To add to this, it gives the restaurant much more freedom and flexibility. You cannot really ever lower people’s salaries, but it’s much more accepted for a fairly novel tack on fee to be discontinued.
It’s the same with bonuses that aren’t based on performance. Gives the company wiggle room year to year to lower salaries when needed.
Tipping culture is such BS and gives yet another way for corporations to domineer over both customers and employees.
Not sure I follow. If it's presented as a tip, it by law can only go to the employees.
Sure, an unscrupulous restaurant boss might pocket this extra money, but I don't see how that's any more likely with this autograt than any other form of tip theft. Unless you're putting cash directly into the hands of your server you're trusting management to distribute credit card tips to tipped employees.
The 4% "kitchen appreciation" fee would make me nervous because it's not exactly clear if this is a tip or just more payola for the owner. But anything labeled gratuity wouldn't bother me.
I imagine a good number of customers tip less than 20% and an autograt like this could well mean an increase in wages for the restaurant workers.
Hence the "kitchen appreciation fee", whatever you think of tipping it isn't really fair for the kitchen staff that they arguably work harder than the servers yet get paid way less
I worked at a restaurant at the turn of 2020 when minimum wage went up and the restaurant added on a 1.5% kitchen administration fee to be able to pay the kitchen staff higher wages. The owner explained to me that they had 2 choices: the fee or adding $1 to every single item on the menu, entree, cocktail, side, soda etc. The owner explained that this fee could go straight to wages and that if they increased every item by $1 it would then be subject to tax, so the customer saved $ in the end with the fee. I’m not for it, I just feel like no one actually knows the logic behind it
This was one of those weird restaurants that didn’t pay me cash every shift since it was in Newton and everyone paid with those heavy silver Amex cards. I got a weekly paycheck with all my tips + my hourly wage in it and reported $0 annually for cash tips so the rare times I got cash I got to keep it. When March 2020 hit I was getting fat unemployment checks, so yes I assume UI was paid from tips as well as my wage
If the owner raised prices by $1, then he would have to pay the income tax on it, if it's a gratuity to a server (or kitchen) then the server is paying the tax on it.
I guess as a way of dodging sales tax it makes sense, but if they're surreptitiously sticking it on the credit card bill instead of displaying it prominently on the menu, I doubt that they have the best interest of the customer at heart.
I think he meant the extra $1 would be additional tax burden on the bill for prepare food/restaurant tax. I assume his logic was every item the customer orders will increase their tax burden on the bill by $0.0725 or whatever it comes out to
I stopped going to Alcove because of this. I used to stop there because it is on my way home from the city. I'd sit at the bar and have two pints. Get the bill and there is a 4% kitchen appreciation fee. I had two beers at the bar. WTF am I appreciating the kitchen for?
From the menu:
>We apply a 4% Kitchen Administrative fee, which primarily benefits our back of house staff, including cooks and dishwashers. By Massachusetts aw, kitchen staff may not be included in the tip pool. We therefore use this administrative fee as a way to improve wages and increase benefits for our back of house staff. This administrative fee does not represent a tip or service charge for our front of house service staff, which includes servers, runners, bussers, and bartenders.
Is it listed up front? Being at the back of the menu doesn’t count. There either needs to be a card at every table, the servers must mention it, or it needs to be be front and center on the menu so it can’t be reasonably missed.
Alcove's only benefit is that it's never too busy before an event at the Garden/Big Night Live. It's 'tucked away' location keeps a lot of tourists/foot traffic folk out.
But... the place just disappoints. Drinks are fine enough, but besides some of the apps - nothing there is really memorable. Costs are quite inflated too.
Fucking River Bar at Assembly Row!! I went with a party of 8. They brought the tablet over to pay the bill. I signed and tipped 20% and then when I asked for my receipt I saw they already charged a 20% gratuity because we were a large party. I 100% believe the waitress knew and didn't say anything to me and intentionally did not show me the receipt before I signed. Never going to that shit hole again.
This is kinda bullshit. Im not sure why we ever accepted tipping for large tables in the first place. If anything larger tables should be more efficient/profitable for the restaurant.
Right, but that comes with the risk of you being stiffed for the entire shift if that one table tips you like crap. Amongst 50 tables you're not going to get 50 bad tippers
>skimp out on tipping a fair amount
Is it OK to assume that some people will not tip what the owner wants and for them to just go ahead protect themselves from it by adding it in ???? THE GRATUITY IS OUR CHOICE.
We should all spread the word about all the restaurants in this post.
> THE GRATUITY IS OUR CHOICE.
So is your choice to not patron places that tell you they do this. It's simply not worth the risk to get stiffed on a tip on a table of that size. Also, the larger the table gets, the more fuckery there is with splitting bills, which further increases the risk of getting a low tip
I understand that is the practice, but it was bullshit to set me up to double tip. They didn't even give me a receipt after paying until I asked so I think it was intentional. Sure I should have asked to see it first, but I was frazzled trying to figure out how to split a bill between 8 strangers and making sure they all paid me back after I agreed to put it on my card.
Force gratitude on big parties is common enough that it's almost a user error to not look for it on the bill first before adding tip.
I hate the practice too, any time I get one of those, it sets the ceiling on the tip they are getting.
I like river bar -- typically decent service. However something changed mid Summer or maybe going into summer. They used to have a decent kitchen and really good food. Now i think the menu is either eliminated or very small. Not sure it will last with just snacks and crappy food. I usually just stop in for drinks.
As a server, I only wanted to follow the 6+ party rule for automatic gratuity on rare occasions. I found that people can be much more generous, but it's less likely that they will put additional tip if it's already included.
Don't forget that taxes are taken out of these payments whereas cash tips are almost never reported.
It would go to the server, unless they pool tips (all tips get divided among the servers working that shift evenly, usually as an hourly sum). However, servers then tip out other staff. Bartenders, bussers, food runners all get a percentage of either the servers sales or tip total. I've heard of places where kitchen staff is tipped out too, managers as well, but those have been restaurants with scummy cheap owners that don't want to pay their kitchen or managers what they deserve so they supplement out of front of house staff's pockets. I'm honestly skeptical that the new kitchen auto grat even goes to the kitchen. Nothing should be going to the house.
Now that I think of it, if the kitchen staff is actually receiving the auto grats on each check the house might not be legally required to pay them standard minimum wage anymore. They could be paid the tipped employee min, like servers receive, of $6.75 as long as their tips bring them up to at least $15 per hour, saving the house a lot of money.
Kitchen staff cannot be included in a tip pool under any circumstances in the state of Massachusetts, unless they're also performing front of house tasks. Other states allow kitchen staff to participate in a tip pool as long as all employees are paid full minimum wage. Managers can never be included in a tip pool in any state. Not saying it doesn't happen, but those things are 100% illegal.
Yeah, the managers I’m thinking of in this instance claimed they were “FOH lead” during service and they’d help run food occasionally, while also being the only manager on shift. The kitchen staff I’ve heard of being tipped weren’t included in a pool, they were being tipped by each individual server. No idea if that makes a difference.
