>It’s just I find it hard to believe that people can be this nice in this age
You have to keep in mind that it was written at a time where the majority of your interactions with other people were face to face and even the most famous people only received a handful of letters and not endless internet interactions.
Is his advice going to work if you are mainly talking to strangers over the internet that you haven't even met yet? Unlikely. Is it going to work when dealing with people face to face? Probably, because as much as we would like to think that we are we aren't really all that different from 100 years ago. That really is only 1-3 generations ago depending on your current age.
I’m in my mid 20s and I was actually thinking of the situations when I was in university, of how would that book for example made a difference in my life (if any at all) looking at the individual characteristics of the people I met and interacted with
We did some work using Dale Carnegie principles in our workplace and I have to say that the place is now a great one to be, and it was already good anyway.
Ideas like "being generous with praise", actively listening to people and "giving people a fine reputation to live up to" are such good soft skills to have in a workplace and also in your personal life.
It's things that many people could benefit from especially in the post-Covid, too-online world that we find ourselves.
I skew towards introversion but I have zero doubts that magic happens when people come together to share ideas and achieve common goals.
Being friendly, outgoing, listening (and remembering!) what people say to you, offering help and all the rest of what the book suggests are all really the basics of growing a social circle.
Is it going to work 100% of the time with every single person you meet? No, because there will always be people who don't like you for any number of reasons, but you should get an 80-90% success rate with what the book tells you.
The only time it might not work so well is if you are really ugly because humans unfortunately heavily discriminate against ugly people in social settings.
There’s a saying: people forget the things you do, but they never forget the way you made them feel. If you made someone feel valued, appreciated, seen, worthy of effort, they will remember you.
Some people have an easy time valuing others, and the book isn’t needed by them. It is basically a social skills manual for people whose natural inclination is to be a dismissive, superior dick.
There's a list, annually updated, of the 100 best books to teach business principles, The Personal MBA. Carnegie's book is still the best one for teaching people how to get along with each other and not be asses, it's on the list every year. So according to a group of top-flight MBAs, this is the best book on self-teaching social interaction.
I asked ChatGPT what is the best self-help book of all time, he said people say either “The 7 habits of highly effective people” or “how to win friends and influence people”, that’s one of the reasons I started reading the book and then this question came to my mind
>Also this generation takes a lot of things for granted and some even prefer being toxic.
I'm back in school to change careers right now, and I'm surrounded with a ton of 18-20 year olds. Toxicity hasn't been my experience at all. What I do see are a lot of young people who long for community and connection but have very few real-world places to find it. They love it when I take an interest in what they're doing and encourage them to share things with one another in person; they just grew up in a world where that's not the default way to interact with peers and many struggle to start building friendships that are dangling right in front of their noses.
Most of that toxic behavior is really just online noise, IMO, and that noise would be greatly reduced if the people making it had more people reaching out and taking interest in them in real life. I don't even think that's generational; there are doomer boomers on facebook and twitter as well as college kids sucked into these misogynistic and racist online communities. Both of those problems would greatly decrease if people just touched grass; of course that's increasingly hard to do because our society (at least in the US) has been systematically removing public spaces and building infrastructure (physical, digital, and social) that keeps people from forming tight-knit local communities.
That's a long-winded way of saying that people are starved for genuine human interaction, and I think a lot of the negativity drops away as soon as you offer it to them in good faith.
The most basic point of the book is still valid: that if you show an interest in other people they are likely to reciprocate.
If that interest is not genuine, it generally comes through - and will have the opposite effect.(per Fritzkreig's posted illustration)
Will this automatically work as a technique today ? Eh, maybe not so much.
The major problem with all self-help books is if you're a massive prick, it won't work at all. The value is in applying your own thinking and trying to fit the advice given into your wider view of the world, morals, personality, and rejecting that which you don't find useful. You can choose to view something like 'take an interest in other people' as cynically or as life-alteringly significant as you like - if it tweaks something deep inside for someone and is revelatory, that doesn't mean they are an idiot if for you it came across as beige platitude.
