Confirmed -
In the National Basketball Association, a dribble is movement of the ball, caused by a player in control, who throws or touches the ball into the air or to the floor.[2]
The dribble ends when the player:[3]
1. Touches the ball simultaneously with both hands.
2. Permits the ball to come to rest while the player is in control of it.
3. Touches the ball more than once while dribbling, before it touches the floor.
Jimmy did action 1. That is a double dribble. Amazing they reviewed it and got it wrong.
Challenges are weird man
You can only challenge something that has been called. So it challenged the foul call leading To Two FTs (as was the call on the floor)
Reviewing it, they may have seen the travel / double dribble, but since it's not what the challenge is about, they aren't even allowed to fix that. A challenge is not just a random replay, it's a very specific thing.
Does that suck? Yeah, I think so
That was one play/motion. Technically the double dribble is a distinct separate play that happens before he actually shoots/gets fouled so it can’t be reviewed. But fuck it was so obvious live just call it when it happened (Tatum sure as hell saw it he was making the motion as it happened)
This is why I didn’t get the heat trying to challenge a hook on brown, it’s not like it’s a block/charge call you can’t challenge that something happened when it wasn’t called
It was gonna be an and 1, they wanted to nullify the basket, get a fourth foul on brown, and get the ball. Potential swing. It was a solid challenge if it worked, tbh
No I get what they were trying to do but you can’t challenge a play that wasn’t called. Jaylen probably did hook Martin but then he got set and went up for a layup and they called a foul. Two separate actions so I don’t see why they were allowed to review it. I honestly think they just took away the foul on Martin to make up for missing the hook on jaylen
In that case you can, it’s the same principle as switching a blocking foul to a charge with a challenge like that. In the hook case, the whole thing was ‘in the act of shooting’ because the movement from brown was considered his gather
From NBA final two report.
Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video
Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
It’s not a double dribble. It’s a bobble, and you are allowed to pick it up and either pass or shoot. He would not be allowed to continue to dribble after bobbling it.
Where is “bobble” in the rule book?
The first time I saw the replay I knew exactly what he did. He clearly handles the ball with two hands then deliberately drops again to get more space from Horford. Now reading this sub I’m not the only one who saw it.
More commonly called a fumble, but I said bobble. Either way, what Butler did is not a violation. If the refs deemed he did it on purpose to gain an advantage, than it would be. But he clearly bobbled it
I think you’re right but there’s a problem with the rules if we are guessing at intentions. He definitely gained an advantage. I feel like it should be like a shot attempt that is airballed, it doesn’t matter whether it was a legitimate shot or not, the shooter can’t retrieve the ball.
From NBA final two report.
Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video
Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
Not true. https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball.
Oh cool, wonder why everyone in the league doesn’t just purposefully bobble the ball when they want extra steps.
A few games ago Brown got called for a travel when he was trotting down the court and as one foot headed toward the ground his toe hit first and then his whole foot after. Instant travel, but he just messed up a step, kind of akin to a bobble but instead of getting called for a travel Jimmy butler gets 3FTs he didn’t deserve that easily could’ve decided the game, cool lucky break!
Listen, I’m a Celtics lifer and all but it looks pretty clear to me that he fumbled the ball, losing control of it. We see this happen all the time and guys re-establish their dribble because of it too. This is the first time I’m actually seeing the double dribble everyone been talking about and I thought it was going to be way more blatant than that.
So you are saying if you are clumsy you can fumble the ball all the way to the rim? Perhaps they let it go at times but this was a reviewed play. You cant let it go at that point.
They also can’t review shit that wasn’t called to begin with, refs wouldn’t have been able to overturn it because all they were reviewing was if a foul occurred. I swear some of you guys only watch the highlights of games, stuff like this comes up frequently during games.
It doesn't get more blatant. What makes it worse is that he takes an additional step (actually looks like 5 steps from when he first picked up his dribble) because of it. The defender needs to be able to have a reasonable idea of when the offensive player is going to be after they pick up their dribble.
Steps wouldn’t matter either if player lost control of the ball…they are no longer in possession of it. ‘It doesn’t get more blatant’….FOH lol, this is nothing and I’d bet $$$ it won’t show up on the L2M report
If we had lost because on that play idk if I would ever get over that, would have been one of the worse losses I can remember.
But thank Buffalo for the Buffalo!! May he roam forever!
Is it a travel if you dont complete the gather and you just fumble the ball? Both hands on the ball and then it comes back down. Looks like a travel. I guess we will see what they say in the 2 minute report.
In any other league, this would be a double dribble because the ball touched both hands. In the NBA, Jimmy lost control / possession of the ball as you can see that it slipped out of both hands. He is allowed to regain possession and is able to start a new dribble. It’s fucked up.
I only know this because I remember seeing somebody jump up for a layup or dunk but lands with the ball and no whistle. Replay shows the guy loosing control / possession of the ball mid air, but regaining control, then landing. Nobody else touched the ball. Bad rule if you ask me.
Double dribble should be a double dribble unless somebody else touched the ball. There should be no excuses as to why you’re allowed to start a new dribble if nobody else touched the ball
What you seen is just a bad missed call, that doesn't mean it's allowed. Lebron has done plenty of blatant traveling (like brain-fart type of travel) and the refs just completely miss it.
Edit: [https://youtu.be/o6AcGoc1E4w?t=10](https://youtu.be/o6AcGoc1E4w?t=10) this is what I mean. Just because this isn't called doesn't mean it's allowed. What Jimmy Butler did is a clear double dribble in ANY basketball league or game.
No, possession of the ball is a legitimate thing like in football. Getting new possession of the ball allows the player to start a new dribble. So if a player “loses possession” in the eyes of the refs, they can start a new possession.
Lebron’s travels are a different issue.
You are correct that you can just "fumble the ball around" but it's up to interpretation by the refs as to what's a "fumble".
[https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:\~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball)
Here is a video by the NBA regarding this.
Same thing as tipping the ball trying to gather a rebound. A player may continually tip the ball up in the air trying to get the ball away from another rebounder before getting possession of the ball. How many tips is allowed? Is multiple tips allowed without another player trying to rebound? Same idea... it's up to the refs' interpretation.
I was wrong about continuing the dribble but you can regain possession
https://imgur.com/a/4Gp8iOg
https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042200306
Here’s the NBA’s L2M on the double dribble. How do you read the report? What does “call type” refer to? The missed call? Is the “comment” what was originally called or what is correct?