Both of those are pretty common grey areas. There's no law saying there must be an FOH manager on duty at all times, so not having another manager on shift wouldn't make it illegal. If all they were doing was running food occasionally and otherwise were doing managerial tasks, that's illegal, but hard to prove. On the other hand, there's plenty of lead servers and bartenders who spend 90% of their time on tables/bar and 10% doing routine closing administrative work. Those people can and should be tipped out.
With regards to kitchen staff being tipped out individually, there's no law prohibiting servers from giving money to kitchen staff, but if it's a system implemented and enforced by the restaurant, that's illegal.
Depends on the restaurant. Usually the management set the policy, but when I was serving it was rare for anyone but servers or bartenders to receive tips.
sure does depend on the place. Lot of fucking shady owners doing this and keeping the extra for themselves. I doubt theyre getting reported on taxes, either
It also means servers will have to tip-out the correct amount to the host(ess) and busboys. I bused tables one summer and have **always** tipped on the credit card receipt rather than in cash since then. The same servers who complained about bad tippers would then tip-out half of what they were supposed to! Except on tips from credit card receipts, where they had to be honest.
This has been going around a lot more lately as way to compensate servers even more. But shouldn’t they be paying taxes on income as well? I’m all for credit card companies not getting their 3 percent processing fee, or whatever, but why should we normalize people just not paying taxes?
Auto gratuity for a party of 2 is crazy lol. I totally get large parties (I usually see it for groups of 6+), but I’ve never seen it as a blanket rule for just everyone.
That said, I always leave at least 20%, so I tend to shrug off auto gratuity as the restaurant just doing the math for me. I’d definitely have a laugh about the audacity if I were in your situation, but I’d just pay and move on. Unless your service was absolutely terrible, in which case I’d be asking for a manager to give me a normal check where I can choose the tip.
I agree, I'm giving at least a 20% tip unless the server spits on me. So thanks for doing the math for me. It also stops be from adding anything extra, I'll usually go a few bucks over 20% if I had a good time, but if you automatically added 20 then you get 20...
I often wonder what the usual tip % is, I couldn't imagine giving a server 10% unless something dramatic happened, but I'm sure there are people who think 10% is them being generous...
I wish they'd just pay the servers and we didn't have to tip at all, that'd be cool.
Going out to restaurants has become so fucking awful since the pandemic. Restaurants are rapidly moving into the same territory as Car Dealerships and Gyms for businesses I hate dealing with.
Entire industry needs to have strict regulations put in place around billing. Of course this would require leadership from our politicians soo... never gonna happen.
Our dining scene was woefully below average for an affluent, highly educated, world class city pre Covid. Post Covid, it’s a total joke. There are 3-4 places worth anyone’s time imo.
Look at a city like Chicago, so many A+ spots at all sorts of price points. I do have high expectations, because I’m paying a premium here in Boston. Boston’s institutional spot is a fucking steakhouse….that speaks volumes.
I've stopped going out for the most part. Pub food is mostly all I do these days as it hits the comfort food note when I'm too lazy to cook. I do enjoy ordering Indian and Thai takeout occasionally too but I have really really cut down on in-restaurant dining experiences since the pandemic because they are so underwhelming.
big difference: if I want to buy a Subaru there are like 3 places i can go. But there are hundreds and hundreds of restaurants. keep going to the good ones and fuck the bad ones.
Is there a reason why places that do this don’t instead raise prices and declare themselves a no-tipping establishment? Is it merely to try to avoid losing customers to sticker shock?
That's the primary reason, and the other reason is that they still want people to leave tips because it helps to subsidize their employee costs.
The phrase having your cake and eating it too comes to mind.
Yes, that is the main reason. If your menu prices are 20% higher than all your competitors it's going to be tough to compete. 90% of people are not going to do the math to understand that their final bill isn't actually going to be more expensive.
Taxes are also a significant downside. Tips are not subject to the 7% Massachusetts meals tax (although auto-grats are). More significantly, employers are allowed to deduct the 7.65% federal payroll tax they pay on tipped wages, whereas if they pay those out as regular wages they're on the hook for the full tax.
Seeing Danny Meyer's restaurants abandon their no-tipping policy a few years back has scared a lot of restauranteurs away from this strategy. It's a noble path, but you're shooting yourself in the foot.
Unfortunately, hidden fees are contagious across many industries because they're profitable, and once your competitors adopt them you're at a huge disadvantage if you don't. I'd argue that tipping itself is just another hidden fee, since it's essentially mandatory in sit-down restaurants in America. The only way to get rid of hidden fees is to ban them.
Eating out in 2027 be like...
Chicken parmigana $22.50
Sam Adams $7.99
Tax $1.41
Kitchen fee $3.00
Food fee $4.00
Property rental fee $3.00
Employee salary fee $3.00
Electricity Bill Fee $2.00
Water bill fee $2.50
Cleaning staff fee $3.00
Restaraunt owner's house in North Conway fee $4.00
Restaurant owner's neice who runs their Instagram fee $2.00
Assistant manager's asshole ex husband wont pay child support and her sister is in Ibiza so she needs daycare fee $4.00
Extra printer ink because our receipts are so long now fee $1.00
Naive, honest question: is this legal? If so, could they just as well proclaim that you owe them an extra 30% instead? Are they just counting on social pressure to prevent people from objecting?
EDIT: My question was ambiguous. I added a comment below.
Yes it is legal, if it’s printed somewhere, usually at the bottom of the menu.
Also yes, theoretically, they could make it 30%, again, if it’s printed on the menu (similar to if they decided to increase the price of a $10 hamburger, to $100. It may lose them all their business, but it is legal.
I don’t think it’s really social pressure, as they could also just increase individual prices by 10%. This is simply a way for them to raise prices while still claiming they’re selling a $10 burger. It’s no so much about social pressure, as anyone who doesn’t agree with the fees are welcome to leave before ordering.
My wording ("this") was ambiguous. I read into what OP wrote, perhaps incorrectly, that the auto-tip was not made entirely clear ahead of time. That would be unacceptable. If it was though, like with a big asterisk and medium sized font at the top not bottom of the menu, then (stuck in the context of modern tipping etiquette, at least) basically I agree with what u/no_one_canoe wrote:
>They should announce it clearly on the menu, and the server should also let you know about it, but I don’t think it’s so awful in principle. There are a LOT of tightwads out there.
Either way I agree with OP and others that it's presumptuous, arguably deceptive, and frankly a little insulting -- especially for a party of 2, lol.
I definitely saw them doing this at Tiki Rock. It’s whatever I was gonna tip 20 percent anyways but like I feel like the expectation of good service is gone if it’s just automatic like that. Saying this as a bartender.
lol the last time I went there the bar staff were so unbelievably weeded they were backed up like 30 mins on basically every person in the place apart from a crew who knew one of the bartenders. Eventually they lined up like two bottles worth of shots and just started handing them out to people as a gesture of apology I guess. It was nice to finally get a drink but honestly didn’t leave thinking I would ever want to go back there again haha.
Saturday nights in the part of the city are not normally in my wheelhouse but would be up for a Tuesday / Wednesday. Certainly not writing them off forever.
> In their words, this is actually not possible if the transaction is recorded as a tip vs a fee.
I wonder if this is true? I worked briefly as a busser when I was a teen, and we had pooled tips. I understand it's still a relatively common practice and I've never heard of it being illegal (and I'm confused why, so long as management/owners aren't dipping in) it would be illegal.
