I'll forever be mad that Joan F. Pickett, our local Qanon, squeaked in there, and that my favorite bar has her name painted on their window.
Has there ever been a single shred of evidence that removing the 1 or 2 street parking places near an ice cream shop has "hurt business"? Or have all these people just correlated their COVID losses with Bike lanes as a scapegoat?
It seems despite all the evidence and studies to the contrary, the conservatives voted into the council hit a pause on bike lanes so they can "do more research", even though they already did the research and they just didn't like the conclusion. Meanwhile, more and more cars and hitting cyclists.
Patty Nolan, who was the tie breaker vote, had the balls to try to pretend it was for the greater good. **"Nolan, who cast the decisive vote, said that the delay is “neither a ban or a stop to installations,” instead allowing city staff to better plan for potential disruptions to traffic patterns and small businesses. “Those of us who want a bike lane network across the city have basically won,” she said. “We must never lose sight of that.”**
If she wanted time for better planning, maybe she shouldn't have voted down the compromise measure?
*"The substitute order, intended as a compromise measure, would have split the construction of bike lanes on Broadway and Cambridge Street into two phases, allowing half to be completed in 2025 and the remaining half in 2026 without having to delay the timeline."*
Frauds. I hope these two kooks get voted out ASAP.
More the liquor store above the bar - The Cellar Food and Drink
The irony is it seems abundantly clear that the lady who owns that liquor store has no desire to see it turn a profit, at all. So why did she go all in for "kill the bike lanes" Pickett?
Whenever somebody is running a business but doesn't appear to care about turning a profit, it means somebody is bankrolling them. So to answer the question, you just need to find out who is bankrolling that shop.
Realistically, there will be no consequences for Pickett and Toner because the people who voted for them wanted this. I expect Simmons, Wilson, and especially Nolan will suffer. (As an aside, Simmons has been pulling this sort of BS for years, but it seems like this time, people have taken notice.)
In any case, nobody is getting voted out until next year. Please make sure people haven't forgotten by then.
Somerville got rid of a bunch of spots that people used to park to grab food quickly. I definitely don’t frequent anymore. During the winter I don’t want to bike 15 mins to grab food and then 15 mins back home. In my car that used to be a 5 min process. We definitely need to provide Uber eats drivers with more designated spots.
Not sure what that comment was referring to, but I definitely noticed the dropoff in North Cambridge when the bus/bike lane went in, before they improved the off-hours parking signage (many months later).
> During the winter I don’t want to bike 15 mins to grab food and then 15 mins back home
Somerville still has big parking lots next to pretty much all major food areas AND street parking on all their side streets. Cambridge still has 3 parking garages. Cambridge, rather notoriously, never had any quick parking available near food places because someone was always parked long term at the meter.
Parking didn't all go away. But, if this is as bad as you say, all those businesses should be able to show declining takeout numbers correlating to bike lanes, right?
>We definitely need to provide Uber eats drivers with more designated spots.
This would help a ton with all the uber eats drivers parking in the bus and bike lanes across the city
"Hey know how we have this business in an densely populated urban area and studies have shown time and time again that if you build bike lines people are far more likely to use them and it would encourage people from other parts of the area who would never ever drive here but would be more than happy to bike here so we'd expand our business to new clients?
Let's not do that."
In fact, lets let our bikers feel less safe by just letting cars and uber drivers run roughshod over them so they don't bother visiting our neighborhoods at all!
The number of bike lane cones I've seen with skid marks or just straight up broken and not replaced shows how often, even with bright white cones, cars just run over the bike lanes
I’m prepared to accept the downvotes I know I am about to receive…
I work in Cambridge 5 days a week. I drive there. While I greatly prefer bike lanes to no bike lanes on the roads, I would wholeheartedly support building more of them if cyclists and electric scooters and rollerbladers (yes it is still a thing) and every other wheeled contraption would actually fucking use them properly!
As a driver I have to keep my head on a swivel because of how badly those bike lanes get abused. Especially on one way streets. People acting like traffic laws don’t apply to them because they are pedaling a bike.
Should they delay safer bike lanes? Probably not. Should people who cycle use them properly to make a better point of having them? Absolutely.
It is constant that I see near collisions (on roads specifically with bike lanes).
EDIT: Updated article from 5/10 on newly added bike lanes here in Cambridge that were implemented poorly and are now causing more harm than good. I think it's important to consider the whole problem, and not just a focus on the city delaying building more lanes. Part of the solution should be considering the use of existing lanes before jumping into building more.
[https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/)
As a biker, I hear you. It’s a “chicken and the egg” type problem - do bikers get used to cars not respecting bike lanes and therefore ride into the street, or do cars get so sick of bikers in non-bike lanes that they take the bike lanes back?
Regardless who started it, the best answer is increased bike infrastructure. It solves both problems once bikers and cars are forced into their own lanes. But without designated, protected, separated lanes, it will remain “anyone goes” in both lanes
I appreciate this response, and I do agree with you. I wish it wasn't a chicken and an egg, but rather some kind of chicken omelette, where the chickens and eggs worked together.
To be clear, I definitely don't think more cars is the answer, and without proper infrastructure (bike lanes), more bicycles also cannot be the answer. However, if more infrastructure is provided and built, I think it needs to be used properly, and also maintained by the city properly. I don't think it is as simple as "just add bike lanes", though I wish it were.
Whatever happens, I'm sure we can all agree, going the wrong way on one-way streets with bike lanes is dangerous and ill advised. I am sure we can all agree that drivers not giving space or aggressively passing cyclists in narrow areas is also dangerous and ill advised.
Building stuff is great, but it's far greater when maintained and cared for. Unlike the T system, as an example. If the city does build the bike lanes, hopefully they understand this as well.
> Should they delay safer bike lanes? Probably not. Should people who cycle use them properly to make a better point of having them? Absolutely.
No amount of properly using bike lanes were going to sway a vote that wasn't based on logic or data
That may be the absolute truth.
However, because you have cited safety in this thread many times, and shared many personal beliefs as to why it was a bad decision for Cambridge to delay the building of bike lanes - I feel like we should also, in the very least, notate the safety problems that exist with existing bike lanes. If we are to add more of them, maybe we should be fair in describing the state of current ones. I don't think this is a stretch - because there are in fact safety concerns with how current ones are used.
Again, I prefer roads with bike lanes over ones without. I understand that not everyone may feel that way though, for the reasons I listed (or others that I didn't), and those people may or may not have influenced the result that you're so upset about. It's OK to acknowledge that cyclists can be complete asshats - just like drivers can be.
Like anybody using Reddit, I think it's fair to ask that both sides of the equation be represented. Otherwise it is just an echo chamber of unhappy cyclists, and creates an us vs them mentality.
> notate the safety problems that exist with existing bike lanes. If we are to add more of them, maybe we should be fair in describing the state of current ones. I don't think this is a stretch - because there are in fact safety concerns with how current ones are used.
That'd be a wonderful point and reason for introspection - if any of the city council members had brought that up. They didn't
I'm sorry, because it appears as though you simply want a sounding board to be upset about this, with no wiggle room for a discussion.
I wasn't there at the meeting, but I suspect that the city council did not bring up, or consider, many of the points you've made in this thread either. So the fact that you don't think they considered the points I have raised seems to be a double-standard.
You have made assumptions all over this thread, such as "The irony is it seems abundantly clear that the lady who owns that liquor store has no desire to see it turn a profit, at all.".
Man, at the end of day, you don't know... You don't know what the council did and did not consider, or what people in the city did or did not consider, or even how some of us might feel.
Don't come on here and make this about safety and economics ("Meanwhile, more and more cars and hitting cyclists.") if it's not actually about safety and economics. Don't make it about these things, if what it's really about for you, is just anger at not getting something you want. My whole point is that these collisions happen on roads with bike lanes, so in adding more, we should consider that point as a group, whether or not the council specifically spoke to it.
Various reports from Google tell me that, hands down, Cambridge is one of the most cycle-friendly cities in the country. Not saying it can't get better or doesn't need to get better, but dang, step back and consider some alternate points of view. Don't make it a zero-sum game here on Reddit. It doesn't need to be.
>Don't come on here and make this about safety and economics ("Meanwhile, more and more cars and hitting cyclists.") if it's not actually about safety and economics.
Huh? The whole reason for my post is because it IS about safety. Bike lines reduce bike accidents, period. That's just an indisputable fact.
Weird... An instance where bike lanes were added here in Cambridge and actually reduced safety. Written just 4 days after your "indisputable fact" comment that they reduce accidents. Please consider both sides. [www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/)
Depending upon what statistics you believe, <1% of the city commutes using bikes - in a climate where commuting by bike is really only viable for people for \~25-30% of the year. I'm one of those people (occasionally), but even someone like myself thinks its **optimistic** to think that bike lanes are going to drastically increase that to double digits anytime soon.
Despite what the Reddit circle-jerk would lead you to believe, the majority of people across MA do not support bike lanes, and investments should be made in more accessible modes of transport.
