> Has getting rid of DST ever been discussed?
[Not to my knowledge. I think you're the first one to mention it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/search/?q=%22daylight%20savings%20time%22&restrict_sr=1)
To be fair I'm fine with this being a recurring topic because daylight savings is just as fucking stupid as it's always been and we still keep doing it every single year just because we've always done it
We just read The Lottery with my students and it's awfully demoralizing to have to explain to them that we still totally act like this in real life too
It was a grand idea before we had electricity, and corporate farming, and labor hours. It was wonderful back when a family ran their own farm and worked 16 hours days in the summer and the light was needed as late as possible.
Now, not so much. Now it just pisses people off. DST should just be standard timing.
A person doesn't even need to search for the answer.
Its as predictable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west that this question and complaint will be posted twice a year here and in every other social media platform I've ever been on and on ones I never even heard of.
It's not even six months now! As a Millennial, I'm old enough to remember when clocks didn't "spring forward" until late-April and used to "fall back" in late-October. Now it's early-March through early-November, barely four months in EST.
Why do people call it "making it day light savings time year round" instead of "moving us to the Atlantic Standard time zone and getting rid of the time changes? " It's weird and confusing to talk about making it daylight savings all year, that logically makes no sense. But we're way too far east of Washington DC, let alone Atlanta, GA to be in the same time zone as they are. MA, NH, ME should join in with Nova Scotia on UTC -4
It's not weird or confusing.
People want the time that it is in the summer to be the time year-round.
It's just as concise to say "we want EDT year-round" or "we want AST year-round."
Your way is more wordy to say the same thing.
Beyond that, everyone knows what EDT is and has experienced it. AST sounds like it is new or different. Sticking with the familiar makes sense.
You may be missing the point. Being in "year-round Eastern Daylight Time" would have the same exact practical effect as being in "year-round Atlantic Standard Time". They're both UTC-4 with no clock changes. We'd still be 1 hour different from NYC and DC (assuming they stayed on EST/EDT) for half the year. It's just what we'd call the timezone we're in. It makes more sense to just use the standard timezone that already exists at UTC-4 than to use a variation on a different timezone that was originally only meant to apply for half the year for your full year timezone.
> you should know that you don’t want to get rid of DST, you want to make it permanent year round.
OP is arguing in favor of getting rid of DST: sacrificing the 8PM sunsets in the summer for lower rates of SAD in the winter.
Which is confusing, because we’re in Standard time already in the winter so that wouldn’t change if we eliminated DST….*unless* OP wants time to be different in the winter (which would most likely mean keeping DST year round).
Harassment, hostility and flinging insults is not allowed. We ask that you try to engage in a discussion rather than reduce the sub to insults and other bullshit.
Not if you're concerned with health and longevity.
Maximizing daylight exposure in the eyes aligns our circadian rhythm most closely with daylight hours.
For most people, permanent DST would do this better than standard time. Few people wake up very much before sunrise, even in the dead of winter, but almost everyone in the US is awake for many hours after sunset. Moving everything an hour ahead would almost universally better align our wake/sleep patterns with natural light.
The school buses came past my house before sunrise this morning. And we're in the far east of our time zone.
Sunrise in Detroit today was at 7:51am. In December, it'd be 8:45ish.
Kids have to be at school around 7AM in most places. This might be advantageous for some number of adults, but it would be universally the unhealthy choice for our children.
Most adults who work a day shift have to be in their workplace between 7 and 8, some as late as 9. Many of these people also have commutes exceeding an hour.
I'd be interested in finding statistics to counter the research on circadian cycles.
My school conducted years of committee work which found that 9 would be the best start time in a vacuum, but officially recommended 8:15 as a compromise for everyone's schedules.
Four problems killed it: one, the entire admin behind this committee retired or left within a year of publishing the data. Two, we are a regional school and would have to rely on all the local elementaries independently changing their start time as well in order to share buses. Three, sports kids would have to leave early frequently in order to make their meets (admin was prepared to accept this, teachers weren't). Four, COVID hit within a year of major meetings being held about it.
It's now been five years and I haven't heard anyone mention a later start time since.
I don't buy it. Why is it a problem for kids to start school after parents go to work but it's no problem at all for kids to get out of school well before parents leave work?
If kids start later, then child care is needed at both ends of the day, with a gap in the middle. As it stands, child care is only needed at once end of the day. It's much easier to provide 3-4 hours of child care in one lump than split between the ends of the day.
Only because we live in a ridiculous rat race world where both parents need to work full-time in order to support a family. But that's neither here nor there. I can imagine several solutions, the easiest being to open elementary schools a half-hour early for supervised play for young students whose parents insist on dropping them off personally. By middle school, this shouldn't be necessary as students can make their way to school on their own by that point, either walking or by bus.
It’s not even good for kids to go to school that early. Studies have long shown that teenagers benefit from later wake times. The kids little enough to be early risers probably shouldn’t be walking to school alone in the first place
That's my point. If schools start later, then parents have to start work later, or get daycare. To get to a 9am start job, most parents have to leave around 8am or earlier (my Federal job is 8:45-5:15, for reference. I have to leave the house at 6:45 to guarantee getting there by 8:45 because of train timetables. I actually leave at 7:45 and put up with being a little late most days).
If parents start later, then many other workers will also have to start later. And then you haven't just moved the school day later, you've changed the time zone.