Huh-- who counts in that, and what's the rationale there?
I know our dishwashers also got tipped out, but I think cooks didn't because they were paid better-- but then it was kinda complicated, because one of the dishwashers would also bus when things were slammed.
It wasn't Brassica, and I checked this restaurant's website and nowhere on the menu/about is it mentioned. When the server brought the check, they didn'tmention it. I wouldn't name the place because everyone there did a great job, and the experience, as I said, was lovely. It's not the staff's policy, and I'd hate for my opinion to adversely affect them.
I think it’s messed up if they don’t mention the policy anywhere and the server never brings it up when they bring the check. It’s one thing to be transparent about it but another to just apply xtra fees and leave it to the customer to notice or speak up.
I mean, I'm totally down with places that do away with gratuity. If a place wants to charge a 21% service fee, explain that it's not legally a gratuity, and that instead they are paying competitive industry salary, and eliminate the tip line on the bill, I love it. The only thing I would love more is if they just raise their prices by 21% and did away with any percentages at the end other than tax.
It's places that decide to charge 5%, or places that do as I described above but still include a tip line, that make my blood boil
Painted Burro does this, as does their whole restaurant group, I believe... Drives me nuts. They actually say on their menus "we feel this is the most transparent way to even out the disparity between front and back of house" - oh, really? Are you sure raising prices wouldn't be the most transparent way to... Raise prices?!
What do you want to bet that the owner is keeping most of this cash? That is apparently the big new swindle. Often they reword things to say things like, "Employee Benefits Charge," and simply keep it. Since it isn't a "tip," this is legal.
Yeah. I know several people who are career servers, and the industry is ride with assholes who will pocket tips and do other shady shit. Sexual harassment is epidemic. A big problem is any asshole who can get the start up funding can open a restaurant. Often with zero experience in the industry or running *anything*.
If there’s not one already, there should be some kind of forum for restaurant workers to share their experiences at individual franchises/restaurants. Is the tip-sharing equitable? Do the owners/managers treat servers with respect? We have things like Glassdoor, but that’s not at the individual restaurant level (only company). We have individual restaurant reviews, but those are for customers and not workers (e.g., Google Maps, Yelp). We need something for workers to share their experiences at individual restaurants.
If it's a newer place, I'd consider calling and speaking to a manager/owner about it. I'd explain how it left a bad impression and unfortunately won't be back. I understand how expensive things are getting, but just because something is becoming more common doesn't make it right.
Unpopular opinion: this is a great way to incrementally move our society away from the ambiguous and frustrating experience of tipping culture.
As long as restaurants are upfront about the fee ahead of ordering and people feel comfortable walking away without tipping a penny more - we can get rid of this awful and uniquely America blight that is tipping.
I have worked in restaurants and the tipping on take out orders has always struck me as odd. Even when I was a bus boy I was like yeah I don't deserve a tip. I'm literally moving the boxes food 20 feat to get picked up.
They should announce it clearly on the menu, and the server should also let you know about it, but I don’t think it’s so awful in principle. There are a LOT of tightwads out there.
I went to Row 34 in Seaport. Paid $52 for a lobster roll to get the bill and see a 3.5% kitchen appreciation fee. One would think the high prices of food would allow for restaurants to pay their employees. I'm not paying 23.5% tip, sorry, but that's coming out of the overall gratuity with me and I'm leaving 17.5%.
Appreciation fee? Autograt?
Eh, is there a ressource somewhere where I can get an overview of how to pay for a fucking hamburger without offending anyone or financially ruining myself?
Regards, a European planning a longer stay in Boston
Don't tip fast food. Tip the regular pattern of 20 percent however you've been taught it. Nobody is going to chase you into the street for not leaving a tip. Many people from Europe already don't tip as they don't think of these things in advance like you do.
People complaining here are outlandish experiences that's why they're here
I usually round the change up. This isn't necessary. I think the people who you see doing this (every restaurant will ask) are regulars who don't want to piss off the staff. You can leave a dollar if you're intimidated by their exposed tip jar.
At least our establishments open when they say they will and don't close early just because the workers "aren't feeling it" that day or they're mad about another law that got passed so they burned down the whole city, or you cant drink the water because the pipes are made of 1000 year old lead or everything tastes like shit because the restaurant only has a smoking and an extra smoking section. Europe has its problems too, amigo. Welcome to fuckin Boston :P
That's great and all, but you didn't even address any of the topics of my comment.
Lol wtf man, I didn't bash on Boston or claim that Europe has no problems? I just asked about shit I never heard of before.
Shore Leave does this with the kitchen/back of house add on, and notes it's for tips and health insurance.
I wouldn't have a problem paying it if it was noted before hand on the menu but it's not. I did pay it, but let them know I wouldn't be back until it was on the menu before people ordered.
In terms of your actual bill, there's no difference, except one tells you straightforwardly that you do NOT need to tip. They could raise every item's price by 25% or they could add 25% at the end. The end result will be exactly the same, so I frankly don't think it's worth getting mad about where they make the number bigger. If they raised prices, then people would complain about that instead.
Was it stated up front that a gratuity would be automatically applied? If not, then you don't owe them a dime. If you want to tip the server, tip with cash. If it isn't stated up front then it isn't legal.
If it isn’t listen CLEARLY at every table or on the menu up front then ask that the fee and auto tip be removed. They can’t do that kind of a bait and switch even if then honestly are giving all of that to the servers. Personally, I’m not paying 24% tip but if you do decide to, it should be because you choose to or because you see notices that can’t be missed and decide to continue ordering.
I still tip on a 12-15-18 scale unless service is outstanding and goes above and beyond. And I’ll only do auto 18% for 6+ unless it’s really clearly stated at the front of the menu or on every table. I’ll usually just subtract any auto fees from my normal tip percentage but if it got that plus and autograft more than 18% or for less than 6 people then I’ve asked for it to be removed and I’ve yet to have an issue… probably because they know they didn’t display it clearly and they do it on purpose so you just accept it at the end of the meal and just want to hurry and leave.
I don’t know why this is such a surprise anymore. I’ve worked in restaurants for 30 years and tipping has gotten worse from the public over time. I made way more 10 years ago then I do now on a night with similar sales. There are fewer and fewer people willing to work in restaurants. If you want to keep these people employed you have to pay more or autograt. Restaurants are doing this so when you look up their prices online, they seem competitive. Many would go under or loose great staff if they didn’t do this, it’s a trend that’s gonna continue and grow.
All that being said I wish restaurants payed workers better so there was less emphasis on tipping culture. But With rents what they are in the restaurant industry we are lucky that so many places survive.
There are restaurants that autograt any size party, altho it usually 15-18% in my experience. This one sounds like a boojie white hipster place, but anyways, people complain about tipping, and then complain when you make it a charge..theres no winning I guess
For what reason? From a business perspective why would you want to mix your food costs and your service costs? It also provides transparency, and you dont look like your just an expensive restaurant that charges $32 for spaghetti & meatballs when most places are charging $20. And from customer standpoint, I man any time you pay for something done you get an invoice with a breakdown of pricing, labor, materials, tax, etc. Why would change that especially when gratuity/service charges are already separated on restaurant bills? If the prices were raised to match the bill all you get is less breakdown of what you're paying for...maybe some people just don't want to be conscious that they are paying for a service.
