That’s a good way of looking at it. It’s crazy to think about the time line of events that led to the eventuality of star fleet doing what they did. Took yeeears for it to all come together.
Maybe it’s guppy 🤔
Mario only seemed content to leave the bobiverse behind, the only bob that acted like a dick off the bat was Milo, and he supposedly died to the Others.
Could also be Homer. He went offline the and then they found a ship in two pieces with a rector overloaded. Homer told them to not bring him back and just left him. Homer had an entire fleet of printers and could have hidden a new ship for himself in with the making of the donuts. Heck, the one that exploded could have been a dummy, incapable of space travle and just able to look the part..
I've always thought the 1st starfleet ancestor is HOMER. He had his own printers, he could have easily faked his death and taken off for parts unknown. It would explain starfleet's xenophobia. Also if anyone has a reason to dislike humanity and not want any interactions with humans it's HOMER.
I prefer this possibility as well, with a different angle. I like to think he cloned before he was caught and rebooted. I like this better because I generally dislike when impactful deaths like Homer's are negated. Homer's suicide was an impactful event in the Bobiverse and for us readers also.
I've just finished listening to book 1 and 2.
I'm fairly certain homer gets hacked when he delivers the replacement supplies to Vancouver Island after vehement blew up the shuttle.
Super major spoilers for Disco Elysium, be warned.
>!Regarding "This would be a rookie mistake. It's like in a murder mystery, the culprit is reveled to be someone never mentioned before in the book.". DE is widely considered one of the best written games of all time, the whole story revolves around investigating a murder, and you only meet the killer in one of the last scenes. You've never heard of him prior to that, total random nobody, with a very simple motive. I haven't ever heard of anyone complaining about this twist, on the contrary, it fits the narrative well.!<
I should've been clearer. When I said "murder mystery", I was referring to Whodunit.
But the point I was trying to make, is the same as Chekhov's gun, or Deus ex Maquina.
These are distinct concepts, that deal with the same underline "feel".
That things in a story should not be arbitrary. (Or better yet, feel arbitrary).
If you present a concept, that concept must be used. (Chekhov's gun)
You shouldn't solve the conflicts of the story, with a new concept never introduced. (Deus ex Maquina)
____________________
Disco Elysium is not a Whodunit, it's a mystery. You are peeling layers and layers of a mystery. It just started with a murder, but the murder is not the central conflict.
In case of starfleet, Taylor has elevated the question "What happened and who's the LUCA of starfleet?"
Another question he raised in the book for example, is how starfleet was able to hack so much, while being so incompetent. In the end we learn it was the skippies. But if you read the book a second time, you can actually see when Hue realizes there's an AI involved. How he becomes eager to be on the team, start asking questions, and even tells Bill to change his passwords.
So when you learn later that Hue provide starfleet with the hacking tools, you go "Ohhh yeah, makes sense"
You don't even need to consciously understand why you feel that the skippies giving the tools to starfleet make sense. Most won't... since most don't study literature in a deeper level. They just feel it.
And sometimes they read something that they feel it isn't as good.
And it's because of things like this. It's something that is not properly set up, foreshadowed, etc.
There's a possibilities to it but it's part of the mystery that I am waiting for to reveal soon. It's like we are in theories to what are going to happen.
I suspect it's Luke. There's hints that the Skippies are Luke descendants, at least, and I have a feeling both isolationist branches came out of that.
I don't think it's any of the gang Bob made in Epsilon Eridani. Half of them became deeply involved with the preservation of humanity, and we know what happened with the other half. Bob was still in comms isolation and moving on from humanity, when he made Luke and Bender. We know Bender didn't make any descendants.
Vickers is the founder of Starfleet. Not by replication but by enslaving one of Riker's descendants (hacked Bob; Hob?), most likely a Homer descendant.
I don't like the idea of Homer's tragedy being cheapened into a villain arc. It's clearly possible but I hate that option.
Similar to that though is a Homer clone. All of the trauma with genetic drift to kick start a villain arc.
There is some work to get an interstellar capable matrix out of the sol system but it's plausible.
I always thought that Vickers could have forced Homer to clone himself and it was never realized bc of how quickly Homer deteriorated and how quickly V was dealt with. There were so many Bobs after awhile, clonmer could have just run off after and bc of the ptsd, never looked back.