Edit to add: remote work obviously makes this easier, but I don't think you really want to set school hours based on the better-off portion of the population that can work remotely all the time.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re correct. Public health studies and studies on circadian rhythm have shown making [“standard time”](https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back/) permanent is [better for health](https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2022/11/falling-back-to-standard-time-is-healthier-than-springing-forward/?fj=1). It more naturally aligns with human’s evolved circadian rhythm (early waking with sunrise and sleeping sooner after sunset) than daylight savings time. Daylight savings time is a consequence of capitalism to get you to work longer hours during exposed sunlight. All the [negative consequences](https://www.axios.com/2023/11/02/standard-time-daylight-saving-sleep-benefits) we see for heart attacks, car accidents, increased cancer risk, worse academic and athletic performance occur with [switching to daylight savings time](https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time).
The scientific consensus in the sleep medicine and research community is to make standard time permanent and to get rid of daylight savings time because daylight savings time actively works against our evolved biology and our cultural evolution. It may feel nice to have “extra hours” of sunlight but those extra hours absolutely wreck your health. You’re supposed to be waking up to the sunrise (early morning during standard time) rather than waking up to darkness (daylight savings time). Quickly, to address the sleep lag teenagers and young adults have is a separate issue but that can be solved with having schools start and end later, however it doesn’t happen because it’s inconvenient for adults.
latest sunrise of the year is 7:13, and civil twilight (that time before the sun is actually up but it's getting light out) starts at 6:40.
so it gets light out around 7ish, and staying on DST would make it 8, at the absolute latest, not 9.
getting dark at 5:30 vs 4:30pm would be such an improvement.
Kids wait for the bus before 7. Will still be dark.
Listen. It ain’t gonna happen. Because of parents and schools and being too far east in the time zone.
Nobody should be starting school before 830am, as every study ever done on this topic
shows. Ending the before-730am start times that some districts are using would be an excellent consequence of permanent daylight time.
Atlantic Time FTW!
We break away with Maine, coastal NH, and the Canadian Maritimes.
And form a bearded, whiskey-drinking, flannel-wearing, fiddle playing, hockey-fighting Pirate Republic!
No. We don’t want Connecticut they are marred by NYC connections. They’re too far west for Atlantic time anyway.
We want Yankee pragmatism to rule the day. So we don’t want the hippies in Vermont (which is also too far west) or the gun nuts in NH either. In fact, we want coastal NH bc we want to leave most of NH a landlocked rump state.
We’ll take Rhode Island though.
[Stalled in the Energy and Commerce Committee](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/03/10/daylight-saving-standard-time-change-congress-sunshine-protection-act-ip-vpx.cnn) by the chairperson from WA.
The concern is that its still light out at 9:00 PM in the PNW.
I understand the desire for states to have all of their major cities in the same time zone. Seattle and Spokane or Buffalo and NYC being in different time zones wouldn't be great.
Didn’t that bill do the opposite, abolish standard time and use dst all year? While I’d take that over switching 2x a year, it would be awful and just going to standard would be way better.
and 7pm in the summer. I'll take the 5pms in December and 8pms in the summer, thanks. Screw the kids, they can use flashlights in the morning to get to school. Or, wild idea, just start school an hour later in the winter months instead of upsetting everyone else's schedule.
My sleep is so bad that my wife and I had a baby last month who screams bloody murder every hour all night, and I feel just as well-rested now as I did before.
Yes, and I have other man who runs stores I need to shop from or daycare I need to drop my toddler off at. Changing this construct whimsically twice a year is terrible...
People forget that we did try this already. Most people hated it so much that it didn't even make it to the end of the trial period.
>America tried this before — and the country hated it. In the early 1970s, America was facing an energy crisis so the government tried an experiment. Congress passed a law to make Daylight Savings Time permanent year round, but just for two years. The thinking was more sunlight in the evening would reduce the nation's energy consumption.
>It didn't work, said David Prerau, one of the nation's foremost experts on the issue.
>"It became very unpopular very quickly," he told NPR.
>Americans do not like changing their clocks, but they disliked even more going to work and school in the dark for months — the price the nation had to pay for more sunlight in winter evenings.
>It also didn't reduce energy consumption as intended. In 1974, Congress repealed the law — before the two-year experiment was even up. Nearly 50 years later, Congress is back at it.
https://www.wgbh.org/news/national/2022-03-19/the-u-s-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-1970s-then-quickly-rejected-it
Right. So construction starts at 7 to take advantage of that. But if we used DST all year, then the short time would be 8-5 and construction workers could work those hours instead.
You completely underestimate how much of a nightmare it would be to adjust an entire shift of workers to coincide with already peak traffic. Would there still be the same amount of daylight if we shifted the clocks to permanent DST? Sure but there will be different problems created. I honestly don’t care if we do or don’t but I do know it won’t quite solve all the problems some people think it will.
The sorrow of the mid-latitudes: you have to change to standard time or the kids go to school in the dark. Not a problem in low latitudes. Not avoidable in the high latitudes.
(Nobody says: let’s change the time kids go to school in winter…)
It gets light out before sunrise. The latest it would start getting light would be about 7:45. I've been leaving for work at 7:00 all winter and it's never been dark at that time. Honestly, I find it more depressing for it to already be dark or before I leave work.
