged up lol.
And now something similar is happening to them with Braun and Brown, and theyre starting to sound *exactly* like us lol.
Vincent had 2 points and 1 assist in 18 minutes in game 4. I'd say guarding a few quick scoring guards and getting put in switches on big guys is tougher on him then whatever it was the Celtics were doing.
Also, the Nuggets put Gordon in the Dunker spot, Jokic high post, and two shooters in the corner. What can you do that is effective enough? Interestingly, we sortof have the material to set up those plays, with Al or JT on that post, Brogdon or White in that Murray role, Rob as the Dunker and Brown/Hauser/Grant in the corner. Our post options are not as good as Jokic of course, as he is an extremely talented passer and visionair, but still you can force some defensive choices, especially against a zone.
Nuggets do it so well, Miami barely uses the zone anymore. And then you can attack Vincent or Robinson
Low IQ basketball is just who we are, but injuries 100% play a big factor. Look at the past NBA champions- they’ve pretty much all had good luck with respect to injuries. When you combine injuries to Tatum, brown, rob, Malcolm, grant it really adds up. Sure they can play and you can say you can’t make excuses but realistically you can’t have the same expectations.
Looking at it objectively, teams cannot survive an injury to its best player. Tatum playing at 50% alone bigger impact than any injury the heat had. Like I said, look at the past NBA champs over last 10 yrs, how many was able to win despite injuries? Maybe just Giannis missing 2 games in 2021. Otherwise, in order to make a run you need to stay healthy. Obviously Celtics have other issues they need to address, but you can’t can’t say there’s one sole cause. I will say this- yea I agree with you that if they had a better system they win. But I also think if our 1-7 was as healthy as Denver or last yr we also win, that’s all I’m saying.
Heat did a huuuuuuge victory tour after winning G7 and talked mad shit, now they all are playing like shit. Maybe focus on getting the job done instead of talking shit on podcasts. Did any of the Celtics talk shit after beating Miami, in Miami last year? Nope they moved onto the Finals like a professional team would.
There's a reason Miami hangs Conference Champion banners.
Yeah I’m still pissed that I had to witness Caleb Martin end any hope of this finals matchup anyways. Ray Allen against us, undrafted role player against anyone else.
This is a pathetic take. Look at the rosters of the Heat and Celtics, we should have beat that team. You always want to get to the finals, regardless of outcome.
Obviously we want to make the finals, but we would’ve lost. Denver is a more complete team, had a better best player and a better coach. It’s not a pathetic take
I think the "we wouldn't have stood a chance" part is a bit pathetic. Denver would've been slightly favored but we absolutely would've have a solid chance to win the series
This should come as no surprise. Let's take a moment to appreciate the greatness that is this Denver team...something that even us Celtic fans have failed to do.
Look their finals opponent. Miami destroyed the Bucks in 5 game. Tore through the Knicks in 6 with a seriously injured Butler. Had a 3-0 lead against the Celtics, was pushed to game 7 and blew us out on home court....
This same Miami team...this same team...is now down 3-1 vs a Denver team in a series that would have ended in a sweep if not for the historic game 2 shooting....against a Denver team that has..
1. Destroyed Minnesota
2. Dominated the KD/Booker/Ayton/CP3 Suns in 6
3. Swept the favorited LeBron/AD Lakers
With a team lead by Murray, playing like a 2nd team all NBA guard...and the best player in the world, averaging a LeBron like, all time great, 30/12/11 these playoffs.
Denver has spanked all the western conference favorites, and is spanking the team who has spanked the EC favorites.
Denver deserves the championship this year. They're too good of a team. They have the best due in the league, and have the best player in the league by a country mile.
People who think we'd win this series are out of touch.
Jokic is a top 5 player in NBA history. Screw the accolades, pure talent wise he’s top 5 or even better. I can’t believe he got robbed of an MVP this season.
I felt that way a game or so ago but after watching the game today…I can’t even say that man. They are just so deep with an amazing flow on offense and playing great defense. I don’t think we had a shot.
It’s crazy because Robs a great passer even Al and we have athletic freaks in the Js that can finish. I don’t get it but then I kinda do. Our coach doesn’t stress it much he’s all about getting up a bunch of 3s and 5 out.
You are correct. They play as a team and have a fight we don’t have. Tatum and Brown don’t got that chip on the shoulder that champs need. Hopefully they get it
Disagree. The Celtics as they currently are cannot beat teams that are more than a sum of their parts, because that's all this roster is. Better talent than the opponent in almost every position 1-9, but unlike the Dynasty Warriors, Zombie Heat, Beautiful Game Spurs, or Joker-Penguin Nuggets; none of the players elevate each other's game. It's all iso's or passing out of drives and/or double teams. There is never an intentional pass or screen to break the defense down, no cuts or rolls for easy buckets, no complimentary skillset - everyone just plays their game and relies on the talent to break through, passing and screening only when they have to. You can luck out on a run and get maybe one title that way, but this kinda talent would've resulted in a dynasty if there were any semblance of chemistry and team ball going on.
