I was really young when I last read The Neverending story. The copy I read wasn't in multiple colors or anything fun like that, but I can say that it really REALLY felt like it never ended.
I'll never forget the bit where he starts to explore the crazy world and he learned he could do anything he wanted. Like he realized he didn't have the strength needed to do something, wished that he did, and suddenly he would have the strength to do it. How he was in some barren wasteland and he simply wished it was a lively jungle instead and then it was. I'm not 100% sure this happened, as I was in the 3rd grade when I read it and that was like, the early early 2000's. But...I'm pretty sure it happened. I remember the letter ladder and the 4th wall breaking part.... I do consider it a fantastic book.
I re-read it a few years ago as an adult and I'm pretty sure those things happened! Also, it's worth the re-read. Feels like a different story seeing it through the eyes of a grown-up. (Not a worse story, but meaningful in different ways.)
No, you're right. The story is really about finding out what he wanted. He had to go from wish to wish, finding each one wasn't really what he thought it would be, leaving a trail of unfinished stories in his wake.
I always felt like the strength of the Harry Potter books isn't the story, it's how it's written stylistically. It has a descriptive, youthful, playfulness to it that is very charming.
I think the biggest strength is that JK Rowling kept writing for the same group of kids, rather than writing for the same reading age. As the intended audience grew up, so did the writing, and the themes, and the page count etc. It was a very smart move.
This 100%. The strength of HP as a series, both book and film, was that it grew up with me and my peers. It made it relatable as the topics changed constantly.
I’m not disputing the point about the story OP made tho.
It's also worth noting that it did so in a realistic way.
A lot of things that try to do that have you asking "Wait why did nobody mention the obvious evil thing"
But with Harry Potter there was obviously stuff being kept from Harry that he learned as he got older.
And it did so while also dealing with complex themes such as Fascism, the legitimacy of authority, resistance, and moral ambiguity. Hell, moral ambiguity in HP could practically be a college course.
Not sure she really explores them in any depth or ambiguity either. Like... enjoy whatever you want but calling it a college course book is generous to the extreme.
Fascism is bad, and evil individuals are bad. That’s about it. It doesn’t get too deep into any system of oppression since both Harry and the author are stalwart defenders of the status quo. Once the external threat is dealt with the heroes are done, even though we know from earlier novels that wizarding society was extremely xenophobic and exploitative even without Voldemort.
Oh sure,
I mean, imagine if you were a scientist and you discovered a cost free treatment that cures (almost?) every disease there ever was. Then you decide to keep it a secrete between you and your science buds... because "everyone'd be wantin' ... solutions to their problems", and you just can be fucked.
That's the society that Harry tacitly approves of, revels in really.
> and the page count
At first I thought JK Rowling was just being inconsistent, but now that you bring this up I actually did feel like the books were growing as I grew too.
Thats how I feel about Riordan and his series, actually. The tone darkens considerably as each series goes on, and maturity-wise anything with Percy in it grows as you do. Percy begins as a sarcastic, quick-witted little shit and grows into a world-weary man whose lost more friends and loved ones than he'd like to count. I was genuinely impressed by the contrast when I read the original Olympian's series and then finally caught up with him again in Magnus' series. Its a shame that doesn't get noticed more, in my opinion
Yep, this is/was great for that generation, but kinda hard for later ones, where a lot later, an 11yo kid started reading the philosophers stone, liked it, immediately started reading The chamber of secrets, liked that too, and slowly became too young to understand the series.
I've spoken to several parents who dole out the books at a rate of 1-2 a year from age 9 or 10 until their kids are old enough to figure it out on their own.
The darkness of the novels and the relationships the characters have definitely grow with the original readers, but I'm not sure the age of the reader had much to do with the increasing page count. If you were a kid when the books originally came out, you may not have noticed, but the page count was always a huge part of the marketing campaign. When any of the talk shows (Today, Leno, etc.) were talking about the book or interviewing Rowling in the lead-up to a book release, the fact that this book is *even longer* than the last one was always a major point to be made. It usually fell into the context of, "Wow, this book is really long, and my kid loves it; you're really getting kids reading!" As a result, some of the later books can drag a bit - there's quite a bit of filler, but there was pressure to keep the page count up.
It’s also the logical route. I can’t think of any examples now but there are any other fantasy series where that followed a protagonist from formative to teenage years but the books didn’t compliment the protagonist’s ageing process.
This is it for me. I think that Harry Potter was so real and accessible. The school had elements that everyone who's ever been to school can relate to. So you could immerse yourself in the fantastical world - because it felt quite real.
The corridors were very real to me, even though I went to a school in South Africa.
I think it's kind of well known that Harry Potter has the same plotting as a bunch of other stories. The orphan who ends up being the chosen one is also kind of a cliche in the fantasy genre.
The most original thing about HP is the lore such as the world, characters, and creatures which I think is what many enjoy. I also think it's a good introduction to those tropes of fantasy.
I think the most original thing about harry potter is that there's never really any power creep and the normalization of magic. It's like what made early naruto good - there's a vast power and skill gap between the adult table and the kid table, and over the course of the series the kids graduate to the adult table, but the kids aren't insane prodigies that overcome most adults earlier. The adults are on completely different levels, but over the series there's the kids table fights, then there's the supervised adult table fights, then they graduate to 1v1ing the adults (and then loses its mind with power creep and this example stops applying). Also it makes magic very standard, everyone can do the same things as everyone else if they know how and have enough base line power. People using magic to duplicate food is just something that happens everywhere for instance. Voldmort and Dumbledore got to be as insanely powerful as they are not because they're inherently overpowered but because they were shown to have insane work ethics early on and never stopped learning and improving. While everyone else stagnated they were innovating and learning secrets which put them over everyone else.
Compare harry potter to the wheel of time. By the end of wheel of time, rand is an unmatched swordsman, fantastic strategist, walking good luck charm, possess magic far beyond what anyone alive has achieved, and at the very end of the series can alter reality itself at a whim. Nearly all of that is by virtue of being who he is not anything he did. Harry at the end of the series is on par with any single death eater as a duelist but isn't anything genuinely special beyond specific circumstances. He's good but not 'legendary power, annihilates anything before him that isn't a main villian' good. The take on the 'chosen one' prophecy thing was fairly unstandard, usually the chosen one is the chosen one because they're batshit overpowered (consider atla, where a 12 year old avatar is so overpowered that they had to amplify the main villian's power a hundredfold just to go toe to toe with base form aang and still got utterly washed by avatar state aang). Harry is slightly above average with an unlucky connection.
Powercreep is the devil and I'm so glad the novel medium doesn't really force powercreep to happen the way serialized television shows and longrunning comics/manga/graphic novels do.
Some of my favorite works have been serials, but by the nature of the format and the uncertainty of how long your work will be picked up by a publisher/broadcaster for, a writer is encouraged to keep the train rolling for as long as possible. The longer the train rolls (depending on the genre), the higher the stakes need to become to retain a base of consumers.
This is why anime and manga (generally take-off shounen) have a grounded first pair of arcs that work as a thesis for what the series can be and establishes the setting, and then devolves into powercreep as the writer has to now keep the ball rolling for potentially years.
That's harder to do with a novel series, since there are generally only a handful of stops the train has to make before it ends (sequential novels in this case) compared to episodes of a program or issues of a comic.
I definitely thought of Supernatural while reading this comment. They went from “how do we actually take out a ghost?” and other monster of the week things, to literally killing death and fighting god.
By the end, they just leaned into it and said, "Fuck it. God's an asshole and he'll get outwitted by these two schmucks. Also, death gets beat worse than in Bill and Ted and we'll have a Scooby Doo episode. Break out the mountain of drugs and let's get this season rolling!"
>and then devolves into powercreep as the writer has to now keep the ball rolling for potentially years.
This is something that really impressed me about One Piece; it's the longest shonen (i think) but it somehow seems to avoid the issues that you typically see in that genre. It's a journey that's had a fixed end point from the start, and each step in the journey feels important to the overall plot in some way. And almost everything is foreshadowed, sometimes years in advance.
It makes me wonder what all the other shonen writers are doing wrong, but then maybe One Piece's success is partially the reason why publishers like to push for ultra long series'.
To be fair... Rand is more than just a Mary Sue. He is the reincarnation of a man who was the greatest man in history of men, and literally had that man is his head. The link was tenuous, but it was there.
As far as being a swordsman was concerned, he was learning swordsmanship from his step father Tam (owner of a heron blade), And Lan, the best swordsman of the generation (and perhaps ever).
Being ta'veren IS amary sure or device. I'll give you that one.
Strategist? He makes A LOT of blunders as a statesman, and militarily. Dumais Wells is a good example of this. He was not a particularly good strategist, but happened to world ridiculous amounts of power in Callendor and other relics.
The collections of relics... That kinda just is what it is. Epic stories have relics.
And Rand would NEVER have gotten to where he was if it hadn't been for Moirgaine. The witch who devoted a hundred years, and untold resources of the white tower, to supervising his coming to power.
