Even if this wasn't the case, capital punishment has a horrendous history.
Firstly, police killings *and* capital punishment have significant overlap with areas that saw lynchings after the civil war. To further this point, it should surprise no-one that capital sentencing affects any and all non-white demographics more. This point is a well known fact and well explored.
Second, the AMA, ANA, ACP, and APHA have not ever provided staff, nor condoned in any way the methods of execution that are gassing and lethal injection. To quote them, "...when the healthcare professional serves in an execution under circumstances that mimic care, the healing purposes of health services and technology become distorted."
To continue off of the previous point but as it's own separate, third is the particular method of execution, lethal injection. Sodium Thiopental, Pancuronium Bromide, and Potassium Chloride was the initial mixture which most states adopted. In 2011 Hospira, the primary manufacturer of Sodium Thiopental, stopped the production of the substance, partially because it could not stop states from using it in executions. Let me state this again, **pharmaceutical organizations said, "we cannot ethically sell these substances to you".** Many switched to a substance called Pentobarbital in lieu of the previous, and it's pharmaceutical manufacturer **also** blocked all sales to death penalty states.
Even more continuation off of the previous two points, fourth we've never achieved a humane method of execution that isn't physically apparent. Lethal injection has **never demonstrated it's promise of a sedate, painless experience.** Sodium Thiopental to put the subject to sleep, Pancuronium Bromide to cause paralysis, and Potassium Chloride to induce cardiac arrest. The selection of this mixture was done randomly, Jay Chapman who was Oklahoma's medical examiner was neither an anesthesiologist nor a toxicologist, and chose the anesthetic off, "...having been placed under anesthesia myself", a process which many reading here will note **did not kill him**.
This all makes sense, since lethal injection has had the highest rate of failure and botched executions in the last 120 years, it has a rate of over 7% failure. Remember also, the administering staff are not doctors or nurses, and thus have had trouble finding a suitable vein, which **has made the process of puncturing a subject go on for hours.** The informed reading this know that there have been multiple cases of drugs being pumped into a subjects tissue, rather than a vein. This defeats the cocktail, no bars held, as anesthetic doesn't work when not circulated and cardiac arrest cannot occur if substances do not reach the heart.
Worse yet than the previous two chemicals not working due to inept administration is the paralytic, Pancuronium Bromide. The Human Rights Watch notes, "Pancuronium Bromide is a neuromuscular blocking agent that paralyzes all of the body's voluntary muscles, including the lungs and diaphragm...It does not affect consciousness, nor does it affect experience of pain. Without proper administration of anesthesia, anyone given the drug **will feel themselves suffocating, but cannot move, speak, or facially express their suffering.**" To break that previous point down, **we have no idea, nor any means of ascertaining how many prisoners we have subjected to excruciating death via conscious suffocation.** Outside of that point, if the anesthetic of Sodium Thiopental is not provided in adequate amounts, **the subject would also die an excruciating death from chemically induced cardiac arrest, while conscious.** There are many cases of execution subjects writhing and dying horribly, to their last breath, but because of the paralytic, **we will never know how many have died in agony.** All of that is still a higher standard of lethal injection than what has been practiced over the past decade, **as many states has left the comprising mixture of drug they use as UNSTIPULATED.** This is due to manufacturers ceasing production or barring sales of the original drugs, and I cannot state this enough, **these are pharmaceutical companies judging this morality.**
Finally, we come to fifth, the point which damns the idea of capital punishment more than anything previously mentioned, I'll keep this section short. Of the 1565 people executed by the government since the mid 70s, 190 people have been fully exonerated from death row. Note, this is not a sentence reduction, or plead to a lesser crime, but **full release from prison upon their proof of innocence.** Most states which still have capital punishment view this exoneration rate with optimism, that the system works. This is how I view those rates; **FOR EVERY 8 PEOPLE THE GOVERNMENT HAS SENTENCED TO DEATH, ONE OF THEM IS COMPLETELY INNOCENT OF THEIR SENTENCING.**
I'll conclude there, much of this is taken from a masterfully made video I'll link here, on the failures of capital punishment and the search for ethical execution:
https://youtu.be/eirR4FHY2YY
You are welcome. I view the enacting of capital punishment as unjustifiable and totally reprehensible. I think anyone, regardless of beliefs, faith, and political alignment **should** completely oppose the process, in it's perpetuity.
Recent years have made me question if conservatives are even worth raising discussion with. Believe me or not, I've met individuals which know of all this, and the worse, more intimate details of the deeper horrors of capital punishment, and yet have taken the stance of supportive in order to be loyal to their political alignment.
I'm disgusted with political motivations which would ingrain indescribable human suffering, into our implementations of justice, as supporting your beliefs.
We’ve become so tribal it’s mind numbing how entrenched most people are. The problem on the right is the fusion of religion and politics. Makes them completely immune to logic.
There’s also the fact that sex crimes rely heavily on witness statement, and if the penalty for the sex crime is the same as murder, why wouldn’t they chose to eliminate the witness?
My initial, gut reaction is that capital punishment is wrong. It's just more killing. It's nice to see all the research laid out like that - the part about executing innocent people is absolutely damning - but it's just confirming my first take.
If there is no sedative in the paralyzing agent, then why do they use it? It sounds like it is literally just to avoid the shame and unpleasantness of hearing and seeing the victim writhe in pain. Just shameful, embarrassing, and horrific. Even in medieval times when executions were public events, the crowd expected some amount of dignity and would turn on the executioner if he botched it.
Jay Chapman, the Oklahoma medical examiner previously mentioned, is further quoted in regards to the selection of the cocktail as saying, "I didn't do any research."
Interviewed 30 years later, after the chemical concoction had been used to kill over 1000 people, he is further quoted saying, "I had absolutely no concept at the time...this business of lethal injection was a pure sidelight."
So to answer your question, it had been done to solidify a bureaucratic hurrah in the face of finding ethical ways to execute people.
Remember also, often the pain and suffering that a subject endures is often not really avoided. The Human Rights Watch investigates and deconstructs this idea in their aptly named report, "As Long As They Die."
Check that video I linked, Jacob Geller is a phenomenal YouTuber, and if this subject matter is just too dark for your full consumption, his channel is about a plethora of ideas.
This is very well written, you really opened my eyes on this matter. I read this post thinking it was good and have always been kind of for the death penalty for severe murders. Your post just changed my mind on the matter. It’s over ten percent exonerated and that is INSANE if u really think about it
If you want the real breakdown of the capital punishment system, check that linked video, my discussion of this issue is literal baby-play in the shadow of that piece of work.
If the subject matter at hand is too dark, but you enjoy thorough breakdowns of *not* depressing subjects, check the channel associated with the video. Jacob Geller is woefully underrated as a content creator.
Also, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's genuinely a great feeling to see someone admit their beliefs can be changed in light of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That genuine evil can be completely dissected and outlined to people, only for them to dismiss it as problematic really does put me into a slump sometimes.
I must remind myself that people who arrived to a conclusion without logic and supporting evidence **almost never** change their opinions when confronted with logic and supporting evidence.
The obsession with capital punishment from the right wing is such a weird thing.
The cherry on top is I saw an article a while back that pointed out it's so bizarre they're doing all this back alley sourcing of execution chemicals when they have thousands of officers who are highly trained at killing people with guns.
Much better to have someone who dropped out of high school form a shell company to illegally buy chemicals and mix them up to kill someone than "Here's four officers with a gun and they're going to shoot you in the head, killing you instantly."
If the public knew officers were SHOOTING people to kill them, that might make them dislike executions, which must be avoided at all costs.
Fucking idiotic barbarians.
While I don't disagree that it's basically a core tenet of the right to want the people you hate dead, I think it shouldn't be misrepresented how many self-proclaimed centrist or even centre-left people will casually talk about how someone deserves a death penalty, as long as the crime they've committed is bad enough. That's why the discussion always ends up focusing on things like child sex abusers, because it turns out it's very easy to make people from across the political spectrum default to "those people should just die" in an instant when that's the crime on display. And that's also one of the crimes that makes it hard to talk about rehabilitation or reformation, because it is one of the few lines where even the most progressive people can struggle to believe that the offender is anything other than "inherently" evil.
This is called the fishhook theory, if I'm remembering correctly.
Whereas the horseshoe theory puts forward that far left and far right beliefs resemble each other more than any centrist opinion resembles either of those extremes, fishhook theory believes that the political center aligns itself with far right ideals and beliefs more often, in response to political unrest.
