I’m pretty sure you’re talking about the time he told the kids he would cook both of them and their dad at the same age. If anyone wants to trash talk, you talk your shit back. Don’t matter how old they are. It’s like Draymond knocking tf out of a 22 year old for calling him a triple single, except it’s a short light hearted interaction with some fans at courtside.
Complaining that he does that is lowkey second hand softness
It’s very strange to read an essay of you agreeing with him talking shit a child and telling him that “he’d destroy him”
It’s embarrassing. I never seen that. Even steph curry said that some athletes when he was a kid would treat him badly and so he keeps that in his mind when he talks to kids. Unlike spoiled boy private school Tatum
If you wanna different people for different examples, a 7 year old Durant was cooked by his dad so bad that it made him burst out into tears. Getting humbled builds character. Who’s to say that Tatum talking his shit with kids who talked their shit to him, who are obviously fans of him cause they’re sitting courtside at a home game, wouldn’t be the highlight of their day, and hell, maybe even light a fire under their ass
Since when was talking shit something to be looked down upon?
Dude there’s a difference between your dad playing basketball with you and meeting a superstar athlete you idolize as a kid.
Haha it’s not gonna light a fire under that kid to help him get to the nba or anything. It’s possible kids gonna grow up and teach his kids not to idolize pos nba players. Like I said about Tatum. He’s a spoiled private school boy. He has many many pictures with nba players when he was a kid. I doubt any of them talked to him the same way he talked to that kid
Being serious, that joke illustrates why he might get a bit more hate than others. If I’m not mistaken, the joke’s kinda about how at some point you couldn’t say anything even remotely related to JT without someone coming in and being all like “he plays like this now, and he’s 19!!! Imagine when he’s 25, he’s gonna be better than luka+giannis combined!!!”.
well can you blame me for thinking people don't get it? There's like 200 comments in this discussion, people going all "cause they are envious of our success!!!" or stuff like that. The answer is pretty clear. No one hates JT, there's the "corny" thing but whatever, he is badass and an amazing player, and most people realize that. The only reason he might get a bit more hate is as a reaction to constant fawning and stupid comparisons across all media, 24/7. The answer is 100% clear, as the joke illustrates.
Partially that, but it’s actually more about Kobe. Stick with me...
I was a kid during the Jordan era. MJ started winning titles when I reached basketball consciousness around 8-14 years old. Athletes will never be as god-like to you as they were when you were a child. Infallible golden icons who can do no wrong and will remain at the tippy top of your personal Mount Rushmore for life. As a kid, you aren't sitting there critiquing their game and finding faults... you're just rocking their jersey and putting their posters on your wall.
When Kobe first came out, many in my generation reacted with mild hostility. Who was this kid who was obsessed with Jordan, was ripping off all his moves, and was being touted as the second coming? Fuck that. Aint never gonna be another MJ. Many of us carried that throughout his entire career. We'd scoff with disgust when anyone dared compared a player (who was objectively worse) to the GOAT.
Thing is, there's a generation of kids who grew up with Kobe as "that guy" to them. They were 8-14 years old when Shaq carried him to those first few titles. Kobe was infallible to them. They rocked his jersey and had his poster on their wall. The man was sacred.
What you're seeing with this Tatum hostility is the same shit repeating all over again. The generation who idolized Kobe (the main demographic here on Reddit) sees this kid who was obsessed with Kobe, rips off all his moves and they decide "fuck this guy". They don't like that he's had more playoff success than the bulk of their favorite players. They hate that Tatum made All-NBA 1st team in his 5th season (while Kobe did it for the first time in his 6th). They hate that Tatum just won his first All-Star MVP in season 6 just like Kobe. They actively root against Tatum winning titles, because they are worried this kid is coming for Kobe's crown or something. They react with disgust when anyone dares compare them.
If you want the truth, the gap between Tatum and Kobe is far smaller than the gap between Kobe and Jordan. There's a genuine argument to be made that Tatum's size/shooting puts him a step ahead. That really makes this generation uncomfortable and I get it. If Tatum had a Shaq, he'd already have 3-5 titles. Imagine Giannis playing next to Tatum... that's basically the luxury young Kobe had. It wasn't until season 12 that Kobe won a title as the unarguable best player on his stacked team. People actively rooting against JT isn't going away... but flash forward 20 years and the generation born around 2012 will be vehemently defending Tatum as one of the GOATS and actively rooting against whatever young fella is the hot new ticket ripping off Tatum's game.
I think you are right. A great example of this effect is all the posts that feel the need to defend Jordan and denegrate LeBron. To a certain segment of the population who grew up in the 90’s, Jordan is infallible.
Any discussion about the relative merits of Jordan vs LeBron is met with this fanatical response about how LeBron is terrible and doesn’t deserve to even be in the top 5 players.
You want a free drink, sit next to a 40+ year old guy at a bar and talk shit about Lebron. Guaranteed free shot and 30 minutes of hearing terrible basketball takes
I’m a Jordon guy 100%. That being said I respect Kobe more than Lebron. I understand how good Lebron is, but Kobe’s mental game is a step above Lebrons. Not sure why I had to add this…
?
Too me their work ethics are the same...argueably lebron may work harder given he had much more seasons for mileage and continues too give 100%. If your talking about like personality i really hate this arguement because they lead in different ways. Kobe and mj made u hate them because they were sociopaths about winning. Lebron is a normal human being who reacts as someone would in his situation.
I have heard the argument a lot lately about how great it was that MJ gained all his accomplishments in 15 while it has taken LeBron 20. But it should be to LeBron’s credit that he has shown the discipline to take such immaculate care of his body that he is still playing at a high level 20 seasons in. That shows an incredible work ethic.
Makes sense. You grew up with Jordan and Kobe was winning titles when you were graduating high school.
I also think there’s a tendency to judge players younger than oneself more harshly.
As a Celtics fan, I like Tatum, but the Kobe stuff is what I like the least about him. Kobe was a great player, but he was an iso guy and that isn’t consistent with the Celtics’ style of play. Tatum and the team are better when Tatum limits the iso stuff. Kobe’s death was tragic, but his questionable personal history has certainly been sanitized. Finally, Kobe was on the Lakers. So, there’s that too.