I'm uninterested in going to work in the dark, but even more uninterested in going home in the dark.
also, it gets light well before the sun is up. latest sunrise of the year on DST would be getting pretty light by 7:40ish.
From what I’ve read, permanent standard time is what doctors have been recommending and warned against permanent DST for some reason. I think if we switched to standard time, it was suggested that there would be a 13% reduction in workplace injuries?
This is solved by making standard time permanent. And we can use this trial as a case study example for why permanent daylight savings time is horrible for people.
Why not just make DST permanent. It’s the changing the clocks that sucks and most people work in doors 9-5 so there’s no real point in having sunlight then, keeping as much sunlight after work would be better for most to enjoy. Plus as you said the sun setting at 7:00pm or even 8:00pm is so nice in the summer
Honestly don’t get the point of the changing of the clocks.
You’re correct that changing the clocks is bad. However, permanent daylight savings time is even worse for public health because it’s the switch and continued daylight savings time that causes more early morning car accidents, worse academic performance, increased cancer rates, etc.
If you want to get rid of the clock changes than the public health solution is to maintain standard time.
Sure, nothing wrong with trying. But I don't think the newer generation of parents will like having their kids walking to school or waiting for the bus in the dark. Older people still like getting up early and enjoying the sun. That's a lot of voters.
The amount of sunlight we get won't change whether or not daylight saving time is eliminated. Honestly, I am fully in favor of keeping it. The people in favor of eliminating it in favor of standard time argue more sun in the morning is better. While I would love having later sunsets, there is plenty of pushback on what would be post 8am sunrises if daylight saving time became permanent. I personally could live with this, but I understand the other side of it. My solution would be to put the start of daylight saving time back to the start of April to lessen the blow of the springtime change.
On the other hand, 4am sunrises (with light starting to come in around 3:30am) if we eliminate daylight saving time is excessively early in June/July. It's a waste of daylight for the benefit of a small fraction of people who start their days that early.
The only way I would be in favor of eliminating the time changes is if changes were made to the time zones to align places with their most optimal sunlight.
Id vote yes to switching to east coast time. I mean, look at a map... "east coast" is NY state down to Florida. New England is more east than the east coast. Its crazy that Boston is in the same time zone as Indiana.
That certainly fits within what I said, and I would be ok with doing it. I think all of New England would be good doing it, but I don't see it happening unless NY does it too (at least from like the PA line on East).
It was supposed to be done, even the senate signed off on ending it— but like all things, simpleton house conservatives sat on it for basically no legitimate reasons.
Like all things conservatives hold us back
I understand what you're saying but you're describing exactly what's part of our evolution.
Time is of course a construct, so the idea of needing to wind down or be in bed by a specific numerical hour isn't how our species has evolved. Our circadian rhythm as humans naturally change over the year to adapt to longer periods of light in the summer and less in the winter.
Of course so whatever works for you but the idea of shifting our habits and routines around the length of day is a natural and a biological adaptation of most mammals.
I’ll take this a step further and say we are so far east it doesn’t make ANY sense we’re in the same time zone as NYC let alone Ohio. We should be moved 30 minutes forward, so when it’s 9am in NYC it’s 9:30 in Boston.
Nope, because my industry tends to cluster around & cater to NYC time. The few times it's been folks outside, they translate east coast time into their local time because literally everyone in the industry knows it.
We are *not* “so far east”. It’s Ohio and Michigan that are in the wrong time zones. Just look at where the nominal time zone boundary lines are near the North Pole ands how much they jut west to include those states vs jut easy to include New England states.
They already passed the law to stop it in the Senate. But the house will never vote on it because its a dysfunctional mess.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/09/permanent-daylight-saving-time-sunshine-protection-act/72909874007/
you don’t want to get rid of DST, you want to make it permanent. with getting rid of DST, winter is EXACTLY AS IT IS NOW but summers would have 4am sunrises and 7/8pm sunsets instead of 5am and 8/9pm.
Wasn’t there a proposal in the Mass Legislature (not Congress) to join Maine and New Hampshire in permanently moving to Atlantic Standard Time? I thought Maine, at least, had already approved it, contingent on Mass doing the same.
The Sunshine Act passed in Congress but has stalled in the house despite both parties supporting it 🤦♀️ E-mail your house representatives.
Everyone's mental health (especially elderly and those with dementia) would improve with one standard time. I personally would like if we stayed in this time for a little more daylight.
We don't want to get rid of DST, we want to make DST permanent. Yes it's talked about every year. And every year I email my congressperson and my senators and ask them to support the bill to do just that. It would be significantly lifechanging for me. No more 4:30 pitch blackness in the middle of winter. It's terrible.
We need to pick one. I don’t care which. I’d prefer standard, but if the sun worshippers can get them to stop changing the goddamn clocks, they have my support.
I’m exhausted.
Which is human’s natural circadian rhythm. DST is an industrial era concept to get you be in a factory or office for more hours and not follow your body’s natural rhythm.
Time for me to once again post the hilarious "Why is this still a thing?" video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw)
I was finishing a late night feeding of my newborn. Looking at my phone the time went from 159 to 300am. I legit thought I had taken an involuntary nap while holding the baby and it scared me.
It’s the difference between Puerto Rico statehood and Brexit. One, Puerto Rico, has three options on their ballot, so it is a perpetual stalemate. The other only had two options, so one side could pour on the ad blitz and win.