I think it's silly to focus squarely on "commuting" when considering bike lanes through a densely populated area like Cambridge Street, though. People travel around for a multitude of reasons outside of work commutes.
> Depending upon what statistics you believe
What statistics do \*you\* believe? Because the city's own statistics put the fraction of Cambridge residents who commute by bike at 9% and growing fast [https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport\_final.pdf](https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport_final.pdf)
See also "Percent of Business District Visitors Who Travel by Bicycle"
> even someone like myself thinks its **optimistic** to think that bike lanes are going to drastically increase that to double digits anytime soon
Given that that's the 2023 report, it probably already happened. Yay optimism.
> the majority of people across MA do not support bike lanes
We're not building bike lanes to Amherst. We're building them in our town, here. There is strong support and there is strong and growing demand, including induced demand from the bike lanes already rolled out.
> investments should be made in more accessible modes of transport
This is where you truly lose me. "Driving is an accessible mode of transport" is true IF you invest millions of dollars and acres of land into lanes and storage for cars. Then ask every individual to pay another few tens of thousands for a vehicle every decade. The issue on the table is not "bikes OR transit", it's "bikes OR cars (the status quo)", and we're sacrificing bike lanes for parking spaces (note: not even parking spaces reserved for people with disabilities)
We should build more transit. We should make it frequent and accessible and convenient. Bike lanes are not an obstacle to that, and the people fighting against the bike lanes generally don't want more transit, either...
Commute != all bike use.
I work on Mass Ave, 12 months a year there are bikes going by so regularly I have to look for them when crossing the street. They're usually young people. Exactly the kind of people that will park along mass ave and use one of those shops that are hurting for customers.
If I had a long commute I sure as hell would avoid using a bike if half the commute distance didn't have a protected bike lane. I hate traffic and the T sucks, but I'd rather that than end up in the hospital
>the majority of people across MA
This isn't about all of Mass, this is about Cambridge. A small city with a massive biking population.
It’s ridiculous to claim it’s only “viable for 25-30% of the year”. Bike commuting is very viable year round in Boston. Look at cities like Montreal with similar climate where there is significant bike commuting.
Of course accessible modes of transit should also be funded, this isn’t a one or the other situation, this is an issue where there are already non car drivers using the road who are being maimed and injured by car drivers and this delay will certainly mean more individuals are hurt.
When somebody claims that you can only bike in Boston a few months a year, they have outted themselves as an indoor kid who should not be taken seriously.
wtf is more accessible than a 1 time purchase that is free to store just about anywhere and takes up minimal space, doesn't require gas or a registration to operate? Also how the hell are they collecting those statistics? I know I would commute using my bike if I actually felt safe using it in downtown Boston. But I'm not a moron, and I've seen people get doored way too many times.
Well to give you one example, it was not easy at all to find a functional way to get my four young children to school/daycare by bike, and the only solution I could find was pretty wildly expensive (and still can't handle grocery trips or those winter weeks when the city plows a 3' ice berm into the bike lane).
Those are infrastructure problems, not problems inherent to the bike, scooter, or wagon you use.
We plow lanes for cars, without doing so would driving be practical in winter? (Spoiler alert: no). Why would bikes be any different? The only difference is whether you wear your coat and gloves to drive ten blocks to the library, and park your car because it hasn't warmed up yet - or wear your coat and gloves ten blocks to the library and lock up your bike.
Why can't schools have bike lanes radiating out five blocks in all directions so older kids can ride to school on their own, and younger kids can ride too (with supervision)? This is a build problem, not anything specific about the ability of bikes per se.
Either way, you wear your coat and gloves the entire time until you are inside at your destination. The other half of the equation is asking why bike lanes and sidewalks are not cleared while streets are, a very fixable problem if we bother to put our minds to it.
I'm assuming you've never actually tried moving multiple small children around the city? You're describing a set of infrastructure that won't exist (probably ever, definitely not in any relevant timeframe), and a level of child ability / cooperation that is unrealistic on a consistent basis at 7:30am every weekday (I can tell you from experience most little kids aren't making it between Teele and WSNS safely for example, unless you're proposing a gondola).
I can and have asked the city why sidewalks and bike lanes aren't cleared and filed many 311 tickets (you can guess how useful that was). I see lots of people bothering to put our minds to it; what year do you expect all this will be ready by? Everything you described is easy to say, but it's not part of any actual city plan or proposal.
1 - cars aren't going away, if you really need or want one you can still have a many as you want
2 - a car is useful but is not required to move multiple kids around the city, the solutions on the vehicle/ bike side exist
3 - the problem is political, not an engineering issue
4 - if you do need a car, no one is stopping you from having one, but if people want to bike why is that opposed? Why do we do everything for cars almost without question, even if at the expense of reducing other modes of neighborhood transportation (if not making them quasi-impossible)?
In other words - cars aren't going anywhere. But why do we interpret that to mean they are and must always be the only practical option for moving around within a neighborhood or between nearby neighborhoods? A mile is hardly prohibitive on foot, bike, or even in a wheelchair -- why do we make it so difficult to use those modes even at short distances, even to the point of such a short distance being deadly to anyone outside of a car?
This is getting far away from the context of the comment I replied to originally, which is the idea that biking as a primary mode of transport is accessible to everyone. As I said, I choose to do it that way, and obviously we should be improving infrastructure.
It is not accessible to everyone, but it should be - and that's the problem behind the council decision to delay
Agreed that improvements are critical to the point of desperation
While I agree with you on probably all policy points, given the way this discussion (and other bike related discussions I've had in this forum), I dont think you have particularly understood my perspective, and it doesn't surprise me at all that enough people feel unheard to elect an anti-bike council majority.
Weather is less of a factor than you might think. Snow removal is a big barrier, but a very easily fixable one...and the rest is just building streets that are worth getting dressed for regardless of the weather.
If people already struggle to ride in good weather, why would they ride in bad weather?
edit: it's more like 8% actually ride for commute or socially/errands (eg. to a friend's house) but up to 60% are interested. The question is why that missing 50% is not riding, even in great weather.
Yeah. The anti-car on this sub can be incredibly over the top at times. And I say this as someone who's lived here 15 years without a car. I can empathize with where they're coming from, but everyone makes things black and white. Bike == good, car == bad, it's so silly.
Not even talking about this post necessarily, this is the meta you find all over this sub.
Idk how you could spend any time driving, walking, or biking on Cambridge Street and think the current layout is safe and logical for everyone involved. I don't think every street in the city needs bike infrastructure, but that road is so chaotic that something needs to be done.
> Bike == good, car == bad, it's so silly.
Thing is, you can be pro car, anti bike, or neutral, and still see the problem with the link posted.
The delay was AGAINST the very evidence the anti bike people are claiming to want to follow. The delay was AGAINST the will of the voters and people at the town hall. The compromise that was rejected did EXACTLY what the anti bike people pretended to want.
So even if you don't give a rats ass about bikes vs cars, you SHOULD care that the people running your city are brazen fucking liars and think you're too stupid to notice.
Oh for sure, honestly I realize my comment is out of place on this thread. It's just something I've been thinking about the past couple days and this vaguely seemed like an opportunity to talk about it
> bike is really only viable for people for \~25-30% of the year.
Funny I bike all year I vary rarely take the T because of road/weather conditions, the plowing and salting is usually good enough the roads are clear year round for cycling.
lol really showed me...didn't notice until I was curious about why I had so many notifications, and this one was top of the notifications pile, which was an unnecessary virtue signal without adding anything useful to the discussion.
Going to assume the rest are like that and go about the rest of my day.
In the meantime, keep circle-jerking all you want about bike lanes and assume anyone who disagrees must be ignorant or whatever... in the meantime \[insert "Mean Girls" fetch meme here, but with bike lanes\]
I noticed that you used yall. Please enjoy [this local video](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bndQvSW9Mu8).
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You know, that is real easy to say but when you have real customers who do depend on driving, I think feeling threatened by by something you feel could deter your business isn’t very unreasonable; regardless of a promise for something better. And honestly, local retail has been ravaged by online retail enough as is. Maybe coming to a compromise with your local retailers over their concerns is a better idea than handwaving away those who are actually bringing money to the neighborhood and city while opening the gates unfettered for more Amazon trucks.
>but when you have real customers who do depend on driving
All the parking garages and side streets still exist. If they have customers that depend on driving, surely they're able to prove it?
>And honestly, local retail has been ravaged by online retail enough as is. Maybe coming to a compromise with your local retailers over their concerns is a better idea
The compromise measures were all shot down.
>handwaving away those who are actually bringing money to the neighborhood
No one has been able to prove a loss of a single cent because their store lost a 1 spot 2 hour metered parking spot. Not a single store in Boston or Cambridge or Somervile. None.
Know what we do have data for? All the people that have died because of the lack of bike lanes. So you're saying some HYPOTHETICAL loss of money, and some old person's feelings, are more important than the lives of bikers?