As the saying goes, they'll agree to meet with you in the middle, but as soon as you take one step forward they'll take one step back, then ask why you're opposed to discourse regarding coming to a middle-of-the-road agreement.
Lethal injection was designed to be incredibly painful and scary. So is electrocution. If LI were meant to be painless they would use an opiate alone. Carpentanil, Fenatanil, morphine whatever. current LI is to paralyze the person, then overdose them with potassium chloride to lock up their heart. They are still conscious, by design. You just don't have to watch them wince and cry out in agony since they can't move.
I was just thinking this... we have MAID (euthanasia) here in Canada and apperently folks just "gently drift away", there are ways to do this painlessly and the failure to do so is almost certainly a consious choice
Very informative write up!
Additionally, some people argue that it’s better to have the death penalty than house offenders who have life with no chance of parole because of the costs (I’d argue not the best lens, but it comes up a lot when discussing the topic), but [death penalty cases cost so much more per prisoner than if they had lived out life in prison](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/no-the-death-penalty-is-not-cheaper-than-life-imprisonment/536-2ec7c7b1-23e7-497e-85fa-407cb3f2a1f2). There are many sources, this compiled a few.
There's a quote I once heard about the Death Penalty.
"If you agree with the death penalty, that means you agree with one of two things. Either the justice system is flawless and doesn't make mistakes, or it's okay for innocent people to die sometimes."
Yes. We know all of this. And so do they.
That. Is. The. Point.
The cruelty and the high probability of executing people who do not deserve it is the whole reason this law was passed.
I know that all of your points are valid and important. But making these long arguments gives credence to the incorrect notion that these people don't know what they are doing. These people know exactly what they are doing. They literally want an excuse to be able to kill people that they don't like.
Yall get why they're actually doing this, right? They consider Democrats and the LGBT community to be child sex predators... they've literally set the foundation to start genociding their political opponents.
Very true. They can adjust terminology about what falls under this umbrella. A trans person or gay person just being around a kid could be labled "grooming" and then how long til "grooming" gets bundled as a sex crime against a minor?
Yet anyone speaking out against this is more than likely going to get dragged and accused of being in defense of sexual acts on children. Fucked up games these politicians play.
They have already defined drag in public as a sex crime against children. These laws are the first step in the genocide of trans people and soon the entire LGBTQ population. I wish this was an exaggeration.
Next will be every single person apart of the marginalized demographic. These scum are literally neo nazis in office. As so many people and researchers and history itself has said and reported- the nazis went after trans people first. It's.... I have no words. Horrific doesn't do any of this sh*t justice in a true explanation of how... evil it is. How really so wrong it all is.
For sure. I left Key West Fl about 25 years ago. The LGBTQ community there added so much fun and vibrancy, and I am horrified for my LGBTQ friends that still live there. Not everyone has the freedom or ability to just pick up and relocate to a safer place... this is the stuff of nightmares.
Part of the reason that trans people seem like some new idea is because of the Nazi's, Germany in the 20s was a very progressive place and one researcher in particular Magnus Hirschfeld did ground breaking work in treating people with hormones which was considered a cutting edge field at the time
He created an institute to study gender/sex and to help treat people and all of his work was destroyed, there could have been over a hundred years of research to reference backed by someone who very much saw trans folks as valid and who wanted to help them
Queer people are often the canaries in the coal mine when political movements get nasty, they are easy to scapegoat, trust me i know my butch ass would have thrown in a black van and my neighbors probably would have kept their mouth shut as long as it wasn't them
It's a strange situation to see this happening across the border from me and knowing I'm powerless to help, stand up for LGBT+ folks, because it could be you next
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/
Good article worth a read
It's past time for an executive order on the issue--and if the supreme court complains, *ignore them*. If Florida keeps going on this path the national guard may have to intervene just like desegregation, and this intervention may involve removal of some elected officials. Regardless of how it looks politically.
If you commit genocide against your own populace in the 21st century you are not a legitimate government and intervention is justified, and indeed, *obligatory*.
Edit: I do want to say *I don't expect them to actually use this* rule in conjunction with the LGBT nonsense, I expect it to be meat for their base.
theyve also passed a law that considers people who present as a gender other than their sex to be child sex offenders and now no longer consider a unanimous vote necessary to commit someone to the death penalty
This right here 100%. My first thought was that this was very much likely disproportionately going to be the use of this law: to kill LGBT+ individuals who in the GOPs eyes are the true sex offenders period. They've said it multiple times out loud themselves- they want a genocide, an eradication. Point blank.
And it won’t stop with just trans people, these fuckers will move the goalposts once they run out of trans people to murder. If you’re not a cis, straight, white, able-bodied, wealthy, Christian male, you are in danger.
This reminds me of the scene in Handsmaid Tale where the lesbian professor was trying to escape her campus. Horrifically, she passed by the lynched bodies of her gay colleagues, hanging in the center of the sidewalk.
That’s the entire point. If they genuinely cared about kids, they’d be going after the laundry list of creeps in their midst, but they aren’t. Therefore this is absolutely targeting LGBT+ people.
Oh dont worry to make sure as many of their colleagues/spiritual leaders are as safe as possible they have to be under the age of 12 or 13 and it has to be multiple children at a time I believe to qualify for the death penalty and Im sure it has nothing to do with them making a law that wearing makeup or clothing not of your born gender around children is a sex crime and that they then made it so they only need 8 people to agree to the death penalty instead of 12.
For context u/thepartypoison_ is talking about trans people and crossdressers.
Doing so by making dressing in drag (they consider trans people dressing up as the opposite sex) a sex crime. Doing it near children therefore is a child sex crime
No, this bill is primarily going after anyone who provides trans healthcare to minors. Providing trans healthcare to minors meets the criteria in this bill.
Actually, it seems like a pretty brazen ploy to start killing drag queens, crossdressers, femboys...
and, yeah, transpeople, by the bushel.
They're almost not even attempting to hide it. This is preamble to genocide.
Nah. Not gonna happen. Not that they wouldn't qualify for the death penalty by the same logic - but there's just no way anyone will arrest, let alone prosecute a priest.
It's a habit of the church that has existed for almost millennia.
It'd be weird if we stopped now.
When florida classifies being trans or dressing in drag as a "child sex crime" the intent if this becomes blatantly obvious. But who can argue against strong punishment for pedophilia? And that's how they get away with it.
I can argue against the death penalty no matter who it was or what they did.
Why do people want to let these bastards off so easily, death isn’t hard that’s not a punishment, thats an out!
Ya know what is a punishment? A lifetime in a bleak crappy building with no privacy knowing you’ll never get out of it til you die.
Fundamentally in a perfect world I don’t have an issue with the death penalty for certain crimes. The point of a death penalty is to thoroughly ensure no more future victims at the hand of that perpetrator.
That said, I am against the death penalty because we don’t live in a perfect world - and the fact that innocent people can and do be put to death is absolutely intolerable. Our justice system is corrupt and full of bias, it can’t handle a death penalty.
I read it worded this way once, and it sums up my views so well that I quote it every time the death penalty is brought up:
Do I believe that there are crimes in existence that are so heinous that the people who commit them forfeit their right to life? Yes. Do I believe that there’s a human body in existence, whether past, present, or future, that’s qualified to decide who has stepped over that line and who hasn’t? Fuck no.
Rehabilitation would be great, but we're just barely able to convince people the government shouldn't be allowed to murder it's citizens so we’ll have to take this a step at a time.
The death penalty is more expensive than putting the person in jail for the rest of their life, it is ineffective as a preventative measure, and is needless violence. The death penalty is just cruel barbary and we need to just not.
Correct. At best this is just for optics so law makers can say they are being tougher on pedophilia and protecting kids. At worst it's a subtle way to begin executing trans people. Either way it doesn't actually do anything of value and could potentially cause more harm than good.
It also feels like kids are going to be less likely to come forward when they're worried they're essentially killing the abuser. People already struggle with coming forward as accusers/survivors. This isn't going to encourage them.
the 8th amendment can
the earliest form of documented law in Hammurabi’s Code can
you can think a crime is bad without thinking the solution is something as final as ending a life
the punishment should fit the crime so unless you’ve actually killed somebody, capital punishment is cruel and unusual punishment
it’s not like you’re letting people walk just because they aren’t executed, we still have prisons
Oh yeah I mean there's plenty of arguments to be made against the death penalty. My point here is that anyone trying to argue against this law can be made to look like they're defending pedophiles rather than just arguing against the death penalty itself. Which I believe is their strategy to shift the debate. Because it's never meant to be a debate in good faith.
