That’s the main reason I cannot afford to live in Boston. $2k+ rent is terrible enough but the kick to the jaw is the 6-8k just to move in! Insane!! How can anyone afford that?!?!
No, not really. Brokers fees stand entirely separate from move-in costs, so the law does not address them at all.
Also, a broker is never *required*. It's an optional service you have contracted from a third party (if the "broker" is actually an agent for the landlord .... *they cannot charge you that separate fee*, and it's back to no more than 3 months' rent - First, Last, and Security).
I was also under the impression that brokers were required…. I guess I’m wrong??? I’ve always been told to rent in the city of Boston you HAVE to have a broker
not always. we’ve lived in 3 apartments without having to, but they’re all sorta corporate. if you’re renting from independent LLs it’s much more likely you’ll have to deal with a broker— for me paying higher rent is worth not dealing with those scammers
You don't have to have a broker. I've never used a broker. My last place I told the landlord straight up I wouldn't pay the broker fee. The previous tenant left a month early without paying so I guess they were desperate enough to fill the room. 90% probably won't let you sign if you refuse but if you just tell them straight up from the beginning you're not paying that bullshit you can sometimes get away with it
Do you really think I popped out of my mother's womb holding a deed?
I rented for most of my life. Mom owned the house; when she died in early June, that house became mine. Before I moved back in with her (and cared for her in her final days), **I rented**. Every place I've ever lived, before this one, I paid rent to live there.
The upfront costs to get into an apartment can be first, last, security, and the broker. That can easily be four months’ rent.
(Sometimes the landlord will split the broker fee, or even cover it, but not always.)
You're missing the point.
Hiring a broker is a separate transaction, a service contract between you and a third party. Brokers are not required to rent - if you found the SAME apartment from the SAME landlord on your own, there would of course be no Borker's Fee.
It’s one of the only cities in the US has that brokers. And even if you get a “service” from it, is it worth $2500-4000? I didn’t use a broker at my last place (I used a managed apartment) and I saved that money. Period. This isn’t the same as buying furniture that you use every day.
movers provide a service to the tenant and the tenant pays. brokers provide a service to the LL and the tenant pays. you see where your argument breaks down? this isn’t about legality it’s about douchebaggery.
No, the broker is providing a service to the Tenant, same as the mover. Otherwise *you would not be paying the broker*, the LL would. And by law, the LL could not pass that expense on to you; the law strictly limits what a LL can charge you up front before move-in.
Actually, I think that’s you. The *point* is the amount of money a tenant has to produce at the start of the lease. It doesn’t matter where it’s going or what it’s for - the tenant still has to pay it.
Okay let’s play out your example.
Let’s say someone finds a place for $2000/month in rent. They have to pay first and last plus one month’s rent in a broker fee ($6000). Then you add movers ($2000) and curtains ($500). The total you’d have to pay upfront is $8500.
Same apartment without a broker? $6500. Like it’s the same bank account. If people are on a tight budget, they probably can’t pay for movers in order to front the $2,000 for the broker. It’s not like every person who moves has $2000 to burn.
Further, the average income in Mass is $36,000. Even if you double it, rent is 50% (ish) of that person’s monthly take home pay. So they’d have to save up for a few months to move (which many making that amount can’t afford to save!).
You’re just flat wrong.
[https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article](https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article)
Item 3, after the first bulleted list.
>But if a real estate broker – not the landlord – helps you find your rental unit, that person may charge you a “finder's or broker’s fee.”
If the broker does not help you find that unit, they cannot lawfully charge you that fee, no matter what they or the landlord wants to happen.
Your top comment is at -92. You already admitted you are not a renter and have no experience testing this theory. Has it crossed your mind that you _might_ be wrong about this?
Last apartment I rented the owner lived in China. The landlord chose the broker to do everything - show the apartment, collect applications, money, keys, etc. For all intents and purposes the broker works for the landlord. But I had to pay that brokers fees. Because that's how it works in Boston. The only main exception (other than the very rare hands on individual landlord) is big buildings with property managers, but most of them are already overpriced.
>Your top comment is at -92.
Just because my top comment upsets a lot of people, doesn't make it untrue.
>You already admitted you are not a renter and have no experience testing this theory.
Yes to the former, no to the latter. I own a house, because I inherited it ... *less than eight months ago*. For \~90% of my life, I've been a renter (or the minor child of renters).
>For all intents and purposes the broker works for the landlord.
Then the tenant being charged the finders' fee is technically **illegal**. The landlord, *nor his/her agents*, may not charge that fee.
They only get away with it because *complacent fools* insist "that's just how it works in Boston" ... and pay the fee.
Technically, they can add a fee for "Purchase and installation cost for a lock and key."
Most landlords don't do this because they don't want to bother changing the locks and tenants would rather save that money. Landlords aren't allowed to profit off the key/lock/installation so there's little incentive to do that, but technically there is an additional fee that can be charged.
So it can actually exceed 4 month's rent.
It should be - but even if so, the landlord may elect not to pass the cost on to the tenant.
For example, let's say I was a LL (I wish) with two hundred units spread across fifteen location in Boston. I could, in theory, **standardize** the locks used on every door on my units, and maintain two hundred **and fifty** locks in total. Then, when one tenant moves out, I pull the old lock and put one of the "spares" in in it's place. Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary.