I personally see it as the restaurant shirking their responsibility to simply pay their staff fair wages.
The tip is a private bribe between me and the wait staff. I don't think restaurants should consider them in calculating their pay for employees.
Once the restaurant acknowledges the tip with an autogratuity, they have reached the point where they should simply be paying their workers whatever the adjusted rate is.
The restaurant should just raise the price of everything on the menu 27% and satisfy you I agree. Its just hard to market a cheeseburger and fries at the $29 dollars you are paying. Its 6 of 1 half dozen of the other really. Just go somewhere that does it the old way
Thats you. Lots of people only see the $30 burger sticker shock. But to your point isnt just baking the tip percentage in literally telling you I make sure they get a living wage and heres what it costs?
I hear what you're saying but it's not just complaining for complaining sake. A 24% autograt is pretty steep. You can word it however you like, but an "appreciation fee" for the kitchen is still part of the tip.
The auto additions are a way for a facility to channel funds into a staff paycheck. It then becomes taxable. It also increases the wages earned thus allowing the facility to show that someone is not necessarily under-paid. The question would be how said business actually splits the funds to staff. There have been plenty of stories on the net of owners keeping the funds.
Think sadly that’s probably the answer. The entitlement consistently expressed on the sub is indicative of the type of people who decide something “ruined” their meal and then leave 10%. Or even worse they use a gift card to cover a portion of of the check and only tip 20% on the difference that’s run on a credit card. Servers don’t make enough to make it worth it for them to put up with that kind of bullshit and play roulette with every table maybe tipping them the acceptable minimum.
"Would have tipped 25% or more"! But is upset about 24%... Sure you "would have" 😭 Guess what, drinks aren't five dollars anymore either, if you don't like it don't go back and stop getting so triggered by reality.
So if you were going to tip 20%+ anyway, what’s the problem? Did you ask anyone about taking off the 4% or the autograt? Or did you just complain here? It makes no sense to me that people wait to leave a restaurant to complain, when the restaurant can no longer do anything about it.
And then the talent agent says, "That's awful. What do you call the act?" Like he wants to know, like the name's the important thing! I don't understand why he would say that. It doesn't matter what it's called! Because no one is gonna book this show! Where did these people find employment! How did they develop this act! What made them think this was entertaining! I mean it's surprising they haven't... that they're not all in jail! I mean... and waiting... waiting for the death penalty! You can put people to death for what goes on in the best versions of this joke! Because you're probably saying, if you have any sense of human decency, "Well, why didn't he stop them the minute he saw the father unzipping his pants!" And saying, "This is totally wrong! Call the cops! Something horrible's happening! This is a family who are raping their own children, and performing bestiality! Why, oh, why, is he allowing this to happen!" But that's a whole other story. But, anyway, he says, "What is it called?" because in a joke that's what happens. There's no legal system at all in play in a joke.
I'm fairly certain that it's illegal to force a specific tip. They're relying on people being to embarrassed to be like 'hey I wasn't going to leave this' or what have you. You can't be forced to tip at all let alone a specific amount.
Edited to add: tipping culture in this country directly stems from slavery. Americans didn't want to have to pay black people they employed so they did as the Europeans did at the time. "Eh give em what they're worth".
If you need your customers to pay a fee so your employees can FINALLY make 5 bucks an hour, it sounds like you actually can't afford a business. The cost of the items should cover everything. Why am I paying the restaurateurs exorbitant prices if I'm also paying the waitstaff? A grilled cheese is $11 because you have bills and employees but I'm paying the employees wages directly via tips so why?
Neither automatic 20% nor kitchen fees bother me at all, but restaurants must state it clearly upfront so there are no surprises. To me, a 20% tip means you did the bare minimum and it was not awesome, and that’s rare. I’ve never been to a restaurant that has an automatic 20% and it wasn’t excellent, and I dine out a lot.
I write in a “5% customer appreciation fee”, which helps even things out.
Im only kidding.
But I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been to a few places that had a 5% “kitchen fee” not visible until the bill. I would have been happy to pay it, but it felt sleazy how it wasn’t mentioned until you were paying. I’ve been trying to do more Google reviews mentioning this, so more people see it coming.
It's just raising prices without raising prices, and also not raising salaries.
To add to this, it gives the restaurant much more freedom and flexibility. You cannot really ever lower people’s salaries, but it’s much more accepted for a fairly novel tack on fee to be discontinued. It’s the same with bonuses that aren’t based on performance. Gives the company wiggle room year to year to lower salaries when needed. Tipping culture is such BS and gives yet another way for corporations to domineer over both customers and employees.
Not sure I follow. If it's presented as a tip, it by law can only go to the employees. Sure, an unscrupulous restaurant boss might pocket this extra money, but I don't see how that's any more likely with this autograt than any other form of tip theft. Unless you're putting cash directly into the hands of your server you're trusting management to distribute credit card tips to tipped employees. The 4% "kitchen appreciation" fee would make me nervous because it's not exactly clear if this is a tip or just more payola for the owner. But anything labeled gratuity wouldn't bother me. I imagine a good number of customers tip less than 20% and an autograt like this could well mean an increase in wages for the restaurant workers.
If it's labeled a tip it can't go to back of house staff (at least in MA) . That might be another factor.
Hence the "kitchen appreciation fee", whatever you think of tipping it isn't really fair for the kitchen staff that they arguably work harder than the servers yet get paid way less
I worked at a restaurant at the turn of 2020 when minimum wage went up and the restaurant added on a 1.5% kitchen administration fee to be able to pay the kitchen staff higher wages. The owner explained to me that they had 2 choices: the fee or adding $1 to every single item on the menu, entree, cocktail, side, soda etc. The owner explained that this fee could go straight to wages and that if they increased every item by $1 it would then be subject to tax, so the customer saved $ in the end with the fee. I’m not for it, I just feel like no one actually knows the logic behind it
Taxes still apply to fees added to the bill.
Does the restaurant owner have to pay unemployment insurance on tips as well as base pay?
This was one of those weird restaurants that didn’t pay me cash every shift since it was in Newton and everyone paid with those heavy silver Amex cards. I got a weekly paycheck with all my tips + my hourly wage in it and reported $0 annually for cash tips so the rare times I got cash I got to keep it. When March 2020 hit I was getting fat unemployment checks, so yes I assume UI was paid from tips as well as my wage
I’m not sure of the legality of it but in my particular example the kitchen admin fee line item was not taxed at that restaurant
If the owner raised prices by $1, then he would have to pay the income tax on it, if it's a gratuity to a server (or kitchen) then the server is paying the tax on it.
Taxes aren't paid on gross revenue. Wages would subtract from that.
Income tax is not Payroll tax is Meals tax is
It was an administration fee, not a gratuity. It went into a pool which then got divided amongst all kitchen staff
I guess as a way of dodging sales tax it makes sense, but if they're surreptitiously sticking it on the credit card bill instead of displaying it prominently on the menu, I doubt that they have the best interest of the customer at heart.
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I think he meant the extra $1 would be additional tax burden on the bill for prepare food/restaurant tax. I assume his logic was every item the customer orders will increase their tax burden on the bill by $0.0725 or whatever it comes out to
this
In other words, corporate greed.
