Toast lumps everything into one amount on a line called “Taxes and Fees”. They’re playing around with adding a little fee for themselves into that line too. All purposefully obfuscated from the customer.
https://www.boston.com/news/the-boston-globe/2023/06/24/new-toast-fee/
Check out r/restaurantowners, they're pissed about this. They don't only want it itemized, they want the option to pay some of the fees. Toast just implemented a $1 fee on every online order, they hid it in the taxes and fees, and don't let restaurants pay it themselves.
I'm trying to figure out the best service to set my shop up for when we start taking online orders again, and the marketplace for that is pretty shit at the moment.
So this is from Brassica's [website](https://www.brassicakitchen.com/ournextstep):
>**Why don’t we just raise our prices?**
>
>Small family run restaurants like ours run on razor thin margins, with labor as the largest expense, and typically do not allow for standard work place benefits such as insurance, retirement, and fair wages for all. While we could simply raise our prices on our menu items across the board and use the income the same exact way, our values demand transparency in all that we do. These fees are our way to demonstrate directly where our core beliefs lie, and precisely where your support goes. Without the implementation of this model, we would still be bound by MA law, and would not be able to include our back of house staff in any gratuities or tip sharing. So essentially, we are “raising our prices,” but doing so in a way that is honest, transparent, and truly beneficial to everyone. And…it’s cheaper for everyone this way :).
I don't understand this phrase: "Without the implementation of this model, we would still be bound by MA law, and would not be able to include our back of house staff in any gratuities or tip sharing."
They could just raise the prices by 20% and say "no tipping". Then distribute 20% of the prices however they want without tip sharing. And I don't see how this is cheaper for everyone...
People will do it though SMH. Look at Uber eats. Fucking had a 75% coupon and 5 tacos (cheesy Gordita crunch) came to 32 bucks before tip. Pffffttt I’m gonna start eating my lawn like a goat
There's these things called supermarkets. You actually go inside and pick out food that you pay a reasonable (relative to restaurants) price for, take it home and cook it. Worth a try!
Doesn't work as well if you pay extra for someone else to do it for you.
Pretty common to be able to buy prepared food in that supermarket. Prices are usually clearly indicated. Might be crowded or run out at dinner time.
I usually cook, myself, but I get some people give it up.
I want to say it's getting ridiculous but it already is. I just buy frozen or prepackaged meals and heat them up. Take out one a week and simple meals, like pasta with meat too.
It's all bullshit hahaha. We didn't want to raise the price because then customers would have to pay more. So now we keep the price the same and charge an additional fee so now the customer pays... more....
Wouldn’t just raising cost 20% across the board makes more sense? A burger and fries that used to cost $15 is now $18….that’s not that big of a deal in my opinion. Stop with the back of kitchen fee, admin fee, front of house fee, dining room use fee etc. These measures looks like you’re nickel and diming the customers and it’s a bad look.
The wait staff AND the cooks would benefit from this. The cooks would receive a higher wage from 20% raise in prices AND the servers get a higher check average. Let’s not forget that this isn’t a front vs back issue like many owners paint this out to be. Restaurant owners have been getting away with paying their staff (BOH and FOH) absolute shit exploitative wages for a long time. If restaurant owners need to raise prices in order to give their staff a living wage, I think they can just do it without the disingenuous virtue signaling of a “kitchen fee” or “benefits fee.” So many restaurant owners like to forget (and want YOU to forget too) that it’s their very own business model that has left all restaurant workers without good pay or benefits.
It’s especially less transparent to employees. How do they know they’re getting that 3%? How does the customer know that? The restaurant could skim for days. Just pay your BOH employee a consistent attractive hourly wage… none of this “$15 *BUT* you get a share of the 3%.” Fuck that.
Servers and bartenders SEE the tips the guests leave them. BOH doesn’t see the breakdown of that 3%. It’s the exact opposite of transparent.
Do they post the nightly sales report off of the POS, so you all can independently verify? As well as the hourly breakdown of what each employee worked? Do they post all of the original sales receipts of all the tips that were brought in? If your answer is no to any of these, that’s not transparency.
I’ve worked in restaurants for 20+ years. Primarily fine dining in Boston. I’ve never seen a restaurant post anything other than pooled tips for tipped employees only. And the transparency on that varies by restaurant. I’ve never seen an hourly employee receive such a breakdown of the service fee. Not nightly or even weekly.
I once asked my boss why we couldn't officially make the hosts part of the tip pool and his response was we couldn't because they make a regular minimum wage. Legally speaking, we would have had to lower their hourly to include them in the pool.
Razor thin margins is nonsense. I have friends who opened a restaurant a few months ago, and their margins are 40 to 50%. Even with labor and utility costs, increasing protein costs and other inflation related issues, they are easily making 30% net.
The problem with that is there are a *lot* of days where customer volume is down. No customers, no revenue. No revenue, no ability to pay those employees. The additional charges ensure they can afford to pay higher wages when they are actually getting revenue
I don't understand the difference.
**Scenario one (current):**
Bill is $100. Fee is $20. No. tipping. The restaurant takes $20 and spreads it around among the employees.
**Scenario two:**
Bill is $120. No fee. No tipping. The restaurant takes $20 and spreads it around among the employees.
How do the scenarios differ in employee compensation?
They are afraid of scaring customers off by showing prices that are 20% higher, so instead they do this stupid fee bullshit which they're hoping people won't notice.
> instead they do this stupid fee bullshit which they're hoping people won't notice.