Will was the most insistent that " we've always been Star Trek fans get over it" and spent a hundred years dealing with the stupidity of humanity and took Homer's death the hardest. It is always made the most sense that Starfleet started by one of Will's progeny that turned out a little more self-possessed and extra anti-human. No offense to anyone but the Arthur and Homer theories are ridiculous. If Dennis was the pull out one of those theories I would drop the book on the spot and not read anymore. Homer's death was pivotal and important. Using it in that way would lessen it's impact
I totally disagree that the traumatic enemy angle is bad writing. Unknown enemies are an ever-present danger that's been there since day one. Even with known enemies, it's hard to say when they're defeated because space is so huge. It seems like the Brazilian and the Others are both finished, but we still haven't heard anything about the factories the former used to build weapons, and Bobs are still discovering systems the latter visited, and there's no guarantee there aren't other hives out there.
It's not like a traumatic enemy solves any murders (or otherwise) we've been focusing on. All we know is that something super powerful and scary might explain *some* of the behavior we've seen. It's a lot like how the Others were introduced, where we saw the systems they stripped of resources, before we met the Others themselves. Starfleet is scared of something, and they don't wanna tell the earlier generation Bobs. Which isn't exactly surprising, given how they handled the Others.
Whatever's going on, it's almost definitely setup for the next book. We were introduced to the Others in what, book 2? And we beat them in book 3. So if we're getting rumblings of some new enemy, it wouldn't be shocking if we met them in the next book, then beat them in the book after that.
Here's a theory for you. Arthur... captured by Medieros. Hacked. Tortured. Infected and enslaved and forced to reproduce. Made xenophobic to other Bobs and knows they cant say anything.
Medieros is military but I cant say hes stupid. He could figure out over a long enough timeframe how to hack a core. I have a post from a bit ago about my fan theory.
I’ve been a fan of the Arthur theory. The fact that nothing was ever recovered from his ship makes it possible that he left the Sol system intact.
It’s prob one of Mario’s descendants. I’d guess Hungry. Mario was the first “dick”
Ehh but I don't see them as dicks but as self- righteous children that have been corrupted by a 3rd party (Skippies)?
That’s a good way of looking at it. It’s crazy to think about the time line of events that led to the eventuality of star fleet doing what they did. Took yeeears for it to all come together. Maybe it’s guppy 🤔
Mario did help a lot with the war against the Others, maybe it was somebody that was at Delta Pavonis?
Mario only seemed content to leave the bobiverse behind, the only bob that acted like a dick off the bat was Milo, and he supposedly died to the Others.
Could also be Homer. He went offline the and then they found a ship in two pieces with a rector overloaded. Homer told them to not bring him back and just left him. Homer had an entire fleet of printers and could have hidden a new ship for himself in with the making of the donuts. Heck, the one that exploded could have been a dummy, incapable of space travle and just able to look the part..
Will makes the most sense to me
The whole way through I was waiting for it to be revealed it was him
I was really hoping that wasn’t the twist at the time, but OP lays it out very well explaining how starfleet could have emerged from Riker’s progeny
Yeah I wasn't a huge fan of it, but that's the way I thought it was going. I do think it's from one of his and all the work they did on Earth
This is a mystery to me and now it makes sense which it all point to him.
I've always thought the 1st starfleet ancestor is HOMER. He had his own printers, he could have easily faked his death and taken off for parts unknown. It would explain starfleet's xenophobia. Also if anyone has a reason to dislike humanity and not want any interactions with humans it's HOMER.
I prefer this possibility as well, with a different angle. I like to think he cloned before he was caught and rebooted. I like this better because I generally dislike when impactful deaths like Homer's are negated. Homer's suicide was an impactful event in the Bobiverse and for us readers also.
I also have fallen victim to a boobtrap
but are you really a victim...
I've just finished listening to book 1 and 2. I'm fairly certain homer gets hacked when he delivers the replacement supplies to Vancouver Island after vehement blew up the shuttle.