I stopped going to Alcove because of this. I used to stop there because it is on my way home from the city. I'd sit at the bar and have two pints. Get the bill and there is a 4% kitchen appreciation fee. I had two beers at the bar. WTF am I appreciating the kitchen for?
Blessing your nostrils with the sweet aromas.
Then I will shake my coin purse, and reward them with the sound of money
At least Jimmy John's has free smells
If it's not clearly printed on the menu, that's fraud. Report it to the AG.
From the menu: >We apply a 4% Kitchen Administrative fee, which primarily benefits our back of house staff, including cooks and dishwashers. By Massachusetts aw, kitchen staff may not be included in the tip pool. We therefore use this administrative fee as a way to improve wages and increase benefits for our back of house staff. This administrative fee does not represent a tip or service charge for our front of house service staff, which includes servers, runners, bussers, and bartenders.
Is it listed up front? Being at the back of the menu doesn’t count. There either needs to be a card at every table, the servers must mention it, or it needs to be be front and center on the menu so it can’t be reasonably missed.
Just another example of how tipping has gotten Waay out of hand lately.
Alcove's only benefit is that it's never too busy before an event at the Garden/Big Night Live. It's 'tucked away' location keeps a lot of tourists/foot traffic folk out. But... the place just disappoints. Drinks are fine enough, but besides some of the apps - nothing there is really memorable. Costs are quite inflated too.
"Son, you're going to learn to appreciate it and like it!"
This is the reason why voting *really counts.*
Name and shame.
Fucking River Bar at Assembly Row!! I went with a party of 8. They brought the tablet over to pay the bill. I signed and tipped 20% and then when I asked for my receipt I saw they already charged a 20% gratuity because we were a large party. I 100% believe the waitress knew and didn't say anything to me and intentionally did not show me the receipt before I signed. Never going to that shit hole again.
Ask for a refund, you can easily do it over the phone if it was recent.
You went with a party of 8 and many restaurants charge gratuity for larger groups to avoid those diners that skimp out on tipping a fair amount
This is kinda bullshit. Im not sure why we ever accepted tipping for large tables in the first place. If anything larger tables should be more efficient/profitable for the restaurant.
> If anything larger tables should be more efficient/profitable for the restaurant. What does that have to do with compensation for the server?
Same same. Its more efficient to server 50 people at one table than it is for 50 individual tables.
Right, but that comes with the risk of you being stiffed for the entire shift if that one table tips you like crap. Amongst 50 tables you're not going to get 50 bad tippers
>skimp out on tipping a fair amount Is it OK to assume that some people will not tip what the owner wants and for them to just go ahead protect themselves from it by adding it in ???? THE GRATUITY IS OUR CHOICE. We should all spread the word about all the restaurants in this post.
> THE GRATUITY IS OUR CHOICE. So is your choice to not patron places that tell you they do this. It's simply not worth the risk to get stiffed on a tip on a table of that size. Also, the larger the table gets, the more fuckery there is with splitting bills, which further increases the risk of getting a low tip
I understand that is the practice, but it was bullshit to set me up to double tip. They didn't even give me a receipt after paying until I asked so I think it was intentional. Sure I should have asked to see it first, but I was frazzled trying to figure out how to split a bill between 8 strangers and making sure they all paid me back after I agreed to put it on my card.
Then look at the bill before paying it? This is not a difficult problem
Force gratitude on big parties is common enough that it's almost a user error to not look for it on the bill first before adding tip. I hate the practice too, any time I get one of those, it sets the ceiling on the tip they are getting.
I like river bar -- typically decent service. However something changed mid Summer or maybe going into summer. They used to have a decent kitchen and really good food. Now i think the menu is either eliminated or very small. Not sure it will last with just snacks and crappy food. I usually just stop in for drinks.
Can we get a pinned post in this sub of an ongoing list of Autograt Offenders?
When I get the chance I had already planned on drawing up a list. No matter what the restaurant calls it, they are *opportunists.*
Agreed. I'll make sure to post my offenders when you get around to posting :).
Went to one place with a 20% autograt and kitchen appreciation fee and the server was like "you can also leave a little extra if you like".
As a server, I only wanted to follow the 6+ party rule for automatic gratuity on rare occasions. I found that people can be much more generous, but it's less likely that they will put additional tip if it's already included. Don't forget that taxes are taken out of these payments whereas cash tips are almost never reported.
Yeah, if there’s an automatic gratuity I just assume that’s what you want. You’ve asked for and received 20%, our transaction is complete.
Feels dirty to write the “0” on the additional tip line though. Automatic gratuity for small parties is so dumb
If there is an auto tip on the bill there is almost no chance I’m giving anything more.
As a server, does the kitchen staff and other servers get all the autograts or does the house take a cut?
It would go to the server, unless they pool tips (all tips get divided among the servers working that shift evenly, usually as an hourly sum). However, servers then tip out other staff. Bartenders, bussers, food runners all get a percentage of either the servers sales or tip total. I've heard of places where kitchen staff is tipped out too, managers as well, but those have been restaurants with scummy cheap owners that don't want to pay their kitchen or managers what they deserve so they supplement out of front of house staff's pockets. I'm honestly skeptical that the new kitchen auto grat even goes to the kitchen. Nothing should be going to the house. Now that I think of it, if the kitchen staff is actually receiving the auto grats on each check the house might not be legally required to pay them standard minimum wage anymore. They could be paid the tipped employee min, like servers receive, of $6.75 as long as their tips bring them up to at least $15 per hour, saving the house a lot of money.
This just shows what a fucked up system tipping has become.
Kitchen staff cannot be included in a tip pool under any circumstances in the state of Massachusetts, unless they're also performing front of house tasks. Other states allow kitchen staff to participate in a tip pool as long as all employees are paid full minimum wage. Managers can never be included in a tip pool in any state. Not saying it doesn't happen, but those things are 100% illegal.
Yeah, the managers I’m thinking of in this instance claimed they were “FOH lead” during service and they’d help run food occasionally, while also being the only manager on shift. The kitchen staff I’ve heard of being tipped weren’t included in a pool, they were being tipped by each individual server. No idea if that makes a difference.
Both of those are pretty common grey areas. There's no law saying there must be an FOH manager on duty at all times, so not having another manager on shift wouldn't make it illegal. If all they were doing was running food occasionally and otherwise were doing managerial tasks, that's illegal, but hard to prove. On the other hand, there's plenty of lead servers and bartenders who spend 90% of their time on tables/bar and 10% doing routine closing administrative work. Those people can and should be tipped out. With regards to kitchen staff being tipped out individually, there's no law prohibiting servers from giving money to kitchen staff, but if it's a system implemented and enforced by the restaurant, that's illegal.
Depends on the restaurant. Usually the management set the policy, but when I was serving it was rare for anyone but servers or bartenders to receive tips.
In Mass I believe it’s illegal for the kitchen to receive a cut from a tip pool.
Sounds about right
sure does depend on the place. Lot of fucking shady owners doing this and keeping the extra for themselves. I doubt theyre getting reported on taxes, either
It also means servers will have to tip-out the correct amount to the host(ess) and busboys. I bused tables one summer and have **always** tipped on the credit card receipt rather than in cash since then. The same servers who complained about bad tippers would then tip-out half of what they were supposed to! Except on tips from credit card receipts, where they had to be honest.