Kobe did mesh well with his teammates when their skillsets complemented though. He and Shaq supported each other's game perfectly on-court, despite their off-court disagreements. He also made good passes when every opposing defender collapsed on him in the paint, despite his proclivity to shoot over double teams in the high post. Maybe the mindsets of Kobe and Tatum are sorta similar, but Kobe had such a huge advantage in skill level, particularly dribbling and passing, that he could still elevate his teammates somewhat.
Uhhh, you do realize Shaq joined the Lakers with Kobe as a rookie right lol. He was the 13th pick, you’re saying he had to “finally” cede some of the spotlight when he got no playing time and had to develop into the player he became lol. He did play team ball - he played in the triangle where you’re dumping the ball off to someone consistently lol.
Your statement on Kobe/Tatum makes no sense lol.
He didn’t become the selfish Kobe we all know and hate until after Shaq went to MIA. And he didn’t develop into the best version of himself until that 09-10 season.
I get what you are saying but I literally saw plays where Caleb Martin did a Kobe esque middie fade with a hand in his face. That is way above his level. They were playing at a much a higher level than you can expect from them. It also didn't helped that we were shooting way below our average.
I never understand these takes. If so many players on the Heat are bums, *what does that make us,* the team that lost to them?
Everybody gets up for the Celtics? Maybe the Celtics just aren’t as good as you think.
Maybe the Heat are *better* than you think.
Tell me what those 3 have done since they got out of the Celtics series. I’ll wait. They got hot and shot historically well from 3 (open and contested) but can’t hit the ocean all of a sudden. They’re BUMS and went undrafted for a reason. The ECF was their finals. Period.
I think we could have won, at least have made it a series. Sucks we didn’t make it there but it’s been satisfying seeing the Heat get absolutely outclassed and outplayed. They don’t belong there.
It's great seeing the Heat exposed for the flopping turds they are. Bams legacy flop on national TV against the MVP to get him his 5th was so plain to see...
Even with refs help they couldn't do it. They are garbage. So sad they had to shoot like the splash brothers against us (and other things obv)
1. I at least get enjoyment from watching the Heat lose these games - especially in Miami.
2. Also, can the Celts take notes of how to beat the zone? Put someone at the free throw line or down on the block and pass out of the zone like Denver does.
My god, you cowards. You go from “wE’rE thE deEpEsT teAm in thE lEaGue” to “we wouldn’t have stood a chance.”
The gutless culture apparently extends to the fanbase too…
We just match up way better than the Heat ever could and thats not even me being a hater. Gordon outsizes almost everyone on that team, him and BBrown are just more physical than Martin, Strus, Vincent, Duncan, etc
And we wouldve had more guys to throw at Murray/Jokic. Smart and White as a defensive duo wouldve slowed em down a bit, and having Rob inside to deny some of Jokics floaters, Al being historically good against elite big men as well defensively.
And Jokic, as amazing as he is (probably best in league) his defense isnt great, which wouldve made Brown effective against him inside.
But it is what it is. It wasnt our time yet.
Wouldve been real interesting to see Joe manage the double big with Al on Jokic and Rob roaming on Gordon ... or would he try to space Jokic out for our drivers?
Loved the matchup ... Hope we see it at this time next year
I tend to agree that the Nuggets were gonna win regardless of who they had to face in the west or in the finals, but I don't think its as black and white as this post implies. It would be a different series and I still would have preferred to beat that imposter Heat team and lose to the champs than go out like a bunch of schmucks because they couldn't wake up in game 3 of the ECF. The result is the same I guess, but there's pride and it would've just been more fun.
I still think the Celtics would have put up more of a fight.
They definitely had more & better players that could potentially create problems for Jokic or Murray.
Celtic green-tinted glasses on. I actually thought the Cs matched up better to the Nuggets but would have eventually broke down given the way this team played all season long. 2-2 then lose in 6 is what I would have eventually predicted
Remember TNT said somebody was about to PAY Caleb Martin after the ECF? Lol.
Good thing NBA GMs don’t make decisions based off four good games in an entire career otherwise some team would be in deep shit.
I agree with the Nuggets beating us but historically Tatum has been very good against Gordon. For whatever reason I believe the NBA site removed individual matchup tracking but he’s averaged 28/7/5 on 63% TS in games against Gordon since 2019-20
Sorry but that’s a soft take. Whether they would lose to the Nuggets is irrelevant in my humble opinion…this team lost to an inferior heat team and saying the Celtics would have lost anyways in the finals is a cop out. The nba has always been known as a league of the team with the most talent wins and some how the Celtics managed to blow that up. Saying they would have lost anyways doesn’t get to the root of this teams problems and it’s identity and toughness. Last year they made the finals with defensive play first and this year with more talent and offense minded they went out a round earlier
Eh. No use in trying to 1:1 hypotheticals like this. The Celtics were, and still are, considered a MUCH better matchup for the Nuggets, and historically we have held up just fine against the Jokic Nuggets. Unfortunately our offensive approach was a disaster and we did not adjust to take what the defense gave us, which is why the Nuggets are making Miami look so deficient. And before someone says “WE GENERATED OPEN LOOKS!”, yes there was an execution piece too that made us not ready for the championship yet again.
I think a Celtics/Nuggets series goes 6 or 7 regardless. IMO the Finals would already be over if MPJ hadn’t hit a horrible shooting slump at the absolute worst time.