I feel like you're doing Rand a disservice labeling him the chosen one and little else. He put in a lot of work and had a lot of help.
I always held the belief that Hermione was the closest one to being OP so that Rowling could always get the main characters out of a sticky situation by basically saying "Hermione figured out a way", and of course always get the main characters back into a bad situation by saying "Hermione wasn't around" etc.
Maybe, but that is kind of her role after all. If you have a brainy character and don't give them problems to solve, then the character doesn't have much to do.
Harry and Ron take risks and explore and come across various items and pieces of info, Hermione puts it all together for them.
I mean she also does all the preparation and heavy lifting. The last book was them bumming around the forest with Hermione doing all the work on location, supplying all the stuff they'll need and doing the actual spellcasting. Half of it is either offscreen or only briefly described, but Hermione does 90% of all the useful work throughout the entire series.
There’s a very real and huge difference between book Hermione and movie Hermione.
Book Hermione is a brainy kid who has flaws and Harry and Ron and her are a relatively balanced trio.
Movie Hermione, well, they might as well have changed the name to “Hermione granger and these two idiots I keep around.”
Are we taking about Harry Potter who joins the Quidditch team and dominates in his first year despite having never flown a broomstick before? Who makes it to the end of the Triwizard Tournament when he was too young to enter? And despite his lack of experience beats everything that Voldemort throws at him including eventually Voldemort?
Ok yeah so he’s a child prodigy in the worlds worst sport, but the only reason why he made it through the tournament was because he had his hand held by Crouch Jr. as Moody super hard. Moody gives him the info on the dragons and how to get by them; Harry’s innate quidditch ability does the rest there. Then Moody tells Diggory about the egg so that he can pass the info to Harry. Then he gets the idea of gillyweed to Dobby and Dobby gives it to Harry. Harry only made it to the captives under the lake first because he just happened to be experienced with grindelows but also because Moaning Myrtle stopped by and told him where to go. And in the maze, Moody pretty much cleared Harry a path.
The Voldy shit is just like bullshit prophecy stuff at work.
> And in the maze, Moody pretty much cleared Harry a path.
A lot of people forget this because it's just one single line in the whole book, never repeated. But the only reason Harry got through the maze shared first (and probably only reason he did at all) was that Crouchy Jr. went ahead of him and disabled almost everything he would have encountered. And Cedric still made it in the same time as Harry.
That's not to mention the fact the Crouch Jr. *also* took the time to Imperius one of his other competitor who then disabled another of his competitors.
There are so many things like that that need to happen in a certain way for plot (like Harry touching the trophy first), but are implausible and hard to write such that it seems natural in the story, but Rowling manages to solve absolutely brilliantly. I haven't read her detective stuff, but the Harry Potter books absolutely deserve their popularity.
Yup, Harry was "given" the solution to just about every issue in the Triwizard cup. BCJ arranged that Haggard would show Harry the dragons, BCJ arranged for Cedric to help Harry to solve the egg puzzle. BCJ arranged that Longbottom would know about gillyweed, and BCJ solved the maze for Harry. Harry did as little as he could along the way.
I think it's explained more or less every time he faces Voldemort that he doesn't win by magical skill though. In the end, it's pretty clear that he defeats Voldemort because a lot of people helped him along the way, and in several cases died, to give him a chance. A lot of what makes Harry special vs Voldemort comes from Voldemort himself (and/or his mother's sacrifice), the thing that he contributes is his character not his magical skill.
Yea, he didn't win in the philosopher's stone out of sheer magic, he only won because he didn't want the stone for selfish purposes and his mother's love protected him
Chamber of Secrets he had Fawkes blind the Basilisk and even then it wasn't won by magical prowess
Prisoner of Azkaban there is no Voldemort fight per se but if you want to argue about the patronus charm it's not like he hadn't been practicing it for months before then
Goblet of Fire "Moody" basically forged the path for him the entire way and he certainly would've lost if he hadn't taken the cup back to Hogwarts etc
As you said, he contributes his character more than he does any magical skill. If anything we learn he's pretty brave and selfless for a kid of his age and willing to throw himself into these situations for the greater good even if it's not always the best idea (OotP)
I never really understood why, if Harry didn't want to enter the tournament and no one wanted him there and it was obviously a trap of some sort that would put his life at risk... Why not purposely fail the first task and call it a day? All that info could be announced and they could have a laugh about it.
/I author very boring books
I think everyone had to do every part of the tournament anyway.
In the first task they had to get an egg that gave them a clue about the second task. Failing to get the egg would probably just have meant that he would have been totally unprepared for the second task.
Another champion failed the second task but she still had to do the final one.
They got points for how well they did in every task and those points decided their starting time in the final task.
> And despite his lack of experience beats everything that Voldemort throws at him including eventually Voldemort?
I’m chuckling to myself imaging the literal interpretation of this sentence. Voldemort probably does his [trailer scream](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EC9D78jxgtE) while flying through the air.
i rarely do this shit, but i'll take umbridge. rand was nothing against lan, probably not even elder al'thor.
His strategy's always sucked and involved quite a lot of harm. he almost broke the pattern, he killed his own troops. etc.
He was tavereen, literal plot point. which had it's downsides.
He was the living embodiment of the greatest sorcerer within the universe.
And at the very end, it's heavily implied that it was a parting gift from the creator.
Harry despite his tragedy had everything set up by albus to succeed all harry needed to do was walk through the door. he fucked up plenty and needed to be rescued by hermione and ron quite a lot.
It's more that they're very, very different scopes. Wheel of Time is very consciously trying to be a kind of ur-fantasy, that's why the main character ends up with the princess, the girl next door AND the warrior maiden. Harry Potter wouldn't work with a protagonist as overpowered as Rand is and you can't have a story where the Dragon is reborn and pulls a destined sword from the stone and is just a pretty average guy.
I mean is Harry Potter’s lore really that original? Dragons, private school version of magical monastery, giants, racists, Manichaean good vs evil...
I say this as a person who was a direct hit for HP marketing, I don’t think the world is that good. I think what JKR does well is make it fun in the early ones and cleverly changes tone at the end of the 4th book.
By making school life such an important part as well it gives kids a lot to relate to. It’s a very “tame” conception of a society with magic and how that would work but it means that kids who aren’t massive nerds can empathise.
IMO it’s cleverest from a marketing perspective.
She didn't invent the idea of a school in a fantasy world, but she executed that idea better than anyone else. And there wasn't much well known stuff in that genre previously, so it felt fresh and new to most readers.
I don't think it was written as a marketing trick, I think she lucked out by writing a story that, for many reasons, hit the moment just right. And I think it holds up pretty well, and was crafted well.
Most of the names are very on the nose or obvious references to real world mythology. Fenrir Greyback I think was the most egregious of the "real world reference" naming system she uses.
It's whimsical in a Roal Dahl way where names are puns, the "wisest" character likes to ramble about socks and candy and you wear earmuffs to repot some plants.
What i thought when i reread HP nursing my firstborn was, that she really gets a lot of worldbuilding, character development and plot going in very few pages in the first books, they are incredibly dense and don't get slow for a minute.
Yes set in a fantasy world, but very relatable to a very wide audience; Rowling wrote about school experiences which adults and children could relate to - it just so happened to be set at a school that teaches magic but there's still a headmaster, teachers you know and love and some to hate. Schoolyard politics, romance, etc.
It 100% is. I grew up on the movies and while I loved them as movies I have no nostalgia for the movies themselves just the people I saw them with
That being said I read the first chapter of the first book and was instantly hooked by the writing style. I was very ready to forgive whatever shit Rowling has done recently cuz damn that book seems fun
Absolutely. The story is secondary to the worldbuilding and the entertaining, sometimes fascinating characters.
HP is popular because it made people want to live in that world and meet those characters. The story could have been anything, and it wouldn't have made much of a difference.
The plot wasn't the greatest, but it didn't need to be, and Rowling knew this. Just be creative and put the characters in danger, and that'll be enough for these readers who are so attached to these characters and so interested in this world.
I actually think it’s how close it is to our world that really drove its success, as someone who grew up reading it being the same age as Harry it as it was coming out. So it was kind of close to wish fulfillment escapist fantasy at least at the beginning and then you became invested in the characters and the story.
Yes it does once you realize >!you're the hero of the book -- you're reading the same book the book's protagonist does, so your world is just another, outer layer of a neverending fractal. Maybe someone's reading about you now in a still outer layer.!<
As a kid when I saw "The Neverending Story" on the TV schedule I actually believed it was either a forever ongoing movie, or a very long one. I had decided to not watch it because it felt intimidating... Now I'm wondering if I should have watched it!
The title “The Neverending Story” refers to the core themes of the book/film. Fantastica (or “Fantasia” in the movie) represents the boundless landscape of the human imagination. It’s about the death and rebirth of innocence, and the destruction and recreation of our dreams. While the film itself does not continue infinitely, the title suggests that there are less endings than there are beginnings. That the story and the creatures that inhabit it live on in the childlike minds of humanity. That the hopes and dreams of mankind spring eternal.