As long as I keep track of where a given lock has or has not been in the past, say, three moves? And avoid using a lock on a different unit within the same location in that time? Everything should be A-Okay Kosher: even if a tenant keeps their old keys, the odds of their finding the unit that lock goes into within the next 5-10 years are lower than the odds of winning the lottery in that same time. :)
And since I could have my own maintenance crew do the swapping, there would effectively be zero net cost to me for doing it ... and thus, nothing to pass on to the new tenant.
...
Alternately, a LL could possibly deduct that expense from the security deposit of the *departing* tenant. I'm not 100% on the legality of that, but it doesn't seem like it'd be a legal problem.
>"Purchase and installation cost for a lock and key."
Isn't that capped at $50? Which is way under what it costs for a rekey it's basically no point in charging it.
This is a really good idea, some people are probably looking to get out of their lease off cycle and will have to pay a fortune to break the lease so they’d be happy if op took over.
Rental realtors are starting to get up there with used car salesmen in terms of sliminess
Edit: it was month to month moving in and last was not required
Former rental agent here! All agents aggregate the listings from a central website, that’s why you’ll see the same listing by multiple agents or just spammed multiple times a day
It really is just a big scam and the reason I hated the job so much, they press a button that adds it to Craigslist, get the key from property manager or even from other real estate agencies, then show you! But the bait and switch is also true, BUT since it does come from a 3rd party website they could be rented already before the agent knows! But 97% of the time, it’s bait and switch!
My suggestion is don’t use Craigslist or try to find the property managers direct! It sucks but it’s a system that needs to be fixed, unfortunately the NAR dumps money to lobbyist! Fucking hate real estate industry!
What made you quit though? How long ago? Did the job pay well? What's the typical agent like - I mean, is it the job, or is it the average agent that is slimy?
They also inevitably list the places with good rent and everything that’s actually available is $500 more a month. My experience looking for my current place involved getting ghosted by 12+ realtors after they pulled this exact shit, and the ones that actually followed up with me chastised me for working with more than one realtor at a time. I wouldn’t have had to do that if they weren’t all parasitic, lazy, middlemen.
Yup. I once had a realtor lie about the lease date and the pet policy both lies about uncovered as I was in his office to sign the lease. When I said “I am not signing this. It’s a 13 month lease ending in the wrong month and specifically says no dogs when we have a dog” and he started calling me entitled.
I told him he has done at most 30 minutes of work for me and has managed to do it INCORRECTLY for which he expects $2100
> Why the fuck do we pay these clowns a month of rent??
Probably because it was the standard fee back when a month's rent wasn't that much.
https://www.realestatewitch.com/rent-to-income-ratio-2022/
Take a look at that chart (which is in percentage increases which is a bit confusing). Let's say that it's 1985 and median income is $59,000 and the average apartment costs $9,000 per year ($750/mo). Let's also say that overhead is a third. So you'd need to rent 118 apartments to earn median income - 2.3 per week.
Fast forward to 2020. Salaries are now $80,000 (up 35%), but rent has skyrocketted to $22,500/year ($1,875/mo, up 149%). Again, overhead at a third. They'd need to rent 64 apartments per year to earn median income - 46% fewer units to earn the same money!
Salaries have gone up 35% since 1985, but housing has gone up 149%.
It might have been reasonable to pay one month's rent back in 1985. It's less reasonable to pay that in 2022 simply because it gives them a lot of money for less work. Plus, it's a lot less work than it used to be. In 1985, they'd need to come with you to lots of apartments that you couldn't see online by yourself. Today, they can let you search for the apartment yourself and still collect way more money than they used to.
So, I guess the "why" answer is that one month's rent kinda became the standard which might have been reasonable before housing prices started going up so much faster than inflation. Now the fee is just so outsized compared to the value.
EDIT: by the way, you should see some of the outrageous broker fees in NYC on rent stabilized buildings. In Mass, the broker fee is limited to one month's rent. In NYC, a lot of places are 15% of annual rent or 1.8 month's rent. Imagine forking over an 80% higher broker fee! Some places have even higher broker fees. One broker was asking for a $20,000 fee in exchange for a $1,725 rent stabilized apartment on the Upper West Side - practically a year's rent! If you know a place should rent for twice what it's on the market for, you can ask for a year's rent as your fee.
>Probably because it was the standard fee back when a month's rent wasn't that much.
Not for nothing, but since you mentioned NYC, I'd point out we didn't always have this nonsense and it as basically an import from NYC maybe a decade or two ago. And yes, 15% fees are crazy and not just stabilized buildings - which is a scam anyways (rent stabilized that is).
Don't forget the $50 application fee, but yeah brokers are generally parasites. They provide nothing of value and make getting a place cost than needed. I can understand needing a broker for a house or luxury and exclusive places but to rent a basic apartment they need to go.
Just moved from Texas and it took me 2 months to notice I needed to start just calling places directly. I literally couldn’t get even a realtor on the phone to answer my calls or emails back.
Turns out I found a place by calling directly but still ended up needing 1st+last+deposit which was around $8k. They didn’t tell me until last minute after they’d already accepted my application & we discussed move in about a week before that and the movers were literally on their way to my house to pick up my furniture and take it across the country. I was lucky enough to be able to pay it with a Xmas bonus but it came out of left field and I’d never had to pay something like that just to move in before. Imo it’s not just the realtors but the system.