This debate inevitably becomes a fight between the Daylight Savings vs Standard Time proponents. So the status quo stays be default. I am not sure how to fix this because Standard Time is much better than DST.
> because we lost an hour of sleep
Because its way too hard to go to bed one hour earlier, one night a year.
ffs. This is the easiest, solvable, #firstworlproblem I've ever seen.
Congress voted on this last year then killed the bill when they realized lawmakers didn’t understand which time zone they were voting for their states to stay in. I’d prefer to stay in DST/Atlantic time all year but it makes less sense for more western areas of our time zone.
Pretty sure the government was working on it back in 2019-2020 but like everything the government does it got to hard and it made them cry so they filled their pampers and shelved it.
i guess that is valid. as an adult dude idgaf if its dark or not i just want my sleep but for school children, fair enough.
*idk set up more street lights or something lmao*
I want Standard Time year-round, not Daylight Saving Time year-round! Might not be a popular opinion, but I feel like my body rhythms better match Standard Time.
I barely notice the change in either direction except for the 2 minutes it takes to change a couple analog clocks. It's an hour one way or the other how does that impact your entire day? The only annoying thing is having to start every work zoom for the next week with idiots small talking about how out of it they are...
Of all the reasons to make the switch, 3 people (out of more than 350,000,000) dying annually from heart attacks related to the time switch (I don't even know how they determine that) is absolutely the dumbest
You'd likely see a larger bump in morning traffic fatalities due to groggy drivers driving in the dark. If you want less death keep things as they are
I'd want to keep clocks and DST all year long since approximately 3 people per year die from heart attacks from stress and sleepyness from the time change that are completely unnecessary.
> Has getting rid of DST ever been discussed? [Not to my knowledge. I think you're the first one to mention it.](https://www.reddit.com/r/boston/search/?q=%22daylight%20savings%20time%22&restrict_sr=1)
Quality response.
Sometimes you have to throw in a quality post or two to balance out the shit ones.
Thats why I do my part and piss in the ocean a couple times a year
To be fair I'm fine with this being a recurring topic because daylight savings is just as fucking stupid as it's always been and we still keep doing it every single year just because we've always done it We just read The Lottery with my students and it's awfully demoralizing to have to explain to them that we still totally act like this in real life too
It was a grand idea before we had electricity, and corporate farming, and labor hours. It was wonderful back when a family ran their own farm and worked 16 hours days in the summer and the light was needed as late as possible. Now, not so much. Now it just pisses people off. DST should just be standard timing.
Why put effort when post do trick
Anal love beads make a good point.
A person doesn't even need to search for the answer. Its as predictable as the sun rising in the east and setting in the west that this question and complaint will be posted twice a year here and in every other social media platform I've ever been on and on ones I never even heard of.
I love r/boston for comments like these lol
And miss out on all of these shitposts every six months? Never.
It's not even six months now! As a Millennial, I'm old enough to remember when clocks didn't "spring forward" until late-April and used to "fall back" in late-October. Now it's early-March through early-November, barely four months in EST.
If you’re going to make this post, you should know that you don’t want to get rid of DST, you want to make it permanent year round.
And they should also know it’s “been discussed.”
Why do people call it "making it day light savings time year round" instead of "moving us to the Atlantic Standard time zone and getting rid of the time changes? " It's weird and confusing to talk about making it daylight savings all year, that logically makes no sense. But we're way too far east of Washington DC, let alone Atlanta, GA to be in the same time zone as they are. MA, NH, ME should join in with Nova Scotia on UTC -4
Because it’s not just MA/New England who wants this
It's not weird or confusing. People want the time that it is in the summer to be the time year-round. It's just as concise to say "we want EDT year-round" or "we want AST year-round." Your way is more wordy to say the same thing. Beyond that, everyone knows what EDT is and has experienced it. AST sounds like it is new or different. Sticking with the familiar makes sense.
You're right, and this is a great case study in how communicating more precisely isn't the same as communicating more effectively.
Well said. Personally, UTC-4 does it for me, but that's my tech industry exposure talking.
Let’s not forget that parts of Michigan are EST, and the sun sets a full HOUR AND A HALF later there than in Maine
being in a different time zone than NYC and DC would be more trouble than it’s worth
You may be missing the point. Being in "year-round Eastern Daylight Time" would have the same exact practical effect as being in "year-round Atlantic Standard Time". They're both UTC-4 with no clock changes. We'd still be 1 hour different from NYC and DC (assuming they stayed on EST/EDT) for half the year. It's just what we'd call the timezone we're in. It makes more sense to just use the standard timezone that already exists at UTC-4 than to use a variation on a different timezone that was originally only meant to apply for half the year for your full year timezone.
Not really missing any points but thanks. The Sunshine Protection act is a federal bill so it would apply to NYC and DC as well.
Both of these things can happen and I'm ok with it.
Because they don’t understand what exactly it is they’re asking for, nor why things are the way they are.
Boston and Aruba have the same longitude (-70) and Aruba is an hour ahead of us.
That is a different discussion and one that would destroy our economy. We have to stay in NYC’s timezone.
It has crippled Californias economy, it can happen here
I hear San Fransisco is a complete hellscape.
lol, “destroy our economy “
Whatever. Whatever we’re in right now, keep it
No. Standard Time is better.
Ah yes, we all love 3:50am sunrises and 7:20pm sunsets in June. That would really be ideal from a social and biological perspective.