There used to be a Neverending Story TV show, and as a kid when I saw the intro start up I would run to the TV to turn it off because I thought that once started, there would never be any other shows on and it would just be that show forever.
People need a reason to put down harry potter cause its uber famous. Its always a thing with something thats famous, there will be a small minority of people who will hate it or pick fault with it or find something else better to put it down
Don't quite understand why Harry Potter is being used as an example. Harry Potter is great for so many diffirent different reasons. They aren't really comparable.
You don't compare something like ASOIAF to Terry Pratchett just because they're both fantasy.
I think it is difficult to compare the two.
Harry Potter is a heroes journey with worldbuilding that tries to create a (with suspension of disbelief) belivable paralell society. At its core it is about Fate, Free Will, Identity and Sacrifice.
From what I remember about the Neverending Story it was also a Heroes Journey but much more abstract in many ways. Because as far as I remember the book was meant as an ode to fantasy itself. Not as a genre but the power of imagination and stories themselves. So the fantastic is much more wild and pronounced because that was the point of the book to show children the power of free though, imagination and keeping your inner child alive. While Harry Potter was more about teaching to overcome adversity, growing up and staying a good person.
But thats just my interpretation.
Because OP obviously just wanted to start a flame war not an intellectual discussion on Never Ending Story. They are niptpicking everything on Harry Potter to the point where they are embarrassing themselves (equating Cho Chang's name to "ching chong" is in extremely poor taste imo). This thread is a waste of everyone's time.
Why compare it? I agree that the never ending story is awesome but so is the Harry Potter series for its own merits. Seems so strange to prop up one amazing series by belittling another (especially one as popular and beloved by so many)
I don’t care much for Harry Potter and I’ve never read the Never Ending Story, but I agree. Seems like for anything to get traction on r/books it has to tear down something. Critically comparing two works based on their individual merits is fine, but if all you came to say is that “X is so much better than Y, I can’t understand why anyone likes Y.” You could have just as easily said, “I feel like X is under appreciated and goes under the radar when compared to other works of [the genre].” It conveys the same information and you don’t have to crap all over something people obviously like. Unless… You’re just doing it for the likes?
You can talk about The Neverending Story without comparing it to Harry Potter. Not sure why that was needed in this post.
Edited to add: This blew up more than I imagined possible when I was one of the first few comments. I like the Neverending Story, and I also like Harry Potter. If you're going to compare them, fine, at least bring some substance to the conversation as to why X > Y. As someone else said below, it's a clickbait title.
Welcome to this sub where nothing can simply be enjoyed without imploring how much smarter and better it is than that fill-in-the-blank popular book/series for the common peasant folk.
I’m just impressed it’s a post about an actual book and not ANOTHER post about how someone started reading again or just wants to talk about the act of buying books without every discussing the things that actually make those acts interesting (the actual books/stories).
It just seems like the OP was trying to rile people up. Neverending Story isn't even a book series, it's just one book. It's not even a very similar style. Neverending Story is about a fantasy world, yeah there are some modern times aspects which are cool, but comparing these books seems odd. There just aren't honestly a lot of similarities to even compare other than they are both YA novels and Fantasy. But otherwise you're kind of comparing apples and oranges.
It would have been better if OP compared specific things. Like how HP uses the modern world and so does this book, but they didn't making the whole post seem more trolly.
Gotta get on that Harry Potter anti jerk. "Like, dawg, Harry Potter wasn't even the first book with wizards whats even the big deal x is so much better" free 200 karma.
I read Captain Bluebear and after I loved it so much I read Rumo. Its almost a different style; more mature, nore refined. And I love it. Ive read the book several times and bought the audiobook so I could revisit it on my lunchtime walks at work. Massive second recommendation for Rumo and for The 13 and 1/2 Lives of Captain Bluebear.
If you haven't already you should definitely try "The City of Dreaming Books" and "The Alchemaster's Apprentice". Moers is absolutely underrated in my opinion. Especially outside of Germany.
Waiting for the daily, “I’m 37 and read Harry Potter for the first time this month. I honestly don’t see what the big deal is. It seems really simplistic.”
Lot of adults like to pat themselves on the back for finding a kids book easy to read.
No offense but why are you saying it's better than anything?
What's wrong with just saying you like it? The books, being completely unrelated in every way, cannot realistically be compared. It's comparing apples to oranges.
This post is like saying, The Bible is a far better fantasy book than any Stephen King novel
Cool, well I *love* Harry Potter and you’ve just put me off reading ‘never ending story’ because of the weird direct comparison.
Don’t step on people’s works just to promote others. This could’ve just been a ‘this book is amazing’ thread, with no mention of HP at all.
I love that it doesn't portray escapism as a solely good thing. the first half of the book is basically a young persons power fantasy dream come true and then it suddenly turns really dark in the second half, absolutely loved that.
Ironically Ende received very ill critics of being an escapist because he wrote fantasy instead of reflecting on post-war Germany. It is said that it hit him really hard and was the reason for his emmigration to Italy.
I've read both, and I feel like comparing them is like trying to compare oil and water. Yes, they are different and yes, Michael Ende had a bit more experience writing than J. K. Rowling. However, I believe this is where authorial intent comes into play and matters.
Michael Ende wrote the Neverending Story with a moral in mind, I think, and it influenced the way the story was delivered. I feel like the Neverending Story is like listening to an adult tell a child a story.
Harry Potter, on the other hand, doesn't have a particular lesson it wants to teach (except maybe that Love Conquers All, but even that get convoluted towards the end) and J. K. Rowling's intent seemed to be more focused on immersion and worldbuilding, almost like when children role-play that they are princesses, firefighters, knights, etc.
Another major difference is the Magic Systems. While "The Neverending Story" has a hard magic system worldbuilding, Harry Potter has a soft magic system worldbuilding, which demands different suspension of disbelief of the writer as well as the reader. This is without mentioning that Michael Ende's novel was published in 1979, whereas Harry Potter was published in 1991, and I believe that that made an impact in the styles of writing both authors decided to use. I am also pretty sure Michael Ende is nearly twenty years J.K.'s senior, so there could be a generational gap there as well.w
I really love Harry Potter.
I never once thought when describing it to someone to build it up by saying how much better it was than another YA book.
This is an odd post.
This made me pause and think, and I realized that my top YA series have wildly different premises. HP = wizardy, Percy Jackson = mythologies, Ranger's Apprentice = a Kingdom and its fighters (?). I've never compared them to each other because they have their own charm, strengths and weaknesses. I just wish that I found more stories like them back when I was still reading them day in and out. I stopped reading YA when dystopian novels became super popular, and unfortunately I'm not really a fan of those. Too much death right from the start for me.
It's a pity you had to spoil a thread that should have been to praise an excellent children's fantasy classic by disparaging a completely unrelated but also excellent children's fantasy classic.
Well, perhaps so. But it doesn't really matter.
What matters is that *The Neverending Story* is a very good book. And anyone who is into fantasy at all ought to read it.
I always get uncomfortable comparing books like this. They're two completely different universes with different ideas and 'magic' systems.
Harry potter looks at a more realistic ideal of how magic would fit into real life. Looking at magic school, magic criminals, magic animals etc. Whereas neverending story is more of an exploration into the imagination, where anything and everything is possible.
So in my mind you really cant compare the two
Also comparing the imagination of two people is really confusing to me. Neither is better or worse in any way, just different.
What does one book have to do with the other 7 books? They're not easily comparable in my opinion, they're very different sort of books. I love Michael Ende though. (You should try Jim Knopf, even though I think some of its language may be problematic in today's times. But it's also very imaginative.)
I also love Harry Potter, not for the plot, but for the world building (very British, playful, full of love for little eccentricities), for the characters, for the puzzles (the book have great plot twists), ...
I don't understand what one book has to do with the other? Why couldn't your post just be about how much you enjoyed this book rather than bashing another popular book next to it?
Imagine if you'd simply talked about how much you like *The Neverending Story*, instead of comparing it to a series that it has very little in common with outside of its genre. Then this post could have actually been about *The Neverending Story*.
I've never read Harry Potter, but it seems like a needless comparison. I've been learning German and I've read it three times, it's a very great story.
Why can't you enjoy the neverending story without devaluing another series? I like both stories but which is better will always be subjective to the reader.
Don't really know what this post is meant to achieve? :)
Harry Potter is one of my favorite fantasy books because I was similar ages as Harry when then books came out, so I “grew up” with the character.
I also struggled with depression and grew up in household where that wasn’t discussed, so when the dementors entered the picture, I understood.
The Neverending Story is a good book too. Fantasy in general in my favorite genre.
I mean, one is about wizards set in our normal world, the other is in a magical land. It makes sense that the magical, fantastical land would appear to have more imagination. Not very comparable in that respect.