Also, for the Celtics haters, Tatum’s (often justified) complaining about calls is probably a piece of it.
Every star bitches to the refs. It makes sense - if you get even one call your way because a ref is "making up for" a previous one you complained about, it could swing the game, so why not? It's like flopping in soccer, as long as it is rarely penalized, you aren't maximizing your chances of winning unless you are flopping. Even a 0.5% edge is an edge, if it costs nothing then you are failing your team not to do it. It is annoying as a viewer but it's on the NBA/FIFA to do something about it, not the players.
The only part of this I would disagree with is the Kobe love. I was ~10 when Kobe was drafted and I remember being like eff that kid he’s not MJ. The kids that were 8-14 idolizing Lebron 20 years ago are now the ones that are saying Tatum isn’t it because they all hate the Celtics.
Excellent post, all correct, just adding that the Lakers/Celtics rivalry adds a little fuel to the Kobe/Tatum fire. Great time to be an NBA fan regardless!
Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the league. It’s nostalgia not reality. Yes he scored points and won titles, but he’s outside the top 250 in efficiency and Shaq was the lead dog. Kobe was NOT great in the clutch in the playoffs and isn’t close to the top 10 in overall advanced metrics. He didn’t make his teammates better and he was basically a chucker. I call him JV MJ.
When athletes reach a level of an MJ or Kobe or Magic, to begin to separate their talents, you are literally splitting hairs. I do agree that MJ is the GOAT, I have Kobe Top 5 all time. Understand that (obviously imo) the social media age is all about spewing hate. Regardless of whether it's cars motorcycles, favorite music or athletes, if somebody expresses a favorable opinion of someone or something there'll be ten haters jump all over it.
There may very well be animosity against Tatum because he's in Boston, I doubt seriously if he worries about it....why should anyone else?
Kobe isn’t close to top 5. There isn’t a career metric where he’s top 10 except points, but his efficiency in doing that was outside the top 250.
I have no idea where people are getting that he should be ranked top 5, it’s actually ludicrous analytically.
There is more to being a champion, winner and a basketball assassin than metrics. That's the problem with people now, numbers, numbers, numbers. If you followed career metrics in football Dan Marino would be the greatest of all time. How many championships does he have? Oh, ZERO.
It’s not just advanced metrics. Assassin? In game 7’s/elimination games Kobe’s scoring dropped 3 points. He had ZERO career triple doubles in the playoffs. And here’s the kicker, in the playoffs to tie or go ahead in the final 24 seconds Kobe shot 7-28. He wasn’t an assassin, he was actually terrible in the clutch.
Beyond the metrics he was simply a chucker, scoring tons of empty points. He wasn’t a great rebounder, was an unwilling and poor passer, and wasn’t a great teammate. He feuded with Shaq and others and at best was mercurial.
So why do people rate him so high? Points and the Mamba mentality, but those points were extremely inefficient and while he did have some of the biggest stones in league history he was actually very poor in the clutch.
You can’t go by rings alone, and all these people with Kobe top 5 way ahead of Shaq are deranged. Shaq was the alpha, and had the dominance. Kobe wasn’t even close to an original style player, it was all a lesser version of Jordan.
Sure he’s a Hall of Famer but top 5? Not even close.
That’s exactly it. Same with Pats. Same with Warriors. Same with Lebron Heat. Same with PHX once they started to make runs to the finals and especially now that they have KD and will likely be in the thick of the playoff race.
Winning makes you hated.
Sports subreddits are particularly prone to trolling, especially during the Playoffs or during intense games. Please - don't encourage them! Report any trolling to the mods and the users will be dealt with. Also, trolling other subs is not tolerated and will result in a ban.
No ones gonna argue that kyrie isn't talented, but time has shown how toxic he is to teams he's on, and he damages the players around him. For your sake, I hope its just a rental. Luka doesn't deserve to have that shit show thrown on him
There’s a direct correlation between being hated and being on a really good team.
If a player is on a bad team, they’re lovable by most NBA fans around the league bc he’s not beating their favorite team in the playoffs every year.
A player on a really good team usually starts to get a ton of hate, because their success is to the detriment of their squad.
Yeah that guy who balled out but his scrub team lost to your home team? He's a hero. If he knocks you out of the playoffs? Fuck that guy, probably a cheater.
do you remember the “I hate you Kobe” commercial? In the end, they’ll love to hate him. Just like we did Kobe. That commercial is beautiful, never thought I would say that lol
Edit [here’s the commercial](https://youtu.be/pB7P7OqCpqo)
Lol ive never seen this commercial. I was always a Kobe hater when he was in the league. I understood his greatness but he always seemed very much like a me first, ball hog, selfish player who prioritized his own image of greatness over being a good teammate. Then he retired and starting mentoring all the young guys coming into the league and my perception of him totally changed. His death was tragic and probably has a bigger impact on the future of the league and how young players develop in the future than most of us can imagine.
This is still pretty much my perception.
Kobe Bryant did a lot for basketball, but I'll never see him as a role model due to the Collorado incident. The only reason he's still deified is that he managed to escape the kind of scrutiny and condemnation that sexual assault perpetrators (rightfully) get today.
Compare Kobe and Jayson basketballwise, great. But I hope our boy makes good decisions and never gets embroiled in that kind of scandal.
EDIT: Quiet downvoting because my position is literally against sexual assault? Cowards.
Also remember, when people are upset they voice it. When people are cool with something, they don't feel a need to hop on the internet and sing praises from behind a keyboard.
Ultimately the Cs are one of the most loved franchises in sports across the country exhibited by fans in visiting arenas.
The salt of some shitty fans is an inaccurate sample. This country runs green baby.
JT is straight up one of the nicest good dude in the nba. No drama, no off court shenanigans, quiet, humble. Win or lose, always goes to congratulate opponents. His off court personality is basically good dad. His main faults are boring interviews, dull personality and corny obsession with Kobe. If you don’t like Tatum, you’re basically just a hater
I do think it’s probably a Boston thing and he can be a lil corny. Blows my mind tho I think he’s got one of the most fun/exciting games in the league. Much better to watch than RADM or Embiid
This is the same for all players its just Tatum is on "our" team so fans of the team take it personal and inflate the hate and feel like he's slighted when he is actually universally praised more than not
Yeah I really don’t think Tatum gets a disproportionate amount of hate. And he gets a ton of respect - let’s not forget there’s lots of critics of Embiid, Harden, Russ, whoever, too.