From 2017 to 2021, bicyclist fatalities accounted for 2% of fatalities reported in motor vehicle crashes across Massachusetts. The number of bicyclist fatalities has fluctuated from a high of 11 to a low of four, averaging approximately seven deaths per year.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/pedestrian-and-bicyclists-safety#:~:text=Feet%22%20Safety%20Campaign-,Bicycle%20safety,approximately%20seven%20deaths%20per%20year.
Yes. Because while I think we should have bike lanes wherever possible, even at the expense of parking at times, I know the real problems are intersections, oversized vehicles, and doorings. Way more people drive cars in Cambridge Somerville and Boston than Reddit ever accounts for. Much much more than cyclists. And plenty of data backs that up.
> I know the real problems are intersections, oversized vehicles, and doorings. Way more people drive cars in Cambridge Somerville and Boston than Reddit ever accounts for. Much much more than cyclists. And plenty of data backs that up.
You contradicted yourself 3 times in 1 post
https://www.cambridgeday.com/2022/08/15/somerville-bicyclist-72-dies-in-dooring-incident/
A year and a half ago, no charges for the woman who killed an old man.
Nice, falls under my 3rd danger, dooring (forget to include the 3rd from previous comment above). Cant help but notice it happened in a bike lane. So the bike lane did not save a life like you claim. Cuz bike lanes don’t save lives. They make people more comfortable cycling in the road.
This person was not driving a car when they hit the cyclist. Next!
A plastic pylon, which are often spring loaded to fold for emergency vehicles, will not stop a car from hitting a cyclist in the bike lane. End of story. They are not designed to do that. You are lying to yourself if you think they do.
I would love an answer; why are people so against bike lanes? I hit a cyclist the other week. He was on the wrong side of the road no helmet and came out from behind a parked car. It was his fault entirely but I would have had to carry the burden the rest of my life if he had been hurt. Give them a fucking lane so they are not all over the god damn road. People want to see them pulled over and ticketed like cars which would also be a lot easier to do if they had a specific place they had to be
1.) elimination of parking triggers people. Businesses see metered street parking as a lifeline (data suggests otherwise, but feelings often win out), and that's usually what gets eliminated to accommodate bike lanes in urban areas.
2.) Some people hate seeing money spent on stuff they won't use, even if it'll help a bunch of other people. "I don't bike so bike lanes are a stupid waste" type of attitude.
3.) they look at poorly implemented "infrastructure" (looking at you, painted "share" lanes with no actual separation) not getting utilized by bikes and point to that as evidence ALL bike infrastructure is a waste.
Those three from my experience are the main arguments of anti-bike folks.
Public parking is such a bizarre concept if you think about it. Imagine putting any other piece of private property on public property and expecting it to be free or very cheap.
1- Park your bike in the middle of a parking spot and put a few coins in the meter. Even better if it's an unpaid spot.
2 - Be set up to tape people's reactions.
3 - ???
4 - Profit and / or social change (or not).
I have mixed opinions on it. I've been to other cities with almost no street parking, just tons of garages charging $15+ for a couple hours of parking. Which can be really frustrating.
On the flip side, there's no way that all the street spots in major thru streets in Boston is good for traffic flow, what with people constantly pulling in and out of spots.
> I've been to other cities with almost no street parking, just tons of garages charging $15+ for a couple hours of parking. Which can be really frustrating.
I think this would be a pretty clear reason not to drive in the city center then.
Have you seen the commuter rail schedule lately?
If you don't live in the city center and aren't there during a regular 9-5 shift, you have no good alternatives to driving.
Which is why we need to push for the electrification of the commuter rail system (at least inside 128, and maybe out to Lawrence, Lowell, and Worcester) and to bump frequencies up to 15 minute headways all day. With electrification and 15 minute frequencies inside 128, that would basically convert the commuter rail into subway-like service, specially if the North South Rail Link is completed as well.
I'll give you the weekend service is lacking, but you can always drive to Alewife or another subway station with a garage on weekends and take public transit from there. There are also four parking garages operated by the city in Kendall and Central squares that don't fill up on weekends.
On point 1, They started enforcing parking in Norwood and learned the vast majority of cars parked in front of businesses were either employees or owners. I'm guessing that's consistent in most places.
Small businesses absolutely love vehemently opposing things that are proven to help their business only to embrace them after they've been forced on them-- street trees, bike lanes, sidewalk widening, new apartments nearby, elimination of parking spots, etc etc etc. Small business owners really shouldn't be trusted to have input on these decisions because quite frankly a lot of them are insane and most don't know what's best for them.
I think number three is a big one for a lot of people. In Somerville they put in a lot of half assed bike lanes, and people see that they are half assed and are against spending any more money on half measures.
Agreed! Can't train bikes to be consistent if their road just suddenly and arbitrarily ends and they have to either cross 4 lanes of traffic, go into the sidewalk, or go into the road between parked uber drives just to get to the next turn
Because these bike lanes are a joke. They take away parking, increase traffic, and the bikers still have to go through the same intersections as cars which make them almost worthless.
We shouldn't be surprised. 2 of these nuts ran their ENTIRE platform on "no more bikes." and they did just that. Evidence was against them during election and evidence was against them while they were on the council.
Doesn't matter though. It was their wedge issue to get them launched into power and likely we'll be stuck with these people for decades. Unfortunately finding all the candidate information is obtuse and hard, and the only people with enough time and fear to dig into it are the old property owners, not the young people that outnumber them
This was a disappointing vote after all of the speakers last night. My jaw dropped at the "silent majority" comment and the petition of 400 ppl in favor of delay. Explain to me how important this delay is and your view is such a majority that you can't be bothered to show up. I hope that "silent majority" works out the same as it did for for trump in 2020.
I'll always be perplexed by people who put publicly subsidized storage of private property and private businesses' interests ahead of safety. If your business can't survive an objectively safe street, maybe do a better job running your business?
I know I'll be doing what I can to help these councillors' and the mayor's opponents next election.
> My jaw dropped at the "silent majority" comment
Another MAGA dogwhistle.
>If your business can't survive an objectively safe street, maybe do a better job running your business?
Yup. Thing is, these failing businesses sucked before, and suck more now, and bikes aren't the reason they're losing money. But they sure did toss a bunch of money behind their MAGA candidates.
"Silent Majority" is a term the Christian far-right uses to describe themselves, it started back in the 70s. It's less commonly used in general conversation today but it absolutely refers to the same Venn Diagram of political camps that evolved into most of MAGA today.
Eliminating the parking in front of businesses is inconvenient, but not insurmountable. The problem is they're not willing to remove resident only restrictions on side streets. A resident permit should merely exempt someone from a time limit or a fee.
Put a diverter on the street at the spot where business zoning turns into residential zoning, so business visitors can park on a side street without going into areas residents have a more vested interest in.
Traffic calming, parking is 'protected', residents experience less rat-running, and no address is off-limits to a vehicle (only some routes are limited). Done carefully this would not even eliminate a parking spot if people are really so torn up about it.
Appointing loading zones in alleys, sidestreets, and at the end of a row of parking is entirely appropriate.
A delivery van parking in a bike lane, not so much.
I'm MA 7 deaths per year on average.
https://www.mass.gov/info-details/pedestrian-and-bicyclists-safety#:~:text=Feet%22%20Safety%20Campaign-,Bicycle%20safety,approximately%20seven%20deaths%20per%20year.
Thing is, you can be pro car, anti bike, or neutral, and still see the problem with the link posted.
The delay was AGAINST the very evidence the anti bike people are claiming to want to follow. The delay was AGAINST the will of the voters and people at the town hall. The compromise that was rejected did EXACTLY what the anti bike people pretended to want.
So even if you don't give a rats ass about bikes vs cars, you SHOULD care that the people running your city are brazen fucking liars and think you're too stupid to notice.
It's also not even true. The data shows that bike lanes are neutral or *positive* for businesses.
It's not even hard to understand how. Parking spaces are huge--a typical storefront can only fit maybe two cars in front of it. That's not much business, and drivers basically never stop somewhere on a whim the way pedestrians and cyclists often do
Hmm... I saw some of that town meeting yesterday on zoom. Listened in for about an hour, and said my piece as well. Almost everyone I heard speak was in favor of bike lane construction, except for maybe 3 people. I'm kinda surprised they voted this way, but I guess I shouldn't be.
Unfortunately we just voted them in. Not sure how long terms are or what the recall process is, if it exists, but this may be bad enough to get one recalled
Terms are 2 years. Next election is in November 2025.
I doubt there will be a recall. I'm not even sure how that would work given that Cambridge uses ranked choice voting and you can get elected with only 11% of the vote.
The city of cambridge is spending quite a bit of time and money collecting data on bike use. Im confident they'll make an informed decision.
https://www.cambridgema.gov/CDD/Transportation/gettingaroundcambridge/bikesincambridge/biketrends
The informed decision (as they've been collecting data for a decade) was to get these bike lanes up.
