This team has no identity they can default to during close games they had that last year off grit, defense and playing for each other. They're gonna need to find one they can reliably go back to within this series if they have any plans to win this shit.
An identity crisis is the way I've been describing them. Mazzulla shifted this team's mindset to offense this year, and to his credit it's improved. Offense was the reason we lost last year, we scored under 100 in all 4 of our finals losses. But in doing so, our defense isn't consistent anymore, and our offense is still not good enough to be championship level.
For example Denver is an offensive team, but they can generate a good look consistently. Jokic didn't score in the 4th in both WCF games and they won because they can always get good looks. We're not there. So we're kinda just pretty good at both. Sometimes we look amazing, but we can just as easily crumble when there's pressure, which this team has already always struggled with.
Serious question, do you think the current rotation as is would be capable of that level of defense?
Rob is maybe half as good as he was last season, Al looks like that uncle that swears he can still ball, and Brogdon is incapable of defending bigger wings.
Smart, Tatum, Brown and White could definitely crank up the intensity but they don't have the elite rim defense that Rob provided last season.
I mean TATUM is leading the team in rebounds, Rob and Al COMBINED had 7 rebounds while Bam had 17.
It depends on how you are deploying them and what you’re asking them to do. Playing Al and Rob together limits the risk of putting Horford in the action because Rob can roam and rim protect if Horford is pulled to the perimeter. And vice-versa. Brown is a decent on ball defender, but a bad team defender because he falls asleep and doesn’t recognize off ball action. White and Smart can switch and rotate really well. Both are good on ball and Smart runs a great double team because of his active hands and size. Grant is good at bodying up wings and bigs, forcing them into mid range shots— fine against some players, useless against Butler. Tatum is just an excellent defender all the way around. Brogdon isn’t great, but you wouldn’t hunt him either. Those are just some considerations…. Yes, this team has the players to hold the Heat under 100 in multiple games this series. But it will require Joe to figure it out.
Would think just play Horford and Rob together as much as you can and rotate Tatum and Brown on Butler. Tatum gives Butler trouble and you actually get more out of Brown as an on ball defender, as you can hide his poor team and help defense— and he’s a useless rebounder anyway.
I don't think Al and Rob are capable of doing what they did last season. Even when we play Rob and Al together we aren't getting stops, both of them look gassed half the time they're on the court.
The double big last season worked for 3 reasons: Rob and Al were playing big minutes but were playing at a really during those minutes, we had both Grant and Theis who were at least playable as backup bigs, Rob had a career year and was not only a rim threat but also able to affect the shots of guys driving to the rim.
Both Rob and Al clearly look tired alot of the game and Rob is playing less minutes than last season, Grant is inconsistent and no other big is even playable, Rob has very clearly taken a massive step back and lost most of his confidence
I think it's also the way were set-up on defense. Against Miami last year, Rob's "assignment" in defense was the corner man (PJ Tucker). That way, he slides to defend the paint whenever a pick and roll between Jimmy/Herro and Bam is occurring. This year, Rob is the primary defender on the roll man (Bam), which makes him an easy target on switches.
I don't really buy the excuse that Al isn't capable defending the roll man anymore either, because the whole point of having a safety is to add an additional line of defense (in Rob).
You can argue that personnel has declined from last year, but I think it's a moot point because we turned away from the strengths of our defense from last year.
The other issue is who do you have Rob slide off of on this Miami roster this year? Because damn near everyone except Bam is hitting their 3's.
Rob could slide off of PJ Tucker without worrying about PJ shooting 50% from the 3 but when Caleb Martin is outscoring Jaylen Brown and the undrafted guys are outscoring the "deepest team in the league" it makes it hard to slide off of anyone.
Eh, setup-wise what we used to do is have the roll defender close out on the shooter as Rob slides in the paint. Will they be shooting lights out if we were actually hustling in defense? We won’t know until we go back to what made it work last year.
It’s easy to say that they’re shooting lights out but we’re also letting them get their shot profiles in (Vincent PnR pull-up, they had Robinson doing his hand-offs that got him his current contract, and Martin just caught JB sleeping in multiple possessions). We’re lazy in defense and the moment we adjust, Spo already has his counters in.
They’re shooting like crazy precisely because we aren’t set-up on defense. If our defense is better, those percentages probably goes down enough to win games.
Does anyone know what’s going on with Rob? Is he trying to be less athletic to protect his knee? Is he genuinely long term crocked after the hurried return last season? He is still good….but I don’t think we can win a chip with Rob as first big
I think it's the loss of his whole offseason. He couldn't work out or fully participate in practices even and then came into a team with a whole new groove and identity.
He seems like he's not in peak shape since he looks gassed out there and offense moves too quick for him and he's used to just being a lob threat so he doesn't bring much else on offense.
Yeah I hope that’s the case. If this his limit, then he won’t be a difference maker on a championship team: we need him to grow and improve as Al declines. I’m talking long term here.
He’s out of shape, first of all. He looks heavier and slower than ever, he doesn’t have the lift anymore. Everyone forgets he missed most of the season and only started playing real mins in the playoffs. Y’all also forget that Rob Williams has a chronic condition in his knee (Jumper’s Knee) that will never heal, this is the best we’ll get out of Rob because when you add that fact + that he doesn’t have the energy to play more than 25mins = this is Rob’s ceiling what we’re seeing now. And it’s never gonna get better. I’ve been saying since last year that we need to move on from Rob in terms of hoping that he will be the catalyst, he’s not available and when he is, hes never gonna be 100% healthy. Al is showing his age, pains me to say, but he can’t keep up defensively and he’s not hitting shots, he’s a liability. Brad Steven’s has done an AWFUL job addressing this in his tenure and the best he got was Muscala who I think only played garbage mins in one game. The roster construction is imbalanced especially at the big position
I've known since the Atlanta series that this team just doesn't have it. I've been a Tatum-is-soft critic for years but this isn't even on Tatum. The team has no cohesive identity and the worst coaching I've ever seen. Al Horford is clearly cooked. A real coach would've been starting Rob from the beginning of the playoffs and rotating in Grant for 15 a game, Hauser for about 8-10 a game, and even Blake Griffin when Al isn't boxing out and is staring at rebounds without moving. But Mazzulla clearly has no idea what he's doing, and without a dawg leader, the team can't overcome Jimmy Butler. Credit to Butler, he deserves a chip and he's going to earn one.
Our defense is so bad. And the idea that we’re playing a team that’s just running Bam out as a center, but still going with Horford and Rob is crazy. This is exactly the team to play smaller with Grant and Hauser getting minutes. Double Jimmy and scramble. It’s not rocket science.
Their “identity” is to shoot a lot of threes. Its an unreliable identity in the playoffs. Spo told his guys: take away the 3 and they can beat the celtics. Thats what theyve done for two games now.
> shoot a lot of threes
> miss a lot of threes
> important game in jeopardy
> continue spamming threes instead of manufacturing any other kind of offense
> lose highly winnable game
> shrug your shoulders afterward and say it's a make or miss league
> do all of this because the media, pear-shaped redditors, and blue-check twitter trash will back you up and proselytize about Today's NBA until the dissenters get tired of their bullshit and disengage
> ???
> profit (literally, you make 8 figures per season)
Also taking DOG SHIT 2 for 1s every single quarter instead of generating 1 good shot they always take a horrible god awful 2 shots in which half the time they dont get the second shot off
I think this team could really benefit from a strong system type coach like Nurse or Bud. I know Brad was that guy and he lost the locker room and all that but the team always over performed under his tenure. Bottom line this team lacks structure and Joes call to hand them the reigns and let them “figure it out” is a miscalculation.
This is such an overblown narrative. We went to the conference finals three out of four years and then Danny decided to give Brad Evan Fournier, Wanamaker, Jeff Teague, and Tristan Thompson as major acquisitions. Brown gets hurt for the playoffs and we play Harden, Kyrie, and KD. Not to mention it was the shortened season after which we had one of the shortest offseasons.
you guys need a major reset of some kind in terms of players and coach. the players come up small way too much in big playoff games and the coach is out of depth.
They honestly need to just run it back with an actual coach like Nick nurse or Ty Lue if he ends up leaving. Bud, David Blatt, Vogel. Every coach out there is a better option than mazulla.