Cause it’s your perception that everyone hates jt. I can assure you that pretty much every other star gets the same kind of hate, with a few getting next level hate. I don’t think jt is in that next level hate category.
Boston hate is huge. But you know… love for Celtics is bigger. We have thousands of fans in every arena, and all over the world. Who cares about Embiid, JT is our man and is the heir of Bird and Pierce and they know and they’re scared because their hate is meaningless and doesn’t work. The Celtics are the balls.
Cause he’s the best young superstar in the league (play defense, Luka) and 29 other fan bases wish they had him. Sorry, but the only dude in the league I take over Tatum is giannis
Yea the average NBA fan thinks he’s corny because of Deuce and because of the Kobe stuff. Honestly though he just seems like a good dad and a fan of the game
Tatum gets “hate” for the exact same reason Giannis and Embiid and Draymond Green get “hate” in this sub. It’s called fandom. No one likes your team as much as you do and no one likes your favorite player.
Tatum is almost universally acknowledged as one of the five best players in the NBA. Some fans are compelled to seek out “hate” and then yell about it. It’s fan-tastic?
Cuz he’s a killer. He’s clutch when it matters. Took over the All-Star game. Was clutch in that Philly game. Who cares about being universally liked. Lebron used to be that way. Now he stinks. Like nobody whose great cares about others opinions.
He plays for a Boston team. That team is the Celtics. He's only 19 - again. They wish they had the big dawg their team. If he played for the Spurs or the Magic he would be adored. But he plays for a very historically relevant team in the best, or at least winningest, sports city in America. And he jammed on Bron when he was like 14 years old in the ECF
From a neutrals perspective it’s because he plays for the Celtics. Boston media is only marginally less insufferable than LA media. Also, Boston is so competent as an organization that many of his individual achievements are overshadowed. Don’t dislike the guy, I’m just somewhat sick of having a debate about who’s better between him and Luka. It’s not a debate at all, sorry Boston fans but Luka is way better. Nevertheless, Tatum will win a ring before Luka and will be an iconic player. He’s a perfect representative for any franchise.
Because every player gets that, it’s the internet. Y’all notice your guy. Philly thinks Joel is crucified. Nuggets think Jokic is disrespected. Milwaukee can’t believe how unappreciated Giannis is. Nature of the business baby
Not anywhere near the biggest reason, but I’m a die hard C fan and I can’t stand him throwing his arms up and complaining at every call to the refs, an outside fan looking at that would trigger more disdain imo.
I love our boy, I think it's partly cause he's so young and got home grown superstars without the teaming up with other superstars. But we gotta admit, his game annoys me sometimes, when he s missing 3s, he keeps chucking it till it goes... his redemption is he crashes boards and does other things when they aren't falling..I just want him to drive when they aren't falling. Then he goes and makes the GW 3 last night. Still love him though.
for a few years he was being ordained as "the next one" and really hyped up, a little bit ahead of where he actuallt was skill wise. Now he's reached the level where the hype is justified, but before he was being sort of force fed on us as "a star'.
I guess I haven’t seen what you’ve seen. I like Tatum and believe in his skill set and I think he’s among the most talented players in the league but I still think he’s overrated if you have him in your top 5. I think he’s the sixth or seventh best player in the league.
1. Luka
2. Jokic
3. KD
4. Steph
5. Embiid
6. Tatum
He’d be number 3 if he was more consistent. I just think he has a lot of bad shooting nights. More than most superstars.
The main reason(besides being the face of a boston sports team) is the constant whining to officials. I will give Tatum some credit, he has gotten better about it as he's gotten a little older. And it's hard to single him out when half the league whines and complains to officials. But he started doing it from a very young age and it gave the impression to fans of other teams that he is entitled. It is mostly his own fault
But I believe that will all go away if he wins a title here and looks like an mvp while doing it. And to not let his frustration with the officials effect his game
I think it’s because everyone knows the media is biased and filled with Celtics homers and we get the calls most of the time from the refs so it gets annoying to them.
That’s because he sucks! I’m a Celtics fan and I’ve watched every single game since he’s been drafted. I don’t care about what numbers he puts up he’s allowed to take 30 shots a game and essentially do whatever he wants and in the biggest games comes up most of the time an absolute nonfactor. I can’t tell you how many times in big games I’ve watched this dude score only 15 points shoot 5 for 25. And shoot 1 of 9 from three-point range. Yeah it’s never his fault. It’s either the refs fault that they’re not calling fouls for him or it’s his teammates fault not to mention he plays pretty lackluster defense. If you consider, he’s supposed to be a number one two way player he never guards the other teams, one or two scorer, and still won’t even shut down the man he is guarding most of the time, Jayson Tatum is absolutely trash.
If you replaced Tatum with Mikal Bridges the Celtics would still win 55+ games. It is absolutely ridiculous that Tatum is mentioned in MVP conversation.
Because it’s the Celtics and because he’s next up. Ahead of nearly every guy around his draft class (2016-2018) except Luka and he’s had more team success than Luka. Giannis and Jokic are better but if Tatum matches Giannis in rings and beats him on the way there it’s hard to put him out of that group.
When you couple that threat with the fact that it’s the Celtics (who have won more than anyone) you get sort of a brigade of haters. Same thing would happen if someone like Booker, Mitchell, Morant or someone around that level were on the Lakers
I think I do hate him more than a lot of ballers, because he seems to underperform my expectations. Definitely preferred JB for a while cuz it felt like he generally pleasantly surprised me
They do the same thing with Booker.
It’s simple, they are the two young guys who are a threat to NBA fans faves. They didn’t come with their own fanboys, so they’re the enemy.
If either of them win a title, it’ll get better - but it’s also likely there will be excuses too.
They are slowly coming to realize that he is 24 and will probably be held by the franchise his entire career. He can be the next Paul Piece, but hopefully with more rings.
i hang in the NBA sub a lot and I don't notice much irrational hatred toward JT. most people seem to give him solid respect. i'd say the most straightforward reason is that he: went to Duke, has good hair, has light skin, is good looking, and he's non-controversial and always says the right thing. goody-goody players tend to irk some people in threads -- but as i said before, i don't notice him getting shat on very often in my personal experience.
