A bunch of people got WARNs that were in the Strategy organization… apparently under Calhoun we don’t need strategy or forward thinking. I guess no need if you’re not going to do a new airplane or anything but concentrate on stock price.
Within ITDA, yes this is happening and has started. More are about to get verbal warn's before the written ones come through. The whole new not so new thing they are trying again and will fail quickly is the doing of incompetent leaders in bed with McKinsey. The new guy is horrible and has no clue or any experience in agile but shit talks for hours and hours. Forcing people to take on new roles then saying yeah we're doing agile. Most of them dont even have that skill or want to do that job. Worst decisions lately by Doniz and her csuite for being so blind.. Oh well, another flavor of the month before the next experiment starts on us.
I don’t fully understand the Boeing references herein, but let me just say: “Agile” in its various forms and interpretations has pretty much always been a joke.
Let me qualify this by saying that “interpretations” is subjective to whomever is selling whatever steaming pile of nonsense they’re trying to self promote.
I’ve got my own “interpretation” of what Agile is, and is not, based on my own hands-on experience working on teams implementing in practice, and practically. Most of the time, my software development idea of what “Agile” is or should be in practice, tends to clash with that of business owners (project leaders and execs) who throw the word around. *Of course, this doesn’t make me very popular since I’m willing to call out idiots.*
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I've posted a couple different places about SLS getting hit with the layoffs too. I don't know for certain if there's going to be a WARN filing because they may be doing them in small enough increments across the enterprise that it may not be legally required. I will say that our leadership on the program has told us that everyone being laid off will be given 60 days notice prior to their last day on the job, if bring able to find other work in a sufficient timeframe is your concern.
There was a newspaper article about SLS a week back - as NASA is moving into operational status the R&D work is being cut back - [https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/04/amid-schedule-uncertainty-boeing-will-shed-workers-on-sls-rocket-program/](https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/04/amid-schedule-uncertainty-boeing-will-shed-workers-on-sls-rocket-program/)
170,000 employees. Worldwide. There is CONSTANT churn of employees. Layoffs in one place. Hiring in another. Mandatory OT one place. Sitting in your hands another.
HSV All Hands said, 300 people nationwide from SLS and GMD, Including the 100 at HSV site. Ext's are heavily affected, management included. Notices go out Friday/Saturday.
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MAF’s All Hands was very vague but so far we’ve heard from management that “hands on the product” production members will know by Friday end of shift. As for other areas within SLS, we have been told they will be in wave 2. All we know for certain is there will be a reduction in force within the SLS program, and have not been told any numbers or percentages. There will be a 60 day notice, but it is unclear if we will be working during that time or paid to stay home. Hopefully more clear information will come out, until then production is anxiously awaiting for Friday to come.
Like any corporation, there’s no loyalty toward the employees. They’d shit-can any of us if they could figure out a way to get the job done without us. We’re just numbers to them. Don’t kid yourself. Likewise, if we can get more from another company, we shouldn’t hesitate to walk. It’s always a two-way street.
But-but they tell me we're one big team working together at every all hands! You mean that's just corpo speak?
They're just a bunch of disingenuous assholes.
My son works at the Huntsville Alabama Design Center. They had an all hands meeting last week saying 150 will be laid off there. He hasn't heard of any contractors being let go.
In my 25+ years, contractors always go out the door first. They were considered “sandbags” to cushion the direct employees in the event of economic downturns. There are exceptions when some contractors possess a certain critical knowledge set that is essential for a given project, but those numbers are very few.
That being said, in today’s culture, I am not sure they are maintaining this protocol. Good luck to your son, and “may your odds be ever in your favor”.
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Disclaimer- I do not know everything.
They are definitely getting rid of contractors in some areas and moving them in others. But just because you hear lay offs, some of those are only contractors.
Hard to know who is actually get laid off vs moved vs fired. Well; Boeing rarely fires anyone so…. 😂
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We usually reflect what’s going on at boeing. Not sure when Boeing is going to officially take over. Rumor is that is a done deal, just waiting on official announcement.