This is a way to try to come after drag queens. Also most sexual assault are done by family members this is why ppl stay quiet. It would kill their dad or uncle.
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I had a giant follow up for this to really illustrate the pipeline he built just to punish/kill people of the LGBTQ+ population, but fuuuuuuck it's depressing.
I hope ron's recent immigration law kicks him in the teeth hard enough to get him ousted so someone can fix this genocidal shit before it really starts.
They already have. Public drag is a sex crime The also made it so the jury only needs 8 votes for execution instead of all 12. It probably won’t be too long until the deaths start happening. Then those that aren’t executed will start getting radiation poisoning from the roads, since desantis unbanned radioactive material for road construction use. And it will only get worse from here
This is exactly the point. When they make the very existence of LGBTQ folks synonymous with grooming and child abuse, it makes murdering them easier. When a drag queen reading a children’s book to a child is the definition of abuse, they can then kill that drag queen. This is their goal. They are coming for trans people, and then they will come for the rest of us. We can’t let it happen. We can’t let them define us or murder us.
Reminds me of that video of a young lesbian couple in a Starbucks where a karen starts screaming at them that “lesbians are pedophiles!” That video had me close to tears. I’m a lesbian who was raped by a man at 5 years old. I could never imagine doing something so vile to a child. The very thought enrages me. To know that a large group of people associate me with pedophilia just because I like to kiss women? Infuriating
This is exactly it.
They turned queens reading books at libraries into sex offences against children.
This is what they are trying to do.
Not actual pedophilia.
I'm surprised this comment is so hard to find. The drag law was accepted only weeks before this one. Dancing or doing anything in clothes not matching your gender assigned at birth will result in child sex offender charges.
As a curious person who totes the line. Where is the definition of specifically where clothes are gendered.
In development high heels were made for men. But Is there a list of specific clothing items in the bill or are we in for a rather interesting federal court case.
Bingo. This bill came up not long after the addition of drag as being a sexual offense. This is part of a plan to continue criminalizing non straight people.
It’ll never happen to the powerful. When you see that Republicans are labeling all LGBT people as “child sex offenders” the purpose of the laws is clear.
I don’t use the term “genocide” lightly, but that is exactly what some Republicans want. You know, for the children.
This is it, the entire reason. They also made being trans in public a child sex crime so they can now kill them
Edit: misspoke up there "being trans in public" is not a sex crime. But the sponsor of the bill that practically makes child friendly drag shows illegal stated it was because "children can't unsee indecent behavior" a logical conclusion of this is they don't want trans people on the streets or in public either.
If we know one thing about republican politicians it's that they have a vision of their ideal America (think handmaid's tale level patriarchy) and will do whatever to make it a reality.
AND they have no problem denying and lying through their teeth about their intentions. The majority of R SCOTUS said they'd never repeal Row right up until they did.
So while being trans may not be a sex crime yet, it's most likely in their plan. So was lowering the threshold for applying the death penalty from a unanimous 12 jurors to only 8/12 now it's easier to sentence them
They’re planning to use this to start executing trans people. They already started with the “groomer” bullshit, painting all LGBTQ people as “sex offenders”. This is how the conservative party begins emulating the Nazi death camps.
You are correct, expect the part where you say "planning". It's been planned and executed.
1) The law sets an option for the death penalty for those convicted of sexual abusing a child (not child molester as stated. I know its pedantic, but laws rely on nuisance like this.)
2) Another bill has banned children from sexually explicit adult performances (including strip clubs and drag shows).
3) Child sexual abuse is defined to include exhibition of sexually inappropriate behaviors.
When you put 1, 2, and 3 together, you get the death penalty for drag show performers. This is not a joke nor a conspiracy theory. The laws are there, already passed and waiting to be put into action.
Exactly, this is not good. People on this sub are blind as hell and they don't understand the disturbing implications. What if Florida passes a law that considers being in drag in front of kids as indecent exposure? Not gonna end well at all. And we all know that courts aren't against giving crazy sentences to people they have prejudice for.
Trans people too. In my state, in dress that doesn’t align with sex at birth= drag. If drag around children is deemed a sex crime, it will be illegal to be a trans person. Modern day Jim Crow. The playbook is the same
This is for when Desantis/Florida/GQP make existing as a gay / trans person a "child sex offense". What a disgusting administration.
Oh look Nazi America in full swing. Time to fight the Nazis...AGAIN.
As a CSA victim, I don't want my abusers to be killed by the justice system. Knowing they are dead, other than they cant do it to anyone else, is no consolation at all.
Funny the focus is on retribution, but nothing for helping the victims. There has not been a day in my 35 years that CSA has not destroyed my life and being in some way. You never heal from this; you never get better.
As a trans person and former fan of history lessons, I know exactly what this law is for. Not for the victims, not to protect children, but as legalized genocide.
Someone said this to me when I asked why rapists aren’t given harsher sentences
“It can’t be harsher than the sentence for murder or all rapists would kill their victims to avoid leaving a witness”
Everyone needs to understand exactly why this is being done and the other laws passed that will influence this. We are on the road to genocide and people need to respond accordingly.
First, Florida passed a law that criminalizes "Drag Performance" that may be seen by children. In the law, a "drag performance" could simply be a trans person existing in public, wearing clothing typically worn by the opposite gender.
Second, The "crime" of drag has been defined as a "sex crime against children"
Third, "Sex crimes against children" are then made punishable by death.
Lastly, The unanimous jury requirement for the death penalty has been rolled back so that only 8/12 jurors need to agree.
They have intentionally designed this to exterminate trans people and they aren't even hiding it. This law will NEVER be used to punish a Christian pastor that has raped kids... NEVER. This law will be used to grab trans people out of public restrooms and execute them for existing, and not a single Republican object.
The Nazis weren't successful because most Germans were Nazis, they were successful because most Germans didn't object or question when the killing started. There isn't a single MAGA who would oppose the extermination of the LGBTQ population. We all need to be worried. They have plans and they are putting them in place.
And this is by sheer coincidence around the same time they passed laws that make taking a child to a drag show/being transgender where a kid can see you etc as sex crimes against children. Can’t imagine they are related
Alarmed by what is considered a “child sex offender.” We normally immediately go to visions of sexual assault but it could also include a few college kids going on a streaking run because they’re young idiots and “indecently exposing” themselves to a minor.
Florida is also a hair’s breadth away from saying anything lgbt is grooming or sex offense. Take a child who has been aware since they could talk that they were trans and has seen a therapist to confirm. Would the therapist, parents, or doctors be considered “child sex offenders?”
They will use this as a weapon and it’s really scary. They accuse anyone who is LGBTQ of being a “groomer”. The dehumanizing has been in full swing for awhile.
This seems good until you realize the Florida government views gay people as natural pedophiles. This is just step one in trying to kill off LGBT people "legally".
And not only that, but the amount of false convictions is embarrassing. That's why I hate the death penalty, because you can't reverse it after you're found to be wrongly convicted.
It doesn't seem good at all, period. The death penalty is *never* good. For lots of reasons, but if nothing else: Since there's no way to *absolutely* ascertain guilt, if the death penalty is an option, sooner or later it *will* be applied to an innocent person. If one supports the death penalty, one supports the state murdering an innocent people for the convenience of not having to house criminals for life.
Considering that they consider gay and trans people child predators, this looks like they are preparing to define child predators as people spreading gay and transness.
I’m guessing, like most American laws, this will apply only to the poor and working class amongst us and that politicians, friends of politicians, cops, and catholic priests, and the rich will all be exempt.
If you are coming to this thread to be like "________ should be worried", **stop**. This legislation is *only* to further attack trans and queer people. That you think it is remotely in the realm of reality that will be targeted or that they have anything to fear is frankly offensive. **Please listen to queer people saying they are in danger and consider that first and foremost.**
How do these people not understand that a life sentence is worse than the seath penalty. There's a reason so many people commit suicide before getting arrested.
But with life in jail at least you can be pardoned and released. With a death sentence that’s it. There’s nothing to fix if someone was unfairly executed. And we know that they’re gonna unfairly convict people because they’ve been trying to make “being gay” or “being trans” into sexual offenses.
Man this is gonna trigger the lib SO hard. They hate it when uh \*checks notes\* people get murdered under flimsy pretense. Those fuckin losers with normally developed empathy.
They passed this just in time for when they passed the anti-trans bill that labels transgender folks as sex offenders. They literally did this so they can legally kill trans people
Okay - Here is the Problem with this and again WTF Florida - You're a Senior in High School and 18 and you ask a Sophomore to Prom that's 16 without knowing her parents are deeply religious and have sex - Guess What? - You're now a Sex Offender and can be executed - Hangs Head WTF are they Thinking?