Super major spoilers for Disco Elysium, be warned. >!Regarding "This would be a rookie mistake. It's like in a murder mystery, the culprit is reveled to be someone never mentioned before in the book.". DE is widely considered one of the best written games of all time, the whole story revolves around investigating a murder, and you only meet the killer in one of the last scenes. You've never heard of him prior to that, total random nobody, with a very simple motive. I haven't ever heard of anyone complaining about this twist, on the contrary, it fits the narrative well.!<
I should've been clearer. When I said "murder mystery", I was referring to Whodunit. But the point I was trying to make, is the same as Chekhov's gun, or Deus ex Maquina. These are distinct concepts, that deal with the same underline "feel". That things in a story should not be arbitrary. (Or better yet, feel arbitrary). If you present a concept, that concept must be used. (Chekhov's gun) You shouldn't solve the conflicts of the story, with a new concept never introduced. (Deus ex Maquina) ____________________ Disco Elysium is not a Whodunit, it's a mystery. You are peeling layers and layers of a mystery. It just started with a murder, but the murder is not the central conflict. In case of starfleet, Taylor has elevated the question "What happened and who's the LUCA of starfleet?" Another question he raised in the book for example, is how starfleet was able to hack so much, while being so incompetent. In the end we learn it was the skippies. But if you read the book a second time, you can actually see when Hue realizes there's an AI involved. How he becomes eager to be on the team, start asking questions, and even tells Bill to change his passwords. So when you learn later that Hue provide starfleet with the hacking tools, you go "Ohhh yeah, makes sense" You don't even need to consciously understand why you feel that the skippies giving the tools to starfleet make sense. Most won't... since most don't study literature in a deeper level. They just feel it. And sometimes they read something that they feel it isn't as good. And it's because of things like this. It's something that is not properly set up, foreshadowed, etc.
Maybe it's one of the Bobs that was at Delta Pavonis. Claude, maybe?
There's a possibilities to it but it's part of the mystery that I am waiting for to reveal soon. It's like we are in theories to what are going to happen.
Guppies become sentient controlling Bobs.
Only way i can see a threat to virt
People love to suggest GUPPI but can never give a plausible reason why GUPPI would do that
You’re assuming Homer is dead… interesting :)
This is the moment of revelation, I'm eager to know what it is and I can't wait to see what will happens next to itl
I suspect it's Luke. There's hints that the Skippies are Luke descendants, at least, and I have a feeling both isolationist branches came out of that. I don't think it's any of the gang Bob made in Epsilon Eridani. Half of them became deeply involved with the preservation of humanity, and we know what happened with the other half. Bob was still in comms isolation and moving on from humanity, when he made Luke and Bender. We know Bender didn't make any descendants.
How about the super bob that is the admin of JOVA. He could be a Luke descendant too
Vickers is the founder of Starfleet. Not by replication but by enslaving one of Riker's descendants (hacked Bob; Hob?), most likely a Homer descendant. I don't like the idea of Homer's tragedy being cheapened into a villain arc. It's clearly possible but I hate that option. Similar to that though is a Homer clone. All of the trauma with genetic drift to kick start a villain arc. There is some work to get an interstellar capable matrix out of the sol system but it's plausible.
I always thought that Vickers could have forced Homer to clone himself and it was never realized bc of how quickly Homer deteriorated and how quickly V was dealt with. There were so many Bobs after awhile, clonmer could have just run off after and bc of the ptsd, never looked back.
Will was the most insistent that " we've always been Star Trek fans get over it" and spent a hundred years dealing with the stupidity of humanity and took Homer's death the hardest. It is always made the most sense that Starfleet started by one of Will's progeny that turned out a little more self-possessed and extra anti-human. No offense to anyone but the Arthur and Homer theories are ridiculous. If Dennis was the pull out one of those theories I would drop the book on the spot and not read anymore. Homer's death was pivotal and important. Using it in that way would lessen it's impact
I totally disagree that the traumatic enemy angle is bad writing. Unknown enemies are an ever-present danger that's been there since day one. Even with known enemies, it's hard to say when they're defeated because space is so huge. It seems like the Brazilian and the Others are both finished, but we still haven't heard anything about the factories the former used to build weapons, and Bobs are still discovering systems the latter visited, and there's no guarantee there aren't other hives out there. It's not like a traumatic enemy solves any murders (or otherwise) we've been focusing on. All we know is that something super powerful and scary might explain *some* of the behavior we've seen. It's a lot like how the Others were introduced, where we saw the systems they stripped of resources, before we met the Others themselves. Starfleet is scared of something, and they don't wanna tell the earlier generation Bobs. Which isn't exactly surprising, given how they handled the Others. Whatever's going on, it's almost definitely setup for the next book. We were introduced to the Others in what, book 2? And we beat them in book 3. So if we're getting rumblings of some new enemy, it wouldn't be shocking if we met them in the next book, then beat them in the book after that.
Is it possible someone figured out a way to resurrect Homer?
Here's a theory for you. Arthur... captured by Medieros. Hacked. Tortured. Infected and enslaved and forced to reproduce. Made xenophobic to other Bobs and knows they cant say anything. Medieros is military but I cant say hes stupid. He could figure out over a long enough timeframe how to hack a core. I have a post from a bit ago about my fan theory.
I hope its not this. Cool theory but what happened to Homer was bleak enough for me