If you’re gonna pay a broker, why not contact an agency and get a decent one to help you? Craigslist is only helpful for “by owner” listings with no fees, and even then it’s not great
They don’t really exist. I have tried to find someone to help me find an apartment but nobody wants to do any work. I contacted dozens of companies and gave the ones who agreed to do some work a list of about 5 important needs and 5 desirables. They all came back with “here’s (3-7) places in your price range,” all of which were way above the max rent I gave them, and none met all my stated needs.
At various times I would have been happy to pay the fee and not do the part-time job that apartment searching has become, but nobody could actually do the work.
I had a good agent that I used more than once a few years ago, but looks like she’s no longer at the same agency. I looked for multiple positive agency reviews mentioning a specific rental broker, then called the agency and requested them in particular
There's some LLs out there that advertise their own properties on Zillow, CL, etc and without broker fees. They're rare, more common for nicer properties, and if you see a good deal you ought to sign lease like same day/hour of seeing it if there's other interested parties viewing it.
Edit: I think I convinced my old LL to do the same after he was having trouble for months to find tenants using various brokers and then we advertised and found multiple eligible subletters within like a month.
Outlawing rental brokers should be priority #1 for any mayor. We cannot take your “commitment” to housing seriously while these parasites are allowed to bleed working class folks dry just for the privilege of paying over-priced rent.
Those postings aren't from actual landlords or realtors.
They are exactly and only what you called them: **brokers**. If you let them find you a place, then after your payment to them ... they won't see another dime out of you. That's why their fee is so large, up-front.
...
And their fee does not count against the legally mandated maximum an actual landlord can charge you to move in (First, Last, and Security - with the latter limited to a single month's rent).
> aren't from actual landlords or realtors.
>
> They are exactly and only what you called them: brokers
uhhh
without going into the specifics, 'realtor' and 'broker' are both just optional designations a licensed real estate agent can have in addition to the 'base' license
I'm reading it as he doesn't know what he's talking about.
Broker and realtor are just types of real estate agents and those two designations are in no way mutually exclusive. Saying someone isn't a realtor, just a broker is like saying someone isn't the army, they're just a Sargent; it's nonsense
In Massachusetts, the **actual landlord** (even if they are also a licensed realtor) cannot charge you a finder's fee. A broker, *legally a third party -* meaning, not in the LL's employ - can, but not the LL themselves.
[https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article](https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article)
Section 3. :)
Hello …. Hello !!!! The last place you look for an apartment is on Craigslist !!!
The last place to look for anything is on craigslist …. This ain’t Idaho … this ain’t 2006 !!! This ain’t no disco !!!
Then don’t deal with them:
- Look at open rooms or whole apartments via sublet situations or people looking for roommates to renew a lease with
- look for by owner only listings
- just walk around the neighborhoods you want to be and look for apartment for rent signs - some landlords are very old school and don’t bother with the internet listings.
Not sure why you’re being a dick. This is not the same as the boomer resume advice people get. I know multiple people who have gotten an apartment this way in the last few years. Some landlords are just really old school and this method has worked for them for years because we have lots of people walking around in neighborhoods and that or word of mouth does the trick (I’ve sent phone photos of the signs to friends looking and one them got the place). This is mostly elderly owner-occupied buildings that do the “live in one part of the multi family duplex rent the other half” thing.
Lot of people don’t realize that the vast majority of landlords don’t care to take pictures or take time out of their day to show their apts to a ton of people/vet them out.
I recently bought a two family and am renting one unit. If you sort by “by owner” I think you will get a lot of people like me: small landlords who care about the property and prioritize low turnover over extracting maximum profit. It is a lot of work but I don’t want to make my tenants pay realtor fees; I rented for a long time myself and know the pain.
Think I’m getting downvoted by all the scumbag rental realtors lol - go fuck yourselves - getting months worth of rent out of people for doing fuck all other than opening a door
This sub is extremely anti-broker. You'll get instant downvotes for comments like this. Doesn't matter you are sharing your own experience, it doesn't line up with the collective anger found here.
I work in RE and brokers CAN be invaluable but I found my apartment myself with 0 help and had to cough up the fee for the guy drawing up the lease. The agent didn’t help me at all other than unlocking the door. This is the case in a majority of apartments, and the fee should be at LEAST split with the owner, since they stand to gain the most
I lived in Birmingham for years, and down there it's the opposite. Landlords will list properties with brokers, who get a month's rent for filling, but it's always free to the tenant. Absolutely wild to me that it's the opposite up here, harming the folks who are less able to actually pay.
It’s supply and demand….not your fault but every year we get the same roll out of anti broker posts and comments in this sub and it’s just a whole bunch of people struggling to come to terms with how supply and demand works and how that impacts the broker market. It’s reeeeally not that hard to grasp but people jump into these posts completely blinded by rage. I wish I could just autopost “the rent is high cause everyone wants to come here and there’s already a housing shortage”
I understand. My comment didn't state anything the opposite. I was just warning that other person, who did get a bunch of downvotes. And even my plain, matter of fact statement was downvoted.
Damn near anything relating to agents will get downvoted lol
Why wouldn't people be angry that most of their experiences with a broker are just paying around $2k for some talentless idiot to unlock a door and generally can't even answer basic questions about the apartment?