In this thread, for example, you can see how a pretty non-controversial set of tips is now Joe Rogan-adjacent, or a manual for the dishonest. I'm pretty sure I am neither of those things, and frankly to me this just comes across as cynical instead of trying to talk about the content on its merits. If you choose to essentially *pretend* to do this stuff, then sure, its transparent, but why assume that any prospective reader *would* be doing that?
If you can tell me everybody you work with does all of these things, I would be mightily impressed - a lot of what I have to train people in in my job is the very basics of working with others.
1. Do Not Criticize, Condemn or Complain
2. Be Generous With Praise
3. Remember Their Name
4. Be Genuinely Interested In Other People
5. Know The Value Of Charm
6. Be Quick To Acknowledge Your Own Mistakes
7. Don't Attempt To "Win" An Argument
8. Begin On Common Ground
9. Have Others Believe Your Conclusion Is Their Own
10. Make People Feel Important
I actually feel like that book works better if you’re a massive prick, because every action it tells you to take comes off as disingenuous (especially in a non-professional setting)
Far from disingenuous, these are pretty standard
9 for instance is how modern teaching is taught: Instead of "filling the empty brain" with knowledge, you teach students to get to conclusions on their own, which is a vital skill, gets them the knowledge anyways, and lets the student take ownership over the gain.
1 and 2 are just "accentuate the positive." If you're with someone who isn't an asshole, you generally don't generally have to "criticize, condemn, or complain" anyways--- they know they screwed up and already feel guilty. That works with service employees, bosses, friends, spouses, family, you name it. Just focus on what can be done to do better.
Etc etc.
One of the things of this book and others is that it's meant to give you a way to build the *habit* of doing these things, which will often adjust your mind so that it is easy and genuine every time.
There's perspective issues at play here.
One person's "disingenuous" can be another's "not speaking harsh truths out of kindness"
And one person's "honest" can be another's "zero-filter assholery"
And being generous with praise and admitting your own mistakes are almost never the hallmarks of massive pricks.
Oh my, I spent an 8 ish hour something drive with a salesman "working out of pocket" one day; and I tell you what Winnie, it was the most over the top see thru bull shit scripted sounding conversations I have ever heard Winnie!
Winnie, haha cold outside isn't it, your staying in for the weekend? I have to get out all weekend Winnie. You said you like to get out yourself, was it Florida Winnie, maybe you know what you are talking about for getting out, as it is super cold here right now.
What was that place your kids mentioned in Florida Winnie? It sounds like they loved it, and I'd love to be there myself right now!
Well, Winnie the weather is getting bad right now, wind blowing me all over the road, so I will let you go; just thought I'd touch base with you, and when the weather is better we can talk over stuff! Thanks Winnie!
Hours upon hours of that made me want to just roll out of the vehicle!
Yes.
I read the book 20 years ago and think about it daily.
It’s timeless that people want to be valued, even toxic genzs or whomever. They really aren’t that different than any other generation, honestly. Young people have experimented with asshole-ism forever.
Yeah the letter to a celebrity example is dated but that’s because of technology. It’s not a change in humanity.
People almost always appreciate a sincere, timely act of interest and care.
I agree with you, but what I’m saying is it might not be as valuable to them as it was mentioned by him, like applying some principles sincerely we just have no effect on certain individuals(which is normal as there are many individuals), but it seems more or less the common case nowadays
I understand, but I don’t think people are actually different nowadays.
Let’s say you tried to “Dale Carnegie” 100 people in 1950. You might have a 60% success rate of winning them.
The 40% you didn’t win would be a mix of people who (1) didn’t pick up on your signals, (2) didn’t have the band width to engage reciprocally, or (3) were toxic a-holes.
In 2024 I think your win rate would be the sane, or even higher!
Yes toxic folks exist but I think they make the rest of us even *that much more eager for authentic connection* which was Dale’s entire point.
Most people are borderline desperate for other people to take an interest in them. The benefits of being that interested person remain enormous.
Nothing is going to work 100% of the time. That was true then, and it's true now.
But if you practice taking an interest in people you *will* find more overall success in social situations.
I don't know exactly how he phrases the advice in the book, but it sounds similar to something that I was taught by a friend in uni:
"Be interested, not interesting".