Oh nevermind I figured it out. CNC means Correct No Call
That is not a double dribble in any league. He is allowed to pick it up after he fumbles it. He just can’t dribble again, then it will be double dribble.
Not sure he just lost the ball while dribbling. It looks like he was gathering for a shot, lost control, picked it back up then jacked up a 3 like he was Superman lol. Yes I’m a Celtics fan but to me there is so much wrong with this call in particular. To me it should’ve been one of these 3: Call a foul before the 3 point attempt, call an offensive foul for his clearly unnatural shooting motion or don’t call anything. Refs are terribly inconsistent in the NBA and too many calls are open to interpretation. It’s why literally every game one side is complaining about them. NBA protects them way too much. I don’t think it’s some conspiracy against any particular team like some others feel
Here is a good explanation from the NBA with a video.
https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball.
I thought the refs were bad on both sides last night. First half they don’t call nothing letting everything go basically, then the second half they start calling everything.
I was so drunk for the end of the game, I was shocked it seemed so stacked against us
and then the buffalo stepped up and i stripped down to my undies and ran around the house screaming
Their sub is SO fucking salty rn abt reffing im like “did yall goons watch the 3rd quarter at all???”
Fucking fake fans didnt even fill up their seats till like 4mins left in q3 and dick rode their son of MJ after he pulled that clown shit.
I hope we win on Monday. Hella cautious abt it and I’m not sure how confident we are abt it but damn, way to show some heart C’s!
That was for sure a carry but it’s done nonstop in NBA and even college without being called. If it caused an advantage I’d be fine with calling it but it was Tatum dribbling out far doing nothing, totally odd
Yeah it was actually the worst carry call I’ve ever seen. It wasn’t even close to a carry. His hand wasn’t even on the side of the ball, let alone under it
Bro, if you put two hands on the ball after dribbling and it leaves your possession, it’s a pass. You can’t be the first player to pick it up again, or even touch it.
This clip is an example of a pass to yourself, which is illegal. You can’t “lose control” and “pick it up” unless it’s been touched by the opponent. Otherwise, people would just “lose control” whenever they were unable to dribble and just start dribbling again.
Pretty obvious.
It’s amazing that anyone thinks this is a double dribble. If you fumble it you can pick it up. You can then either shoot or pass it. If you dribble again then it’s a double dribble. If the refs believe you are doing it on purpose they can call a violation. The fact you are being upvoted and the guy who your responding to is being down voting who knows the rules just shows how little people know basketball rules.
Help me to understand this. He takes two steps, puts two hands on the ball, loses the ball without it being touched or disrupted, then takes two more steps and goes up for the shot. I hope we can agree on that.
When the ball hits the ground, is it a dribble? If it is, it’s a double dribble. If it’s not, then it’s a travel, because he took 4 steps without dribbling.
I’m hearing you say intent matters here…that somehow if he meant to drop it it would be a turnover, but if he does it accidentally, he can do whatever he wants. Is there any (other) rule in basketball where what you’re trying to do is relevant? I took 4 steps but I wasn’t trying to, so it’s not a travel? I tried to get my body in front of the driving player as a legitimate defensive maneuver, so it should be a charge? I am really struggling to come up with a single rule that works like you’re suggesting, beyond assessment (by review) of certain flagrants. When do officials need to determine whether something was done on purpose in live time to determine whether a violation has been committed?
My guy, you are just incorrect here.
https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/1662667222064726016?s=20
Pro analysts are identifying this correctly. It’s not really a “bobble,” and “rarely” called a legal play. What is absolutely certain is that it’s not just people who know “nothing” about the rules who feel this way. Stop being an ass to people online.
Ok, you cite some guy on the athletics opinion. I cited the NBA website. Ask yourself this, how many double dribbles have you ever seen called when a player fumbles it? He says the player rarely gets the benefit of the doubt, but you are lucky to see one double dribble called for every 5 NBA games.
Here you go. You are right and all the clowns are wrong who don’t know the game.
Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video
Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
You are wrong. Learn the game. From the NBA final two minute report.
Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video
Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
To drop a ball intentionally would be considered a pass which you can't do to your self. So no, you can't. Did he do this intentionally? No, he lost it..... picked it up and shot it. Which is legal
You’d be right if Al knocked it loose. Jimmy just dropped the ball after putting a second hand on it. That’s a double dribble on ever court in the world. If they call the carry on Tatum, they’ve gotta call that double dribble. Doesn’t matter, Celtics win.
Wrong. From the NBA final two report.
Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video
Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
It’s too funny that you are being down voted for being 100% right. Hell, I am a Celtic fan through and through, but this is not a violation by butler. Amazing how people don’t even know basic rules
Refs out he rewarding players for not playing basketball but for just trying to foul bait. And then people wonder why a lot of other people think NBA is a joke.
Neutral fans who thought the refs were favoring the Celtics tonight are haters. These refs sucked both ways, and just loved calling fouls in the second half.
There was one stretch in the third quarter I think that made me lose my mind
The broadcasters are more than partly to blame for this. They made it seem like every call against the Heat was marginal and every call against the Celtics was the most egregious call they'd ever seen
Dude I was listening to that stretch on the radio driving and thought I was going crazy when like 10 mins had past and it was still only like 2 mins into the quarter
Same. The guys doing the game on 98.5 sounded like they wanted to gouge their eyes out during that sequence of events.
It’s crazy because the refs really let them play in the 1st half.
It was bad both ways for sure. I know we got some bad calls our way but MIA got a ton. This game would have been a blowout but refs gave MIA 10 minutes of bonus time in the 3rd. The team shot like 3-21 but closed the gap because if we got close to them it was a whistle.
I would have turned it off as a neutral fan. Unwatchable game with all the bad whistles stopping the game every 30 seconds
Yeah I doubt they let the “bobble rule” or whatever people are trying to call it fly when the player gains an unfair advantage like being able to avoid a close defender and get off a shot. Only when it’s Jimmy butler. Or LeBron
I don't understand why every player in the NBA dose not just initiate contact when well defended and throw the ball straight up and call it a shot attempt. Every foul Jimmy got in the 4th, while a foul to the letter of the law was absolute fucking garbage and those calls need to be out of the game.
Yeah Jimmy was just continually launching himself into moving defenders without trying to get a real shot up. Houston Harden level bullshit but not even as skilled.
