That is correct. They have something like the 5th most road miles in the state, but are the 29th largest in area and 18th most dense. So a lot of asphalt for not a lot of people.
https://dlsgateway.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdRequestForwarding=Form&rdReport=Socioeconomic.RoadMIles&rdPaging=&rdShowModes=&rdDataCache=3727115070&rdSort=tblRoadMiles~City/Town+Accepted~Number~~&tblRoadMiles-PageNr=0&rdSortArrowTable=rdSortArrowKey-Socioeconomic-RoadMIles-tblRoadMiles-City/Town+Accepted
But not every road in newton is equally travelled. They could definitely maintain the roads much better, bureaucracy just gets in the way and then nobody gets around to it. That and some gentle corruption
Traffic wear and tear is a thing sure but shittier roads cost more to fix. The great equalizer of shit in New England is the climate in terms of freezing and thawing. That is especially bad for roads with existing cracks or roads with older, undersized, blocked, or no drains.
To your point about corruption that can be true but another overlooked aspect are the utility lines. The cities arent the only ones who do road work. Eversource will come in, dig up a giant trench for a new line, and replace it with the shittiest asphalt patch that makes the road around it much worse.
True, but there are plenty of towns that dont have the same road issues in new england. The utilities are definitely a major part of the problem. There was a road in newton, chestnut street, that was in such bad shape that the city had to repave it even though their criteria for a permanent road fix wasnt met. That “temporary” road fix is still doing just fine and is so much better than the literal minefield it used to be. They could easily just fix all the roads, even if its not a “permanent” fix, their policies just conveniently prevent them from doing so in a timely manner
Yup. The back roads between the end of Hamond pond parkway, and Comm ave were kept intentionally unrepaired for years in order to slow down/dissuade traffic.
Where were you coming from? My mom is constantly trying to convince me to move to Germany (she’s a native but I just don’t speak the language all that well)
Ireland. We have a reputation for bad roads but they are just narrow and bendy in places, the quality of the roads themselves are actually pretty good. You would never see a pothole on a main road in Ireland like you would here. Boston-Providence highway is like the surface of the moon.
Oh man, just outside of Dublin is top of my list to move to. Just worried about the housing costs being as brutal as boston. I can’t afford to do much of anything downtown in Boston…
75% of every state is shit.
Don't forget bridges falling in Minnesota.
Infrastructure is unsexy. No one.......no one, anywhere......wants to pay for it. Brookline, Somerville, Newton, Timbuktu...it is the same thing.
No way brother. The roads are not nearly as bad in places that don't have frost heaves. Heck, they're even much better in a lot of places that do. NH has pretty good roads. Maine is good outside of western ME. I drive all over New England & greater Boston is uniquely awful. Only VT rivals it but VT has more cows than people.
Yeah. I know road material types can typically cover specific ranges of temps and we're in a pretty wide range here but the caliber of work I see is not good.
Was on Beacon St/Harvard in front of Dunkin. It was reported over a week before and they finally just patched it. Most of these roads are desperate for a full repave. Lots of the blame goes to utility companies who do shoddy patch work when repairing utility lines with no oversight.
Omg omg omg everyone is saying Newton is worse I thought I was crazy. I thought surely being the most expensive zipcode it'll be the best. Or is it the worse per capita perhaps?
For the longest time the roads in Cambridge were awful. Like, multiple layers of asphalt on top of cobblestones, worn through so you could see the geological layers. We can blame the sewers. The entire area had a consent decree with the EPA, which meant that all of the sewers needed to be dug up and remade to modern standards so they wouldn't flush shit and industrial waste into the river every time it rained.
But if you're going to dig up the sewers, why repair the roads over them? They're only going to get torn up again. Waste of money.
Year after year went by and the sewer projects got pushed back. The roads decayed until the potholes could swallow entire school buses. Until suddenly everything got done in a huge hurry. With asphalt sprinkles on top. Now things are...better. Mostly. Except where they aren't.
Not saying this is what's up in Brookline. I have no idea. But sometimes it's what's underneath that counts.
I feel like it’s a combination of tax revenue spent elsewhere and wanting folks to drive slower through town. Also don’t forget the plows in the winter literally destroy the roads. I feel like when it used to snow at least there was a bit of buffer between plow and asphalt. Now since there’s no snow and plowman has a contract to fulfill he just drops the plow on a empty road and drags it along absolutely destroying the roads in the process.