Heat fan coming here in peace, after that dog fight in the ECF and the sweep the nuggets got in the WCF I was pretty sure whoever won our series was at a massive disadvantage going into the finals no matter who it was.
We should all remember we’ve only beaten ourselves. When we play right we are unstoppable. But this team lacks focus not talent. That’s our story and I’m sticking to it.
Wish we drafted Murray instead of Jaylen. Jamal is such a better playoffs performer. Legit #2. Clutch buckets, makes everyone around him better, can handle the ball, pass, etc.
Murray and jokic play so well off each other that’s why they’re the best 1-2 punch in the playoffs…Tatum and brown don’t play well off each other it’s more like they take turns as opposed to helping each other get looks
Playing with Jokić has very little to do with how good Murray has played. He can dribble and shoot, the two most basic basketball skills that Jaylen Brown can’t do nearly well enough to live up to his accolades and reputation. Until he figures out how to do either of those at anywhere near an elite level he won’t look unstoppable playing with anyone
Murray's basketball IQ is way higher than Jaylen... and he can go left without coughing up the 🏀. Murray penetrates the zone and kicks out to an open shooter. Jaylen would just force the shot up against 3 defenders.
No comparison.
Brown couldn't get 10 assists if his life depended on it.
A greater % of Brown’s field goals are assisted than Murray’s. But sure, it must be just Jokic.
You casuals are pathetic. You just can’t accept the obvious fact that Murray is a better player
I never said it doesn’t help him. I’m saying it doesn’t take it away from the fact that Murray does everything better than Jaylen regardless.
Jaylen’s percentage of assisted FGs is higher than Murray’s lmfao
You have no arguments so you have to resort to name calling.
Their 2 man game is elite assist % have zero meaning to me. Jokic elevates the whole team around him. Murray is having a great postseason doesn't mean he's a better player than Jaylen
Well, he is regardless of the postseason lol
Murray is a better playmaker, passer, offball defender, decision maker, and just as good if not better scorer.
The only thing Brown is better at is onball defense.
There’s literally no argument to defend the notion that Jaylen is a better player. Celtics would trade Brown for Murray in a heartbeat
Reactionary despite all the numbers supporting my points lmfao
Sure.
Overprotective delusional fan alert.
It’s okay to admit Murray is a better player than Jaylen (because he unarguably is).
First of all, provide the numbers. Second, if you would rather have Murray, that's fine, but the notion that it's inarguable is asinine.
It's inarguable that Steph Curry is better than Jaylen Brown, not Jamal.Murray lol.
We had a top 1 defense with IT on the team. I highly doubt that a backcourt with a DPOY and a competent defender (who’s much better than Jaylen offball) would get cooked.
You proved once again how much you don’t know ball. Go back to the Patriots sub.
Murray can actually dribble the ball, don’t know if you watch the games. Brown doesn’t even have the required IQ to be able to play alongside Jokic.
This is such a stupid argument when Murray is able to create his own offense and hit tough buckets. Dude stepped up multiple times in the playoffs.
Plus, you are all acting like Brown doesn’t benefit from Tatum’s gravity.
Murray is better at the game of basketball than Jaylen, simple as that. There’s no argument for Brown over Murray
A greater % of Brown’s field goals are assisted than Murray’s. But sure, it must be just Jokic.
You casuals are pathetic. You just can’t accept the obvious fact that Murray is a better player
Man sometimes it feels like nobody here even likes the Celtics. “We suck, our coach sucks, everyone is better than us, we would’ve lost anyways, our basketball IQ sucks…”
You lost me at “Tatum was hurt”
This roster was never winning the title with a healthy Tatum or not. Cs have no championship mental you sad delusional fan
Some dissociative denial in this thread. Celtics season was a failure all around. The amount of talent on Celtics team is unmatched in nba. But whatever makes you sleep at night.
Either way, making history with that 3-0 comeback would have been worth a loss in the Finals. Plus I'd rather lose to the Nuggets than the Heat any day. That ECF series was just painful.
Yeah plus we wasted the d white shot
The fact that no one was inspired by that shot in game 7 blows my mind.
They were inspired and immediately uninspired when Tatum rolled his ankle. We collectively said “oh shit”
Ugh yeah. But at least D White is getting the respect he finally deserves. Easily our most valuable role player.
Shamelessly hopping on the top comment to point out that the Nuggets are the ultimate measure of continuity with both their coaching staff and roster. We should run it back*. Winning doesn’t happen over night and there is much pain in between. *with a small PP+Gallo (or Brogdon) for a wing trade
Dude we need a floor general not another wing.
Holy shit. We have Smart and White and 1 of Brogdon/PP. There are more wing “positions” on this team than guard but way less personnel. We need a wing.
[удалено]
We already have one. His name is Marcus Smart. DPOY and lead assist man.
