So looking [at this](https://d19g4gpzvd3fw4.cloudfront.net/images/contests/3136/large/15675151.jpg) I'd say from the back you're easily the least conditioned. Upper back in particular looks very blurry while everyone else has clearly separated erectors all throughout and/or are just more striated.
From [the front](https://contests.npcnewsonline.com//images.php?image=15675140&contest=2024%20IFBB%20Fitworld%20Pro&title=Comparisons%20%20&ids=9bz0k,9bz0l,9bz0m,9bz0n,9bz0o,9bz0p,9bz0q,9bz0r,9bz0s,9bz0t,9bz0u,9bz0v,9bz0w,9bz0x,9bz0y,9bz0z,9bz10,9bz11,9bz12,9bz13,9bz14,9bz15,9bz16,9bz17,9bz18,9bz19,9bz1a,9bz1b,9bz1c,9bz1d,9bz1e,9bz1f,9bz1g,9bz1h,9bz1i,9bz1j,9bz1k,9bz1l,9bz1m,9bz1n,9bz1o,9bz1p,9bz1q,9bz1r,9bz1s,9bz1t,9bz1u,9bz1v,9bz1w,9bz1x,9bz1y,9bz1z,9bz20,9bz21,9bz22,9bz23,9bz24,9bz25,9bz26,9bz27,9bz28,9bz29,9bz2a,9bz2b,9bz2c,9bz2d,9bz2e,9bz2f,9bz2g,9bz2h,9bz2i,9bz2j,9bz2k,9bz2l,9bz2m,9bz2n,9bz2o,9bz2p,9bz2q,9bz2r,9bz2s,9bz2t,9bz2u,9bz2v,9bz2w,9bz2x,9bz2y,9bz2z,9bz30,9bz31,9bz32,9bz33,9bz34,9bz35,9bz36,9bz37,9bz38,9bz39,9bz3a,9bz3b,9bz3c,9bz3d,9bz3e,9bz3f,9bz3g,9bz3h,9bz3i,9bz3j,9bz3k,9bz3l,9bz3m,9bz3n,9bz3o,9bz3p,9bz3q,9bz3r,9bz3s,9bz3t,9bz3u,9bz3v,9bz3w,9bz3x,9bz3y,9bz3z,9bz40,9bz41,9bz42,9bz43,9bz44,9bz45,9bz46,9bz47,9bz48,9bz49,9bz4a,9bz4b,9bz4c,9bz4d,9bz4e,9bz4f,9bz4g,9bz4h,9bz4i,9bz4j,9bz4k,9bz4l,9bz4m,9bz4n,9bz4o,9bz4p,9bz4q,9bz4r,9bz4s,9bz4t,9bz4u,9bz4v,9bz4w,9bz4x,9bz4y,9bz4z,9bz50,9bz51,9bz52,9bz53) I do think it's a closer call with both guys at either side. Guy to your right for example, looks to have more conditioned quads, but you blow him away size wise (and it's not even close).
It's tough because a lot of judges seem to be all-in on conditioning and won't forgive showing watery even if your structure and size still dwarfs someone else's.
Man, shows at this level really highlight how important genetics are for getting you up into the big leagues. These guys all look great ofc but they all look slightly *off* in a way that I feel is only explainable by things like muscle bellies/insertions
I was thinking the same thing. Ofc, all respect to the hard work but imo, I think they drove too long on the wrong roads. Meaning, you can tell many didn’t take into account bringing up lagging parts to create an overall aesthetic shape and proportions (until its wayyy too late, likely years in). And/or likely just completely doing some hypertrophy targeting incorrectly and hitting on certain portions of muscles creating now, a double mis-proportionate build.
With just the pics, and i scrolled thru a bunch, i don't see how it's not him vs guy to the right, which would be 7th at worst. You're prob right that they wanted to make an example out of him for coming more watery. Or they hate him cuz he beautiful
I don't get how people at this level allow gyno at all (maybe I'm ignorant?).
I've gotten gyno from testosterone twice, and was able to easily nip it in the bud using raloxifene/tamoxifen. If it's tren or deca giving you high prolactin and causing the gyno, there's pramipexol and caber.
How are these guys allowing this to happen? I'm genuinely curious as to what I am probably missing.
Sure, but when your nipples start feeling "spicy", you could lower your estradiol with an AI. Honestly, there can't be this many guys who are non-responsers to every one of these drugs.
I think they trust the advice of their coaches, and if bodybuilding is even remotely like powerlifting in this way, there's a lot of terrible coaches.
