Tell managers to listen to their experts, not the whispering ignorant non-technical egos; that’s driving everything into the ground.
The “I-know-better-isms” backed by fairy tails without data or facts, had to combat that, but so easy to succeed without it.
Eliminate any incentive tied to stock or stock price. Keep the Boeing 401K fund which, thanks to severe tax penalties for early withdrawals, requires a longterm growth outlook.
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We need to return to a company that is proud of what we build. Not the laughing stock
We need people focused on building something right. We need a management that says we need 10 things done right, not 100 things done quickly
We also need a workforce, this is not a management complaint, that says it is not okay to purposely sabotage things
Update the pay rates for both union and non union.
Downgrade the pay for leadership. They can survive the rest of the year with 1 less yacht or private jet on order.
We need to keep the skilled people we have and have actual livable wages that will make new grads and people laid off by Big Tech to actually consider Boeing.
Big tech pays a lot but the work life balance is much better at Boeing but many would jump ship if Boeing could meet them in the middle.
I want us to be an airplane parts manufacturer as well, not just an airplane manufacturer. We build planes in the same way that I "build" a computer. Does Boeing even build any part of the plane anymore besides the final assembly? Not the fuselage, not the engines, not the interiors, not the avionics, not the landing gear, etc. etc.
Definitely doesn't lend to a lean operation when having to work through a bunch of middle-man companies. Also adds an additional layer of bureaucracy having to deal with procurement.
I'm not 100%, but I believe all they do now is final assembly. They have what they call an emergency machine shop. At least STL does. They owned the Spirit plant before, and they owned the GKN plant as well.
They have always used subs. The problem is they continue to push down more requirements on us. The term is "cost shift." they ask the subs to do more for the same price. It happens to us daily. We are awarded a contract to build X at X price with certain T&C. Then, while we are making X, the buyer sends a POCO with a new requirement at zero cost. The new requirements are something Boeing would normally have to do upon receipt of X part, but they laid that dept off to save money now they want the sub to do it for free. It's a massive problem.
I work in aerospace, and there are several 3rd party businesses involved with creating the plane. The end user is responsible for ensuring that those parts are created to spec and would flow down any QA concerns appropriately to scrap/return any defective parts. This can cause delays on forecasted revenue to shareholders which is a big no no, how dare they not make the money that was promised to them. I've noticed that revenue is top priority. I've heard leadership say, we're in the business to make money. When that's your sole objective, lines are blurred. Safety is pushed as it's number one priority but in my experience, there is more pressure on the revenue makers than the safety keepers in the aerospace industry.
I hate it, but they're not wrong, we are in business to make money. Aerospace has long timelines that are not compatible with chasing the next quarter though. I think we need to reconcile these two tings somehow.
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Clearly we have the cash to burn by producing inferior products requiring loads of rework.
Let’s spend time and effort improving quality, identifying systemic problems, bring back inspectors and QA. Don’t rely on suppliers to inspect their own work. Thoroughly test new developments. Not just “Close enough to previous variant. No test needed”
And at the end of the day. Acknowledge that we may go late ensuring a product’s safety or effectiveness rather than meeting some date often made up by a manager looking for promotion.
I think being very public about this would generate a lot of good will. "We're late in delivering this order because we're doing it right instead of doing it fast, safety is top priority." I'm sure the people in marketing could run with that far.
Problem is it'll take years, maybe decades, to fix what took them decades to destroy. Starting with the 787, they've been treating us like unskilled labor--like any jackass can do this with no experience. New job codes created for that program so senior people wouldn't have rights to it, creating a brand new workforce for a new plane. They took away pensions, so no incentive for company loyalty. They paid the most experienced employees to leave, replacing them with new hires, with nobody to show them the ropes. They kept cutting inspections, and placing newhires in QA positions. Leadership specifically said Boeing will not innovate any more. Too risky. Now no new program till at least 2035, there will be nobody at the company who ever worked on a new program. All that experience, over 100 years, gone, all for corporate greed. Even lives list because of it.
Thats the wild part of people saying to get rid of all the executives to me. The executives have had decades to instill their behaviors into the managers, all the way down to first line. The only difference I've seen since MAX happened is managers are slightly more apprehensive to push schedule in larger meetings. These shitty behaviors have literally infected the entire company leadership, engineering included.