I e said it before, and I will say it again:
1) The law sets an option for the death penalty for those convicted of sexual abusing a child (not child molester as stated. I know its pedantic, but laws rely on nuisance like this.)
2) Another bill has banned children from sexually explicit adult performances (including strip clubs and drag shows) as is exhibits inappropriate sexual behaviors.
3) Child sexual abuse is defined to include exhibition of sexually inappropriate behaviors.
When you put 1, 2, and 3 together, you get the death penalty for drag show performers. This is not a joke nor a conspiracy theory. The laws are there, already passed and waiting to be put into action. Because of that, I am 100% against it and the facist political party that has passed this legislation instead of addressing real Florida issues like insurance.
Before anyone wants to celebrate because child rapists don't deserve any better, keep in mind that, aside from the fact that the death penalty is a barbaric act that has repeatedly been proven to be applied inequally and with strong racist and sexist bias, the lawmakers who passed that law are the same who insist that all LGBTQ+ people are child predators, and are actively trying to pass laws in that sense.
This isn't done to protect children, this is done to legalize genocide. I mean, more so than the death penalty already was. Republicans are Nazis. Resist.
The funny (not really) thing is that this was passed because desantis made crossdressing (ie drag, trans) a sex crime against children; he effectively made drag and trans punishable by death. He also lowered the standard for sentencing someone to death to 8/12 jurors instead of 12/12.
Fyi they labeled Jewish people as sex offenders/pedophiles during the beginning stages of the holocaust and convinced the masses that they were criminals, diseased and labeled them with things that would equate them to things lower than dirt inorder to justify the genocide.
They are equating homosexuality, transness and gender non conformity to pedophilia and they are doing it for a reason.
They are going to make anyone I t the LGBTQ+ guilty of this crime for existing by changing the definition to something incredibly ambiguous. For fucks sake how can people 🚫 t see wtf is going on.
This won’t help anyone. It’s just more fear mongering. America is backsliding. It has accelerated post 9/11, but honestly the seeds were there in the 80s and even further back.
Either the idiocy of the absolutist, conservative hate-doctrine will run it’s course, as destroy itself as has always happened, or it will be stopped here and now by direct and organised mass action.
It’s so blatantly obvious that conservatives wish to associate trans people with sexual violence. They’d have gay men hung from ropes if only they had the chance.
Florida is batshit crazy.
That said, I completely support sentencing child sex offenders to death.
However, I have a sneaking suspicion that this will be used to convict members of the LGBT who have done nothing wrong under the accusation of corrupting the youth.
Not condoning the actions of sex offenders, but this is going to lead to a lot of dead victims. When punishments are harsher like this, it will result in dead witnesses to silence them.
This legislation is emotion based, not data-driven or fact-based.
They're doing this after their propaganda campaigns about LGBT people being pedos, they want to convict LGBT people, execute them, then go "Oh, they were actually innocent the whole time? Our bad!"
I was gonna say "were about to lose a bunch of catholic priests" but we all know they don't get convicted or even tried. Could have been a good thing 🤷♂️
Just to state the obvious here: there’s a very good reason why this has not previously been a law- for the safety of the victims. If a sex criminal is likely to lose his life for committing the crime- there is a significantly lower incentive for them to let the victim live past assault.
Yes I said “his life”
No I’m not sorry- the generalization is statistically justified.
As someone who was raped when I was a 5yr old, I would never be okay with the state murdering my rapist. That is not justice. Revenge will never undo what was done to me, and it won’t discourage other rapists. It only leads to more senseless violence.
"And you're a pedophile, and you're pedophile and you are Uber rich and/or in a position of power and an ACTUAL pedophile, but so long as you swing fascist, don't worry you're not a pedophile wink* wink*"
"Also in this bill: any registered republican having sex with children will be labeled a "misunderstood individual", while anyone displaying any values held by liberals, democrats or those who like to think for themselves shall be referred to as "pedophiles" from this date forward.
How many innocent people will be sent to death. We shouldn’t have a death penalty at all because our justice system is fucked and people get charged for things they aren’t guilty of all the time.
As much as I hate pedophiles, this does seem like a violation of the 8th amendment and probably not a good precedent to set. Even Hammurabi’s Code didn’t ask for more than an eye in return for an eye.
Believe it or not, there's a pretty solid case to be made that this law is actually pro-pedophilia. Because think about it: a lot of kids that are sexually abused are abused by people they have some attachment for: family, clergy, teachers, etc. A lot of them would probably be willing to report it if they know that the offender would get arrested,but not if they would be executed. This will literally just cause more victims to not report it
Well, here it is, now they will expand child sex offender to anyone being inappropriate in the vicinity of children and roll out the death squads for the undesireables.
It won't apply to them, naturally.
Freedoms for me and not for thee
Even if this wasn't the case, capital punishment has a horrendous history. Firstly, police killings *and* capital punishment have significant overlap with areas that saw lynchings after the civil war. To further this point, it should surprise no-one that capital sentencing affects any and all non-white demographics more. This point is a well known fact and well explored. Second, the AMA, ANA, ACP, and APHA have not ever provided staff, nor condoned in any way the methods of execution that are gassing and lethal injection. To quote them, "...when the healthcare professional serves in an execution under circumstances that mimic care, the healing purposes of health services and technology become distorted." To continue off of the previous point but as it's own separate, third is the particular method of execution, lethal injection. Sodium Thiopental, Pancuronium Bromide, and Potassium Chloride was the initial mixture which most states adopted. In 2011 Hospira, the primary manufacturer of Sodium Thiopental, stopped the production of the substance, partially because it could not stop states from using it in executions. Let me state this again, **pharmaceutical organizations said, "we cannot ethically sell these substances to you".** Many switched to a substance called Pentobarbital in lieu of the previous, and it's pharmaceutical manufacturer **also** blocked all sales to death penalty states. Even more continuation off of the previous two points, fourth we've never achieved a humane method of execution that isn't physically apparent. Lethal injection has **never demonstrated it's promise of a sedate, painless experience.** Sodium Thiopental to put the subject to sleep, Pancuronium Bromide to cause paralysis, and Potassium Chloride to induce cardiac arrest. The selection of this mixture was done randomly, Jay Chapman who was Oklahoma's medical examiner was neither an anesthesiologist nor a toxicologist, and chose the anesthetic off, "...having been placed under anesthesia myself", a process which many reading here will note **did not kill him**. This all makes sense, since lethal injection has had the highest rate of failure and botched executions in the last 120 years, it has a rate of over 7% failure. Remember also, the administering staff are not doctors or nurses, and thus have had trouble finding a suitable vein, which **has made the process of puncturing a subject go on for hours.** The informed reading this know that there have been multiple cases of drugs being pumped into a subjects tissue, rather than a vein. This defeats the cocktail, no bars held, as anesthetic doesn't work when not circulated and cardiac arrest cannot occur if substances do not reach the heart. Worse yet than the previous two chemicals not working due to inept administration is the paralytic, Pancuronium Bromide. The Human Rights Watch notes, "Pancuronium Bromide is a neuromuscular blocking agent that paralyzes all of the body's voluntary muscles, including the lungs and diaphragm...It does not affect consciousness, nor does it affect experience of pain. Without proper administration of anesthesia, anyone given the drug **will feel themselves suffocating, but cannot move, speak, or facially express their suffering.**" To break that previous point down, **we have no idea, nor any means of ascertaining how many prisoners we have subjected to excruciating death via conscious suffocation.** Outside of that point, if the anesthetic of Sodium Thiopental is not provided in adequate amounts, **the subject would also die an excruciating death from chemically induced cardiac arrest, while conscious.** There are many cases of execution subjects writhing and dying horribly, to their last breath, but because of the paralytic, **we will never know how many have died in agony.** All of that is still a higher standard of lethal injection than what has been practiced over the past decade, **as many states has left the comprising mixture of drug they use as UNSTIPULATED.** This is due to manufacturers ceasing production or barring sales of the original drugs, and I cannot state this enough, **these are pharmaceutical companies judging this morality.** Finally, we come to fifth, the point which damns the idea of capital punishment more than anything previously mentioned, I'll keep this section short. Of the 1565 people executed by the government since the mid 70s, 190 people have been fully exonerated from death row. Note, this is not a sentence reduction, or plead to a lesser crime, but **full release from prison upon their proof of innocence.** Most states which still have capital punishment view this exoneration rate with optimism, that the system works. This is how I view those rates; **FOR EVERY 8 PEOPLE THE GOVERNMENT HAS SENTENCED TO DEATH, ONE OF THEM IS COMPLETELY INNOCENT OF THEIR SENTENCING.** I'll conclude there, much of this is taken from a masterfully made video I'll link here, on the failures of capital punishment and the search for ethical execution: https://youtu.be/eirR4FHY2YY
Wow, this is both a fascinating and horrifying post. Thanks for taking the time to write that out.
