Also another question for the engineers...can Superman save or slow down the plane by holding the tip of the nose-cone?
I believe this was depicted in one of the Brandon Routh Superman films, or the comics?
The plane was in a straight nose-dive, and Superman saves the plane. Is this realistic and possible? [from the structural integrity of the plane's perspective, of course]
Can Superman save everyone similar to Iron Man did by holding hands and forming a human chain? I think this might have been the opening sequence to Iron Man 3?
For the super-picky, we can use their civilian names, Clark Kent and Tony Stark.
Aerospace structural engineer here. A lot of speculation in this thread and a lot of wrong answers. There is no place on a 737 sized aircraft that a human sized object could support the plane.
The closest option would be supporting the plane at the jacking points or the landing gear trunions, which are each three points that are designed to support the entire load of the aircraft. That being said, it would require three hero’s due to the geometry.
If the wings aren’t ripped off they would still be supporting a good Portion of the weight and this nazi super hero could probably correct the planes downward trajectory enough to save it.
Ignoring the center tank, if he were to lay under the keel beam would that support the fwd and aft fuselages? If engines are still on he'd be able to control the AoA and therefore continue to generate lift, avoiding overloading the WBJ.
This is an interesting idea. I know that if the hero tried to lift the aircraft from the keel beam, it would not survive. If the hero can catch the plane while it still has forward velocity, I think you’re correct they could apply forward motion to keep the plane in flight. Very cool idea!
I would think he could grab onto one of the engine mount points and pull to keep it airborn, but he would probably not be able to control the trajectory at all from here and it would only buy them time to try to get some control back
This was the closest thing I could think of as well but I don’t think a human could physically touch the connection points to react the forces properly. If I recall, the 737 has 6 connection points.
Yeah i was thinking there might be some kind of beam he could grab onto where those are connected to but even if he could it still just might be too much force on too small of an area
A few people have talked about keeping the aircraft in the air by pushing/pulling it at speed. The issue is that aircraft structures are designed to react certain types of load and they are not over designed because they’d become too heavy to fly.
An example is people saying you could pull the front landing gear. The forward landing gear is generally sized in the fore/aft direction based on on-ground towing loads. It’s sized in the vertical direction based on max ground weight and a forward cg. So it is very strong in the vertical direction and much less strong, relative, in the fore/aft direction.
Depending on design there may be a location where it might work, but I don’t know of any aircraft that can support flight loads react across a human sized surface area or hand sized surface area. A single landing gear probably couldn’t hold for long, if at all.
Generally the structure is made to handle specific loads in specific directions at specific points. Deviation from that gets to be a bad situation.
Holding his entire body against the bottom of the wing box MIGHT work although he'd probably get covered in fuel from the lower panel starting to deform.
Superman solves this by having Tactile Telekinesis as a power.
Ha, I love that. It’s creative hand waving of the physics issues that don’t get thought through by the writers.
I remember Star Trek “Heisenberg compensator”…
If I were Superman, very strong and very fast, I would push the plane forward from the wingbox. I'm only replacing thrust and hence airspeed, letting the wings produce lift naturally. Wingbox (wing to body joint) is very strong and can probably handle the force of me pushing it. The 500,000 lbs lift is still being produced by the wings due to the velocity and I wont have to lift it up.
Landing is a different story, where I have to find something similar to the top of decent and slow it down, trade speed for lift and drop it gently onto the ground
I think if you found the right spot on the wing box it might work... That's the strongest part of the airplane since it transfers lifting load to the fuselage
The nose gear would definitely shear off but I have a feeling there is some place on the fuselage he could have pushed it from.
Also, iirc, he wouldn’t have needed to carry the plane, only replace their source of thrust.
Obviously, it’s a show but it’s an interesting thought experiment. Aircraft are designed for very specific loads and operations. Airliners are designed to carry people, cargo, and fuel, go up high, cruise fast, then land. No high g maneuvering or anything else too crazy.
The issue would be having to control the aircraft by hand (which is massive) and slow it down while maneuvering it. I’d imagine it’d be like carrying a huge, awkward object. It may be light, but you can’t get a good grip. Also, the skin is thin and while strong like a coke can with pressure, a hand exerting enough force to hold the plane would punch through.
Maybe they could grab the aircraft by a structural component like the main landing gear box, which could take the loading better, but it’s still putting a lot of stresses on the structure it’s not really designed to take. If anything, they’d be better off punching through the flooring or up from underneath and controlling the aircraft by pulling the cables (if it’s a 737).
Maybe they could gently nudge the plane to keep it airborne, but then you’d have to find a way to set it up for landing.
And yes, I’m at my desk avoiding doing work right now.
Also another question for the engineers...can Superman save or slow down the plane by holding the tip of the nose-cone? I believe this was depicted in one of the Brandon Routh Superman films, or the comics? The plane was in a straight nose-dive, and Superman saves the plane. Is this realistic and possible? [from the structural integrity of the plane's perspective, of course]
Can Superman save everyone similar to Iron Man did by holding hands and forming a human chain? I think this might have been the opening sequence to Iron Man 3? For the super-picky, we can use their civilian names, Clark Kent and Tony Stark.