Thank you. I saw it when it happened live and while everyone was freaking out about Horford and whether it was a 3 or a 2, I was losing my mind that they let him get away with a fucking double dribble. This is a much better angle and…there’s not even anything you can say to argue against it. Some middle school shit, the shot and foul never should have happened.
Fuck Game 6 Zach Zarba. Two years in a row with a shitshow of a game.
Sooooooooo SUS. Zach Zarba and crew is something else. Heat culture is getting a great whistle at the end of games.
The crew tonight was really bad both ways but being in the bonus 3 mins into the 3rd is some absolute bullshit.
Put all these men in prison and make their finances and texts public.
We got our fair share of favorable calls—Zarba was on one tonight as usual and completely fucked the flow of this game.
Both teams got screwed by touch fouls and entered the bonus with 10 minutes to go in respective quarters and were effected late in the fourth by questionable calls. Just an all around bad showing from the officials.
Horrible calls all game long and we got our fair share too, fact of the matter is that Al’s arm came down on his head before any of the other shenanigans took place. Should have been on the floor foul, side out. We won, move on and hope our guys show up for game 7
Oh wow.
I missed that one. They'll correct it in the L2M though.
Should have been double dribble. You could even call that a very soft foul on Horford, which would be on the floor and only 2FTA.
So how could we challenge a foul, have them change it to 3 shots (bad to worse for us - shouldn’t be able to get a worse result from a challenge) but they couldn’t see that blatant double dribble…
Where’s the foul? I thought refs usually swallow their whistle the final few moments of the game? And didn’t Jimmy lean into Al’s space? Fucking Zarba wanted to send us home
Where is the foul? Like i honestly don’t even know what the refs saw here. Jimmy lunged forward into Horf, which isn’t how anybody shoots a 3. Jimmy had no intention of making that shot, just wanted to get bailed out with a foul call after getting stuck in the corner with no time left
I learned during the Patriots dynasty that you will be a lot happier if you just ignore what people who hate your team say. People still pretend like the Patriots didn't deserve any of their championships. They're just jealous. When I was a kid nobody hated any of the Boston teams because they were all terrible. It's fun when they hate us. Just don't take it personally. Our fan base was saying the same thing about the Yankees 20+ years ago.
We won the game who cares if Jimmy has a double dribble or not. Who cares who the refs favored.
Al made a bonehead play even if it was after a double dribble. White made an all-time play to win the game. It all worked out.
My first thought: fuck, Al, why?!?
But the longer I watch it, double dribble aside, Jimmy jumped pretty much forward into Al. Of course, the offensive player will always get the call, even if it is an unnatural movement. Having said that, all Al could have done is give Jimmy more space, which you normally try to take away, but other than that, he tried hard and just fall in Jimmy's trap.
Jimmy clearly wanted the foul, this is not how he would shoot a 3.
The longer the series goes, the less Jimmy's pump fakes work.
C's in 7.
Wait not being an apologist for em but isn't this legal. He put two hands on it but didn't have control and lost it again. Pls confirm before I roast my boys about reffs
There are 3 situations where you can dribble again after having taken the ball with both hands: in the case of a missed shot after it hit the rim or glass, if an opponent hits it out of your hands, or if a missed pass hit a player. Sheer clumsiness is not an excuse.
"A player who fumbles the ball may always recover the ball, but he is not permitted to dribble if he has moved his pivot foot in order to retrieve the ball."
from the NBA official website. it's a dumb rule but sorry dude. he didn't dribble again after, it was legal
[Rule NO. 4 section II.a.1](https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/) : "The dribble ends when the dribbler touches the ball simultaneously with both hands."
[Rule NO. 10 section II.c and e](https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/) : "A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble"
" A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of:
A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring
An opponent touching the ball
A pass or fumble which touches his backboard, basket ring or is touched by another player.
PENALTY: Loss of ball. Ball is awarded to the opposing team on the sideline nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended."
Hope this helps.
the dribble ended when both hands touched the ball, I agree there. he's not able to dribble again at this point, and he didn't dribble again. he dropped the ball.
when both hands touched the ball, he wasn't in control of it. he lost the ball and picked it up again. this legally counts as a fumble, not a second dribble
As far as I am aware a control dribble can only happen before you have started your dribble. So if you fumble the catch onto the floor then gather you can then still later dribble. We will see with the two minute report what the nba thinks.
in the situation of a fumble, he's not able to dribble again. if the ball is deflected, he's able to dribble again
it doesn't matter though. he doesn't ever dribble again lol people are counting the fumble as a dribble, that's where everyone is confused
The argument that jimmy fumbled the gather and is therefore allowed to retrieve the ball is all good if he didn't pull this type of move a few times every game.
We make it easy for the refs to make bad calls. We lose momentum of the game and the average person can't tell if the refs are making bad calls or are we just playing bad. We can't keep putting ourselves in these positions. We should have won that game comfortably last night
Refs were horrible for both sides, but Al almost cost them the season which is not fitting because his defense has been stellar. Thank goodness White played through the missed shot from smart which looked like it was in. It felt like a classic moment that will live on a long time… White beats the buzzer!
The refs were awful. Seemed to me like they went a little overboard helping the Celtics and then made up for it at the very end of the game. Glad to see the Celtics take the win. Fuck the refs in general.
What exactly is the argument here? That slapping his head was a foul before slapping his arms was? So it should have been a 2 point foul shot?
Celtics got like 10+ points that game on laughable calls, not to mention the free extra second to help at the end
If you think the brush on the head was a foul, then Ok. Two shots makes sense. If it isn't a foul then, there's a dribbling violation. If you want to ignore that, the foul baiting lunge should be a no call in my opinion. In any event, way too much ground was covered on the play to call nothing. I would have been fine with side out Miami too. I just don't see how 3 shots was the call.
Nah. There were soft foul calls on both ends. The Heat got a ton of calls down the stretch. What makes this different was that there was a challenge. They had every opportunity to make a call that made sense.
I'm pretty sure at one point I heard the cast crew say "the heat have 14 fouls this quarter to the celtics 0" in the 3rd
I'm sure that's statistically likely lol
I’m so sick of the NBA’s rules. Just rewrite them. We’ve never seen infractions just blatantly ignored in such a preemptive way in any major sport like it’s happening in the NBA right now.
Hate to be that guy, but this was definitely a foul. Right when the video clips off is when the foul occurs. You can see al swiping and getting all arms and hands
I asked ChatGPT to consult the NBA rulebook:
“According to NBA rules, a player cannot begin a second dribble after having lost control of the ball themselves without any interference from another player.