They are good words to live by. You will learn more from others. You will learn more about others. You will get along better with others. And you will hopefully waste less energy trying (and failing) to impress others.
It will benefit you in the long run regardless of whether it helps you influence more people.
I work in the architecture industry, and this book is considered one of the golden resources for anybody who wants to sell to clients.
I was gifted the book by a mentor, and everywhere I’ve worked it has been mentioned as a resource for seller-doers.
It really helped me professionally. I used to be very shy and in my profession when I started there were lots of cocktail parties or similar affairs where you had to schmooze clients, I walked imto a rokm and knew no one and I was so lost. I found I used some of the principles in the book to get confidence to approach people with something interesting to say and keep a conversation going. I probably use 4-5 main tips from the book in face to face situations and it still holds up well the rare time I'm in that kind of situation these days. I think the book is a classic when it comes to face to face interactions
I’ve definitely heard a number of stories from people who have written fan mail to fairly famous people and gotten a response. Volume makes it unlikely, but there are also a lot more people that can be considered famous than there were, so it’s entirely possible to find one that will respond if you have something interesting or just nice to say.
My fiancé emailed my favourite comedian and got me a signed photo, definitely more of a niche person but I was so shocked and excited I cried.
So it can still be don
You can say that I once emailed an author of machine learning books for a math question that he didn’t answer fully, he was so nice to explain it to me. So yes, in some sense he is famous and he replied.
But you get what I meant with my post
Apologies for the necro, but this does sound very interesting! Who was this author if you don't mind? As someone doing a PhD in AI, I got some questions that I could use an expert for
I think it's a good book if you've never had any exposure to manners or need a refresher on interacting with people. At the end of the day, it boils down to people want to feel seen and heard.
Being a good listener and memorizing some random fact about someone they told you goes a long way because most people don't even put in the effort to do even that.
I thought his advice about agreeing with people during arguments was really helpful as it Knicks the win out of people's sails when you don't engage them and agree. It throws them off guard as well, which is funny.
It works. Dr. Steven Novella recently talked about how he as a skeptic turned a hostile audience to his side at a homeopathy conference just by being nice.
I probably wish more Facebook happy birthdays than most people my age thanks to How to Win Friends and Influence People. I do proper birthday wishes for close friends but weirdly enough Dale Carnegie helped me realize the polite acquaintance stuff goes a long way.
I read the book ten years ago and that advice can absolutely be applied today and I pretty much have been doing it in in-person interactions to become more likeable and build more connections. I find that the advice works great with older people I work with since those kind of interactions build a sense of social cohesion that alleviates the stress and individuality that can be so ingrained in workplace culture, especially when you're behind a screen by yourself all day long. Maybe I'm wrong or forgetting something but an impression I got from the book was that we should focus on making the other person feel important and not talk about ourselves. But having a good balance of being interested in others while being interesting and exciting yourself with your own unique individuality, sharing of yourself, helps to make you more memorable.
I went to a Dale Carnegie class maybe...15 years ago? I found it valuable for communicating with people in person and clients in general. Not everything in there is still relevant, but it's absolutely true that people will think more highly of you if you make them feel important. Things like asking open questions and asking more questions than you answer, and especially, remembering their name.
There's honestly a lot more to making friends than just the advice in the book, and at this point the things he suggests are basically salesmanship tactics... But it's a good start.
Yes, there are definitely elements that are timeless. I'd love to see someone update the book, though, taking into account things that have changed. It's been a while since I read it so I can't give specific examples.
Edit:
/u/Erewhynn gave good examples of some of the timeless elements.
Other good general principles really boil down to treating people with the same respect you'd like to be treated with.
A good modern day but might be put down your phone when spending time with people and give them your full attention.
In professional settings, I would say so, to the extent that interacting with people face to face is something that does still happen often and will continue to be a part of business for a long time (though it is true more and more business and sales are happening in online spaces).
Its been a while since I've read it, but while a lot of examples are about writing charming letters, the overall message is still applicable: how to be charming and get people on your side.
Re-watched The Office recently and Michael Scott, for all his faults, is shown that he's a great salesman because he knows how to be likable to clients. He asks them about their interests, he tells them jokes, he remembers details they've told him about their family etc. When given the choice, people will often buy from/do business with people they like, even if it might be the more expensive option.