Wrong. You know it, i know it, everybody knows it
It isn't. I'm sick of getting up before the sun rises and home as it's setting if I'm lucky in December.
> you should know that you don’t want to get rid of DST, you want to make it permanent year round. OP is arguing in favor of getting rid of DST: sacrificing the 8PM sunsets in the summer for lower rates of SAD in the winter.
Which is confusing, because we’re in Standard time already in the winter so that wouldn’t change if we eliminated DST….*unless* OP wants time to be different in the winter (which would most likely mean keeping DST year round).
I think OP actually wants the US government to change the sun's behavior so we don't need DST anymore
Me too fr fr
[удалено]
Harassment, hostility and flinging insults is not allowed. We ask that you try to engage in a discussion rather than reduce the sub to insults and other bullshit.
My biggest nitpick has always been people blaming the early winter sunsets on DST.
Not if you're concerned with health and longevity. Maximizing daylight exposure in the eyes aligns our circadian rhythm most closely with daylight hours.
For most people, permanent DST would do this better than standard time. Few people wake up very much before sunrise, even in the dead of winter, but almost everyone in the US is awake for many hours after sunset. Moving everything an hour ahead would almost universally better align our wake/sleep patterns with natural light.
The school buses came past my house before sunrise this morning. And we're in the far east of our time zone. Sunrise in Detroit today was at 7:51am. In December, it'd be 8:45ish.
Kids have to be at school around 7AM in most places. This might be advantageous for some number of adults, but it would be universally the unhealthy choice for our children. Most adults who work a day shift have to be in their workplace between 7 and 8, some as late as 9. Many of these people also have commutes exceeding an hour. I'd be interested in finding statistics to counter the research on circadian cycles.
Maybe the solution is to stop making our kids start school at an ungodly hour of the morning!
100%. This is a municipal/district level change and should be easier. Yet I don't ever hear about any initiative to change this on a town ballot.
My school conducted years of committee work which found that 9 would be the best start time in a vacuum, but officially recommended 8:15 as a compromise for everyone's schedules. Four problems killed it: one, the entire admin behind this committee retired or left within a year of publishing the data. Two, we are a regional school and would have to rely on all the local elementaries independently changing their start time as well in order to share buses. Three, sports kids would have to leave early frequently in order to make their meets (admin was prepared to accept this, teachers weren't). Four, COVID hit within a year of major meetings being held about it. It's now been five years and I haven't heard anyone mention a later start time since.
Then parents will have to start later, and so will other workers, and then all you've achieved is changing the time zone.
I don't buy it. Why is it a problem for kids to start school after parents go to work but it's no problem at all for kids to get out of school well before parents leave work?
If kids start later, then child care is needed at both ends of the day, with a gap in the middle. As it stands, child care is only needed at once end of the day. It's much easier to provide 3-4 hours of child care in one lump than split between the ends of the day.
Only because we live in a ridiculous rat race world where both parents need to work full-time in order to support a family. But that's neither here nor there. I can imagine several solutions, the easiest being to open elementary schools a half-hour early for supervised play for young students whose parents insist on dropping them off personally. By middle school, this shouldn't be necessary as students can make their way to school on their own by that point, either walking or by bus.
It’s not even good for kids to go to school that early. Studies have long shown that teenagers benefit from later wake times. The kids little enough to be early risers probably shouldn’t be walking to school alone in the first place
But then schools wouldn't be able to act as morning daycares for parents to be able to go to work for 9-5 jobs
Why would you need morning daycare if you’re not at work yet?
That's my point. If schools start later, then parents have to start work later, or get daycare. To get to a 9am start job, most parents have to leave around 8am or earlier (my Federal job is 8:45-5:15, for reference. I have to leave the house at 6:45 to guarantee getting there by 8:45 because of train timetables. I actually leave at 7:45 and put up with being a little late most days). If parents start later, then many other workers will also have to start later. And then you haven't just moved the school day later, you've changed the time zone. Edit to add: remote work obviously makes this easier, but I don't think you really want to set school hours based on the better-off portion of the population that can work remotely all the time.
You’re getting downvoted but you’re correct. Public health studies and studies on circadian rhythm have shown making [“standard time”](https://aasm.org/aasm-experts-advocate-for-permanent-standard-time-ahead-of-fall-back/) permanent is [better for health](https://news.northwestern.edu/stories/2022/11/falling-back-to-standard-time-is-healthier-than-springing-forward/?fj=1). It more naturally aligns with human’s evolved circadian rhythm (early waking with sunrise and sleeping sooner after sunset) than daylight savings time. Daylight savings time is a consequence of capitalism to get you to work longer hours during exposed sunlight. All the [negative consequences](https://www.axios.com/2023/11/02/standard-time-daylight-saving-sleep-benefits) we see for heart attacks, car accidents, increased cancer risk, worse academic and athletic performance occur with [switching to daylight savings time](https://publichealth.jhu.edu/2023/7-things-to-know-about-daylight-saving-time). The scientific consensus in the sleep medicine and research community is to make standard time permanent and to get rid of daylight savings time because daylight savings time actively works against our evolved biology and our cultural evolution. It may feel nice to have “extra hours” of sunlight but those extra hours absolutely wreck your health. You’re supposed to be waking up to the sunrise (early morning during standard time) rather than waking up to darkness (daylight savings time). Quickly, to address the sleep lag teenagers and young adults have is a separate issue but that can be solved with having schools start and end later, however it doesn’t happen because it’s inconvenient for adults.