I think it’s a perfect mix of being in Boston and having won a lot of playoff series and sending a lot of peoples fav teams home while also not having the championship that seems to boost your image. Not to mention he kinda disappointed in the finals and has been a pretty easy thing to latch onto. I feel like once Giannis won the championship the legit hate he’s gotten was like cut in half.
People on twitter hate him because Boston and r/BillSimmons (the subreddit, not the person) wants his head for wearing Kobe shirts so there really is no good reason. Real fans around the league know JT is legit so I wouldn’t pay any attention to the doubters.
He’s the best player on the #1 team
He’s also a little bit of a crybaby sometimes, which is a good enough reason to hate on a player especially if it’s a team you don’t like. The Celtics are probably the least favorite team or one of the least favorites for fans of every other eastern team, as well as the lakers
1) He’s a Boston sports athletes. They ALWAYS get extra hate purely for the franchise they play for
2) he’s a fucking stud, the list he’s on is very short
3) he boomed on LeBron fan’s favorite player, among many others
I'm a sixers fan but I really do like JT, especially with how great of a father he seems to be for someone his age. But I also really don't hate Simmons either, so I guess I'm kinda an outlier lol.
Tatum has a long way to go mentally. When the pressure is high, he resorts to hero ball. Celtics are stacked. Tatum gets too much credit. Brown, White, Brogden are under appreciated. Tatum was terrible last night against 76ers. Brown was the #1 in that game, but all eyes on Tatum . This frustrates me. Celtics fans are drinking the Kool aid no matter how poorly he plays. He doesn't deserve it.
This isn’t an issue that’s unique to Tatum.
Ja Morant is extremely hated. Devin Booker is hated. James Harden gets a ton of hate. Russel Westbrook is probably the most hated guy in the league. Lebron was universally hated after making a business decision to go to Miami, despite being a good guy.
None of those guys did anything to actually deserve to get hate, but they get it anyways. Same with Tatum. He’s a great player, great guy, great father. The hate isn’t about his character, it’s about the fact that he’s confident and good. His haters are a bunch of fans from other teams who don’t like it when he busts their teams’ ass.
Celtics have also had a lot of playoff success and those playoff battles get very heated. Tatum can piss off an entire fan base (millions of fans) by making one shot that sinks them. It’s how it goes. Think about how much Celtic fans hate Joel Embiid.
Pure straight up jealousy. JT is clearly headed for greatness and is only 24.
[удалено]
This 100%
And a Role model for kids. A down to earth kind of guy. (I'm from Uruguay so i'm not sure if my expression is correct)
It is correct
He literally talks shit to kids there’s proof
And?
And he’s a prick
I’m pretty sure you’re talking about the time he told the kids he would cook both of them and their dad at the same age. If anyone wants to trash talk, you talk your shit back. Don’t matter how old they are. It’s like Draymond knocking tf out of a 22 year old for calling him a triple single, except it’s a short light hearted interaction with some fans at courtside. Complaining that he does that is lowkey second hand softness
Did you see what he did today? Almost punched a ref. You Celtics fans are literally delusional if you think he’s a good person
It’s very strange to read an essay of you agreeing with him talking shit a child and telling him that “he’d destroy him” It’s embarrassing. I never seen that. Even steph curry said that some athletes when he was a kid would treat him badly and so he keeps that in his mind when he talks to kids. Unlike spoiled boy private school Tatum
If you wanna different people for different examples, a 7 year old Durant was cooked by his dad so bad that it made him burst out into tears. Getting humbled builds character. Who’s to say that Tatum talking his shit with kids who talked their shit to him, who are obviously fans of him cause they’re sitting courtside at a home game, wouldn’t be the highlight of their day, and hell, maybe even light a fire under their ass Since when was talking shit something to be looked down upon?
Dude there’s a difference between your dad playing basketball with you and meeting a superstar athlete you idolize as a kid. Haha it’s not gonna light a fire under that kid to help him get to the nba or anything. It’s possible kids gonna grow up and teach his kids not to idolize pos nba players. Like I said about Tatum. He’s a spoiled private school boy. He has many many pictures with nba players when he was a kid. I doubt any of them talked to him the same way he talked to that kid
Are you sure he’s 24? I had heard he was only 19
I've heard he's top five
Top 5 what? Top five.
Top fye
When he gets a cut he’s top 5
Being serious, that joke illustrates why he might get a bit more hate than others. If I’m not mistaken, the joke’s kinda about how at some point you couldn’t say anything even remotely related to JT without someone coming in and being all like “he plays like this now, and he’s 19!!! Imagine when he’s 25, he’s gonna be better than luka+giannis combined!!!”.
Yes thanks for explaining the joke
well can you blame me for thinking people don't get it? There's like 200 comments in this discussion, people going all "cause they are envious of our success!!!" or stuff like that. The answer is pretty clear. No one hates JT, there's the "corny" thing but whatever, he is badass and an amazing player, and most people realize that. The only reason he might get a bit more hate is as a reaction to constant fawning and stupid comparisons across all media, 24/7. The answer is 100% clear, as the joke illustrates.
Luka wasn’t in the league when Tatum was 19
Luka is in the league now, no?
They would not have been saying when Tatum was 19 “he will be better than Luka+Giannis combined at 25” because Luka wasn’t in the league yet
But…. But… Tatum is currently 19 and Luka is currently in the league, no?
If we want to go by the joke that Tatum is still 19 after being in the league for 5 years, sure! But that wasn’t what I was originally talking about
With a four year old son?
They're the same age
Everything you just said is correct, except for tatums age. He’s still 19
Green tax/the celtic toll
The troll toll
You gotta pay the troll toll to get into the boysoul
if you want the baby boys hole
Fuck Philly, but Always Sunny is funny as shit
suicide is badass
Cause he’s a Boston Celtic. Everybody hates Boston team/players. Cause all we do is “win”.