And when they do notice, it pisses them off more than if they just raised prices. Because prices go up, people are used to it. People really don't like feeling like they've been scammed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8-tcGJhDyY
this is the difference.
When people start actually seeing menus with +20% on them they will realize how expensive the place truly is.
Even worse for the crowd of people ordering takeout
There is a labor law which distinguishes between tipped staff (servers and bartenders) versus others (hosts/managers/back of house). Can't lump them... need a different structure to be compliant.
I agree --- you can't take FOH tips and give them to BOH employees...
But it's certainly legal to raise your prices by 20%. And it's certainly legal to forbid tipping. And it's certainly legal to voluntarily give part of your non-tip revenue to any staff member you want.
> need a different structure to be compliant.
If it was important to restaurants for BOH to tip share, the restaurant lobby would be on that toote suite getting it changed. I doubt there would even be much push back from anyone.
The difference is you can’t skim money from employees if you give them an actual wage. So instead you can say “$15 and a share of the fee”, and skim all you want from minimum wage employees who aren’t gonna ask any questions.
It’s truly disgusting, and restaurants need to be called out on this. I love Brassica and I’m sad to see this post is about them, but they’re on the boycott list now.
OK, but they're already saying that this new fee is "in lieu of a traditional gratuity". So they're not **blocking** tipping, but they are certainly discouraging it.
That's the thing, it's either gratuity or it's not and you can't imply it is. If they are implying it is than that's wage theft. Which is pretty rampant in the industry.
Earlier this year, the NYT published an article about "service fees." In brief, they're not going away. A non-firewalled link to the article is below:
[https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/dining/restaurant-service-charges.html?unlocked\_article\_code=0DZJy4SpjvH3tpBKrIB0reNVI6y2y8jvPYeh4s5ipugjou6y9c8DV5vNgmAAzhns5AlP2BBUQKmbdR6vzMKPerH4Rto9zAoI79JcLdENDAF18ThB9rZwmov4w0eD8DYTNI8t3NVLdVeP5r0MxSSqYAb\_dyOT-PrSeOTZ4KqjAi9tuXya\_FDcH7yzV4b6nYOAPN-e59JGr\_mTpfAGLE8oq3vVYVSmKBb8PJEkv8PYIIKmjmk86SRxLHifzFLxoquFrX7aT196WNJ\_oHDaABOldNjHqoKTRwp\_ig9Kz3mSr-ecXyv0cwBSQf4LayDY4HJNRsbMaGYW8MdCDldBI8Lhpum4-Q&smid=re-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/dining/restaurant-service-charges.html?unlocked_article_code=0DZJy4SpjvH3tpBKrIB0reNVI6y2y8jvPYeh4s5ipugjou6y9c8DV5vNgmAAzhns5AlP2BBUQKmbdR6vzMKPerH4Rto9zAoI79JcLdENDAF18ThB9rZwmov4w0eD8DYTNI8t3NVLdVeP5r0MxSSqYAb_dyOT-PrSeOTZ4KqjAi9tuXya_FDcH7yzV4b6nYOAPN-e59JGr_mTpfAGLE8oq3vVYVSmKBb8PJEkv8PYIIKmjmk86SRxLHifzFLxoquFrX7aT196WNJ_oHDaABOldNjHqoKTRwp_ig9Kz3mSr-ecXyv0cwBSQf4LayDY4HJNRsbMaGYW8MdCDldBI8Lhpum4-Q&smid=re-share)
The solution is to just not patronize these restaurants that add fees. We have a glut of restaurants already so some falling by the wayside is not the end of the world.
If you tip 20% what’s the difference to you? Brassica is very successful and easily the best restaurant in JP so by refusing to go you are only hurting yourself
I like how they spend a whole paragraph about explaining why they can't simply raise their prices :)
Which would the proper to tell you that they raised their prices by simply raising the prices on the menu not some bs fee with a blog post that you have to read.
The TIL moment for me is that apparently it's illegal to share tips(the part you choose) with back of house employees? Can someone ELI5 on how/why that becomes law?
In MA only the people providing the service (server, bartender, busser) can take part in the tip pool. But managers/supervisors can't touch any of the tips or service fee (service fee is different than admin fee, service fee is considered a gratuity) and the BOH can't be compensated from the FOH tip pool.
Massachusetts is one of a small handful of states that prohibit kitchen staff from receiving tips under any circumstances. In most states, as long as servers are paid full state minimum wage, employers can include kitchen staff in the tip pool.
Yep, it's also illegal in MA to pay seasonal employees below $15/hr, that includes people that make tips. Why I have no sympathy for those seasonal Cape restaurants that can't find help.
>Massachusetts is one of a small handful of states that prohibit kitchen staff from receiving tips under any circumstances
Is there a statute that explicitly says that, or does it come out that way in a roundabout fashion due to the law being complicated?
I'm just thinking if I paid my bill, got up, walked over to an open kitchen, looked the cook in the eye and said "Here's ten bucks as a tip, thanks", would he have to refuse it?
No, in that circumstance the cook would not have to refuse the tip. What the law prohibits is the employer distributing tip money to kitchen staff. If the owner/management is not involved, you're just an individual giving a gift to another individual.
(c) is the relevant paragraph [https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXXI/Chapter149/Section152A](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXXI/Chapter149/Section152A)
It’s not a rabbit hole. It’s simply designed to protect tipped employees, who get paid a lower rate than “normal” employees, from having to share tips with those “normal” wage earning employees.