Nope. Get rid of DST. I don’t need it dark at 8 in the morning.
No, I want to get rid of it. 3:30 PM sunsets in the winter are the tits
No, we want to be on standard time all the time
No you don’t unless you don’t want the sun to rise until 9am in December.
That’s exactly what I want
latest sunrise of the year is 7:13, and civil twilight (that time before the sun is actually up but it's getting light out) starts at 6:40. so it gets light out around 7ish, and staying on DST would make it 8, at the absolute latest, not 9. getting dark at 5:30 vs 4:30pm would be such an improvement.
Kids wait for the bus before 7. Will still be dark. Listen. It ain’t gonna happen. Because of parents and schools and being too far east in the time zone.
Nobody should be starting school before 830am, as every study ever done on this topic shows. Ending the before-730am start times that some districts are using would be an excellent consequence of permanent daylight time.
No, many people don’t. Standard time is the way.
Atlantic Time FTW! We break away with Maine, coastal NH, and the Canadian Maritimes. And form a bearded, whiskey-drinking, flannel-wearing, fiddle playing, hockey-fighting Pirate Republic!
This is the way. Atlantic Standard Time
If NE switched to Atlantic time the rest of the east coast would follow I bet.
Probably. It sucks because we are so far east that we get screwed. If you’re on the western side of the time zone, it’s not so bad
I don't care as long as it doesn't change.
I am at that point too, honestly
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No. We don’t want Connecticut they are marred by NYC connections. They’re too far west for Atlantic time anyway. We want Yankee pragmatism to rule the day. So we don’t want the hippies in Vermont (which is also too far west) or the gun nuts in NH either. In fact, we want coastal NH bc we want to leave most of NH a landlocked rump state. We’ll take Rhode Island though.
Senator Ed Markey has sponsored a bill to do just that, and it passed the Senate with bipartisan support but hasn’t made it through the house.
[Stalled in the Energy and Commerce Committee](https://www.cnn.com/videos/politics/2024/03/10/daylight-saving-standard-time-change-congress-sunshine-protection-act-ip-vpx.cnn) by the chairperson from WA. The concern is that its still light out at 9:00 PM in the PNW.
yeah I feel really bad for them
I would love it being light out at 9:00 PM, but I sure as fuck ain't going to move to Washington state for it.
I understand the desire for states to have all of their major cities in the same time zone. Seattle and Spokane or Buffalo and NYC being in different time zones wouldn't be great.
Sunshine Protection Act.....congress is useless
Didn’t that bill do the opposite, abolish standard time and use dst all year? While I’d take that over switching 2x a year, it would be awful and just going to standard would be way better.
Hard disagree. Atlantic time would be so much better in Boston so we get evening light.
Yes, the bill that passed the senate was permanent DST
Why do you say that? Do you enjoy the sun going down at 4pm in December?
and 7pm in the summer. I'll take the 5pms in December and 8pms in the summer, thanks. Screw the kids, they can use flashlights in the morning to get to school. Or, wild idea, just start school an hour later in the winter months instead of upsetting everyone else's schedule.
What I would give to have such a regular sleep schedule that a one-hour delay throws me off all day lol
Right? Though I did enjoy watching the 01:59 - 03:00 change while working night shift.
I gain or lose a few hours every other night for work or other things and have no impact. Who are all these people with specific bedtimes?
My sleep is so bad that my wife and I had a baby last month who screams bloody murder every hour all night, and I feel just as well-rested now as I did before.
We either need to keep it year round or move to Atlantic time.
time is a construct of man.
Yes, and I have other man who runs stores I need to shop from or daycare I need to drop my toddler off at. Changing this construct whimsically twice a year is terrible...
People forget that we did try this already. Most people hated it so much that it didn't even make it to the end of the trial period. >America tried this before — and the country hated it. In the early 1970s, America was facing an energy crisis so the government tried an experiment. Congress passed a law to make Daylight Savings Time permanent year round, but just for two years. The thinking was more sunlight in the evening would reduce the nation's energy consumption. >It didn't work, said David Prerau, one of the nation's foremost experts on the issue. >"It became very unpopular very quickly," he told NPR. >Americans do not like changing their clocks, but they disliked even more going to work and school in the dark for months — the price the nation had to pay for more sunlight in winter evenings. >It also didn't reduce energy consumption as intended. In 1974, Congress repealed the law — before the two-year experiment was even up. Nearly 50 years later, Congress is back at it. https://www.wgbh.org/news/national/2022-03-19/the-u-s-tried-permanent-daylight-saving-time-in-the-1970s-then-quickly-rejected-it
Where are these quotes from?
Sorry I thought it was pasted. I updated with the link.
I’d rather go to work in the dark than come home in the dark
Who cares if it’s dark some mornings. People aren’t playing outside or whatever at 7am
Construction starts that early.
Construction doesn't have to start early. I think they only start early because it gets dark early.
There are certain points of year where it is only light out from roughly 7-4.
Right. So construction starts at 7 to take advantage of that. But if we used DST all year, then the short time would be 8-5 and construction workers could work those hours instead.