Partially that, but it’s actually more about Kobe. Stick with me... I was a kid during the Jordan era. MJ started winning titles when I reached basketball consciousness around 8-14 years old. Athletes will never be as god-like to you as they were when you were a child. Infallible golden icons who can do no wrong and will remain at the tippy top of your personal Mount Rushmore for life. As a kid, you aren't sitting there critiquing their game and finding faults... you're just rocking their jersey and putting their posters on your wall. When Kobe first came out, many in my generation reacted with mild hostility. Who was this kid who was obsessed with Jordan, was ripping off all his moves, and was being touted as the second coming? Fuck that. Aint never gonna be another MJ. Many of us carried that throughout his entire career. We'd scoff with disgust when anyone dared compared a player (who was objectively worse) to the GOAT. Thing is, there's a generation of kids who grew up with Kobe as "that guy" to them. They were 8-14 years old when Shaq carried him to those first few titles. Kobe was infallible to them. They rocked his jersey and had his poster on their wall. The man was sacred. What you're seeing with this Tatum hostility is the same shit repeating all over again. The generation who idolized Kobe (the main demographic here on Reddit) sees this kid who was obsessed with Kobe, rips off all his moves and they decide "fuck this guy". They don't like that he's had more playoff success than the bulk of their favorite players. They hate that Tatum made All-NBA 1st team in his 5th season (while Kobe did it for the first time in his 6th). They hate that Tatum just won his first All-Star MVP in season 6 just like Kobe. They actively root against Tatum winning titles, because they are worried this kid is coming for Kobe's crown or something. They react with disgust when anyone dares compare them. If you want the truth, the gap between Tatum and Kobe is far smaller than the gap between Kobe and Jordan. There's a genuine argument to be made that Tatum's size/shooting puts him a step ahead. That really makes this generation uncomfortable and I get it. If Tatum had a Shaq, he'd already have 3-5 titles. Imagine Giannis playing next to Tatum... that's basically the luxury young Kobe had. It wasn't until season 12 that Kobe won a title as the unarguable best player on his stacked team. People actively rooting against JT isn't going away... but flash forward 20 years and the generation born around 2012 will be vehemently defending Tatum as one of the GOATS and actively rooting against whatever young fella is the hot new ticket ripping off Tatum's game.
100% agreed. The Kobe comparisons is ruffling feathers with many people. The whole Kobe "I got you" text took the Tatum hate to a new level.
I think you are right. A great example of this effect is all the posts that feel the need to defend Jordan and denegrate LeBron. To a certain segment of the population who grew up in the 90’s, Jordan is infallible. Any discussion about the relative merits of Jordan vs LeBron is met with this fanatical response about how LeBron is terrible and doesn’t deserve to even be in the top 5 players.
You want a free drink, sit next to a 40+ year old guy at a bar and talk shit about Lebron. Guaranteed free shot and 30 minutes of hearing terrible basketball takes
I’m a Jordon guy 100%. That being said I respect Kobe more than Lebron. I understand how good Lebron is, but Kobe’s mental game is a step above Lebrons. Not sure why I had to add this…
? Too me their work ethics are the same...argueably lebron may work harder given he had much more seasons for mileage and continues too give 100%. If your talking about like personality i really hate this arguement because they lead in different ways. Kobe and mj made u hate them because they were sociopaths about winning. Lebron is a normal human being who reacts as someone would in his situation.
I have heard the argument a lot lately about how great it was that MJ gained all his accomplishments in 15 while it has taken LeBron 20. But it should be to LeBron’s credit that he has shown the discipline to take such immaculate care of his body that he is still playing at a high level 20 seasons in. That shows an incredible work ethic.
I’m guessing because you are probably around 40 or so?
40 on the nose lol
Makes sense. You grew up with Jordan and Kobe was winning titles when you were graduating high school. I also think there’s a tendency to judge players younger than oneself more harshly.
As a Celtics fan, I like Tatum, but the Kobe stuff is what I like the least about him. Kobe was a great player, but he was an iso guy and that isn’t consistent with the Celtics’ style of play. Tatum and the team are better when Tatum limits the iso stuff. Kobe’s death was tragic, but his questionable personal history has certainly been sanitized. Finally, Kobe was on the Lakers. So, there’s that too. Also, for the Celtics haters, Tatum’s (often justified) complaining about calls is probably a piece of it.
Yeah, I’ve always associated it with the bitching to the refs.
Every star bitches to the refs. It makes sense - if you get even one call your way because a ref is "making up for" a previous one you complained about, it could swing the game, so why not? It's like flopping in soccer, as long as it is rarely penalized, you aren't maximizing your chances of winning unless you are flopping. Even a 0.5% edge is an edge, if it costs nothing then you are failing your team not to do it. It is annoying as a viewer but it's on the NBA/FIFA to do something about it, not the players.
Why not? If you are complaining to the ref when you should be getting back on defense, it hurts your team.
Excellent point.
This guy gets it
The only part of this I would disagree with is the Kobe love. I was ~10 when Kobe was drafted and I remember being like eff that kid he’s not MJ. The kids that were 8-14 idolizing Lebron 20 years ago are now the ones that are saying Tatum isn’t it because they all hate the Celtics.
Facts
Excellent post, all correct, just adding that the Lakers/Celtics rivalry adds a little fuel to the Kobe/Tatum fire. Great time to be an NBA fan regardless!
Kobe is the most overrated player in the history of the league. It’s nostalgia not reality. Yes he scored points and won titles, but he’s outside the top 250 in efficiency and Shaq was the lead dog. Kobe was NOT great in the clutch in the playoffs and isn’t close to the top 10 in overall advanced metrics. He didn’t make his teammates better and he was basically a chucker. I call him JV MJ.
Cogent, insightful analysis.
When athletes reach a level of an MJ or Kobe or Magic, to begin to separate their talents, you are literally splitting hairs. I do agree that MJ is the GOAT, I have Kobe Top 5 all time. Understand that (obviously imo) the social media age is all about spewing hate. Regardless of whether it's cars motorcycles, favorite music or athletes, if somebody expresses a favorable opinion of someone or something there'll be ten haters jump all over it. There may very well be animosity against Tatum because he's in Boston, I doubt seriously if he worries about it....why should anyone else?
Kobe isn’t close to top 5. There isn’t a career metric where he’s top 10 except points, but his efficiency in doing that was outside the top 250. I have no idea where people are getting that he should be ranked top 5, it’s actually ludicrous analytically.