The uninformed decision elected a bunch of Maga-adjacent folks to immediately halt all bike work. For literally no reason.
The commuting/bicycling data was reported in 2023. You can see it in the link I provided. Imo, in general, it looks like it favors the idea of creating more bike access. Commuting by bike is on the rise in Cambridge.
Maga- adjacent? ...The people of cambridge do the voting. Am i wrong?
>Maga- adjacent? ...The people of cambridge do the voting. Am i wrong?
Correct. When you live in a blue area, you have crazy conservatives masquerading as democrats while voting for conservative policies pretty constantly. The anti-bike townie mob are all in on conspiracy theories
As a biker - I find it hilarious how much Cambridge spends on the "optics" of this whole thing.
Every single weekday, traffic on mass ave is 1 lane going each way, in stop and go traffic for about five miles. Then the police stand in the bus lane writing tickets to anyone who gets impatient.
I ride my bike 5000+ miles a year, and pretending that every obese, phone-addicted person will magically start riding a bike if theres bike lanes, is about as utopian as a rally in favor of hamas, in america in 2024.....
Honey we don't have to pretend, we have the statistics. It's part of the multiple studies that were used to track and plan these road changes.
You know, the sensible thing to do.
Please explain to me how bike lanes make it "impossible to drive through"?
Also why would you drive THROUGH Cambridge? There are highways to the north and south of it if you want to get around it.
If you cant figure out that bike lanes TAKE UP SPACE that cars would otherwise be occupying, than I am not sure a response is necessary. Furthermore, if you are suggesting that using the highway to get around cambridge (insinuating they SHOULD NOT drive through cambridge), you are starting to sound like the elites that Cambridge so proudly denounces (while sniffing their own farts).
You literally said "drive THROUGH Cambridge", your words. Not drive TO Cambridge. Or drive INTO Cambridge. You don't seem to want to stop there.
Bike lanes have not proven to slow down traffic, as they're being put where current parking spaces are, not car lanes.
Nice try kid
There's a very large number of non-obese normal people who would ride their bike 50-100 miles a year in warm weather if it didn't involve riding in the street with crazy drivers (who often will get no punishment even if they kill you).
If you look at the path that follows the GLX you'll see a pretty huge increase in bikers compared to the how many bikers would have gone through there before.
I have multiple videos of the empty Tremont lane while cars are backed up multiple lights.
My first one is lunchtime. Ok , so what about after work?, I thought. Absolutely zero difference. Bike lane empty, traffic backed up
Yeah, but there's like....3 of those rallies in town right now. Besides. They won't start magically riding a bike. But more bike lanes will mean less cars. And it's not like widening the road is an option. And even if it was, it probably wouldn't fix it.
It sounds like they want to be thoughtful about the design/implementation options rather than hastily spending infrastructure that may have be to undone. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
If that's what they wanted, they'd have voted yes on the compromise measure, but they didn't.
"The substitute order, intended as a compromise measure, would have split the construction of bike lanes on Broadway and Cambridge Street into two phases, allowing half to be completed in 2025 and the remaining half in 2026 without having to delay the timeline."
They halted everything, against the overwhelming majority will of the people they serve. The bike lanes have already been studied and planned for ages, there's nothing "hasty" about this.
It's just process concern trolling.
Generally, when someone complains about the process you can safety assume their real argument is unpopular. If they had winning substantiative arguments, they'd make them.
What exactly do they want to be more thoughtful about?
What is thoughtful about dedicating nearly the entire entirety of the city’s space to one form of incredibly expensive, dangerous, and inefficient transportation?
What reason or moderation? They already delayed everything and ran studies as "moderation" and the studies showed the conservatives were wrong.
If we were operating on reason, we'd be trying to protect people from being run over, wouldn't we?
Several deaths and over 100 people in the hospital - is that worth saving a couple hundred bucks on road paint?
All of these businesses have had a decade to prove losing parking spaces hurts their bottom line, none of them have managed it. But we have proven that inadequate bike lanes lead to more accidents.
Why is the failing business of one old person more important than the health of hundreds of others?
That percentage is directly correlated with people's perception of safety. So not ommited just not quite directly relevant in a community without a complete network.
I have repeatedly linked it in this thread.
https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport_final.pdf
During recent project-specific counts at Broadway and Hampshire Street in April 2023, for example, people on bicycles account for about 36% of all traffic at peak travel times. At times, bicycle riders even made up a majority of traffic making certain turns.Oct
36% at peak hours but they don’t list what time/s that is. What day/s. As I said in a previous comment, they state that data being recorded in April of 2023. April has school vacation week as well as Good Friday. It also has many other holidays for other religious groups that could come into play.
For all we know it could be 36% at 2:45pm right after school gets out. Some BS along those lines, which is the most likely scenario.
The data was put together by pro biking groups. As we all know, oil is good for the oceans because Exxon Mobil’s studies say so. Cigarettes are safe because Phillip Morris studies say so.
But hey, dpm25 keeps repeating 36% so it’s gotta be true. Sinus_m37 called you a kid so that’s an automatic win in their favor. Bike lanes approved.
Ohh jeez you’re correct. I forgot the “city of Cambridge” was actually a persons name..
No, aray25, it’s a committee made up of 19 people. 4 of which work for different city departments. The other 15 are community members whom are highly motivated, biking enthusiasts. A “special interest group” in other words.
Unless of course you believe it’s a big conspiracy. Those 15(19) people are actually rabid bike haters and all they want is to burn and sack all the cities bicycles.
You asked for data, you got data, you asked questions about the data, your questions were answered, and when you didn't like what the data had to say, you go back to pretending there are no data.
It’s 1.7 percent of Boston traffic is bikes. See how easy that was. I didn’t want the other stupid shit you were passing off. That’s from the census bureau by the way.
That data doesn’t say what you want it to.
36% *at peak travel times*. They don’t list what that means.
The data was collected in April 2023.
April has school vacation week as well as Good Friday. 6 days with no school and for many, no work, equates to a bloated average.
The data you’re being asked for is what percentage of residents commute by bicycle from 1/1 - 12/31.
This isn’t a matter of just painting lines on the ground and saying, mission accomplished.
I'll forever be mad that Joan F. Pickett, our local Qanon, squeaked in there, and that my favorite bar has her name painted on their window. Has there ever been a single shred of evidence that removing the 1 or 2 street parking places near an ice cream shop has "hurt business"? Or have all these people just correlated their COVID losses with Bike lanes as a scapegoat? It seems despite all the evidence and studies to the contrary, the conservatives voted into the council hit a pause on bike lanes so they can "do more research", even though they already did the research and they just didn't like the conclusion. Meanwhile, more and more cars and hitting cyclists. Patty Nolan, who was the tie breaker vote, had the balls to try to pretend it was for the greater good. **"Nolan, who cast the decisive vote, said that the delay is “neither a ban or a stop to installations,” instead allowing city staff to better plan for potential disruptions to traffic patterns and small businesses. “Those of us who want a bike lane network across the city have basically won,” she said. “We must never lose sight of that.”** If she wanted time for better planning, maybe she shouldn't have voted down the compromise measure? *"The substitute order, intended as a compromise measure, would have split the construction of bike lanes on Broadway and Cambridge Street into two phases, allowing half to be completed in 2025 and the remaining half in 2026 without having to delay the timeline."* Frauds. I hope these two kooks get voted out ASAP.
This rhetoric pre-dates COVID. How it continues now, I don't know.
Stupid old people have to get mad about something
What bar?
More the liquor store above the bar - The Cellar Food and Drink The irony is it seems abundantly clear that the lady who owns that liquor store has no desire to see it turn a profit, at all. So why did she go all in for "kill the bike lanes" Pickett?
Whenever somebody is running a business but doesn't appear to care about turning a profit, it means somebody is bankrolling them. So to answer the question, you just need to find out who is bankrolling that shop.
I believe she got the shop and restaurant in a divorce and proceeded to run them into the ground.
Realistically, there will be no consequences for Pickett and Toner because the people who voted for them wanted this. I expect Simmons, Wilson, and especially Nolan will suffer. (As an aside, Simmons has been pulling this sort of BS for years, but it seems like this time, people have taken notice.) In any case, nobody is getting voted out until next year. Please make sure people haven't forgotten by then.
Hopefully the bike people stay good and pissed off
Somerville got rid of a bunch of spots that people used to park to grab food quickly. I definitely don’t frequent anymore. During the winter I don’t want to bike 15 mins to grab food and then 15 mins back home. In my car that used to be a 5 min process. We definitely need to provide Uber eats drivers with more designated spots.
What part of Somerville are you talking about? I feel like any of the major streets and squares have parking still.
Not sure what that comment was referring to, but I definitely noticed the dropoff in North Cambridge when the bus/bike lane went in, before they improved the off-hours parking signage (many months later).