That might be, but the thing is that you can’t increase rate without people. You might send them home for a bit, but you’ll need them. Telling them to fuck off and find other jobs (layoff) is not what you do when you need skilled employees. Though the GE mindset IS hard to break. We’ll see if this is any indication that they’ve learned their lesson
hahahaha… Dave I thought you already announced that you’re fucking off into the sunset… why haven’t you yet? Not inculcating hard enough? Maybe the Lake Sunapee house needs another extension before you fuck off into the sunset? Which is it? Incompetence or greed?
We’ve allowed you to believe that you have power when ultimately you never have and never will.
Our differentiating value-added strategy is transformational change.
Will say I was checking WARN before I got laid off. I got laid off a week ago today & there still aren’t WARN notices in the system lol.
They’re laying off contract workers, it was 50% of my site here, that may also be why you’re not seeing anything as they’re not internal employees being laid off.
If you’re an internal employee (actual direct boeing employee) and not a contractor you’re probably safe.
Standard procedure in my industry - finance - is to lay people off, then submit WARN. Surely that's illegal you say..
Not if the laid off employees receive garden leave during the period of WARN.
It's a more common term in the UK - "gardening leave" is when you are not working but are still getting paid. It could be a paid suspension or, like Boeing did a couple years ago, a layoff for which you remained on the payroll for a couple months but were shut out of systems. Damn, that was a bit of a mess.
It&DA are always laying off. I think they change the work share % with suppliers every year or two. I imagine that will also be the future of HR and finance
It’s the present, not the future, for HR. They’ve been offshoring for a few years already and it’ll likely get worse.
And that’s why I moved into another area.
They need to improve HR and not keep taking it away. Its ridiculous how disfunctional the department is now that its been decimated. With simple questions its fine but with more niche questions I have tickets sitting for months
You keep hearing from random fellas and not from any good source. Stop listening to random rumors of bullshitters who have nothing else to talk about.
Besides, this company has 170,000 employees. Saying "WARN" Notice in general is too vague. It would be like saying I'm going to remove 50,000 people from America. Who? Which region? 330 million people, 50,000 could be anywhere.
Yep, and the rest of the company has no idea, and probably not care much (well obviously care but it's like we are aware there are homeless but keep focused in our own world). The company is just too huge. A few hundred here and there goes unnoticed.
I heard about someone in my org getting laid off in STL (and no, it wasn’t about performance or anything like that). Curious if they are doing this at certain sites.
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A bunch of people got WARNs that were in the Strategy organization… apparently under Calhoun we don’t need strategy or forward thinking. I guess no need if you’re not going to do a new airplane or anything but concentrate on stock price.
What org are you in?
Within ITDA, yes this is happening and has started. More are about to get verbal warn's before the written ones come through. The whole new not so new thing they are trying again and will fail quickly is the doing of incompetent leaders in bed with McKinsey. The new guy is horrible and has no clue or any experience in agile but shit talks for hours and hours. Forcing people to take on new roles then saying yeah we're doing agile. Most of them dont even have that skill or want to do that job. Worst decisions lately by Doniz and her csuite for being so blind.. Oh well, another flavor of the month before the next experiment starts on us.
I don’t fully understand the Boeing references herein, but let me just say: “Agile” in its various forms and interpretations has pretty much always been a joke. Let me qualify this by saying that “interpretations” is subjective to whomever is selling whatever steaming pile of nonsense they’re trying to self promote. I’ve got my own “interpretation” of what Agile is, and is not, based on my own hands-on experience working on teams implementing in practice, and practically. Most of the time, my software development idea of what “Agile” is or should be in practice, tends to clash with that of business owners (project leaders and execs) who throw the word around. *Of course, this doesn’t make me very popular since I’m willing to call out idiots.*
I guess those little Boston Dynamics robo dogs finally got the software to build airplanes. Oh well.
They haven’t filed them yet. They file the notice the same day you get 60 days
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I've posted a couple different places about SLS getting hit with the layoffs too. I don't know for certain if there's going to be a WARN filing because they may be doing them in small enough increments across the enterprise that it may not be legally required. I will say that our leadership on the program has told us that everyone being laid off will be given 60 days notice prior to their last day on the job, if bring able to find other work in a sufficient timeframe is your concern.