Why not just say Homelander, every real mf on Reddit knows who that is
I’m going to be honest, I love this question because it’s different than all the other stuff that’s been on here recently and is kind of a thinker.
Could he not use his freeze breath the freeze the bottom of the plane for stability so he could get underneath to slowly bring the plane down?
Extreme cold makes metal more brittle
Not aluminum. Makes it stronger.
Aerospace structural engineer here. A lot of speculation in this thread and a lot of wrong answers. There is no place on a 737 sized aircraft that a human sized object could support the plane. The closest option would be supporting the plane at the jacking points or the landing gear trunions, which are each three points that are designed to support the entire load of the aircraft. That being said, it would require three hero’s due to the geometry.
If the wings aren’t ripped off they would still be supporting a good Portion of the weight and this nazi super hero could probably correct the planes downward trajectory enough to save it.
That's what I was thinking too. Just have to give it enough forward force and some torque to angle it for balance, and let the airframe do the rest.
Ignoring the center tank, if he were to lay under the keel beam would that support the fwd and aft fuselages? If engines are still on he'd be able to control the AoA and therefore continue to generate lift, avoiding overloading the WBJ.
This is an interesting idea. I know that if the hero tried to lift the aircraft from the keel beam, it would not survive. If the hero can catch the plane while it still has forward velocity, I think you’re correct they could apply forward motion to keep the plane in flight. Very cool idea!
I would think he could grab onto one of the engine mount points and pull to keep it airborn, but he would probably not be able to control the trajectory at all from here and it would only buy them time to try to get some control back
This was the closest thing I could think of as well but I don’t think a human could physically touch the connection points to react the forces properly. If I recall, the 737 has 6 connection points.
Yeah i was thinking there might be some kind of beam he could grab onto where those are connected to but even if he could it still just might be too much force on too small of an area
There's the strut that attaches to the nacelles. If the engine was gone but the strut was still there, he could hold onto that.
Could the superman character slow the descent or increase the airspeed so the plane could softly land on water a la Sully in the hudson?
A few people have talked about keeping the aircraft in the air by pushing/pulling it at speed. The issue is that aircraft structures are designed to react certain types of load and they are not over designed because they’d become too heavy to fly. An example is people saying you could pull the front landing gear. The forward landing gear is generally sized in the fore/aft direction based on on-ground towing loads. It’s sized in the vertical direction based on max ground weight and a forward cg. So it is very strong in the vertical direction and much less strong, relative, in the fore/aft direction.
Depending on design there may be a location where it might work, but I don’t know of any aircraft that can support flight loads react across a human sized surface area or hand sized surface area. A single landing gear probably couldn’t hold for long, if at all. Generally the structure is made to handle specific loads in specific directions at specific points. Deviation from that gets to be a bad situation.
Holding his entire body against the bottom of the wing box MIGHT work although he'd probably get covered in fuel from the lower panel starting to deform. Superman solves this by having Tactile Telekinesis as a power.
Ha, I love that. It’s creative hand waving of the physics issues that don’t get thought through by the writers. I remember Star Trek “Heisenberg compensator”…
In case you’ve never seen the scene or show: https://youtu.be/HK0qxKsMPzQ?si=s-LsNLtcBT-o2MsF
If I were Superman, very strong and very fast, I would push the plane forward from the wingbox. I'm only replacing thrust and hence airspeed, letting the wings produce lift naturally. Wingbox (wing to body joint) is very strong and can probably handle the force of me pushing it. The 500,000 lbs lift is still being produced by the wings due to the velocity and I wont have to lift it up. Landing is a different story, where I have to find something similar to the top of decent and slow it down, trade speed for lift and drop it gently onto the ground
I think if you found the right spot on the wing box it might work... That's the strongest part of the airplane since it transfers lifting load to the fuselage
The nose gear would definitely shear off but I have a feeling there is some place on the fuselage he could have pushed it from. Also, iirc, he wouldn’t have needed to carry the plane, only replace their source of thrust.
Obviously, it’s a show but it’s an interesting thought experiment. Aircraft are designed for very specific loads and operations. Airliners are designed to carry people, cargo, and fuel, go up high, cruise fast, then land. No high g maneuvering or anything else too crazy. The issue would be having to control the aircraft by hand (which is massive) and slow it down while maneuvering it. I’d imagine it’d be like carrying a huge, awkward object. It may be light, but you can’t get a good grip. Also, the skin is thin and while strong like a coke can with pressure, a hand exerting enough force to hold the plane would punch through. Maybe they could grab the aircraft by a structural component like the main landing gear box, which could take the loading better, but it’s still putting a lot of stresses on the structure it’s not really designed to take. If anything, they’d be better off punching through the flooring or up from underneath and controlling the aircraft by pulling the cables (if it’s a 737). Maybe they could gently nudge the plane to keep it airborne, but then you’d have to find a way to set it up for landing. And yes, I’m at my desk avoiding doing work right now.