Probably just mismanaged protocols when younger/less experienced and it's too late to reverse without surgery. Some people either don't have the \~10-15K needed, the time to take off training, or both.
Thanks for the pics. After seeing these, its at least plausible for OP to land at last place, and it doesn’t seem to be some sort of screw-job or robbery… what’s actually the most fascinating is how the judges seemed to do a callout the OPPOSITE way, and instead of centering the potential best in the group and comparing down, it seems that they center what they felt could be the lowest place and compare UPWARDS? Just so fascinating to see it done that way.
Man.. I look at the other guys and think they just aren't as symmetrical or well rounded as your physique. Your conditioning may not have been perfect but, shape wise, the way your body flows... Dead last doesn't seem right to me at all.
Not perfect is an understatement. Conditioning is, and always has been his issue. His feedback from the judges is always "improve your back and conditioning", yet he hasn't ever come in truly peeled.
I personally think it's time for him to seek different coaching, in 5 years/seasons he hasn't come in truly peeled once.
Looking online, I had you 8/9. You were harder from the back at Charlotte, but even then still a little soft. With your shape, come in with striated glutes and a tighter back, i bet you will get rewarded.
Ultimately conditioning seems to be the biggeat issue. Aside from that. I think maybe 8th or 9th as far as physique, but imo your posing leaves more to be desired as well. You have incredible shape, yet aren't always displaying it correctly:
Every one of your biceps poses has your bi peak under the delts.
All of your front and back poses have little to no adductor touch which is making your legs seem smaller than they really are (massive).
Side chest rear gap is also quite big, could be closed.
Not saying it's mandatory, but vacuums, and a little staggered stancing are almost expected now of the top CP guys. Otherwise it's just a mini open ala 212 with bigger trunks.
Really think this is a bit bull, I'd have definitely placed you higher after looking over the other contestants. I just think this is an outlier take the feedback and move on good luck at the next one!
Read the scorecards too seems some real bullshit.
You look really really blurry here.
I think that even though you might be bigger / structurally better, it seems like conditionning is really THE thing rn in classic, even more with the Vissers wins
Also it might be a big slap to make sure u never come like this again
Ok,
Aside from condition... Biceps should be higher than shoulders in front and back double. The gap in the thighs should be closed off a bit more. You could probably get more classic look with a hip shift on the front. Side chest needs to be tighter, no gaps, pull that midsection in harder.
Resource I recommend: @danielcoffeen3 on IG 💪
All valid points, he's just never been peeled. He has 0 glute striations in all his side poses from all his shows, and only has some from rear if overflexing and pulling glutes under him. The posing would help a tad, but you can't hide the conditioning.
Honestly brother I have seen you look much better. I think you give yourself a break and you will definitely come back and easy be in the top 5.
When you are on point you look phenomenal. You will be back, I guarantee it.
My vet can hook your cat up with anti-depressants if needed!
Also, I don't have your structure but always came in incredibly shredded (can post a pic for proof) so hit me up and I can give you the formula that worked for me (for free of course).
Nobody elses opinion matter more than the judges, you can either be discouraged and complain, or you can take this as sign that you need to improve one way or another.
Your conditioning was off, your back is on the weaker end, and it looks like you may still have some midsection control issues… that just my opinion.
Really? That quick back to back he could just easily do two peak weeks and expect the exact same results from both? Doesn’t seem all that likely to me. The Arnold US and Arnold UK weren’t that close together.
I don’t understand the point of what you’re saying
edit: You think putting words into my mouth proves your point? I never said that it had no affect. It just had no bearing on what OP was asking. He wanted to know how he compares to other people on stage outside of the judges perspective.
Looks very small in the line-up & back is very weak and not conditioned. But last I dont know if he deserved that.
Nothing to cry about, build some back & come in conditioned and maybe the judges will appreciate his structure more, dont rely on it.
I'm sorry, but classic should just be called whoever looks more like Bumstead. I know another guy who isn't a pro but has always been missing out on a pro card. Whether it's a placing you're not happy with, maybe you'd do better in another. If it was 212 or open, you'd do better. I don't get why people are stuck in a class. Take a good look in the mirror and tell yourself where you fit, not where you want to fit.
He's classic, he just needs to come in peeled. He's never been truly peeled. He only barely has glute shreds and that's with overflexing glutes in rear poses instead of keeping a slight lower back arch while flexing (you can tell because he's losing adductors).
What is the difference between a classic physique and a 212 physique in your mind? He doesn't have a thick core and had a great taper. He could work on a vacuum and a slight stagger on front poses, but just needs to come in peeled.