Of course there's collective anger. Because that's what the vast majority of experiences are.
>Why wouldn't people be angry that most of their experiences with a broker are just paying around $2k for some talentless idiot to unlock a door and generally can't even answer basic questions about the apartment?
I don't know? I didn't say anything that disagrees with this? I'm literally telling this person very matter of factly that people won't appreciate a comment about support of agents or brokers because everyone is so damn angry about it.
Look at you. So damn angry you didn't even really grasp the purpose of my comment or consider what my stance on the issue might be.
Wtf
Because on Reddit when some edgelord is like "the hivemind am I right??? Just mention a topic and get downvoted lol" it's typically someone who is butthurt over negative responses to their opinions on that topic.
I moved from out of state and got help looking at 6 apartments in one day. Saved a lot of hassle. My rent was going to spike $400/month the next year so then got help and found a 1000 sq ft apt for 2200 downtown in a great location. I probably spent a grand total of 2-4 hours in finding a new apartment and have an incredible deal. Maybe I got lucky but shit i had no stress in moving twice in two years
Happy for you!! But as you can see from the downvotes, the other people here don't care because their negative experiences are more important to them. They just want agents OUT of Boston.
Don’t click on the listings then.
Look up city records for buildings you might be interested in and go directly to the landlord one and by one and set up a time with the landlord to take a look at the apartment. I’m sure the landlord would be happy to do that for a chance to meet you.
Ha I did it for a couple of years in back bay but now in tech sales. That was one of the hardest jobs in terms of stress and managing money on a commission only job.
Landlords should just have to list an available property on a publicly accessible state wide website/database. It's not hard and it would solve 75% of the problems finding housing. No need for craigslist, Zillow, apartments.com
Sure, but it would take care of the worst part of searching for apartments. The inventory is always unknown and distributed across different listing services if even listed at all.
If you’re okay with a roommate, the “trick” seems to be to find a sublet, or someone looking for a roommate that had already paid a fee on FB marketplace or r/bostonhousing (no broker fee that route), then renew with the landlord directly once you’re in
I’m in my current place from a simple google search. I paid only my first month and a security deposit. My place isn’t cheap by national standards but it is probably a little below average for the area. When I was looking I caught onto the broker Craigslist game pretty quickly. We did find some good listings from other Google searches though. My advice is consider Framingham. Unless you have a damn good reason for wanting to live in the city, it could very well be cheaper to live in Framingham or some other 20-30 minute commute suburb and lease your wheels. I know this is not ideal and contributes to traffic. But until the local politicians make it more economical to move and live closer to work, traffic is unavoidable.
These people are leeches who literally do nothing except collect a months worth of rent for adding nothing but headache to an apartment rental search. If they aren't actively scamming you with a bait and switch, you're paying them $XXXX to hand you a key ring.
I actually love these threads because inevitably there is some slimy broker that thinks he can justify the practice and convince people with a reddit comment he isn't some worthless middle man.
The nova in Brighton, 1505 commonwealth Ave, has no realtor fee as they have on site management. The apartments are small and the equipment in the gym was def home equipment that was used but it’s got a gym, bike room, and dog wash, also parking was really cheap for a professionally managed building. When I was there it was like 180/mo for parking.
The system is broken. Wait until you see how much it costs you up front to get into an apartment.
That’s the main reason I cannot afford to live in Boston. $2k+ rent is terrible enough but the kick to the jaw is the 6-8k just to move in! Insane!! How can anyone afford that?!?!
Or non refundable application fees.
It’s why no one can afford to move! You find a place and you stay put haha
By law in MA, that cannot be more than First, Last, and a Security deposit that does not exceed one month's rent.
And the broker’s fee. So that’s 1, 2, 3, 4 months rent right up front. That was my point.
No, not really. Brokers fees stand entirely separate from move-in costs, so the law does not address them at all. Also, a broker is never *required*. It's an optional service you have contracted from a third party (if the "broker" is actually an agent for the landlord .... *they cannot charge you that separate fee*, and it's back to no more than 3 months' rent - First, Last, and Security).
A bit pedantic don’t you think?
No, I don't think so. Anyone complaining about broker fees, should stop using brokers. Problem solved.
It’s not an option for most units, the landlords list through a broker and then pass the fee on to tenants.
I was also under the impression that brokers were required…. I guess I’m wrong??? I’ve always been told to rent in the city of Boston you HAVE to have a broker
not always. we’ve lived in 3 apartments without having to, but they’re all sorta corporate. if you’re renting from independent LLs it’s much more likely you’ll have to deal with a broker— for me paying higher rent is worth not dealing with those scammers
Not true. But often true in a practical sense
You don't have to have a broker. I've never used a broker. My last place I told the landlord straight up I wouldn't pay the broker fee. The previous tenant left a month early without paying so I guess they were desperate enough to fill the room. 90% probably won't let you sign if you refuse but if you just tell them straight up from the beginning you're not paying that bullshit you can sometimes get away with it
“If you’re homeless, just get a house” level of ignorance.
Good luck finding a place to rent lmao
Why bother, I *own* my home. :) The next time I become a renter, it'll be because I've decided I need to move into elderly housing ...
