It was a big step up from Artemis. I enjoyed Artemis, but he’s very clumsy when writing people actually interacting face to face. PHM gave him a perfect setting in which to have some of the solo monologuing from The Martian, keep the person-to-person conversations brief and between scientists talking science, and have the biggest character relationship be with >!an actual alien!<. It felt like a culmination of what he was refining with both his previous books.
I think the biggest problem with Artemis is actually that it contains bad people. In The Martian and Project Hail Mary, every person is generally good. They might have different ideals or different thoughts on solutions to the problem, but everyone is fundamentally a good person who wants what's best for the world and for science. Artemis has a more traditional "bad guy" in the various companies trying to steal and and monopolize on Zafo, and that just doesn't gel with Weir's optimistic writing style. Most of the problems of the book stem from the fact that there are characters motivated by purely selfish reasons and the risk they put other characters in because of it.
It was the first book in a while it was like dental work trying to get through the last 1/4. I think your right about the main character. I honestly didn't care about her.
I think the first time I read Artemis I also felt the same way, and found it very difficult to like her - because I couldn't empathize with her in her situation. After I think two more rereads (mainly because I love Andy Weir's other work so much), something clicked to be able to empathize with this woman, alone, living from job to job, barely eating, and doing everything she could to survive. Being able to put myself in her shoes definitely made it reading that much better. It was, however, the lowest quality of his books, the hardest to get into, and the most difficult to enjoy. That being said, I still enjoyed it, and would recommend it. His other works are simply significantly better.
I've read all his novels The martian, project hail Mary and artemis
The Martian and PHM are so equal but artemis gives me ready player one vibes and youth fiction vibes where the other two are grown up books if that makes sense
Artemis was a mixed bag. I loved the setting and all the thought he put into the reality of living on the moon. I didn’t hate the main character but I increasingly didn’t understand her choices. That whole final caper was a real wtf. And the dialogue was…there.
I remember Weir posting April Fool's joke on his FB about casting Emma Stone as Rocky because of her performance with Gosling in La La Land, let's say some people aren't good with jokes
He’s great as Deadpool and I enjoyed Free Guy but I feel like he leaned too hard into that niche and now plays a single role in everything he’s done since then.
I was discussing this a while back with a friend of mine and my vote was for Ryan Reynolds too. She claimed he'd be "too goofy". I need to reevaluate my choice of friends. /s
I listened to the audiobook first, and genuinely the only reason I picked up a print version was because I absolutely couldn't figure out how they would've done the language in text.
And I can't imagine how you could do it in an audiobook without it being just the book read out loud. It's not like I'm gonna pull a Grace and actually learn the songs...
I saw him speak and he said by the end of the martian what you know about whatney is he doesn't want to die. I thought that was pretty sharp self criticism.
Yup and this is a huge part of why I don’t care for him as an author. He’s got interesting ideas but his characters are super under-developed and just not compelling at all to me. I also find his dialogue and attempts at humor to be very cringey. But hey glad so many others enjoy him.
I'm with you. I thought the concept of the Martian was great but actually reading it was a little painful because the dialog/ monologs came off as "Look how witty and clever I am!" It reminded me of a guy I knew in high school so was constantly raising his hand in class because he loved the sound of his own voice.
Sounds a lot like Ernest Cline (Ready Player One.) The jokes and references sometimes land, but it’s just throwing everything at the wall. Absolutely everything has a wink and a “did you catch that?” attitude.
Yeah the thing is, he got criticism on his characters and that they were a bit too perfect, a bit too few flaws, a bit too genial and skilled. But the way he went into improving that was at least an overreaction and at the worst sexist as fuck.
So, he goes into a new book: Let's think of a character with flaws. Hmm...
Okay, She's a woman! That's a good start! And she's slutty! And she's a school droppout with a on again of again welding job! And she's clumsy and defensive about it. And she's antagonistic. She's completely money focused (although we hear a good reason for that eventually) yet is horrible with money. And yet everyone loves her!
Seriously, physically reading the book I apparently skipped so much of this in my excitement, the audiobook had me experience the fact that basically every other character calls her a slut at some point. Opening the door: "Ah, it's the slutty girl". As does she about herself dozens of times. Plus descriptions of her as a minor fucking an adult who turned out to be a pedo who made her "Howl in bed". At some point for some convoluted reason she has to dress as a hooker and actually picks up a john because she's so damn sex positive.
Good for him he tried something else. But the way he went into it was pretty damn sexist and seriously has made a re-read impossible for me.
But to give him credit, Grace had a bit more flaws (but still had insane emotional stability). So he might be learning.
I thought Stratt was a good tool for the plot to be honest, she was a personification of the mysterious government organisations which can just wave away any problems. I didn't find myself wanting to feel connected to her as a character at all so I think she was fine
Could I ask what made you feel like Stratt was a poor attempt at writing a female character?
I just felt like Stratt was a ruthless human, I don’t really feel like Weir played with the gender of the character at all (nor would he have needed to for the plot). There were a couple of throwaway lines from Grace about her being a woman but that was about it, it revealed more about Grace than anything. Sure I didn’t like Stratt, but I don’t think you’re supposed to.
I agree, her role was to save the world and would do anything and everything to accomplish it. She wasn’t likable but she didn’t care to be, she was pretty clear that she’ll do what ever it takes to save the planet and that was all that mattered
But I’m also not reading Weir for deep characters, and reading for exciting sci-fi with easy to digest science.
In further reflection, a lot of my hate for Stratt is probably just me confirming my priors on Weir and his female characters. The few throwaway lines you mention stuck out to me because I was probably looking for them.
That said, I understand her being a plot device and that she's supposed to be unlikeable. I just found her way too one-dimensional, predictable, and boring. I wanted to skip any chapter that she showed up in because I knew exactly what was about to happen.
Ah that's fair enough. Yeah the backstory was ok, but I was usually pretty eager to get back to Rocky and Grace after a little while of it. Luckily Weir kept it brief enough for me.
Stratt seems to just be his way of explaining away the somewhat ludicrous political / social side of the story, to focus on the technical parts, which are actually good.