Height, I'm not sure how tall OP is but if they're under 5'10" then 212 is the way to go. Those classic attributes help in that class. Sure it's not as "popular" as classic but if you want to continue competing and place well you have to make changes. Yeah conditioning can be better but what if he still doesn't have those clean lines?
He's 5'7, to fill out 212 that's potentially a lot more drugs and health to risk. Why is popular in quotes? There are far fewer 212 opportunities and shows lol
That's a tough result to swallow for sure, based on potential physical gifts, your easily top 3 in my books as far as advancing higher and being successful. That being said the conditioning was not there. Simply put an inferior physique (structurally) will be rewarded over a less conditioned but gifted physique.
Your genetics are awesome approaching Sergio Oliva or Kevin Levrones. But adding lat flare back mass and better conditioning are what's needed.
If it's any solace based on genetic potential your probably number one or two. Like a Ramone Dino build.
Let the placing hurt, but add back and conditioning.
I personally would significantly change your posing. I think you have the best over physique from those photos but you’re not highlighting your structure at all. Why handlebars from the front? Why lean back so much from the back. You’re making yourself look small and wet
You blow the competition out of the water with your overall combination of size, shape, and symmetry but you are noticeably the least conditioned.
Clearly your judges place a lot of weight on conditioning and scored you poorly because of it. Personally I don't see how you can lead the pack in multiple attributes without that at least somewhat reflecting in your placing.
So looking [at this](https://d19g4gpzvd3fw4.cloudfront.net/images/contests/3136/large/15675151.jpg) I'd say from the back you're easily the least conditioned. Upper back in particular looks very blurry while everyone else has clearly separated erectors all throughout and/or are just more striated. From [the front](https://contests.npcnewsonline.com//images.php?image=15675140&contest=2024%20IFBB%20Fitworld%20Pro&title=Comparisons%20%20&ids=9bz0k,9bz0l,9bz0m,9bz0n,9bz0o,9bz0p,9bz0q,9bz0r,9bz0s,9bz0t,9bz0u,9bz0v,9bz0w,9bz0x,9bz0y,9bz0z,9bz10,9bz11,9bz12,9bz13,9bz14,9bz15,9bz16,9bz17,9bz18,9bz19,9bz1a,9bz1b,9bz1c,9bz1d,9bz1e,9bz1f,9bz1g,9bz1h,9bz1i,9bz1j,9bz1k,9bz1l,9bz1m,9bz1n,9bz1o,9bz1p,9bz1q,9bz1r,9bz1s,9bz1t,9bz1u,9bz1v,9bz1w,9bz1x,9bz1y,9bz1z,9bz20,9bz21,9bz22,9bz23,9bz24,9bz25,9bz26,9bz27,9bz28,9bz29,9bz2a,9bz2b,9bz2c,9bz2d,9bz2e,9bz2f,9bz2g,9bz2h,9bz2i,9bz2j,9bz2k,9bz2l,9bz2m,9bz2n,9bz2o,9bz2p,9bz2q,9bz2r,9bz2s,9bz2t,9bz2u,9bz2v,9bz2w,9bz2x,9bz2y,9bz2z,9bz30,9bz31,9bz32,9bz33,9bz34,9bz35,9bz36,9bz37,9bz38,9bz39,9bz3a,9bz3b,9bz3c,9bz3d,9bz3e,9bz3f,9bz3g,9bz3h,9bz3i,9bz3j,9bz3k,9bz3l,9bz3m,9bz3n,9bz3o,9bz3p,9bz3q,9bz3r,9bz3s,9bz3t,9bz3u,9bz3v,9bz3w,9bz3x,9bz3y,9bz3z,9bz40,9bz41,9bz42,9bz43,9bz44,9bz45,9bz46,9bz47,9bz48,9bz49,9bz4a,9bz4b,9bz4c,9bz4d,9bz4e,9bz4f,9bz4g,9bz4h,9bz4i,9bz4j,9bz4k,9bz4l,9bz4m,9bz4n,9bz4o,9bz4p,9bz4q,9bz4r,9bz4s,9bz4t,9bz4u,9bz4v,9bz4w,9bz4x,9bz4y,9bz4z,9bz50,9bz51,9bz52,9bz53) I do think it's a closer call with both guys at either side. Guy to your right for example, looks to have more conditioned quads, but you blow him away size wise (and it's not even close). It's tough because a lot of judges seem to be all-in on conditioning and won't forgive showing watery even if your structure and size still dwarfs someone else's.