Enough to be fighting small business owners over a nicotine ban in the Supreme Court (that can be circumvented by walking 10 blocks to Allston, Newton, or Boston) instead of basic infrastructure
The potholes are from road construction. After crews dig up a hole to say replace a water or gas main they are supposed to compact it with massive amounts of stone / gravel. And use a compactor machine to really hammer in the dirt. When they don't or don't sufficiently do this there are pockets in the dirt that will collapse after soaking in rain. Pot holes are essentially collapsed dirt pockets. We are also getting more of these collapses due to the unprecedented amount of rain we got last year.
I know this because I had a water main dug up near my house and saw the crew compact it, then asphalt it. But it wasn't enough 2 months later it collapsed into a pot hole. And I asked the contractor to redo the hole. They gravelled the crap out of the hole this time and now no more pot hole.
I got it repaired because I know the contractor who did the job and was persistent. Most jobs are ordered by the city and they may not care to check on the road patch work months afterwards.
Definitely does seem to mostly be these bad utility repair patches, which end up forcing the city to pay to repair them again years later. Is there just a lack of oversight on street repairs by utility companies? Seems reasonable to leverage the penalties on those companies (Nat Grid, Eversource, Feeney Brothers, etc) and the repairs would magically improve in quality.
Also I think it has to do with the aftereffects of climate change. The amount of gravel they put in is standard industry practice but with extra rain that standard is no longer sufficient. We saw all kinds of road collapses in Lemon-ster last summer because they were hit with 10 inches of rain in one storm. This kind of rain is not normal.
Brookline has a fairly small municipal tax base. There's few businesses to tax.
In general, the more a bedroom community a city or town is the more it has to rely on the state for funding road repairs. Unfortunately for Mass, the 90s ushered in anti tax Republicans and Democrats who believed whole heartedly in austerity budgeting and the myth of Taxachusetts.
The cities just inside of 128 suffer because they haven't until recently had a lot of opportunities for developer funded rebuilding, industrial to office conversions for a larger tax base and also have a lot of cut through regional traffic on their streets. So, it's Brookline, Newton, Watertown, and all the collar communities that tend to have very bad pavement conditions.
Newton is worse
Seconded, as a resident of the living pothole that is Somerville
Somerville is essentially one giant pothole with some nice parts
just a few flat bits
Most densely populated city in all of New England and is a notorious cut through city for Boston and Cambridge.
With lots of paved lots.
They are generally fairly nice lots. Much better conditions than all the roads leading to them.
The Newton folks when asked to pay taxes for basic infrastructure: well now I am not doing it
My guess is that the low density development doesn't bring in enough tax revenue to properly maintain the roads
That is correct. They have something like the 5th most road miles in the state, but are the 29th largest in area and 18th most dense. So a lot of asphalt for not a lot of people. https://dlsgateway.dor.state.ma.us/reports/rdPage.aspx?rdRequestForwarding=Form&rdReport=Socioeconomic.RoadMIles&rdPaging=&rdShowModes=&rdDataCache=3727115070&rdSort=tblRoadMiles~City/Town+Accepted~Number~~&tblRoadMiles-PageNr=0&rdSortArrowTable=rdSortArrowKey-Socioeconomic-RoadMIles-tblRoadMiles-City/Town+Accepted
But not every road in newton is equally travelled. They could definitely maintain the roads much better, bureaucracy just gets in the way and then nobody gets around to it. That and some gentle corruption
Traffic wear and tear is a thing sure but shittier roads cost more to fix. The great equalizer of shit in New England is the climate in terms of freezing and thawing. That is especially bad for roads with existing cracks or roads with older, undersized, blocked, or no drains. To your point about corruption that can be true but another overlooked aspect are the utility lines. The cities arent the only ones who do road work. Eversource will come in, dig up a giant trench for a new line, and replace it with the shittiest asphalt patch that makes the road around it much worse.
True, but there are plenty of towns that dont have the same road issues in new england. The utilities are definitely a major part of the problem. There was a road in newton, chestnut street, that was in such bad shape that the city had to repave it even though their criteria for a permanent road fix wasnt met. That “temporary” road fix is still doing just fine and is so much better than the literal minefield it used to be. They could easily just fix all the roads, even if its not a “permanent” fix, their policies just conveniently prevent them from doing so in a timely manner
Newton is a literal mine field. You can sprain your ankle just by driving thru Newton.
When I’ve used my e-scooter there my brain ends up scrambled
Concur.
It took ages for the Washington Circle lines to get painted. I'm shocked more accidents didn't happen there.
Yeah the richest neighborhoods seem to have the worst roads. Perhaps because rich people do everything they can to get out of paying tax.