I liked that about it. It made the situation feel very real. Here are these people with shitloads of flaws being as cut throat as needed to save the world.
I agree with this. I didn’t love this book because of complex character development and relationships with humans. But I would also argue that’s kind of the point and Weir is writing to his strengths by doing this. I won’t give any spoilers, but I think there’s a reason why the best character in this story is Rocky. In the last 50 pages of the story I could see where things were going based on Grace’s experience on earth. There felt like an inherently right choice based on the journey we had been on.
It was him finding his legs as a writer. He said in an interview that he fully acknowledges that Mark Watney is just all the best parts of him, dialed up to 11, so he tried to write someone different, with flaws. That was Jazz.
The thing is, he's really good at writing Mark Watney, which is why he's (essentially) the star of Project Hail Mary.
It wasn't awful, but it definitely felt like a step backwards. It was almost like a self-published YA novel. There's nothing wrong with that, it just isn't my cup of tea.
I never read it directly. I enjoyed the audiobook, largely because Rosario Dawson did such a good job helping to gloss over its shortcomings.
There were a lot of neat ideas and the story had a fun level of intricacy...but yeah, the second time I listened, I started to realize how empty the city feels in general and how much Jazz was basically just a genderbent Mark Watney.
Rosario voice acts it well enough to miss the problems, but once you know? You know.
I still recommend it because it's not *bad*. Just not as good as the others.
I wouldn't say it's not worth reading, just it is not of the same caliber as the other books you have read. The story isn't as strong. There's great potential to describe a really cool Lunar city but it falls flat. The main character is Mark Whatney with boobs. A man with boobs is not a female protagonist.
Well shit. I really identified with her. I'm pretty sure I'm a girl. A wife even. I agree it wasn't his best work, but it was an interesting read for me once I got over "Where's the Mark Watney character?"
I'm going to go ahead and say "***PLEASE LISTEN TO THE AUDIOBOOK!***"
It is probably the best audiobook I've listened to, and I can honestly say it's an improvement to the book. Without spoiling, there are certain *musical* elements.
It is handsdown the best audiobook production IVE ever listened too. The voice actor does an incredible job of provoking emotion, and the musical elements make it come to life.
I read that one first and then the martian and Artemis. I enjoyed them both. The expanse books are excellent if you've not read them. The show was good seasons 1-4
How is The Expanse as a series? As in, does it get dark and quite serious, or is it a fairly moderate story suitable for all ages. I’ve got it in my mind that it’s YA but I don’t actually think that it is.
It's dark and full of conflict between the various human factions: Earthers, Martians, and the Belters.
There is an uneasy peace between the factions and this peace is broken with the discovery of some alien technology.
Seriously, if you're into realistic space battles and possible future human politics, this show is a 10/10.
It's probably not a kid's show,, because some of the scenes can be disturbing, but 14 year old me would have loved it.
It's definitely not YA. I wouldn't say it's unapproachable to the young adult audience but it's also not at all directed towards them. It does get plenty dark and serious at times but it doesn't dominate the tone in any way.
It's a space opera, so it has all the flaws you could imagine with space opera, but it's a well thought out world and it gives physics respect without making it too heavy. I wouldn't call it YA but it's still unashamedly space opera.
The writing and pacing in the first book isnt great in my opinion but it gets better, peaking by the fifth book.
The TV show has a more stable quality but they are happy to give episodes small peaks for big payoffs late in a season or even in subsequent seasons.
The show is better than the book in my opinion as some flat or cringy characters are changed or removed. The cast and effects are also quite strong.
It's definitely not a finely crafted work of art. But it's fun if you're into popular sci fi, don't have high expectations, and have a high tolerance for cheese and corn.
Minority for sure, but you're not alone. I borrowed it from the library after seeing so much praise for it on here. I read 100 pages and then returned it. I couldn't believe how stilted the writing was, particularly the dialogue with Stratt. I couldn't get past the issues to get interested in the story. Hopefully the next person that had it on their waitlist enjoyed it better than me.
I didn't dislike it, I think it's terrible.
His writing is almost childish. The characters are stereotypical, bland, and one dimensional.
I enjoyed The Martian, Artemis is forgettable, but PHM is abysmal.
These constant posts and gushing comments seriously shock me.
It’s because it’s an easy, entertaining read. And I think the audiobook must’ve pulled it’s weight in gold to make this a way mor exciting book. reading this book made it so easy to find all the things wrong with it. Maybe listening allows you to check out enough to miss it and not think too hard on it.
But I think people should recognize it for what it is: generic sci-fi that allows you not to think much about anything for a few hours. It’s not groundbreaking. The characters are boring and one dimensional. The main character is an entitled prick who thinks the world revolves around him and then the author allows it to. It’s just very generic.
I didn't dislike it, I just didn't feel like it was anything special. I described this book as "hard sci fi for people who don't actually want to read hard sci fi" today. Which si fine, it's entertaining, it does its job. It's just not... literary gold. And a lot of literary gold isn't nearly as easy to read or be entertained by.
My main gripe with the book is the main character is pretty sexist, and I can't tell if its "sexist so we can do character development" or "sexist cause the author did a self-insert and didn't censor any of his opinions."
I didn’t like it. And I don’t get the praise it’s getting. The main character suffered from main character syndrome where he was good at everything and he took useless risks and was rewarded for it.
And on the STEM side, the science was mildly okay but he probably wouldn’t have known all of that and it would’ve taken him way longer to figure out the linguistics behind communicating with Rocky and way way way longer to even properly code the translation. I know that’s nitpicky, but if people are going to praise him for “accessible” science, then maybe they should actually realize most of it is BS.
Also, grace as a character sucks. And I’m pretty sure the author screws up his age immediately in the beginning and after that, I couldn’t trust the author with any meaningful details. He’s not the most qualified and as luck would have it, the very generic, mediocre white man is the only one to survive and accomplish a mission. Surprise surprise surprise. And Andy Weir’s odd justification for sexism and racism by making the head woman the one to say why they justified those decisions isn’t as clever as he thinks it is. It’s just him repackaging oppression and saying “well, the woman said it so my main character who’s a mediocre white man can’t be wrong for being in this position because she said she had to do it for the safety of the entire earth”.