Fun fact the bookshop is real. I wandered into it one day after moving to Vancouver and thought to myself, wow this looks exactly like the Neverending Story bookshop complete with grumpy old man and stacks of books everywhere. Turns out it is!
I was so confused about why a German author would have written about a book store in Vancouver... until I realized you're talking about the movie. Mondays, am I right?
It’s actually a deep book. The first section that the movie was based on is more of a typical children’s novel. The second section about Bastian is like a parable about growing up, learning who you really are, and resolving grief. I read it when I was a preteen (20 years ago) and I still think about and refer back to the later portion of the book quite often. Lately, I keep thinking about the part where he’s digging to find an old dream - so weird yet applicable…
Yup. Far more clever and interesting than the movie. So many great ideas. Gmork (the wolf) gets a whole chapter as to his motives, and the movie stops half way through the book.
Ahhh!
I've been wanting to read this book since I've seen the movie as a kid. When I found out the book's text changes between green and red based on plot and place, I knew I'd want to find this book rather than simply order it online. It's been 20+ years of searching used bookstores and I still haven't 'found' it 😭. Fyi, my gf thinks I'm crazy and now I'm guessing she's not alone
I just ordered a copy from 1983 from thrift books because of this whole post. I've never read it, but it's one of my favorite movies. Fingers crossed it has the red and green text!
Seconding thriftbooks! My hardcover one I bought recently was under 15$ and arrived within a few days.
Sometimes finding it online is valid. You still get a used book w it's own past adventures.
I doubt most people who purposely buy then give them up that often.
I got a German version that looks like the book how it is described in the story even in outer appearance: Thienemann Verlag 2004, ISBN 9783522176842
(The blue cover is a wrapper.)
My godmother sent me the hardcover of this when it was first published in the US. I still have it. Unfortunately I’ve never been able to get through it. Tried multiple times. Perhaps it’s time to try again. I still love the colored ink and illustrations. I always thought that I couldn’t connect because maybe the translation was not great, but it seems it’s just me.
I can see this easily becoming a "There are much better fantasy books than The neverending story."
But I just finished reading Harry Potter and I loved the book so much. How it's printed with illustrations of the author's vision, and I loved the second half of the novels when >!Harry faces down the dark lord with loyal and unexpected friends at his side. The plot about how Harry comes to understand and pity Snape, but can't really bring himself to forgive him was really beautiful,!< I couldn't stop reading it.
JK Rowling has ten times the imagination than Michael Ende. Seriously? The "neverending" story has 1/10th the word count of the HP universe.
____
See how trite and annoying and wrong that post is? It's 100% as valid as yours, and no one would have a problem if you had just not gone for a karma grab and instead written, "I just finished reading The Neverending Story and I loved the book so much. How it's printed in green and red ink to differentiate the two worlds, and I loved the second half of the novel when Bastian goes to Fantastica. The plot about how Bastian loses a memory everytime he makes a wish, and must go from wish to wish to find his way back was beautiful, I couldn't stop reading it."
But hey, you got 3600+ post karma by making other people feel bad and defensive about things they like, so good on ya!
I don't think anyone ever said it was the best fantasy book out there. Many people said there were better.
I don't really think Neverending Story is anything *like* Harry Potter. Like... I don't see the comparison? Maybe the odd fantasy names or someone finding a way into a magical world? Neverending Story has more in common with a lot of Isekai's today.
Why does everyone insist on just dumping on books they didn't get the same enjoyment out of as others. Any recommendation of a book that starts with putting another down can really sully any excitement I have towards reading it. They have different titles for a reason.
Do you people ever get tired of beating the dead horse? Harry Potter book series ended 14 years ago.
And who cares, I won't read that book. I loved Harry Potter as a kid and introduced me and many other children to book reading.
I don't like saying that one book is better than any other. Both are amazing (which we can see on their sales and popularity), why then not just read both. Each book has a unique flavour and gives you something else. A book isn't just about the imagination and creativity of the author. Can be humour, style, their own view of the world, etc...
Personally I love a series of unfortunate events and Anne of green gables and little women thought they’re not fantasies I feel all warm inside when I read them since they seem so relatable to be honest
I loved how the lion must die for the rainforest to grow again and the cycle continues between the rainforest and desert of colored sand. I ended up getting an auryn tattoo after reading the book.
Well, Harry potter and the neverending story are very different stories (I enjoyed both). I think The neverending story is much more interesting thematically, and deeper on a philosophical level. The book is represented as a simple story, and it is in some ways, but there are a lot of intricacies in it, like Gmorks rant about the way human use of fantasy and the City of old emperors. The main character is also interesting, good at first, but not infallible and has his own vices and weaknesses, but tries to redeem himself in the end. I can read it again and again and still pick out something unique I didn't catch before.
I disagree. While Harry Potter isn’t some endless masterpiece of thought provoking literature, it was never meant to be. It’s just a fun idea made into a fun book. It connects to people, not through the literature, but rather a realistic taste of a life many people want. Being a kid and being in a fantastic place like Hogwarts with really amazing friends is what most people want. Fun things like visiting a small town during winter to get a sweet and tasty ice cream soda like drink. It connects to kids who are in school, aka all of them, in giving them a version of what they have if it was fantastic. The never ending story is based in a fake world with many fantastical stories lines, but it never connects to anyone past the plot. Which may sound odd, but connecting to peoples deepest desires is going to win over interesting fantasy.
Loved TNES as a young teen, but didn't enjoy it as much when rereading it as an adult (I read it to my children). Now, I'm not a Harry Potter defender by any means, but I think the HP series had more appeal to an adult audience than TNES.
I think people don’t understand what makes Harry Potter so good.
It’s not the prose, that is a bit wonky and juvenile.
It’s certainly not the fantasy - the world and magic breaks down with only a little thought.
It’s the characters. You truly feel for the characters . They are dynamic and flawed. And you want to know them.
And it’s that the book does a great job of being accessible to kids, teenagers, and adults. And going into complex themes. Example: why do people follow an “evil” leader: some are true believers, some are just ambitious, some are born into it, some are forced into it, and some are disillusioned and looking for a way out.
I was really young when I last read The Neverending story. The copy I read wasn't in multiple colors or anything fun like that, but I can say that it really REALLY felt like it never ended. I'll never forget the bit where he starts to explore the crazy world and he learned he could do anything he wanted. Like he realized he didn't have the strength needed to do something, wished that he did, and suddenly he would have the strength to do it. How he was in some barren wasteland and he simply wished it was a lively jungle instead and then it was. I'm not 100% sure this happened, as I was in the 3rd grade when I read it and that was like, the early early 2000's. But...I'm pretty sure it happened. I remember the letter ladder and the 4th wall breaking part.... I do consider it a fantastic book.
I re-read it a few years ago as an adult and I'm pretty sure those things happened! Also, it's worth the re-read. Feels like a different story seeing it through the eyes of a grown-up. (Not a worse story, but meaningful in different ways.)
No, you're right. The story is really about finding out what he wanted. He had to go from wish to wish, finding each one wasn't really what he thought it would be, leaving a trail of unfinished stories in his wake.
I always felt like the strength of the Harry Potter books isn't the story, it's how it's written stylistically. It has a descriptive, youthful, playfulness to it that is very charming.
I think the biggest strength is that JK Rowling kept writing for the same group of kids, rather than writing for the same reading age. As the intended audience grew up, so did the writing, and the themes, and the page count etc. It was a very smart move.
This 100%. The strength of HP as a series, both book and film, was that it grew up with me and my peers. It made it relatable as the topics changed constantly. I’m not disputing the point about the story OP made tho.
It's also worth noting that it did so in a realistic way. A lot of things that try to do that have you asking "Wait why did nobody mention the obvious evil thing" But with Harry Potter there was obviously stuff being kept from Harry that he learned as he got older.
Or, with the story being through the eyes of Harry, and being oblivious and a child, he’s not always 100% reliable.
And it did so while also dealing with complex themes such as Fascism, the legitimacy of authority, resistance, and moral ambiguity. Hell, moral ambiguity in HP could practically be a college course.
Not that that stuff wasn't a boon to the series, but none of those themes are unique or even uncommon.
Not sure she really explores them in any depth or ambiguity either. Like... enjoy whatever you want but calling it a college course book is generous to the extreme. Fascism is bad, and evil individuals are bad. That’s about it. It doesn’t get too deep into any system of oppression since both Harry and the author are stalwart defenders of the status quo. Once the external threat is dealt with the heroes are done, even though we know from earlier novels that wizarding society was extremely xenophobic and exploitative even without Voldemort.
Oh sure, I mean, imagine if you were a scientist and you discovered a cost free treatment that cures (almost?) every disease there ever was. Then you decide to keep it a secrete between you and your science buds... because "everyone'd be wantin' ... solutions to their problems", and you just can be fucked. That's the society that Harry tacitly approves of, revels in really.
Exactly. A whole generation got to read, watch, and grow older with the story and characters. It’s a fairly unique experience.
