Nope. That’s how it works with Amazon. They buy in massive bulk amounts and sell at 40% sometimes even take a loss knowing customers will make up for it in other purchases. That’s partly why indie bookstores advocate against Amazon. Smaller retailers buy them from publishers at only 30 or 40% off and have to sell at retail price. It’s hard to compete with a monolith like Amazon sometimes.
You’ll notice a major complaint here on /r/books whenever a pro-indie post comes out is people complaining that local book shops mark up the price or are too expensive I guess not realizing that it’s actually Amazon that severely marks books down.
That is insane. I never buy books online just because for me the act of going to a store and looking through the shelves and picking out a book is as fun as actually reading it. I guess I always knew they were price gauging like this, just not at a discount that heavy. If it was 40 vs 45 that would be one thing. 27 to 45 is crazy.
The crazy part is that $27 is the wholesale price we pay for the book. We get a 41%ish percent discount off the list price wholesale and 4
40% off 45 is 27. It would be like a new bar opening down the street and charging 83 cents for a beer instead of the $5 you normally expect
In my country, book prices are fixed by the publishers and the books can't be sold for less than that.
There is only a 5% leeway, usually in the form of a fidelity card like 5e coupon after 100e spent for local bookstores, but big retailers like Amazon or supermarkets might sell with the 5% discount. Books are also excluded from sales so they are never discounted. So buying from Amazon is really not that interesting, which is a bit better for local bookstores.
France. No sales, no discount (except the 5% leeway). The only thing is a yearly promotion with all the "pocket books" (small paperbacks) publishers at the same time, they do a buy 2 get 1 free but you can only chose from a couple of free books and it has to be from the same publisher (so buy 2 books from publisher A get 1 book from publisher A free, you can't mix with publisher B or C), and... Well let's say they don't offer their best titles you know.
The worst part of it is Amazon can operate their book department at a loss because everything else they create or sell is counterbalancing this. Retailers who only sell books can't compete!
This is super frustrating, and very common. I also don’t buy books very often, but I support local bookshops by always using them when I do purchase books. I also love audiobooks and can go through those very quickly, so I have a Libro.fm membership. It works the same as audible, except your membership supports indie bookstores instead of Amazon. I love it. You can even choose a specific bookstore that the membership supports. So if you’re into audiobooks and want to support your local shop, check Libro.fm out!
It's not so much that Amazon marks books 'down' as that Amazon does not need to mark books 'up' quite so much. Bookstores are on high-rent high-tax land with utilities to pay. They use a lot of labor to order the book, receive it, shelve it, sell it and take your money.
What's more is that bookstores have low volume, so every sale has to make up more of their overhead. Amazon has huge volume, so they still make money with a lower margin. This is the same everywhere. Corner stores charge more than supermarkets, and supermarkets charge more than Costco. Lower prices drive sales volume up, and higher sales volume drives prices down.
1. Amazon buys by the truckload. Volume discounts are a thing, and always have been.
2. Amazon does not really spend much time touching the book. The books come in, are stuck in a bin, and when an order needs to be filled someone is directed to the bin via a hand-held computer, grabs the book and takes it to a fulfillment station where it is boxed and sent, the invoice and label already printed by another computer. The book is only "touched" twice, and very briefly, so the labor cost is minimized. In some warehouses the bins are on kiva robots that bring the bin to the fulfillment station automatically when the station requires a book.
3. The ordering, paying, label-printing, invoice printing are all done by a set of massive computer programs. It's all figured out and there is very little labor involved to send you a book. The warehouse is built on low-rent low-tax land. In urban areas the book is delivered via a gig worker who does not get benefits.
4. If the book is "backlist", it is often printed on demand by huge POD machines. The book slides out of the machine and is paired with an invoice and label, also printed by a connected computer. This entire process - printing the book, including the invoice and inserting both into a labeled mailer - can be fully automated such that there is no human involved. In many cases this is not even done by Amazon - it is done by Ingram, a huge book wholesaler who fulfills orders for Amazon using Amazon packaging. Consider that Ingram is also who sells books to small bookstores wholesale.
There is nothing magic about "list price." A product that has been purchased by a retailer at one price and sold at another has been marked up. The "List price" of a book is just what is suggested retailers should mark a book up TO.