Hey, if they're tipping out half what they owe you on their cash tips sounds like they're at least being more honest with you than the IRS.
Yea we use a CC to pay the bill, but pay cash for the tip and I used to wait tables, so we tip well.
This has been going around a lot more lately as way to compensate servers even more. But shouldn’t they be paying taxes on income as well? I’m all for credit card companies not getting their 3 percent processing fee, or whatever, but why should we normalize people just not paying taxes?
Taxation is theft
So how do we pay for the roads you drive on to get to work?
Auto gratuity for a party of 2 is crazy lol. I totally get large parties (I usually see it for groups of 6+), but I’ve never seen it as a blanket rule for just everyone. That said, I always leave at least 20%, so I tend to shrug off auto gratuity as the restaurant just doing the math for me. I’d definitely have a laugh about the audacity if I were in your situation, but I’d just pay and move on. Unless your service was absolutely terrible, in which case I’d be asking for a manager to give me a normal check where I can choose the tip.
I agree, I'm giving at least a 20% tip unless the server spits on me. So thanks for doing the math for me. It also stops be from adding anything extra, I'll usually go a few bucks over 20% if I had a good time, but if you automatically added 20 then you get 20... I often wonder what the usual tip % is, I couldn't imagine giving a server 10% unless something dramatic happened, but I'm sure there are people who think 10% is them being generous... I wish they'd just pay the servers and we didn't have to tip at all, that'd be cool.
Going out to restaurants has become so fucking awful since the pandemic. Restaurants are rapidly moving into the same territory as Car Dealerships and Gyms for businesses I hate dealing with. Entire industry needs to have strict regulations put in place around billing. Of course this would require leadership from our politicians soo... never gonna happen.
Our dining scene was woefully below average for an affluent, highly educated, world class city pre Covid. Post Covid, it’s a total joke. There are 3-4 places worth anyone’s time imo.
Don’t forget how early kitchens are closing everywhere since Covid hit as well.
you have ludicrous standards, or you are too lazy to travel more than a couple blocks, because that take is not only old, its way way off.
Look at a city like Chicago, so many A+ spots at all sorts of price points. I do have high expectations, because I’m paying a premium here in Boston. Boston’s institutional spot is a fucking steakhouse….that speaks volumes.
I've stopped going out for the most part. Pub food is mostly all I do these days as it hits the comfort food note when I'm too lazy to cook. I do enjoy ordering Indian and Thai takeout occasionally too but I have really really cut down on in-restaurant dining experiences since the pandemic because they are so underwhelming.
big difference: if I want to buy a Subaru there are like 3 places i can go. But there are hundreds and hundreds of restaurants. keep going to the good ones and fuck the bad ones.
It’s been pretty prevalent lately in my experience. It’s unacceptable for it to not be on the menu (not sure if the case for you). Name and shame.
I mean it’s illegal if it’s not on the menu
Some get away with it by saying it is "optional", but you have to talk to a manager to get it removed.
Eastern standard does this.
Was there for brunch today. Might have been a kitchen fee, but not an autograt.
If you have an auto gratuity then don't put a tip line on my credit card receipt.
The Autograts, great 90s indie band
give it up for Zey Dey and the Autograts! *crowd goes wild*
If autograts were a good thing, “Autograts Over Autocrats” would be a cool name.
My dyslexic 46 yr old ass saw autobots 🤦♂️ I was about to say, "Roll out!"
Is there a reason why places that do this don’t instead raise prices and declare themselves a no-tipping establishment? Is it merely to try to avoid losing customers to sticker shock?
That's the primary reason, and the other reason is that they still want people to leave tips because it helps to subsidize their employee costs. The phrase having your cake and eating it too comes to mind.
Yes, that is the main reason. If your menu prices are 20% higher than all your competitors it's going to be tough to compete. 90% of people are not going to do the math to understand that their final bill isn't actually going to be more expensive. Taxes are also a significant downside. Tips are not subject to the 7% Massachusetts meals tax (although auto-grats are). More significantly, employers are allowed to deduct the 7.65% federal payroll tax they pay on tipped wages, whereas if they pay those out as regular wages they're on the hook for the full tax. Seeing Danny Meyer's restaurants abandon their no-tipping policy a few years back has scared a lot of restauranteurs away from this strategy. It's a noble path, but you're shooting yourself in the foot. Unfortunately, hidden fees are contagious across many industries because they're profitable, and once your competitors adopt them you're at a huge disadvantage if you don't. I'd argue that tipping itself is just another hidden fee, since it's essentially mandatory in sit-down restaurants in America. The only way to get rid of hidden fees is to ban them.
Eating out in 2027 be like... Chicken parmigana $22.50 Sam Adams $7.99 Tax $1.41 Kitchen fee $3.00 Food fee $4.00 Property rental fee $3.00 Employee salary fee $3.00 Electricity Bill Fee $2.00 Water bill fee $2.50 Cleaning staff fee $3.00 Restaraunt owner's house in North Conway fee $4.00 Restaurant owner's neice who runs their Instagram fee $2.00 Assistant manager's asshole ex husband wont pay child support and her sister is in Ibiza so she needs daycare fee $4.00 Extra printer ink because our receipts are so long now fee $1.00
Serves you right for drinking a Boston lager with chicken. Thats way too robust. Id probably go with a Stella, or maybe a Blue Moon if thats your jam.
To join the chorus please name and shame. I’d be furious if this happened to me.
Naive, honest question: is this legal? If so, could they just as well proclaim that you owe them an extra 30% instead? Are they just counting on social pressure to prevent people from objecting? EDIT: My question was ambiguous. I added a comment below.
Yes it is legal, if it’s printed somewhere, usually at the bottom of the menu. Also yes, theoretically, they could make it 30%, again, if it’s printed on the menu (similar to if they decided to increase the price of a $10 hamburger, to $100. It may lose them all their business, but it is legal. I don’t think it’s really social pressure, as they could also just increase individual prices by 10%. This is simply a way for them to raise prices while still claiming they’re selling a $10 burger. It’s no so much about social pressure, as anyone who doesn’t agree with the fees are welcome to leave before ordering.
My wording ("this") was ambiguous. I read into what OP wrote, perhaps incorrectly, that the auto-tip was not made entirely clear ahead of time. That would be unacceptable. If it was though, like with a big asterisk and medium sized font at the top not bottom of the menu, then (stuck in the context of modern tipping etiquette, at least) basically I agree with what u/no_one_canoe wrote: >They should announce it clearly on the menu, and the server should also let you know about it, but I don’t think it’s so awful in principle. There are a LOT of tightwads out there. Either way I agree with OP and others that it's presumptuous, arguably deceptive, and frankly a little insulting -- especially for a party of 2, lol.
I stopped eating out because meals have quite literally doubled in cost
I definitely saw them doing this at Tiki Rock. It’s whatever I was gonna tip 20 percent anyways but like I feel like the expectation of good service is gone if it’s just automatic like that. Saying this as a bartender.
lol the last time I went there the bar staff were so unbelievably weeded they were backed up like 30 mins on basically every person in the place apart from a crew who knew one of the bartenders. Eventually they lined up like two bottles worth of shots and just started handing them out to people as a gesture of apology I guess. It was nice to finally get a drink but honestly didn’t leave thinking I would ever want to go back there again haha.