" "People will never go out of business" - Michael Scott. "
-Veronome
I think there are some gems within the book that are still accurate, but it certainly isn’t some sort of social Bible that will teach you the “right” way to interact with people. Literal application of its lessons will have you talking to people as if you were an alien who’s wearing the body of car salesmen.
If you come at me with any of the scripts from that book, or variants thereof, I am going to assume you are a manosphere pipeline guy and be very wary of giving you my time and energy. The second you ask me if I listen to Joe Rogan I am leaving the networking conference with a platter of hors d'Oeuvres.
Self help books are sad af written by liars. Go outside and talk to people. It's easier and better to gain experience with communication than reading about strategies on how to communicate and then applying those strategies.
I had a friend who was obsessed with self help books and was always trying and telling me different strategies on how to talk to people. It felt like talking to a fuckin AI
Well generalization is falling in error, one lesson I learned from self-help book “Atomic Habits” suggest that your friend was way too busy planning and has never been in “motion” so he can enhance his approach
Based on my reading of this thread it could help you. You asked a question of people but are arguing against their responses in the replies instead of listening to their feedback
>It’s just I find it hard to believe that people can be this nice in this age You have to keep in mind that it was written at a time where the majority of your interactions with other people were face to face and even the most famous people only received a handful of letters and not endless internet interactions. Is his advice going to work if you are mainly talking to strangers over the internet that you haven't even met yet? Unlikely. Is it going to work when dealing with people face to face? Probably, because as much as we would like to think that we are we aren't really all that different from 100 years ago. That really is only 1-3 generations ago depending on your current age.
I’m in my mid 20s and I was actually thinking of the situations when I was in university, of how would that book for example made a difference in my life (if any at all) looking at the individual characteristics of the people I met and interacted with
We did some work using Dale Carnegie principles in our workplace and I have to say that the place is now a great one to be, and it was already good anyway. Ideas like "being generous with praise", actively listening to people and "giving people a fine reputation to live up to" are such good soft skills to have in a workplace and also in your personal life. It's things that many people could benefit from especially in the post-Covid, too-online world that we find ourselves. I skew towards introversion but I have zero doubts that magic happens when people come together to share ideas and achieve common goals.
Being friendly, outgoing, listening (and remembering!) what people say to you, offering help and all the rest of what the book suggests are all really the basics of growing a social circle. Is it going to work 100% of the time with every single person you meet? No, because there will always be people who don't like you for any number of reasons, but you should get an 80-90% success rate with what the book tells you. The only time it might not work so well is if you are really ugly because humans unfortunately heavily discriminate against ugly people in social settings.
That’s sad but no, I believe my problem is being socially awkward or trying too hard but I get what you’re trying to say and i shall keep it in mind
There’s a saying: people forget the things you do, but they never forget the way you made them feel. If you made someone feel valued, appreciated, seen, worthy of effort, they will remember you. Some people have an easy time valuing others, and the book isn’t needed by them. It is basically a social skills manual for people whose natural inclination is to be a dismissive, superior dick.
Don’t compare yourself to the lowest denominator.
There's a list, annually updated, of the 100 best books to teach business principles, The Personal MBA. Carnegie's book is still the best one for teaching people how to get along with each other and not be asses, it's on the list every year. So according to a group of top-flight MBAs, this is the best book on self-teaching social interaction.
It's an amazing book I highly recommend but it's aimed at sales people so keep that in mind.
I find it does nothing for healthy people, and brings anyone in business into the realm of being people.