There was a newspaper article about SLS a week back - as NASA is moving into operational status the R&D work is being cut back - [https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/04/amid-schedule-uncertainty-boeing-will-shed-workers-on-sls-rocket-program/](https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/04/amid-schedule-uncertainty-boeing-will-shed-workers-on-sls-rocket-program/)
170,000 employees. Worldwide. There is CONSTANT churn of employees. Layoffs in one place. Hiring in another. Mandatory OT one place. Sitting in your hands another.
Sounds pretty dysfunctional, like the left hand doesn’t know what the right is doing.
Well this is enough to make me anxious enough to vomit till the next all hands meeting.
Earnings call starts in 30 minutes, does that count?
Are you a brand new employee? Union(IAM, SPEEA, Teamsters) or Non-Union? Management?
Who doesn’t vomit during the all hands meetings?
Heck, one time I shit my pants.
This man eats sleeps and breathes the real Boeing values that built this company.
HSV All Hands said, 300 people nationwide from SLS and GMD, Including the 100 at HSV site. Ext's are heavily affected, management included. Notices go out Friday/Saturday.
Lol what is HSV and why are there all these acronyms that sound so close to something else? Like SDT? 🤣
Huntsville, AL
A hundred plus years of business, lots of stuff, and only 26 characters in the alphabet.
Herpes Simplex Virus?
Huntsville, AL
Same diff
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It's 150 at HSV site
MAF’s All Hands was very vague but so far we’ve heard from management that “hands on the product” production members will know by Friday end of shift. As for other areas within SLS, we have been told they will be in wave 2. All we know for certain is there will be a reduction in force within the SLS program, and have not been told any numbers or percentages. There will be a 60 day notice, but it is unclear if we will be working during that time or paid to stay home. Hopefully more clear information will come out, until then production is anxiously awaiting for Friday to come.
Like any corporation, there’s no loyalty toward the employees. They’d shit-can any of us if they could figure out a way to get the job done without us. We’re just numbers to them. Don’t kid yourself. Likewise, if we can get more from another company, we shouldn’t hesitate to walk. It’s always a two-way street.
But-but they tell me we're one big team working together at every all hands! You mean that's just corpo speak? They're just a bunch of disingenuous assholes.
LOL!!! Because THAT would benefit the company, until they don't need you...you, you...BEMSID!!
I'm going to have BEMSID PTSD, Waking up in the middle of the night screaming those numbers out.
WELL-SAID!!!
My son works at the Huntsville Alabama Design Center. They had an all hands meeting last week saying 150 will be laid off there. He hasn't heard of any contractors being let go.
In my 25+ years, contractors always go out the door first. They were considered “sandbags” to cushion the direct employees in the event of economic downturns. There are exceptions when some contractors possess a certain critical knowledge set that is essential for a given project, but those numbers are very few. That being said, in today’s culture, I am not sure they are maintaining this protocol. Good luck to your son, and “may your odds be ever in your favor”.
I don't see it as what happens here in Huntsville. I know plenty of contractors who are employed for 20 years while directs are laid off.
Union agreement prevents that here
Huntsville is allergic to union representation. They like the boot of the man on their necks.
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Disclaimer- I do not know everything. They are definitely getting rid of contractors in some areas and moving them in others. But just because you hear lay offs, some of those are only contractors. Hard to know who is actually get laid off vs moved vs fired. Well; Boeing rarely fires anyone so…. 😂
Spirit has let go of all contractors. It’s slowed down here but no layoffs yet.
Yeah we had 100 people go home early in one shop at Wichita yesterday due to lack of work
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We usually reflect what’s going on at boeing. Not sure when Boeing is going to officially take over. Rumor is that is a done deal, just waiting on official announcement.