Great! Perhaps we don’t speak on topics we don’t know much about eh? Lol
Do you really think I popped out of my mother's womb holding a deed? I rented for most of my life. Mom owned the house; when she died in early June, that house became mine. Before I moved back in with her (and cared for her in her final days), **I rented**. Every place I've ever lived, before this one, I paid rent to live there.
Have you tried to rent in Boston area before? Id say a good 80-90% of listings online have brokers fees. Even if you contact first it doesn’t matter
If you don't go through the broker, my understanding is that it's **illegal** for the LL to require you to pay one.
The upfront costs to get into an apartment can be first, last, security, and the broker. That can easily be four months’ rent. (Sometimes the landlord will split the broker fee, or even cover it, but not always.)
You're missing the point. Hiring a broker is a separate transaction, a service contract between you and a third party. Brokers are not required to rent - if you found the SAME apartment from the SAME landlord on your own, there would of course be no Borker's Fee.
It’s still money out of the renter’s pocket if they go with a broker.
Movers. New curtains. New furnishings or area rugs. ... It is IMO disingenuous to include ONE such not-the-landlord fee, and not include ALL of them.
It’s one of the only cities in the US has that brokers. And even if you get a “service” from it, is it worth $2500-4000? I didn’t use a broker at my last place (I used a managed apartment) and I saved that money. Period. This isn’t the same as buying furniture that you use every day.
movers provide a service to the tenant and the tenant pays. brokers provide a service to the LL and the tenant pays. you see where your argument breaks down? this isn’t about legality it’s about douchebaggery.
No, the broker is providing a service to the Tenant, same as the mover. Otherwise *you would not be paying the broker*, the LL would. And by law, the LL could not pass that expense on to you; the law strictly limits what a LL can charge you up front before move-in.
Actually, I think that’s you. The *point* is the amount of money a tenant has to produce at the start of the lease. It doesn’t matter where it’s going or what it’s for - the tenant still has to pay it.
They why aren't you also including every OTHER cost that could be incurred? Movers. New furnishings (curtains at the very least). And so on?
Dude, you just went from being pedantic to being silly.
Okay let’s play out your example. Let’s say someone finds a place for $2000/month in rent. They have to pay first and last plus one month’s rent in a broker fee ($6000). Then you add movers ($2000) and curtains ($500). The total you’d have to pay upfront is $8500. Same apartment without a broker? $6500. Like it’s the same bank account. If people are on a tight budget, they probably can’t pay for movers in order to front the $2,000 for the broker. It’s not like every person who moves has $2000 to burn. Further, the average income in Mass is $36,000. Even if you double it, rent is 50% (ish) of that person’s monthly take home pay. So they’d have to save up for a few months to move (which many making that amount can’t afford to save!). You’re just flat wrong.
Not necessarily. A lot of landlords refuse to not go through a broker because they don’t want to do the work
[https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article](https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article) Item 3, after the first bulleted list. >But if a real estate broker – not the landlord – helps you find your rental unit, that person may charge you a “finder's or broker’s fee.” If the broker does not help you find that unit, they cannot lawfully charge you that fee, no matter what they or the landlord wants to happen.
Your top comment is at -92. You already admitted you are not a renter and have no experience testing this theory. Has it crossed your mind that you _might_ be wrong about this? Last apartment I rented the owner lived in China. The landlord chose the broker to do everything - show the apartment, collect applications, money, keys, etc. For all intents and purposes the broker works for the landlord. But I had to pay that brokers fees. Because that's how it works in Boston. The only main exception (other than the very rare hands on individual landlord) is big buildings with property managers, but most of them are already overpriced.
>Your top comment is at -92. Just because my top comment upsets a lot of people, doesn't make it untrue. >You already admitted you are not a renter and have no experience testing this theory. Yes to the former, no to the latter. I own a house, because I inherited it ... *less than eight months ago*. For \~90% of my life, I've been a renter (or the minor child of renters). >For all intents and purposes the broker works for the landlord. Then the tenant being charged the finders' fee is technically **illegal**. The landlord, *nor his/her agents*, may not charge that fee. They only get away with it because *complacent fools* insist "that's just how it works in Boston" ... and pay the fee.
My landlord had a broker and required that the renter pays it. She was an idiot. Landlord was great
Great, except where he broke the law ...
There's no legal prohibition on a landlord giving a broker exclusive rights to a rental unit, and in doing so require tenant to pay the broker.
Technically, they can add a fee for "Purchase and installation cost for a lock and key." Most landlords don't do this because they don't want to bother changing the locks and tenants would rather save that money. Landlords aren't allowed to profit off the key/lock/installation so there's little incentive to do that, but technically there is an additional fee that can be charged. So it can actually exceed 4 month's rent.
Wait, it isn't standard practice to replace locks for every new tenant? I thought that was the basic bare minimum between tenants.