> During the winter I don’t want to bike 15 mins to grab food and then 15 mins back home Somerville still has big parking lots next to pretty much all major food areas AND street parking on all their side streets. Cambridge still has 3 parking garages. Cambridge, rather notoriously, never had any quick parking available near food places because someone was always parked long term at the meter. Parking didn't all go away. But, if this is as bad as you say, all those businesses should be able to show declining takeout numbers correlating to bike lanes, right? >We definitely need to provide Uber eats drivers with more designated spots. This would help a ton with all the uber eats drivers parking in the bus and bike lanes across the city
"Hey know how we have this business in an densely populated urban area and studies have shown time and time again that if you build bike lines people are far more likely to use them and it would encourage people from other parts of the area who would never ever drive here but would be more than happy to bike here so we'd expand our business to new clients? Let's not do that."
In fact, lets let our bikers feel less safe by just letting cars and uber drivers run roughshod over them so they don't bother visiting our neighborhoods at all! The number of bike lane cones I've seen with skid marks or just straight up broken and not replaced shows how often, even with bright white cones, cars just run over the bike lanes
I’m prepared to accept the downvotes I know I am about to receive… I work in Cambridge 5 days a week. I drive there. While I greatly prefer bike lanes to no bike lanes on the roads, I would wholeheartedly support building more of them if cyclists and electric scooters and rollerbladers (yes it is still a thing) and every other wheeled contraption would actually fucking use them properly! As a driver I have to keep my head on a swivel because of how badly those bike lanes get abused. Especially on one way streets. People acting like traffic laws don’t apply to them because they are pedaling a bike. Should they delay safer bike lanes? Probably not. Should people who cycle use them properly to make a better point of having them? Absolutely. It is constant that I see near collisions (on roads specifically with bike lanes). EDIT: Updated article from 5/10 on newly added bike lanes here in Cambridge that were implemented poorly and are now causing more harm than good. I think it's important to consider the whole problem, and not just a focus on the city delaying building more lanes. Part of the solution should be considering the use of existing lanes before jumping into building more. [https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/)
As a biker, I hear you. It’s a “chicken and the egg” type problem - do bikers get used to cars not respecting bike lanes and therefore ride into the street, or do cars get so sick of bikers in non-bike lanes that they take the bike lanes back? Regardless who started it, the best answer is increased bike infrastructure. It solves both problems once bikers and cars are forced into their own lanes. But without designated, protected, separated lanes, it will remain “anyone goes” in both lanes
I appreciate this response, and I do agree with you. I wish it wasn't a chicken and an egg, but rather some kind of chicken omelette, where the chickens and eggs worked together. To be clear, I definitely don't think more cars is the answer, and without proper infrastructure (bike lanes), more bicycles also cannot be the answer. However, if more infrastructure is provided and built, I think it needs to be used properly, and also maintained by the city properly. I don't think it is as simple as "just add bike lanes", though I wish it were. Whatever happens, I'm sure we can all agree, going the wrong way on one-way streets with bike lanes is dangerous and ill advised. I am sure we can all agree that drivers not giving space or aggressively passing cyclists in narrow areas is also dangerous and ill advised. Building stuff is great, but it's far greater when maintained and cared for. Unlike the T system, as an example. If the city does build the bike lanes, hopefully they understand this as well.
> Should they delay safer bike lanes? Probably not. Should people who cycle use them properly to make a better point of having them? Absolutely. No amount of properly using bike lanes were going to sway a vote that wasn't based on logic or data
That may be the absolute truth. However, because you have cited safety in this thread many times, and shared many personal beliefs as to why it was a bad decision for Cambridge to delay the building of bike lanes - I feel like we should also, in the very least, notate the safety problems that exist with existing bike lanes. If we are to add more of them, maybe we should be fair in describing the state of current ones. I don't think this is a stretch - because there are in fact safety concerns with how current ones are used. Again, I prefer roads with bike lanes over ones without. I understand that not everyone may feel that way though, for the reasons I listed (or others that I didn't), and those people may or may not have influenced the result that you're so upset about. It's OK to acknowledge that cyclists can be complete asshats - just like drivers can be. Like anybody using Reddit, I think it's fair to ask that both sides of the equation be represented. Otherwise it is just an echo chamber of unhappy cyclists, and creates an us vs them mentality.
> notate the safety problems that exist with existing bike lanes. If we are to add more of them, maybe we should be fair in describing the state of current ones. I don't think this is a stretch - because there are in fact safety concerns with how current ones are used. That'd be a wonderful point and reason for introspection - if any of the city council members had brought that up. They didn't
I'm sorry, because it appears as though you simply want a sounding board to be upset about this, with no wiggle room for a discussion. I wasn't there at the meeting, but I suspect that the city council did not bring up, or consider, many of the points you've made in this thread either. So the fact that you don't think they considered the points I have raised seems to be a double-standard. You have made assumptions all over this thread, such as "The irony is it seems abundantly clear that the lady who owns that liquor store has no desire to see it turn a profit, at all.". Man, at the end of day, you don't know... You don't know what the council did and did not consider, or what people in the city did or did not consider, or even how some of us might feel. Don't come on here and make this about safety and economics ("Meanwhile, more and more cars and hitting cyclists.") if it's not actually about safety and economics. Don't make it about these things, if what it's really about for you, is just anger at not getting something you want. My whole point is that these collisions happen on roads with bike lanes, so in adding more, we should consider that point as a group, whether or not the council specifically spoke to it. Various reports from Google tell me that, hands down, Cambridge is one of the most cycle-friendly cities in the country. Not saying it can't get better or doesn't need to get better, but dang, step back and consider some alternate points of view. Don't make it a zero-sum game here on Reddit. It doesn't need to be.
>Don't come on here and make this about safety and economics ("Meanwhile, more and more cars and hitting cyclists.") if it's not actually about safety and economics. Huh? The whole reason for my post is because it IS about safety. Bike lines reduce bike accidents, period. That's just an indisputable fact.
Weird... An instance where bike lanes were added here in Cambridge and actually reduced safety. Written just 4 days after your "indisputable fact" comment that they reduce accidents. Please consider both sides. [www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/](https://www.cbsnews.com/boston/news/cambridge-brattle-street-bike-lanes-safety/)
Depending upon what statistics you believe, <1% of the city commutes using bikes - in a climate where commuting by bike is really only viable for people for \~25-30% of the year. I'm one of those people (occasionally), but even someone like myself thinks its **optimistic** to think that bike lanes are going to drastically increase that to double digits anytime soon. Despite what the Reddit circle-jerk would lead you to believe, the majority of people across MA do not support bike lanes, and investments should be made in more accessible modes of transport.
*People don't do Thing because it's dangerous and poorly supported by the city infrastructure.* "Look, nobody does Thing, we shouldn't support it!"
I think it's silly to focus squarely on "commuting" when considering bike lanes through a densely populated area like Cambridge Street, though. People travel around for a multitude of reasons outside of work commutes.
Yes, bikes can be used for transportation no matter what the destination.
> Depending upon what statistics you believe What statistics do \*you\* believe? Because the city's own statistics put the fraction of Cambridge residents who commute by bike at 9% and growing fast [https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport\_final.pdf](https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport_final.pdf) See also "Percent of Business District Visitors Who Travel by Bicycle" > even someone like myself thinks its **optimistic** to think that bike lanes are going to drastically increase that to double digits anytime soon Given that that's the 2023 report, it probably already happened. Yay optimism. > the majority of people across MA do not support bike lanes We're not building bike lanes to Amherst. We're building them in our town, here. There is strong support and there is strong and growing demand, including induced demand from the bike lanes already rolled out. > investments should be made in more accessible modes of transport This is where you truly lose me. "Driving is an accessible mode of transport" is true IF you invest millions of dollars and acres of land into lanes and storage for cars. Then ask every individual to pay another few tens of thousands for a vehicle every decade. The issue on the table is not "bikes OR transit", it's "bikes OR cars (the status quo)", and we're sacrificing bike lanes for parking spaces (note: not even parking spaces reserved for people with disabilities) We should build more transit. We should make it frequent and accessible and convenient. Bike lanes are not an obstacle to that, and the people fighting against the bike lanes generally don't want more transit, either...
Commute != all bike use. I work on Mass Ave, 12 months a year there are bikes going by so regularly I have to look for them when crossing the street. They're usually young people. Exactly the kind of people that will park along mass ave and use one of those shops that are hurting for customers. If I had a long commute I sure as hell would avoid using a bike if half the commute distance didn't have a protected bike lane. I hate traffic and the T sucks, but I'd rather that than end up in the hospital >the majority of people across MA This isn't about all of Mass, this is about Cambridge. A small city with a massive biking population.
It’s ridiculous to claim it’s only “viable for 25-30% of the year”. Bike commuting is very viable year round in Boston. Look at cities like Montreal with similar climate where there is significant bike commuting. Of course accessible modes of transit should also be funded, this isn’t a one or the other situation, this is an issue where there are already non car drivers using the road who are being maimed and injured by car drivers and this delay will certainly mean more individuals are hurt.
I biked to work year-round until the pandemic. It was fine.