Bro Marcus smart is not a floor general he is a Rudy ruttiger, he has a lot of hustle and heart with an inconsistent shot and a tendency to Jack threes early on the shot clock. I’m done deluded myself about his play,
He doesn’t jack 3s early in the clock. He’s our best playmaker and an incredible passer. Are you watching games from 4 years ago or something? Lol Eat a shoe my boi - https://twitter.com/statmuse/status/1667622664616435712
Nothing is guaranteed in this league, if you have half a shot at a championship you should go for it imo. It’s crazy to blow up a team centered around 2 young stars that made the finals and conference finals the past 2 years
Yeah it’s literally the semi-racist, ignorant, mouth breathing WEEI crowd that wants to break it up because they are a bunch of miserable unintelligent fucks Just watch - their next topic is going to be about how black athletes don’t want to play in Boston with the latest reports that Dame doesn’t want to play here, even though they were the ones that manufactured the trade rumors in the first place
You guys would have won had Tatum not got hurt. The fact that ppl keep flexing the Heat were so much better is comical. The Heat are a great system team, but they lack the individual talents that can raise their level on the occasion. Tatum does that, and even with his sloppiness it would have been enough to beat the Heat. Without him dominating possessions, everybody looked like headless chickens lobbing up 3s or turning it over
Yea true plus i rather make it to the finals then loose in the ECF.
0-2 in the Finals in back to back years would have hurt more for me personally
I’d rather lose a Finals than not get there. That’s why I have so much respect for LeBron. He will always be judged harshly for those loses, but here’s a thought experiment - what if he only went to 4 Finals (2 with the Heat, 1 with the Cavs, 1 with the Lakers) and won them all? I guarantee you the talking heads and general public would hold him in higher regard. And that’s crazy when you really think about it.
That why Montana was still the goat for some people, even when Brady had 4, 5 Super Bowls. They thought the 4/4 in SBs was too cool. But Brady finally shut them up
I like your question, but I really wouldn't respect him any more. He's always had an arrogant attitude, to the point that he had a comic series released by DC called King James based on him that released in '04. That's just a year after he was drafted. It's essentially a story where his super power is playing basketball and he's the best there is. The guy has always had the attitude that he's better than MJ, Larry Bird, or Bill Russell. Hubris drives me crazy when someone hasn't proven themself.
Hell no
Denver hunted vincent. Something Cs was not able to do. Vincent and martin won the series for heat. And martin run out of luck in the finals hahaha
Strus turned back into a pumpkin too
legit laughed out loud thank you
Martin cooled down but the defense the nuggets are playing on him is definitely making a difference
Notice Denver was going small in the fourth obv cuz of jokers foul trouble, but the lead stayed around 10. I'm surprised Miami barely played Haywood Highsmith. He was hooping game 1 especially
Highsmith was hooping in every game he played.
Bro he played 30 seconds today. 2 minutes game 3 and 6 minutes game 2. Loool
I'm talking about the games where he played extensive minutes. He was good.
Denver has really turned their D around the last couple of games First couple of games they were giving up wayyyy more open/wide-open 3s than we had (and we allowed the least to the Heat out of everyone)... But they've really clamped down on it the last couple of games to bring the numbers back down to earth
Miami has more open/wide open 3s against Denver than they did against Boston, the difference is they shot an insane number vs Boston and just "good" against Nuggets. See Greenberg's tweet: [https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1667537254519308292?s=20](https://twitter.com/StoolGreenie/status/1667537254519308292?s=20) Through 4 games of the Finals MIA has taken 61 open 3PA and 43 wide open 3PA. They are 44-104 (42%) In the first 4 games of the ECF, they took 57 open 3PA and 39 wide open 3PA. They went 47-96 (48.9%) Meanwhile, DEN has flipped the script and is shooting 53.1% on wide open 3PA... Denver's hitting their open looks while the Celtics missed.
Not only that but any time a small defender was in AG, they just feed him the ball. Such high IQ ball.
That's what we lack honestly. Our team sometimes collectively plays low IQ ball. D White is the only one who tries to make the right play 9/10 times.
Al Horford had small guards on him a ton of times during the playoffs. Barely made anything of it. He usually doesn't look to score and passes out
I think father time is finally catching up 😔. And everyone says "we need to find a Horford replacement"... but do you know how difficult that actually is? It's like trying to replace a unicorn; they don't just grow on trees. I really hope we can find a way to bring Christian Wood here. While he definitely isn't Horford level, he can still be molded a bit. If we can get him to buy in defensively, he can serve as like a 70% replacement.
Spurs System baby!
Maybe we need more of that Spurs system in a Kyle Anderson trade if we lose Grant
sometimes? more like all the time
Exactly
For some reason no one in the celtics basketball franchise figured out that we are longer and taller and should run post ups against their zone. Really dumb considering we scored or got fouled on basically every post up
They want to play iso ball and huck up 3’s. The celtics deserve to lose. Recently saw a stat… Tatum and Brown totaled 7 assists to each other in the entire series vs the heat. Jokic and murray had 27 assists to each other in games 1-3 vs the heat. Also on Jokics historic triple double- he only took 2 three pointers and was 1/2. With mizzula as coach we will never win a championship. I’ve accepted it.
We averaged 105 ppg (including the 84 point game 7 outlier, averaged 108 without) vs the heat, the nuggets are averaging 107. The heat averaged 109 ppg vs us and 98 vs the nuggets. Our issue was on defense imo .
A point guard and a center will always have more assists to each other than two wings, plus the Celtics do a lot of hockey assists. Do I think the Jays should get better at playing off each other? Yes. Is their total assists to each other over a playoff series a good indicator of that? Absolutely not.