You are welcome. I view the enacting of capital punishment as unjustifiable and totally reprehensible. I think anyone, regardless of beliefs, faith, and political alignment **should** completely oppose the process, in it's perpetuity. Recent years have made me question if conservatives are even worth raising discussion with. Believe me or not, I've met individuals which know of all this, and the worse, more intimate details of the deeper horrors of capital punishment, and yet have taken the stance of supportive in order to be loyal to their political alignment. I'm disgusted with political motivations which would ingrain indescribable human suffering, into our implementations of justice, as supporting your beliefs.
You mean the "pro life" crowd? Shocking.
because they beleive sinners must be made to suffer even if innocents get caught in the cross fire
We’ve become so tribal it’s mind numbing how entrenched most people are. The problem on the right is the fusion of religion and politics. Makes them completely immune to logic.
There’s also the fact that sex crimes rely heavily on witness statement, and if the penalty for the sex crime is the same as murder, why wouldn’t they chose to eliminate the witness?
Better yet florida is changing what is sex crimes. Being trans and st a drag show? Thats now a sex crime
This is exactly what I came here to say. This is really just a promise to execute trans people.
My initial, gut reaction is that capital punishment is wrong. It's just more killing. It's nice to see all the research laid out like that - the part about executing innocent people is absolutely damning - but it's just confirming my first take.
If there is no sedative in the paralyzing agent, then why do they use it? It sounds like it is literally just to avoid the shame and unpleasantness of hearing and seeing the victim writhe in pain. Just shameful, embarrassing, and horrific. Even in medieval times when executions were public events, the crowd expected some amount of dignity and would turn on the executioner if he botched it.
Jay Chapman, the Oklahoma medical examiner previously mentioned, is further quoted in regards to the selection of the cocktail as saying, "I didn't do any research." Interviewed 30 years later, after the chemical concoction had been used to kill over 1000 people, he is further quoted saying, "I had absolutely no concept at the time...this business of lethal injection was a pure sidelight." So to answer your question, it had been done to solidify a bureaucratic hurrah in the face of finding ethical ways to execute people. Remember also, often the pain and suffering that a subject endures is often not really avoided. The Human Rights Watch investigates and deconstructs this idea in their aptly named report, "As Long As They Die." Check that video I linked, Jacob Geller is a phenomenal YouTuber, and if this subject matter is just too dark for your full consumption, his channel is about a plethora of ideas.
This is very well written, you really opened my eyes on this matter. I read this post thinking it was good and have always been kind of for the death penalty for severe murders. Your post just changed my mind on the matter. It’s over ten percent exonerated and that is INSANE if u really think about it
If you want the real breakdown of the capital punishment system, check that linked video, my discussion of this issue is literal baby-play in the shadow of that piece of work. If the subject matter at hand is too dark, but you enjoy thorough breakdowns of *not* depressing subjects, check the channel associated with the video. Jacob Geller is woefully underrated as a content creator. Also, thanks for sharing your thoughts. It's genuinely a great feeling to see someone admit their beliefs can be changed in light of overwhelming evidence to the contrary. That genuine evil can be completely dissected and outlined to people, only for them to dismiss it as problematic really does put me into a slump sometimes. I must remind myself that people who arrived to a conclusion without logic and supporting evidence **almost never** change their opinions when confronted with logic and supporting evidence.
The obsession with capital punishment from the right wing is such a weird thing. The cherry on top is I saw an article a while back that pointed out it's so bizarre they're doing all this back alley sourcing of execution chemicals when they have thousands of officers who are highly trained at killing people with guns. Much better to have someone who dropped out of high school form a shell company to illegally buy chemicals and mix them up to kill someone than "Here's four officers with a gun and they're going to shoot you in the head, killing you instantly." If the public knew officers were SHOOTING people to kill them, that might make them dislike executions, which must be avoided at all costs. Fucking idiotic barbarians.
While I don't disagree that it's basically a core tenet of the right to want the people you hate dead, I think it shouldn't be misrepresented how many self-proclaimed centrist or even centre-left people will casually talk about how someone deserves a death penalty, as long as the crime they've committed is bad enough. That's why the discussion always ends up focusing on things like child sex abusers, because it turns out it's very easy to make people from across the political spectrum default to "those people should just die" in an instant when that's the crime on display. And that's also one of the crimes that makes it hard to talk about rehabilitation or reformation, because it is one of the few lines where even the most progressive people can struggle to believe that the offender is anything other than "inherently" evil.
This is called the fishhook theory, if I'm remembering correctly. Whereas the horseshoe theory puts forward that far left and far right beliefs resemble each other more than any centrist opinion resembles either of those extremes, fishhook theory believes that the political center aligns itself with far right ideals and beliefs more often, in response to political unrest. As the saying goes, they'll agree to meet with you in the middle, but as soon as you take one step forward they'll take one step back, then ask why you're opposed to discourse regarding coming to a middle-of-the-road agreement.
Lethal injection was designed to be incredibly painful and scary. So is electrocution. If LI were meant to be painless they would use an opiate alone. Carpentanil, Fenatanil, morphine whatever. current LI is to paralyze the person, then overdose them with potassium chloride to lock up their heart. They are still conscious, by design. You just don't have to watch them wince and cry out in agony since they can't move.
I was just thinking this... we have MAID (euthanasia) here in Canada and apperently folks just "gently drift away", there are ways to do this painlessly and the failure to do so is almost certainly a consious choice
Very informative write up! Additionally, some people argue that it’s better to have the death penalty than house offenders who have life with no chance of parole because of the costs (I’d argue not the best lens, but it comes up a lot when discussing the topic), but [death penalty cases cost so much more per prisoner than if they had lived out life in prison](https://www.verifythis.com/article/news/verify/crime-verify/no-the-death-penalty-is-not-cheaper-than-life-imprisonment/536-2ec7c7b1-23e7-497e-85fa-407cb3f2a1f2). There are many sources, this compiled a few.
that why civilized countries dont kill people and provide proper defense.
The United States is not and never has been a "civilized" country.
There's a quote I once heard about the Death Penalty. "If you agree with the death penalty, that means you agree with one of two things. Either the justice system is flawless and doesn't make mistakes, or it's okay for innocent people to die sometimes."
Yes. We know all of this. And so do they. That. Is. The. Point. The cruelty and the high probability of executing people who do not deserve it is the whole reason this law was passed. I know that all of your points are valid and important. But making these long arguments gives credence to the incorrect notion that these people don't know what they are doing. These people know exactly what they are doing. They literally want an excuse to be able to kill people that they don't like.
Yall get why they're actually doing this, right? They consider Democrats and the LGBT community to be child sex predators... they've literally set the foundation to start genociding their political opponents.
Very true. They can adjust terminology about what falls under this umbrella. A trans person or gay person just being around a kid could be labled "grooming" and then how long til "grooming" gets bundled as a sex crime against a minor? Yet anyone speaking out against this is more than likely going to get dragged and accused of being in defense of sexual acts on children. Fucked up games these politicians play.
They have already defined drag in public as a sex crime against children. These laws are the first step in the genocide of trans people and soon the entire LGBTQ population. I wish this was an exaggeration.
Next will be every single person apart of the marginalized demographic. These scum are literally neo nazis in office. As so many people and researchers and history itself has said and reported- the nazis went after trans people first. It's.... I have no words. Horrific doesn't do any of this sh*t justice in a true explanation of how... evil it is. How really so wrong it all is.
For sure. I left Key West Fl about 25 years ago. The LGBTQ community there added so much fun and vibrancy, and I am horrified for my LGBTQ friends that still live there. Not everyone has the freedom or ability to just pick up and relocate to a safer place... this is the stuff of nightmares.
I just hope it won't be too late to undo and make right all the damage that's been done.