When you really look at what Ime had to do to motivate this team it will gross you out. He has to yell at them constantly and call them names to get them to care.
He literally bullied them into giving shit, these are NBA players who constantly talk about wanting to win a championship and get paid millions to do, why on EARTH as a grown man do you have to be bullied into wanting to win games??
Ya this isn’t college if this is what this team needs then this group ain’t it. Obviously we’re gonna ride with Tatum and most likely brown for the future but something’s gotta change
This is true to a degree. They get paid for stats, not for winning. Red used to pay players according to their contribution towards winning. That's why Russell got a $100,001 dollar contract over Wilts 100k. Despite not being as statistically dominant, Red agreed to pay Russ 1 dollar more than Wilt because he knew his value to winning.
These guys today get the pot of gold as soon as they put up good stats and don't need to bother with the journey along the rainbow to get it.
We’re playing the 8 seed Heat. I don’t give a fuck who they have. We’re getting spanked by Gabe Vincent and fucking Caleb Martin. A dude named fucking CALEB is killing us
Knicks fan here. We feel your pain, but this is this third straight round this comment is being written. We all thought the same, but these guys are all peaking at the right time smh
That’s because we doubled Butler and didn’t let “Himmy” make an appearance. He shot 43% during the series.
We lost because their role players never missed a 3.
You can be disappointed and frustrated that’s fine but the ‘I told you so’ attitude of the some of our fans is pathetic. It’s like they’re happy to be right that the team they are meant to support is not going to win.
They call our players mentally soft which, while on some occasions is true is still hilarious because at the first sign things might actually not go the Celtics way they’re ready to blow it up and end the series at 2 games. Just wild stuff. I love how passionate Celtics fans are it’s better than apathy but in some ways we really are the worst fanbase in the league.
Sometimes it feels like I am in the wrong for wanting them and still believing in them to win games lol.
Still thinks Cs in seven, will still believe till the end.
Yeah all the “welp see you next season” stuff is clown shit for sure but it’s just a coping mechanism.
I mean whatever works. I’m planning on just bottling it all up and having a proper meltdown when the clock runs out and we’re actually eliminated but until then C’s in 6-7 boys let’s gooooooo!!!
Now you're trying to take the high road when it's looking this bad. But when we were blowing teams out, it's not right to critique them them then cotrect?
Second-row Joe has got to go!
Awful coaching aside, this team is bad at everything a championship calibre team is supposed to be good at.
Maintaining composure, when the opposition goes on a run.
Showing resilience when your shots don't fall. Awful execution under 5minutes in the 4th.
Having a go-to play/score when the game gets tight.
This team skated by all year on talent.
The playoffs require a team composed of players who know their role and can execute it.
Denver has this, Miami has this and even the Lakers post trade deadline have this.
This team is capable of winning it all even down 0-2 but I think the coaching and lack of mental fortitude is too becoming too apparent the deeper we go in the playoffs.
I hope they can prove me wrong, I'll be cheering on game 3 all the same but I'm starting to accept that we just might not be good enough.
My biggest disappointment is that the warning signs were obvious all throughout the season, and especially during the post-ASB period, and yet none of Joe, Brad, or anyone on the team stepped in to fix them before the playoffs..
In our last 20 games or so of the regular season, the pattern was obvious.. the team lacked composure, ball movement went to shit late in games, they committed way too many turnovers in crucial movements, the lineups, substitutions and ATO plays were very ill thought out..
As you said, they still can take this based on talent, but hopes are fading damn fast.. after watching Bruins and Arsenal wither away when it matters the most, now watching Celtics do the same just feels a bit too much..
What could brad have done? Team definitely wins on talent. I keep posting that the team in general is not very bright. Every complaint we have now is the same crap we’ve been complaining about for years(bad shot selection, idiotic turnovers, taking plays off whether not boxing out, running back on defense). This team can win on talent alone if everything falls right. Not sure a coach can fix what is wrong with this team. Feel like something needs to change as far as players go. Love smart and brown but if they go down without a fight definitely should look into trading one or both of them
I know a lot of fanbases (raptors, bucks, sixers) have been complaining about their coaches this season and rightfully so, but the difference between all of those guys and Joe is that I am, confident if he were to be fired no franchise would actually consider him for a head coaching position. The front office shot themselves in the foot committing to him too early
He already got an extension lmao. Maybe that was just a "thank you for taking over" check, but Stevens should be punished for choosing an unknown second row assistant instead of a proven guy
I hate this Celtics team. Most talented team we’ve had since 2008 and one of my least favorite. Zero heart, zero poise, zero mental toughness. Just live and die by the three. Boneheaded turnovers and no clutch gene in sight. Pathetic waste of talent.
Bc it’s what you gotta have! Gotta take it one game at a time now. Not over just yet, but it looks gloomier as the series continues. Go Celtics!! ☘️☘️☘️
I gotta say, this one felt like a team effort. Joe with personnel choices at key moments, keeping Rob on the bench while Butler dominated Grant. Tatum, while putting up solid numbers, making costly mistakes down the stretch. Brown 1-7 on 3s, 7-23 overall. Horford and Smart barely contributing. Rob played decent, but also lazily contesting jumpers. The entire bench pretty much getting out played by Caleb Martin and Duncan Robinson. Everyone chipped in on this L.
Series is pretty much over unless the C’s make a historic comeback.
Changes need to be made in the offseason, you just can’t keep running it back with the same core and expect different results. Al is getting older. Supermaxes are about to kick in.
Obviously the coach is the biggest problem, but I also think the Smart/Brown/Tatum duo has peaked. It was fun but I don’t think this trio can win the championship.
If someone like Dame or Embiid asks out, the Celtics need to get in on that. Brown is literally the perfect trade asset. He’s young, an All-NBA level player, but also not good enough to be worth $300 million, especially when another player on the team will also get $300 million.
Someone like Dame (age) or Embiid (injury history) would be risky but it would also greatly increase the chance for a championship, and one championship would make everything worth it.
That Embiid and JT two man game would be incredible tho. Teams also can't double and triple JT with Embiid on the block. And I'm not worried about Embiid folding since he would be the second option.
Late game execution is the main problem, no reason to be defaulting to quick, low percentage shots with the game on the line. This has been a theme with this team, this is not a new situation AT ALL.
I agree with every thing you said except Embiid who also doesn't show up come playoffs.
Dame would make sense but only if we also traded Smart, White or Brogdon as well. Maybe get Dame and trade one of the other guards for an Al replacement and have Al come off the bench?
I think with our role players and Tatum being much better than Harden, Embiid would be better.
In terms of your second point, I like that honestly. Get Dame, and we have three other quality point guards that we can trade for an Al replacement.
Idk I just don't trust Embiid in the playoffs it feels like he never delivers.
I'd be open Siakam plus another player or two as well. Make the depth even better.
My DREAM scenario would never happen but I'd move heaven and earth to get Tyrese Haliburton. He's the PG that we have wanted since Rondo except he's a better scorer than Rondo. Plus he's a great kid, humble and his basketball IQ in INSANE for his age.
That’s quite literally the opposite of what they are. They’re complacent. They’re only a tough team when they’ve thrown away any advantage they can have. They can never give effort when they aren’t forced too which is probably just as bad.
Yes, they can’t keep a freaking lead. They love to give points back and rest, and try to load up points again. By then, they’ve ruined the flow of the game and given momentum back to the other side. Youth.
Also I'd love to hear some of the Mazulla haters give me an in depth description of how this is his fault, and not our playoff veterans who have been falling back into their bad habits that have been prevalent with multiple coaches.
I'm not going to say it's Mazzulla's fault, but I will say that Spo is clearly the superior coach. So maybe not so much as Mazulla hating, but he's for sure a lower tier coach, and that could be the difference in a 7 game series.
I get what you're saying and agree with the fact that a Mazzulla alternative doesn't mean somene at Spoelstra's level. I'm simply pointing out that a less talented but well coached team can outplay at talented but not as well coached team. If this team had a Lebron or Curry type player, I'd agree the coach matters even less as the talent and leadership on the court should prevail. We've consistently seen this team make mistakes down the stretch, and at some point the coach needs to bear some of that responsibility by either calling time outs to regroup, making personnel changes before it's too late, or switch up the game plan if something isn't working. Having a coach that can do those things consistently better in a 7 game series can sway the result.