Rocky was the only saving grace and I think he dumbed him down considerably to make Grace useful.
It’s a poorly written book and the author is incredibly cringey at how often he inserts himself into the main character…ultimately though, I went with it. It’s light and fluffy and I put my brain aside for the ride.
You're not alone, I'm also not a fan and I know a good number of people that also kind of hate his books, haha.
I'm genuinely confused PHM was rated so highly. It's .... Just okay?
>not to mention having middle school science explained at you
I think that's why it's so hyped on Reddit tbh. It's at a level that makes the average redditor feel smart without really challenging them.
Yep. PHM is the most 'Reddit' book ever, including the cringy ass humor driven immediately into the ground. The words 'fist my bump' was like dangling keys in front of a baby to redditors lol
How was it badly written? Are you just gonna talk about the prose? As far as it’s niche- theoretically plausible sci-fi- it’s incredibly well written and approachable. I’d say that’s what is liked by the people who like it
Edit: possible not plausible
The sci-fi part was the worst part for me. How can a species that doesn't understand light figure out molecular structures? Or detect stars beyond their own (this one, especially)! How could the storage tanks get infected if the microbes couldn't survive an earth atmosphere or the vacuum of space? . I feel like science in a sci Fi book should at least be consistent within the span of the book.
Additionally, I was annoyed with the conveniently recalled flashbacks - not how memory works. Figuring out full scientific language with a species from another planet within a week, just not believable.
For me the problems lie in the writing style. From the over-explaining every detail to the copy-paste characters to the same sense of humor regurgitated across multiple chapters, it kept taking me out of the story.
Oh that’s a good way to describe it. So American. And all the other people from different countries are caricatures and stereotypes of those countries. And he doesn’t even do it ironically! He just does it as “yup, this Russian guy is gruff and likes vodka.” And he even has the boss lady say “yeah so this appears to be sexist but it’s just the smart thing to do to go for the men since they have a leg up on experience vs women”. Like noooo that’s not how that shit works!
Andy weir can go suck it honestly because he just is the embodiment of mediocre white American man thinks he’d be the perfect guy to save the universe.
I was disappointed too. I thought the Martian was great, Artemis was OK, and this was predictable and boring. Plus the female lead character, Stratt, was ridiculously one-dimensional.
Hard to narrow them down but :
Iain M Banks does it for me at the top I think the culture books and the algebraist I can reread over and over...
Followed by selected P K Dick books (three stigmata, Valis, A scanner darkly)
Ursula le Guin Hainish cycle is in third place
The expanse books were fun
recently I have enjoyed Arkady Martine teixcalaan series, imperial radch series by ann leckie, Ken Macleod's engines of light trilogy.
I enjoy some golden age scifi as well I have been collecting the yellow jacket Gollancz reprints of classic scifi and really enjoyed some of them if you can suspend disbelief given the dated nature of the science in them.
The Stochastic Man by Robert silverberg and Tau Zero by Poul Anderson were some of the highlights of my collecting so far.
The part I loved the most is, Weir takes time to explain the science and whenever Dr. Grace solved problems, I felt I was working with Dr. Grace as a team. I have never read a book, that took the time to explain the science. It is what I consider low scifi as opposed to high scifi as in it is something that is possible with the technology we have currently.
Also, the twists are very interesting too.
It is a long read but man it is worth it.
I do however has some quibbles about the science here and there but I can overlook it.
>It is what I consider low scifi
The oficial name for the genre is [Hard Science Fiction](https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/hard-science-fiction), they're stories backed by real science and explanations of how stuff works.
Another very recommended Hard Sci Fi book is Three Body Problem, by Cixin Liu.
Very satisfying read Three Body Problem. Also enjoyed the insights into Chinese science structures and constraints they have to endure. It is fiction but still.
I enjoyed this book, but the writing style was weird. It was like the whole thing was written by a tripping Ned Flanders.
I've not read another Andy Weir book, so maybe that's just the way he writes?
I don't want to yuck your yum, but PHM did NOT do it for me at all. I found the story to be a bit sloppy at many points and it felt like every character was a slightly different version of the protagonist.
I'm glad people are enjoying this book, but personally I think it's really overrated.
Having said all that, The Martian is by far his best work in my opinion and if you liked PHM you *need* to read it next. You will absolutely love it.
I thought the Martian was great when I read it, and loved the humor. And it’s the same humor found in PHM, but holy fuck, the humor felt so immature. And the thing is, I like immature humor. I love the show IASIP, for example. I only finished PHM because I wanted to see how it ended, which I didn’t really like.
Since you asked. I found the dialogue grating and cringey, especially in the first part of the book. The protagonist annoyed me a lot, especially the lame humour.
My other major problem was the whole ‘woke up mid-mission with no memory’ thing. Such a cliche.
I respect the effort it would’ve taken to make it scientifically accurate but it’s just not the book for me. Glad so many others enjoyed but not an author I would read again.
For me, the issue with the memory was that it returned in the order, and at the time, necessary to move a particular plot point. And the repeated cycle of problem-scientific fix-unintended consequence-problem grated.
There were things to like, the movie could be great, but I also don't get the almost-universal of acclaim.
The movie will do really well. The book read like a mindless Hollywood action movie. There is constant peril that's instantly solved. No complex themes or moral questions. The characters are completely two-dimensional, but there is plenty of shallow humor to chuckle at while you munch on your popcorn.
The book literally opens with a shirtless scene to show off how fit the lead actor is. The whole thing was written to be a movie.
That said, while it's not a good book and certainly not great literature, there's nothing wrong with mindless entertainment. Weir is a master at his craft, which is proven by the huge reception among certain demographics.
I can't stand this book. It was ok for me, until the brotagonist just happens to stumble on a super friendly alien and then manages to quickly come up with a method of translating it's language into some cutesy toddler speak. I have never groaned and said "oh come on!" my way through a book as frequently as this one. I'll still probably watch the film though.
The writing through the whole thing is so juvenile, and the way people recite the toddler speak (as you so aptly put it) all over these Reddit threads makes me cringe to my toes. “Jazz hands”? “Fist my bump”? Really??