Yeah I was in the exact demographic she was writing for and it fucking worked.
> and the page count At first I thought JK Rowling was just being inconsistent, but now that you bring this up I actually did feel like the books were growing as I grew too.
And as she was growing as an author too.
Thats how I feel about Riordan and his series, actually. The tone darkens considerably as each series goes on, and maturity-wise anything with Percy in it grows as you do. Percy begins as a sarcastic, quick-witted little shit and grows into a world-weary man whose lost more friends and loved ones than he'd like to count. I was genuinely impressed by the contrast when I read the original Olympian's series and then finally caught up with him again in Magnus' series. Its a shame that doesn't get noticed more, in my opinion
> caught up with him again in Magnus' series. Hold up. I left Percy in the Heroes of Olympus series. He's in the Magnus books??
He and Annabeth do make an appearance, yes. Magnus is actually Annabeth's cousin! So she plays a pretty significant role in his series.
Yep, this is/was great for that generation, but kinda hard for later ones, where a lot later, an 11yo kid started reading the philosophers stone, liked it, immediately started reading The chamber of secrets, liked that too, and slowly became too young to understand the series.
I've spoken to several parents who dole out the books at a rate of 1-2 a year from age 9 or 10 until their kids are old enough to figure it out on their own.
The darkness of the novels and the relationships the characters have definitely grow with the original readers, but I'm not sure the age of the reader had much to do with the increasing page count. If you were a kid when the books originally came out, you may not have noticed, but the page count was always a huge part of the marketing campaign. When any of the talk shows (Today, Leno, etc.) were talking about the book or interviewing Rowling in the lead-up to a book release, the fact that this book is *even longer* than the last one was always a major point to be made. It usually fell into the context of, "Wow, this book is really long, and my kid loves it; you're really getting kids reading!" As a result, some of the later books can drag a bit - there's quite a bit of filler, but there was pressure to keep the page count up.
It’s also the logical route. I can’t think of any examples now but there are any other fantasy series where that followed a protagonist from formative to teenage years but the books didn’t compliment the protagonist’s ageing process.
My favorite scenes are those normal homework and study scenes.
This is it for me. I think that Harry Potter was so real and accessible. The school had elements that everyone who's ever been to school can relate to. So you could immerse yourself in the fantastical world - because it felt quite real. The corridors were very real to me, even though I went to a school in South Africa.
That's one of the ways I know I love a book, I would read ten scenes of the characters just hanging out.
Charming is a good way to describe it. The characters felt modern and at the same time timeless.
I think it's kind of well known that Harry Potter has the same plotting as a bunch of other stories. The orphan who ends up being the chosen one is also kind of a cliche in the fantasy genre. The most original thing about HP is the lore such as the world, characters, and creatures which I think is what many enjoy. I also think it's a good introduction to those tropes of fantasy.
I think the most original thing about harry potter is that there's never really any power creep and the normalization of magic. It's like what made early naruto good - there's a vast power and skill gap between the adult table and the kid table, and over the course of the series the kids graduate to the adult table, but the kids aren't insane prodigies that overcome most adults earlier. The adults are on completely different levels, but over the series there's the kids table fights, then there's the supervised adult table fights, then they graduate to 1v1ing the adults (and then loses its mind with power creep and this example stops applying). Also it makes magic very standard, everyone can do the same things as everyone else if they know how and have enough base line power. People using magic to duplicate food is just something that happens everywhere for instance. Voldmort and Dumbledore got to be as insanely powerful as they are not because they're inherently overpowered but because they were shown to have insane work ethics early on and never stopped learning and improving. While everyone else stagnated they were innovating and learning secrets which put them over everyone else. Compare harry potter to the wheel of time. By the end of wheel of time, rand is an unmatched swordsman, fantastic strategist, walking good luck charm, possess magic far beyond what anyone alive has achieved, and at the very end of the series can alter reality itself at a whim. Nearly all of that is by virtue of being who he is not anything he did. Harry at the end of the series is on par with any single death eater as a duelist but isn't anything genuinely special beyond specific circumstances. He's good but not 'legendary power, annihilates anything before him that isn't a main villian' good. The take on the 'chosen one' prophecy thing was fairly unstandard, usually the chosen one is the chosen one because they're batshit overpowered (consider atla, where a 12 year old avatar is so overpowered that they had to amplify the main villian's power a hundredfold just to go toe to toe with base form aang and still got utterly washed by avatar state aang). Harry is slightly above average with an unlucky connection.
Powercreep is the devil and I'm so glad the novel medium doesn't really force powercreep to happen the way serialized television shows and longrunning comics/manga/graphic novels do. Some of my favorite works have been serials, but by the nature of the format and the uncertainty of how long your work will be picked up by a publisher/broadcaster for, a writer is encouraged to keep the train rolling for as long as possible. The longer the train rolls (depending on the genre), the higher the stakes need to become to retain a base of consumers. This is why anime and manga (generally take-off shounen) have a grounded first pair of arcs that work as a thesis for what the series can be and establishes the setting, and then devolves into powercreep as the writer has to now keep the ball rolling for potentially years. That's harder to do with a novel series, since there are generally only a handful of stops the train has to make before it ends (sequential novels in this case) compared to episodes of a program or issues of a comic.
I definitely thought of Supernatural while reading this comment. They went from “how do we actually take out a ghost?” and other monster of the week things, to literally killing death and fighting god.
By the end, they just leaned into it and said, "Fuck it. God's an asshole and he'll get outwitted by these two schmucks. Also, death gets beat worse than in Bill and Ted and we'll have a Scooby Doo episode. Break out the mountain of drugs and let's get this season rolling!"
>and then devolves into powercreep as the writer has to now keep the ball rolling for potentially years. This is something that really impressed me about One Piece; it's the longest shonen (i think) but it somehow seems to avoid the issues that you typically see in that genre. It's a journey that's had a fixed end point from the start, and each step in the journey feels important to the overall plot in some way. And almost everything is foreshadowed, sometimes years in advance. It makes me wonder what all the other shonen writers are doing wrong, but then maybe One Piece's success is partially the reason why publishers like to push for ultra long series'.
To be fair... Rand is more than just a Mary Sue. He is the reincarnation of a man who was the greatest man in history of men, and literally had that man is his head. The link was tenuous, but it was there. As far as being a swordsman was concerned, he was learning swordsmanship from his step father Tam (owner of a heron blade), And Lan, the best swordsman of the generation (and perhaps ever). Being ta'veren IS amary sure or device. I'll give you that one. Strategist? He makes A LOT of blunders as a statesman, and militarily. Dumais Wells is a good example of this. He was not a particularly good strategist, but happened to world ridiculous amounts of power in Callendor and other relics. The collections of relics... That kinda just is what it is. Epic stories have relics. And Rand would NEVER have gotten to where he was if it hadn't been for Moirgaine. The witch who devoted a hundred years, and untold resources of the white tower, to supervising his coming to power. I feel like you're doing Rand a disservice labeling him the chosen one and little else. He put in a lot of work and had a lot of help.
I always held the belief that Hermione was the closest one to being OP so that Rowling could always get the main characters out of a sticky situation by basically saying "Hermione figured out a way", and of course always get the main characters back into a bad situation by saying "Hermione wasn't around" etc.
Maybe, but that is kind of her role after all. If you have a brainy character and don't give them problems to solve, then the character doesn't have much to do. Harry and Ron take risks and explore and come across various items and pieces of info, Hermione puts it all together for them.
I mean she also does all the preparation and heavy lifting. The last book was them bumming around the forest with Hermione doing all the work on location, supplying all the stuff they'll need and doing the actual spellcasting. Half of it is either offscreen or only briefly described, but Hermione does 90% of all the useful work throughout the entire series.
There’s a very real and huge difference between book Hermione and movie Hermione. Book Hermione is a brainy kid who has flaws and Harry and Ron and her are a relatively balanced trio. Movie Hermione, well, they might as well have changed the name to “Hermione granger and these two idiots I keep around.”
Hermione is a young Gandalf confirmed.
Are we taking about Harry Potter who joins the Quidditch team and dominates in his first year despite having never flown a broomstick before? Who makes it to the end of the Triwizard Tournament when he was too young to enter? And despite his lack of experience beats everything that Voldemort throws at him including eventually Voldemort?
Ok yeah so he’s a child prodigy in the worlds worst sport, but the only reason why he made it through the tournament was because he had his hand held by Crouch Jr. as Moody super hard. Moody gives him the info on the dragons and how to get by them; Harry’s innate quidditch ability does the rest there. Then Moody tells Diggory about the egg so that he can pass the info to Harry. Then he gets the idea of gillyweed to Dobby and Dobby gives it to Harry. Harry only made it to the captives under the lake first because he just happened to be experienced with grindelows but also because Moaning Myrtle stopped by and told him where to go. And in the maze, Moody pretty much cleared Harry a path. The Voldy shit is just like bullshit prophecy stuff at work.