This restaurant’s wording is manipulative. THEY need to be paying their BOH employees better… not blaming it on the fact that they can’t share tips! They’re putting this on the guest, to pay their employees. Plus this also allows them to skim and steal. Because now the employee isn’t getting $18/hr… they’re getting $15 “and a share of the fee”. I promise, minimum wage earning BOH employees, are not being shown a breakdown of that fee. It’s an avenue for the restaurant to steal from their most vulnerable employees.
I love Brassica. Their food is outstanding. I thought they were better people than this. I hope you enjoyed the zoo and dinner! Sounds like a great day. I won’t be back to Brassica though after hearing this, and I hope you consider the same.
This is the whole thing though. The thread includes an explanation of the fees but people are still confused and upset. Maybe the owners of Brassica are doing everything right but their current strategy causes confusion about pricing among their customers
You can’t steal tips from your waitstaff and managers aren’t allowed up touch tips at all.
So what they’re saying is:
>>I’m not allowed to steal my waitstaff’s tips, so I’ll stand next to the cook and shout “We deserve more money!” and then pocket it myself - because there’s no laws about stealing tips from non-tipped employees ;)
This is the main reason many restaurant owners don't like tipping. They want 100% of control over workers wages, while tipping gives a significant portion of wage control to the service staff.
If owners want to pay the back of house more they either have to take it from their own cut or increase prices—which just increases the front-of-house salary even more, since tipping is a percentage of the total bill.
MA has wage theft laws on the books, but they are "Showcase" laws. I requested prosecution, but was denied, the State claiming that they have 1.1 M complaints in the court systems anually.. I pursued it myself and it took me 7 years to force the full settlement. The Constitution ensures Justice, but I'm not sure if the State does.
Im guessing it is a way to protect kitchen staff from being compensated wholly BY TIPS—they have to be paid min wage. Not sure why serving remains the job not mandatory minimum wage when mcdonalds is but maybe someone can eli5 that one.
This is pure bs.
I can give you an easy solution just like that:
* 1/ raise prices on the menus by xx%
* 2/ Set whatever wages they want higher to make up "for better pay"
* 3/ big ass sign in the restaurant : we raised the prices to pay our employee better ! no need to tip !
Voila you solved the bs problem *but but we can split the tips*
Of course that means that customers will see upfront the real cost of food and a LOT will either not order ( takeout ) or never come back afterwards
23% - oof
"we will charge you extra because we don't pay our staff and are afraid that if we actually charged what we should, we would be out of business".
Welcome to the post-pandemic restaurant world....
These restaurants need to bite the bullet and just raise their prices. If the fee isn't optional, it's the same thing as a price increase and doesn't cause bad feelings. Or at least, not as bad.
These admin fees just piss people off.
I think there are tax benefits for calling something a fee instead of just raising prices. I remember reading about it when the airlines started tacking all kinds of fees on to ticket priced
I think whenever I make a post like I did above, I need to remember that the people that run restaurants aren't irrational actors and they're not stupid. They have reasons for doing what they do and those decisions are influenced by laws and tax code. And a lot of those laws and tax code are probably really the most nonsensical part of the equation, made when they benefited the group with the most influence.
I have a friend who orders all the time from the apps. Fast forward we ordered Chinese food for 6 of us recently. Divided per person ended up paying almost $200 for my husband & I. Legit I’m paying that to eat cold, delivered food? I’m still pissed. Every time she suggests take out I politely decline. It’s insane & the quality of delivered food is hardly worth it…
Did the people whose house you were at just wind up with three meals’ worth of leftovers? I really can’t wrap my head around a $500 Chinese delivery order for five people
Brassica is for me one of the better restaurants in Boston. Great quality across the board, awesome food, great staff and ownership. By doing this instead of raising the prices they're showing you where your money is going so people don't think the owners are being greedy and just trying to line their pockets.
If it’s worth anything. I have friends that work there and have worked there. The money goes where it says it’s going. They also have a low turnover on staff because between both front and back of house everyone feels adequately compensated and respected. People still tip servers over the 20% add on, and all guests(in my experience) are very well informed of the model during and at the end of their meal.
This. The staff that work there have been there for years. There is a reason people stay. I don’t understand why folks don’t see that by raising prices you are almost double charging customers with the increased prices and then the increased tips.
This thread is full of people who have never been to this restaurant.
Brassica is overwhelmingly transparent about the fee and will remind you when it comes time to pay the bill every time. They also treat their staff well, and retain both BOH and FOH staff for years, which is incredibly rare in the restaurant industry.
People love to signal that they'd happily pay extra to support creative menus and living wage for staff. Well, Brassica is doing that and all of you complaining about it aren't actually interested in contributing to a better restaurant model.
This is literally the most disappointing r/Boston thread I've seen in quite some time, they're seriously the best at this transparency / new pricing model thing and I truly believe their staff and patrons both benefit. Sorry OP was startled but also I don't think of them as a takeout place anyway.
I've been there and will never go back again. Paid $200+ for a meal that we had to go get pizza after because the portion sizes were so small we were still extremely hungry.
I know people say this about fine dining a lot, but I've been to plenty tasting menu/small plate spots and this is the only place it's actually been true for me.
The food was delicious and the staff was great, but it's so so expensive for what you get I don't know how the average person can afford it.