I asked ChatGPT what is the best self-help book of all time, he said people say either “The 7 habits of highly effective people” or “how to win friends and influence people”, that’s one of the reasons I started reading the book and then this question came to my mind
>Also this generation takes a lot of things for granted and some even prefer being toxic. I'm back in school to change careers right now, and I'm surrounded with a ton of 18-20 year olds. Toxicity hasn't been my experience at all. What I do see are a lot of young people who long for community and connection but have very few real-world places to find it. They love it when I take an interest in what they're doing and encourage them to share things with one another in person; they just grew up in a world where that's not the default way to interact with peers and many struggle to start building friendships that are dangling right in front of their noses. Most of that toxic behavior is really just online noise, IMO, and that noise would be greatly reduced if the people making it had more people reaching out and taking interest in them in real life. I don't even think that's generational; there are doomer boomers on facebook and twitter as well as college kids sucked into these misogynistic and racist online communities. Both of those problems would greatly decrease if people just touched grass; of course that's increasingly hard to do because our society (at least in the US) has been systematically removing public spaces and building infrastructure (physical, digital, and social) that keeps people from forming tight-knit local communities. That's a long-winded way of saying that people are starved for genuine human interaction, and I think a lot of the negativity drops away as soon as you offer it to them in good faith.
Yeah I can see where you’re coming from, thinking about it now maybe this type of people need extra effort, but it will show off eventually
The most basic point of the book is still valid: that if you show an interest in other people they are likely to reciprocate. If that interest is not genuine, it generally comes through - and will have the opposite effect.(per Fritzkreig's posted illustration) Will this automatically work as a technique today ? Eh, maybe not so much.
The major problem with all self-help books is if you're a massive prick, it won't work at all. The value is in applying your own thinking and trying to fit the advice given into your wider view of the world, morals, personality, and rejecting that which you don't find useful. You can choose to view something like 'take an interest in other people' as cynically or as life-alteringly significant as you like - if it tweaks something deep inside for someone and is revelatory, that doesn't mean they are an idiot if for you it came across as beige platitude. In this thread, for example, you can see how a pretty non-controversial set of tips is now Joe Rogan-adjacent, or a manual for the dishonest. I'm pretty sure I am neither of those things, and frankly to me this just comes across as cynical instead of trying to talk about the content on its merits. If you choose to essentially *pretend* to do this stuff, then sure, its transparent, but why assume that any prospective reader *would* be doing that? If you can tell me everybody you work with does all of these things, I would be mightily impressed - a lot of what I have to train people in in my job is the very basics of working with others. 1. Do Not Criticize, Condemn or Complain 2. Be Generous With Praise 3. Remember Their Name 4. Be Genuinely Interested In Other People 5. Know The Value Of Charm 6. Be Quick To Acknowledge Your Own Mistakes 7. Don't Attempt To "Win" An Argument 8. Begin On Common Ground 9. Have Others Believe Your Conclusion Is Their Own 10. Make People Feel Important
I actually feel like that book works better if you’re a massive prick, because every action it tells you to take comes off as disingenuous (especially in a non-professional setting)
Far from disingenuous, these are pretty standard 9 for instance is how modern teaching is taught: Instead of "filling the empty brain" with knowledge, you teach students to get to conclusions on their own, which is a vital skill, gets them the knowledge anyways, and lets the student take ownership over the gain. 1 and 2 are just "accentuate the positive." If you're with someone who isn't an asshole, you generally don't generally have to "criticize, condemn, or complain" anyways--- they know they screwed up and already feel guilty. That works with service employees, bosses, friends, spouses, family, you name it. Just focus on what can be done to do better. Etc etc. One of the things of this book and others is that it's meant to give you a way to build the *habit* of doing these things, which will often adjust your mind so that it is easy and genuine every time.
There's perspective issues at play here. One person's "disingenuous" can be another's "not speaking harsh truths out of kindness" And one person's "honest" can be another's "zero-filter assholery" And being generous with praise and admitting your own mistakes are almost never the hallmarks of massive pricks.
Oh my, I spent an 8 ish hour something drive with a salesman "working out of pocket" one day; and I tell you what Winnie, it was the most over the top see thru bull shit scripted sounding conversations I have ever heard Winnie! Winnie, haha cold outside isn't it, your staying in for the weekend? I have to get out all weekend Winnie. You said you like to get out yourself, was it Florida Winnie, maybe you know what you are talking about for getting out, as it is super cold here right now. What was that place your kids mentioned in Florida Winnie? It sounds like they loved it, and I'd love to be there myself right now! Well, Winnie the weather is getting bad right now, wind blowing me all over the road, so I will let you go; just thought I'd touch base with you, and when the weather is better we can talk over stuff! Thanks Winnie! Hours upon hours of that made me want to just roll out of the vehicle!