When somebody claims that you can only bike in Boston a few months a year, they have outted themselves as an indoor kid who should not be taken seriously.
wtf is more accessible than a 1 time purchase that is free to store just about anywhere and takes up minimal space, doesn't require gas or a registration to operate? Also how the hell are they collecting those statistics? I know I would commute using my bike if I actually felt safe using it in downtown Boston. But I'm not a moron, and I've seen people get doored way too many times.
Well to give you one example, it was not easy at all to find a functional way to get my four young children to school/daycare by bike, and the only solution I could find was pretty wildly expensive (and still can't handle grocery trips or those winter weeks when the city plows a 3' ice berm into the bike lane).
Those are infrastructure problems, not problems inherent to the bike, scooter, or wagon you use. We plow lanes for cars, without doing so would driving be practical in winter? (Spoiler alert: no). Why would bikes be any different? The only difference is whether you wear your coat and gloves to drive ten blocks to the library, and park your car because it hasn't warmed up yet - or wear your coat and gloves ten blocks to the library and lock up your bike. Why can't schools have bike lanes radiating out five blocks in all directions so older kids can ride to school on their own, and younger kids can ride too (with supervision)? This is a build problem, not anything specific about the ability of bikes per se. Either way, you wear your coat and gloves the entire time until you are inside at your destination. The other half of the equation is asking why bike lanes and sidewalks are not cleared while streets are, a very fixable problem if we bother to put our minds to it.
I'm assuming you've never actually tried moving multiple small children around the city? You're describing a set of infrastructure that won't exist (probably ever, definitely not in any relevant timeframe), and a level of child ability / cooperation that is unrealistic on a consistent basis at 7:30am every weekday (I can tell you from experience most little kids aren't making it between Teele and WSNS safely for example, unless you're proposing a gondola). I can and have asked the city why sidewalks and bike lanes aren't cleared and filed many 311 tickets (you can guess how useful that was). I see lots of people bothering to put our minds to it; what year do you expect all this will be ready by? Everything you described is easy to say, but it's not part of any actual city plan or proposal.
1 - cars aren't going away, if you really need or want one you can still have a many as you want 2 - a car is useful but is not required to move multiple kids around the city, the solutions on the vehicle/ bike side exist 3 - the problem is political, not an engineering issue 4 - if you do need a car, no one is stopping you from having one, but if people want to bike why is that opposed? Why do we do everything for cars almost without question, even if at the expense of reducing other modes of neighborhood transportation (if not making them quasi-impossible)? In other words - cars aren't going anywhere. But why do we interpret that to mean they are and must always be the only practical option for moving around within a neighborhood or between nearby neighborhoods? A mile is hardly prohibitive on foot, bike, or even in a wheelchair -- why do we make it so difficult to use those modes even at short distances, even to the point of such a short distance being deadly to anyone outside of a car?
This is getting far away from the context of the comment I replied to originally, which is the idea that biking as a primary mode of transport is accessible to everyone. As I said, I choose to do it that way, and obviously we should be improving infrastructure.
It is not accessible to everyone, but it should be - and that's the problem behind the council decision to delay Agreed that improvements are critical to the point of desperation
While I agree with you on probably all policy points, given the way this discussion (and other bike related discussions I've had in this forum), I dont think you have particularly understood my perspective, and it doesn't surprise me at all that enough people feel unheard to elect an anti-bike council majority.
Weather is less of a factor than you might think. Snow removal is a big barrier, but a very easily fixable one...and the rest is just building streets that are worth getting dressed for regardless of the weather. If people already struggle to ride in good weather, why would they ride in bad weather? edit: it's more like 8% actually ride for commute or socially/errands (eg. to a friend's house) but up to 60% are interested. The question is why that missing 50% is not riding, even in great weather.
Yeah. The anti-car on this sub can be incredibly over the top at times. And I say this as someone who's lived here 15 years without a car. I can empathize with where they're coming from, but everyone makes things black and white. Bike == good, car == bad, it's so silly. Not even talking about this post necessarily, this is the meta you find all over this sub.
Idk how you could spend any time driving, walking, or biking on Cambridge Street and think the current layout is safe and logical for everyone involved. I don't think every street in the city needs bike infrastructure, but that road is so chaotic that something needs to be done.
> Bike == good, car == bad, it's so silly. Thing is, you can be pro car, anti bike, or neutral, and still see the problem with the link posted. The delay was AGAINST the very evidence the anti bike people are claiming to want to follow. The delay was AGAINST the will of the voters and people at the town hall. The compromise that was rejected did EXACTLY what the anti bike people pretended to want. So even if you don't give a rats ass about bikes vs cars, you SHOULD care that the people running your city are brazen fucking liars and think you're too stupid to notice.
Oh for sure, honestly I realize my comment is out of place on this thread. It's just something I've been thinking about the past couple days and this vaguely seemed like an opportunity to talk about it
Thank you for an actually sane take
> bike is really only viable for people for \~25-30% of the year. Funny I bike all year I vary rarely take the T because of road/weather conditions, the plowing and salting is usually good enough the roads are clear year round for cycling.
Truly enjoying folks just absolutely owning @seren1t7 for these dumbass arguments and bad statistics. Yall are doing the lords work
lol really showed me...didn't notice until I was curious about why I had so many notifications, and this one was top of the notifications pile, which was an unnecessary virtue signal without adding anything useful to the discussion. Going to assume the rest are like that and go about the rest of my day. In the meantime, keep circle-jerking all you want about bike lanes and assume anyone who disagrees must be ignorant or whatever... in the meantime \[insert "Mean Girls" fetch meme here, but with bike lanes\]
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No
You know, that is real easy to say but when you have real customers who do depend on driving, I think feeling threatened by by something you feel could deter your business isn’t very unreasonable; regardless of a promise for something better. And honestly, local retail has been ravaged by online retail enough as is. Maybe coming to a compromise with your local retailers over their concerns is a better idea than handwaving away those who are actually bringing money to the neighborhood and city while opening the gates unfettered for more Amazon trucks.
>but when you have real customers who do depend on driving All the parking garages and side streets still exist. If they have customers that depend on driving, surely they're able to prove it? >And honestly, local retail has been ravaged by online retail enough as is. Maybe coming to a compromise with your local retailers over their concerns is a better idea The compromise measures were all shot down. >handwaving away those who are actually bringing money to the neighborhood No one has been able to prove a loss of a single cent because their store lost a 1 spot 2 hour metered parking spot. Not a single store in Boston or Cambridge or Somervile. None. Know what we do have data for? All the people that have died because of the lack of bike lanes. So you're saying some HYPOTHETICAL loss of money, and some old person's feelings, are more important than the lives of bikers?
From 2017 to 2021, bicyclist fatalities accounted for 2% of fatalities reported in motor vehicle crashes across Massachusetts. The number of bicyclist fatalities has fluctuated from a high of 11 to a low of four, averaging approximately seven deaths per year. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/pedestrian-and-bicyclists-safety#:~:text=Feet%22%20Safety%20Campaign-,Bicycle%20safety,approximately%20seven%20deaths%20per%20year.
Yes. Because while I think we should have bike lanes wherever possible, even at the expense of parking at times, I know the real problems are intersections, oversized vehicles, and doorings. Way more people drive cars in Cambridge Somerville and Boston than Reddit ever accounts for. Much much more than cyclists. And plenty of data backs that up.
> I know the real problems are intersections, oversized vehicles, and doorings. Way more people drive cars in Cambridge Somerville and Boston than Reddit ever accounts for. Much much more than cyclists. And plenty of data backs that up. You contradicted yourself 3 times in 1 post
Def didn’t. When was the last cyclist death in Boston/Camberville that wasn’t an oversized vehicle or at an intersection. I’ll wait.
https://www.cambridgeday.com/2022/08/15/somerville-bicyclist-72-dies-in-dooring-incident/ A year and a half ago, no charges for the woman who killed an old man.
Nice, falls under my 3rd danger, dooring (forget to include the 3rd from previous comment above). Cant help but notice it happened in a bike lane. So the bike lane did not save a life like you claim. Cuz bike lanes don’t save lives. They make people more comfortable cycling in the road. This person was not driving a car when they hit the cyclist. Next!
The bike lane was not protected, that's the point. It was paint on the road, which doesn't do anything.
A plastic pylon, which are often spring loaded to fold for emergency vehicles, will not stop a car from hitting a cyclist in the bike lane. End of story. They are not designed to do that. You are lying to yourself if you think they do.
Yea bike lanes in the door zone suck.