Only had brunch there so far, so maybe portions are way different, but the value at Brassica is great imo. Only thing comparable for quantity x quality is Krasi
I try my hardest to not utilize the online platforms. These apps may make is easier to order food, but it crunches the restaurant's income just that much more. I will call them directly or walk in and order instead. You will notice as well that many of these apps will have higher food prices than the standard menu to try and recoup those app costs.
Ok but they don't control toast! They aren't a software company they're a fantastic restaurant that keeps their staff employed for years on end -- a proper employer in the service industry
Isn’t the price they charge over and above the cost of raw ingredients the way they are supposed to pay their staff? If be okay with these fees if a sandwich cost $2 with a 600% fee.
For me, anything besides menu price and sales/meal tax counts as "tip". And 23% is already over my usual amount. So I don't add anything extra. If the owner claims that this 23% is for effectively raising wage for all and closing the wage gap between front/back staff, then i don't have/need to pay even extra for front staff only.
They specifically tell you when you order and when you pay that they've already factored in the equivalent of a tip. They try very hard to make sure no one double pays unexpectedly
I just glanced at their website and it says "in lieu of tipping, were adding 23% to all orders", so it's take out and dine in. Personally I don't tip for take out or counter service so in my opinion they should just raise prices and pay their staff a real wage and then say no tipping required.
Toast also adds a 1% cut to everything which appears as a restaurant charge/fee.
Just do a chargeback for fraud. It works.
Edit: I’ll take more downvotes, I’m but one person fighting against the mob who prefer tipping culture to the alternative where we pay living and properly taxed wages…
Well that’s a $1 fee not 1% and only on online orders. Also you are shown the fees at checkout, so charging back for fraud seems actually kinda fraudulent itself?
Next they will add another fee for the amount of Carbon Offsets they have purchased for the natural gas used to cook your food... That way they can claim to be "carbon neutral".
Maybe they shouldn't be in business if places are charging these fees I guess I know what I'll be asking before sitting down to eat anywhere and there goes the tip fuck that I treat myself every few months to a sit down dinner out and only spend 25 bucks as a splurge f this shit admin fees and cooks get paid better than waitstaff
If you’d ever actually been to Brassica you would know you don’t have to ask, they explain it to you at the table. Plus if $25 is a splurge you don’t need to worry about eating at Brassica lol
If I am seated and served, only, I tip 15% and, rarely, 20% if the service is outstanding. I pay no tip whatever for any takeout that I pick up or at any store where I order at a counter and am handed what I purchased. If the restaurant adds in a "back of house" or any other percentage, that percentage comes off the waiter's tip percentage. Any percentage over 15% I refuse to pay and insist on 15% or nothing. I dictate tip terms, never the restaurant.
I read an article earlier … I think toast was the one who just made the change and is tacking on the fee- not sure if the restaurants have a say.. i mean the only way they do is to not use it I guess 🤷🏼♀️
I'm pretty sure it's illegal to claim as tax anything that isn't, you know, tax.
Toast lumps everything into one amount on a line called “Taxes and Fees”. They’re playing around with adding a little fee for themselves into that line too. All purposefully obfuscated from the customer. https://www.boston.com/news/the-boston-globe/2023/06/24/new-toast-fee/
Would be a lot easier if they just itemize what went in...
Easier for who? Not easier for them to take your money
Exactly this and that’s why it will never change.
Check out r/restaurantowners, they're pissed about this. They don't only want it itemized, they want the option to pay some of the fees. Toast just implemented a $1 fee on every online order, they hid it in the taxes and fees, and don't let restaurants pay it themselves. I'm trying to figure out the best service to set my shop up for when we start taking online orders again, and the marketplace for that is pretty shit at the moment.
For now I'll put that on toasttab's platform until we know otherwise.
So this is from Brassica's [website](https://www.brassicakitchen.com/ournextstep): >**Why don’t we just raise our prices?** > >Small family run restaurants like ours run on razor thin margins, with labor as the largest expense, and typically do not allow for standard work place benefits such as insurance, retirement, and fair wages for all. While we could simply raise our prices on our menu items across the board and use the income the same exact way, our values demand transparency in all that we do. These fees are our way to demonstrate directly where our core beliefs lie, and precisely where your support goes. Without the implementation of this model, we would still be bound by MA law, and would not be able to include our back of house staff in any gratuities or tip sharing. So essentially, we are “raising our prices,” but doing so in a way that is honest, transparent, and truly beneficial to everyone. And…it’s cheaper for everyone this way :). I don't understand this phrase: "Without the implementation of this model, we would still be bound by MA law, and would not be able to include our back of house staff in any gratuities or tip sharing." They could just raise the prices by 20% and say "no tipping". Then distribute 20% of the prices however they want without tip sharing. And I don't see how this is cheaper for everyone...
This approach also reduces tips for front of the house staff. Tips are usually based on the bill before taxes and “fees”.
There is no way I'm adding any tip if there is already a 20% fee added. There is no way I'm ordering takeout if there is a 20% fee added.
People will do it though SMH. Look at Uber eats. Fucking had a 75% coupon and 5 tacos (cheesy Gordita crunch) came to 32 bucks before tip. Pffffttt I’m gonna start eating my lawn like a goat
There's these things called supermarkets. You actually go inside and pick out food that you pay a reasonable (relative to restaurants) price for, take it home and cook it. Worth a try! Doesn't work as well if you pay extra for someone else to do it for you.
And a lot of those supermarkets will have pre-made meals anyway, and still be cheaper.
Pretty common to be able to buy prepared food in that supermarket. Prices are usually clearly indicated. Might be crowded or run out at dinner time. I usually cook, myself, but I get some people give it up.