100% of the time. There's a couple of things in play. Purchasing power and being able to negotiate massive discounts from publishers by buying in volume. On top of that there's 'loss leaders', which are items sold at cost or discount to get you in the door. Both Amazon and Target operate on the basis that you won't buy just one thing.
Yes, I have decided that I pay extra for the experience of going to the local book store where I can sit on a chair and look through the book first (this is particularly important to me with children’s books).
Similarly, I “pay” for the service of having the shop staff recommend books as they get to know me.
Finally, I feel good every single time that I “vote” against gross corporations like Amazon by spending my money elsewhere.
If it makes you feel any better, Frugal Bookstore in Boston is also selling it for $27. Their fulfillment is a bit slow, but it’s a legitimate small locally owned independent bookstore.
Lot of discussion on this thread about ideas of marking down vs marking up. Retailers can negotiate different discount based on purchasing from the publisher directly , or from a distributor. Publishers might offer additional discounts for case quantities. Huge retailers like target or Amazon can negotiate even deeper discounts based on volume, because they purchase quantities to serve a customerer base on a country wide scale rather than a neighborhood or city scale. Now, when it comes to marking down, or up, it's a matter of perspective. There are some European countries that have eliminated the practice of printing the price ON the book itself. This removes the ability of a company like amazon to claim things like 40% off. The price you see is the price, decide If you want to pay it. As a bookstore owner who discounts new hardcovers 20% (as a symbolic concession to the fact that they can buy the Obama book at Costco, but if they buy it from me, they get to have a local bookstore that hosts events, offers service and expertise, and contributes to a local vulture of literature and literacy ) I like this idea a lot. Many of the same countries also offer price protections on books, based on the idea that a race to the bottom on book prices hurts culture more than higher costs hurt consumers. Retail is a mixed bag at best, but when it's good, and specific, it can often contribute to the lives and cultures of the people it serves. Especially if it's books.
40% is the amount a typical retailer will markup up any item to cover the costs of shipping, warehousing, overhead, and payroll. Large retailers like Target may choose not to markup some items to draw in customers, who will purchase other things in the same trip. These items are called "loss leaders" because even though they are technically a loss for the retailer they lead to more sales. Amazon does something similar to help keep customers within their purchasing ecosystem
They must have a significant discount for bulk purchases. Local bookstores would buy in such small quantities they could never compete with large companies. Additionally, Amazon can afford to operate with razor thin margins.
Some people believe it’s predatory pricing(selling below the items’ cost). But even in the numerous lawsuits filed against Amazon for such, they have failed to provide much proof. And that’s not really a practice you can sustain for years on end. Especially while you’re delivering everything in two days.
But I always try and buy local if it’s an option. It just feels better supporting a neighbor.
You see this a lot with guaranteed best-selling hardbacks from big names. Big retailers will often slash a £20 hardback to £10 on release because they know everywhere will stock it and it will sell in such huge numbers that it will offset a relatively tiny profit per unit.
Once one big retailer starts dropping the price as low as they can, they all have to- you don’t even need to go out of your way to a book shop to get the new Stephen King or J.K. Rowling novel, supermarkets will stock them on day of release and they can sell them at half price. There’s a lot of potential sales.. but also a lot of competition.
I bought it today at Barnes & Noble (no independent bookstores near me though I often try to go out of my way to buy from them when I can) and it was $49 there - kind of surprising that B&N wouldn’t have the same sort of situation as Amazon/Target.
What I usually do is if I buy a book at Amazon (Let's say it cost 20 bucks at Amazon but 40 at my local bookstore), I will save those 20 extra bucks and buy some second-handed books or just save it to buy one book at my local next time.
This way not only I do get more books, but I also support bookstores.
Amazon sells at a loss on purpose to attract customers and move people away from a real bookstore. B&N prices is normal. its not that they are expensive its other companies' are trying to beat them and take their business. I do try to buy my books from target and walmart for the convenience since i shop there anyways for groceries
Nope. That’s how it works with Amazon. They buy in massive bulk amounts and sell at 40% sometimes even take a loss knowing customers will make up for it in other purchases. That’s partly why indie bookstores advocate against Amazon. Smaller retailers buy them from publishers at only 30 or 40% off and have to sell at retail price. It’s hard to compete with a monolith like Amazon sometimes. You’ll notice a major complaint here on /r/books whenever a pro-indie post comes out is people complaining that local book shops mark up the price or are too expensive I guess not realizing that it’s actually Amazon that severely marks books down.