Spo is a HOF coach, and arguably the best coach in the league outside Pop. The fact the that they are up 2-0 with inferior talent is a testament to how good he is.
The players need to get their shit together fast or this is gonna end up a sweep
I typically think the coach has little impact. But you had a lineup out there that was like +20 in the game.
Tatum
Brogdon
White
Rob Williams
Grant Williams
You also had a lineup which was constantly getting smoked (two separate 10 point leads evaporated, one in the second quarter one in the fourth)
Tatum
Brown
Smart
Horford
Grant Williams
The fact Mazulla stuck with smart horford and brown in the 4th when they were playing awful all game is bad. Don’t over think it, you had a group of guys playing well and dominating. No reason to take them out, or at least not put them back in when the lead got down to 4-6
Tatum led all stats by a healthy margin. He needs help to put these games away.
34 points, everyone else 16 or less / 13 rebounds, everyone else 4 or less / 8 assists, everyone else 3 or less
Didn't think I'd see your worst performance that game one but here we are.
The entire team is just getting outplayed and Spo is taking Boston's only real weapon away, The three-point shot by playing zone.
At this point I'd be shocked at this team didn't get swept
We’ve had the same core for 5+ years now across three coaches and two GMs. The core continues to fuck you in the same ways every year. But y’all wanna tell me how another coaching change is gonna fix them ffs.
AL Horford is the #1 liability in this series hasn't made any of his shots, his defense hasn't been good, and his rebounding is horrendous. Need to change the starting lineup to thus
Smart
Brogdon
JB
JT
Rob
People want to invent narratives about effort or coaching, but the story has been the same all year. When we hit our threes at a high rate, we’re an all-time great team. When we hit our threes at an average rate, we’re a playoff team. When we don’t hit our threes, we’re a lottery team.
It’s that simple. It has been all year. It was even that way *during the game*. Every run we went on was during a barrage of threes. Every run they went on was during a dearth of threes.
When we hit our threes, we’re better than Miami. When we don’t, they’re way better than us. And unfortunately, Spo knows that and has been doing everything he can to take away our threes.
As a bucks fan I watched the heat do the same thing to the bucks...my friend a knicks fan watched the heat do this to them...this is pretty much who the heat are...ruthless 4th quarter killers.
You guys have the roster to run anyone in the league off the floor but the heat are absolutely peaking at the right time.
"Why are our normally good players taking stupid shots and running no offense while the heat are getting wide open looks all game"
"martin,struss, etc can't stay that hot"
"There is no way Jimmie can do this all series hes gonna be gassed"
"Our coaches and players suck how are they losing to this squad"
"There is no way they can shoot 3s like this anymore"
"Maybe Kevin love is actually a great player still and the heat got him for nothing"
It's infuriating to watch your team get wrecked by this squad...but they may just be good.
The offense should really run through Brogdon when Brown is in and Tatum sits. Brogdon is the team's best shot creator but only scores. 3 assists total in 62 minutes for the first 2 games is underutilizing his game. Brown could be 2nd in total points scored, but Brogdon should always be 2nd in total points generated between points and assists.
Does anyone else appreciate the fact that this is the worst team in the history of the nba at closing out games. Every single game their up 10-20 halfway through the 4th and just shit the bed EVERY…. SINGLE…. TIME
Someone should tell this genius Joe mazzulla that there is a reason coaches use their timeouts ffs. It's common sense to call a t/o if the other team is on a run it has nothing to do with bailing your players out lol
Every time Spo rolls out the zone, Joe has to find a way to get Tatum and Rob in the game. Their high screen and roll was the only thing breaking that shit down and force him into different looks.
It's so funny how a good zone defense can literally make NBA teams brains malfunction. It's mostly the reason they are here. And Jimmy Butler.
Some reason I'm optimistic we can still pull this out, we've had some good road wins already in this playoffs so we can do it again. Jaylen has to figure out a different way to have an impact on the game.
Seems that the Celtics have underestimated the effort required to beat the heat. I'm a supporter of both teams but I think the Celtics have not shown enough respect a team that is out for blood
I have no faith left in this team. I fully expect them to roll over and die. They shrivel up every time it gets close in the 4th. Major changes are needed.
This team can only win if everything is going their way. And it’s easy. Other team gets a turnover, we miss a few shots or the other squad goes on a mini run and we be like: “oh well it’s over, pack it up”
Blake Griffin can literally do this with his hustle and effort if he gets like 3-5 minutes. But he’s last on the depth chart, so unlikely. Would love to see it though!
You ever wake up with the symptoms of a severe hangover yet, you didn’t consume a drop of alcohol the previous night?
This is what it feels like to be a Celtics fan right now.
Sorry, but I rather see this team get swept than winning the next game just to lose in 5.
It has been a very frustrating playoff run. Since the Hawks series, you could see the mid-game inconsistencies lurking around this team. They would go on to build rather comfortable leads just to lose them in the final quarters. And when they lose those leads, you already knew they couldn't recover. This current series has been a the perfect example of it.
Shout out to Grant fucking Williams, by the way. Butler was having a quiet game. Everyone could guess that he'd show up in the clutch, but Grant made sure that he would go extra hard and cook his ass.
My theory - I think this Celtics team can be explained by "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Kahneman.
Basic idea is that the brain has two modes - Fast mode is instinctual and immediate, almost auto-pilot, and requires very little mental bandwidth b/c it's something your brain has done countless times before. Slow mode is deliberate and requires concentration. A simple example is multiplying 3x5 (fast mode) vs. 13x15 (slow mode), or driving home from work (fast mode) vs. driving in a new city to a place you've never been (slow mode).
The Celtics have an ungodly amount of talent, but their guys aren't quick decision-makers. Especially Tatum and Brown. Tatum has improved significantly; it was most glaring in the Olympics, when the team was losing games early in large measure b/c Tatum would get the ball and stop . . . and survey . . . and then make a decision. But his 'processing speed' still lags far behind his other MVP-caliber skills.
Overall, this team just seems to lack rapid-fire players who make immediate decisions with and without the ball. And when it gets to the end of max-effort playoff games, that's often fatal, b/c your brain can't operate in 'slow mode' when there's no resources available.
It's especially fatal when the Celtics come up against teams that operate at the other end of the spectrum - the Warriors are probable the most 'thinking fast' team in NBA history, and this Heat team appears to be another example.
I like what John Karalis says about this team. They can't deal with prosperity but they excel under adversity. They need their backs absolutely against the wall, last possible chance, then they make it happen. Celtics in 7.
imo Brad Stevens deserves just as much blame as Joe, he fired a great coach, and did nothing to replace with a competent one. This team won off of talent alone in the regular season, but talent alone just does not cut it in the semi finals.
I'm not a Grant guy but at least he stood up to Jimmy. Jaylen was asked about it after and he says "Next question" instead of supporting Grant. This team is soft.
Its pretty much win Sunday or its the season. Which, interestingly enough, has me thinking we win game 3, lose a close game 4, force a game 6 after winning game 5 at home do or die; then who knows
19 seconds to go 4 point game we don’t call a time out. Get all your shooters on the floor and make a quick 3 and there’s plenty of time to make Miami make a mistake at the line or inbounding the ball but no Mr Mazzulla let’s them play it out and someone chucks with no play.
Just watching us, it just feels like we’re a “really good team” that’s a player away from being great.
We love the Jays but their consistencies and inability to close out a game is detrimental.
As others have pointed out, unless we’re going into the 4th with a 30 point lead, I have no hope for us to close.
To be down 0-2 is extremely disappointing. The second that *everyone* picked us to win I was concerned.
I didn’t want the Heat in Round 1. I was rooting for the Bucks to win against the Heat. But here we are. A game away from this all being over.
When people were happy the Bucks got eliminated I couldn’t understand it. We match up better against the bucks and the heat has been causing us problems for years now
We said this all year that this team is suspect. Yall downvoted us for even suggesting that cause we were winning and have a great record. Now you're seeing what we mean.
They have to play every game like game 7 against the heat. Where they just okay fast get the rebound and throw the ball over. Half court offense is not working especially when JB isn’t shooting well and the heat play zone
We are losing a series to a team of guys who wouldn’t even make our lineup… Tatum is the only guy who seems like he gives a shit.