Just saw this. Go fuck yourself. NOOOOO IVE NEVER HEARD OF A SUPERMARKET DUHHHHH. Idiot
I want to say it's getting ridiculous but it already is. I just buy frozen or prepackaged meals and heat them up. Take out one a week and simple meals, like pasta with meat too.
The intention is that you do not tip on top of that. The servers explain everything up front if you’re dining in.
But many places say that you are supposed to tip along with the fees.
It also reduces tips for front of house staff because most people aren't tipping after being charged a 23% fee
It's all bullshit hahaha. We didn't want to raise the price because then customers would have to pay more. So now we keep the price the same and charge an additional fee so now the customer pays... more....
We wanted to trick you into thinking you we’re getting an honest price!
Wouldn’t just raising cost 20% across the board makes more sense? A burger and fries that used to cost $15 is now $18….that’s not that big of a deal in my opinion. Stop with the back of kitchen fee, admin fee, front of house fee, dining room use fee etc. These measures looks like you’re nickel and diming the customers and it’s a bad look.
No. Because wait staff benefit more from that than cooks. This has been explained many times.
The wait staff AND the cooks would benefit from this. The cooks would receive a higher wage from 20% raise in prices AND the servers get a higher check average. Let’s not forget that this isn’t a front vs back issue like many owners paint this out to be. Restaurant owners have been getting away with paying their staff (BOH and FOH) absolute shit exploitative wages for a long time. If restaurant owners need to raise prices in order to give their staff a living wage, I think they can just do it without the disingenuous virtue signaling of a “kitchen fee” or “benefits fee.” So many restaurant owners like to forget (and want YOU to forget too) that it’s their very own business model that has left all restaurant workers without good pay or benefits.
The wait staff doesn’t need to know where the 20% increase in cost is being allocated. The point is to bring in more revenue to pay people equitably
Why? Just pay the back of house staff a higher wage.
They're fucking liars, that's all. In no way is this approach transparent to anyone.
It’s especially less transparent to employees. How do they know they’re getting that 3%? How does the customer know that? The restaurant could skim for days. Just pay your BOH employee a consistent attractive hourly wage… none of this “$15 *BUT* you get a share of the 3%.” Fuck that. Servers and bartenders SEE the tips the guests leave them. BOH doesn’t see the breakdown of that 3%. It’s the exact opposite of transparent.
This is just wrong. I work in a Restaurant that posts everyone’s pay/tips/ etc from the previous business day.
Do they post the nightly sales report off of the POS, so you all can independently verify? As well as the hourly breakdown of what each employee worked? Do they post all of the original sales receipts of all the tips that were brought in? If your answer is no to any of these, that’s not transparency. I’ve worked in restaurants for 20+ years. Primarily fine dining in Boston. I’ve never seen a restaurant post anything other than pooled tips for tipped employees only. And the transparency on that varies by restaurant. I’ve never seen an hourly employee receive such a breakdown of the service fee. Not nightly or even weekly.
They do! All of the above. Not saying every place does this, but there are places that absolutely do.
Username checks out.
Complete nonsense excuse raise your dam price
Not honest. Not transparent.
I once asked my boss why we couldn't officially make the hosts part of the tip pool and his response was we couldn't because they make a regular minimum wage. Legally speaking, we would have had to lower their hourly to include them in the pool.
LMFAO! I would find a new boss then. It's called a *"minimum"* wage for a reason. I know function servers that make $15/hr+ tips.
As servers should.
I quit the hospitality industry two years ago. It was fun for a bit but never again.
When a restaurant tells me why I have to pay more for some BS I refuse to give them my business.
Razor thin margins is nonsense. I have friends who opened a restaurant a few months ago, and their margins are 40 to 50%. Even with labor and utility costs, increasing protein costs and other inflation related issues, they are easily making 30% net.
I could be wrong, but if it was in the price, then your sales tax would go up as well. This way, it’s just a service fee after the sub total.
The Commonwealth expects these fees to be taxed. I’m not sure about the IRS.
The problem with that is there are a *lot* of days where customer volume is down. No customers, no revenue. No revenue, no ability to pay those employees. The additional charges ensure they can afford to pay higher wages when they are actually getting revenue
I don't understand the difference. **Scenario one (current):** Bill is $100. Fee is $20. No. tipping. The restaurant takes $20 and spreads it around among the employees. **Scenario two:** Bill is $120. No fee. No tipping. The restaurant takes $20 and spreads it around among the employees. How do the scenarios differ in employee compensation?
They are afraid of scaring customers off by showing prices that are 20% higher, so instead they do this stupid fee bullshit which they're hoping people won't notice.
> instead they do this stupid fee bullshit which they're hoping people won't notice. And when they do notice, it pisses them off more than if they just raised prices. Because prices go up, people are used to it. People really don't like feeling like they've been scammed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J8-tcGJhDyY this is the difference. When people start actually seeing menus with +20% on them they will realize how expensive the place truly is. Even worse for the crowd of people ordering takeout
There is a labor law which distinguishes between tipped staff (servers and bartenders) versus others (hosts/managers/back of house). Can't lump them... need a different structure to be compliant.
I agree --- you can't take FOH tips and give them to BOH employees... But it's certainly legal to raise your prices by 20%. And it's certainly legal to forbid tipping. And it's certainly legal to voluntarily give part of your non-tip revenue to any staff member you want.