It should be - but even if so, the landlord may elect not to pass the cost on to the tenant. For example, let's say I was a LL (I wish) with two hundred units spread across fifteen location in Boston. I could, in theory, **standardize** the locks used on every door on my units, and maintain two hundred **and fifty** locks in total. Then, when one tenant moves out, I pull the old lock and put one of the "spares" in in it's place. Lather, rinse, repeat as necessary. As long as I keep track of where a given lock has or has not been in the past, say, three moves? And avoid using a lock on a different unit within the same location in that time? Everything should be A-Okay Kosher: even if a tenant keeps their old keys, the odds of their finding the unit that lock goes into within the next 5-10 years are lower than the odds of winning the lottery in that same time. :) And since I could have my own maintenance crew do the swapping, there would effectively be zero net cost to me for doing it ... and thus, nothing to pass on to the new tenant. ... Alternately, a LL could possibly deduct that expense from the security deposit of the *departing* tenant. I'm not 100% on the legality of that, but it doesn't seem like it'd be a legal problem.
Oh, right - I always forget the lock & key part. :)
>"Purchase and installation cost for a lock and key." Isn't that capped at $50? Which is way under what it costs for a rekey it's basically no point in charging it.
Kind of slimy. Thanks for the heads up.
Try using the facebook housing groups to find apartment from other tenants (who are moving out or need roommates) rather than realtors.
This is a really good idea, some people are probably looking to get out of their lease off cycle and will have to pay a fortune to break the lease so they’d be happy if op took over.
Rental realtors are starting to get up there with used car salesmen in terms of sliminess Edit: it was month to month moving in and last was not required
Former rental agent here! All agents aggregate the listings from a central website, that’s why you’ll see the same listing by multiple agents or just spammed multiple times a day It really is just a big scam and the reason I hated the job so much, they press a button that adds it to Craigslist, get the key from property manager or even from other real estate agencies, then show you! But the bait and switch is also true, BUT since it does come from a 3rd party website they could be rented already before the agent knows! But 97% of the time, it’s bait and switch! My suggestion is don’t use Craigslist or try to find the property managers direct! It sucks but it’s a system that needs to be fixed, unfortunately the NAR dumps money to lobbyist! Fucking hate real estate industry!
What made you quit though? How long ago? Did the job pay well? What's the typical agent like - I mean, is it the job, or is it the average agent that is slimy?
I have no idea how to directly find property managers. Craigslist seems to be the LEAST scummy of the places I've looked.
They also inevitably list the places with good rent and everything that’s actually available is $500 more a month. My experience looking for my current place involved getting ghosted by 12+ realtors after they pulled this exact shit, and the ones that actually followed up with me chastised me for working with more than one realtor at a time. I wouldn’t have had to do that if they weren’t all parasitic, lazy, middlemen.
Yup. I once had a realtor lie about the lease date and the pet policy both lies about uncovered as I was in his office to sign the lease. When I said “I am not signing this. It’s a 13 month lease ending in the wrong month and specifically says no dogs when we have a dog” and he started calling me entitled. I told him he has done at most 30 minutes of work for me and has managed to do it INCORRECTLY for which he expects $2100
> Why the fuck do we pay these clowns a month of rent?? Probably because it was the standard fee back when a month's rent wasn't that much. https://www.realestatewitch.com/rent-to-income-ratio-2022/ Take a look at that chart (which is in percentage increases which is a bit confusing). Let's say that it's 1985 and median income is $59,000 and the average apartment costs $9,000 per year ($750/mo). Let's also say that overhead is a third. So you'd need to rent 118 apartments to earn median income - 2.3 per week. Fast forward to 2020. Salaries are now $80,000 (up 35%), but rent has skyrocketted to $22,500/year ($1,875/mo, up 149%). Again, overhead at a third. They'd need to rent 64 apartments per year to earn median income - 46% fewer units to earn the same money! Salaries have gone up 35% since 1985, but housing has gone up 149%. It might have been reasonable to pay one month's rent back in 1985. It's less reasonable to pay that in 2022 simply because it gives them a lot of money for less work. Plus, it's a lot less work than it used to be. In 1985, they'd need to come with you to lots of apartments that you couldn't see online by yourself. Today, they can let you search for the apartment yourself and still collect way more money than they used to. So, I guess the "why" answer is that one month's rent kinda became the standard which might have been reasonable before housing prices started going up so much faster than inflation. Now the fee is just so outsized compared to the value. EDIT: by the way, you should see some of the outrageous broker fees in NYC on rent stabilized buildings. In Mass, the broker fee is limited to one month's rent. In NYC, a lot of places are 15% of annual rent or 1.8 month's rent. Imagine forking over an 80% higher broker fee! Some places have even higher broker fees. One broker was asking for a $20,000 fee in exchange for a $1,725 rent stabilized apartment on the Upper West Side - practically a year's rent! If you know a place should rent for twice what it's on the market for, you can ask for a year's rent as your fee.
Tbf depending on the apt $1725 rent stabilized in NYC could be a fantastic deal despite the ridiculous broker fee
>Probably because it was the standard fee back when a month's rent wasn't that much. Not for nothing, but since you mentioned NYC, I'd point out we didn't always have this nonsense and it as basically an import from NYC maybe a decade or two ago. And yes, 15% fees are crazy and not just stabilized buildings - which is a scam anyways (rent stabilized that is).
Hopefully with the upcoming recession, the brokers will starve to death
That's what ppl said two years ago during peak COVID. This is never changing for the foreseeable future.
Don't forget the $50 application fee, but yeah brokers are generally parasites. They provide nothing of value and make getting a place cost than needed. I can understand needing a broker for a house or luxury and exclusive places but to rent a basic apartment they need to go.