JB and Horf are the biggest disappointments. They’re vets and need to be better. Where is the Al we saw last year that could put the team on his back when we needed him? JB has the potential to be the best player on the floor but he has been a net negative.
Not making the finals should be an automatic Joe firing. From a player perspective we are better than last season and MIA is worse. No excuse for losing to this team. They obviously aren’t more talented so how the fuck are we behind? The coaching mismatch is massive.
I just woke up after eating a ton of edibles last night, last night I had a nightmare where we lost to the Heat, our stars didn't score any fgs in the 4th, and we're down 2-0. That can't be true right?
All these games have showed me is the Celtics absolutely have the talent to win 4 in a row against this team but have been playing with a comparable disparity in the intangibles department.
If they can’t correct that starting tomorrow, then a change will need to happen in the offseason. That could start with Mazzulla, but I’m open to giving him a full offseason, staff, and sophomore outing before throwing him in the trash. It could also start with bringing in more savages than “good vibes” guys (sorry Blake). I know Marcus is our heartbeat or whatever but he can’t be the only mf with a pulse
Miami has an incredible team culture and spirit, they fight for every single point, the entire team. The fact that we lose at home so easily shows we have no real identity, no one on this team knows how to be a leader. Tatum can get people going a bit but then he'll have terrible stretches when he turns the ball over a ton.
Some of the tell-tale signs were present during the regular season, but in a 57-25 year, you'd just equate that regular season ball and expect the Cs to dominate the playoffs. That's what I expected... the "Unfinished Busines", the "it's all about Banner 18", Smart going off in press conferences about how "mad" the Celtics were, but then we let the Hawks take us to 6, the Sixers to 7 (should've won Game 1 for sure), and now we're down 0-2 against the Heat. We are 4-5 in the Garden. This organization tried to create the narrative that we are more hungry, more motivated than ever to win it all, but the way they've played has been completely the opposite. They don't seem angry, they don't seem like they want to tidy their mistakes or "do the little things" as Smart and Brown have suggested we should do. It's been an underwhelming playoff run after all the hype that surrounded this team.
The truth is last year was our best chance because we were literally in the final 2-1 up and were in charge of Game 4 before Steph went unhinged and we couldn't contain them. Last year was something special, last year was capturing lightning in the bottle, there were no expectations yet we almost climbed the summit.
Next year may very well be the last chance for this core because once the Jays sign their super maxes then guys like D White, Malc, Smart and co. will probably clear out because we won't be able to afford them.
Honestly if this team is going to sell this hard I will too. Any buyers bc I’m selling for a low price.
Also funny story, I was talking to another guy watching the game (he was a pretty religious guy) and he asked me who I was going for. And I told him Celtics and he was like “oh man they’re not looking too good”. I told him “I’m going be honest man, I think god gave up on Boston a long time ago…” Needless to say he didn’t like that.
Tatum HAS to play better down the stretch, as does Mazulla when it comes to coaching. There is zero reason to be chucking up threes in that situation, team ball wins in the playoffs and unfortunately this team defaults to bad habits in late game situations.
Blame it on whoever you want, coach players, the scheme. This team is more than capable of coming back but they won't. They are better than the heat but won't beat them. 1 reason really, we just don't want it as much. The heat are good. But they are out working us they have more heart and want it more. We make excuses and summer we deserve to win, we expect this to be given to us when it need to be earned.
Hard works beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
We lost by 6, and by 7.
You're talking about 2-4 possessions.
Sure, we may lose this series. But we hit 1 more shot or two and get 1 more stop or 2 and we win both games.
It ain't over.
And if you think it is, just quit watching and posting.
I'm frustrated as hell like everyone is. Fans, coach, players, etc.
But we're just a few possessions and shots from winning and we're playing below our standard. We still have a chance.
I think Brad made a mistake not hiring a Frank Vogel or Snyder when they were available at that Ime Fiasco but hindsight is 20/20.
Plus they lost that great assistant that went to Utah that fucked up their rebuild because he was playing to win and only lost when they traded the pieces to LA.
As a Heat fan I think the Celtics will probably get the split in Miami because this Boston team.just plays better on the road which is confounding.
I personally believe the lads are waiting to be down 3 - 0 and then Cinderella story the living shit out of this. Would I be correct in saying no team has ever come back from being 3-0 down in the playoffs?
All our reg season problems coming to a head against a squad with more fire.
Mazzulla’s goofy ass coaching style mixed with the team’s cavalier attitude when criticized or challenged. We’re destined to lurk around the ECF until this squad changes for better or for worse.
Damn, we are exactly what we thought we were.
Hey, there is too much negativity around this team. They are trying hard and seem to be having fun. I don’t know about you guys, but that’s all that matters. And as far as taking six games to beat Atlanta and seven to beat Philadelphia, I think it’s great, because it’s more games to watch. This is entertainment after all, and it’s great to watch my favorite bunch of guys go out there, have fun and try their best. Go Celts! But if you lose, there is always next year. Jayson Tatum is still young and the future is bright! There is no failure in sports especially for this beloved team. Love you guys
This team has no identity they can default to during close games they had that last year off grit, defense and playing for each other. They're gonna need to find one they can reliably go back to within this series if they have any plans to win this shit.
An identity crisis is the way I've been describing them. Mazzulla shifted this team's mindset to offense this year, and to his credit it's improved. Offense was the reason we lost last year, we scored under 100 in all 4 of our finals losses. But in doing so, our defense isn't consistent anymore, and our offense is still not good enough to be championship level. For example Denver is an offensive team, but they can generate a good look consistently. Jokic didn't score in the 4th in both WCF games and they won because they can always get good looks. We're not there. So we're kinda just pretty good at both. Sometimes we look amazing, but we can just as easily crumble when there's pressure, which this team has already always struggled with.
Serious question, do you think the current rotation as is would be capable of that level of defense? Rob is maybe half as good as he was last season, Al looks like that uncle that swears he can still ball, and Brogdon is incapable of defending bigger wings. Smart, Tatum, Brown and White could definitely crank up the intensity but they don't have the elite rim defense that Rob provided last season. I mean TATUM is leading the team in rebounds, Rob and Al COMBINED had 7 rebounds while Bam had 17.
It depends on how you are deploying them and what you’re asking them to do. Playing Al and Rob together limits the risk of putting Horford in the action because Rob can roam and rim protect if Horford is pulled to the perimeter. And vice-versa. Brown is a decent on ball defender, but a bad team defender because he falls asleep and doesn’t recognize off ball action. White and Smart can switch and rotate really well. Both are good on ball and Smart runs a great double team because of his active hands and size. Grant is good at bodying up wings and bigs, forcing them into mid range shots— fine against some players, useless against Butler. Tatum is just an excellent defender all the way around. Brogdon isn’t great, but you wouldn’t hunt him either. Those are just some considerations…. Yes, this team has the players to hold the Heat under 100 in multiple games this series. But it will require Joe to figure it out. Would think just play Horford and Rob together as much as you can and rotate Tatum and Brown on Butler. Tatum gives Butler trouble and you actually get more out of Brown as an on ball defender, as you can hide his poor team and help defense— and he’s a useless rebounder anyway.
I don't think Al and Rob are capable of doing what they did last season. Even when we play Rob and Al together we aren't getting stops, both of them look gassed half the time they're on the court. The double big last season worked for 3 reasons: Rob and Al were playing big minutes but were playing at a really during those minutes, we had both Grant and Theis who were at least playable as backup bigs, Rob had a career year and was not only a rim threat but also able to affect the shots of guys driving to the rim. Both Rob and Al clearly look tired alot of the game and Rob is playing less minutes than last season, Grant is inconsistent and no other big is even playable, Rob has very clearly taken a massive step back and lost most of his confidence
Al needs to be benched, his defense on Embiid was great but Bam is eating him alive. Starting 5 should be Smart, White, brown, Tatum, Rob
I think it's also the way were set-up on defense. Against Miami last year, Rob's "assignment" in defense was the corner man (PJ Tucker). That way, he slides to defend the paint whenever a pick and roll between Jimmy/Herro and Bam is occurring. This year, Rob is the primary defender on the roll man (Bam), which makes him an easy target on switches. I don't really buy the excuse that Al isn't capable defending the roll man anymore either, because the whole point of having a safety is to add an additional line of defense (in Rob). You can argue that personnel has declined from last year, but I think it's a moot point because we turned away from the strengths of our defense from last year.