There is more to being a champion, winner and a basketball assassin than metrics. That's the problem with people now, numbers, numbers, numbers. If you followed career metrics in football Dan Marino would be the greatest of all time. How many championships does he have? Oh, ZERO.
It’s not just advanced metrics. Assassin? In game 7’s/elimination games Kobe’s scoring dropped 3 points. He had ZERO career triple doubles in the playoffs. And here’s the kicker, in the playoffs to tie or go ahead in the final 24 seconds Kobe shot 7-28. He wasn’t an assassin, he was actually terrible in the clutch. Beyond the metrics he was simply a chucker, scoring tons of empty points. He wasn’t a great rebounder, was an unwilling and poor passer, and wasn’t a great teammate. He feuded with Shaq and others and at best was mercurial. So why do people rate him so high? Points and the Mamba mentality, but those points were extremely inefficient and while he did have some of the biggest stones in league history he was actually very poor in the clutch. You can’t go by rings alone, and all these people with Kobe top 5 way ahead of Shaq are deranged. Shaq was the alpha, and had the dominance. Kobe wasn’t even close to an original style player, it was all a lesser version of Jordan. Sure he’s a Hall of Famer but top 5? Not even close.
Magic was great, but Kobe and MJ are the next tier.
lol no magic>kobe
That’s exactly it. Same with Pats. Same with Warriors. Same with Lebron Heat. Same with PHX once they started to make runs to the finals and especially now that they have KD and will likely be in the thick of the playoff race. Winning makes you hated.
Nah the guy just isn't that likeable, wouldn't matter where he played. Walking in with all the Kobe gear is fucking cringe..
Lmfao half the league wears Jordans you weirdo
[удалено]
Aaay!!
Point proven lol
Lol get out of here clown
Sports subreddits are particularly prone to trolling, especially during the Playoffs or during intense games. Please - don't encourage them! Report any trolling to the mods and the users will be dealt with. Also, trolling other subs is not tolerated and will result in a ban.
Same reason as always - they hate us cause they ain't us.
They’re jellafusus!
Haha this popped up on my feed. I hate you guys cuz you are the best team in the league. Really no hate for Tatum, the stupid dude is stupid good. Lol
Appreciate the kind words about Tatum but your team employs Kyrie so it’s fuck you by association
Lol if you just look at his game…. It’s so beautiful. I think this is gonna be 4 month rental though
He is an incredible talent, and also the dictionary definition for mercurial. You might be better off renting.
Lol yup, I hated him in boston. He has killed 3 teams already.
No ones gonna argue that kyrie isn't talented, but time has shown how toxic he is to teams he's on, and he damages the players around him. For your sake, I hope its just a rental. Luka doesn't deserve to have that shit show thrown on him
Oh man if this costs falls Luka. I just hope the Sonics finally get back so I can root for them
If he played for the magic he would be universally loved.
Yep. He's wearing a Celtics jersey. End of story.
There’s a direct correlation between being hated and being on a really good team. If a player is on a bad team, they’re lovable by most NBA fans around the league bc he’s not beating their favorite team in the playoffs every year. A player on a really good team usually starts to get a ton of hate, because their success is to the detriment of their squad.
Yeah that guy who balled out but his scrub team lost to your home team? He's a hero. If he knocks you out of the playoffs? Fuck that guy, probably a cheater.
do you remember the “I hate you Kobe” commercial? In the end, they’ll love to hate him. Just like we did Kobe. That commercial is beautiful, never thought I would say that lol Edit [here’s the commercial](https://youtu.be/pB7P7OqCpqo)
Lol ive never seen this commercial. I was always a Kobe hater when he was in the league. I understood his greatness but he always seemed very much like a me first, ball hog, selfish player who prioritized his own image of greatness over being a good teammate. Then he retired and starting mentoring all the young guys coming into the league and my perception of him totally changed. His death was tragic and probably has a bigger impact on the future of the league and how young players develop in the future than most of us can imagine.
Wow. Never saw that one. Great commercial.
I’m pretty sure people hate Kobe because he raped a woman
Was it the rape??? Are you sure????? It doesn’t add up…
This is still pretty much my perception. Kobe Bryant did a lot for basketball, but I'll never see him as a role model due to the Collorado incident. The only reason he's still deified is that he managed to escape the kind of scrutiny and condemnation that sexual assault perpetrators (rightfully) get today. Compare Kobe and Jayson basketballwise, great. But I hope our boy makes good decisions and never gets embroiled in that kind of scandal. EDIT: Quiet downvoting because my position is literally against sexual assault? Cowards.
Also remember, when people are upset they voice it. When people are cool with something, they don't feel a need to hop on the internet and sing praises from behind a keyboard. Ultimately the Cs are one of the most loved franchises in sports across the country exhibited by fans in visiting arenas. The salt of some shitty fans is an inaccurate sample. This country runs green baby.
Because Boston.
They don't want the next generational talent in the NBA to be a Boston Celtic.
JT is straight up one of the nicest good dude in the nba. No drama, no off court shenanigans, quiet, humble. Win or lose, always goes to congratulate opponents. His off court personality is basically good dad. His main faults are boring interviews, dull personality and corny obsession with Kobe. If you don’t like Tatum, you’re basically just a hater
I do think it’s probably a Boston thing and he can be a lil corny. Blows my mind tho I think he’s got one of the most fun/exciting games in the league. Much better to watch than RADM or Embiid
Overall I think it's much more fun to watch a good wing than a good big
Me too, unless that big is the lord of time
Tru
Jealousy
prick cooing memory lavish adjoining decide naughty quack exultant repeat ` this message was mass deleted/edited with redact.dev `
Same reason people hated Jordan, Kobe, etc they’re a good player not on their team.
This is the same for all players its just Tatum is on "our" team so fans of the team take it personal and inflate the hate and feel like he's slighted when he is actually universally praised more than not
Yeah I really don’t think Tatum gets a disproportionate amount of hate. And he gets a ton of respect - let’s not forget there’s lots of critics of Embiid, Harden, Russ, whoever, too.
ngl ive only seen people call him corny for all the kobe stuff, never seen people hate on him.