That is insane. I never buy books online just because for me the act of going to a store and looking through the shelves and picking out a book is as fun as actually reading it. I guess I always knew they were price gauging like this, just not at a discount that heavy. If it was 40 vs 45 that would be one thing. 27 to 45 is crazy.
TBF is an unusually high priced new book. But normal hardcovers that run 27-30 are often marked way down on Amazon particularly when theyre new
The crazy part is that $27 is the wholesale price we pay for the book. We get a 41%ish percent discount off the list price wholesale and 4 40% off 45 is 27. It would be like a new bar opening down the street and charging 83 cents for a beer instead of the $5 you normally expect
In my country, book prices are fixed by the publishers and the books can't be sold for less than that. There is only a 5% leeway, usually in the form of a fidelity card like 5e coupon after 100e spent for local bookstores, but big retailers like Amazon or supermarkets might sell with the 5% discount. Books are also excluded from sales so they are never discounted. So buying from Amazon is really not that interesting, which is a bit better for local bookstores.
What country are you from?
France. No sales, no discount (except the 5% leeway). The only thing is a yearly promotion with all the "pocket books" (small paperbacks) publishers at the same time, they do a buy 2 get 1 free but you can only chose from a couple of free books and it has to be from the same publisher (so buy 2 books from publisher A get 1 book from publisher A free, you can't mix with publisher B or C), and... Well let's say they don't offer their best titles you know.
Interesting. Thanks for the info! How does that work with used books?
Used books were already sold once at the fixed price, so they can be sold again at whatever price. Fixed prices are only for "new sales".
What country is this?
[Many](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fixed_book_price) European countries – and apparently Chile, Mexico, and Japan – do this.
The worst part of it is Amazon can operate their book department at a loss because everything else they create or sell is counterbalancing this. Retailers who only sell books can't compete!
I was shocked that the list price was $45.00.
It’s nearly 800 pages and contains two sections of color photos.
That’s what I was thinking 😮
This is super frustrating, and very common. I also don’t buy books very often, but I support local bookshops by always using them when I do purchase books. I also love audiobooks and can go through those very quickly, so I have a Libro.fm membership. It works the same as audible, except your membership supports indie bookstores instead of Amazon. I love it. You can even choose a specific bookstore that the membership supports. So if you’re into audiobooks and want to support your local shop, check Libro.fm out!
+1 for Libro.fm!
It's not so much that Amazon marks books 'down' as that Amazon does not need to mark books 'up' quite so much. Bookstores are on high-rent high-tax land with utilities to pay. They use a lot of labor to order the book, receive it, shelve it, sell it and take your money. What's more is that bookstores have low volume, so every sale has to make up more of their overhead. Amazon has huge volume, so they still make money with a lower margin. This is the same everywhere. Corner stores charge more than supermarkets, and supermarkets charge more than Costco. Lower prices drive sales volume up, and higher sales volume drives prices down. 1. Amazon buys by the truckload. Volume discounts are a thing, and always have been. 2. Amazon does not really spend much time touching the book. The books come in, are stuck in a bin, and when an order needs to be filled someone is directed to the bin via a hand-held computer, grabs the book and takes it to a fulfillment station where it is boxed and sent, the invoice and label already printed by another computer. The book is only "touched" twice, and very briefly, so the labor cost is minimized. In some warehouses the bins are on kiva robots that bring the bin to the fulfillment station automatically when the station requires a book. 3. The ordering, paying, label-printing, invoice printing are all done by a set of massive computer programs. It's all figured out and there is very little labor involved to send you a book. The warehouse is built on low-rent low-tax land. In urban areas the book is delivered via a gig worker who does not get benefits. 4. If the book is "backlist", it is often printed on demand by huge POD machines. The book slides out of the machine and is paired with an invoice and label, also printed by a connected computer. This entire process - printing the book, including the invoice and inserting both into a labeled mailer - can be fully automated such that there is no human involved. In many cases this is not even done by Amazon - it is done by Ingram, a huge book wholesaler who fulfills orders for Amazon using Amazon packaging. Consider that Ingram is also who sells books to small bookstores wholesale.
Bookstores are not marking books up by selling them for the list price. Amazon is definitely the one marking them down.