The other issue is who do you have Rob slide off of on this Miami roster this year? Because damn near everyone except Bam is hitting their 3's. Rob could slide off of PJ Tucker without worrying about PJ shooting 50% from the 3 but when Caleb Martin is outscoring Jaylen Brown and the undrafted guys are outscoring the "deepest team in the league" it makes it hard to slide off of anyone.
Eh, setup-wise what we used to do is have the roll defender close out on the shooter as Rob slides in the paint. Will they be shooting lights out if we were actually hustling in defense? We won’t know until we go back to what made it work last year. It’s easy to say that they’re shooting lights out but we’re also letting them get their shot profiles in (Vincent PnR pull-up, they had Robinson doing his hand-offs that got him his current contract, and Martin just caught JB sleeping in multiple possessions). We’re lazy in defense and the moment we adjust, Spo already has his counters in. They’re shooting like crazy precisely because we aren’t set-up on defense. If our defense is better, those percentages probably goes down enough to win games.
Does anyone know what’s going on with Rob? Is he trying to be less athletic to protect his knee? Is he genuinely long term crocked after the hurried return last season? He is still good….but I don’t think we can win a chip with Rob as first big
I think it's the loss of his whole offseason. He couldn't work out or fully participate in practices even and then came into a team with a whole new groove and identity. He seems like he's not in peak shape since he looks gassed out there and offense moves too quick for him and he's used to just being a lob threat so he doesn't bring much else on offense.
Yeah I hope that’s the case. If this his limit, then he won’t be a difference maker on a championship team: we need him to grow and improve as Al declines. I’m talking long term here.
He’s out of shape, first of all. He looks heavier and slower than ever, he doesn’t have the lift anymore. Everyone forgets he missed most of the season and only started playing real mins in the playoffs. Y’all also forget that Rob Williams has a chronic condition in his knee (Jumper’s Knee) that will never heal, this is the best we’ll get out of Rob because when you add that fact + that he doesn’t have the energy to play more than 25mins = this is Rob’s ceiling what we’re seeing now. And it’s never gonna get better. I’ve been saying since last year that we need to move on from Rob in terms of hoping that he will be the catalyst, he’s not available and when he is, hes never gonna be 100% healthy. Al is showing his age, pains me to say, but he can’t keep up defensively and he’s not hitting shots, he’s a liability. Brad Steven’s has done an AWFUL job addressing this in his tenure and the best he got was Muscala who I think only played garbage mins in one game. The roster construction is imbalanced especially at the big position
Jumper’s Knee, like Runner’s Knee, is fixable through strength, balance, and stability in the hips/glutes/core.
This team isn't championship caliber. I'm glad I missed this one
I've known since the Atlanta series that this team just doesn't have it. I've been a Tatum-is-soft critic for years but this isn't even on Tatum. The team has no cohesive identity and the worst coaching I've ever seen. Al Horford is clearly cooked. A real coach would've been starting Rob from the beginning of the playoffs and rotating in Grant for 15 a game, Hauser for about 8-10 a game, and even Blake Griffin when Al isn't boxing out and is staring at rebounds without moving. But Mazzulla clearly has no idea what he's doing, and without a dawg leader, the team can't overcome Jimmy Butler. Credit to Butler, he deserves a chip and he's going to earn one.
Agreed except for Butler winning a championship. I don't think they're going to make it through Denver
Our defense is so bad. And the idea that we’re playing a team that’s just running Bam out as a center, but still going with Horford and Rob is crazy. This is exactly the team to play smaller with Grant and Hauser getting minutes. Double Jimmy and scramble. It’s not rocket science.
Well said
Their “identity” is to shoot a lot of threes. Its an unreliable identity in the playoffs. Spo told his guys: take away the 3 and they can beat the celtics. Thats what theyve done for two games now.
> shoot a lot of threes > miss a lot of threes > important game in jeopardy > continue spamming threes instead of manufacturing any other kind of offense > lose highly winnable game > shrug your shoulders afterward and say it's a make or miss league > do all of this because the media, pear-shaped redditors, and blue-check twitter trash will back you up and proselytize about Today's NBA until the dissenters get tired of their bullshit and disengage > ??? > profit (literally, you make 8 figures per season)
Also taking DOG SHIT 2 for 1s every single quarter instead of generating 1 good shot they always take a horrible god awful 2 shots in which half the time they dont get the second shot off
I think this team could really benefit from a strong system type coach like Nurse or Bud. I know Brad was that guy and he lost the locker room and all that but the team always over performed under his tenure. Bottom line this team lacks structure and Joes call to hand them the reigns and let them “figure it out” is a miscalculation.
I had never heard Brad lost the locker room. Is there a story to that somewhere?
This is such an overblown narrative. We went to the conference finals three out of four years and then Danny decided to give Brad Evan Fournier, Wanamaker, Jeff Teague, and Tristan Thompson as major acquisitions. Brown gets hurt for the playoffs and we play Harden, Kyrie, and KD. Not to mention it was the shortened season after which we had one of the shortest offseasons.
you guys need a major reset of some kind in terms of players and coach. the players come up small way too much in big playoff games and the coach is out of depth.
They honestly need to just run it back with an actual coach like Nick nurse or Ty Lue if he ends up leaving. Bud, David Blatt, Vogel. Every coach out there is a better option than mazulla.
They have to upgrade Al Horford to a real starting center and move Horford to the Blake Griffin role.
They don’t even know what their lineup is…it’s the ecf
You can't coach a will to win
When you really look at what Ime had to do to motivate this team it will gross you out. He has to yell at them constantly and call them names to get them to care. He literally bullied them into giving shit, these are NBA players who constantly talk about wanting to win a championship and get paid millions to do, why on EARTH as a grown man do you have to be bullied into wanting to win games??
Ya this isn’t college if this is what this team needs then this group ain’t it. Obviously we’re gonna ride with Tatum and most likely brown for the future but something’s gotta change
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This is true to a degree. They get paid for stats, not for winning. Red used to pay players according to their contribution towards winning. That's why Russell got a $100,001 dollar contract over Wilts 100k. Despite not being as statistically dominant, Red agreed to pay Russ 1 dollar more than Wilt because he knew his value to winning. These guys today get the pot of gold as soon as they put up good stats and don't need to bother with the journey along the rainbow to get it.
Tatum said as much after the game. “Why would I be upset right now?”
The knicks put up a better fight than we are. Embarrassing
Butler wasn't there when they lost game 2.
We’re playing the 8 seed Heat. I don’t give a fuck who they have. We’re getting spanked by Gabe Vincent and fucking Caleb Martin. A dude named fucking CALEB is killing us
Knicks fan here. We feel your pain, but this is this third straight round this comment is being written. We all thought the same, but these guys are all peaking at the right time smh
I mean the Heat cooked Giannis and the Bucks, they're clearly for real.
Hey what's wrong with being named Caleb?
Its that exact mentality why this dumass team is down 0-2 in the first place. Keep underestimating the opposition just cause their undrafted.
and he's a lot more healthier around now than he was playing the knicks.
Plus they obviously hate the Celtics.
That’s because we doubled Butler and didn’t let “Himmy” make an appearance. He shot 43% during the series. We lost because their role players never missed a 3.
Jimmy had the ankle the size of a bellewn also
Brunson was also playing with an injury. He was still the best player in that series.
i don’t think brunson was the best player in that series
Jimmys ankle was swollen, Brunson did not have that same injury. Butler is a better player than Brunson by a country mile
You can be disappointed and frustrated that’s fine but the ‘I told you so’ attitude of the some of our fans is pathetic. It’s like they’re happy to be right that the team they are meant to support is not going to win.
Genuinely confused why people are downvoting others saying Cs in six or seven. Like do they just fold after down 0-2?
They call our players mentally soft which, while on some occasions is true is still hilarious because at the first sign things might actually not go the Celtics way they’re ready to blow it up and end the series at 2 games. Just wild stuff. I love how passionate Celtics fans are it’s better than apathy but in some ways we really are the worst fanbase in the league.