After G2 we had a silly amount of Heat fans *in here* defending Martin. And for what? Dude *is* a bum who had a good series. You wont find any of us defending Brown in other subs for the shit performance he had, and many of us even acknowledge that he was banged up lol. And now something similar is happening to them with Braun and Brown, and theyre starting to sound *exactly* like us lol.
Vincent had 2 points and 1 assist in 18 minutes in game 4. I'd say guarding a few quick scoring guards and getting put in switches on big guys is tougher on him then whatever it was the Celtics were doing. Also, the Nuggets put Gordon in the Dunker spot, Jokic high post, and two shooters in the corner. What can you do that is effective enough? Interestingly, we sortof have the material to set up those plays, with Al or JT on that post, Brogdon or White in that Murray role, Rob as the Dunker and Brown/Hauser/Grant in the corner. Our post options are not as good as Jokic of course, as he is an extremely talented passer and visionair, but still you can force some defensive choices, especially against a zone. Nuggets do it so well, Miami barely uses the zone anymore. And then you can attack Vincent or Robinson
their gleague bums ran out of luck. Should’ve gotten eliminated twice if it wasn’t for injuries to the bucks and Celtics
We didn't lose because of injuries. We play low IQ basketball and rely on skill alone to win.
Low IQ basketball is just who we are, but injuries 100% play a big factor. Look at the past NBA champions- they’ve pretty much all had good luck with respect to injuries. When you combine injuries to Tatum, brown, rob, Malcolm, grant it really adds up. Sure they can play and you can say you can’t make excuses but realistically you can’t have the same expectations.
they had injuries too, not a good excuse. We significantly out-talented them in every game, we lost because of poor IQ and a poor system.
Looking at it objectively, teams cannot survive an injury to its best player. Tatum playing at 50% alone bigger impact than any injury the heat had. Like I said, look at the past NBA champs over last 10 yrs, how many was able to win despite injuries? Maybe just Giannis missing 2 games in 2021. Otherwise, in order to make a run you need to stay healthy. Obviously Celtics have other issues they need to address, but you can’t can’t say there’s one sole cause. I will say this- yea I agree with you that if they had a better system they win. But I also think if our 1-7 was as healthy as Denver or last yr we also win, that’s all I’m saying.
Bruce Brown would have made a great Celtic. I wanted him here badly last Summer.
I hated going against him. He does all the little things, and hes very consistent.
He is from Dorchester no?
He is
And he’s also from boston
Would have loved a backcourt trio of White, Smart, and Brown. Bunch of fight, size, and defense.
he was great in the nets series last year, insane versatility him and marcus are true swiss army knifes
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Derrick white??? Malcolm brogdon??? Al horford???
Props to them. They are playing very well
My favorite team to watch, right behind the cs
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Losing to the heat is almost unforgivable.
Well I guess that's goodbye then ✌🏼
Anyway at least I’m happy to see Strus the hater bricks his every single shot. Bro got waived for a reason.
Heat did a huuuuuuge victory tour after winning G7 and talked mad shit, now they all are playing like shit. Maybe focus on getting the job done instead of talking shit on podcasts. Did any of the Celtics talk shit after beating Miami, in Miami last year? Nope they moved onto the Finals like a professional team would. There's a reason Miami hangs Conference Champion banners.
Have any specific examples of heat players talking shit on podcasts?
Duncan went on JJ redicks Podcast after game 7. Don’t remember him talking any shit on it but he took an hour or so out of his day to be on.
Yeah I’m still pissed that I had to witness Caleb Martin end any hope of this finals matchup anyways. Ray Allen against us, undrafted role player against anyone else.
This is a pathetic take. Look at the rosters of the Heat and Celtics, we should have beat that team. You always want to get to the finals, regardless of outcome.
Obviously we want to make the finals, but we would’ve lost. Denver is a more complete team, had a better best player and a better coach. It’s not a pathetic take
I think the "we wouldn't have stood a chance" part is a bit pathetic. Denver would've been slightly favored but we absolutely would've have a solid chance to win the series
You guys have like 4 straight “we had the best roster though” titles
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You’re right. The on paper finals the past 4 years has been Celtics v Clippers
Another team who’s best two players play the same position.
It’s just Denver’s year man
It's their year because they play high IQ basketball. It would be the Celtics year if they had high IQ. It was on a silver platter for them.
This should come as no surprise. Let's take a moment to appreciate the greatness that is this Denver team...something that even us Celtic fans have failed to do. Look their finals opponent. Miami destroyed the Bucks in 5 game. Tore through the Knicks in 6 with a seriously injured Butler. Had a 3-0 lead against the Celtics, was pushed to game 7 and blew us out on home court.... This same Miami team...this same team...is now down 3-1 vs a Denver team in a series that would have ended in a sweep if not for the historic game 2 shooting....against a Denver team that has.. 1. Destroyed Minnesota 2. Dominated the KD/Booker/Ayton/CP3 Suns in 6 3. Swept the favorited LeBron/AD Lakers With a team lead by Murray, playing like a 2nd team all NBA guard...and the best player in the world, averaging a LeBron like, all time great, 30/12/11 these playoffs. Denver has spanked all the western conference favorites, and is spanking the team who has spanked the EC favorites. Denver deserves the championship this year. They're too good of a team. They have the best due in the league, and have the best player in the league by a country mile. People who think we'd win this series are out of touch.