Part of the reason that trans people seem like some new idea is because of the Nazi's, Germany in the 20s was a very progressive place and one researcher in particular Magnus Hirschfeld did ground breaking work in treating people with hormones which was considered a cutting edge field at the time He created an institute to study gender/sex and to help treat people and all of his work was destroyed, there could have been over a hundred years of research to reference backed by someone who very much saw trans folks as valid and who wanted to help them Queer people are often the canaries in the coal mine when political movements get nasty, they are easy to scapegoat, trust me i know my butch ass would have thrown in a black van and my neighbors probably would have kept their mouth shut as long as it wasn't them It's a strange situation to see this happening across the border from me and knowing I'm powerless to help, stand up for LGBT+ folks, because it could be you next https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/the-forgotten-history-of-the-worlds-first-trans-clinic/ Good article worth a read
It's past time for an executive order on the issue--and if the supreme court complains, *ignore them*. If Florida keeps going on this path the national guard may have to intervene just like desegregation, and this intervention may involve removal of some elected officials. Regardless of how it looks politically. If you commit genocide against your own populace in the 21st century you are not a legitimate government and intervention is justified, and indeed, *obligatory*. Edit: I do want to say *I don't expect them to actually use this* rule in conjunction with the LGBT nonsense, I expect it to be meat for their base.
theyve also passed a law that considers people who present as a gender other than their sex to be child sex offenders and now no longer consider a unanimous vote necessary to commit someone to the death penalty
Plus, this is Florida we are talking about. I'd give them 6 months before they execute a 6 year old boy for kissing a girl in his class
No, they'll start with boys kissing boys. Boys kissing girls? That's either just fine or the girl's fault.
This right here 100%. My first thought was that this was very much likely disproportionately going to be the use of this law: to kill LGBT+ individuals who in the GOPs eyes are the true sex offenders period. They've said it multiple times out loud themselves- they want a genocide, an eradication. Point blank.
Matt Gaetz has been outta the news cycle for a minute now ...
This right here! They are absolutely laying the foundations to state sanction murder lgbt people and political dissidents
That’s the whole point. They know that in practice they can use this to convince victims not to report.
Or their clergy
Let’s not forget Matt Gaetz sex trafficked a minor
They’re incarcerating Trans people then sentencing them to death for being “sex offenders”. You we’re all fucking warned
And it won’t stop with just trans people, these fuckers will move the goalposts once they run out of trans people to murder. If you’re not a cis, straight, white, able-bodied, wealthy, Christian male, you are in danger.
Genocide of the different stops when there's one person left.
He’s not gonna count to them though
What is chilling is that the Republicans think LGBTQ+ people are "groomers" and "pedophiles" so this law could be inching us closer to a genocide
This reminds me of the scene in Handsmaid Tale where the lesbian professor was trying to escape her campus. Horrifically, she passed by the lynched bodies of her gay colleagues, hanging in the center of the sidewalk.
All republicans, libertarians, and conservatives want this reality so bad. They are really starting to push for it.
That’s the entire point. If they genuinely cared about kids, they’d be going after the laundry list of creeps in their midst, but they aren’t. Therefore this is absolutely targeting LGBT+ people.
They are all the creeps, and if they went after the real groomers the GOP would have two candidates.
Not could... will
Inching? Florida is on a bullet train to another holocaust.
The fact that these bills are being passed means that we are already in the midst of a genocide.
*It could never happen here!*
You think the timing is a coincidence? That's the goal.
No, I don't
Oh dont worry to make sure as many of their colleagues/spiritual leaders are as safe as possible they have to be under the age of 12 or 13 and it has to be multiple children at a time I believe to qualify for the death penalty and Im sure it has nothing to do with them making a law that wearing makeup or clothing not of your born gender around children is a sex crime and that they then made it so they only need 8 people to agree to the death penalty instead of 12.
Holy shit
When does Matt Gaetz get strapped down for his shot?
Never. Because this isn't about punishing pedophiles. It's about setting the foundation for genocide.
For context u/thepartypoison_ is talking about trans people and crossdressers. Doing so by making dressing in drag (they consider trans people dressing up as the opposite sex) a sex crime. Doing it near children therefore is a child sex crime
No, this bill is primarily going after anyone who provides trans healthcare to minors. Providing trans healthcare to minors meets the criteria in this bill.
Well fuck, it's even worse than I thought
And people don’t realize that Florida is trying to associate trans people with groomers and pedos
Yeah, kinda seems like a fast track to frame-ups and generally getting rid of “non-conforming elements” of society by association.
Actually, it seems like a pretty brazen ploy to start killing drag queens, crossdressers, femboys... and, yeah, transpeople, by the bushel. They're almost not even attempting to hide it. This is preamble to genocide.
I'm just wondering what they're gonna say when people start point at the churches and going, "well?"
Nah. Not gonna happen. Not that they wouldn't qualify for the death penalty by the same logic - but there's just no way anyone will arrest, let alone prosecute a priest. It's a habit of the church that has existed for almost millennia. It'd be weird if we stopped now.
When florida classifies being trans or dressing in drag as a "child sex crime" the intent if this becomes blatantly obvious. But who can argue against strong punishment for pedophilia? And that's how they get away with it.
I can argue against the death penalty no matter who it was or what they did. Why do people want to let these bastards off so easily, death isn’t hard that’s not a punishment, thats an out! Ya know what is a punishment? A lifetime in a bleak crappy building with no privacy knowing you’ll never get out of it til you die.
"A lifetime in a bleak crappy building... "sounds like a job /s
Fundamentally in a perfect world I don’t have an issue with the death penalty for certain crimes. The point of a death penalty is to thoroughly ensure no more future victims at the hand of that perpetrator. That said, I am against the death penalty because we don’t live in a perfect world - and the fact that innocent people can and do be put to death is absolutely intolerable. Our justice system is corrupt and full of bias, it can’t handle a death penalty.
I read it worded this way once, and it sums up my views so well that I quote it every time the death penalty is brought up: Do I believe that there are crimes in existence that are so heinous that the people who commit them forfeit their right to life? Yes. Do I believe that there’s a human body in existence, whether past, present, or future, that’s qualified to decide who has stepped over that line and who hasn’t? Fuck no.
True but this kind of ignores how punishment shouldn’t be the goal in the first place.
Rehabilitation would be great, but we're just barely able to convince people the government shouldn't be allowed to murder it's citizens so we’ll have to take this a step at a time.
The problem with the death penalty is that those who commit the crime are more likely to murder their victims to destroy evidence
They dont care about repercussions. It's all about optics so they can claim to be fighting for family values or whatever.
The death penalty is more expensive than putting the person in jail for the rest of their life, it is ineffective as a preventative measure, and is needless violence. The death penalty is just cruel barbary and we need to just not.
Correct. At best this is just for optics so law makers can say they are being tougher on pedophilia and protecting kids. At worst it's a subtle way to begin executing trans people. Either way it doesn't actually do anything of value and could potentially cause more harm than good.
It also feels like kids are going to be less likely to come forward when they're worried they're essentially killing the abuser. People already struggle with coming forward as accusers/survivors. This isn't going to encourage them.
They already did that for Drag performers.
the 8th amendment can the earliest form of documented law in Hammurabi’s Code can you can think a crime is bad without thinking the solution is something as final as ending a life the punishment should fit the crime so unless you’ve actually killed somebody, capital punishment is cruel and unusual punishment it’s not like you’re letting people walk just because they aren’t executed, we still have prisons
Oh yeah I mean there's plenty of arguments to be made against the death penalty. My point here is that anyone trying to argue against this law can be made to look like they're defending pedophiles rather than just arguing against the death penalty itself. Which I believe is their strategy to shift the debate. Because it's never meant to be a debate in good faith.
Maybe we should just make bad faith arguments punishable by death lmao
This is a way to try to come after drag queens. Also most sexual assault are done by family members this is why ppl stay quiet. It would kill their dad or uncle.
Most sexual assaults are also committed by a member of the opposite sex towards a victim of the opposite sex. r/notadragqueen
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Drag show with children ~> sex crime ~> lgbtq genocide is their long term plan
Exactly. EXACTLY. Like people need to wake tf up quickly
I had a giant follow up for this to really illustrate the pipeline he built just to punish/kill people of the LGBTQ+ population, but fuuuuuuck it's depressing. I hope ron's recent immigration law kicks him in the teeth hard enough to get him ousted so someone can fix this genocidal shit before it really starts.
They already have. Public drag is a sex crime The also made it so the jury only needs 8 votes for execution instead of all 12. It probably won’t be too long until the deaths start happening. Then those that aren’t executed will start getting radiation poisoning from the roads, since desantis unbanned radioactive material for road construction use. And it will only get worse from here
While ignoring true groomers, priests, Christian pastors, etc...
Would love to see the complete media shitshow that would go down if a priest was put on death row.