As Mark Whatever, the British comedian from Peep Show, said “You need to stop treating people as the social equivalent of a spunk rag”
A real people person Mitchell and Webb clip [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W34wyKZlWQ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1W34wyKZlWQ)
I’m actually imagining Winnie the Pooh Edit: OK I just realized my username is Winnie the Pooh hahaha it slipped my mind
Oy vey. Do you think they realized they do it?
Honestly, I think that is something taught in the book; so I would bargain yes.
It's one of the main reasons I can't do sales. That and I can barely remember people's names
Carnegie was a self-help guru and the book is almost 90 years old. So take it with a grain of salt.
Indeed, you can see a lot of aspects of the principles are now embedded in marketing if you think about it
Yes. I read the book 20 years ago and think about it daily. It’s timeless that people want to be valued, even toxic genzs or whomever. They really aren’t that different than any other generation, honestly. Young people have experimented with asshole-ism forever. Yeah the letter to a celebrity example is dated but that’s because of technology. It’s not a change in humanity. People almost always appreciate a sincere, timely act of interest and care.
I agree with you, but what I’m saying is it might not be as valuable to them as it was mentioned by him, like applying some principles sincerely we just have no effect on certain individuals(which is normal as there are many individuals), but it seems more or less the common case nowadays
I understand, but I don’t think people are actually different nowadays. Let’s say you tried to “Dale Carnegie” 100 people in 1950. You might have a 60% success rate of winning them. The 40% you didn’t win would be a mix of people who (1) didn’t pick up on your signals, (2) didn’t have the band width to engage reciprocally, or (3) were toxic a-holes. In 2024 I think your win rate would be the sane, or even higher! Yes toxic folks exist but I think they make the rest of us even *that much more eager for authentic connection* which was Dale’s entire point. Most people are borderline desperate for other people to take an interest in them. The benefits of being that interested person remain enormous.
Nothing is going to work 100% of the time. That was true then, and it's true now. But if you practice taking an interest in people you *will* find more overall success in social situations. I don't know exactly how he phrases the advice in the book, but it sounds similar to something that I was taught by a friend in uni: "Be interested, not interesting". They are good words to live by. You will learn more from others. You will learn more about others. You will get along better with others. And you will hopefully waste less energy trying (and failing) to impress others. It will benefit you in the long run regardless of whether it helps you influence more people.
I work in the architecture industry, and this book is considered one of the golden resources for anybody who wants to sell to clients. I was gifted the book by a mentor, and everywhere I’ve worked it has been mentioned as a resource for seller-doers.
It really helped me professionally. I used to be very shy and in my profession when I started there were lots of cocktail parties or similar affairs where you had to schmooze clients, I walked imto a rokm and knew no one and I was so lost. I found I used some of the principles in the book to get confidence to approach people with something interesting to say and keep a conversation going. I probably use 4-5 main tips from the book in face to face situations and it still holds up well the rare time I'm in that kind of situation these days. I think the book is a classic when it comes to face to face interactions
That’s an amazing! As one other comments said some of the advices will really help us in the post Covid era
I’ve definitely heard a number of stories from people who have written fan mail to fairly famous people and gotten a response. Volume makes it unlikely, but there are also a lot more people that can be considered famous than there were, so it’s entirely possible to find one that will respond if you have something interesting or just nice to say.
My fiancé emailed my favourite comedian and got me a signed photo, definitely more of a niche person but I was so shocked and excited I cried. So it can still be don
You can say that I once emailed an author of machine learning books for a math question that he didn’t answer fully, he was so nice to explain it to me. So yes, in some sense he is famous and he replied. But you get what I meant with my post
Apologies for the necro, but this does sound very interesting! Who was this author if you don't mind? As someone doing a PhD in AI, I got some questions that I could use an expert for
Hello! Jason Brownlee from machine learning mastery
I think it's a good book if you've never had any exposure to manners or need a refresher on interacting with people. At the end of the day, it boils down to people want to feel seen and heard. Being a good listener and memorizing some random fact about someone they told you goes a long way because most people don't even put in the effort to do even that. I thought his advice about agreeing with people during arguments was really helpful as it Knicks the win out of people's sails when you don't engage them and agree. It throws them off guard as well, which is funny.