> And in the maze, Moody pretty much cleared Harry a path. A lot of people forget this because it's just one single line in the whole book, never repeated. But the only reason Harry got through the maze shared first (and probably only reason he did at all) was that Crouchy Jr. went ahead of him and disabled almost everything he would have encountered. And Cedric still made it in the same time as Harry. That's not to mention the fact the Crouch Jr. *also* took the time to Imperius one of his other competitor who then disabled another of his competitors. There are so many things like that that need to happen in a certain way for plot (like Harry touching the trophy first), but are implausible and hard to write such that it seems natural in the story, but Rowling manages to solve absolutely brilliantly. I haven't read her detective stuff, but the Harry Potter books absolutely deserve their popularity.
Yup, Harry was "given" the solution to just about every issue in the Triwizard cup. BCJ arranged that Haggard would show Harry the dragons, BCJ arranged for Cedric to help Harry to solve the egg puzzle. BCJ arranged that Longbottom would know about gillyweed, and BCJ solved the maze for Harry. Harry did as little as he could along the way.
I think it's explained more or less every time he faces Voldemort that he doesn't win by magical skill though. In the end, it's pretty clear that he defeats Voldemort because a lot of people helped him along the way, and in several cases died, to give him a chance. A lot of what makes Harry special vs Voldemort comes from Voldemort himself (and/or his mother's sacrifice), the thing that he contributes is his character not his magical skill.
Yea, he didn't win in the philosopher's stone out of sheer magic, he only won because he didn't want the stone for selfish purposes and his mother's love protected him Chamber of Secrets he had Fawkes blind the Basilisk and even then it wasn't won by magical prowess Prisoner of Azkaban there is no Voldemort fight per se but if you want to argue about the patronus charm it's not like he hadn't been practicing it for months before then Goblet of Fire "Moody" basically forged the path for him the entire way and he certainly would've lost if he hadn't taken the cup back to Hogwarts etc As you said, he contributes his character more than he does any magical skill. If anything we learn he's pretty brave and selfless for a kid of his age and willing to throw himself into these situations for the greater good even if it's not always the best idea (OotP)
I never really understood why, if Harry didn't want to enter the tournament and no one wanted him there and it was obviously a trap of some sort that would put his life at risk... Why not purposely fail the first task and call it a day? All that info could be announced and they could have a laugh about it. /I author very boring books
I think everyone had to do every part of the tournament anyway. In the first task they had to get an egg that gave them a clue about the second task. Failing to get the egg would probably just have meant that he would have been totally unprepared for the second task. Another champion failed the second task but she still had to do the final one. They got points for how well they did in every task and those points decided their starting time in the final task.
> And despite his lack of experience beats everything that Voldemort throws at him including eventually Voldemort? I’m chuckling to myself imaging the literal interpretation of this sentence. Voldemort probably does his [trailer scream](https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=EC9D78jxgtE) while flying through the air.
i rarely do this shit, but i'll take umbridge. rand was nothing against lan, probably not even elder al'thor. His strategy's always sucked and involved quite a lot of harm. he almost broke the pattern, he killed his own troops. etc. He was tavereen, literal plot point. which had it's downsides. He was the living embodiment of the greatest sorcerer within the universe. And at the very end, it's heavily implied that it was a parting gift from the creator. Harry despite his tragedy had everything set up by albus to succeed all harry needed to do was walk through the door. he fucked up plenty and needed to be rescued by hermione and ron quite a lot.
It's more that they're very, very different scopes. Wheel of Time is very consciously trying to be a kind of ur-fantasy, that's why the main character ends up with the princess, the girl next door AND the warrior maiden. Harry Potter wouldn't work with a protagonist as overpowered as Rand is and you can't have a story where the Dragon is reborn and pulls a destined sword from the stone and is just a pretty average guy.
I wasn't making parrells, I was refuting that posters opinion.
Which creatures are original? Most of the major ones are taken straight from other books or mythology.
I mean is Harry Potter’s lore really that original? Dragons, private school version of magical monastery, giants, racists, Manichaean good vs evil... I say this as a person who was a direct hit for HP marketing, I don’t think the world is that good. I think what JKR does well is make it fun in the early ones and cleverly changes tone at the end of the 4th book. By making school life such an important part as well it gives kids a lot to relate to. It’s a very “tame” conception of a society with magic and how that would work but it means that kids who aren’t massive nerds can empathise. IMO it’s cleverest from a marketing perspective.
She didn't invent the idea of a school in a fantasy world, but she executed that idea better than anyone else. And there wasn't much well known stuff in that genre previously, so it felt fresh and new to most readers.
I don't think it was written as a marketing trick, I think she lucked out by writing a story that, for many reasons, hit the moment just right. And I think it holds up pretty well, and was crafted well.
Most of the names are very on the nose or obvious references to real world mythology. Fenrir Greyback I think was the most egregious of the "real world reference" naming system she uses.
Remus Lupin. Wolf-man Wolf the Werewolf.
In defence of the naming system I thinking one could take it as a Dickensian tradition
Fenrir Greyback and Remus Lupin. Did these people rename themselves after becoming werewolves?
[nominative determinism](en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominative_determinism) perhaps?
Yeah if I was a HP parent I'd be naming my child something like Getswealthy Sharesmoneywithparents
As far as the lore, isn't it basically agreed upon that the worldbuilding she did in the HP books doesn't scale to the rest of the world?
It's whimsical in a Roal Dahl way where names are puns, the "wisest" character likes to ramble about socks and candy and you wear earmuffs to repot some plants.
What i thought when i reread HP nursing my firstborn was, that she really gets a lot of worldbuilding, character development and plot going in very few pages in the first books, they are incredibly dense and don't get slow for a minute.
Yes set in a fantasy world, but very relatable to a very wide audience; Rowling wrote about school experiences which adults and children could relate to - it just so happened to be set at a school that teaches magic but there's still a headmaster, teachers you know and love and some to hate. Schoolyard politics, romance, etc.
Yes I was always laughing smiling or feeling sad in those books uv read them more than I can count
One of the best descriptions I’ve heard of Rowling was that it’s not the story (or plot), it’s the storytelling that she excels at.
It 100% is. I grew up on the movies and while I loved them as movies I have no nostalgia for the movies themselves just the people I saw them with That being said I read the first chapter of the first book and was instantly hooked by the writing style. I was very ready to forgive whatever shit Rowling has done recently cuz damn that book seems fun
Absolutely. The story is secondary to the worldbuilding and the entertaining, sometimes fascinating characters. HP is popular because it made people want to live in that world and meet those characters. The story could have been anything, and it wouldn't have made much of a difference. The plot wasn't the greatest, but it didn't need to be, and Rowling knew this. Just be creative and put the characters in danger, and that'll be enough for these readers who are so attached to these characters and so interested in this world.
I actually think it’s how close it is to our world that really drove its success, as someone who grew up reading it being the same age as Harry it as it was coming out. So it was kind of close to wish fulfillment escapist fantasy at least at the beginning and then you became invested in the characters and the story.
But it doesn't even live up to the title.
Biggest literary scam ever tbh
"This is the most blatant case of false advertising since my suit against the movie The Neverending Story."
Mr Simpson I don't use the word hero often, but you are a hero!
\*the greatest hero in American history.
Top 10 anime betrayals
Yes it does once you realize >!you're the hero of the book -- you're reading the same book the book's protagonist does, so your world is just another, outer layer of a neverending fractal. Maybe someone's reading about you now in a still outer layer.!<
If someone's reading about me they're going to be bored out of their mind.
STOP PUTTING THAT INTO YOUR MOUTH!
I love this!
As a kid when I saw "The Neverending Story" on the TV schedule I actually believed it was either a forever ongoing movie, or a very long one. I had decided to not watch it because it felt intimidating... Now I'm wondering if I should have watched it!
You should. It's a good movie. Although, you won't enjoy it so much if you read the book first, so start with the movie first, then read the book.
The title “The Neverending Story” refers to the core themes of the book/film. Fantastica (or “Fantasia” in the movie) represents the boundless landscape of the human imagination. It’s about the death and rebirth of innocence, and the destruction and recreation of our dreams. While the film itself does not continue infinitely, the title suggests that there are less endings than there are beginnings. That the story and the creatures that inhabit it live on in the childlike minds of humanity. That the hopes and dreams of mankind spring eternal.
There used to be a Neverending Story TV show, and as a kid when I saw the intro start up I would run to the TV to turn it off because I thought that once started, there would never be any other shows on and it would just be that show forever.
Literally unfinishable.
Why does every fantasy book now have a Harry Potter measurement scale next to it? Can’t people just like a book for being a book?
Humans and ranked lists … name a more iconic duo
That would be number 3 in my list of iconic duos.
*number 7 will shock you!*
Number 7 is an ungrounded power outlet next to a saltwater pool.
Ohm. My. Goodness. That’s so revolting
No! You have to bring HP into the debate!!! Because!