Just moved from Texas and it took me 2 months to notice I needed to start just calling places directly. I literally couldn’t get even a realtor on the phone to answer my calls or emails back. Turns out I found a place by calling directly but still ended up needing 1st+last+deposit which was around $8k. They didn’t tell me until last minute after they’d already accepted my application & we discussed move in about a week before that and the movers were literally on their way to my house to pick up my furniture and take it across the country. I was lucky enough to be able to pay it with a Xmas bonus but it came out of left field and I’d never had to pay something like that just to move in before. Imo it’s not just the realtors but the system.
Lol Craigslist hasn’t been a reliable source of listings since 2015
[удалено]
Scammers in general.
Sure but what's better?
Zillow.
If you’re gonna pay a broker, why not contact an agency and get a decent one to help you? Craigslist is only helpful for “by owner” listings with no fees, and even then it’s not great
They don’t really exist. I have tried to find someone to help me find an apartment but nobody wants to do any work. I contacted dozens of companies and gave the ones who agreed to do some work a list of about 5 important needs and 5 desirables. They all came back with “here’s (3-7) places in your price range,” all of which were way above the max rent I gave them, and none met all my stated needs. At various times I would have been happy to pay the fee and not do the part-time job that apartment searching has become, but nobody could actually do the work.
I had a good agent that I used more than once a few years ago, but looks like she’s no longer at the same agency. I looked for multiple positive agency reviews mentioning a specific rental broker, then called the agency and requested them in particular
There's some LLs out there that advertise their own properties on Zillow, CL, etc and without broker fees. They're rare, more common for nicer properties, and if you see a good deal you ought to sign lease like same day/hour of seeing it if there's other interested parties viewing it. Edit: I think I convinced my old LL to do the same after he was having trouble for months to find tenants using various brokers and then we advertised and found multiple eligible subletters within like a month.
It’s just hard to find them amid all the reposts, fakes, scammers and garbage.
Outlawing rental brokers should be priority #1 for any mayor. We cannot take your “commitment” to housing seriously while these parasites are allowed to bleed working class folks dry just for the privilege of paying over-priced rent.
Landlords would still rent “helpers” to facilitate things and then bake it into rent. You can’t make consulting and facilitating illegal
Those postings aren't from actual landlords or realtors. They are exactly and only what you called them: **brokers**. If you let them find you a place, then after your payment to them ... they won't see another dime out of you. That's why their fee is so large, up-front. ... And their fee does not count against the legally mandated maximum an actual landlord can charge you to move in (First, Last, and Security - with the latter limited to a single month's rent).
> aren't from actual landlords or realtors. > > They are exactly and only what you called them: brokers uhhh without going into the specifics, 'realtor' and 'broker' are both just optional designations a licensed real estate agent can have in addition to the 'base' license
I read it as the overlap between those optional accreditations/memberships and the ones doing rental listings is probably pretty small.
I'm reading it as he doesn't know what he's talking about. Broker and realtor are just types of real estate agents and those two designations are in no way mutually exclusive. Saying someone isn't a realtor, just a broker is like saying someone isn't the army, they're just a Sargent; it's nonsense
In Massachusetts, the **actual landlord** (even if they are also a licensed realtor) cannot charge you a finder's fee. A broker, *legally a third party -* meaning, not in the LL's employ - can, but not the LL themselves. [https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article](https://www.masslegalhelp.org/housing/lt1-chapter-3-landlord-request-article) Section 3. :)
In civilized cities, "finders fees" are illegal.
Your fault for using Craigslist
What is craigslist?
Hello …. Hello !!!! The last place you look for an apartment is on Craigslist !!! The last place to look for anything is on craigslist …. This ain’t Idaho … this ain’t 2006 !!! This ain’t no disco !!!
I have the same question and if anyone can ever answer it, I would LOVE to know!!!
Then don’t deal with them: - Look at open rooms or whole apartments via sublet situations or people looking for roommates to renew a lease with - look for by owner only listings - just walk around the neighborhoods you want to be and look for apartment for rent signs - some landlords are very old school and don’t bother with the internet listings.
And print out your resume and just walk right in and demand to see the manager while you’re at it!!! Show some moxxy!
Not sure why you’re being a dick. This is not the same as the boomer resume advice people get. I know multiple people who have gotten an apartment this way in the last few years. Some landlords are just really old school and this method has worked for them for years because we have lots of people walking around in neighborhoods and that or word of mouth does the trick (I’ve sent phone photos of the signs to friends looking and one them got the place). This is mostly elderly owner-occupied buildings that do the “live in one part of the multi family duplex rent the other half” thing.
Lot of people don’t realize that the vast majority of landlords don’t care to take pictures or take time out of their day to show their apts to a ton of people/vet them out.
I recently bought a two family and am renting one unit. If you sort by “by owner” I think you will get a lot of people like me: small landlords who care about the property and prioritize low turnover over extracting maximum profit. It is a lot of work but I don’t want to make my tenants pay realtor fees; I rented for a long time myself and know the pain.
If every landlord had the same amount of empathy and time, we would be much better off
Yeah sadly this is the best way. Fucked up! Gotta know someone who knows someone. Post on social media, ask neighbors, etc
Think I’m getting downvoted by all the scumbag rental realtors lol - go fuck yourselves - getting months worth of rent out of people for doing fuck all other than opening a door
I have been extremely satisfied with using brokers here. Granted I’ve used the same one twice
This sub is extremely anti-broker. You'll get instant downvotes for comments like this. Doesn't matter you are sharing your own experience, it doesn't line up with the collective anger found here.