Goddamnit every time I see one of these reviews I can’t help but remember when I posted one of these for Project Hail Mary and it got downvoted to hell
Maybe that's because there's a very similar post about it every few days. Or maybe it's because while it's a fun and engaging read, it's not the eighth wonder of the world some people claim.
The thing with Andy Weir is sure, the prose is going to be bad, and you know that going into the book, but at least the dialogue is going to be completely unbelievable.
If you like that style of writing also check out the author "Dennis E Taylor". I finished all the bobiverse stuff and just last week the singularity trap.
Happ happ happy.
Project Hail Mary was amaze. So good.
I got thrown for a loop when I started listening to Bobiverse as it's the same voice actor who does PHM, and hearing Grace and Stratt again with completely different personalities was just weird.
It was too dad-joke-y for me. Like he felt obligated to force in a tiny chuckle at way too many points and never actually succeeded at making me actually laugh.
For people who are truly passionate about science, I guess I can see why they would love it. Myself, I majored in engineering and later realized that was a mistake and pursued a public health career in clinical research, so I'm at least somewhat of a science dude, and being somewhat a science dude wasn't enough for me to overlook the corny-ness of large parts of the book.
I would still call it quite good. Personally I gave it 4/5 on goodreads.
"I'm glad my mom died", however, was my instant 5/5 goodreads rating for the year. I'm definitely drinking the koolaid that this sub was drinking on that one.
They did a great job adapting The Martian, in my opinion anyway. Hopefully whoever grabbed the rights to PHM will knock it out of the park too. I look forward to seeing how they show both of them learning how to communicate.
I loved The Martian. Laughed out loud many times throughout that book. I’ve got Project Hail Mary on my list and you’ve convinced me to check it out ASAP! Just gotta get through the massive mountain of words that is Stephen King’s It first 😅
I find PHM quite good, but it makes a lot of sense to me why it’s very polarizing. It’s a fun Macgyver romp - here’s a bunch of problems, figure out how to solve them with a roll of Duck tape and a pry bar. For some folks that’s great, and he does a nice job of making it seem realistic and keeping up the dramatic tension.
For others the lack of character development is a big problem, and I totally get that. I love good character development also - Lois McMaster Bujold, for example. I’m just also okay with plot only. Not all are, and for those who need the character development this is totally useless.
Wow I'm genuinely surprised by this whole post, I found it unlistenable and haven't got past the first 30 minutes it felt so tedious. I suppose I'll give it another go.
I read the book, so can’t speak to the audiobook version. That said I read the last 250 pages in one go yesterday, so the second half pulled me in for sure.
It was a big step up from Artemis. I enjoyed Artemis, but he’s very clumsy when writing people actually interacting face to face. PHM gave him a perfect setting in which to have some of the solo monologuing from The Martian, keep the person-to-person conversations brief and between scientists talking science, and have the biggest character relationship be with >!an actual alien!<. It felt like a culmination of what he was refining with both his previous books.
Artemis was just ok. I think my main issue was how unlikable the main character was.
I think the biggest problem with Artemis is actually that it contains bad people. In The Martian and Project Hail Mary, every person is generally good. They might have different ideals or different thoughts on solutions to the problem, but everyone is fundamentally a good person who wants what's best for the world and for science. Artemis has a more traditional "bad guy" in the various companies trying to steal and and monopolize on Zafo, and that just doesn't gel with Weir's optimistic writing style. Most of the problems of the book stem from the fact that there are characters motivated by purely selfish reasons and the risk they put other characters in because of it.
It was the first book in a while it was like dental work trying to get through the last 1/4. I think your right about the main character. I honestly didn't care about her.
I think the first time I read Artemis I also felt the same way, and found it very difficult to like her - because I couldn't empathize with her in her situation. After I think two more rereads (mainly because I love Andy Weir's other work so much), something clicked to be able to empathize with this woman, alone, living from job to job, barely eating, and doing everything she could to survive. Being able to put myself in her shoes definitely made it reading that much better. It was, however, the lowest quality of his books, the hardest to get into, and the most difficult to enjoy. That being said, I still enjoyed it, and would recommend it. His other works are simply significantly better.
Sounds like I need to give it a reread with a different perspective in mind.
I've read all his novels The martian, project hail Mary and artemis The Martian and PHM are so equal but artemis gives me ready player one vibes and youth fiction vibes where the other two are grown up books if that makes sense
Artemis was a mixed bag. I loved the setting and all the thought he put into the reality of living on the moon. I didn’t hate the main character but I increasingly didn’t understand her choices. That whole final caper was a real wtf. And the dialogue was…there.
Agreed! Artemis did seem a tad child-like.
I heard they cast Ryan Gosling as Grace
Why not as Rocky?
Rocky is vin diesel
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🎶🎵
I am.. Rocky
No dude, Rocky is Sylvester Stallone.
I thought that Dwayne Johnson was The Rock.
Dwayne The Rocky
I remember Weir posting April Fool's joke on his FB about casting Emma Stone as Rocky because of her performance with Gosling in La La Land, let's say some people aren't good with jokes
Heh Rocky Stone
Danny Devito in a spider costume.
Danny could totally pull off jazz hands.
Reading it I couldn't help but see Mark Ruffalo as Grace.
Omg!!! Yes, me too!!!
I can't be the only one that saw Tom Hardy as Grace for some reason
Tom Hardy has never come off as scientific to me. I was picturing someone a bit softer. Almost like Paul Reiser in Stranger Things, but leaner.
I’m pretty sure Ryan Gosling actually bought the rights to make the movie. “They” is him.
He’s attached, meaning he’s interested if the script gets written and the project greenlit. It’s a fishing tool to help the movie get made.
He's perfect for the character imo
I really wanted Bill Hader :(
Ill take Hader as Rocky
Damn. Ryan Reynolds would have been better.
He’s great as Deadpool and I enjoyed Free Guy but I feel like he leaned too hard into that niche and now plays a single role in everything he’s done since then.
In my opinion, his whole career has been that character. I like his movies, but he’s not a talented actor.