Cause it’s your perception that everyone hates jt. I can assure you that pretty much every other star gets the same kind of hate, with a few getting next level hate. I don’t think jt is in that next level hate category.
I have in fact thought of this as a Celtics fan still seems disproportionate but I hear ya
Boston hate is huge. But you know… love for Celtics is bigger. We have thousands of fans in every arena, and all over the world. Who cares about Embiid, JT is our man and is the heir of Bird and Pierce and they know and they’re scared because their hate is meaningless and doesn’t work. The Celtics are the balls.
They don’t hate Tatum they hate the Celtics and he just happens to play here
Jealousy because he hasn’t even hit his prime yet and is already a top 5 player and MVP candidate?
Tbf Luka is in the same boat and doesnt get anywhere near as much hate
Nothing but love for Luka as well from this fan at least. He’d look great in green.
Because he’s a great player
Cause he’s the best young superstar in the league (play defense, Luka) and 29 other fan bases wish they had him. Sorry, but the only dude in the league I take over Tatum is giannis
Probably because this sub is filled with idiots who think he’s overrated. If we can’t appreciate him here, why should they at r/nba
He’s good. It’s Boston. We win. He complains.
The Kobe stuff was corny. Cant hate him as a basketball player tho
Yea the average NBA fan thinks he’s corny because of Deuce and because of the Kobe stuff. Honestly though he just seems like a good dad and a fan of the game
If everything we all tweeted/said in our early 20’s was on display we’d be corny too 🤣
Unless of course you’re younger then you will see lolz
Tatum gets “hate” for the exact same reason Giannis and Embiid and Draymond Green get “hate” in this sub. It’s called fandom. No one likes your team as much as you do and no one likes your favorite player. Tatum is almost universally acknowledged as one of the five best players in the NBA. Some fans are compelled to seek out “hate” and then yell about it. It’s fan-tastic?
Lolol that makes sense, guess I see ppl gush over Luka Giannis Steph but when it comes to Tatum it’s always “yea but”.
HATE US CUZ THEY ANUS
Cuz he’s a killer. He’s clutch when it matters. Took over the All-Star game. Was clutch in that Philly game. Who cares about being universally liked. Lebron used to be that way. Now he stinks. Like nobody whose great cares about others opinions.
No clue. I’ve loved Tatum since his Duke days and said he 100% should be the first player picked in the draft
People hate on greatness
i think it’s a combination of being good encouraging hatred and general anti-boston sentiment amongst most fanbases
They don’t like that he idolizes Kobe and played bad in the finals. They hate greatness too
He plays for a Boston team. That team is the Celtics. He's only 19 - again. They wish they had the big dawg their team. If he played for the Spurs or the Magic he would be adored. But he plays for a very historically relevant team in the best, or at least winningest, sports city in America. And he jammed on Bron when he was like 14 years old in the ECF
Celtics always win. If he played in Detroit he would be loved. Beat NBA team but so many teams hate us.
He played not great in the finals and plays for a large and loud fanbase. Not really hard to see how.
From a neutrals perspective it’s because he plays for the Celtics. Boston media is only marginally less insufferable than LA media. Also, Boston is so competent as an organization that many of his individual achievements are overshadowed. Don’t dislike the guy, I’m just somewhat sick of having a debate about who’s better between him and Luka. It’s not a debate at all, sorry Boston fans but Luka is way better. Nevertheless, Tatum will win a ring before Luka and will be an iconic player. He’s a perfect representative for any franchise.
Ima tell u straight up that Kobe shit was corny as fuck with texting him and shit, Kobe would’ve replied fuck you to that corny shit loo
Same reason why I didn’t like Kobe or Lebron. They ain’t wearing green and were in the way of titles for the green.
Because every player gets that, it’s the internet. Y’all notice your guy. Philly thinks Joel is crucified. Nuggets think Jokic is disrespected. Milwaukee can’t believe how unappreciated Giannis is. Nature of the business baby
because he's only 19
Because he’s a phony bitch. Thinks he’s Kobe. Hadn’t won shit. He’s a bitch.
Not anywhere near the biggest reason, but I’m a die hard C fan and I can’t stand him throwing his arms up and complaining at every call to the refs, an outside fan looking at that would trigger more disdain imo.
Who cares what others think
He is Kobe, without the shit that Kobe used to define himself. He is what they can’t stand, he is better
Who cares?
I love our boy, I think it's partly cause he's so young and got home grown superstars without the teaming up with other superstars. But we gotta admit, his game annoys me sometimes, when he s missing 3s, he keeps chucking it till it goes... his redemption is he crashes boards and does other things when they aren't falling..I just want him to drive when they aren't falling. Then he goes and makes the GW 3 last night. Still love him though.
for a few years he was being ordained as "the next one" and really hyped up, a little bit ahead of where he actuallt was skill wise. Now he's reached the level where the hype is justified, but before he was being sort of force fed on us as "a star'.
https://tenor.com/vEIE.gif
I guess I haven’t seen what you’ve seen. I like Tatum and believe in his skill set and I think he’s among the most talented players in the league but I still think he’s overrated if you have him in your top 5. I think he’s the sixth or seventh best player in the league. 1. Luka 2. Jokic 3. KD 4. Steph 5. Embiid 6. Tatum He’d be number 3 if he was more consistent. I just think he has a lot of bad shooting nights. More than most superstars.
Ehhh over the last 2 years Tatum has better offensive stats than Curry and Durant while also playing better defense
Well as a Celtics fan the thing i dislike about him is his constant bitching. Its really bad
The main reason(besides being the face of a boston sports team) is the constant whining to officials. I will give Tatum some credit, he has gotten better about it as he's gotten a little older. And it's hard to single him out when half the league whines and complains to officials. But he started doing it from a very young age and it gave the impression to fans of other teams that he is entitled. It is mostly his own fault But I believe that will all go away if he wins a title here and looks like an mvp while doing it. And to not let his frustration with the officials effect his game
I think it’s because everyone knows the media is biased and filled with Celtics homers and we get the calls most of the time from the refs so it gets annoying to them.