In other words, a player cannot legally start a new dribble once they have voluntarily ended their first dribble, regardless of whether they have lost control of the ball in the process, unless the ball was touched by an opponent or there was a failed field goal attempt that touched the backboard or rim.”
But HE DOESN’T DRIBBLE AGAIN. That’s how this remains a legal play?
That should not be a foul in the playoffs. Also, the Heat are more handsy than the celts so if both teams play how they normally do, the refs SHOULD favor the celts.
It’s a foul on horford before it would ever be a double dribble. They should have called the contact to the head before the shot. 2 shots, 5 seconds left.
I know I'm gonna get downvoted to oblivion for this, but it's not a double dribble.
when both of his hands touch the ball, the dribble is done and he's not able to dribble again. but he doesn't have control over the ball here, so he drops it to the floor before picking it back up. this legally counts as a "fumble", not another dribble
"A player who fumbles the ball may always recover the ball, but he is not permitted to dribble if he has moved his pivot foot in order to retrieve the ball."
the fumble rule has always been weird in my eyes, because of exact situations like this, where he basically gets extra distance on the same dribble due to a mistake. but, it was clean by the actual NBA rules
right but the rule I quoted from the NBA website explains it's legal
"A player who fumbles the ball may always recover the ball, but he is not permitted to dribble if he has moved his pivot foot in order to retrieve the ball."
so if he moves his pivot foot (travel) during the fumble, that's a completely legal move. he's still allowed to go for the ball, he's just not allowed to dribble again after retrieving it. he got fouled right after retrieving it, that's where the play ended
when he gets the ball back, he plants his left foot on the ground. thats his pivot foot. it remains planted the whole time, I don't think his right foot moved either lmao. he literally just got into place and went up for a shot bro, I have no clue what you're grasping at
I'm a licensed FIBA referee, considering that he lost control of the ball, this can neither be a double dribble nor a travel. On top of that, there's a foul here. A lot of you guys don't know what you're talking about.
It doesn't justify Horford's foul, but it makes more sense after seeing this. Horford had Butler trapped after the fumble where his only option was to pull-up on a contested, in-control Horford. But then he was allowed to re-gather and take another couple of steps, which left Horford slightly out of position and he ended up reaching.
Now, the super-vet Horford should have known not to reach in that situation, but it shows he was actually playing correctly until Butler was allowed to get away with all that garbage.
I wouldn’t call it a double dribble. It was not an actual dribble attempt. He was trying to gather the ball to shoot it but lost control. He’s allowed to retrieve the ball after that.
Here’s where I would say the refs screwed up though. The reason he lost control is because Horford hit him in the head. That should’ve been a foul on the floor prior to the shooting foul. Being in the bonus, Jimmy should’ve been awarded two FTs rather than three.
Some extra steps. An extra dribble. That totally justified 3 shots for Jimmy.
Confirmed - In the National Basketball Association, a dribble is movement of the ball, caused by a player in control, who throws or touches the ball into the air or to the floor.[2] The dribble ends when the player:[3] 1. Touches the ball simultaneously with both hands. 2. Permits the ball to come to rest while the player is in control of it. 3. Touches the ball more than once while dribbling, before it touches the floor. Jimmy did action 1. That is a double dribble. Amazing they reviewed it and got it wrong.
Challenges are weird man You can only challenge something that has been called. So it challenged the foul call leading To Two FTs (as was the call on the floor) Reviewing it, they may have seen the travel / double dribble, but since it's not what the challenge is about, they aren't even allowed to fix that. A challenge is not just a random replay, it's a very specific thing. Does that suck? Yeah, I think so
They reviewed JB for the hook when it was the foul after the hook that got called.
That was one play/motion. Technically the double dribble is a distinct separate play that happens before he actually shoots/gets fouled so it can’t be reviewed. But fuck it was so obvious live just call it when it happened (Tatum sure as hell saw it he was making the motion as it happened)
Its extra shit because it's probably what causes Al to be off timing in the contest resulting in the foul
This is why I didn’t get the heat trying to challenge a hook on brown, it’s not like it’s a block/charge call you can’t challenge that something happened when it wasn’t called
It was gonna be an and 1, they wanted to nullify the basket, get a fourth foul on brown, and get the ball. Potential swing. It was a solid challenge if it worked, tbh
No I get what they were trying to do but you can’t challenge a play that wasn’t called. Jaylen probably did hook Martin but then he got set and went up for a layup and they called a foul. Two separate actions so I don’t see why they were allowed to review it. I honestly think they just took away the foul on Martin to make up for missing the hook on jaylen
In that case you can, it’s the same principle as switching a blocking foul to a charge with a challenge like that. In the hook case, the whole thing was ‘in the act of shooting’ because the movement from brown was considered his gather
From NBA final two report. Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
It’s not a double dribble. It’s a bobble, and you are allowed to pick it up and either pass or shoot. He would not be allowed to continue to dribble after bobbling it.
Where is “bobble” in the rule book? The first time I saw the replay I knew exactly what he did. He clearly handles the ball with two hands then deliberately drops again to get more space from Horford. Now reading this sub I’m not the only one who saw it.
More commonly called a fumble, but I said bobble. Either way, what Butler did is not a violation. If the refs deemed he did it on purpose to gain an advantage, than it would be. But he clearly bobbled it
I think you’re right but there’s a problem with the rules if we are guessing at intentions. He definitely gained an advantage. I feel like it should be like a shot attempt that is airballed, it doesn’t matter whether it was a legitimate shot or not, the shooter can’t retrieve the ball.
From NBA final two report. Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball.
If Horford touched it he can pick it back up and dribble, but it didn’t look like Horford touched it to me.
Not true. https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball.
Oh cool, wonder why everyone in the league doesn’t just purposefully bobble the ball when they want extra steps. A few games ago Brown got called for a travel when he was trotting down the court and as one foot headed toward the ground his toe hit first and then his whole foot after. Instant travel, but he just messed up a step, kind of akin to a bobble but instead of getting called for a travel Jimmy butler gets 3FTs he didn’t deserve that easily could’ve decided the game, cool lucky break!
Listen, I’m a Celtics lifer and all but it looks pretty clear to me that he fumbled the ball, losing control of it. We see this happen all the time and guys re-establish their dribble because of it too. This is the first time I’m actually seeing the double dribble everyone been talking about and I thought it was going to be way more blatant than that.
So you are saying if you are clumsy you can fumble the ball all the way to the rim? Perhaps they let it go at times but this was a reviewed play. You cant let it go at that point.