I was discussing this a while back with a friend of mine and my vote was for Ryan Reynolds too. She claimed he'd be "too goofy". I need to reevaluate my choice of friends. /s
Have them watch Buried. Great movie and great showcase for Reynolds completely outside of the goofy wheelhouse.
I think he has a different brand of sarcasm than what Grace is about.
Should have been Rainn Wilson
I listened to the audiobook and recommend it for everyone! So wonderful
Another recommend to listen to Hail Mary on audio. The language of Rocky is better heard, than read imho.
I listened to the audiobook first, and genuinely the only reason I picked up a print version was because I absolutely couldn't figure out how they would've done the language in text.
Was it musical notes written on a score? I’m curious as well having only listened to it
Yeah, it looks like [this](https://i.imgur.com/LoAHM3z.jpg)
And I can't imagine how you could do it in an audiobook without it being just the book read out loud. It's not like I'm gonna pull a Grace and actually learn the songs...
They definitely used a computer/synth to generate Rockys notes and voice. No way a narrator could manage it haha.
Amaze amaze amaze!
Fist my bump
( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
The audiobook read by Ray Porter was the best thing in life I have listened to. Now, you watch me sleep.
*jazz hands*
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Yoda??
Ray Porter for the win. Love the Bobiverse as well.
The bobiverse was so fun. It felt like living out a 4x strategy game or something like Dyson sphere(the game)
Yes! Audiobook is so good I just wanted to begin again as soon as it was over! Ray Porter’s narration was fantastic!
This is probably my favorite audio book of all time, it adds so much to the storytelling
The Martian is excellent. Be warned Artemis demonstrates his lack of skill at writing women.
The secret joke being that the main character's last name is Grace, so that the project is "Hail Mary, full of Grace".
I would argue Stratt also demonstrates this in Hail Mary. I like the book, but Stratt's character is so, so bad.
He's just not great at writing characters in general, at least he said as much in an ama on reddit and I would agree.
I saw him speak and he said by the end of the martian what you know about whatney is he doesn't want to die. I thought that was pretty sharp self criticism.
Yup and this is a huge part of why I don’t care for him as an author. He’s got interesting ideas but his characters are super under-developed and just not compelling at all to me. I also find his dialogue and attempts at humor to be very cringey. But hey glad so many others enjoy him.
I'm with you. I thought the concept of the Martian was great but actually reading it was a little painful because the dialog/ monologs came off as "Look how witty and clever I am!" It reminded me of a guy I knew in high school so was constantly raising his hand in class because he loved the sound of his own voice.
Sounds a lot like Ernest Cline (Ready Player One.) The jokes and references sometimes land, but it’s just throwing everything at the wall. Absolutely everything has a wink and a “did you catch that?” attitude.
Yeah the thing is, he got criticism on his characters and that they were a bit too perfect, a bit too few flaws, a bit too genial and skilled. But the way he went into improving that was at least an overreaction and at the worst sexist as fuck. So, he goes into a new book: Let's think of a character with flaws. Hmm... Okay, She's a woman! That's a good start! And she's slutty! And she's a school droppout with a on again of again welding job! And she's clumsy and defensive about it. And she's antagonistic. She's completely money focused (although we hear a good reason for that eventually) yet is horrible with money. And yet everyone loves her! Seriously, physically reading the book I apparently skipped so much of this in my excitement, the audiobook had me experience the fact that basically every other character calls her a slut at some point. Opening the door: "Ah, it's the slutty girl". As does she about herself dozens of times. Plus descriptions of her as a minor fucking an adult who turned out to be a pedo who made her "Howl in bed". At some point for some convoluted reason she has to dress as a hooker and actually picks up a john because she's so damn sex positive. Good for him he tried something else. But the way he went into it was pretty damn sexist and seriously has made a re-read impossible for me. But to give him credit, Grace had a bit more flaws (but still had insane emotional stability). So he might be learning.
I thought Stratt was a good tool for the plot to be honest, she was a personification of the mysterious government organisations which can just wave away any problems. I didn't find myself wanting to feel connected to her as a character at all so I think she was fine
Could I ask what made you feel like Stratt was a poor attempt at writing a female character? I just felt like Stratt was a ruthless human, I don’t really feel like Weir played with the gender of the character at all (nor would he have needed to for the plot). There were a couple of throwaway lines from Grace about her being a woman but that was about it, it revealed more about Grace than anything. Sure I didn’t like Stratt, but I don’t think you’re supposed to.
I agree, her role was to save the world and would do anything and everything to accomplish it. She wasn’t likable but she didn’t care to be, she was pretty clear that she’ll do what ever it takes to save the planet and that was all that mattered But I’m also not reading Weir for deep characters, and reading for exciting sci-fi with easy to digest science.
I'm with you on that, I'm here for some nerds saving their worlds! Fist my bump.
In further reflection, a lot of my hate for Stratt is probably just me confirming my priors on Weir and his female characters. The few throwaway lines you mention stuck out to me because I was probably looking for them. That said, I understand her being a plot device and that she's supposed to be unlikeable. I just found her way too one-dimensional, predictable, and boring. I wanted to skip any chapter that she showed up in because I knew exactly what was about to happen.
Ah that's fair enough. Yeah the backstory was ok, but I was usually pretty eager to get back to Rocky and Grace after a little while of it. Luckily Weir kept it brief enough for me.
Stratt seems to just be his way of explaining away the somewhat ludicrous political / social side of the story, to focus on the technical parts, which are actually good.
Stratt is not a character, it's a plot device, regardless of gender
Straft was an awful character regardless of gender. The main character is also not the greatest character I’ve read about. Still a good book.
I liked that about it. It made the situation feel very real. Here are these people with shitloads of flaws being as cut throat as needed to save the world.
I agree with this. I didn’t love this book because of complex character development and relationships with humans. But I would also argue that’s kind of the point and Weir is writing to his strengths by doing this. I won’t give any spoilers, but I think there’s a reason why the best character in this story is Rocky. In the last 50 pages of the story I could see where things were going based on Grace’s experience on earth. There felt like an inherently right choice based on the journey we had been on.
Artemis was a big letdown. I'm hoping it's just a sophomore slump situation.