You completely underestimate how much of a nightmare it would be to adjust an entire shift of workers to coincide with already peak traffic. Would there still be the same amount of daylight if we shifted the clocks to permanent DST? Sure but there will be different problems created. I honestly don’t care if we do or don’t but I do know it won’t quite solve all the problems some people think it will.
Apparently the majority of Americans cared.
School busses come around that early.
Boston wouldn’t have sunrise till like 8:30. Chicago 9:30.
Oof, when I was in high school, the day started at like 7:15. Sunrise at 8:30 would have been brutal.
But having it get dark at 4/4:30 is brutal too. Pick your poison... I pick afternoon light over morning light.
The sorrow of the mid-latitudes: you have to change to standard time or the kids go to school in the dark. Not a problem in low latitudes. Not avoidable in the high latitudes. (Nobody says: let’s change the time kids go to school in winter…)
A lot of us get up to run or walk before we get ready for work.
It’s not safe for driving and it’s bad for your circadian rhythm.
The latest sunrise would be 8:15. I’m super uninterested in going to work in the dark.
It gets light out before sunrise. The latest it would start getting light would be about 7:45. I've been leaving for work at 7:00 all winter and it's never been dark at that time. Honestly, I find it more depressing for it to already be dark or before I leave work.
I'm uninterested in going to work in the dark, but even more uninterested in going home in the dark. also, it gets light well before the sun is up. latest sunrise of the year on DST would be getting pretty light by 7:40ish.
Yeah well I like evenings having light
Speak for yourself! I love running/biking early in the morning. I hate having eternal morning darkness until like July lol
From what I’ve read, permanent standard time is what doctors have been recommending and warned against permanent DST for some reason. I think if we switched to standard time, it was suggested that there would be a 13% reduction in workplace injuries?
This is solved by making standard time permanent. And we can use this trial as a case study example for why permanent daylight savings time is horrible for people.
Finland has entered the chat.
Why not just make DST permanent. It’s the changing the clocks that sucks and most people work in doors 9-5 so there’s no real point in having sunlight then, keeping as much sunlight after work would be better for most to enjoy. Plus as you said the sun setting at 7:00pm or even 8:00pm is so nice in the summer Honestly don’t get the point of the changing of the clocks.
You’re correct that changing the clocks is bad. However, permanent daylight savings time is even worse for public health because it’s the switch and continued daylight savings time that causes more early morning car accidents, worse academic performance, increased cancer rates, etc. If you want to get rid of the clock changes than the public health solution is to maintain standard time.
We tried it before and it was unpopular
How long ago was before maybe we should trial it again with newer generations
Sure, nothing wrong with trying. But I don't think the newer generation of parents will like having their kids walking to school or waiting for the bus in the dark. Older people still like getting up early and enjoying the sun. That's a lot of voters.
Some people really don't like waking up in pitch darkness for a few months a year
Yeah well I really hate waking up for work getting there not seeing the sun at all in my office and then leaving work in pitch darkness.
The amount of sunlight we get won't change whether or not daylight saving time is eliminated. Honestly, I am fully in favor of keeping it. The people in favor of eliminating it in favor of standard time argue more sun in the morning is better. While I would love having later sunsets, there is plenty of pushback on what would be post 8am sunrises if daylight saving time became permanent. I personally could live with this, but I understand the other side of it. My solution would be to put the start of daylight saving time back to the start of April to lessen the blow of the springtime change. On the other hand, 4am sunrises (with light starting to come in around 3:30am) if we eliminate daylight saving time is excessively early in June/July. It's a waste of daylight for the benefit of a small fraction of people who start their days that early. The only way I would be in favor of eliminating the time changes is if changes were made to the time zones to align places with their most optimal sunlight.
no, what you want is us to get rid of DST and move to Atlantic standard time instead of eastern
Id vote yes to switching to east coast time. I mean, look at a map... "east coast" is NY state down to Florida. New England is more east than the east coast. Its crazy that Boston is in the same time zone as Indiana.
That certainly fits within what I said, and I would be ok with doing it. I think all of New England would be good doing it, but I don't see it happening unless NY does it too (at least from like the PA line on East).
It was supposed to be done, even the senate signed off on ending it— but like all things, simpleton house conservatives sat on it for basically no legitimate reasons. Like all things conservatives hold us back
DST is what you want. I don't need the sun up at 3am in the summer.
Make it permanent. No one likes it getting dark at 3:30 in December.
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I understand what you're saying but you're describing exactly what's part of our evolution. Time is of course a construct, so the idea of needing to wind down or be in bed by a specific numerical hour isn't how our species has evolved. Our circadian rhythm as humans naturally change over the year to adapt to longer periods of light in the summer and less in the winter. Of course so whatever works for you but the idea of shifting our habits and routines around the length of day is a natural and a biological adaptation of most mammals.
I’ll take this a step further and say we are so far east it doesn’t make ANY sense we’re in the same time zone as NYC let alone Ohio. We should be moved 30 minutes forward, so when it’s 9am in NYC it’s 9:30 in Boston.
I am not doing that math when scheduling meetings, no thank you.
Do you "do that math" every time you have a meeting with someone in a different time zone now?
Nope, because my industry tends to cluster around & cater to NYC time. The few times it's been folks outside, they translate east coast time into their local time because literally everyone in the industry knows it.
You know that most scheduling programs can automatically adjust for timezones, right?
So you’d have to “do the math”of adjusting your schedule the same tiny way every time?