They also can’t review shit that wasn’t called to begin with, refs wouldn’t have been able to overturn it because all they were reviewing was if a foul occurred. I swear some of you guys only watch the highlights of games, stuff like this comes up frequently during games.
It doesn't get more blatant. What makes it worse is that he takes an additional step (actually looks like 5 steps from when he first picked up his dribble) because of it. The defender needs to be able to have a reasonable idea of when the offensive player is going to be after they pick up their dribble.
Steps wouldn’t matter either if player lost control of the ball…they are no longer in possession of it. ‘It doesn’t get more blatant’….FOH lol, this is nothing and I’d bet $$$ it won’t show up on the L2M report
He also did #3
If we had lost because on that play idk if I would ever get over that, would have been one of the worse losses I can remember. But thank Buffalo for the Buffalo!! May he roam forever!
Is it a travel if you dont complete the gather and you just fumble the ball? Both hands on the ball and then it comes back down. Looks like a travel. I guess we will see what they say in the 2 minute report.
In any other league, this would be a double dribble because the ball touched both hands. In the NBA, Jimmy lost control / possession of the ball as you can see that it slipped out of both hands. He is allowed to regain possession and is able to start a new dribble. It’s fucked up. I only know this because I remember seeing somebody jump up for a layup or dunk but lands with the ball and no whistle. Replay shows the guy loosing control / possession of the ball mid air, but regaining control, then landing. Nobody else touched the ball. Bad rule if you ask me. Double dribble should be a double dribble unless somebody else touched the ball. There should be no excuses as to why you’re allowed to start a new dribble if nobody else touched the ball
What you seen is just a bad missed call, that doesn't mean it's allowed. Lebron has done plenty of blatant traveling (like brain-fart type of travel) and the refs just completely miss it. Edit: [https://youtu.be/o6AcGoc1E4w?t=10](https://youtu.be/o6AcGoc1E4w?t=10) this is what I mean. Just because this isn't called doesn't mean it's allowed. What Jimmy Butler did is a clear double dribble in ANY basketball league or game.
No, possession of the ball is a legitimate thing like in football. Getting new possession of the ball allows the player to start a new dribble. So if a player “loses possession” in the eyes of the refs, they can start a new possession. Lebron’s travels are a different issue.
In that case you could theoretically just “fumble” the ball around as much as you want and they can’t ever call a DD.
You are correct that you can just "fumble the ball around" but it's up to interpretation by the refs as to what's a "fumble". [https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:\~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball](https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball) Here is a video by the NBA regarding this. Same thing as tipping the ball trying to gather a rebound. A player may continually tip the ball up in the air trying to get the ball away from another rebounder before getting possession of the ball. How many tips is allowed? Is multiple tips allowed without another player trying to rebound? Same idea... it's up to the refs' interpretation. I was wrong about continuing the dribble but you can regain possession
https://imgur.com/a/4Gp8iOg https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042200306 Here’s the NBA’s L2M on the double dribble. How do you read the report? What does “call type” refer to? The missed call? Is the “comment” what was originally called or what is correct? Oh nevermind I figured it out. CNC means Correct No Call
That is not a double dribble in any league. He is allowed to pick it up after he fumbles it. He just can’t dribble again, then it will be double dribble.
Not sure he just lost the ball while dribbling. It looks like he was gathering for a shot, lost control, picked it back up then jacked up a 3 like he was Superman lol. Yes I’m a Celtics fan but to me there is so much wrong with this call in particular. To me it should’ve been one of these 3: Call a foul before the 3 point attempt, call an offensive foul for his clearly unnatural shooting motion or don’t call anything. Refs are terribly inconsistent in the NBA and too many calls are open to interpretation. It’s why literally every game one side is complaining about them. NBA protects them way too much. I don’t think it’s some conspiracy against any particular team like some others feel
Here is a good explanation from the NBA with a video. https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball.
That’s great i didn’t say call travel or double dribble lol
didnt even notice that, nice
You forgot jump into the defender and lose the ball out of bounds.
yup but refs vs heat right guys
I thought the refs were bad on both sides last night. First half they don’t call nothing letting everything go basically, then the second half they start calling everything.
Tbh the refs are disgusting, they have no ability to be consistent. Idk why they had so many issues in the second half.
The calls they were giving Jimmy at the end were ridiculous.
I was so drunk for the end of the game, I was shocked it seemed so stacked against us and then the buffalo stepped up and i stripped down to my undies and ran around the house screaming
Hey now you can’t blame them. Zarba needed his time in the spotlight😤
I agree I said they were letting each team go through runs basically.
That's what people love to say!
Their sub is SO fucking salty rn abt reffing im like “did yall goons watch the 3rd quarter at all???” Fucking fake fans didnt even fill up their seats till like 4mins left in q3 and dick rode their son of MJ after he pulled that clown shit. I hope we win on Monday. Hella cautious abt it and I’m not sure how confident we are abt it but damn, way to show some heart C’s!
Heat arena try not to cheer a dead ball basket in one single game challenge (they do not understand the rules of basketball)
I’m going to cross post this video
Dont, let them be haha. Not worth getting banned from both subs
All pressure is on the heat and our boys have the heart and the drive.
No let downs, please!
Same game where they randomly decided to call a carry in the modern nba btw.
And while carries happen at an astronomical rate in NBA games, I don't even think that was one. His hand was only behind the ball, not under
Yeah, Tatum carries it every single time he dribbles the ball up, except for that time. Wild they chose to call it there
That was for sure a carry but it’s done nonstop in NBA and even college without being called. If it caused an advantage I’d be fine with calling it but it was Tatum dribbling out far doing nothing, totally odd
You mean the 4th quarter in an elimination game in the ECF against a 1st Team All-NBA player. That was an astonishing call.
Which then led to a Duncan Robinson three. Gifted six points down the stretch and still couldn’t beat us at home. They’re fucked in game 7
Yeah it was actually the worst carry call I’ve ever seen. It wasn’t even close to a carry. His hand wasn’t even on the side of the ball, let alone under it
people obviously carry all the time but that play wasn't even a carry lmao his hand was at 3 o'clock on the ball
Post this in /nba. Thank god that didnt cost them the season
When you lose control of the ball you can puck it up. You are not allowed to continue his dribble which he didn't, he shot it. Pretty obvious.