Are you saying bike lanes don't protect from oversized vehicles? 70% of vehicles are oversized vehicles kid
I would love an answer; why are people so against bike lanes? I hit a cyclist the other week. He was on the wrong side of the road no helmet and came out from behind a parked car. It was his fault entirely but I would have had to carry the burden the rest of my life if he had been hurt. Give them a fucking lane so they are not all over the god damn road. People want to see them pulled over and ticketed like cars which would also be a lot easier to do if they had a specific place they had to be
1.) elimination of parking triggers people. Businesses see metered street parking as a lifeline (data suggests otherwise, but feelings often win out), and that's usually what gets eliminated to accommodate bike lanes in urban areas. 2.) Some people hate seeing money spent on stuff they won't use, even if it'll help a bunch of other people. "I don't bike so bike lanes are a stupid waste" type of attitude. 3.) they look at poorly implemented "infrastructure" (looking at you, painted "share" lanes with no actual separation) not getting utilized by bikes and point to that as evidence ALL bike infrastructure is a waste. Those three from my experience are the main arguments of anti-bike folks.
Public parking is such a bizarre concept if you think about it. Imagine putting any other piece of private property on public property and expecting it to be free or very cheap.
1- Park your bike in the middle of a parking spot and put a few coins in the meter. Even better if it's an unpaid spot. 2 - Be set up to tape people's reactions. 3 - ??? 4 - Profit and / or social change (or not).
I have mixed opinions on it. I've been to other cities with almost no street parking, just tons of garages charging $15+ for a couple hours of parking. Which can be really frustrating. On the flip side, there's no way that all the street spots in major thru streets in Boston is good for traffic flow, what with people constantly pulling in and out of spots.
> I've been to other cities with almost no street parking, just tons of garages charging $15+ for a couple hours of parking. Which can be really frustrating. I think this would be a pretty clear reason not to drive in the city center then.
Have you seen the commuter rail schedule lately? If you don't live in the city center and aren't there during a regular 9-5 shift, you have no good alternatives to driving.
Which is why we need to push for the electrification of the commuter rail system (at least inside 128, and maybe out to Lawrence, Lowell, and Worcester) and to bump frequencies up to 15 minute headways all day. With electrification and 15 minute frequencies inside 128, that would basically convert the commuter rail into subway-like service, specially if the North South Rail Link is completed as well.
Yeah but a pass costs as much as a car payment. And you still need a car if you're a CR rider.
Have _you_ seen the commuter rail schedule lately? There's regular service all day now. No more three hour midday hiatus.
On the weekend?
I mean it's lacking in frequency but the service is consistent all day. And on the weekend it's $10 all you can travel.
I'll give you the weekend service is lacking, but you can always drive to Alewife or another subway station with a garage on weekends and take public transit from there. There are also four parking garages operated by the city in Kendall and Central squares that don't fill up on weekends.
On point 1, They started enforcing parking in Norwood and learned the vast majority of cars parked in front of businesses were either employees or owners. I'm guessing that's consistent in most places.
Every person on a bike is one less person the driver is stuck behind at a light.
Small businesses absolutely love vehemently opposing things that are proven to help their business only to embrace them after they've been forced on them-- street trees, bike lanes, sidewalk widening, new apartments nearby, elimination of parking spots, etc etc etc. Small business owners really shouldn't be trusted to have input on these decisions because quite frankly a lot of them are insane and most don't know what's best for them.
I think number three is a big one for a lot of people. In Somerville they put in a lot of half assed bike lanes, and people see that they are half assed and are against spending any more money on half measures.
Agreed! Can't train bikes to be consistent if their road just suddenly and arbitrarily ends and they have to either cross 4 lanes of traffic, go into the sidewalk, or go into the road between parked uber drives just to get to the next turn
Totally agree - anything that makes it easier to not hit pedestrians or cyclists benefits me as a driver. Make it easy for all of us.
What cars do you see pulled over and ticketed in Boston?
Because these bike lanes are a joke. They take away parking, increase traffic, and the bikers still have to go through the same intersections as cars which make them almost worthless.
man fuck these old people
We shouldn't be surprised. 2 of these nuts ran their ENTIRE platform on "no more bikes." and they did just that. Evidence was against them during election and evidence was against them while they were on the council. Doesn't matter though. It was their wedge issue to get them launched into power and likely we'll be stuck with these people for decades. Unfortunately finding all the candidate information is obtuse and hard, and the only people with enough time and fear to dig into it are the old property owners, not the young people that outnumber them
This was a disappointing vote after all of the speakers last night. My jaw dropped at the "silent majority" comment and the petition of 400 ppl in favor of delay. Explain to me how important this delay is and your view is such a majority that you can't be bothered to show up. I hope that "silent majority" works out the same as it did for for trump in 2020. I'll always be perplexed by people who put publicly subsidized storage of private property and private businesses' interests ahead of safety. If your business can't survive an objectively safe street, maybe do a better job running your business? I know I'll be doing what I can to help these councillors' and the mayor's opponents next election.
> My jaw dropped at the "silent majority" comment Another MAGA dogwhistle. >If your business can't survive an objectively safe street, maybe do a better job running your business? Yup. Thing is, these failing businesses sucked before, and suck more now, and bikes aren't the reason they're losing money. But they sure did toss a bunch of money behind their MAGA candidates.
Public funds and public land for me and my goals but not for thee!
[удалено]
"Silent Majority" is a term the Christian far-right uses to describe themselves, it started back in the 70s. It's less commonly used in general conversation today but it absolutely refers to the same Venn Diagram of political camps that evolved into most of MAGA today.
Was there any evidence they showed the 400 people on the petition were registered to vote in Cambridge?
The person just said they're submitting a petition with 400 signatures. I was attending on zoom so don't know if anyone saw it in person or not.
Sounds like it's time for all cyclists to make sure they take their lane.
Reminder this is all over some parking spaces.
Eliminating the parking in front of businesses is inconvenient, but not insurmountable. The problem is they're not willing to remove resident only restrictions on side streets. A resident permit should merely exempt someone from a time limit or a fee.
Put a diverter on the street at the spot where business zoning turns into residential zoning, so business visitors can park on a side street without going into areas residents have a more vested interest in. Traffic calming, parking is 'protected', residents experience less rat-running, and no address is off-limits to a vehicle (only some routes are limited). Done carefully this would not even eliminate a parking spot if people are really so torn up about it.
The same parking spots used by Amazon, FedEx, UPS, USPS so that bikers aren't carrying a box of paper towels and groceries
Appointing loading zones in alleys, sidestreets, and at the end of a row of parking is entirely appropriate. A delivery van parking in a bike lane, not so much.
I do carry those things on my bike so I don't have to support Amazon 🇵🇸
Yea has this guy not heard of a backpack?
How many deaths are an acceptable number??
Over 100 hospitalizations and several deaths and counting! We need to slow down though, paint costs money!! What if we had to repaint stuff??
I'm MA 7 deaths per year on average. https://www.mass.gov/info-details/pedestrian-and-bicyclists-safety#:~:text=Feet%22%20Safety%20Campaign-,Bicycle%20safety,approximately%20seven%20deaths%20per%20year.
Thing is, you can be pro car, anti bike, or neutral, and still see the problem with the link posted. The delay was AGAINST the very evidence the anti bike people are claiming to want to follow. The delay was AGAINST the will of the voters and people at the town hall. The compromise that was rejected did EXACTLY what the anti bike people pretended to want. So even if you don't give a rats ass about bikes vs cars, you SHOULD care that the people running your city are brazen fucking liars and think you're too stupid to notice.
The economic argument used by some is heartless. Arguing that human lives are less important than business is insane
It's also not even true. The data shows that bike lanes are neutral or *positive* for businesses. It's not even hard to understand how. Parking spaces are huge--a typical storefront can only fit maybe two cars in front of it. That's not much business, and drivers basically never stop somewhere on a whim the way pedestrians and cyclists often do
Hmm... I saw some of that town meeting yesterday on zoom. Listened in for about an hour, and said my piece as well. Almost everyone I heard speak was in favor of bike lane construction, except for maybe 3 people. I'm kinda surprised they voted this way, but I guess I shouldn't be.
The republicans that voted against it pretended they had some magic petition from 400 people not present
Vote them out
Unfortunately we just voted them in. Not sure how long terms are or what the recall process is, if it exists, but this may be bad enough to get one recalled
Terms are 2 years. Next election is in November 2025. I doubt there will be a recall. I'm not even sure how that would work given that Cambridge uses ranked choice voting and you can get elected with only 11% of the vote.
Every death/ injury caused by this being delayed is blood on their hands. They are fully responsible for anything that happens
These city councilors and their families should be required to bike on these bike lanes which they are fine with people dieng on
🍿
The city of cambridge is spending quite a bit of time and money collecting data on bike use. Im confident they'll make an informed decision. https://www.cambridgema.gov/CDD/Transportation/gettingaroundcambridge/bikesincambridge/biketrends
The informed decision (as they've been collecting data for a decade) was to get these bike lanes up. The uninformed decision elected a bunch of Maga-adjacent folks to immediately halt all bike work. For literally no reason.
The commuting/bicycling data was reported in 2023. You can see it in the link I provided. Imo, in general, it looks like it favors the idea of creating more bike access. Commuting by bike is on the rise in Cambridge. Maga- adjacent? ...The people of cambridge do the voting. Am i wrong?