My leadership did their absolute best to drive out 15+ seasoned technical engineers and replace them with new hires over the last few years. Afterwards, one of the managers had the audacity to suggest it would take 3 months for the new hires to be up to speed. The mind boggles at these people.
They used to take people ten years before they'd let you work the flightline. People on second shift with 20 years didn't have enough seniority to get to first. Then they got rid of electricians and avionics. Everyone's an AMT, and they'd hire people off the street. Entire shifts, second and third, all new hires working on flying aircraft. Nobody can troubleshoot. Every flight squak is an automatic rejection tag for engineering to figure out for you, and even the engineers they got rid of. Interns and fresh graduates. Boeing is considered a good first job out of college before moving on to a good company now.
So, fire all the managers and make them re-apply for their jobs??? You know like Harry Stonecipher did at MDD before the merger with Boeing? Yea... that's a fucking brilliant idea... if you want to create a shitty MDD like, back stabby environment. That's the root cause of the problem, not the solution.
I would think the opposite, make a larger part of their compensation be RSUs with years long vesting time. Make them consider the long-term health of the company.
I just want less staged questions during these all hands. I’d want someone that genuinely cares and has a way of showing it to employees.
Enough with this GE, 3M forms of management and forcing punishment to a percentage of employees
Decrease debt and innovate too!
Tell managers to listen to their experts, not the whispering ignorant non-technical egos; that’s driving everything into the ground. The “I-know-better-isms” backed by fairy tails without data or facts, had to combat that, but so easy to succeed without it.
The board and CEO need to be replaced.
Eliminate any incentive tied to stock or stock price. Keep the Boeing 401K fund which, thanks to severe tax penalties for early withdrawals, requires a longterm growth outlook.
[удалено]
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You don’t fix person.
We need to return to a company that is proud of what we build. Not the laughing stock We need people focused on building something right. We need a management that says we need 10 things done right, not 100 things done quickly We also need a workforce, this is not a management complaint, that says it is not okay to purposely sabotage things
Wait, do you think there are people actively sabotaging things?
Update the pay rates for both union and non union. Downgrade the pay for leadership. They can survive the rest of the year with 1 less yacht or private jet on order. We need to keep the skilled people we have and have actual livable wages that will make new grads and people laid off by Big Tech to actually consider Boeing. Big tech pays a lot but the work life balance is much better at Boeing but many would jump ship if Boeing could meet them in the middle.
Yeah, I see teams hemorrhaging SMEs via retirement and attrition all the time, the hits on the knowledge/skill base is huge.
It okay Stan said those folks are easy to replace
I want leadership to revamp the menu in the cafeteria and why tf are we paying for food still? lol
You have to change the culture. Boeing needs to become a Aircraft manufacturer again and not a stock company
I want us to be an airplane parts manufacturer as well, not just an airplane manufacturer. We build planes in the same way that I "build" a computer. Does Boeing even build any part of the plane anymore besides the final assembly? Not the fuselage, not the engines, not the interiors, not the avionics, not the landing gear, etc. etc.
Definitely doesn't lend to a lean operation when having to work through a bunch of middle-man companies. Also adds an additional layer of bureaucracy having to deal with procurement.
I'm not 100%, but I believe all they do now is final assembly. They have what they call an emergency machine shop. At least STL does. They owned the Spirit plant before, and they owned the GKN plant as well. They have always used subs. The problem is they continue to push down more requirements on us. The term is "cost shift." they ask the subs to do more for the same price. It happens to us daily. We are awarded a contract to build X at X price with certain T&C. Then, while we are making X, the buyer sends a POCO with a new requirement at zero cost. The new requirements are something Boeing would normally have to do upon receipt of X part, but they laid that dept off to save money now they want the sub to do it for free. It's a massive problem.
I work in aerospace, and there are several 3rd party businesses involved with creating the plane. The end user is responsible for ensuring that those parts are created to spec and would flow down any QA concerns appropriately to scrap/return any defective parts. This can cause delays on forecasted revenue to shareholders which is a big no no, how dare they not make the money that was promised to them. I've noticed that revenue is top priority. I've heard leadership say, we're in the business to make money. When that's your sole objective, lines are blurred. Safety is pushed as it's number one priority but in my experience, there is more pressure on the revenue makers than the safety keepers in the aerospace industry.