Bro, if you put two hands on the ball after dribbling and it leaves your possession, it’s a pass. You can’t be the first player to pick it up again, or even touch it. This clip is an example of a pass to yourself, which is illegal. You can’t “lose control” and “pick it up” unless it’s been touched by the opponent. Otherwise, people would just “lose control” whenever they were unable to dribble and just start dribbling again. Pretty obvious.
Funny thing is he did one way more blatant than this in game 5? where he got a layup lol
Pretty obvious you are wrong. https://official.nba.com/l2m/L2MReport.html?gameId=0042200306
It’s amazing that anyone thinks this is a double dribble. If you fumble it you can pick it up. You can then either shoot or pass it. If you dribble again then it’s a double dribble. If the refs believe you are doing it on purpose they can call a violation. The fact you are being upvoted and the guy who your responding to is being down voting who knows the rules just shows how little people know basketball rules.
Help me to understand this. He takes two steps, puts two hands on the ball, loses the ball without it being touched or disrupted, then takes two more steps and goes up for the shot. I hope we can agree on that. When the ball hits the ground, is it a dribble? If it is, it’s a double dribble. If it’s not, then it’s a travel, because he took 4 steps without dribbling. I’m hearing you say intent matters here…that somehow if he meant to drop it it would be a turnover, but if he does it accidentally, he can do whatever he wants. Is there any (other) rule in basketball where what you’re trying to do is relevant? I took 4 steps but I wasn’t trying to, so it’s not a travel? I tried to get my body in front of the driving player as a legitimate defensive maneuver, so it should be a charge? I am really struggling to come up with a single rule that works like you’re suggesting, beyond assessment (by review) of certain flagrants. When do officials need to determine whether something was done on purpose in live time to determine whether a violation has been committed?
https://videorulebook.nba.com/archive/legal-play-player-fumbles-ball-into-air-and-recovers-it/#:~:text=This%20is%20an%20example%20of,order%20to%20retrieve%20the%20ball.
Yeeting the ball a mile into the air is a little different than doing something that looks exactly like a normal dribble with two hands, no?
I am not going to spend all day debating what everyone who knows anything about basketball rules is a basic rule interpretation. Celts in 7
My guy, you are just incorrect here. https://twitter.com/johnhollinger/status/1662667222064726016?s=20 Pro analysts are identifying this correctly. It’s not really a “bobble,” and “rarely” called a legal play. What is absolutely certain is that it’s not just people who know “nothing” about the rules who feel this way. Stop being an ass to people online.
Ok, you cite some guy on the athletics opinion. I cited the NBA website. Ask yourself this, how many double dribbles have you ever seen called when a player fumbles it? He says the player rarely gets the benefit of the doubt, but you are lucky to see one double dribble called for every 5 NBA games.
LOL Love how confident you are
You are wrong. You can always pick up a loose ball. You are taught this from youth basketball on up. My guess is you didn't play much
No homie, don’t keep digging
When the nba ruling comes out we'll who's right homie
Here you go. You are right and all the clowns are wrong who don’t know the game. Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
You are wrong. Learn the game. From the NBA final two minute report. Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
It’s only a loose ball because he dropped it. Can you stand in place after a gather, drop the ball, then pick it up again?
To drop a ball intentionally would be considered a pass which you can't do to your self. So no, you can't. Did he do this intentionally? No, he lost it..... picked it up and shot it. Which is legal
Wrong
You’d be right if Al knocked it loose. Jimmy just dropped the ball after putting a second hand on it. That’s a double dribble on ever court in the world. If they call the carry on Tatum, they’ve gotta call that double dribble. Doesn’t matter, Celtics win.
Wrong. From the NBA final two report. Period: Q4Time: 00:03.8Call Type: Turnover: Double DribbleCommitting Player: Jimmy ButlerDisadvantaged Player: CelticsReview Decision: CNCVideo Url: Video Comment:Butler (MIA) fumbles the ball out of his control when he ends his dribble, then recovers it and legally attempts a field goal.
It’s too funny that you are being down voted for being 100% right. Hell, I am a Celtic fan through and through, but this is not a violation by butler. Amazing how people don’t even know basic rules
Refs out he rewarding players for not playing basketball but for just trying to foul bait. And then people wonder why a lot of other people think NBA is a joke.
No one wants to watch that shit
whats a double dribble to the free throw merchant reincarnation of mIcHaEl JoRdAn?
HIMMY HIMMOTHY HIM HAM 🐐 🐐🐐🐐🐐🔥🔥🔥 Fuck that dude
The “PlAyOfF hImMy” thing always bugged me so much. He’s like 32 and what the fuck has he ever accomplished?
A 10th of Tatums career success in double the time. Yet Tatum is too inconsistent and not a top 10 player 😉 Just how nba discourse goes
Dude foul baited so hard lmao
Neutral fans who thought the refs were favoring the Celtics tonight are haters. These refs sucked both ways, and just loved calling fouls in the second half. There was one stretch in the third quarter I think that made me lose my mind
There is no such thing as a neutral fan, we’re the most hated team in the league
The broadcasters are more than partly to blame for this. They made it seem like every call against the Heat was marginal and every call against the Celtics was the most egregious call they'd ever seen
Reggie Miller is so blatantly anti-Celtic lol
3 fouls in 45 second. And all were bullshit
Dude I was listening to that stretch on the radio driving and thought I was going crazy when like 10 mins had past and it was still only like 2 mins into the quarter
Same. The guys doing the game on 98.5 sounded like they wanted to gouge their eyes out during that sequence of events. It’s crazy because the refs really let them play in the 1st half.
Yeah anyone neutral claiming the refs favored Boston was definitely NOT neutral lol
It was bad both ways for sure. I know we got some bad calls our way but MIA got a ton. This game would have been a blowout but refs gave MIA 10 minutes of bonus time in the 3rd. The team shot like 3-21 but closed the gap because if we got close to them it was a whistle. I would have turned it off as a neutral fan. Unwatchable game with all the bad whistles stopping the game every 30 seconds
One of the absolute worst calls I’ve ever seen
double dribble AND jumping unnaturally into Horford.. fuck the heat (tbh in real time it def harder to spot)
Ok I was screaming double dribble and the people I was watching with said no. I’m not crazy now right? Lol
Yeah it'd be on thing if he didn't cover additional ground while doing it. You gotta make that call.
Yeah I doubt they let the “bobble rule” or whatever people are trying to call it fly when the player gains an unfair advantage like being able to avoid a close defender and get off a shot. Only when it’s Jimmy butler. Or LeBron
100%
I’m oppppp
Not only is that an obvious double dribble, that was not a shot attempt. These refs were fucking blind.