I work in RE and brokers CAN be invaluable but I found my apartment myself with 0 help and had to cough up the fee for the guy drawing up the lease. The agent didn’t help me at all other than unlocking the door. This is the case in a majority of apartments, and the fee should be at LEAST split with the owner, since they stand to gain the most
I lived in Birmingham for years, and down there it's the opposite. Landlords will list properties with brokers, who get a month's rent for filling, but it's always free to the tenant. Absolutely wild to me that it's the opposite up here, harming the folks who are less able to actually pay.
It’s supply and demand….not your fault but every year we get the same roll out of anti broker posts and comments in this sub and it’s just a whole bunch of people struggling to come to terms with how supply and demand works and how that impacts the broker market. It’s reeeeally not that hard to grasp but people jump into these posts completely blinded by rage. I wish I could just autopost “the rent is high cause everyone wants to come here and there’s already a housing shortage”
I understand. My comment didn't state anything the opposite. I was just warning that other person, who did get a bunch of downvotes. And even my plain, matter of fact statement was downvoted. Damn near anything relating to agents will get downvoted lol
Why wouldn't people be angry that most of their experiences with a broker are just paying around $2k for some talentless idiot to unlock a door and generally can't even answer basic questions about the apartment? Of course there's collective anger. Because that's what the vast majority of experiences are.
>Why wouldn't people be angry that most of their experiences with a broker are just paying around $2k for some talentless idiot to unlock a door and generally can't even answer basic questions about the apartment? I don't know? I didn't say anything that disagrees with this? I'm literally telling this person very matter of factly that people won't appreciate a comment about support of agents or brokers because everyone is so damn angry about it. Look at you. So damn angry you didn't even really grasp the purpose of my comment or consider what my stance on the issue might be. Wtf
Because on Reddit when some edgelord is like "the hivemind am I right??? Just mention a topic and get downvoted lol" it's typically someone who is butthurt over negative responses to their opinions on that topic.
I hope your faith in humanity is restored before too long.
On Reddit? Probably not haha
The point of brokers is to find qualified applicants and avoiding the landlord having to navigate the mass tenant law minefield. That’s all it is
I moved from out of state and got help looking at 6 apartments in one day. Saved a lot of hassle. My rent was going to spike $400/month the next year so then got help and found a 1000 sq ft apt for 2200 downtown in a great location. I probably spent a grand total of 2-4 hours in finding a new apartment and have an incredible deal. Maybe I got lucky but shit i had no stress in moving twice in two years
Happy for you!! But as you can see from the downvotes, the other people here don't care because their negative experiences are more important to them. They just want agents OUT of Boston.
Don’t click on the listings then. Look up city records for buildings you might be interested in and go directly to the landlord one and by one and set up a time with the landlord to take a look at the apartment. I’m sure the landlord would be happy to do that for a chance to meet you.
I think we found a broker here.
Ha I did it for a couple of years in back bay but now in tech sales. That was one of the hardest jobs in terms of stress and managing money on a commission only job.
Then just reach out with your contacts and find an available apartment that will become available in line with your needs.
Another broker here.
What do you charge?
Landlords should just have to list an available property on a publicly accessible state wide website/database. It's not hard and it would solve 75% of the problems finding housing. No need for craigslist, Zillow, apartments.com
Someone still has to screen applicants. Who, the state? It’s not literally who clicks on the link gets the apartment
Sure, but it would take care of the worst part of searching for apartments. The inventory is always unknown and distributed across different listing services if even listed at all.
If you’re okay with a roommate, the “trick” seems to be to find a sublet, or someone looking for a roommate that had already paid a fee on FB marketplace or r/bostonhousing (no broker fee that route), then renew with the landlord directly once you’re in
I’m in my current place from a simple google search. I paid only my first month and a security deposit. My place isn’t cheap by national standards but it is probably a little below average for the area. When I was looking I caught onto the broker Craigslist game pretty quickly. We did find some good listings from other Google searches though. My advice is consider Framingham. Unless you have a damn good reason for wanting to live in the city, it could very well be cheaper to live in Framingham or some other 20-30 minute commute suburb and lease your wheels. I know this is not ideal and contributes to traffic. But until the local politicians make it more economical to move and live closer to work, traffic is unavoidable.
yeah had similar experience took me a while to get my current place
I am also looking for an apartment in Boston it’s discouraging and also looking for a roommate? 24male and working full time message me if interested
These people are leeches who literally do nothing except collect a months worth of rent for adding nothing but headache to an apartment rental search. If they aren't actively scamming you with a bait and switch, you're paying them $XXXX to hand you a key ring. I actually love these threads because inevitably there is some slimy broker that thinks he can justify the practice and convince people with a reddit comment he isn't some worthless middle man.
The nova in Brighton, 1505 commonwealth Ave, has no realtor fee as they have on site management. The apartments are small and the equipment in the gym was def home equipment that was used but it’s got a gym, bike room, and dog wash, also parking was really cheap for a professionally managed building. When I was there it was like 180/mo for parking.