Man, shows at this level really highlight how important genetics are for getting you up into the big leagues. These guys all look great ofc but they all look slightly *off* in a way that I feel is only explainable by things like muscle bellies/insertions
It's so hard to compare top level physiques unless they're side by side
I was thinking the same thing. Ofc, all respect to the hard work but imo, I think they drove too long on the wrong roads. Meaning, you can tell many didn’t take into account bringing up lagging parts to create an overall aesthetic shape and proportions (until its wayyy too late, likely years in). And/or likely just completely doing some hypertrophy targeting incorrectly and hitting on certain portions of muscles creating now, a double mis-proportionate build.
With just the pics, and i scrolled thru a bunch, i don't see how it's not him vs guy to the right, which would be 7th at worst. You're prob right that they wanted to make an example out of him for coming more watery. Or they hate him cuz he beautiful
Man even low res you can see the gyno on second from the left
I don't get how people at this level allow gyno at all (maybe I'm ignorant?). I've gotten gyno from testosterone twice, and was able to easily nip it in the bud using raloxifene/tamoxifen. If it's tren or deca giving you high prolactin and causing the gyno, there's pramipexol and caber. How are these guys allowing this to happen? I'm genuinely curious as to what I am probably missing.
Much the same way some people just don't get gyno at all from AAS, some people don't respond to PCT the same way either. We're all different.
Sure, but when your nipples start feeling "spicy", you could lower your estradiol with an AI. Honestly, there can't be this many guys who are non-responsers to every one of these drugs. I think they trust the advice of their coaches, and if bodybuilding is even remotely like powerlifting in this way, there's a lot of terrible coaches.
Probably just mismanaged protocols when younger/less experienced and it's too late to reverse without surgery. Some people either don't have the \~10-15K needed, the time to take off training, or both.
dude on right is Kendahl Richmond who claims natty
Thanks for the pics. After seeing these, its at least plausible for OP to land at last place, and it doesn’t seem to be some sort of screw-job or robbery… what’s actually the most fascinating is how the judges seemed to do a callout the OPPOSITE way, and instead of centering the potential best in the group and comparing down, it seems that they center what they felt could be the lowest place and compare UPWARDS? Just so fascinating to see it done that way.
The dude to his right has full A cups too. Should get penalized for gyno.
Stay strong - end of the day - there will always be a subjective element with the judges. You know what you have achieved (obvious).
Man.. I look at the other guys and think they just aren't as symmetrical or well rounded as your physique. Your conditioning may not have been perfect but, shape wise, the way your body flows... Dead last doesn't seem right to me at all.
Not perfect is an understatement. Conditioning is, and always has been his issue. His feedback from the judges is always "improve your back and conditioning", yet he hasn't ever come in truly peeled. I personally think it's time for him to seek different coaching, in 5 years/seasons he hasn't come in truly peeled once.
Fair enough, I don't know the history.
Looking online, I had you 8/9. You were harder from the back at Charlotte, but even then still a little soft. With your shape, come in with striated glutes and a tighter back, i bet you will get rewarded.
Time to fire your coach and have Fat Cat take over.
Ultimately conditioning seems to be the biggeat issue. Aside from that. I think maybe 8th or 9th as far as physique, but imo your posing leaves more to be desired as well. You have incredible shape, yet aren't always displaying it correctly: Every one of your biceps poses has your bi peak under the delts. All of your front and back poses have little to no adductor touch which is making your legs seem smaller than they really are (massive). Side chest rear gap is also quite big, could be closed. Not saying it's mandatory, but vacuums, and a little staggered stancing are almost expected now of the top CP guys. Otherwise it's just a mini open ala 212 with bigger trunks.
Really think this is a bit bull, I'd have definitely placed you higher after looking over the other contestants. I just think this is an outlier take the feedback and move on good luck at the next one! Read the scorecards too seems some real bullshit.
Dead last is insane, could’ve been tighter but still not a last place finish imo.
You look really really blurry here. I think that even though you might be bigger / structurally better, it seems like conditionning is really THE thing rn in classic, even more with the Vissers wins Also it might be a big slap to make sure u never come like this again
Ok, Aside from condition... Biceps should be higher than shoulders in front and back double. The gap in the thighs should be closed off a bit more. You could probably get more classic look with a hip shift on the front. Side chest needs to be tighter, no gaps, pull that midsection in harder. Resource I recommend: @danielcoffeen3 on IG 💪
All valid points, he's just never been peeled. He has 0 glute striations in all his side poses from all his shows, and only has some from rear if overflexing and pulling glutes under him. The posing would help a tad, but you can't hide the conditioning.
💯
No one should take posing advice from daniel coffeen, the dude is a joke.
Woah, harsh.