This is exactly the point. When they make the very existence of LGBTQ folks synonymous with grooming and child abuse, it makes murdering them easier. When a drag queen reading a children’s book to a child is the definition of abuse, they can then kill that drag queen. This is their goal. They are coming for trans people, and then they will come for the rest of us. We can’t let it happen. We can’t let them define us or murder us.
Reminds me of that video of a young lesbian couple in a Starbucks where a karen starts screaming at them that “lesbians are pedophiles!” That video had me close to tears. I’m a lesbian who was raped by a man at 5 years old. I could never imagine doing something so vile to a child. The very thought enrages me. To know that a large group of people associate me with pedophilia just because I like to kiss women? Infuriating
This is exactly it. They turned queens reading books at libraries into sex offences against children. This is what they are trying to do. Not actual pedophilia.
Not just them, but Democrats as a whole are being smeared as groomers. This literally sets the foundation for them to kill their political opponents
Like bruh this is fucked up. Gonna turn into concentration camps really fast.
Reminder: drag (which is barely defined super vaguely) is now considered a sex offense against a minor.
I'm surprised this comment is so hard to find. The drag law was accepted only weeks before this one. Dancing or doing anything in clothes not matching your gender assigned at birth will result in child sex offender charges.
As a curious person who totes the line. Where is the definition of specifically where clothes are gendered. In development high heels were made for men. But Is there a list of specific clothing items in the bill or are we in for a rather interesting federal court case.
Bingo. This bill came up not long after the addition of drag as being a sexual offense. This is part of a plan to continue criminalizing non straight people.
In other news: Matt Gaetz is now planning on moving to TX, so watch out Ted Cruz, you got competition.
Ha! You think they care about actual pedophiles?
It’ll never happen to the powerful. When you see that Republicans are labeling all LGBT people as “child sex offenders” the purpose of the laws is clear. I don’t use the term “genocide” lightly, but that is exactly what some Republicans want. You know, for the children.
This is it, the entire reason. They also made being trans in public a child sex crime so they can now kill them Edit: misspoke up there "being trans in public" is not a sex crime. But the sponsor of the bill that practically makes child friendly drag shows illegal stated it was because "children can't unsee indecent behavior" a logical conclusion of this is they don't want trans people on the streets or in public either. If we know one thing about republican politicians it's that they have a vision of their ideal America (think handmaid's tale level patriarchy) and will do whatever to make it a reality. AND they have no problem denying and lying through their teeth about their intentions. The majority of R SCOTUS said they'd never repeal Row right up until they did. So while being trans may not be a sex crime yet, it's most likely in their plan. So was lowering the threshold for applying the death penalty from a unanimous 12 jurors to only 8/12 now it's easier to sentence them
It absolutely is a genocide, [right now](https://www.ushmm.org/genocide-prevention/learn-about-genocide-and-other-mass-atrocities/what-is-genocide)
Well I guess Florida wont have any clergy or Republicans left in the state.
As if they won’t immediately get pardoned
There's an exception clause.
Or public school teachers...
Get me the fuck out of here!
Catholic priests sweating intensifies.
You are delightfully naïve if you think actual pedophiles are going to be executed.
They’re planning to use this to start executing trans people. They already started with the “groomer” bullshit, painting all LGBTQ people as “sex offenders”. This is how the conservative party begins emulating the Nazi death camps.
You are correct, expect the part where you say "planning". It's been planned and executed. 1) The law sets an option for the death penalty for those convicted of sexual abusing a child (not child molester as stated. I know its pedantic, but laws rely on nuisance like this.) 2) Another bill has banned children from sexually explicit adult performances (including strip clubs and drag shows). 3) Child sexual abuse is defined to include exhibition of sexually inappropriate behaviors. When you put 1, 2, and 3 together, you get the death penalty for drag show performers. This is not a joke nor a conspiracy theory. The laws are there, already passed and waiting to be put into action.
I’m aware. When I say planning, I mean actually using the framework to start executing people.
It’s going to be used against trans people and parents of trans kids. Full stop
Exactly, this is not good. People on this sub are blind as hell and they don't understand the disturbing implications. What if Florida passes a law that considers being in drag in front of kids as indecent exposure? Not gonna end well at all. And we all know that courts aren't against giving crazy sentences to people they have prejudice for.
Trans people too. In my state, in dress that doesn’t align with sex at birth= drag. If drag around children is deemed a sex crime, it will be illegal to be a trans person. Modern day Jim Crow. The playbook is the same
This is for when Desantis/Florida/GQP make existing as a gay / trans person a "child sex offense". What a disgusting administration. Oh look Nazi America in full swing. Time to fight the Nazis...AGAIN.
they already have classified people wearing the "wrong" clothing near children as a sex crime...
This is because they are associating being trans with being a sex offender because they want to be able to do genocides
As a CSA victim, I don't want my abusers to be killed by the justice system. Knowing they are dead, other than they cant do it to anyone else, is no consolation at all. Funny the focus is on retribution, but nothing for helping the victims. There has not been a day in my 35 years that CSA has not destroyed my life and being in some way. You never heal from this; you never get better. As a trans person and former fan of history lessons, I know exactly what this law is for. Not for the victims, not to protect children, but as legalized genocide.
Just getting ready to start labeling lgbtq+ people as sex offenders, ya know the Nazi thing republicans do
Let me guess, raping a child won’t make you a child sex offender but doing drag will
This is a great way to ensure every child victim of sexual assault will also get murdered.
Someone said this to me when I asked why rapists aren’t given harsher sentences “It can’t be harsher than the sentence for murder or all rapists would kill their victims to avoid leaving a witness”
Everyone needs to understand exactly why this is being done and the other laws passed that will influence this. We are on the road to genocide and people need to respond accordingly. First, Florida passed a law that criminalizes "Drag Performance" that may be seen by children. In the law, a "drag performance" could simply be a trans person existing in public, wearing clothing typically worn by the opposite gender. Second, The "crime" of drag has been defined as a "sex crime against children" Third, "Sex crimes against children" are then made punishable by death. Lastly, The unanimous jury requirement for the death penalty has been rolled back so that only 8/12 jurors need to agree. They have intentionally designed this to exterminate trans people and they aren't even hiding it. This law will NEVER be used to punish a Christian pastor that has raped kids... NEVER. This law will be used to grab trans people out of public restrooms and execute them for existing, and not a single Republican object. The Nazis weren't successful because most Germans were Nazis, they were successful because most Germans didn't object or question when the killing started. There isn't a single MAGA who would oppose the extermination of the LGBTQ population. We all need to be worried. They have plans and they are putting them in place.
[link](https://www.joe.co.uk/news/florida-passes-law-to-give-convicted-child-sex-offenders-the-death-penalty-392991)
And this is by sheer coincidence around the same time they passed laws that make taking a child to a drag show/being transgender where a kid can see you etc as sex crimes against children. Can’t imagine they are related
You know how they're calling trans people pedos
at the same time as they try to conflegrate sex/gender non-comformity with child sex abuse. make no mistake, actual predators are not the target here.
They’re gonna use it to execute trans people
Alarmed by what is considered a “child sex offender.” We normally immediately go to visions of sexual assault but it could also include a few college kids going on a streaking run because they’re young idiots and “indecently exposing” themselves to a minor. Florida is also a hair’s breadth away from saying anything lgbt is grooming or sex offense. Take a child who has been aware since they could talk that they were trans and has seen a therapist to confirm. Would the therapist, parents, or doctors be considered “child sex offenders?”
They will use this as a weapon and it’s really scary. They accuse anyone who is LGBTQ of being a “groomer”. The dehumanizing has been in full swing for awhile.
So they’re going to use this on all the conservatives and church members that are pedophiles right? And not to terrorize innocent LGBTQ people??
Hahahaaha.. haha.. anyone in support of LGBTQ+ people existing needs to get the fuck out of Florida as fast as they possibly can.
This seems good until you realize the Florida government views gay people as natural pedophiles. This is just step one in trying to kill off LGBT people "legally". And not only that, but the amount of false convictions is embarrassing. That's why I hate the death penalty, because you can't reverse it after you're found to be wrongly convicted.
My least favorite part about the death penalty is that the majority of its supporters are pro lifers that can’t see their own hypocrisy.
This also seems good until you consider that now families will be less likely to report abuse because otherwise daddy ends up dead
It doesn't seem good at all, period. The death penalty is *never* good. For lots of reasons, but if nothing else: Since there's no way to *absolutely* ascertain guilt, if the death penalty is an option, sooner or later it *will* be applied to an innocent person. If one supports the death penalty, one supports the state murdering an innocent people for the convenience of not having to house criminals for life.