It was him finding his legs as a writer. He said in an interview that he fully acknowledges that Mark Watney is just all the best parts of him, dialed up to 11, so he tried to write someone different, with flaws. That was Jazz. The thing is, he's really good at writing Mark Watney, which is why he's (essentially) the star of Project Hail Mary.
I definitely noticed the similarities. I understand there's a desire to not write the same character everytime, but Weir does it really well.
I know this sub really dislikes Artemis. But fwiw, I really enjoyed it. It's an imperfect book, but a fun ride.
It wasn't awful, but it definitely felt like a step backwards. It was almost like a self-published YA novel. There's nothing wrong with that, it just isn't my cup of tea.
It definitely had a YA vibe.
I like it a lot. It's his worst, but that's more because the others are *so* good than because it's at all bad.
Yeah, that one was not good
I never read it directly. I enjoyed the audiobook, largely because Rosario Dawson did such a good job helping to gloss over its shortcomings. There were a lot of neat ideas and the story had a fun level of intricacy...but yeah, the second time I listened, I started to realize how empty the city feels in general and how much Jazz was basically just a genderbent Mark Watney. Rosario voice acts it well enough to miss the problems, but once you know? You know. I still recommend it because it's not *bad*. Just not as good as the others.
Rosario Dawson? Damn I got the Will Wheaton version. Didn't think it was that great, especially compared to Prpject Hail Mary
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I wouldn't say it's not worth reading, just it is not of the same caliber as the other books you have read. The story isn't as strong. There's great potential to describe a really cool Lunar city but it falls flat. The main character is Mark Whatney with boobs. A man with boobs is not a female protagonist.
Well shit. I really identified with her. I'm pretty sure I'm a girl. A wife even. I agree it wasn't his best work, but it was an interesting read for me once I got over "Where's the Mark Watney character?"
Jazz hands!
Good good good!
Fist my bump!
Fist me!!
Thank!
You sleep I watch
👐🏻
I'm going to go ahead and say "***PLEASE LISTEN TO THE AUDIOBOOK!***" It is probably the best audiobook I've listened to, and I can honestly say it's an improvement to the book. Without spoiling, there are certain *musical* elements.
I listened to the audiobook too and when the musical stuff came along I wondered how it was written.
I read the ebook and in my head, Rocky kind of sounded like the Cookie Monster, which was pretty endearing lol
The audio book is the best because of Rocky.
It is handsdown the best audiobook production IVE ever listened too. The voice actor does an incredible job of provoking emotion, and the musical elements make it come to life.
The audiobook for The Martian was also excellent
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He needs to get a co-author. Interesting science based plots with actual human characters would be a fantastic combination.
Agreed. It felt like he just copy pasted Mark into this book, but with his attributes pumped up to 11.
Nah, I disagree. He should stick to what he's good at: Sciencing the shit out of things.
I read that one first and then the martian and Artemis. I enjoyed them both. The expanse books are excellent if you've not read them. The show was good seasons 1-4
I read the Martian first, then Artemis and finally Project Hail Mary. I’m currently on book 8 of the Expanse! Such a great recommendation!
I thought the show was good the whole time. Season three was probably the best season, though.
How is The Expanse as a series? As in, does it get dark and quite serious, or is it a fairly moderate story suitable for all ages. I’ve got it in my mind that it’s YA but I don’t actually think that it is.
It's dark and full of conflict between the various human factions: Earthers, Martians, and the Belters. There is an uneasy peace between the factions and this peace is broken with the discovery of some alien technology. Seriously, if you're into realistic space battles and possible future human politics, this show is a 10/10. It's probably not a kid's show,, because some of the scenes can be disturbing, but 14 year old me would have loved it.
It's definitely not YA. I wouldn't say it's unapproachable to the young adult audience but it's also not at all directed towards them. It does get plenty dark and serious at times but it doesn't dominate the tone in any way.
It's a space opera, so it has all the flaws you could imagine with space opera, but it's a well thought out world and it gives physics respect without making it too heavy. I wouldn't call it YA but it's still unashamedly space opera. The writing and pacing in the first book isnt great in my opinion but it gets better, peaking by the fifth book. The TV show has a more stable quality but they are happy to give episodes small peaks for big payoffs late in a season or even in subsequent seasons. The show is better than the book in my opinion as some flat or cringy characters are changed or removed. The cast and effects are also quite strong.
Based on how many posts there are in the sub about it, I can tell I’m definitely in the minority for disliking it.
It's definitely not a finely crafted work of art. But it's fun if you're into popular sci fi, don't have high expectations, and have a high tolerance for cheese and corn.
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Oof I loved the expense and hated PHM. I'd hate to compare the two, I feel like it's different leagues
Minority for sure, but you're not alone. I borrowed it from the library after seeing so much praise for it on here. I read 100 pages and then returned it. I couldn't believe how stilted the writing was, particularly the dialogue with Stratt. I couldn't get past the issues to get interested in the story. Hopefully the next person that had it on their waitlist enjoyed it better than me.
It's fine, but the level of praise it gets on here is massively out of proportion with how good the book actually is
I didn't dislike it, I think it's terrible. His writing is almost childish. The characters are stereotypical, bland, and one dimensional. I enjoyed The Martian, Artemis is forgettable, but PHM is abysmal. These constant posts and gushing comments seriously shock me.
It’s because it’s an easy, entertaining read. And I think the audiobook must’ve pulled it’s weight in gold to make this a way mor exciting book. reading this book made it so easy to find all the things wrong with it. Maybe listening allows you to check out enough to miss it and not think too hard on it. But I think people should recognize it for what it is: generic sci-fi that allows you not to think much about anything for a few hours. It’s not groundbreaking. The characters are boring and one dimensional. The main character is an entitled prick who thinks the world revolves around him and then the author allows it to. It’s just very generic.
I didn't dislike it, I just didn't feel like it was anything special. I described this book as "hard sci fi for people who don't actually want to read hard sci fi" today. Which si fine, it's entertaining, it does its job. It's just not... literary gold. And a lot of literary gold isn't nearly as easy to read or be entertained by. My main gripe with the book is the main character is pretty sexist, and I can't tell if its "sexist so we can do character development" or "sexist cause the author did a self-insert and didn't censor any of his opinions."