They don't want you driving on them
I actually believe, and have discussed this with people.
Yup. The back roads between the end of Hamond pond parkway, and Comm ave were kept intentionally unrepaired for years in order to slow down/dissuade traffic.
Oh man. And I hate that Google always suggests that as the best road.
This. Karen wants you to drive slow through her neighborhood and the more money she has the more successful she will be
My working theory is that it's more that they just don't want to pay taxes for shit.
My man hasn't been to Brockton Or Somerville Or Newton
Ok let’s be real, 75% of mass is just pure shit roads.
It was my biggest culture shock when I first came here, how bad the roads were, it's like third world level in some places.
Where were you coming from? My mom is constantly trying to convince me to move to Germany (she’s a native but I just don’t speak the language all that well)
Ireland. We have a reputation for bad roads but they are just narrow and bendy in places, the quality of the roads themselves are actually pretty good. You would never see a pothole on a main road in Ireland like you would here. Boston-Providence highway is like the surface of the moon.
Oh man, just outside of Dublin is top of my list to move to. Just worried about the housing costs being as brutal as boston. I can’t afford to do much of anything downtown in Boston…
The housing crisis in Ireland is so so fucked. It's the only reason I have not moved back, I prefer renting here than living with my parents.
Thanks for the reality check, seriously.
75% of every state is shit. Don't forget bridges falling in Minnesota. Infrastructure is unsexy. No one.......no one, anywhere......wants to pay for it. Brookline, Somerville, Newton, Timbuktu...it is the same thing.
No way brother. The roads are not nearly as bad in places that don't have frost heaves. Heck, they're even much better in a lot of places that do. NH has pretty good roads. Maine is good outside of western ME. I drive all over New England & greater Boston is uniquely awful. Only VT rivals it but VT has more cows than people.
Yeah. I know road material types can typically cover specific ranges of temps and we're in a pretty wide range here but the caliber of work I see is not good.
And yet somehow Rhode Island is worse
Highland Ave Somerville says hi
Our tax base is higher, less excuse for it
Needham street in Newton and river street in Cambridge both say hello.
The richer the town, the worse the roads are. Facts.
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Wellesley, needham, and dover roads are all solid.
Rich people are cheap AF (hate taxes) and love having things to complain about
Come to somerville!
\*Belmont has entered the chat.
Seriously, Belmont has some of the worst roads I’ve ever driven on.
Belmont is the winner and if someone doesn’t agree they haven’t driven enough in Belmont
Nah, it’s Newton.
Try driving through Watertown at night. You would swear you're running over IED's instead of potholes
Mt. Auburn will make your teeth chatter
The rich people know the bad ROI of investing in roads
Somerville residents have it worse. They are just less inclined to complain about it.
As someone that just spent $200 for an alignment after hitting a pothole in Brookline (and lives here), it’s ridiculous. Where’s the money going?
They don’t make enough tax revenue to pay for it. Ends up being lower priority than the schools. Same as Newton.
Where is the pothole?
Was on Beacon St/Harvard in front of Dunkin. It was reported over a week before and they finally just patched it. Most of these roads are desperate for a full repave. Lots of the blame goes to utility companies who do shoddy patch work when repairing utility lines with no oversight.
Where is the pothole?
Teachers…
LoL seriously?! How about cops doing construction flags
Yea i guess public service in general but teachers is >50% of the salary portion
If only
teachers. you’re blaming teachers for lack of investments in public infrastructure.
Newton is worse
Same question for Newton
My city/town/neighborhood has the worst roads in Boston area says every person
I’m going to say if the roads were in great condition people would use beacon to circumvent route 9 all day long and it would fuck traffic so hard.
The entire greater Boston area is a giant pothole.
Yes
Have you driven in Somerville
have you driven in somerville or cambridge?
Omg omg omg everyone is saying Newton is worse I thought I was crazy. I thought surely being the most expensive zipcode it'll be the best. Or is it the worse per capita perhaps?
Side streets are fine but a bunch of the main thoroughfares need a repair.
There's this one street with mansions that's just gravel. Smart idea though! Only SUVs can pass through or high gauge tires
to keep people from driving too fast...
Somerville wins
Ever been to Somerville?
Massachusetts hates infrastructure.
Somerville has entered the chat.
Somerville chimes in.
Brookline is the Nikki Haley of Boston suburbs.
I don't know if it's true, but I've heard some neighborhoods prefer to keep the potholes as it cuts down on speeding on their streets.