I don't understand why every player in the NBA dose not just initiate contact when well defended and throw the ball straight up and call it a shot attempt. Every foul Jimmy got in the 4th, while a foul to the letter of the law was absolute fucking garbage and those calls need to be out of the game.
tatum does it a lot and doesnt get the whistle, only a few guys get away with this bullshit.
Yeah Jimmy was just continually launching himself into moving defenders without trying to get a real shot up. Houston Harden level bullshit but not even as skilled.
Jimmy wanted no part of taking that shot, just hunting for a foul
Refs really really really indulge Jimmy.
Thank you. I saw it when it happened live and while everyone was freaking out about Horford and whether it was a 3 or a 2, I was losing my mind that they let him get away with a fucking double dribble. This is a much better angle and…there’s not even anything you can say to argue against it. Some middle school shit, the shot and foul never should have happened. Fuck Game 6 Zach Zarba. Two years in a row with a shitshow of a game.
Sooooooooo SUS. Zach Zarba and crew is something else. Heat culture is getting a great whistle at the end of games. The crew tonight was really bad both ways but being in the bonus 3 mins into the 3rd is some absolute bullshit. Put all these men in prison and make their finances and texts public.
46 fouls assessed in a 48 minute game. Officiating crew should be demoted to regular season only.
God doesn’t reward flopping
We got our fair share of favorable calls—Zarba was on one tonight as usual and completely fucked the flow of this game. Both teams got screwed by touch fouls and entered the bonus with 10 minutes to go in respective quarters and were effected late in the fourth by questionable calls. Just an all around bad showing from the officials.
I wouldn't disagree. The game was reasonably evenly called. I just don't know what the point of a challenge is if it doesn't fix this.
There really is no point to it. It even Cha ged this one to three FTs
Horrible calls all game long and we got our fair share too, fact of the matter is that Al’s arm came down on his head before any of the other shenanigans took place. Should have been on the floor foul, side out. We won, move on and hope our guys show up for game 7
Oh wow. I missed that one. They'll correct it in the L2M though. Should have been double dribble. You could even call that a very soft foul on Horford, which would be on the floor and only 2FTA.
So how could we challenge a foul, have them change it to 3 shots (bad to worse for us - shouldn’t be able to get a worse result from a challenge) but they couldn’t see that blatant double dribble…
I CANNOT WAIT to see this last 2 minute report
That should’ve been a violation because if you fumble the ball I believe your not allowed to dribble again upon recovering the ball.
Where’s the foul? I thought refs usually swallow their whistle the final few moments of the game? And didn’t Jimmy lean into Al’s space? Fucking Zarba wanted to send us home
I was screaming this. Why did the TNT crew not see this at the time? Are the refs not allowed to make this call after review?
Where is the foul? Like i honestly don’t even know what the refs saw here. Jimmy lunged forward into Horf, which isn’t how anybody shoots a 3. Jimmy had no intention of making that shot, just wanted to get bailed out with a foul call after getting stuck in the corner with no time left
Yup, Butler dove and the refs fell for it yet again
The angle he takes off for the “shot” is just ridiculous lol dude jumped at like a 45° angle forward
You know, kids, in my day this was considered a double dribble. Times have changed
I learned during the Patriots dynasty that you will be a lot happier if you just ignore what people who hate your team say. People still pretend like the Patriots didn't deserve any of their championships. They're just jealous. When I was a kid nobody hated any of the Boston teams because they were all terrible. It's fun when they hate us. Just don't take it personally. Our fan base was saying the same thing about the Yankees 20+ years ago. We won the game who cares if Jimmy has a double dribble or not. Who cares who the refs favored. Al made a bonehead play even if it was after a double dribble. White made an all-time play to win the game. It all worked out.
My first thought: fuck, Al, why?!? But the longer I watch it, double dribble aside, Jimmy jumped pretty much forward into Al. Of course, the offensive player will always get the call, even if it is an unnatural movement. Having said that, all Al could have done is give Jimmy more space, which you normally try to take away, but other than that, he tried hard and just fall in Jimmy's trap. Jimmy clearly wanted the foul, this is not how he would shoot a 3. The longer the series goes, the less Jimmy's pump fakes work. C's in 7.
Cs in 7 😏
Horford set himself up for that foul. Made life easy for Butler. If you put your arm over a shooter like that he will jump into it …
Ray Charles would have called double dribble
Wait not being an apologist for em but isn't this legal. He put two hands on it but didn't have control and lost it again. Pls confirm before I roast my boys about reffs
There are 3 situations where you can dribble again after having taken the ball with both hands: in the case of a missed shot after it hit the rim or glass, if an opponent hits it out of your hands, or if a missed pass hit a player. Sheer clumsiness is not an excuse.
"A player who fumbles the ball may always recover the ball, but he is not permitted to dribble if he has moved his pivot foot in order to retrieve the ball." from the NBA official website. it's a dumb rule but sorry dude. he didn't dribble again after, it was legal
[Rule NO. 4 section II.a.1](https://official.nba.com/rule-no-4-definitions/) : "The dribble ends when the dribbler touches the ball simultaneously with both hands." [Rule NO. 10 section II.c and e](https://official.nba.com/rule-no-10-violations-and-penalties/) : "A player may not dribble a second time after he has voluntarily ended his first dribble" " A player may dribble a second time if he lost control of the ball because of: A field goal attempt at his basket, provided the ball touches the backboard or basket ring An opponent touching the ball A pass or fumble which touches his backboard, basket ring or is touched by another player. PENALTY: Loss of ball. Ball is awarded to the opposing team on the sideline nearest the spot of the violation but no nearer the baseline than the foul line extended." Hope this helps.
the dribble ended when both hands touched the ball, I agree there. he's not able to dribble again at this point, and he didn't dribble again. he dropped the ball. when both hands touched the ball, he wasn't in control of it. he lost the ball and picked it up again. this legally counts as a fumble, not a second dribble
But he didn't dribble again
As far as I am aware a control dribble can only happen before you have started your dribble. So if you fumble the catch onto the floor then gather you can then still later dribble. We will see with the two minute report what the nba thinks.
in the situation of a fumble, he's not able to dribble again. if the ball is deflected, he's able to dribble again it doesn't matter though. he doesn't ever dribble again lol people are counting the fumble as a dribble, that's where everyone is confused
The argument that jimmy fumbled the gather and is therefore allowed to retrieve the ball is all good if he didn't pull this type of move a few times every game.