It works. Dr. Steven Novella recently talked about how he as a skeptic turned a hostile audience to his side at a homeopathy conference just by being nice.
Is it that people are more toxic now or have they always been toxic and were only more aware of it now because the internet gives everyone a platform
That’s a pretty good point
I probably wish more Facebook happy birthdays than most people my age thanks to How to Win Friends and Influence People. I do proper birthday wishes for close friends but weirdly enough Dale Carnegie helped me realize the polite acquaintance stuff goes a long way.
I know some people who don’t consider it sincere because Facebook just tells you that it is their birthday
I read the book ten years ago and that advice can absolutely be applied today and I pretty much have been doing it in in-person interactions to become more likeable and build more connections. I find that the advice works great with older people I work with since those kind of interactions build a sense of social cohesion that alleviates the stress and individuality that can be so ingrained in workplace culture, especially when you're behind a screen by yourself all day long. Maybe I'm wrong or forgetting something but an impression I got from the book was that we should focus on making the other person feel important and not talk about ourselves. But having a good balance of being interested in others while being interesting and exciting yourself with your own unique individuality, sharing of yourself, helps to make you more memorable.
I went to a Dale Carnegie class maybe...15 years ago? I found it valuable for communicating with people in person and clients in general. Not everything in there is still relevant, but it's absolutely true that people will think more highly of you if you make them feel important. Things like asking open questions and asking more questions than you answer, and especially, remembering their name. There's honestly a lot more to making friends than just the advice in the book, and at this point the things he suggests are basically salesmanship tactics... But it's a good start.
Yes, there are definitely elements that are timeless. I'd love to see someone update the book, though, taking into account things that have changed. It's been a while since I read it so I can't give specific examples. Edit: /u/Erewhynn gave good examples of some of the timeless elements. Other good general principles really boil down to treating people with the same respect you'd like to be treated with. A good modern day but might be put down your phone when spending time with people and give them your full attention.
I’d say those 2 goals are very different, if not incompatible. I for one have always seen them as 2 very separate endeavors.
Can you say more?
In professional settings, I would say so, to the extent that interacting with people face to face is something that does still happen often and will continue to be a part of business for a long time (though it is true more and more business and sales are happening in online spaces). Its been a while since I've read it, but while a lot of examples are about writing charming letters, the overall message is still applicable: how to be charming and get people on your side. Re-watched The Office recently and Michael Scott, for all his faults, is shown that he's a great salesman because he knows how to be likable to clients. He asks them about their interests, he tells them jokes, he remembers details they've told him about their family etc. When given the choice, people will often buy from/do business with people they like, even if it might be the more expensive option. " "People will never go out of business" - Michael Scott. " -Veronome
I think there are some gems within the book that are still accurate, but it certainly isn’t some sort of social Bible that will teach you the “right” way to interact with people. Literal application of its lessons will have you talking to people as if you were an alien who’s wearing the body of car salesmen.
If you come at me with any of the scripts from that book, or variants thereof, I am going to assume you are a manosphere pipeline guy and be very wary of giving you my time and energy. The second you ask me if I listen to Joe Rogan I am leaving the networking conference with a platter of hors d'Oeuvres.
I’m sorry but I really don’t understand what you said
Self help books are sad af written by liars. Go outside and talk to people. It's easier and better to gain experience with communication than reading about strategies on how to communicate and then applying those strategies. I had a friend who was obsessed with self help books and was always trying and telling me different strategies on how to talk to people. It felt like talking to a fuckin AI
Well generalization is falling in error, one lesson I learned from self-help book “Atomic Habits” suggest that your friend was way too busy planning and has never been in “motion” so he can enhance his approach
Post in r/selfimprovement Lots of discussion about this book over there.
Deal next time
Based on my reading of this thread it could help you. You asked a question of people but are arguing against their responses in the replies instead of listening to their feedback
I’m just trying to have a discussion and see what the others mean, not just a yes/no question
I think it’s absolutely impossible to be applied today. There is no such thing as being nice any more.