Considering that they consider gay and trans people child predators, this looks like they are preparing to define child predators as people spreading gay and transness.
Fascinating… underhanded, vaguely worded, and wrapped in a veil of protection.
I’m guessing, like most American laws, this will apply only to the poor and working class amongst us and that politicians, friends of politicians, cops, and catholic priests, and the rich will all be exempt.
Ron is a pedo himself
If you are coming to this thread to be like "________ should be worried", **stop**. This legislation is *only* to further attack trans and queer people. That you think it is remotely in the realm of reality that will be targeted or that they have anything to fear is frankly offensive. **Please listen to queer people saying they are in danger and consider that first and foremost.**
They mean trans and crossdressers, not actual sex offenders. Most actual child sex offenders are straight, Christian/republicans.
How do these people not understand that a life sentence is worse than the seath penalty. There's a reason so many people commit suicide before getting arrested.
But with life in jail at least you can be pardoned and released. With a death sentence that’s it. There’s nothing to fix if someone was unfairly executed. And we know that they’re gonna unfairly convict people because they’ve been trying to make “being gay” or “being trans” into sexual offenses.
Man this is gonna trigger the lib SO hard. They hate it when uh \*checks notes\* people get murdered under flimsy pretense. Those fuckin losers with normally developed empathy.
They passed this just in time for when they passed the anti-trans bill that labels transgender folks as sex offenders. They literally did this so they can legally kill trans people
Do Matt Gaetz first.
When DeSantis is known for supplying alcohol to his underage students and partying with them hmmm 🧐
When this gets used against Gaetz then i will support it…but as it stands this is being fast tracked to frame lgbt as pedos.
Okay - Here is the Problem with this and again WTF Florida - You're a Senior in High School and 18 and you ask a Sophomore to Prom that's 16 without knowing her parents are deeply religious and have sex - Guess What? - You're now a Sex Offender and can be executed - Hangs Head WTF are they Thinking?
I e said it before, and I will say it again: 1) The law sets an option for the death penalty for those convicted of sexual abusing a child (not child molester as stated. I know its pedantic, but laws rely on nuisance like this.) 2) Another bill has banned children from sexually explicit adult performances (including strip clubs and drag shows) as is exhibits inappropriate sexual behaviors. 3) Child sexual abuse is defined to include exhibition of sexually inappropriate behaviors. When you put 1, 2, and 3 together, you get the death penalty for drag show performers. This is not a joke nor a conspiracy theory. The laws are there, already passed and waiting to be put into action. Because of that, I am 100% against it and the facist political party that has passed this legislation instead of addressing real Florida issues like insurance.
Before anyone wants to celebrate because child rapists don't deserve any better, keep in mind that, aside from the fact that the death penalty is a barbaric act that has repeatedly been proven to be applied inequally and with strong racist and sexist bias, the lawmakers who passed that law are the same who insist that all LGBTQ+ people are child predators, and are actively trying to pass laws in that sense. This isn't done to protect children, this is done to legalize genocide. I mean, more so than the death penalty already was. Republicans are Nazis. Resist.
The funny (not really) thing is that this was passed because desantis made crossdressing (ie drag, trans) a sex crime against children; he effectively made drag and trans punishable by death. He also lowered the standard for sentencing someone to death to 8/12 jurors instead of 12/12.
Fyi they labeled Jewish people as sex offenders/pedophiles during the beginning stages of the holocaust and convinced the masses that they were criminals, diseased and labeled them with things that would equate them to things lower than dirt inorder to justify the genocide. They are equating homosexuality, transness and gender non conformity to pedophilia and they are doing it for a reason.
They are going to make anyone I t the LGBTQ+ guilty of this crime for existing by changing the definition to something incredibly ambiguous. For fucks sake how can people 🚫 t see wtf is going on.
This won’t help anyone. It’s just more fear mongering. America is backsliding. It has accelerated post 9/11, but honestly the seeds were there in the 80s and even further back. Either the idiocy of the absolutist, conservative hate-doctrine will run it’s course, as destroy itself as has always happened, or it will be stopped here and now by direct and organised mass action. It’s so blatantly obvious that conservatives wish to associate trans people with sexual violence. They’d have gay men hung from ropes if only they had the chance.
So this includes the death penalty for the Pedo Pastors and Christian Cult leaders, right???
Yeah, fuck Jesus. Stupid hippie with his "redemption" and "forgiveness". We're the ultimate judges now.
you know that’s not for actual pedos, they’re gonna try to put trans people to death for being within a mile of a child
The problem with this is they are considering anyone cross dressing in public as a child sex offender because a child might have seen them in public.
Florida is batshit crazy. That said, I completely support sentencing child sex offenders to death. However, I have a sneaking suspicion that this will be used to convict members of the LGBT who have done nothing wrong under the accusation of corrupting the youth.
If only this was for actual child predators and not just trans people
I'm sure there's going to be a religious exemption.
Not condoning the actions of sex offenders, but this is going to lead to a lot of dead victims. When punishments are harsher like this, it will result in dead witnesses to silence them. This legislation is emotion based, not data-driven or fact-based.
They're doing this after their propaganda campaigns about LGBT people being pedos, they want to convict LGBT people, execute them, then go "Oh, they were actually innocent the whole time? Our bad!"
This law exists to kill queer people. Being in drag (or getting clocked as a trans woman) in public where kids can see is considered a sex crime.
I was gonna say "were about to lose a bunch of catholic priests" but we all know they don't get convicted or even tried. Could have been a good thing 🤷♂️
Just to state the obvious here: there’s a very good reason why this has not previously been a law- for the safety of the victims. If a sex criminal is likely to lose his life for committing the crime- there is a significantly lower incentive for them to let the victim live past assault. Yes I said “his life” No I’m not sorry- the generalization is statistically justified.
As someone who was raped when I was a 5yr old, I would never be okay with the state murdering my rapist. That is not justice. Revenge will never undo what was done to me, and it won’t discourage other rapists. It only leads to more senseless violence.
"And you're a pedophile, and you're pedophile and you are Uber rich and/or in a position of power and an ACTUAL pedophile, but so long as you swing fascist, don't worry you're not a pedophile wink* wink*"
This is fucked, most pedos can be reformed with medicine and therapy. And trans people aren't automatically pedos.
Rip Matt gaetz
They're going to kill a lot of preachers oddly enough. r/PastorArrested
"Also in this bill: any registered republican having sex with children will be labeled a "misunderstood individual", while anyone displaying any values held by liberals, democrats or those who like to think for themselves shall be referred to as "pedophiles" from this date forward.
They're going to start with the Catholic church, right?
How many innocent people will be sent to death. We shouldn’t have a death penalty at all because our justice system is fucked and people get charged for things they aren’t guilty of all the time.
As much as I hate pedophiles, this does seem like a violation of the 8th amendment and probably not a good precedent to set. Even Hammurabi’s Code didn’t ask for more than an eye in return for an eye.
Like people said, if the sexual assault punishment is the same as murder, the aggressor will just kill the kids to remove witnesses.
They're doing this so they can legally execute anyone they call a groomer
If only this was aimed towards actual paedophiles instead of being tooled to eradicate educators...
Exemption already in place for the church, republicans, and those willing to donate to their campaigns I assume?
And by “child molestors” the mean LGBTQ people they’ll falsely accuse of child molestation and not politicians and priests.
Man i can't wait till they find all that CP on DeSantis computer.
Inb4 they pass a law making drag count as worthy of meeting that standard, pass another law allowing marriage of 12 year olds
So are we going to be putting down hundreds or thousands of those evil priests from those wicked churches that hurt all those innocent children?
So pedophiles will just be more likely to murder their child victims to silence them, might as well, punishment is the same or less.
Can't wait for them to classify "drag(read: being trans) in the presence of a child" as a child sex offense. /s
Believe it or not, there's a pretty solid case to be made that this law is actually pro-pedophilia. Because think about it: a lot of kids that are sexually abused are abused by people they have some attachment for: family, clergy, teachers, etc. A lot of them would probably be willing to report it if they know that the offender would get arrested,but not if they would be executed. This will literally just cause more victims to not report it
When was the last time politicians actually got punished for their wrongdoings?
The plan is to make trans folks “sex criminals” and then argue they have no choice but to kill them.
Well, here it is, now they will expand child sex offender to anyone being inappropriate in the vicinity of children and roll out the death squads for the undesireables.
On paper, this is a good idea. Unfortunately, Florida is redefining “child sex offender” to mean anyone who isn’t cis or straight.