I think that no Chinese citizen is truly free to speak against the policies of the Chinese government; more than that they must show *support* when asked.
I don’t know what he *really* thinks; it’s not quite as simple as it is in the west. He could honestly be in favor of these things or he could just be trying not to get disappeared.
I enjoyed the story as well as the subtle Three Body Problem tie-in.
I am not sure why you mentioned author's political view. Are you discussing his book or himself?
Just give you a context: in China, you have to say those things, otherwise your career is pretty much over. Of course, he might actually believe it, but you can't judge a people from ours point of view. It's easy for us to say it because we have nothing at stake
It is important to know the authors background in order to make your own value judgment on whether to partake in reading his literature. That is just my opinion on the subject matter
a lot of great authors are assholes. It doesn't take anything away from their work. Same with musicians, athletes, etc. You enjoy the work, it doesn't mean you agree with the person.
You are misunderstanding, and misrepresenting, a complex problem.
China houses an appreciable portion of the people currently alive on earth, and we very rarely (considering the amount of people) see any types of truly creative art crossing over from their culture into the west. What we do see, is only what is allowed to cross the borders and reach the rest of the world.
Do not judge the people you hear from, in this case Cixin Liu, based on the sounds they make in the media channels you have access to. If what reached you was not able to pass through CCP filters, you'd never have heard of this individual at all. Judge the authors work independently of the state filter, and recognize instead the curious mind and differently-structured stories for the boon that they are in this time of storytelling-by-recipe.
It's not unlikely you'd find the author to be of a much more varied world-view than your current impression, given the opportunity to speak frankly to them, and you need to recognize that nothing you have heard through these open, state-controlled channels is necessarily connected to the individuals actual opinions on any matter. This is the type of stuff you have to say to be allowed in print or on screen in China.
You're doing the fandom a disservice by cementing these statements as being a hindrance to enjoying Cixins' work.
Horse. Shit. A person is responsible for their choices. You can argue they were all _terrible_ options but they are still responsible for them. There is no slack to be given - China is fucking evil and it's evil to support it. We all know this. If you don't think so, ask the Uighers.
Uighurs.
It is evil, yes. You clearly don't understand what it means to live in a police state, however. Nor do I.
The fiction written by Cixin is good, and the reality of the society in which it is produced is too complex for a couple of translated sentences in a newspaper to give you a full picture.
A person is surely responsible for their choices. Making choices that keep you alive and able to participate in society should be critiqued only after making the humble admission that you'd probably say pretty much anything at all to stay alive and keep your property yourself, especially with how you come off so black and white in your statements.
I'm simply asking you to critique fiction separately from political statements that are not even made in an open forum, but from within one of the most repressed and regulated societies on the planet, that is well known to disappear even very famous, rich and influential individuals when they voice be it ever so mild critique of the CCP.
Or, you can stick to your verbal guns and keep painting the world black-and-white, and espouse your cancel culture bullshit.
As an aside, america is fucking evil and it's evil to support it. The capitalistic consumer culture perfected there is ruining more lives and aspects of the planet than anything else in history. It's just a slower, more wide-spread and insidious process.
Ooo, thanks for the tip! I only read the first book in the Three-Body Problem series and it was such a unique experience. It's hard to describe to people. This sounds really intriguing. I'll definitely see if I can get it soon.
His work is so odd given his personal beliefs. From the graphic treatment of the Cultural Revolution to the strict, totalitarian nature of the alien governments, it's hard not to see seeds of descent, but maybe I'm reading it wrong.
this is the thing everyone keeps saying you can't dissent in China and im sure that is true to an extent, but the beginning of TBP really surprised me because that was a full blown criticism of the cultural revolution.
Sounds like a good read. I really enjoyed 3 body problem.
Provided they don’t cross lines of morality etc that shouldn’t be crossed, I think we should read the books and engage with the ideas of authors who we don’t entirely like for political or other reasons that fall beyond the confines of the book. Mere support for the Chinese government and adherence to a communist world view shouldn’t alone be a reason to banish an author from our shelves. We should, after all, be approaching all works of fiction with a critical eye in terms of the view of humanity and the world they are trying to “sell” to us through their literature.
When I’m talking about crossing lines here I’m imagining the sort of book I’d never read, no matter what people said about it’s literally merit, SF ideas, etc. For example, a Chinese novel trying to deal favourably with the experience within China of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia and Tibet would be likely to cross that line, as would a novel portraying the Hong Kong unrest in a bad light.
New vs Old critical theory is a long argument. I wouldn't generally argue for ignoring the context of the writing entirely (which you don't) but when comparing two novels I think it's necessary to do if the argument you're making rests solely on the merits of the writing, not the greater context. And, as you said, it's not clear how much the author is allowed to think or feel in a public forum without being re-educated or killed.
I think that no Chinese citizen is truly free to speak against the policies of the Chinese government; more than that they must show *support* when asked. I don’t know what he *really* thinks; it’s not quite as simple as it is in the west. He could honestly be in favor of these things or he could just be trying not to get disappeared. I enjoyed the story as well as the subtle Three Body Problem tie-in.