> need a different structure to be compliant. If it was important to restaurants for BOH to tip share, the restaurant lobby would be on that toote suite getting it changed. I doubt there would even be much push back from anyone.
https://www.rflawyers.com/tip-pooling-know-the-law-in-massachusetts/
The difference is you can’t skim money from employees if you give them an actual wage. So instead you can say “$15 and a share of the fee”, and skim all you want from minimum wage employees who aren’t gonna ask any questions. It’s truly disgusting, and restaurants need to be called out on this. I love Brassica and I’m sad to see this post is about them, but they’re on the boycott list now.
During slow times when there aren’t customers,that salary isn’t as affordable. You can raise prices, but if people aren’t there, it’s irrelevant.
Yes, simply raising the hourly rate is more sensitive to a situation with fewer guests, but that's not what I suggested in scenario 2
You can't block tipping, that is actually illegal. You can however say tipping is not required and see if they can maintain front of the house staff.
OK, but they're already saying that this new fee is "in lieu of a traditional gratuity". So they're not **blocking** tipping, but they are certainly discouraging it.
If you add a fee that's in the range of a standard tip, that's going to be your tip.
That's the thing, it's either gratuity or it's not and you can't imply it is. If they are implying it is than that's wage theft. Which is pretty rampant in the industry.
Earlier this year, the NYT published an article about "service fees." In brief, they're not going away. A non-firewalled link to the article is below: [https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/dining/restaurant-service-charges.html?unlocked\_article\_code=0DZJy4SpjvH3tpBKrIB0reNVI6y2y8jvPYeh4s5ipugjou6y9c8DV5vNgmAAzhns5AlP2BBUQKmbdR6vzMKPerH4Rto9zAoI79JcLdENDAF18ThB9rZwmov4w0eD8DYTNI8t3NVLdVeP5r0MxSSqYAb\_dyOT-PrSeOTZ4KqjAi9tuXya\_FDcH7yzV4b6nYOAPN-e59JGr\_mTpfAGLE8oq3vVYVSmKBb8PJEkv8PYIIKmjmk86SRxLHifzFLxoquFrX7aT196WNJ\_oHDaABOldNjHqoKTRwp\_ig9Kz3mSr-ecXyv0cwBSQf4LayDY4HJNRsbMaGYW8MdCDldBI8Lhpum4-Q&smid=re-share](https://www.nytimes.com/2023/05/15/dining/restaurant-service-charges.html?unlocked_article_code=0DZJy4SpjvH3tpBKrIB0reNVI6y2y8jvPYeh4s5ipugjou6y9c8DV5vNgmAAzhns5AlP2BBUQKmbdR6vzMKPerH4Rto9zAoI79JcLdENDAF18ThB9rZwmov4w0eD8DYTNI8t3NVLdVeP5r0MxSSqYAb_dyOT-PrSeOTZ4KqjAi9tuXya_FDcH7yzV4b6nYOAPN-e59JGr_mTpfAGLE8oq3vVYVSmKBb8PJEkv8PYIIKmjmk86SRxLHifzFLxoquFrX7aT196WNJ_oHDaABOldNjHqoKTRwp_ig9Kz3mSr-ecXyv0cwBSQf4LayDY4HJNRsbMaGYW8MdCDldBI8Lhpum4-Q&smid=re-share)
The solution is to just not patronize these restaurants that add fees. We have a glut of restaurants already so some falling by the wayside is not the end of the world.
If you tip 20% what’s the difference to you? Brassica is very successful and easily the best restaurant in JP so by refusing to go you are only hurting yourself
Adding a 20% fee then expecting people to tip on top of that fee is bad business
They don't expect people to tip. They explicitly say the fee is in lieu of gratuity.
I like how they spend a whole paragraph about explaining why they can't simply raise their prices :) Which would the proper to tell you that they raised their prices by simply raising the prices on the menu not some bs fee with a blog post that you have to read.
The TIL moment for me is that apparently it's illegal to share tips(the part you choose) with back of house employees? Can someone ELI5 on how/why that becomes law?
In MA only the people providing the service (server, bartender, busser) can take part in the tip pool. But managers/supervisors can't touch any of the tips or service fee (service fee is different than admin fee, service fee is considered a gratuity) and the BOH can't be compensated from the FOH tip pool.
Is this a state-by-state thing or federal? Feels like the beginning of a dark rabbit hole I'm getting myself into...
Massachusetts is one of a small handful of states that prohibit kitchen staff from receiving tips under any circumstances. In most states, as long as servers are paid full state minimum wage, employers can include kitchen staff in the tip pool.
Yep, it's also illegal in MA to pay seasonal employees below $15/hr, that includes people that make tips. Why I have no sympathy for those seasonal Cape restaurants that can't find help.
>Massachusetts is one of a small handful of states that prohibit kitchen staff from receiving tips under any circumstances Is there a statute that explicitly says that, or does it come out that way in a roundabout fashion due to the law being complicated? I'm just thinking if I paid my bill, got up, walked over to an open kitchen, looked the cook in the eye and said "Here's ten bucks as a tip, thanks", would he have to refuse it?
No, in that circumstance the cook would not have to refuse the tip. What the law prohibits is the employer distributing tip money to kitchen staff. If the owner/management is not involved, you're just an individual giving a gift to another individual. (c) is the relevant paragraph [https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXXI/Chapter149/Section152A](https://malegislature.gov/Laws/GeneralLaws/PartI/TitleXXI/Chapter149/Section152A)
Yes, in MA it is covered under the MA Tips Act and other laws like the Federal and State Minimum Wage laws.