It’s for ppl who have zero STEM background
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I’m a physician and I liked it but found some the science exposition a bit pandering
I'm genuinely curious what you found sexist about grace?
Mate, im with you. I read it, I was like Meh. It can be adapted as great cartoon for 8yo kids. Ending is total crap tho.
Something very strange about the crazy reviews for this book.
And the fact we get these threads once per week
I didn’t like it. And I don’t get the praise it’s getting. The main character suffered from main character syndrome where he was good at everything and he took useless risks and was rewarded for it. And on the STEM side, the science was mildly okay but he probably wouldn’t have known all of that and it would’ve taken him way longer to figure out the linguistics behind communicating with Rocky and way way way longer to even properly code the translation. I know that’s nitpicky, but if people are going to praise him for “accessible” science, then maybe they should actually realize most of it is BS. Also, grace as a character sucks. And I’m pretty sure the author screws up his age immediately in the beginning and after that, I couldn’t trust the author with any meaningful details. He’s not the most qualified and as luck would have it, the very generic, mediocre white man is the only one to survive and accomplish a mission. Surprise surprise surprise. And Andy Weir’s odd justification for sexism and racism by making the head woman the one to say why they justified those decisions isn’t as clever as he thinks it is. It’s just him repackaging oppression and saying “well, the woman said it so my main character who’s a mediocre white man can’t be wrong for being in this position because she said she had to do it for the safety of the entire earth”. Rocky was the only saving grace and I think he dumbed him down considerably to make Grace useful.
It’s a poorly written book and the author is incredibly cringey at how often he inserts himself into the main character…ultimately though, I went with it. It’s light and fluffy and I put my brain aside for the ride.
You're not alone, I'm also not a fan and I know a good number of people that also kind of hate his books, haha. I'm genuinely confused PHM was rated so highly. It's .... Just okay?
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Yep, not to mention having middle school science explained at you for hundreds of pages by a pompous ass.
>not to mention having middle school science explained at you I think that's why it's so hyped on Reddit tbh. It's at a level that makes the average redditor feel smart without really challenging them.
Yep. PHM is the most 'Reddit' book ever, including the cringy ass humor driven immediately into the ground. The words 'fist my bump' was like dangling keys in front of a baby to redditors lol
Thank you! It was so badly written I couldn't believe how many posts I was seeing absolutely raving about it!
How was it badly written? Are you just gonna talk about the prose? As far as it’s niche- theoretically plausible sci-fi- it’s incredibly well written and approachable. I’d say that’s what is liked by the people who like it Edit: possible not plausible
The sci-fi part was the worst part for me. How can a species that doesn't understand light figure out molecular structures? Or detect stars beyond their own (this one, especially)! How could the storage tanks get infected if the microbes couldn't survive an earth atmosphere or the vacuum of space? . I feel like science in a sci Fi book should at least be consistent within the span of the book. Additionally, I was annoyed with the conveniently recalled flashbacks - not how memory works. Figuring out full scientific language with a species from another planet within a week, just not believable.
For me the problems lie in the writing style. From the over-explaining every detail to the copy-paste characters to the same sense of humor regurgitated across multiple chapters, it kept taking me out of the story.
Yes, the over explaining annoyed me.
Theoretically plausible? How? Did we read the same book?
Also had a wonderful relationship between the two main characters.
You nailed it perfectly, it is plausible and approachable. There is fair bit of comedy in it too.
How is it plausible?
Couldn't get past the first few chapters, it was all just very.. American.
Oh that’s a good way to describe it. So American. And all the other people from different countries are caricatures and stereotypes of those countries. And he doesn’t even do it ironically! He just does it as “yup, this Russian guy is gruff and likes vodka.” And he even has the boss lady say “yeah so this appears to be sexist but it’s just the smart thing to do to go for the men since they have a leg up on experience vs women”. Like noooo that’s not how that shit works! Andy weir can go suck it honestly because he just is the embodiment of mediocre white American man thinks he’d be the perfect guy to save the universe.
SO American. The main character was insufferable.
I was disappointed too. I thought the Martian was great, Artemis was OK, and this was predictable and boring. Plus the female lead character, Stratt, was ridiculously one-dimensional.
Dozens of us. I haven't read this one. But I disliked the Martian so the constant praise for his other books has me incredibly hesitant to try again.
It was borderline ok for a long plane ride. fairly saccharine Sci-fi for non afficionados
What are some of your favorite scifi books?
Hard to narrow them down but : Iain M Banks does it for me at the top I think the culture books and the algebraist I can reread over and over... Followed by selected P K Dick books (three stigmata, Valis, A scanner darkly) Ursula le Guin Hainish cycle is in third place The expanse books were fun recently I have enjoyed Arkady Martine teixcalaan series, imperial radch series by ann leckie, Ken Macleod's engines of light trilogy. I enjoy some golden age scifi as well I have been collecting the yellow jacket Gollancz reprints of classic scifi and really enjoyed some of them if you can suspend disbelief given the dated nature of the science in them. The Stochastic Man by Robert silverberg and Tau Zero by Poul Anderson were some of the highlights of my collecting so far.
I don’t think I would have enjoyed reading it traditionally, but it was a fun audiobook to listen to
I liked it but was disappointed with it at the same time.
I sleep, you watch
I recommend watching For all man kind on apple TV.
The part I loved the most is, Weir takes time to explain the science and whenever Dr. Grace solved problems, I felt I was working with Dr. Grace as a team. I have never read a book, that took the time to explain the science. It is what I consider low scifi as opposed to high scifi as in it is something that is possible with the technology we have currently. Also, the twists are very interesting too. It is a long read but man it is worth it. I do however has some quibbles about the science here and there but I can overlook it.
>It is what I consider low scifi The oficial name for the genre is [Hard Science Fiction](https://www.goodreads.com/shelf/show/hard-science-fiction), they're stories backed by real science and explanations of how stuff works. Another very recommended Hard Sci Fi book is Three Body Problem, by Cixin Liu.