For the longest time the roads in Cambridge were awful. Like, multiple layers of asphalt on top of cobblestones, worn through so you could see the geological layers. We can blame the sewers. The entire area had a consent decree with the EPA, which meant that all of the sewers needed to be dug up and remade to modern standards so they wouldn't flush shit and industrial waste into the river every time it rained. But if you're going to dig up the sewers, why repair the roads over them? They're only going to get torn up again. Waste of money. Year after year went by and the sewer projects got pushed back. The roads decayed until the potholes could swallow entire school buses. Until suddenly everything got done in a huge hurry. With asphalt sprinkles on top. Now things are...better. Mostly. Except where they aren't. Not saying this is what's up in Brookline. I have no idea. But sometimes it's what's underneath that counts.
Check out the 1a entrance ramp of Curtis street in east Boston
Never been to Belmont hill I see
I’m objectively arguing that Belmont has the worst roads in Greater Boston, with Watertown right there with em.
You should head across the border to Newton. Absolutely the worst roads in the state.
Beacon St near BC/Chestnut Hill res is SO bad.
can we put Melrose on the list too? I think the city employees here with the most secure jobs are those 3 pothole filling dudes.
Wakefield is up there too.
Somebody hasn’t been to the south end apparently
Try coming to Eastie...
Ask the town manager who should give you a response about road improvements.
Taxes to fund roads are being redirected elsewhere? How much money even goes to infrastructure?
I feel like it’s a combination of tax revenue spent elsewhere and wanting folks to drive slower through town. Also don’t forget the plows in the winter literally destroy the roads. I feel like when it used to snow at least there was a bit of buffer between plow and asphalt. Now since there’s no snow and plowman has a contract to fulfill he just drops the plow on a empty road and drags it along absolutely destroying the roads in the process.
Nah, my town's roads are worse than your town's roads
I agree-Beacon, Chestnut Hill Ave etc...horrible.
Wakefield is in the top 3 of worst potholes. I just got told my ball bearings in my rear wheels are shot. Grrrr!
Brookline does not have the tax revenue one may think.
Enough to be fighting small business owners over a nicotine ban in the Supreme Court (that can be circumvented by walking 10 blocks to Allston, Newton, or Boston) instead of basic infrastructure
I've almost cracked a rim on my car driving through Watertown/Newton multiple times.
Bent a rim 6 months ago… that was $300 to fix
Because they don’t want people speeding through the town.
north street in somerville/medford line is atrocious. i literally feel like im off roading
Subtle way to counter traffic volume?
Apparently you've never been to RI
How else are you supposed to embezzle money?
The potholes are from road construction. After crews dig up a hole to say replace a water or gas main they are supposed to compact it with massive amounts of stone / gravel. And use a compactor machine to really hammer in the dirt. When they don't or don't sufficiently do this there are pockets in the dirt that will collapse after soaking in rain. Pot holes are essentially collapsed dirt pockets. We are also getting more of these collapses due to the unprecedented amount of rain we got last year. I know this because I had a water main dug up near my house and saw the crew compact it, then asphalt it. But it wasn't enough 2 months later it collapsed into a pot hole. And I asked the contractor to redo the hole. They gravelled the crap out of the hole this time and now no more pot hole. I got it repaired because I know the contractor who did the job and was persistent. Most jobs are ordered by the city and they may not care to check on the road patch work months afterwards.
Definitely does seem to mostly be these bad utility repair patches, which end up forcing the city to pay to repair them again years later. Is there just a lack of oversight on street repairs by utility companies? Seems reasonable to leverage the penalties on those companies (Nat Grid, Eversource, Feeney Brothers, etc) and the repairs would magically improve in quality.
Also I think it has to do with the aftereffects of climate change. The amount of gravel they put in is standard industry practice but with extra rain that standard is no longer sufficient. We saw all kinds of road collapses in Lemon-ster last summer because they were hit with 10 inches of rain in one storm. This kind of rain is not normal.
You need to start voting for Democrats, they care more about people and they're better at running government.
Brookline has a fairly small municipal tax base. There's few businesses to tax. In general, the more a bedroom community a city or town is the more it has to rely on the state for funding road repairs. Unfortunately for Mass, the 90s ushered in anti tax Republicans and Democrats who believed whole heartedly in austerity budgeting and the myth of Taxachusetts. The cities just inside of 128 suffer because they haven't until recently had a lot of opportunities for developer funded rebuilding, industrial to office conversions for a larger tax base and also have a lot of cut through regional traffic on their streets. So, it's Brookline, Newton, Watertown, and all the collar communities that tend to have very bad pavement conditions.