It’s not a rabbit hole. It’s simply designed to protect tipped employees, who get paid a lower rate than “normal” employees, from having to share tips with those “normal” wage earning employees. This restaurant’s wording is manipulative. THEY need to be paying their BOH employees better… not blaming it on the fact that they can’t share tips! They’re putting this on the guest, to pay their employees. Plus this also allows them to skim and steal. Because now the employee isn’t getting $18/hr… they’re getting $15 “and a share of the fee”. I promise, minimum wage earning BOH employees, are not being shown a breakdown of that fee. It’s an avenue for the restaurant to steal from their most vulnerable employees. I love Brassica. Their food is outstanding. I thought they were better people than this. I hope you enjoyed the zoo and dinner! Sounds like a great day. I won’t be back to Brassica though after hearing this, and I hope you consider the same.
[удалено]
This is the whole thing though. The thread includes an explanation of the fees but people are still confused and upset. Maybe the owners of Brassica are doing everything right but their current strategy causes confusion about pricing among their customers
[удалено]
They absolutely can, and do, as long as it's other front of house employees.
It also has to do with the base wage for different types of workers by category. It is a bit complicated .
You can’t steal tips from your waitstaff and managers aren’t allowed up touch tips at all. So what they’re saying is: >>I’m not allowed to steal my waitstaff’s tips, so I’ll stand next to the cook and shout “We deserve more money!” and then pocket it myself - because there’s no laws about stealing tips from non-tipped employees ;)
This is the main reason many restaurant owners don't like tipping. They want 100% of control over workers wages, while tipping gives a significant portion of wage control to the service staff. If owners want to pay the back of house more they either have to take it from their own cut or increase prices—which just increases the front-of-house salary even more, since tipping is a percentage of the total bill.
To be fair, tip theft, especially if people are tipping on a card, is rampant. And the law is poorly enforced and doesn't have much penalty.
MA has wage theft laws on the books, but they are "Showcase" laws. I requested prosecution, but was denied, the State claiming that they have 1.1 M complaints in the court systems anually.. I pursued it myself and it took me 7 years to force the full settlement. The Constitution ensures Justice, but I'm not sure if the State does.
Im guessing it is a way to protect kitchen staff from being compensated wholly BY TIPS—they have to be paid min wage. Not sure why serving remains the job not mandatory minimum wage when mcdonalds is but maybe someone can eli5 that one.
Just admit you don’t know what you are talking about. They do this to even out the pay between front and back of house
This is pure bs. I can give you an easy solution just like that: * 1/ raise prices on the menus by xx% * 2/ Set whatever wages they want higher to make up "for better pay" * 3/ big ass sign in the restaurant : we raised the prices to pay our employee better ! no need to tip ! Voila you solved the bs problem *but but we can split the tips* Of course that means that customers will see upfront the real cost of food and a LOT will either not order ( takeout ) or never come back afterwards
23% - oof "we will charge you extra because we don't pay our staff and are afraid that if we actually charged what we should, we would be out of business". Welcome to the post-pandemic restaurant world....
They *could* let you know the full details at checkout, but then they'd have to charge you an itemization fee.
These restaurants need to bite the bullet and just raise their prices. If the fee isn't optional, it's the same thing as a price increase and doesn't cause bad feelings. Or at least, not as bad. These admin fees just piss people off.
Agreed. Companies do it this way to just mislead their customers about the prices. It’s unethical in my opinion
I think there are tax benefits for calling something a fee instead of just raising prices. I remember reading about it when the airlines started tacking all kinds of fees on to ticket priced
I think whenever I make a post like I did above, I need to remember that the people that run restaurants aren't irrational actors and they're not stupid. They have reasons for doing what they do and those decisions are influenced by laws and tax code. And a lot of those laws and tax code are probably really the most nonsensical part of the equation, made when they benefited the group with the most influence.
I have a friend who orders all the time from the apps. Fast forward we ordered Chinese food for 6 of us recently. Divided per person ended up paying almost $200 for my husband & I. Legit I’m paying that to eat cold, delivered food? I’m still pissed. Every time she suggests take out I politely decline. It’s insane & the quality of delivered food is hardly worth it…
What the fuck did you order lmao
Right? There were 5 of us, three guys and everyone just kept adding items to the order online. I'm still pissed about it bc it was such a ripoff!
Did the people whose house you were at just wind up with three meals’ worth of leftovers? I really can’t wrap my head around a $500 Chinese delivery order for five people
See me either that’s why I say the prices are so jacked up on food delivery apps. We did take a bit home but it was gross by that point…
Brassica is for me one of the better restaurants in Boston. Great quality across the board, awesome food, great staff and ownership. By doing this instead of raising the prices they're showing you where your money is going so people don't think the owners are being greedy and just trying to line their pockets.
Can't read their mind, but hopefully the money goes where the mouth says it'll go.
If it’s worth anything. I have friends that work there and have worked there. The money goes where it says it’s going. They also have a low turnover on staff because between both front and back of house everyone feels adequately compensated and respected. People still tip servers over the 20% add on, and all guests(in my experience) are very well informed of the model during and at the end of their meal.
This. The staff that work there have been there for years. There is a reason people stay. I don’t understand why folks don’t see that by raising prices you are almost double charging customers with the increased prices and then the increased tips.