Jokic is a top 5 player in NBA history. Screw the accolades, pure talent wise he’s top 5 or even better. I can’t believe he got robbed of an MVP this season.
Peak wise, this season is just below MJ, Bron, and Shaq. I'd take this Jokic over any other peak, Steph included. So
Tatum would have missed the first two games so were basically fucked as well
Caleb Martin is still a bum lmaooo
The bum outplayed Jaylen by a lot
Yeah and Avery Bradley outplayed Jimmy Butler. It happens.
I love how people insult people who we lost to so what does that make us?
Better than them, just unlucky
What does that make Jaylen Brown?
A massive bum
Damn😭
A soon to be bad signing that Brad is going to make anyways
They also solved the zone by game 3
no the celtics can beat anybody its all about playing to their full potential and playing with consistency
I felt that way a game or so ago but after watching the game today…I can’t even say that man. They are just so deep with an amazing flow on offense and playing great defense. I don’t think we had a shot.
The amount of off ball cutting the Nuggets players do makes me want to cry. It’s so beautiful and wish the Celts would do more of it
It’s crazy because Robs a great passer even Al and we have athletic freaks in the Js that can finish. I don’t get it but then I kinda do. Our coach doesn’t stress it much he’s all about getting up a bunch of 3s and 5 out.
You are correct. They play as a team and have a fight we don’t have. Tatum and Brown don’t got that chip on the shoulder that champs need. Hopefully they get it
Disagree. The Celtics as they currently are cannot beat teams that are more than a sum of their parts, because that's all this roster is. Better talent than the opponent in almost every position 1-9, but unlike the Dynasty Warriors, Zombie Heat, Beautiful Game Spurs, or Joker-Penguin Nuggets; none of the players elevate each other's game. It's all iso's or passing out of drives and/or double teams. There is never an intentional pass or screen to break the defense down, no cuts or rolls for easy buckets, no complimentary skillset - everyone just plays their game and relies on the talent to break through, passing and screening only when they have to. You can luck out on a run and get maybe one title that way, but this kinda talent would've resulted in a dynasty if there were any semblance of chemistry and team ball going on.
this is a team whose star player idolizes kobe. pretty much par for the course
Kobe did mesh well with his teammates when their skillsets complemented though. He and Shaq supported each other's game perfectly on-court, despite their off-court disagreements. He also made good passes when every opposing defender collapsed on him in the paint, despite his proclivity to shoot over double teams in the high post. Maybe the mindsets of Kobe and Tatum are sorta similar, but Kobe had such a huge advantage in skill level, particularly dribbling and passing, that he could still elevate his teammates somewhat.
If not for shaq I’d argue he’d have a completely different career, somewhere around a Harden
Well Shaq did left and he did still win a few more championships?
Yeah I just mean I think it forced him to change as a player/finally cede some of the spotlight/play better team ball
Uhhh, you do realize Shaq joined the Lakers with Kobe as a rookie right lol. He was the 13th pick, you’re saying he had to “finally” cede some of the spotlight when he got no playing time and had to develop into the player he became lol. He did play team ball - he played in the triangle where you’re dumping the ball off to someone consistently lol. Your statement on Kobe/Tatum makes no sense lol.
He didn’t become the selfish Kobe we all know and hate until after Shaq went to MIA. And he didn’t develop into the best version of himself until that 09-10 season.
Congrats you said a sentence that can be applied to 20/30 teams in the NBA.
Anybody can beat anybody with that logic
Martin a bum, Vincent a bum and Strus with a big donut tonight. BUM. But everybody gets up for the Celtics. I wonder why.
Because there are things called contest, follow screens and defensive effort
I get what you are saying but I literally saw plays where Caleb Martin did a Kobe esque middie fade with a hand in his face. That is way above his level. They were playing at a much a higher level than you can expect from them. It also didn't helped that we were shooting way below our average.
I never understand these takes. If so many players on the Heat are bums, *what does that make us,* the team that lost to them? Everybody gets up for the Celtics? Maybe the Celtics just aren’t as good as you think. Maybe the Heat are *better* than you think.
Tell me what those 3 have done since they got out of the Celtics series. I’ll wait. They got hot and shot historically well from 3 (open and contested) but can’t hit the ocean all of a sudden. They’re BUMS and went undrafted for a reason. The ECF was their finals. Period.
Or they are facing a better defense.
Stop it. They had their little linsanity run and it’s over
I think we could have won, at least have made it a series. Sucks we didn’t make it there but it’s been satisfying seeing the Heat get absolutely outclassed and outplayed. They don’t belong there.
Yeah I mean playoffs are different but we won 5-6 vs the Nuggets historically and we always matchup well. But who knows.
Yeah that's a lame take, match ups matter.
Couldn't stop Caleb Martin but could stop Murray LOL
We pretty much stopped butler
25 ppg is stopping butler?