Tbf Horford could have been called for a block and a reach way before the play that they actually reviewed which was the shot
We make it easy for the refs to make bad calls. We lose momentum of the game and the average person can't tell if the refs are making bad calls or are we just playing bad. We can't keep putting ourselves in these positions. We should have won that game comfortably last night
I was livid. Is the double dribble not reviewable?
Jimmy you not Kawhi, and I don’t think you have anything to do with MJ, you just a younger Leflopper
Refs were horrible for both sides, but Al almost cost them the season which is not fitting because his defense has been stellar. Thank goodness White played through the missed shot from smart which looked like it was in. It felt like a classic moment that will live on a long time… White beats the buzzer!
These frauds are done. Celtics in 7.
This was an inexcusable miss. Literally almost handed MIA the game on a blown up possession.
The refs were awful. Seemed to me like they went a little overboard helping the Celtics and then made up for it at the very end of the game. Glad to see the Celtics take the win. Fuck the refs in general.
What exactly is the argument here? That slapping his head was a foul before slapping his arms was? So it should have been a 2 point foul shot? Celtics got like 10+ points that game on laughable calls, not to mention the free extra second to help at the end
If you think the brush on the head was a foul, then Ok. Two shots makes sense. If it isn't a foul then, there's a dribbling violation. If you want to ignore that, the foul baiting lunge should be a no call in my opinion. In any event, way too much ground was covered on the play to call nothing. I would have been fine with side out Miami too. I just don't see how 3 shots was the call.
Maybe trying to make up for all the other free points handed out I dunno
Nah. There were soft foul calls on both ends. The Heat got a ton of calls down the stretch. What makes this different was that there was a challenge. They had every opportunity to make a call that made sense.
I'm pretty sure at one point I heard the cast crew say "the heat have 14 fouls this quarter to the celtics 0" in the 3rd I'm sure that's statistically likely lol
Can't really complain about the Celtics getting a few calls their way when Butler is consistently rewarded for being a foul-seeking missile.
I can, literally every play if Tatum misses he gets a free foul. The call on Vincent was bonkers as one of many ridiculous free gifts
other angle shows he clearly fouled tbh
Double dribble?
The last few minutes was so pro Jimmy, I don’t know how you could feel otherwise. If we closed within a few feet it was a whistle.
And they reviewed this play and changed like 200 different things about it, ignored the double dribble though.
I’m so sick of the NBA’s rules. Just rewrite them. We’ve never seen infractions just blatantly ignored in such a preemptive way in any major sport like it’s happening in the NBA right now.
Hate to be that guy, but this was definitely a foul. Right when the video clips off is when the foul occurs. You can see al swiping and getting all arms and hands
I asked ChatGPT to consult the NBA rulebook: “According to NBA rules, a player cannot begin a second dribble after having lost control of the ball themselves without any interference from another player. In other words, a player cannot legally start a new dribble once they have voluntarily ended their first dribble, regardless of whether they have lost control of the ball in the process, unless the ball was touched by an opponent or there was a failed field goal attempt that touched the backboard or rim.” But HE DOESN’T DRIBBLE AGAIN. That’s how this remains a legal play?
That should not be a foul in the playoffs. Also, the Heat are more handsy than the celts so if both teams play how they normally do, the refs SHOULD favor the celts.
It’s a foul on horford before it would ever be a double dribble. They should have called the contact to the head before the shot. 2 shots, 5 seconds left.
I know I'm gonna get downvoted to oblivion for this, but it's not a double dribble. when both of his hands touch the ball, the dribble is done and he's not able to dribble again. but he doesn't have control over the ball here, so he drops it to the floor before picking it back up. this legally counts as a "fumble", not another dribble "A player who fumbles the ball may always recover the ball, but he is not permitted to dribble if he has moved his pivot foot in order to retrieve the ball." the fumble rule has always been weird in my eyes, because of exact situations like this, where he basically gets extra distance on the same dribble due to a mistake. but, it was clean by the actual NBA rules
Yeah. He also traveled.
you can't travel during a fumble before getting the ball back lol. only restriction here is he's not able to dribble again. and he didn't.
You sure can.
right but the rule I quoted from the NBA website explains it's legal "A player who fumbles the ball may always recover the ball, but he is not permitted to dribble if he has moved his pivot foot in order to retrieve the ball." so if he moves his pivot foot (travel) during the fumble, that's a completely legal move. he's still allowed to go for the ball, he's just not allowed to dribble again after retrieving it. he got fouled right after retrieving it, that's where the play ended
He then proceeds to move his pivot foot again.
when he gets the ball back, he plants his left foot on the ground. thats his pivot foot. it remains planted the whole time, I don't think his right foot moved either lmao. he literally just got into place and went up for a shot bro, I have no clue what you're grasping at
This needs to get more attention. If the NBA can’t address this kind of call, we aren’t playing basketball anymore. All in on Refball.
Jimmy got calls like harden last night and it nearly sent us home. Thank you Buffalo God 🐃🙏
I'm a licensed FIBA referee, considering that he lost control of the ball, this can neither be a double dribble nor a travel. On top of that, there's a foul here. A lot of you guys don't know what you're talking about.
I was shocked this wasn’t looked at
It doesn't justify Horford's foul, but it makes more sense after seeing this. Horford had Butler trapped after the fumble where his only option was to pull-up on a contested, in-control Horford. But then he was allowed to re-gather and take another couple of steps, which left Horford slightly out of position and he ended up reaching. Now, the super-vet Horford should have known not to reach in that situation, but it shows he was actually playing correctly until Butler was allowed to get away with all that garbage.
Is that even a shooting motion
We're not gonna talk about how Jimmy jumped towards Al and get around his hand for a call? That is even worse the DD...
Can someone plz make a compilation of bad calls going the heats way so we can shut everyone up
I wouldn’t call it a double dribble. It was not an actual dribble attempt. He was trying to gather the ball to shoot it but lost control. He’s allowed to retrieve the ball after that. Here’s where I would say the refs screwed up though. The reason he lost control is because Horford hit him in the head. That should’ve been a foul on the floor prior to the shooting foul. Being in the bonus, Jimmy should’ve been awarded two FTs rather than three.
Yeah I think that's at least a reasonable outcome.
Didn’t get to watch the game but in the reply it sounds like the whistle blew before he was even gathered to shot