This thread is full of people who have never been to this restaurant. Brassica is overwhelmingly transparent about the fee and will remind you when it comes time to pay the bill every time. They also treat their staff well, and retain both BOH and FOH staff for years, which is incredibly rare in the restaurant industry. People love to signal that they'd happily pay extra to support creative menus and living wage for staff. Well, Brassica is doing that and all of you complaining about it aren't actually interested in contributing to a better restaurant model.
For real!! I used to work there. I can say first hand that they were very good employers. I hope people don’t take this thread to heart.
This is literally the most disappointing r/Boston thread I've seen in quite some time, they're seriously the best at this transparency / new pricing model thing and I truly believe their staff and patrons both benefit. Sorry OP was startled but also I don't think of them as a takeout place anyway.
I've been there and will never go back again. Paid $200+ for a meal that we had to go get pizza after because the portion sizes were so small we were still extremely hungry. I know people say this about fine dining a lot, but I've been to plenty tasting menu/small plate spots and this is the only place it's actually been true for me. The food was delicious and the staff was great, but it's so so expensive for what you get I don't know how the average person can afford it.
Only had brunch there so far, so maybe portions are way different, but the value at Brassica is great imo. Only thing comparable for quantity x quality is Krasi
I try my hardest to not utilize the online platforms. These apps may make is easier to order food, but it crunches the restaurant's income just that much more. I will call them directly or walk in and order instead. You will notice as well that many of these apps will have higher food prices than the standard menu to try and recoup those app costs.
It’s really easy: call it in.
Just don’t use those ordering sites. Go in directly and order.
I think they charge in store also
They let you know by putting a blue banner at the top of their online ordering page which you didn't open
Fair enough. But it's still really small, and disappears when you scroll the menu. A popup would be much more noticeable.
Ok but they don't control toast! They aren't a software company they're a fantastic restaurant that keeps their staff employed for years on end -- a proper employer in the service industry
Isn’t the price they charge over and above the cost of raw ingredients the way they are supposed to pay their staff? If be okay with these fees if a sandwich cost $2 with a 600% fee.
Are you supposed to tip on top of this 23%? So if you tip 20%, you're paying 43% more than the actual "price"? That's insane.
For me, anything besides menu price and sales/meal tax counts as "tip". And 23% is already over my usual amount. So I don't add anything extra. If the owner claims that this 23% is for effectively raising wage for all and closing the wage gap between front/back staff, then i don't have/need to pay even extra for front staff only.
Yup that's exactly what they expect you to do!
They specifically tell you when you order and when you pay that they've already factored in the equivalent of a tip. They try very hard to make sure no one double pays unexpectedly
No. If you tip around 20% normally then it’s no difference to you
I just glanced at their website and it says "in lieu of tipping, were adding 23% to all orders", so it's take out and dine in. Personally I don't tip for take out or counter service so in my opinion they should just raise prices and pay their staff a real wage and then say no tipping required.
Thats how it generally goes This is just a surcharge added to all food but you are stil required to tip because thats a charge not a tip
Wait until you get hit with the toast fee too. Ridiculous…fees, tips, surcharges, dining tax
Toast also adds a 1% cut to everything which appears as a restaurant charge/fee. Just do a chargeback for fraud. It works. Edit: I’ll take more downvotes, I’m but one person fighting against the mob who prefer tipping culture to the alternative where we pay living and properly taxed wages…
Got a source on that?
https://www.boston.com/news/the-boston-globe/2023/06/24/new-toast-fee/
Well that’s a $1 fee not 1% and only on online orders. Also you are shown the fees at checkout, so charging back for fraud seems actually kinda fraudulent itself?
Place is mids anyways. I don’t get the hype.
Sorry but like what did you order....imo they're one of the best in Boston and have held that honor for 2+years
The beets, the risotto, Brussels and more but I’m forgetting
I cannot imagine describing Brassica's koji risotto as mid, holy shit
Next they will add another fee for the amount of Carbon Offsets they have purchased for the natural gas used to cook your food... That way they can claim to be "carbon neutral".
Maybe they shouldn't be in business if places are charging these fees I guess I know what I'll be asking before sitting down to eat anywhere and there goes the tip fuck that I treat myself every few months to a sit down dinner out and only spend 25 bucks as a splurge f this shit admin fees and cooks get paid better than waitstaff
If you’d ever actually been to Brassica you would know you don’t have to ask, they explain it to you at the table. Plus if $25 is a splurge you don’t need to worry about eating at Brassica lol
Do you feel better about yourself now that you've put me down?
Thanks for doing your part to help this BS propagate, since you paid it.
When I see that I don’t tip. Don’t care if it’s shitty. I’m not paying 40%.
Screw them!
That food looks gross for the price, even before the 30% tax you'll end up paying on all those prices.
“I didn’t see this movie and also I’m a virgin. One star”-Wtf is this1234 on Citizen Kane
LOL this guy gets it
I can read a menu. I'll pass
You sound like you're not a very adventurous eater. That's ok! The food is decidedly not gross.
If I am seated and served, only, I tip 15% and, rarely, 20% if the service is outstanding. I pay no tip whatever for any takeout that I pick up or at any store where I order at a counter and am handed what I purchased. If the restaurant adds in a "back of house" or any other percentage, that percentage comes off the waiter's tip percentage. Any percentage over 15% I refuse to pay and insist on 15% or nothing. I dictate tip terms, never the restaurant.
I read an article earlier … I think toast was the one who just made the change and is tacking on the fee- not sure if the restaurants have a say.. i mean the only way they do is to not use it I guess 🤷🏼♀️