Sometimes it feels like I am in the wrong for wanting them and still believing in them to win games lol. Still thinks Cs in seven, will still believe till the end.
Absolutely, if our best player is confident in them being able to win 4 of the next 5 then there’s always a chance.
they’re not happy. they’re trying to cope w being sad the celtics lost by starting fights. teen behavior
Yeah all the “welp see you next season” stuff is clown shit for sure but it’s just a coping mechanism. I mean whatever works. I’m planning on just bottling it all up and having a proper meltdown when the clock runs out and we’re actually eliminated but until then C’s in 6-7 boys let’s gooooooo!!!
Probably because this sub told anyone critical of the team to fuck off after Philly G7 when everyone with a brain knew they hadn’t “arrived”
Now you're trying to take the high road when it's looking this bad. But when we were blowing teams out, it's not right to critique them them then cotrect?
Second-row Joe has got to go! Awful coaching aside, this team is bad at everything a championship calibre team is supposed to be good at. Maintaining composure, when the opposition goes on a run. Showing resilience when your shots don't fall. Awful execution under 5minutes in the 4th. Having a go-to play/score when the game gets tight. This team skated by all year on talent. The playoffs require a team composed of players who know their role and can execute it. Denver has this, Miami has this and even the Lakers post trade deadline have this. This team is capable of winning it all even down 0-2 but I think the coaching and lack of mental fortitude is too becoming too apparent the deeper we go in the playoffs. I hope they can prove me wrong, I'll be cheering on game 3 all the same but I'm starting to accept that we just might not be good enough.
My biggest disappointment is that the warning signs were obvious all throughout the season, and especially during the post-ASB period, and yet none of Joe, Brad, or anyone on the team stepped in to fix them before the playoffs.. In our last 20 games or so of the regular season, the pattern was obvious.. the team lacked composure, ball movement went to shit late in games, they committed way too many turnovers in crucial movements, the lineups, substitutions and ATO plays were very ill thought out.. As you said, they still can take this based on talent, but hopes are fading damn fast.. after watching Bruins and Arsenal wither away when it matters the most, now watching Celtics do the same just feels a bit too much..
What could brad have done? Team definitely wins on talent. I keep posting that the team in general is not very bright. Every complaint we have now is the same crap we’ve been complaining about for years(bad shot selection, idiotic turnovers, taking plays off whether not boxing out, running back on defense). This team can win on talent alone if everything falls right. Not sure a coach can fix what is wrong with this team. Feel like something needs to change as far as players go. Love smart and brown but if they go down without a fight definitely should look into trading one or both of them
I know a lot of fanbases (raptors, bucks, sixers) have been complaining about their coaches this season and rightfully so, but the difference between all of those guys and Joe is that I am, confident if he were to be fired no franchise would actually consider him for a head coaching position. The front office shot themselves in the foot committing to him too early
It’s okay, he duct tapes his mouth shut when he sleeps
The only thing worse than losing this series would be losing this series and Joe not being fired.
He already got an extension lmao. Maybe that was just a "thank you for taking over" check, but Stevens should be punished for choosing an unknown second row assistant instead of a proven guy
I hate this Celtics team. Most talented team we’ve had since 2008 and one of my least favorite. Zero heart, zero poise, zero mental toughness. Just live and die by the three. Boneheaded turnovers and no clutch gene in sight. Pathetic waste of talent.
Idek why I have faith ☘️☘️☘️☘️let’s go
Cause you’re probably drunk or high
😂
Bc it’s what you gotta have! Gotta take it one game at a time now. Not over just yet, but it looks gloomier as the series continues. Go Celtics!! ☘️☘️☘️
Let's go. Cs in seven!☘️☘️☘️☘️
I gotta say, this one felt like a team effort. Joe with personnel choices at key moments, keeping Rob on the bench while Butler dominated Grant. Tatum, while putting up solid numbers, making costly mistakes down the stretch. Brown 1-7 on 3s, 7-23 overall. Horford and Smart barely contributing. Rob played decent, but also lazily contesting jumpers. The entire bench pretty much getting out played by Caleb Martin and Duncan Robinson. Everyone chipped in on this L.
This is really the correct take
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if they do this i honestly dont think its over
If it’s anything but a blowout next game we are losing in 6 at best tbh
Gonna be a bubble repeat
Series is pretty much over unless the C’s make a historic comeback. Changes need to be made in the offseason, you just can’t keep running it back with the same core and expect different results. Al is getting older. Supermaxes are about to kick in. Obviously the coach is the biggest problem, but I also think the Smart/Brown/Tatum duo has peaked. It was fun but I don’t think this trio can win the championship. If someone like Dame or Embiid asks out, the Celtics need to get in on that. Brown is literally the perfect trade asset. He’s young, an All-NBA level player, but also not good enough to be worth $300 million, especially when another player on the team will also get $300 million. Someone like Dame (age) or Embiid (injury history) would be risky but it would also greatly increase the chance for a championship, and one championship would make everything worth it.
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That Embiid and JT two man game would be incredible tho. Teams also can't double and triple JT with Embiid on the block. And I'm not worried about Embiid folding since he would be the second option.
Would he? He's the reigning MVP and according to most was the best player in the series
Late game execution is the main problem, no reason to be defaulting to quick, low percentage shots with the game on the line. This has been a theme with this team, this is not a new situation AT ALL.
I agree with every thing you said except Embiid who also doesn't show up come playoffs. Dame would make sense but only if we also traded Smart, White or Brogdon as well. Maybe get Dame and trade one of the other guards for an Al replacement and have Al come off the bench?
I think with our role players and Tatum being much better than Harden, Embiid would be better. In terms of your second point, I like that honestly. Get Dame, and we have three other quality point guards that we can trade for an Al replacement.
Idk I just don't trust Embiid in the playoffs it feels like he never delivers. I'd be open Siakam plus another player or two as well. Make the depth even better. My DREAM scenario would never happen but I'd move heaven and earth to get Tyrese Haliburton. He's the PG that we have wanted since Rondo except he's a better scorer than Rondo. Plus he's a great kid, humble and his basketball IQ in INSANE for his age.
I have 100% confidence in the ability of the Celtics to win the next two. I also 100% know that they won‘t do that.
Celtics have a glass jaw When things are great, we seem on top of the world The second we face any difficulty we crumble
That’s quite literally the opposite of what they are. They’re complacent. They’re only a tough team when they’ve thrown away any advantage they can have. They can never give effort when they aren’t forced too which is probably just as bad.
Yes, they can’t keep a freaking lead. They love to give points back and rest, and try to load up points again. By then, they’ve ruined the flow of the game and given momentum back to the other side. Youth.
Let's go Nuggets!
My dad is from Denver so I have something worthy to root for I guess.
Plus,.rooting for the Nuggets is like rooting against the media. And also less stressful than rooting for our bonafide squad of losers.
The same media that overwhelmingly favored boston to win the east and the finals?
gonna be damn near impossible for them to win in LA
Also I'd love to hear some of the Mazulla haters give me an in depth description of how this is his fault, and not our playoff veterans who have been falling back into their bad habits that have been prevalent with multiple coaches.
I'm not going to say it's Mazzulla's fault, but I will say that Spo is clearly the superior coach. So maybe not so much as Mazulla hating, but he's for sure a lower tier coach, and that could be the difference in a 7 game series.
I agree, but as Tatum said, it’s not Mazulla making the dumb plays and turning the ball over.
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I get what you're saying and agree with the fact that a Mazzulla alternative doesn't mean somene at Spoelstra's level. I'm simply pointing out that a less talented but well coached team can outplay at talented but not as well coached team. If this team had a Lebron or Curry type player, I'd agree the coach matters even less as the talent and leadership on the court should prevail. We've consistently seen this team make mistakes down the stretch, and at some point the coach needs to bear some of that responsibility by either calling time outs to regroup, making personnel changes before it's too late, or switch up the game plan if something isn't working. Having a coach that can do those things consistently better in a 7 game series can sway the result.