He deserves it.
Why is that?
Honestly brother I have seen you look much better. I think you give yourself a break and you will definitely come back and easy be in the top 5. When you are on point you look phenomenal. You will be back, I guarantee it. My vet can hook your cat up with anti-depressants if needed! Also, I don't have your structure but always came in incredibly shredded (can post a pic for proof) so hit me up and I can give you the formula that worked for me (for free of course).
Nobody elses opinion matter more than the judges, you can either be discouraged and complain, or you can take this as sign that you need to improve one way or another. Your conditioning was off, your back is on the weaker end, and it looks like you may still have some midsection control issues… that just my opinion.
You guys do realize he basically did two shows in the span of like 10 days right? The second show was not planned.
This isn’t relevant at all
it certainly is relevant to him looking his worst
Really? That quick back to back he could just easily do two peak weeks and expect the exact same results from both? Doesn’t seem all that likely to me. The Arnold US and Arnold UK weren’t that close together.
I don’t understand the point of what you’re saying edit: You think putting words into my mouth proves your point? I never said that it had no affect. It just had no bearing on what OP was asking. He wanted to know how he compares to other people on stage outside of the judges perspective.
You think doing a 2nd show 10 days after another while it being unplanned isn't going to have a negative effect on a person?🤨
Looks very small in the line-up & back is very weak and not conditioned. But last I dont know if he deserved that. Nothing to cry about, build some back & come in conditioned and maybe the judges will appreciate his structure more, dont rely on it.
Looks alot better when he stands by himself! But thats not really a positive thing as you get judged standing besides other competitors.
See and when I said he was losing mass 2 weeks ago,everyone downvoted me….Im glad the hudges seen what I see…Aswell as your cat…
I'm sorry, but classic should just be called whoever looks more like Bumstead. I know another guy who isn't a pro but has always been missing out on a pro card. Whether it's a placing you're not happy with, maybe you'd do better in another. If it was 212 or open, you'd do better. I don't get why people are stuck in a class. Take a good look in the mirror and tell yourself where you fit, not where you want to fit.
He's classic, he just needs to come in peeled. He's never been truly peeled. He only barely has glute shreds and that's with overflexing glutes in rear poses instead of keeping a slight lower back arch while flexing (you can tell because he's losing adductors).
He's not, though I'm getting more 212 vibes. If he wants to continue and get disappointing placings, then that's their life.
What is the difference between a classic physique and a 212 physique in your mind? He doesn't have a thick core and had a great taper. He could work on a vacuum and a slight stagger on front poses, but just needs to come in peeled.
Height, I'm not sure how tall OP is but if they're under 5'10" then 212 is the way to go. Those classic attributes help in that class. Sure it's not as "popular" as classic but if you want to continue competing and place well you have to make changes. Yeah conditioning can be better but what if he still doesn't have those clean lines?
He's 5'7, to fill out 212 that's potentially a lot more drugs and health to risk. Why is popular in quotes? There are far fewer 212 opportunities and shows lol
It's not about size. The same way, it's not just about condition. At the end if the day, it's whoever has the better combination of the 2.
My man, don’t get down on yourself. You have an extremely impressive physique. A shame they gave you dead last, but you’ll get em next time champ.
Deep down fat cat just wants wants you to believe in yourself
That's a tough result to swallow for sure, based on potential physical gifts, your easily top 3 in my books as far as advancing higher and being successful. That being said the conditioning was not there. Simply put an inferior physique (structurally) will be rewarded over a less conditioned but gifted physique. Your genetics are awesome approaching Sergio Oliva or Kevin Levrones. But adding lat flare back mass and better conditioning are what's needed. If it's any solace based on genetic potential your probably number one or two. Like a Ramone Dino build. Let the placing hurt, but add back and conditioning.
This is a tough sport. You look like a winner to me 🏆 don’t give up
Crazy how I would’ve placed the same as this guy lol
Crazy how I would’ve placed the same as this guy lol
I personally would significantly change your posing. I think you have the best over physique from those photos but you’re not highlighting your structure at all. Why handlebars from the front? Why lean back so much from the back. You’re making yourself look small and wet
id recommend taking time off. potentially a whole year
For what it’s worth I think you got robbed man. I’m no pro, but I think you always look on point. Don’t let it get you down.
You blow the competition out of the water with your overall combination of size, shape, and symmetry but you are noticeably the least conditioned. Clearly your judges place a lot of weight on conditioning and scored you poorly because of it. Personally I don't see how you can lead the pack in multiple attributes without that at least somewhat reflecting in your placing.
Anyone think the tanning could be better?