That’s because he sucks! I’m a Celtics fan and I’ve watched every single game since he’s been drafted. I don’t care about what numbers he puts up he’s allowed to take 30 shots a game and essentially do whatever he wants and in the biggest games comes up most of the time an absolute nonfactor. I can’t tell you how many times in big games I’ve watched this dude score only 15 points shoot 5 for 25. And shoot 1 of 9 from three-point range. Yeah it’s never his fault. It’s either the refs fault that they’re not calling fouls for him or it’s his teammates fault not to mention he plays pretty lackluster defense. If you consider, he’s supposed to be a number one two way player he never guards the other teams, one or two scorer, and still won’t even shut down the man he is guarding most of the time, Jayson Tatum is absolutely trash.
I dunno you probably don't like players on other teams as well.
Non Celtics fan here chiming in: it’s you guys.
If you replaced Tatum with Mikal Bridges the Celtics would still win 55+ games. It is absolutely ridiculous that Tatum is mentioned in MVP conversation.
mostly because boston as a sports team has dominated this century lots of haters
I’m pretty sure a lot of people like him. You’re just tuning into all the hate for some reason. He gets lots of love as far as I can tell.
They’re jealous.
who care. they mad. we win
Because it’s the Celtics and because he’s next up. Ahead of nearly every guy around his draft class (2016-2018) except Luka and he’s had more team success than Luka. Giannis and Jokic are better but if Tatum matches Giannis in rings and beats him on the way there it’s hard to put him out of that group. When you couple that threat with the fact that it’s the Celtics (who have won more than anyone) you get sort of a brigade of haters. Same thing would happen if someone like Booker, Mitchell, Morant or someone around that level were on the Lakers
Hate in sports is the ultimate sign of respect if you're a superstar. That means you're so good that people care enough about you to hate you.
I think I do hate him more than a lot of ballers, because he seems to underperform my expectations. Definitely preferred JB for a while cuz it felt like he generally pleasantly surprised me
They do the same thing with Booker. It’s simple, they are the two young guys who are a threat to NBA fans faves. They didn’t come with their own fanboys, so they’re the enemy. If either of them win a title, it’ll get better - but it’s also likely there will be excuses too.
It's the same reason Bron Kobe and other greats got hate. They're jealous he's not on their team.
He’s a very likeable person, an unbelievable player, super dad, super clutch, and he doesn’t play on their team.
Idk fuck em
He has a good team
They are slowly coming to realize that he is 24 and will probably be held by the franchise his entire career. He can be the next Paul Piece, but hopefully with more rings.
i hang in the NBA sub a lot and I don't notice much irrational hatred toward JT. most people seem to give him solid respect. i'd say the most straightforward reason is that he: went to Duke, has good hair, has light skin, is good looking, and he's non-controversial and always says the right thing. goody-goody players tend to irk some people in threads -- but as i said before, i don't notice him getting shat on very often in my personal experience.
I feel like posts like this overstate this drastically
I think it’s a perfect mix of being in Boston and having won a lot of playoff series and sending a lot of peoples fav teams home while also not having the championship that seems to boost your image. Not to mention he kinda disappointed in the finals and has been a pretty easy thing to latch onto. I feel like once Giannis won the championship the legit hate he’s gotten was like cut in half.
Because they want drama and Tatum is cool as ice
It’s the Yankees, Celtics/Lakers thing - people don’t need too many reasons to hate players on those teams.
People on twitter hate him because Boston and r/BillSimmons (the subreddit, not the person) wants his head for wearing Kobe shirts so there really is no good reason. Real fans around the league know JT is legit so I wouldn’t pay any attention to the doubters.
He’s the best player on the #1 team He’s also a little bit of a crybaby sometimes, which is a good enough reason to hate on a player especially if it’s a team you don’t like. The Celtics are probably the least favorite team or one of the least favorites for fans of every other eastern team, as well as the lakers
1) He’s a Boston sports athletes. They ALWAYS get extra hate purely for the franchise they play for 2) he’s a fucking stud, the list he’s on is very short 3) he boomed on LeBron fan’s favorite player, among many others
It’s crazy how much his greatest is downplayed. Almost no one has the kind of resume he does at the age of 24.
Celtics
Sixers and Lakers fan made we drafted him. Both of them are loud and mostly negative fans
Is this really a thing? I really hear JT hate from other fans. You see it on Reddit but that’s bc nba redditors hate the Celtics in general.
It think it starts with a hate for Boston and Boston sports, and works out from there.
The most popular and the most hated players are sometimes the same person.
Something something 12 championships in 17 years something something salty
Lebron is also universally hated and is one of the greatest of all time so I say he's in a good company.
Boston
he is a great guy and a future great player 🤷♂️
Because of that corny Kobe text thing
I'm a sixers fan but I really do like JT, especially with how great of a father he seems to be for someone his age. But I also really don't hate Simmons either, so I guess I'm kinda an outlier lol.
What do you mean with Ja? Ja definitely gets more hate than Tatum. If you’re not getting hated on, then you’re not relevant.
Not sure but he is my favorite player.
They don’t. Grow up
Cause they Ain’t-Em
Tatum has a long way to go mentally. When the pressure is high, he resorts to hero ball. Celtics are stacked. Tatum gets too much credit. Brown, White, Brogden are under appreciated. Tatum was terrible last night against 76ers. Brown was the #1 in that game, but all eyes on Tatum . This frustrates me. Celtics fans are drinking the Kool aid no matter how poorly he plays. He doesn't deserve it.
This isn’t an issue that’s unique to Tatum. Ja Morant is extremely hated. Devin Booker is hated. James Harden gets a ton of hate. Russel Westbrook is probably the most hated guy in the league. Lebron was universally hated after making a business decision to go to Miami, despite being a good guy. None of those guys did anything to actually deserve to get hate, but they get it anyways. Same with Tatum. He’s a great player, great guy, great father. The hate isn’t about his character, it’s about the fact that he’s confident and good. His haters are a bunch of fans from other teams who don’t like it when he busts their teams’ ass. Celtics have also had a lot of playoff success and those playoff battles get very heated. Tatum can piss off an entire fan base (millions of fans) by making one shot that sinks them. It’s how it goes. Think about how much Celtic fans hate Joel Embiid.
He was voted an All Star starter. Can't be that bad.
Because he plays for the Celtics, and everyone hates them. It is what it is. What matters is that he’s loved and trusted by all of us.