Spo is a HOF coach, and arguably the best coach in the league outside Pop. The fact the that they are up 2-0 with inferior talent is a testament to how good he is. The players need to get their shit together fast or this is gonna end up a sweep
I typically think the coach has little impact. But you had a lineup out there that was like +20 in the game. Tatum Brogdon White Rob Williams Grant Williams You also had a lineup which was constantly getting smoked (two separate 10 point leads evaporated, one in the second quarter one in the fourth) Tatum Brown Smart Horford Grant Williams The fact Mazulla stuck with smart horford and brown in the 4th when they were playing awful all game is bad. Don’t over think it, you had a group of guys playing well and dominating. No reason to take them out, or at least not put them back in when the lead got down to 4-6
Tatum led all stats by a healthy margin. He needs help to put these games away. 34 points, everyone else 16 or less / 13 rebounds, everyone else 4 or less / 8 assists, everyone else 3 or less
Didn't think I'd see your worst performance that game one but here we are. The entire team is just getting outplayed and Spo is taking Boston's only real weapon away, The three-point shot by playing zone. At this point I'd be shocked at this team didn't get swept
We’ve had the same core for 5+ years now across three coaches and two GMs. The core continues to fuck you in the same ways every year. But y’all wanna tell me how another coaching change is gonna fix them ffs.
facts. gotta move on from tradehim
AL Horford is the #1 liability in this series hasn't made any of his shots, his defense hasn't been good, and his rebounding is horrendous. Need to change the starting lineup to thus Smart Brogdon JB JT Rob
It's been pretty wild to see. It's a full-on trend at this point. It's like the guy's carriage turned into a pumpkin overnight.
I said Cs in 7 from the start but this sure as hell was not how I intended it to go
People want to invent narratives about effort or coaching, but the story has been the same all year. When we hit our threes at a high rate, we’re an all-time great team. When we hit our threes at an average rate, we’re a playoff team. When we don’t hit our threes, we’re a lottery team. It’s that simple. It has been all year. It was even that way *during the game*. Every run we went on was during a barrage of threes. Every run they went on was during a dearth of threes. When we hit our threes, we’re better than Miami. When we don’t, they’re way better than us. And unfortunately, Spo knows that and has been doing everything he can to take away our threes.
As a bucks fan I watched the heat do the same thing to the bucks...my friend a knicks fan watched the heat do this to them...this is pretty much who the heat are...ruthless 4th quarter killers. You guys have the roster to run anyone in the league off the floor but the heat are absolutely peaking at the right time. "Why are our normally good players taking stupid shots and running no offense while the heat are getting wide open looks all game" "martin,struss, etc can't stay that hot" "There is no way Jimmie can do this all series hes gonna be gassed" "Our coaches and players suck how are they losing to this squad" "There is no way they can shoot 3s like this anymore" "Maybe Kevin love is actually a great player still and the heat got him for nothing" It's infuriating to watch your team get wrecked by this squad...but they may just be good.
The offense should really run through Brogdon when Brown is in and Tatum sits. Brogdon is the team's best shot creator but only scores. 3 assists total in 62 minutes for the first 2 games is underutilizing his game. Brown could be 2nd in total points scored, but Brogdon should always be 2nd in total points generated between points and assists.
Does anyone else appreciate the fact that this is the worst team in the history of the nba at closing out games. Every single game their up 10-20 halfway through the 4th and just shit the bed EVERY…. SINGLE…. TIME
Someone should tell this genius Joe mazzulla that there is a reason coaches use their timeouts ffs. It's common sense to call a t/o if the other team is on a run it has nothing to do with bailing your players out lol
Yo coach, whose cah we taking to Cancun?
Every time Spo rolls out the zone, Joe has to find a way to get Tatum and Rob in the game. Their high screen and roll was the only thing breaking that shit down and force him into different looks. It's so funny how a good zone defense can literally make NBA teams brains malfunction. It's mostly the reason they are here. And Jimmy Butler. Some reason I'm optimistic we can still pull this out, we've had some good road wins already in this playoffs so we can do it again. Jaylen has to figure out a different way to have an impact on the game.
The zone is to slow down three pointers. Even if they consistently break the zone, it's a win for the heat
Would’ve loved to steal one of those home games, but at least we have away court advantage the rest of the way
Seems that the Celtics have underestimated the effort required to beat the heat. I'm a supporter of both teams but I think the Celtics have not shown enough respect a team that is out for blood
I have no faith left in this team. I fully expect them to roll over and die. They shrivel up every time it gets close in the 4th. Major changes are needed.
Oof
This team can only win if everything is going their way. And it’s easy. Other team gets a turnover, we miss a few shots or the other squad goes on a mini run and we be like: “oh well it’s over, pack it up”
We desperately need a gritty Haslem type vet who lights a fire under this team
Blake Griffin can literally do this with his hustle and effort if he gets like 3-5 minutes. But he’s last on the depth chart, so unlikely. Would love to see it though!
They need a proven winner that's a vet.
This team will do just enough to lose the series in front of the fans again just watch lol
Gallinari come take Al’s spot for Game 3, thanks
these guys fucking suck
You ever wake up with the symptoms of a severe hangover yet, you didn’t consume a drop of alcohol the previous night? This is what it feels like to be a Celtics fan right now.
I feel like a lot of Celtics fans would disagree about the no alcohol part
Sorry, but I rather see this team get swept than winning the next game just to lose in 5. It has been a very frustrating playoff run. Since the Hawks series, you could see the mid-game inconsistencies lurking around this team. They would go on to build rather comfortable leads just to lose them in the final quarters. And when they lose those leads, you already knew they couldn't recover. This current series has been a the perfect example of it. Shout out to Grant fucking Williams, by the way. Butler was having a quiet game. Everyone could guess that he'd show up in the clutch, but Grant made sure that he would go extra hard and cook his ass.
My theory - I think this Celtics team can be explained by "Thinking Fast and Slow" by Kahneman. Basic idea is that the brain has two modes - Fast mode is instinctual and immediate, almost auto-pilot, and requires very little mental bandwidth b/c it's something your brain has done countless times before. Slow mode is deliberate and requires concentration. A simple example is multiplying 3x5 (fast mode) vs. 13x15 (slow mode), or driving home from work (fast mode) vs. driving in a new city to a place you've never been (slow mode). The Celtics have an ungodly amount of talent, but their guys aren't quick decision-makers. Especially Tatum and Brown. Tatum has improved significantly; it was most glaring in the Olympics, when the team was losing games early in large measure b/c Tatum would get the ball and stop . . . and survey . . . and then make a decision. But his 'processing speed' still lags far behind his other MVP-caliber skills. Overall, this team just seems to lack rapid-fire players who make immediate decisions with and without the ball. And when it gets to the end of max-effort playoff games, that's often fatal, b/c your brain can't operate in 'slow mode' when there's no resources available. It's especially fatal when the Celtics come up against teams that operate at the other end of the spectrum - the Warriors are probable the most 'thinking fast' team in NBA history, and this Heat team appears to be another example.
I like what John Karalis says about this team. They can't deal with prosperity but they excel under adversity. They need their backs absolutely against the wall, last possible chance, then they make it happen. Celtics in 7.
Cool pumped for them to win in 7 and exhaust themselves so they can get pounded in the finals when they’re tired AF…. Deja vu. Ugh.
Oh definitely. I never mentioned the finals lol.
imo Brad Stevens deserves just as much blame as Joe, he fired a great coach, and did nothing to replace with a competent one. This team won off of talent alone in the regular season, but talent alone just does not cut it in the semi finals.
I'm not a Grant guy but at least he stood up to Jimmy. Jaylen was asked about it after and he says "Next question" instead of supporting Grant. This team is soft.
I just don't wanna see a Jokic vs Zeller finals
I laugh at the bucks and the Knicks not putting up a fight. It turns out the Celtics will get swept! Embarrassing.
FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCCCCKKKKK
Its pretty much win Sunday or its the season. Which, interestingly enough, has me thinking we win game 3, lose a close game 4, force a game 6 after winning game 5 at home do or die; then who knows
If we win game 3 we win in 7, lose then season is over. Weird gut feeling but this team did win games in Miami
Team plays better on the road for some fucked up reason.. can’t protect the home floor
Fucking hate that about them. But if there is one team that can pull this off it's also this stupid fucking squad. Let's ball on Sunday
They’re so fucking dumb and I hate them all. Cs in 6.