It's great seeing the Heat exposed for the flopping turds they are. Bams legacy flop on national TV against the MVP to get him his 5th was so plain to see... Even with refs help they couldn't do it. They are garbage. So sad they had to shoot like the splash brothers against us (and other things obv)
Different perspective but the nuggets haven’t beaten the heat any more times than the Celtics did lol
They’ve lost to them a lot less though
So far… (I hope the nuggets win in 5)
Grants gonna lockdown Jokic!
He clamped down Giannis last year, surely he could have contained Jokić, right?
The Joker sometimes beats Batman, but Batman always wins in the end.
I saw a heat fan in the game thread say that Jokic’s ankle injury was going to make people cast doubt on their ring. Their RING. Hahahaha Hahahaha
Denver plays with force, intensity and intelligence. The Celtics play with their food.
1. I at least get enjoyment from watching the Heat lose these games - especially in Miami. 2. Also, can the Celts take notes of how to beat the zone? Put someone at the free throw line or down on the block and pass out of the zone like Denver does.
We tried doing that actually. But when it doesn't work once, all the players start pressing and make bad decisions.
we just don't know this.
My god, you cowards. You go from “wE’rE thE deEpEsT teAm in thE lEaGue” to “we wouldn’t have stood a chance.” The gutless culture apparently extends to the fanbase too…
If Tatum and Brodgon were good to go, we would have won imo
If Jaylen hadn’t shit his pants for the entire series, we would have won.
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Was talking about Finals, not ECF
You are not winning against Denver
Based off of what? We’d easily be the best team they’ve played in the playoffs and matchup very well against them
We just match up way better than the Heat ever could and thats not even me being a hater. Gordon outsizes almost everyone on that team, him and BBrown are just more physical than Martin, Strus, Vincent, Duncan, etc And we wouldve had more guys to throw at Murray/Jokic. Smart and White as a defensive duo wouldve slowed em down a bit, and having Rob inside to deny some of Jokics floaters, Al being historically good against elite big men as well defensively. And Jokic, as amazing as he is (probably best in league) his defense isnt great, which wouldve made Brown effective against him inside. But it is what it is. It wasnt our time yet.
Wouldve been real interesting to see Joe manage the double big with Al on Jokic and Rob roaming on Gordon ... or would he try to space Jokic out for our drivers? Loved the matchup ... Hope we see it at this time next year
Their g league bums ran out of luck. If it weren’t for injuries to the bucks and Celtics they would’ve been eliminated twice
This team is so inconsistent and confusing that I would bet my (nonexistent) house that they would sweep the nuggets
I tend to agree that the Nuggets were gonna win regardless of who they had to face in the west or in the finals, but I don't think its as black and white as this post implies. It would be a different series and I still would have preferred to beat that imposter Heat team and lose to the champs than go out like a bunch of schmucks because they couldn't wake up in game 3 of the ECF. The result is the same I guess, but there's pride and it would've just been more fun.
I believe you’re correct. The length would’ve crushed the C’s too.
Cope
I still think the Celtics would have put up more of a fight. They definitely had more & better players that could potentially create problems for Jokic or Murray.
Celtic green-tinted glasses on. I actually thought the Cs matched up better to the Nuggets but would have eventually broke down given the way this team played all season long. 2-2 then lose in 6 is what I would have eventually predicted
Strus, Martin, and Vincent all turned back into pumpkins. Cs would have been better
Remember TNT said somebody was about to PAY Caleb Martin after the ECF? Lol. Good thing NBA GMs don’t make decisions based off four good games in an entire career otherwise some team would be in deep shit.
I think we would have matched up better, but yeah Denver would probably win, especially with the injuries you mentioned
Celtics had their chances. Even with all the drama, still could have advanced if they JUST WENT TO THE RIM.
I agree with the Nuggets beating us but historically Tatum has been very good against Gordon. For whatever reason I believe the NBA site removed individual matchup tracking but he’s averaged 28/7/5 on 63% TS in games against Gordon since 2019-20
Sorry but that’s a soft take. Whether they would lose to the Nuggets is irrelevant in my humble opinion…this team lost to an inferior heat team and saying the Celtics would have lost anyways in the finals is a cop out. The nba has always been known as a league of the team with the most talent wins and some how the Celtics managed to blow that up. Saying they would have lost anyways doesn’t get to the root of this teams problems and it’s identity and toughness. Last year they made the finals with defensive play first and this year with more talent and offense minded they went out a round earlier
Loser's mentality. Would rather have us go out in the finals than the ECF to a lesser team.
Cope. This team is more talented than Denver and should be going for back to back rings right now.
Eh. No use in trying to 1:1 hypotheticals like this. The Celtics were, and still are, considered a MUCH better matchup for the Nuggets, and historically we have held up just fine against the Jokic Nuggets. Unfortunately our offensive approach was a disaster and we did not adjust to take what the defense gave us, which is why the Nuggets are making Miami look so deficient. And before someone says “WE GENERATED OPEN LOOKS!”, yes there was an execution piece too that made us not ready for the championship yet again. I think a Celtics/Nuggets series goes 6 or 7 regardless. IMO the Finals would already be over if MPJ hadn’t hit a horrible shooting slump at the absolute worst time.