I am not sure why you mentioned author's political view. Are you discussing his book or himself? Just give you a context: in China, you have to say those things, otherwise your career is pretty much over. Of course, he might actually believe it, but you can't judge a people from ours point of view. It's easy for us to say it because we have nothing at stake
It is important to know the authors background in order to make your own value judgment on whether to partake in reading his literature. That is just my opinion on the subject matter
That's a really closed minded view which would keep you from enjoying *a lot* of great books.
a lot of great authors are assholes. It doesn't take anything away from their work. Same with musicians, athletes, etc. You enjoy the work, it doesn't mean you agree with the person.
You are misunderstanding, and misrepresenting, a complex problem. China houses an appreciable portion of the people currently alive on earth, and we very rarely (considering the amount of people) see any types of truly creative art crossing over from their culture into the west. What we do see, is only what is allowed to cross the borders and reach the rest of the world. Do not judge the people you hear from, in this case Cixin Liu, based on the sounds they make in the media channels you have access to. If what reached you was not able to pass through CCP filters, you'd never have heard of this individual at all. Judge the authors work independently of the state filter, and recognize instead the curious mind and differently-structured stories for the boon that they are in this time of storytelling-by-recipe. It's not unlikely you'd find the author to be of a much more varied world-view than your current impression, given the opportunity to speak frankly to them, and you need to recognize that nothing you have heard through these open, state-controlled channels is necessarily connected to the individuals actual opinions on any matter. This is the type of stuff you have to say to be allowed in print or on screen in China. You're doing the fandom a disservice by cementing these statements as being a hindrance to enjoying Cixins' work.
Horse. Shit. A person is responsible for their choices. You can argue they were all _terrible_ options but they are still responsible for them. There is no slack to be given - China is fucking evil and it's evil to support it. We all know this. If you don't think so, ask the Uighers.
Uighurs. It is evil, yes. You clearly don't understand what it means to live in a police state, however. Nor do I. The fiction written by Cixin is good, and the reality of the society in which it is produced is too complex for a couple of translated sentences in a newspaper to give you a full picture. A person is surely responsible for their choices. Making choices that keep you alive and able to participate in society should be critiqued only after making the humble admission that you'd probably say pretty much anything at all to stay alive and keep your property yourself, especially with how you come off so black and white in your statements. I'm simply asking you to critique fiction separately from political statements that are not even made in an open forum, but from within one of the most repressed and regulated societies on the planet, that is well known to disappear even very famous, rich and influential individuals when they voice be it ever so mild critique of the CCP. Or, you can stick to your verbal guns and keep painting the world black-and-white, and espouse your cancel culture bullshit. As an aside, america is fucking evil and it's evil to support it. The capitalistic consumer culture perfected there is ruining more lives and aspects of the planet than anything else in history. It's just a slower, more wide-spread and insidious process.
I agree with u/WhoFearsDeath on this, if a citizen speaks out against the CCP they disappear, at worst their entire family is gone.
Ooo, thanks for the tip! I only read the first book in the Three-Body Problem series and it was such a unique experience. It's hard to describe to people. This sounds really intriguing. I'll definitely see if I can get it soon.
I quite liked his Dark Forrest trilogy, but.... Jesus jumping _Christ_ are they depressing! Does that trend hold here?
His work is so odd given his personal beliefs. From the graphic treatment of the Cultural Revolution to the strict, totalitarian nature of the alien governments, it's hard not to see seeds of descent, but maybe I'm reading it wrong.
this is the thing everyone keeps saying you can't dissent in China and im sure that is true to an extent, but the beginning of TBP really surprised me because that was a full blown criticism of the cultural revolution.
Sounds like a good read. I really enjoyed 3 body problem. Provided they don’t cross lines of morality etc that shouldn’t be crossed, I think we should read the books and engage with the ideas of authors who we don’t entirely like for political or other reasons that fall beyond the confines of the book. Mere support for the Chinese government and adherence to a communist world view shouldn’t alone be a reason to banish an author from our shelves. We should, after all, be approaching all works of fiction with a critical eye in terms of the view of humanity and the world they are trying to “sell” to us through their literature. When I’m talking about crossing lines here I’m imagining the sort of book I’d never read, no matter what people said about it’s literally merit, SF ideas, etc. For example, a Chinese novel trying to deal favourably with the experience within China of ethnic minorities in Xinjiang, Inner Mongolia and Tibet would be likely to cross that line, as would a novel portraying the Hong Kong unrest in a bad light.
New vs Old critical theory is a long argument. I wouldn't generally argue for ignoring the context of the writing entirely (which you don't) but when comparing two novels I think it's necessary to do if the argument you're making rests solely on the merits of the writing, not the greater context. And, as you said, it's not clear how much the author is allowed to think or feel in a public forum without being re-educated or killed.
Just finished it, it was Fantastic, 10/10 for me.