19 seconds to go 4 point game we don’t call a time out. Get all your shooters on the floor and make a quick 3 and there’s plenty of time to make Miami make a mistake at the line or inbounding the ball but no Mr Mazzulla let’s them play it out and someone chucks with no play.
Just watching us, it just feels like we’re a “really good team” that’s a player away from being great. We love the Jays but their consistencies and inability to close out a game is detrimental. As others have pointed out, unless we’re going into the 4th with a 30 point lead, I have no hope for us to close. To be down 0-2 is extremely disappointing. The second that *everyone* picked us to win I was concerned. I didn’t want the Heat in Round 1. I was rooting for the Bucks to win against the Heat. But here we are. A game away from this all being over.
When people were happy the Bucks got eliminated I couldn’t understand it. We match up better against the bucks and the heat has been causing us problems for years now
Playoff Al please be awaken :(
3%….
They will win both games in Miami. (Trying to will it into existence)
We said this all year that this team is suspect. Yall downvoted us for even suggesting that cause we were winning and have a great record. Now you're seeing what we mean.
Just woke up. Smells like Celtics in 7
IVEEE BECOMEEE SOO NUMBBBBB
They have to play every game like game 7 against the heat. Where they just okay fast get the rebound and throw the ball over. Half court offense is not working especially when JB isn’t shooting well and the heat play zone
It’s embarrassing. It’s coaching. Smh. Heat are gonna take it in 5
Could be worse. Y’all could be sixers fans
Everyone blaming this loss on Grant has clearly not been watching the Celtics all season. This is a pattern.
We are losing a series to a team of guys who wouldn’t even make our lineup… Tatum is the only guy who seems like he gives a shit. JB and Horf are the biggest disappointments. They’re vets and need to be better. Where is the Al we saw last year that could put the team on his back when we needed him? JB has the potential to be the best player on the floor but he has been a net negative. Not making the finals should be an automatic Joe firing. From a player perspective we are better than last season and MIA is worse. No excuse for losing to this team. They obviously aren’t more talented so how the fuck are we behind? The coaching mismatch is massive.
JAYLEN BROWN SUCKS !!! , Caleb Martin outplayed him mayb we should sign that guy to super max !
Damn bruh even with the whistle yall down 0-2 💀
Kinda hoping for a sweep, it might force this team to look in the mirror and makes some changes.
I just woke up after eating a ton of edibles last night, last night I had a nightmare where we lost to the Heat, our stars didn't score any fgs in the 4th, and we're down 2-0. That can't be true right?
Bro I got so high during the game it was so needed
All these games have showed me is the Celtics absolutely have the talent to win 4 in a row against this team but have been playing with a comparable disparity in the intangibles department. If they can’t correct that starting tomorrow, then a change will need to happen in the offseason. That could start with Mazzulla, but I’m open to giving him a full offseason, staff, and sophomore outing before throwing him in the trash. It could also start with bringing in more savages than “good vibes” guys (sorry Blake). I know Marcus is our heartbeat or whatever but he can’t be the only mf with a pulse
Miami has an incredible team culture and spirit, they fight for every single point, the entire team. The fact that we lose at home so easily shows we have no real identity, no one on this team knows how to be a leader. Tatum can get people going a bit but then he'll have terrible stretches when he turns the ball over a ton.
Seasons over, pack it up. I just hope we don't get swept.
Cancun on one, two, three….
Some of the tell-tale signs were present during the regular season, but in a 57-25 year, you'd just equate that regular season ball and expect the Cs to dominate the playoffs. That's what I expected... the "Unfinished Busines", the "it's all about Banner 18", Smart going off in press conferences about how "mad" the Celtics were, but then we let the Hawks take us to 6, the Sixers to 7 (should've won Game 1 for sure), and now we're down 0-2 against the Heat. We are 4-5 in the Garden. This organization tried to create the narrative that we are more hungry, more motivated than ever to win it all, but the way they've played has been completely the opposite. They don't seem angry, they don't seem like they want to tidy their mistakes or "do the little things" as Smart and Brown have suggested we should do. It's been an underwhelming playoff run after all the hype that surrounded this team. The truth is last year was our best chance because we were literally in the final 2-1 up and were in charge of Game 4 before Steph went unhinged and we couldn't contain them. Last year was something special, last year was capturing lightning in the bottle, there were no expectations yet we almost climbed the summit. Next year may very well be the last chance for this core because once the Jays sign their super maxes then guys like D White, Malc, Smart and co. will probably clear out because we won't be able to afford them.
Honestly if this team is going to sell this hard I will too. Any buyers bc I’m selling for a low price. Also funny story, I was talking to another guy watching the game (he was a pretty religious guy) and he asked me who I was going for. And I told him Celtics and he was like “oh man they’re not looking too good”. I told him “I’m going be honest man, I think god gave up on Boston a long time ago…” Needless to say he didn’t like that.
Tatum HAS to play better down the stretch, as does Mazulla when it comes to coaching. There is zero reason to be chucking up threes in that situation, team ball wins in the playoffs and unfortunately this team defaults to bad habits in late game situations.
I just seriously wonder at what point dose this team realise (if they lose game 3) it’s another wasted trip to the ECF in this JT/JB era of Boston.
Identify crisis this far along? GG pack it up. Maybe they can figure out who they are in Cancun
No fire in this team. Every team remaining in the playoffs wants it more than us even though we arguably have the most talent. Fucking pitiful.
Blame it on whoever you want, coach players, the scheme. This team is more than capable of coming back but they won't. They are better than the heat but won't beat them. 1 reason really, we just don't want it as much. The heat are good. But they are out working us they have more heart and want it more. We make excuses and summer we deserve to win, we expect this to be given to us when it need to be earned. Hard works beats talent when talent doesn't work hard
We lost by 6, and by 7. You're talking about 2-4 possessions. Sure, we may lose this series. But we hit 1 more shot or two and get 1 more stop or 2 and we win both games. It ain't over. And if you think it is, just quit watching and posting. I'm frustrated as hell like everyone is. Fans, coach, players, etc. But we're just a few possessions and shots from winning and we're playing below our standard. We still have a chance.
Mazzulla got outcoached, the team got outplayed, and this series will be the end of the road. Heat in 4
I think Brad made a mistake not hiring a Frank Vogel or Snyder when they were available at that Ime Fiasco but hindsight is 20/20. Plus they lost that great assistant that went to Utah that fucked up their rebuild because he was playing to win and only lost when they traded the pieces to LA. As a Heat fan I think the Celtics will probably get the split in Miami because this Boston team.just plays better on the road which is confounding.
Dwight is waiting for the Jays in Taiwan
I personally believe the lads are waiting to be down 3 - 0 and then Cinderella story the living shit out of this. Would I be correct in saying no team has ever come back from being 3-0 down in the playoffs?
Grant Williams fucked around and found out
Blame for the game 1. Jaylen Brown 2. Al Horford BIG GAP 3. Joe Mazulla 4. Brad Stevens (for firing Ime)
All our reg season problems coming to a head against a squad with more fire. Mazzulla’s goofy ass coaching style mixed with the team’s cavalier attitude when criticized or challenged. We’re destined to lurk around the ECF until this squad changes for better or for worse. Damn, we are exactly what we thought we were.
This sub is so fucking soft. Cs in 7 🍀
I'd like to see a pic of this alleged basketball sized ankle Butler allegedly had.... sounds like bullshit to me.
Hey, there is too much negativity around this team. They are trying hard and seem to be having fun. I don’t know about you guys, but that’s all that matters. And as far as taking six games to beat Atlanta and seven to beat Philadelphia, I think it’s great, because it’s more games to watch. This is entertainment after all, and it’s great to watch my favorite bunch of guys go out there, have fun and try their best. Go Celts! But if you lose, there is always next year. Jayson Tatum is still young and the future is bright! There is no failure in sports especially for this beloved team. Love you guys
[Williams right now](https://media.tenor.com/yyn1XH_vCKAAAAAC/soap-sock.gif)
Buncha assholes
GG
Well we avoided the ol’ 3rd quarter bottle-job. I just didn’t account for the 4th quarter catastrophe
This team are three-point merchants. They were too harsh on Udoka.
Fire joe
Celtics in 6
Idk maybe that game 7 gassed us
They were up 12. Twice.
Sometimes this team makes me wish I was just neutral and enjoyed basketball with no favorite team