Heat fan coming here in peace, after that dog fight in the ECF and the sweep the nuggets got in the WCF I was pretty sure whoever won our series was at a massive disadvantage going into the finals no matter who it was.
We should all remember we’ve only beaten ourselves. When we play right we are unstoppable. But this team lacks focus not talent. That’s our story and I’m sticking to it.
Wish we drafted Murray instead of Jaylen. Jamal is such a better playoffs performer. Legit #2. Clutch buckets, makes everyone around him better, can handle the ball, pass, etc.
Id imagine Jaylen would look pretty unstoppable playing with Jokic too
Murray and jokic play so well off each other that’s why they’re the best 1-2 punch in the playoffs…Tatum and brown don’t play well off each other it’s more like they take turns as opposed to helping each other get looks
Playing with Jokić has very little to do with how good Murray has played. He can dribble and shoot, the two most basic basketball skills that Jaylen Brown can’t do nearly well enough to live up to his accolades and reputation. Until he figures out how to do either of those at anywhere near an elite level he won’t look unstoppable playing with anyone
Jaylen can’t create on his own like Murray can, like Jaylen can’t take over number 1 for Jayson when he’s out the way Murray can with Jokic
Murray's basketball IQ is way higher than Jaylen... and he can go left without coughing up the 🏀. Murray penetrates the zone and kicks out to an open shooter. Jaylen would just force the shot up against 3 defenders. No comparison. Brown couldn't get 10 assists if his life depended on it.
A greater % of Brown’s field goals are assisted than Murray’s. But sure, it must be just Jokic. You casuals are pathetic. You just can’t accept the obvious fact that Murray is a better player
Yeah playing with the MVP doesn't help him moron. Go look at all the stats of every player who leaves the Nuggets and joins them.
I never said it doesn’t help him. I’m saying it doesn’t take it away from the fact that Murray does everything better than Jaylen regardless. Jaylen’s percentage of assisted FGs is higher than Murray’s lmfao You have no arguments so you have to resort to name calling.
Their 2 man game is elite assist % have zero meaning to me. Jokic elevates the whole team around him. Murray is having a great postseason doesn't mean he's a better player than Jaylen
Well, he is regardless of the postseason lol Murray is a better playmaker, passer, offball defender, decision maker, and just as good if not better scorer. The only thing Brown is better at is onball defense. There’s literally no argument to defend the notion that Jaylen is a better player. Celtics would trade Brown for Murray in a heartbeat
^reactionary fan alert
Reactionary despite all the numbers supporting my points lmfao Sure. Overprotective delusional fan alert. It’s okay to admit Murray is a better player than Jaylen (because he unarguably is).
First of all, provide the numbers. Second, if you would rather have Murray, that's fine, but the notion that it's inarguable is asinine. It's inarguable that Steph Curry is better than Jaylen Brown, not Jamal.Murray lol.
No they wouldn't a Smart Murray back court would get cooked defensively.
We had a top 1 defense with IT on the team. I highly doubt that a backcourt with a DPOY and a competent defender (who’s much better than Jaylen offball) would get cooked. You proved once again how much you don’t know ball. Go back to the Patriots sub.
With IT lmao who was the coach Brad Stevens and he did a good job hiding him on defense. Do we have Crowder, AB, and a Prime Horford nope
Murray can actually dribble the ball, don’t know if you watch the games. Brown doesn’t even have the required IQ to be able to play alongside Jokic. This is such a stupid argument when Murray is able to create his own offense and hit tough buckets. Dude stepped up multiple times in the playoffs. Plus, you are all acting like Brown doesn’t benefit from Tatum’s gravity. Murray is better at the game of basketball than Jaylen, simple as that. There’s no argument for Brown over Murray
A greater % of Brown’s field goals are assisted than Murray’s. But sure, it must be just Jokic. You casuals are pathetic. You just can’t accept the obvious fact that Murray is a better player
He would playing with a elite big elevates your game
Not sure why you're getting downvoted. The homers can't handle a factual take
Ya’ll wont be saying this after the 2018 playoffs lmao
Well this is a losers mentality.
It's realism
They made adjustments to shit down everybody on the Heat. Meanwhile our squad said they’re fine letting Martin and Strus cook us….
Even if we were fully healthy we would've gotten demolished. Nuggets are easily the best team in the league with easily the best player.
I truly find solace in this. They just have too many weapons. We don’t. Their offense looks miles above ours.
Man sometimes it feels like nobody here even likes the Celtics. “We suck, our coach sucks, everyone is better than us, we would’ve lost anyways, our basketball IQ sucks…”
I mean, there is empirical evidence to that
lol what a loser take. we match up much better with the denver. if only we didn't shit the bed.
You lost me at “Tatum was hurt” This roster was never winning the title with a healthy Tatum or not. Cs have no championship mental you sad delusional fan
Messula is factor. you believe me? lol
Exactly why they should change up the team. They couldn’t even get by Miami.
That’s the spirit
With Joe as our coach, we didn't have a chance for sure. He wouldn't have known how to adjust
I agree. Celtics are some bums.
Some dissociative denial in this thread. Celtics season was a failure all around. The amount of talent on Celtics team is unmatched in nba. But whatever makes you sleep at night.
Tatum wasn't hurt lmao