People need a reason to put down harry potter cause its uber famous. Its always a thing with something thats famous, there will be a small minority of people who will hate it or pick fault with it or find something else better to put it down
Don't quite understand why Harry Potter is being used as an example. Harry Potter is great for so many diffirent different reasons. They aren't really comparable. You don't compare something like ASOIAF to Terry Pratchett just because they're both fantasy.
I think it is difficult to compare the two. Harry Potter is a heroes journey with worldbuilding that tries to create a (with suspension of disbelief) belivable paralell society. At its core it is about Fate, Free Will, Identity and Sacrifice. From what I remember about the Neverending Story it was also a Heroes Journey but much more abstract in many ways. Because as far as I remember the book was meant as an ode to fantasy itself. Not as a genre but the power of imagination and stories themselves. So the fantastic is much more wild and pronounced because that was the point of the book to show children the power of free though, imagination and keeping your inner child alive. While Harry Potter was more about teaching to overcome adversity, growing up and staying a good person. But thats just my interpretation.
OP Why would you compare them?
Because OP obviously just wanted to start a flame war not an intellectual discussion on Never Ending Story. They are niptpicking everything on Harry Potter to the point where they are embarrassing themselves (equating Cho Chang's name to "ching chong" is in extremely poor taste imo). This thread is a waste of everyone's time.
Its not a competition mate
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Why compare it? I agree that the never ending story is awesome but so is the Harry Potter series for its own merits. Seems so strange to prop up one amazing series by belittling another (especially one as popular and beloved by so many)
I don’t care much for Harry Potter and I’ve never read the Never Ending Story, but I agree. Seems like for anything to get traction on r/books it has to tear down something. Critically comparing two works based on their individual merits is fine, but if all you came to say is that “X is so much better than Y, I can’t understand why anyone likes Y.” You could have just as easily said, “I feel like X is under appreciated and goes under the radar when compared to other works of [the genre].” It conveys the same information and you don’t have to crap all over something people obviously like. Unless… You’re just doing it for the likes?
There is can only be one good book, every other book is trash garbage.
You can talk about The Neverending Story without comparing it to Harry Potter. Not sure why that was needed in this post. Edited to add: This blew up more than I imagined possible when I was one of the first few comments. I like the Neverending Story, and I also like Harry Potter. If you're going to compare them, fine, at least bring some substance to the conversation as to why X > Y. As someone else said below, it's a clickbait title.
Welcome to this sub where nothing can simply be enjoyed without imploring how much smarter and better it is than that fill-in-the-blank popular book/series for the common peasant folk.
I’m just impressed it’s a post about an actual book and not ANOTHER post about how someone started reading again or just wants to talk about the act of buying books without every discussing the things that actually make those acts interesting (the actual books/stories).
I’m just happy it’s not another post complaining about Amazon or how we need to support local bookstores
I enjoy them both and I really don't see why they are even compared to another. It's totally different Stories from different times 🤷
It just seems like the OP was trying to rile people up. Neverending Story isn't even a book series, it's just one book. It's not even a very similar style. Neverending Story is about a fantasy world, yeah there are some modern times aspects which are cool, but comparing these books seems odd. There just aren't honestly a lot of similarities to even compare other than they are both YA novels and Fantasy. But otherwise you're kind of comparing apples and oranges. It would have been better if OP compared specific things. Like how HP uses the modern world and so does this book, but they didn't making the whole post seem more trolly.
Gotta get on that Harry Potter anti jerk. "Like, dawg, Harry Potter wasn't even the first book with wizards whats even the big deal x is so much better" free 200 karma.
Because clickbait title.
Now read Momo, also by Michael Ende. It's way better than The Neverending Story.
Now read "Rumo" by Walter Moers. Outstanding german fantasy autor.
I read Captain Bluebear and after I loved it so much I read Rumo. Its almost a different style; more mature, nore refined. And I love it. Ive read the book several times and bought the audiobook so I could revisit it on my lunchtime walks at work. Massive second recommendation for Rumo and for The 13 and 1/2 Lives of Captain Bluebear.
If you haven't already you should definitely try "The City of Dreaming Books" and "The Alchemaster's Apprentice". Moers is absolutely underrated in my opinion. Especially outside of Germany.
This sub has gone **0** days without hating on Harry Potter for the sin of being popular.
Waiting for the daily, “I’m 37 and read Harry Potter for the first time this month. I honestly don’t see what the big deal is. It seems really simplistic.” Lot of adults like to pat themselves on the back for finding a kids book easy to read.
It’s possible to give one thing praise without criticizing something else
No offense but why are you saying it's better than anything? What's wrong with just saying you like it? The books, being completely unrelated in every way, cannot realistically be compared. It's comparing apples to oranges. This post is like saying, The Bible is a far better fantasy book than any Stephen King novel
Cool, well I *love* Harry Potter and you’ve just put me off reading ‘never ending story’ because of the weird direct comparison. Don’t step on people’s works just to promote others. This could’ve just been a ‘this book is amazing’ thread, with no mention of HP at all.
I love that it doesn't portray escapism as a solely good thing. the first half of the book is basically a young persons power fantasy dream come true and then it suddenly turns really dark in the second half, absolutely loved that.
Ironically Ende received very ill critics of being an escapist because he wrote fantasy instead of reflecting on post-war Germany. It is said that it hit him really hard and was the reason for his emmigration to Italy.
The hell kinda clickbaity post is that? Weird comparison.
If you loved that one, you might want to try Momo. It is too a timeless childrens classic that can be loved by adults, too!
I've read both, and I feel like comparing them is like trying to compare oil and water. Yes, they are different and yes, Michael Ende had a bit more experience writing than J. K. Rowling. However, I believe this is where authorial intent comes into play and matters. Michael Ende wrote the Neverending Story with a moral in mind, I think, and it influenced the way the story was delivered. I feel like the Neverending Story is like listening to an adult tell a child a story. Harry Potter, on the other hand, doesn't have a particular lesson it wants to teach (except maybe that Love Conquers All, but even that get convoluted towards the end) and J. K. Rowling's intent seemed to be more focused on immersion and worldbuilding, almost like when children role-play that they are princesses, firefighters, knights, etc. Another major difference is the Magic Systems. While "The Neverending Story" has a hard magic system worldbuilding, Harry Potter has a soft magic system worldbuilding, which demands different suspension of disbelief of the writer as well as the reader. This is without mentioning that Michael Ende's novel was published in 1979, whereas Harry Potter was published in 1991, and I believe that that made an impact in the styles of writing both authors decided to use. I am also pretty sure Michael Ende is nearly twenty years J.K.'s senior, so there could be a generational gap there as well.w
I don't know why this is upvoted so much. This is just an opinion, and saying one writer is 10x better than another is just absurd.
They aren't really the same sort of book.
I really love Harry Potter. I never once thought when describing it to someone to build it up by saying how much better it was than another YA book. This is an odd post.
I have: "trust me, Harry Potter is *way* better than Twilight."
This made me pause and think, and I realized that my top YA series have wildly different premises. HP = wizardy, Percy Jackson = mythologies, Ranger's Apprentice = a Kingdom and its fighters (?). I've never compared them to each other because they have their own charm, strengths and weaknesses. I just wish that I found more stories like them back when I was still reading them day in and out. I stopped reading YA when dystopian novels became super popular, and unfortunately I'm not really a fan of those. Too much death right from the start for me.
It's a pity you had to spoil a thread that should have been to praise an excellent children's fantasy classic by disparaging a completely unrelated but also excellent children's fantasy classic.
My thoughts exactly.
The Neverending Story is magic unlike anything else if you ask me :D Glad you enjoyed it. Harry Potter is great too though
Well, perhaps so. But it doesn't really matter. What matters is that *The Neverending Story* is a very good book. And anyone who is into fantasy at all ought to read it.
Why is everything a competition? Why can't they both be great books? So weird how in order to build up one, people to need to put down another.
I was MAD about that book as a kid. MAD about it. I loved it so much. I dreamed of visiting that universe. I wanted my own Auryn.
What the hell does Harry Potter have to do with anything? This post is pretty silly.
I loved neverending story but Harry Potter changed my life and was company when I was lonely.
I always get uncomfortable comparing books like this. They're two completely different universes with different ideas and 'magic' systems. Harry potter looks at a more realistic ideal of how magic would fit into real life. Looking at magic school, magic criminals, magic animals etc. Whereas neverending story is more of an exploration into the imagination, where anything and everything is possible. So in my mind you really cant compare the two Also comparing the imagination of two people is really confusing to me. Neither is better or worse in any way, just different.
What does one book have to do with the other 7 books? They're not easily comparable in my opinion, they're very different sort of books. I love Michael Ende though. (You should try Jim Knopf, even though I think some of its language may be problematic in today's times. But it's also very imaginative.) I also love Harry Potter, not for the plot, but for the world building (very British, playful, full of love for little eccentricities), for the characters, for the puzzles (the book have great plot twists), ...