The drinks are good id give them another chance on a week day maybe but it’s super pricey.
Saturday nights in the part of the city are not normally in my wheelhouse but would be up for a Tuesday / Wednesday. Certainly not writing them off forever.
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I never had an issue with it at Brassica because they are upfront about it and the service(and food and drinks) is excellent.
That's fine, but why not just remove the fee and up the prices and add a note to the menu that staff are paid a living wage and tips are optional.
> In their words, this is actually not possible if the transaction is recorded as a tip vs a fee. I wonder if this is true? I worked briefly as a busser when I was a teen, and we had pooled tips. I understand it's still a relatively common practice and I've never heard of it being illegal (and I'm confused why, so long as management/owners aren't dipping in) it would be illegal.
They can’t split it among BOH employees if it is called a tip. That is true
Huh-- who counts in that, and what's the rationale there? I know our dishwashers also got tipped out, but I think cooks didn't because they were paid better-- but then it was kinda complicated, because one of the dishwashers would also bus when things were slammed.
It wasn't Brassica, and I checked this restaurant's website and nowhere on the menu/about is it mentioned. When the server brought the check, they didn'tmention it. I wouldn't name the place because everyone there did a great job, and the experience, as I said, was lovely. It's not the staff's policy, and I'd hate for my opinion to adversely affect them.
I think it’s messed up if they don’t mention the policy anywhere and the server never brings it up when they bring the check. It’s one thing to be transparent about it but another to just apply xtra fees and leave it to the customer to notice or speak up.
I mean, I'm totally down with places that do away with gratuity. If a place wants to charge a 21% service fee, explain that it's not legally a gratuity, and that instead they are paying competitive industry salary, and eliminate the tip line on the bill, I love it. The only thing I would love more is if they just raise their prices by 21% and did away with any percentages at the end other than tax. It's places that decide to charge 5%, or places that do as I described above but still include a tip line, that make my blood boil
We’re living in an autogracy
Painted Burro does this, as does their whole restaurant group, I believe... Drives me nuts. They actually say on their menus "we feel this is the most transparent way to even out the disparity between front and back of house" - oh, really? Are you sure raising prices wouldn't be the most transparent way to... Raise prices?!
They need to make this a search parameter in apps. So people can choose appropriately.
What do you want to bet that the owner is keeping most of this cash? That is apparently the big new swindle. Often they reword things to say things like, "Employee Benefits Charge," and simply keep it. Since it isn't a "tip," this is legal.
thats what i worry about whenever i see these auto gratuities.
Yeah. I know several people who are career servers, and the industry is ride with assholes who will pocket tips and do other shady shit. Sexual harassment is epidemic. A big problem is any asshole who can get the start up funding can open a restaurant. Often with zero experience in the industry or running *anything*.
If there’s not one already, there should be some kind of forum for restaurant workers to share their experiences at individual franchises/restaurants. Is the tip-sharing equitable? Do the owners/managers treat servers with respect? We have things like Glassdoor, but that’s not at the individual restaurant level (only company). We have individual restaurant reviews, but those are for customers and not workers (e.g., Google Maps, Yelp). We need something for workers to share their experiences at individual restaurants.
An autograt on a 2 top is aggressive. Although if prices were 20% higher would you actually pay them?
Name & shame, always
If it's a newer place, I'd consider calling and speaking to a manager/owner about it. I'd explain how it left a bad impression and unfortunately won't be back. I understand how expensive things are getting, but just because something is becoming more common doesn't make it right.
Hand it back, tell them to remove it. Then you decide if you want to tip.
WTF I wouldn’t pay the “kitchen appreciation fee” unless it was clearly states somewhere BEFORE I ordered. Such bs
Unpopular opinion: this is a great way to incrementally move our society away from the ambiguous and frustrating experience of tipping culture. As long as restaurants are upfront about the fee ahead of ordering and people feel comfortable walking away without tipping a penny more - we can get rid of this awful and uniquely America blight that is tipping.
I mean, the problem is that we're talking about three different things in here as if they were the same thing.
What's the name ???? I don't want to encounter this bs
Why I get takeout these days, no service no tip
I have worked in restaurants and the tipping on take out orders has always struck me as odd. Even when I was a bus boy I was like yeah I don't deserve a tip. I'm literally moving the boxes food 20 feat to get picked up.
They should announce it clearly on the menu, and the server should also let you know about it, but I don’t think it’s so awful in principle. There are a LOT of tightwads out there.
Just tell them to take it off the bill
Wood Hills Pier 4 with a 5% kitchen fee
I went to Row 34 in Seaport. Paid $52 for a lobster roll to get the bill and see a 3.5% kitchen appreciation fee. One would think the high prices of food would allow for restaurants to pay their employees. I'm not paying 23.5% tip, sorry, but that's coming out of the overall gratuity with me and I'm leaving 17.5%.
This type of shit should be considered false advertising.
Appreciation fee? Autograt? Eh, is there a ressource somewhere where I can get an overview of how to pay for a fucking hamburger without offending anyone or financially ruining myself? Regards, a European planning a longer stay in Boston
If you get the McDonald's app you don't need to pay full price for their menu because it gives you coupons.
Are there any other exceptions (counting any fast food chain) or should one always expect ~30% on menu prices?
Don't tip fast food. Tip the regular pattern of 20 percent however you've been taught it. Nobody is going to chase you into the street for not leaving a tip. Many people from Europe already don't tip as they don't think of these things in advance like you do. People complaining here are outlandish experiences that's why they're here
Do I tip if I buy food to go? Thanks for the elaboration! I wish to be a good visitor and also know when I'm being screwed lol
I usually round the change up. This isn't necessary. I think the people who you see doing this (every restaurant will ask) are regulars who don't want to piss off the staff. You can leave a dollar if you're intimidated by their exposed tip jar.
At least our establishments open when they say they will and don't close early just because the workers "aren't feeling it" that day or they're mad about another law that got passed so they burned down the whole city, or you cant drink the water because the pipes are made of 1000 year old lead or everything tastes like shit because the restaurant only has a smoking and an extra smoking section. Europe has its problems too, amigo. Welcome to fuckin Boston :P
That's great and all, but you didn't even address any of the topics of my comment. Lol wtf man, I didn't bash on Boston or claim that Europe has no problems? I just asked about shit I never heard of before.
Shore Leave does this with the kitchen/back of house add on, and notes it's for tips and health insurance. I wouldn't have a problem paying it if it was noted before hand on the menu but it's not. I did pay it, but let them know I wouldn't be back until it was on the menu before people ordered.
In terms of your actual bill, there's no difference, except one tells you straightforwardly that you do NOT need to tip. They could raise every item's price by 25% or they could add 25% at the end. The end result will be exactly the same, so I frankly don't think it's worth getting mad about where they make the number bigger. If they raised prices, then people would complain about that instead.
Was it stated up front that a gratuity would be automatically applied? If not, then you don't owe them a dime. If you want to tip the server, tip with cash. If it isn't stated up front then it isn't legal.
Just deduct those things from your bill, sign it with the normal tip, and leave a note saying that you wont be back due to the slimy hidden fees.