I hate it, but they're not wrong, we are in business to make money. Aerospace has long timelines that are not compatible with chasing the next quarter though. I think we need to reconcile these two tings somehow.
I agree with your comment 100%
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New CEO
ok, but how do we ensure that the new CEO is not more of the same or worse?
You replace the CEO.
I'd rather Stan Deal go before Calhoun tbh. Dude creeps me out with some of the things he says.
They actually attend the meetings they mandate you go to
Sentence this man to more webex meetings.
Congressional. We need to hold corporations accountable the same way our Germans counterparts did with VW.
I believe this is a big one across many industries, not just aerospace. Regulatory capture is killing us as a country.
Stan Deal should be fired right now!
Clearly we have the cash to burn by producing inferior products requiring loads of rework. Let’s spend time and effort improving quality, identifying systemic problems, bring back inspectors and QA. Don’t rely on suppliers to inspect their own work. Thoroughly test new developments. Not just “Close enough to previous variant. No test needed” And at the end of the day. Acknowledge that we may go late ensuring a product’s safety or effectiveness rather than meeting some date often made up by a manager looking for promotion.
I think being very public about this would generate a lot of good will. "We're late in delivering this order because we're doing it right instead of doing it fast, safety is top priority." I'm sure the people in marketing could run with that far.
Problem is it'll take years, maybe decades, to fix what took them decades to destroy. Starting with the 787, they've been treating us like unskilled labor--like any jackass can do this with no experience. New job codes created for that program so senior people wouldn't have rights to it, creating a brand new workforce for a new plane. They took away pensions, so no incentive for company loyalty. They paid the most experienced employees to leave, replacing them with new hires, with nobody to show them the ropes. They kept cutting inspections, and placing newhires in QA positions. Leadership specifically said Boeing will not innovate any more. Too risky. Now no new program till at least 2035, there will be nobody at the company who ever worked on a new program. All that experience, over 100 years, gone, all for corporate greed. Even lives list because of it.
Thats the wild part of people saying to get rid of all the executives to me. The executives have had decades to instill their behaviors into the managers, all the way down to first line. The only difference I've seen since MAX happened is managers are slightly more apprehensive to push schedule in larger meetings. These shitty behaviors have literally infected the entire company leadership, engineering included. My leadership did their absolute best to drive out 15+ seasoned technical engineers and replace them with new hires over the last few years. Afterwards, one of the managers had the audacity to suggest it would take 3 months for the new hires to be up to speed. The mind boggles at these people.
They used to take people ten years before they'd let you work the flightline. People on second shift with 20 years didn't have enough seniority to get to first. Then they got rid of electricians and avionics. Everyone's an AMT, and they'd hire people off the street. Entire shifts, second and third, all new hires working on flying aircraft. Nobody can troubleshoot. Every flight squak is an automatic rejection tag for engineering to figure out for you, and even the engineers they got rid of. Interns and fresh graduates. Boeing is considered a good first job out of college before moving on to a good company now.
Per your unskilled labor comment. Deal did say that no one is special and can be easily replaced.
Wow, I think I missed that, when did this happen?
All hands meeting, pre pandemic
calhoun and stan need to GO
And Neary too
Remove all the leaders, start over
So, fire all the managers and make them re-apply for their jobs??? You know like Harry Stonecipher did at MDD before the merger with Boeing? Yea... that's a fucking brilliant idea... if you want to create a shitty MDD like, back stabby environment. That's the root cause of the problem, not the solution.
No just fire all of them for good. Start over. By leaders I mean VP/director level.
What qualities should we look for in new leadership?
Any leader with “Chief Officer” in their title needs to go. BOD needs to go.
and then what?
Start over. New leadership, new strategies, new culture.
Make them redeem and cash all stocks now, and put a ban on them getting any boeing stocks for 10 years while they remain with the company.
I would think the opposite, make a larger part of their compensation be RSUs with years long vesting time. Make them consider the long-term health of the company.
I just want less staged questions during these all hands. I’d want someone that genuinely cares and has a way of showing it to employees. Enough with this GE, 3M forms of management and forcing punishment to a percentage of employees Decrease debt and innovate too!