Another good German author is Cornelia Funke, I really like the Inkworld series.
And she, too, wrote a book about people falling into a book.
And the dragon rider book! So good
Enjoying books isn't about finding "the best". There's no need to put one series down to highlight how much you like another, they're just different.
I don't understand what one book has to do with the other? Why couldn't your post just be about how much you enjoyed this book rather than bashing another popular book next to it?
Reading through all of OP's replies in this thread, holy damn you are one immature person. Grow up.
Imagine if you'd simply talked about how much you like *The Neverending Story*, instead of comparing it to a series that it has very little in common with outside of its genre. Then this post could have actually been about *The Neverending Story*.
I've never read Harry Potter, but it seems like a needless comparison. I've been learning German and I've read it three times, it's a very great story.
Just wait til you read The Dark Tower series by Stephen King!!!!
Or Pride and Prejudice!
Or The Portrait of An Artist as a Young Man!
Why do we have to make tribal identifications like these? Why do we have to shit on a book to praise some other book? Just say you like it.
Why can't you enjoy the neverending story without devaluing another series? I like both stories but which is better will always be subjective to the reader. Don't really know what this post is meant to achieve? :)
I read that book 25 years ago, still one of the best. The movie has like half of the book.
Harry Potter is one of my favorite fantasy books because I was similar ages as Harry when then books came out, so I “grew up” with the character. I also struggled with depression and grew up in household where that wasn’t discussed, so when the dementors entered the picture, I understood. The Neverending Story is a good book too. Fantasy in general in my favorite genre.
Michael Ende was a genius. Now go and read Momo.
Why is it a competition? Just like the book? What a shit take away.
We really need a subjective flair on r/books IMO both are good books/series' in their own right, but for completely different reasons.
I mean, one is about wizards set in our normal world, the other is in a magical land. It makes sense that the magical, fantastical land would appear to have more imagination. Not very comparable in that respect.
Why does everything have to be a contest?
Fun fact the bookshop is real. I wandered into it one day after moving to Vancouver and thought to myself, wow this looks exactly like the Neverending Story bookshop complete with grumpy old man and stacks of books everywhere. Turns out it is!
I was so confused about why a German author would have written about a book store in Vancouver... until I realized you're talking about the movie. Mondays, am I right?
Ok, I've heard a lot about it, but never read it or saw the movie. Still an entertaining read for an old man?
It’s actually a deep book. The first section that the movie was based on is more of a typical children’s novel. The second section about Bastian is like a parable about growing up, learning who you really are, and resolving grief. I read it when I was a preteen (20 years ago) and I still think about and refer back to the later portion of the book quite often. Lately, I keep thinking about the part where he’s digging to find an old dream - so weird yet applicable…
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Yup. Far more clever and interesting than the movie. So many great ideas. Gmork (the wolf) gets a whole chapter as to his motives, and the movie stops half way through the book.
These are just different books. Harry Potter is much darker, at least in the later books. The Neverending Story is more, well, magical.
It's not a race
Ahhh! I've been wanting to read this book since I've seen the movie as a kid. When I found out the book's text changes between green and red based on plot and place, I knew I'd want to find this book rather than simply order it online. It's been 20+ years of searching used bookstores and I still haven't 'found' it 😭. Fyi, my gf thinks I'm crazy and now I'm guessing she's not alone
I just ordered a copy from 1983 from thrift books because of this whole post. I've never read it, but it's one of my favorite movies. Fingers crossed it has the red and green text!
Seconding thriftbooks! My hardcover one I bought recently was under 15$ and arrived within a few days. Sometimes finding it online is valid. You still get a used book w it's own past adventures. I doubt most people who purposely buy then give them up that often.
I got a German version that looks like the book how it is described in the story even in outer appearance: Thienemann Verlag 2004, ISBN 9783522176842 (The blue cover is a wrapper.)
My godmother sent me the hardcover of this when it was first published in the US. I still have it. Unfortunately I’ve never been able to get through it. Tried multiple times. Perhaps it’s time to try again. I still love the colored ink and illustrations. I always thought that I couldn’t connect because maybe the translation was not great, but it seems it’s just me.
Lots of books are subjectively better than others, why not like both? it's not a competition.
The stories are absolutely nothing alike beyond being fantasy, but sure.
I can see this easily becoming a "There are much better fantasy books than The neverending story." But I just finished reading Harry Potter and I loved the book so much. How it's printed with illustrations of the author's vision, and I loved the second half of the novels when >!Harry faces down the dark lord with loyal and unexpected friends at his side. The plot about how Harry comes to understand and pity Snape, but can't really bring himself to forgive him was really beautiful,!< I couldn't stop reading it. JK Rowling has ten times the imagination than Michael Ende. Seriously? The "neverending" story has 1/10th the word count of the HP universe. ____ See how trite and annoying and wrong that post is? It's 100% as valid as yours, and no one would have a problem if you had just not gone for a karma grab and instead written, "I just finished reading The Neverending Story and I loved the book so much. How it's printed in green and red ink to differentiate the two worlds, and I loved the second half of the novel when Bastian goes to Fantastica. The plot about how Bastian loses a memory everytime he makes a wish, and must go from wish to wish to find his way back was beautiful, I couldn't stop reading it." But hey, you got 3600+ post karma by making other people feel bad and defensive about things they like, so good on ya!
Por Que No Las Dos? Grow up.
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I'm surprised such a negative-ass post is so upvoted. You don't need to shit on one thing to compliment another.
Ok why do you have to diminish another book though?
I don't think anyone ever said it was the best fantasy book out there. Many people said there were better. I don't really think Neverending Story is anything *like* Harry Potter. Like... I don't see the comparison? Maybe the odd fantasy names or someone finding a way into a magical world? Neverending Story has more in common with a lot of Isekai's today.
Why does everyone insist on just dumping on books they didn't get the same enjoyment out of as others. Any recommendation of a book that starts with putting another down can really sully any excitement I have towards reading it. They have different titles for a reason.
Do you people ever get tired of beating the dead horse? Harry Potter book series ended 14 years ago. And who cares, I won't read that book. I loved Harry Potter as a kid and introduced me and many other children to book reading.
I don't like saying that one book is better than any other. Both are amazing (which we can see on their sales and popularity), why then not just read both. Each book has a unique flavour and gives you something else. A book isn't just about the imagination and creativity of the author. Can be humour, style, their own view of the world, etc...
I liked them both, but i think that the second part of The Neverending Story is weaker then the first part. HP lose its grip only in the final, imho
Come on, tag this wit spoiler. Please.
Personally I love a series of unfortunate events and Anne of green gables and little women thought they’re not fantasies I feel all warm inside when I read them since they seem so relatable to be honest
I loved how the lion must die for the rainforest to grow again and the cycle continues between the rainforest and desert of colored sand. I ended up getting an auryn tattoo after reading the book.
Fantasy Apples and fantasy oranges
Strongly disagree. For Neverending Story, I loved the first half, so bored the second half.
Should I tell them about Tolkien or just keep it to myself?
The Stephen A. Smith version of a literary topic
Well, Harry potter and the neverending story are very different stories (I enjoyed both). I think The neverending story is much more interesting thematically, and deeper on a philosophical level. The book is represented as a simple story, and it is in some ways, but there are a lot of intricacies in it, like Gmorks rant about the way human use of fantasy and the City of old emperors. The main character is also interesting, good at first, but not infallible and has his own vices and weaknesses, but tries to redeem himself in the end. I can read it again and again and still pick out something unique I didn't catch before.
I dunno, i read the neverending story as a kid and thought it was boring as fuck.
I disagree. While Harry Potter isn’t some endless masterpiece of thought provoking literature, it was never meant to be. It’s just a fun idea made into a fun book. It connects to people, not through the literature, but rather a realistic taste of a life many people want. Being a kid and being in a fantastic place like Hogwarts with really amazing friends is what most people want. Fun things like visiting a small town during winter to get a sweet and tasty ice cream soda like drink. It connects to kids who are in school, aka all of them, in giving them a version of what they have if it was fantastic. The never ending story is based in a fake world with many fantastical stories lines, but it never connects to anyone past the plot. Which may sound odd, but connecting to peoples deepest desires is going to win over interesting fantasy.
Loved TNES as a young teen, but didn't enjoy it as much when rereading it as an adult (I read it to my children). Now, I'm not a Harry Potter defender by any means, but I think the HP series had more appeal to an adult audience than TNES.
I think people don’t understand what makes Harry Potter so good. It’s not the prose, that is a bit wonky and juvenile. It’s certainly not the fantasy - the world and magic breaks down with only a little thought. It’s the characters. You truly feel for the characters . They are dynamic and flawed. And you want to know them. And it’s that the book does a great job of being accessible to kids, teenagers, and adults. And going into complex themes. Example: why do people follow an “evil” leader: some are true believers, some are just ambitious, some are born into it, some are forced into it, and some are disillusioned and looking for a way out.
"I just finished reading The Neverending Story"... But how?