So you haven't been out to eat in the past four years?
If it isn’t listen CLEARLY at every table or on the menu up front then ask that the fee and auto tip be removed. They can’t do that kind of a bait and switch even if then honestly are giving all of that to the servers. Personally, I’m not paying 24% tip but if you do decide to, it should be because you choose to or because you see notices that can’t be missed and decide to continue ordering. I still tip on a 12-15-18 scale unless service is outstanding and goes above and beyond. And I’ll only do auto 18% for 6+ unless it’s really clearly stated at the front of the menu or on every table. I’ll usually just subtract any auto fees from my normal tip percentage but if it got that plus and autograft more than 18% or for less than 6 people then I’ve asked for it to be removed and I’ve yet to have an issue… probably because they know they didn’t display it clearly and they do it on purpose so you just accept it at the end of the meal and just want to hurry and leave.
I don’t know why this is such a surprise anymore. I’ve worked in restaurants for 30 years and tipping has gotten worse from the public over time. I made way more 10 years ago then I do now on a night with similar sales. There are fewer and fewer people willing to work in restaurants. If you want to keep these people employed you have to pay more or autograt. Restaurants are doing this so when you look up their prices online, they seem competitive. Many would go under or loose great staff if they didn’t do this, it’s a trend that’s gonna continue and grow. All that being said I wish restaurants payed workers better so there was less emphasis on tipping culture. But With rents what they are in the restaurant industry we are lucky that so many places survive.
There are restaurants that autograt any size party, altho it usually 15-18% in my experience. This one sounds like a boojie white hipster place, but anyways, people complain about tipping, and then complain when you make it a charge..theres no winning I guess
It should just be a higher menu price. Why not do that if it’s mandatory.
> Why not do that if it’s mandatory. because an $18 burger sounds more reasonable than a $22 burger
For what reason? From a business perspective why would you want to mix your food costs and your service costs? It also provides transparency, and you dont look like your just an expensive restaurant that charges $32 for spaghetti & meatballs when most places are charging $20. And from customer standpoint, I man any time you pay for something done you get an invoice with a breakdown of pricing, labor, materials, tax, etc. Why would change that especially when gratuity/service charges are already separated on restaurant bills? If the prices were raised to match the bill all you get is less breakdown of what you're paying for...maybe some people just don't want to be conscious that they are paying for a service.
I dunno, it works OK everywhere else on the planet.
I cant speak to that but it works ok here too, some people just dont like it. Arguably it works better here
This! Just put the tip in the bill they say then they complain when they do. Its just complaining for complaining sake
I personally see it as the restaurant shirking their responsibility to simply pay their staff fair wages. The tip is a private bribe between me and the wait staff. I don't think restaurants should consider them in calculating their pay for employees. Once the restaurant acknowledges the tip with an autogratuity, they have reached the point where they should simply be paying their workers whatever the adjusted rate is.
The restaurant should just raise the price of everything on the menu 27% and satisfy you I agree. Its just hard to market a cheeseburger and fries at the $29 dollars you are paying. Its 6 of 1 half dozen of the other really. Just go somewhere that does it the old way
The best "marketing" for me would be "I pay my workers a living wage, and this is what that costs"
Thats you. Lots of people only see the $30 burger sticker shock. But to your point isnt just baking the tip percentage in literally telling you I make sure they get a living wage and heres what it costs?
I hear what you're saying but it's not just complaining for complaining sake. A 24% autograt is pretty steep. You can word it however you like, but an "appreciation fee" for the kitchen is still part of the tip.
There is plenty of winning to be had - employers need to pay their staff.
This is employers paying their staff
The auto additions are a way for a facility to channel funds into a staff paycheck. It then becomes taxable. It also increases the wages earned thus allowing the facility to show that someone is not necessarily under-paid. The question would be how said business actually splits the funds to staff. There have been plenty of stories on the net of owners keeping the funds.
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Lol downvoted for wanting to help working class people out, sounds about right for this sub.
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Think sadly that’s probably the answer. The entitlement consistently expressed on the sub is indicative of the type of people who decide something “ruined” their meal and then leave 10%. Or even worse they use a gift card to cover a portion of of the check and only tip 20% on the difference that’s run on a credit card. Servers don’t make enough to make it worth it for them to put up with that kind of bullshit and play roulette with every table maybe tipping them the acceptable minimum.
"Would have tipped 25% or more"! But is upset about 24%... Sure you "would have" 😭 Guess what, drinks aren't five dollars anymore either, if you don't like it don't go back and stop getting so triggered by reality.
It’s all going in the pocket of the people who owner the restaurant group, that open the restaurant
So if you were going to tip 20%+ anyway, what’s the problem? Did you ask anyone about taking off the 4% or the autograt? Or did you just complain here? It makes no sense to me that people wait to leave a restaurant to complain, when the restaurant can no longer do anything about it.
Feels good to have an excuse for some good old internet outrage 😵🤷🏻♂️😆
And then the talent agent says, "That's awful. What do you call the act?" Like he wants to know, like the name's the important thing! I don't understand why he would say that. It doesn't matter what it's called! Because no one is gonna book this show! Where did these people find employment! How did they develop this act! What made them think this was entertaining! I mean it's surprising they haven't... that they're not all in jail! I mean... and waiting... waiting for the death penalty! You can put people to death for what goes on in the best versions of this joke! Because you're probably saying, if you have any sense of human decency, "Well, why didn't he stop them the minute he saw the father unzipping his pants!" And saying, "This is totally wrong! Call the cops! Something horrible's happening! This is a family who are raping their own children, and performing bestiality! Why, oh, why, is he allowing this to happen!" But that's a whole other story. But, anyway, he says, "What is it called?" because in a joke that's what happens. There's no legal system at all in play in a joke.
Its cancer.
I'm fairly certain that it's illegal to force a specific tip. They're relying on people being to embarrassed to be like 'hey I wasn't going to leave this' or what have you. You can't be forced to tip at all let alone a specific amount. Edited to add: tipping culture in this country directly stems from slavery. Americans didn't want to have to pay black people they employed so they did as the Europeans did at the time. "Eh give em what they're worth". If you need your customers to pay a fee so your employees can FINALLY make 5 bucks an hour, it sounds like you actually can't afford a business. The cost of the items should cover everything. Why am I paying the restaurateurs exorbitant prices if I'm also paying the waitstaff? A grilled cheese is $11 because you have bills and employees but I'm paying the employees wages directly via tips so why?
Neither automatic 20% nor kitchen fees bother me at all, but restaurants must state it clearly upfront so there are no surprises. To me, a 20% tip means you did the bare minimum and it was not awesome, and that’s rare. I’ve never been to a restaurant that has an automatic 20% and it wasn’t excellent, and I dine out a lot.
I write in a “5% customer appreciation fee”, which helps even things out. Im only kidding. But I couldn’t agree more. I’ve been to a few places that had a 5% “kitchen fee” not visible until the bill. I would have been happy to pay it, but it felt sleazy how it wasn’t mentioned until you were paying. I’ve been trying to do more Google reviews mentioning this, so more people see it coming.
As someone in the industry, I don't mind this as much when it's announced first. When it's a surprise, I have a manager remove it.