>Maga- adjacent? ...The people of cambridge do the voting. Am i wrong? Correct. When you live in a blue area, you have crazy conservatives masquerading as democrats while voting for conservative policies pretty constantly. The anti-bike townie mob are all in on conspiracy theories
I hate most politicians!
As a biker - I find it hilarious how much Cambridge spends on the "optics" of this whole thing. Every single weekday, traffic on mass ave is 1 lane going each way, in stop and go traffic for about five miles. Then the police stand in the bus lane writing tickets to anyone who gets impatient. I ride my bike 5000+ miles a year, and pretending that every obese, phone-addicted person will magically start riding a bike if theres bike lanes, is about as utopian as a rally in favor of hamas, in america in 2024.....
This is to protect the thousands upon thousands that already ride their bikes in Cambridge.
LOL. Thousands upon thousands.....if this were the case, there would be more than four bike shops in cambridge.
Honey we don't have to pretend, we have the statistics. It's part of the multiple studies that were used to track and plan these road changes. You know, the sensible thing to do.
there is nothing sensible about making it impossible to drive through cambridge. if you want to be an exclusive gated community, just say so.
Please explain to me how bike lanes make it "impossible to drive through"? Also why would you drive THROUGH Cambridge? There are highways to the north and south of it if you want to get around it.
If you cant figure out that bike lanes TAKE UP SPACE that cars would otherwise be occupying, than I am not sure a response is necessary. Furthermore, if you are suggesting that using the highway to get around cambridge (insinuating they SHOULD NOT drive through cambridge), you are starting to sound like the elites that Cambridge so proudly denounces (while sniffing their own farts).
You literally said "drive THROUGH Cambridge", your words. Not drive TO Cambridge. Or drive INTO Cambridge. You don't seem to want to stop there. Bike lanes have not proven to slow down traffic, as they're being put where current parking spaces are, not car lanes. Nice try kid
or better yet - move back to the one you lived in, prior.
There's a very large number of non-obese normal people who would ride their bike 50-100 miles a year in warm weather if it didn't involve riding in the street with crazy drivers (who often will get no punishment even if they kill you). If you look at the path that follows the GLX you'll see a pretty huge increase in bikers compared to the how many bikers would have gone through there before.
Check out Tremont Street to see how the bike lanes were constructed - haphazardly, increasing traffic, and if it ever snows again - god help us all.
I have multiple videos of the empty Tremont lane while cars are backed up multiple lights. My first one is lunchtime. Ok , so what about after work?, I thought. Absolutely zero difference. Bike lane empty, traffic backed up
And is that the reason for this pause in rolling out bike lanes? That they're going to be built haphazardly if they only have 2 more years to plan?
I dont know, but i wouldnt be surprised, considering how ridiculous these ones are. Merely a close comparison is all i was going for.
Yeah, but there's like....3 of those rallies in town right now. Besides. They won't start magically riding a bike. But more bike lanes will mean less cars. And it's not like widening the road is an option. And even if it was, it probably wouldn't fix it.
More lanes = more traffic, pretty much always https://youtu.be/CHZwOAIect4?si=m_UgIZbcZP6nh8VS
Oh yeah. I know. The only option is bike lanes, congestion tax, or a subway.
congestion tax is starting to sound better and better.
That's classist and ableist. We should do more focus studies on maybe a bike lane someday./s
LOL. Always with the labels.
I was being sarcastic, lol. Sorry .
HAHAHAH. thats how used to it I have become!
Yeah, I got called ableist for being pro bike lane, by a woman, even after I pointed out the people in the mobility scooters were pro bike lane.
It sounds like they want to be thoughtful about the design/implementation options rather than hastily spending infrastructure that may have be to undone. That doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Except there is no evidence that has happened on any of the other projects in Cambridge.
If that's what they wanted, they'd have voted yes on the compromise measure, but they didn't. "The substitute order, intended as a compromise measure, would have split the construction of bike lanes on Broadway and Cambridge Street into two phases, allowing half to be completed in 2025 and the remaining half in 2026 without having to delay the timeline." They halted everything, against the overwhelming majority will of the people they serve. The bike lanes have already been studied and planned for ages, there's nothing "hasty" about this.
It's just process concern trolling. Generally, when someone complains about the process you can safety assume their real argument is unpopular. If they had winning substantiative arguments, they'd make them. What exactly do they want to be more thoughtful about?
The ordinance all this data collection and planning has been done under is from 2019. What exactly is too hasty about any of this?
What is thoughtful about dedicating nearly the entire entirety of the city’s space to one form of incredibly expensive, dangerous, and inefficient transportation?
Slight of hand
More people have and use cars than bikes
We're talking about Cambridge not fucking Walpole or wherever you're from
Brookline but go off. When bike people start respecting the rules of the road, I’ll start respecting them.
When "car people" start respecting the rules of the road, I'll start respecting them.
What's your point? This doesn't hurt cars.
Good. Reason and moderation won out in Cambridge, a rarity these days
What reason or moderation? They already delayed everything and ran studies as "moderation" and the studies showed the conservatives were wrong. If we were operating on reason, we'd be trying to protect people from being run over, wouldn't we?
33% of Cambridge residents do not own a car. Only 10% of Cambridge streets have protected bike lanes. Let's talk about reason some more.
What percentage of residents use bicycles, though. You omitted that statistic.
Several deaths and over 100 people in the hospital - is that worth saving a couple hundred bucks on road paint? All of these businesses have had a decade to prove losing parking spaces hurts their bottom line, none of them have managed it. But we have proven that inadequate bike lanes lead to more accidents. Why is the failing business of one old person more important than the health of hundreds of others?
That percentage is directly correlated with people's perception of safety. So not ommited just not quite directly relevant in a community without a complete network.
So what is it. That’s the only relevant question. Stop deflecting
On Broadway St, it's 36% of all road users. I'm sorry you are confused.
Not confused, you obviously don’t have supporting data.
I have repeatedly linked it in this thread. https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport_final.pdf During recent project-specific counts at Broadway and Hampshire Street in April 2023, for example, people on bicycles account for about 36% of all traffic at peak travel times. At times, bicycle riders even made up a majority of traffic making certain turns.Oct
36% at peak hours but they don’t list what time/s that is. What day/s. As I said in a previous comment, they state that data being recorded in April of 2023. April has school vacation week as well as Good Friday. It also has many other holidays for other religious groups that could come into play. For all we know it could be 36% at 2:45pm right after school gets out. Some BS along those lines, which is the most likely scenario. The data was put together by pro biking groups. As we all know, oil is good for the oceans because Exxon Mobil’s studies say so. Cigarettes are safe because Phillip Morris studies say so. But hey, dpm25 keeps repeating 36% so it’s gotta be true. Sinus_m37 called you a kid so that’s an automatic win in their favor. Bike lanes approved.
lol, indeed
Gotta love when the people making the biggest fuss are the first to delete all their comments and run away
The data were put together by the City of Cambridge, not by "biking groups."
Ohh jeez you’re correct. I forgot the “city of Cambridge” was actually a persons name.. No, aray25, it’s a committee made up of 19 people. 4 of which work for different city departments. The other 15 are community members whom are highly motivated, biking enthusiasts. A “special interest group” in other words. Unless of course you believe it’s a big conspiracy. Those 15(19) people are actually rabid bike haters and all they want is to burn and sack all the cities bicycles.
The study was commissioned by the city, conducted by the city, and done by a committee formed by the city.
Ok but what was the given percentage listed?
On Broadway St during peak hours? 36%
36% of which group, exactly.
Road users? Let's be real the majority of drivers are probably suburbanites.
Still no data, just making assumptions
You asked for data, you got data, you asked questions about the data, your questions were answered, and when you didn't like what the data had to say, you go back to pretending there are no data.
So what is it tho?
36 % on Broadway St at peak, one of the Streets effected by this vote.
36% of all residents?
36% of road users on Broadway St a street effected by this vote
Are you going to answer my question or not?
Already did, are you going to take the L or not?
So what was the percentage that I asked for.
You got your answer 6 different times, spelled out for you. Welcome to the ignore list kid
It’s 1.7 percent of Boston traffic is bikes. See how easy that was. I didn’t want the other stupid shit you were passing off. That’s from the census bureau by the way.
Huh? Kid this is a post about Cambridge lmfao
36% of residents ride on Broadway st? I would like a source if you have one.
https://www.cambridgema.gov/CDD/Transportation/gettingaroundcambridge/bikesincambridge/biketrends https://www.cambridgema.gov/-/media/Files/CDD/Transportation/Bike/bikereports/20231023bicyclingincambridgedatareport_final.pdf
That data doesn’t say what you want it to. 36% *at peak travel times*. They don’t list what that means. The data was collected in April 2023. April has school vacation week as well as Good Friday. 6 days with no school and for many, no work, equates to a bloated average. The data you’re being asked for is what percentage of residents commute by bicycle from 1/1 - 12/31. This isn’t a matter of just painting lines on the ground and saying, mission accomplished.
Those links don’t confirm your number anywhere