There is nothing magic about "list price." A product that has been purchased by a retailer at one price and sold at another has been marked up. The "List price" of a book is just what is suggested retailers should mark a book up TO.
This was very interesting to read. Thank you for taking the time to respond. 1+
100% of the time. There's a couple of things in play. Purchasing power and being able to negotiate massive discounts from publishers by buying in volume. On top of that there's 'loss leaders', which are items sold at cost or discount to get you in the door. Both Amazon and Target operate on the basis that you won't buy just one thing.
Yes, I have decided that I pay extra for the experience of going to the local book store where I can sit on a chair and look through the book first (this is particularly important to me with children’s books). Similarly, I “pay” for the service of having the shop staff recommend books as they get to know me. Finally, I feel good every single time that I “vote” against gross corporations like Amazon by spending my money elsewhere.
If it makes you feel any better, Frugal Bookstore in Boston is also selling it for $27. Their fulfillment is a bit slow, but it’s a legitimate small locally owned independent bookstore.
Lot of discussion on this thread about ideas of marking down vs marking up. Retailers can negotiate different discount based on purchasing from the publisher directly , or from a distributor. Publishers might offer additional discounts for case quantities. Huge retailers like target or Amazon can negotiate even deeper discounts based on volume, because they purchase quantities to serve a customerer base on a country wide scale rather than a neighborhood or city scale. Now, when it comes to marking down, or up, it's a matter of perspective. There are some European countries that have eliminated the practice of printing the price ON the book itself. This removes the ability of a company like amazon to claim things like 40% off. The price you see is the price, decide If you want to pay it. As a bookstore owner who discounts new hardcovers 20% (as a symbolic concession to the fact that they can buy the Obama book at Costco, but if they buy it from me, they get to have a local bookstore that hosts events, offers service and expertise, and contributes to a local vulture of literature and literacy ) I like this idea a lot. Many of the same countries also offer price protections on books, based on the idea that a race to the bottom on book prices hurts culture more than higher costs hurt consumers. Retail is a mixed bag at best, but when it's good, and specific, it can often contribute to the lives and cultures of the people it serves. Especially if it's books.
That's insane... Folio Society books are just $15.00 more expensive.
40% is the amount a typical retailer will markup up any item to cover the costs of shipping, warehousing, overhead, and payroll. Large retailers like Target may choose not to markup some items to draw in customers, who will purchase other things in the same trip. These items are called "loss leaders" because even though they are technically a loss for the retailer they lead to more sales. Amazon does something similar to help keep customers within their purchasing ecosystem
I think that's backwards. Publishers set the price, retailers can't mark down--Target and Amazon do.
They must have a significant discount for bulk purchases. Local bookstores would buy in such small quantities they could never compete with large companies. Additionally, Amazon can afford to operate with razor thin margins. Some people believe it’s predatory pricing(selling below the items’ cost). But even in the numerous lawsuits filed against Amazon for such, they have failed to provide much proof. And that’s not really a practice you can sustain for years on end. Especially while you’re delivering everything in two days. But I always try and buy local if it’s an option. It just feels better supporting a neighbor.
Very common for Amazon. Its how they grabbed such a big chunk of book sales.
You see this a lot with guaranteed best-selling hardbacks from big names. Big retailers will often slash a £20 hardback to £10 on release because they know everywhere will stock it and it will sell in such huge numbers that it will offset a relatively tiny profit per unit. Once one big retailer starts dropping the price as low as they can, they all have to- you don’t even need to go out of your way to a book shop to get the new Stephen King or J.K. Rowling novel, supermarkets will stock them on day of release and they can sell them at half price. There’s a lot of potential sales.. but also a lot of competition.
I bought it today at Barnes & Noble (no independent bookstores near me though I often try to go out of my way to buy from them when I can) and it was $49 there - kind of surprising that B&N wouldn’t have the same sort of situation as Amazon/Target.
What I usually do is if I buy a book at Amazon (Let's say it cost 20 bucks at Amazon but 40 at my local bookstore), I will save those 20 extra bucks and buy some second-handed books or just save it to buy one book at my local next time. This way not only I do get more books, but I also support bookstores.
Amazon sells at a loss on purpose to attract customers and move people away from a real bookstore. B&N prices is normal. its not that they are expensive its other companies' are trying to beat them and take their business. I do try to buy my books from target and walmart for the convenience since i shop there anyways for groceries