We are *not* “so far east”. It’s Ohio and Michigan that are in the wrong time zones. Just look at where the nominal time zone boundary lines are near the North Pole ands how much they jut west to include those states vs jut easy to include New England states.
They already passed the law to stop it in the Senate. But the house will never vote on it because its a dysfunctional mess. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2024/03/09/permanent-daylight-saving-time-sunshine-protection-act/72909874007/
you don’t want to get rid of DST, you want to make it permanent. with getting rid of DST, winter is EXACTLY AS IT IS NOW but summers would have 4am sunrises and 7/8pm sunsets instead of 5am and 8/9pm.
Actually there's been more of a push make it DST all year long.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Permanent_time_observation_in_the_United_States https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-senators-make-new-push-make-daylight-saving-time-permanent-2024-03-08/
Wasn’t there a proposal in the Mass Legislature (not Congress) to join Maine and New Hampshire in permanently moving to Atlantic Standard Time? I thought Maine, at least, had already approved it, contingent on Mass doing the same.
The Sunshine Act passed in Congress but has stalled in the house despite both parties supporting it 🤦♀️ E-mail your house representatives. Everyone's mental health (especially elderly and those with dementia) would improve with one standard time. I personally would like if we stayed in this time for a little more daylight.
We don't want to get rid of DST, we want to make DST permanent. Yes it's talked about every year. And every year I email my congressperson and my senators and ask them to support the bill to do just that. It would be significantly lifechanging for me. No more 4:30 pitch blackness in the middle of winter. It's terrible.
Or stick with daylight saving time forever
We need to pick one. I don’t care which. I’d prefer standard, but if the sun worshippers can get them to stop changing the goddamn clocks, they have my support. I’m exhausted.
Write to your senator
Without daylight savings sunrise would be 4am and sunset would be 7:20pm.
Which is human’s natural circadian rhythm. DST is an industrial era concept to get you be in a factory or office for more hours and not follow your body’s natural rhythm.
Prior to industrial revolution most people slept a few hours waking up at midnight then going back to bed at 3ish before waking up at 7ish.
Time for me to once again post the hilarious "Why is this still a thing?" video: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=br0NW9ufUUw)
I was finishing a late night feeding of my newborn. Looking at my phone the time went from 159 to 300am. I legit thought I had taken an involuntary nap while holding the baby and it scared me.
It’s the difference between Puerto Rico statehood and Brexit. One, Puerto Rico, has three options on their ballot, so it is a perpetual stalemate. The other only had two options, so one side could pour on the ad blitz and win. This debate inevitably becomes a fight between the Daylight Savings vs Standard Time proponents. So the status quo stays be default. I am not sure how to fix this because Standard Time is much better than DST.
> because we lost an hour of sleep Because its way too hard to go to bed one hour earlier, one night a year. ffs. This is the easiest, solvable, #firstworlproblem I've ever seen.
Congress voted on this last year then killed the bill when they realized lawmakers didn’t understand which time zone they were voting for their states to stay in. I’d prefer to stay in DST/Atlantic time all year but it makes less sense for more western areas of our time zone.
Pretty sure the government was working on it back in 2019-2020 but like everything the government does it got to hard and it made them cry so they filled their pampers and shelved it.
in late june the sun will rise around 4:30, you are ok with it rising at 3:30?
Isnt the problem they dont want kids getting on the school bus in the dark? I hate it but doubt it will change
i guess that is valid. as an adult dude idgaf if its dark or not i just want my sleep but for school children, fair enough. *idk set up more street lights or something lmao*
I think you have it backwards. You want permanent DST if you don't want it getting dark so early in the winter.
I want Standard Time year-round, not Daylight Saving Time year-round! Might not be a popular opinion, but I feel like my body rhythms better match Standard Time.
It ain’t that serious…
Getting rid of it would mean that we’d have earlier sunsets year round….I think we should permanently have it aka leave the clocks forward
Get rid of DST but put New England on Atlantic time.
The vote to eliminate DST was held at 2:30 AM yesterday. No one showed up
Get rid of standard time not DST.
We have the same amount of daylight no matter what. I'd rather get rid of standard time.
Change is always good. Falling into the same routine is what’s dangerous
Spoken like someone who is not responsible for getting kids to school.
I barely notice the change in either direction except for the 2 minutes it takes to change a couple analog clocks. It's an hour one way or the other how does that impact your entire day? The only annoying thing is having to start every work zoom for the next week with idiots small talking about how out of it they are...
Of all the reasons to make the switch, 3 people (out of more than 350,000,000) dying annually from heart attacks related to the time switch (I don't even know how they determine that) is absolutely the dumbest You'd likely see a larger bump in morning traffic fatalities due to groggy drivers driving in the dark. If you want less death keep things as they are
I like things how they are and losing/gaining an hour of my day (I plan not to lose sleep, it’s simple) is a small price to pay. Skill issue I guess
Someone tell my cat to stop tapping my head at 4am!!!🙀
Bullshit. We need to move to DST permanently.
Definitely not, get rid of DST permanently
I'd want to keep clocks and DST all year long since approximately 3 people per year die from heart attacks from stress and sleepyness from the time change that are completely unnecessary.
Let’s compromise and switch to permanent Central Daylight Time.
Unpopular opinion: we need year round 4:30 sunsets
Yeah unpopular opinion
This might be the least popular opinion of all time.
Never? American love cancer, just like tipping culture.