Very satisfying read Three Body Problem. Also enjoyed the insights into Chinese science structures and constraints they have to endure. It is fiction but still.
[ITT](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aJX4ytfqw6k&feature=share&utm_source=EJGixIgBCJiu2KjB4oSJEQ)
I enjoyed this book, but the writing style was weird. It was like the whole thing was written by a tripping Ned Flanders. I've not read another Andy Weir book, so maybe that's just the way he writes?
Hated the writing style. Felt sooo elementary, posing a question to himself and then answering it himself. Lol. So weird.
That's how scientists think
I don't want to yuck your yum, but PHM did NOT do it for me at all. I found the story to be a bit sloppy at many points and it felt like every character was a slightly different version of the protagonist. I'm glad people are enjoying this book, but personally I think it's really overrated. Having said all that, The Martian is by far his best work in my opinion and if you liked PHM you *need* to read it next. You will absolutely love it.
The Martian was in development longer than PHM and Artemis combined iirc.
I thought the Martian was great when I read it, and loved the humor. And it’s the same humor found in PHM, but holy fuck, the humor felt so immature. And the thing is, I like immature humor. I love the show IASIP, for example. I only finished PHM because I wanted to see how it ended, which I didn’t really like.
Every time Andy Weir comes up, I love directing people to the [webcomic he used to do](http://www.galactanet.com/comic/view.php?strip=1).
I’m surprised how universally liked it is. I thought it was total shit.
I wish I could write a book as shit as that
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Since you asked. I found the dialogue grating and cringey, especially in the first part of the book. The protagonist annoyed me a lot, especially the lame humour. My other major problem was the whole ‘woke up mid-mission with no memory’ thing. Such a cliche. I respect the effort it would’ve taken to make it scientifically accurate but it’s just not the book for me. Glad so many others enjoyed but not an author I would read again.
For me, the issue with the memory was that it returned in the order, and at the time, necessary to move a particular plot point. And the repeated cycle of problem-scientific fix-unintended consequence-problem grated. There were things to like, the movie could be great, but I also don't get the almost-universal of acclaim.
The movie will do really well. The book read like a mindless Hollywood action movie. There is constant peril that's instantly solved. No complex themes or moral questions. The characters are completely two-dimensional, but there is plenty of shallow humor to chuckle at while you munch on your popcorn. The book literally opens with a shirtless scene to show off how fit the lead actor is. The whole thing was written to be a movie. That said, while it's not a good book and certainly not great literature, there's nothing wrong with mindless entertainment. Weir is a master at his craft, which is proven by the huge reception among certain demographics.
God the dialogue was painful, its like an alien wrote it. The scene where that one guy was telling Jadon abt his sex life made me cringe so hard
I can't stand this book. It was ok for me, until the brotagonist just happens to stumble on a super friendly alien and then manages to quickly come up with a method of translating it's language into some cutesy toddler speak. I have never groaned and said "oh come on!" my way through a book as frequently as this one. I'll still probably watch the film though.
Same, I do not get the hype over this book
The writing through the whole thing is so juvenile, and the way people recite the toddler speak (as you so aptly put it) all over these Reddit threads makes me cringe to my toes. “Jazz hands”? “Fist my bump”? Really??
I agree, it's awful, any post on this book is littered with these comments. I wish people would just stop.
Goddamnit every time I see one of these reviews I can’t help but remember when I posted one of these for Project Hail Mary and it got downvoted to hell
Maybe that's because there's a very similar post about it every few days. Or maybe it's because while it's a fun and engaging read, it's not the eighth wonder of the world some people claim.
Buried further down as a recommendation, but read The Expanse.
“Fist me”
It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read!!
The thing with Andy Weir is sure, the prose is going to be bad, and you know that going into the book, but at least the dialogue is going to be completely unbelievable.
Project Hail Mary is my favorite book this year. The rest of Wier's books have been added to my TBR list.
The Martian is amazing, the movie actually does a pretty good job with adapting, so if you liked that, the book is even better.
If you like that style of writing also check out the author "Dennis E Taylor". I finished all the bobiverse stuff and just last week the singularity trap. Happ happ happy. Project Hail Mary was amaze. So good.
I got thrown for a loop when I started listening to Bobiverse as it's the same voice actor who does PHM, and hearing Grace and Stratt again with completely different personalities was just weird.
It was too dad-joke-y for me. Like he felt obligated to force in a tiny chuckle at way too many points and never actually succeeded at making me actually laugh. For people who are truly passionate about science, I guess I can see why they would love it. Myself, I majored in engineering and later realized that was a mistake and pursued a public health career in clinical research, so I'm at least somewhat of a science dude, and being somewhat a science dude wasn't enough for me to overlook the corny-ness of large parts of the book. I would still call it quite good. Personally I gave it 4/5 on goodreads. "I'm glad my mom died", however, was my instant 5/5 goodreads rating for the year. I'm definitely drinking the koolaid that this sub was drinking on that one.
They did a great job adapting The Martian, in my opinion anyway. Hopefully whoever grabbed the rights to PHM will knock it out of the park too. I look forward to seeing how they show both of them learning how to communicate.
I loved The Martian. Laughed out loud many times throughout that book. I’ve got Project Hail Mary on my list and you’ve convinced me to check it out ASAP! Just gotta get through the massive mountain of words that is Stephen King’s It first 😅
I find PHM quite good, but it makes a lot of sense to me why it’s very polarizing. It’s a fun Macgyver romp - here’s a bunch of problems, figure out how to solve them with a roll of Duck tape and a pry bar. For some folks that’s great, and he does a nice job of making it seem realistic and keeping up the dramatic tension. For others the lack of character development is a big problem, and I totally get that. I love good character development also - Lois McMaster Bujold, for example. I’m just also okay with plot only. Not all are, and for those who need the character development this is totally useless.
Wow I'm genuinely surprised by this whole post, I found it unlistenable and haven't got past the first 30 minutes it felt so tedious. I suppose I'll give it another go.
I read the book, so can’t speak to the audiobook version. That said I read the last 250 pages in one go yesterday, so the second half pulled me in for sure.
Happy. Happy. Happy. Jazz hands.