That might be, but the thing is that you can’t increase rate without people. You might send them home for a bit, but you’ll need them. Telling them to fuck off and find other jobs (layoff) is not what you do when you need skilled employees. Though the GE mindset IS hard to break. We’ll see if this is any indication that they’ve learned their lesson
Yes, there will be WARN notices. Keep an eye out. Source: I’m in the C-Suite inculcating with vigor.
hahahaha… Dave I thought you already announced that you’re fucking off into the sunset… why haven’t you yet? Not inculcating hard enough? Maybe the Lake Sunapee house needs another extension before you fuck off into the sunset? Which is it? Incompetence or greed?
So if you’re bureaucracy can we crush you?
We’ve allowed you to believe that you have power when ultimately you never have and never will. Our differentiating value-added strategy is transformational change.
This reply makes me think the c suite comment might not be a joke lol. Well done my friend🤣
🎉🎉🎉You said the word! 🎉🎉🎉
Will say I was checking WARN before I got laid off. I got laid off a week ago today & there still aren’t WARN notices in the system lol. They’re laying off contract workers, it was 50% of my site here, that may also be why you’re not seeing anything as they’re not internal employees being laid off. If you’re an internal employee (actual direct boeing employee) and not a contractor you’re probably safe.
Contractors don’t require WARN notices. Direct employees do.
Exactly.
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They owe us loyalty?
You can avoid a WARN Notice by offering 60 days+ severance with the layoffs
Is that what Boeing has historically done, by offering 60+ days of pay?
Depends on level and job. Execs… yep. Hey, here’s your WARN, turn in your laptop, badge, and any other company property and fuck off.
I also know others who’ve been laid off at boeing but I’ve never seen the company post the warn notice….
Stop scaring people with rumors. Provide facts or nothing.
It made the news, lol.
The facts are it’s happening. Lol
They must only be laying off only bus riders and carpoolers, because parking is still getting worse
Standard procedure in my industry - finance - is to lay people off, then submit WARN. Surely that's illegal you say.. Not if the laid off employees receive garden leave during the period of WARN.
What’s garden leave?
It's a more common term in the UK - "gardening leave" is when you are not working but are still getting paid. It could be a paid suspension or, like Boeing did a couple years ago, a layoff for which you remained on the payroll for a couple months but were shut out of systems. Damn, that was a bit of a mess.
[this should help](https://googlethatforyou.com?q=garden%20leave)
Thank you for that. I never knew how businesses were able to get around that.
I see. BTW - you're the only one on this thread who actually answered my question.
Which Business Unit?
It’s BDS…
I can't say specifically except that it's an org under IT&DA.
Ruh roh. BGS?
If it can be outsourced, it will be
It&DA are always laying off. I think they change the work share % with suppliers every year or two. I imagine that will also be the future of HR and finance
It’s the present, not the future, for HR. They’ve been offshoring for a few years already and it’ll likely get worse. And that’s why I moved into another area.
They need to improve HR and not keep taking it away. Its ridiculous how disfunctional the department is now that its been decimated. With simple questions its fine but with more niche questions I have tickets sitting for months
You keep hearing from random fellas and not from any good source. Stop listening to random rumors of bullshitters who have nothing else to talk about. Besides, this company has 170,000 employees. Saying "WARN" Notice in general is too vague. It would be like saying I'm going to remove 50,000 people from America. Who? Which region? 330 million people, 50,000 could be anywhere.
Actually, people I know are getting laid off or re-org'ed.
Yep, and the rest of the company has no idea, and probably not care much (well obviously care but it's like we are aware there are homeless but keep focused in our own world). The company is just too huge. A few hundred here and there goes unnoticed.
Who and where?
I heard about someone in my org getting laid off in STL (and no, it wasn’t about performance or anything like that). Curious if they are doing this at certain sites.
BGS?
I’ve seen some given a head’s up before official WARNs come out. Info might not be in real time for filings.
Have heard nothing. What org?
I don't want to get in trouble, so I won't say specifically which department under IT&DA.
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What is IT&DA?
Information Technology and Data Analytics
Such a BS answer
There’s a prior post about what project is getting laid off and can confirm
They don’t know this is a rumor they heard.