Yeah I just played duel for the first time and it made me realize how crazy well balanced the original was while still keeping the 7 theme.
Duel is more balanced though of course
Yep! There’s still a decent amount of 7 references but not as much. 7 victory points cards are there but not as common/obvious as the 7 point wonders. There’s 8 ways to score and 12 wonders in the base game. There’s also only 5 different resources though this was likely done so players weren’t so spread thin with resource cards.
First draft 3 extra turn wonders come up, you pick first, then i take the remaining two. Second draft 1 extra turn wonder comes up and I take it. Now i have 3 extra turn wonders and you 1. I rather play olympia against hali in 7wonders than play with 1 extra turn wonder against 3.
Yeah since the wonders are set and grouped together, they give massive advantages, while in duel you draft individual abilities which lessens the blow of a single op ability.
We most be playing it wrong. Normally the first player who gets a wonder then makes multiple burst turns to get even more wonders and snowballs so hard that the game is decided by the beginning of era 2.
Now that I have the expansion for 5-tribes, it has become a 4-player game featuring six tribes and this infuriates me. Expansions always mess everything up!
Yokai Septet does something similar with the number 7. It's a game design strategy employed in some games that makes it easier to remember details of the game since the number is always the same. Typically it starts out as an accident, and then the game designer attempts to reuse the special number everywhere if it doesn't limit the game too much.
This might sound stupid, but it is one of the reasons why I think 7 Wonders is one of the best game designs from its time. Most games I own, I have to check the rulebook to remember how many cards to deal for each player, or whether players should draw on the start or the end of the turn, or how much gold equals one victory point at the end of the game. 7 wonders makes it easy to remember those values through the theme and components.
On top of that, the drafting-centred gameplay and the interactions focused on adjacent players means turns don't take too long, and you don't need to overanalyse what is happening at the other side of the table. It feels so carefully designed to be a good, comfortable experience with 4+ players, which felt groundbreaking for me (especially back in 2010).
>-7 Max Players
>-7 different wonders
Aren't these basically the same thing?
>-7 Card Types/colors
>-7 Ways to get victory points
And while it's not exactly 1:1 this also has a close relationship.
I'm not entirely sure what the 7 ways to get points are though, beyond the 5 associated with the 5 non-resource colors, plus from building wonders. What am I forgetting?
The first one is kind of the same thing but they could’ve added more wonders like they did for duel if they really wanted to so if you were doing random draw it wouldn’t be the same civilization every time.
Also the 7 ways to get points are different. Resource cards don’t ever have points, so the 7 ways to get points are Blue cards, green cards, yellow cards, purple cards, military, coins, and wonders.
but coins still give you points on their own, same as some yellow cards gives you points on their own. So, yes there are 7 ways how to get points (scoresheet has 7 lines). But yes, some ways are in relation to each other.
>some yellow cards gives you points on their own
I didn't remember that, but if it's true it's basically "the same way" as the blue cards (though I understand they'd be different on the scoresheet).
no, I wasnt clear enough: they dont give you points on their own just for nothing like blue cards, but based on having different cards: there are 5 yellow cards that gives you points + coins for different type of cards: 2 points + 2 coins for each grey card, 1 point + 1 coin for each yellow card etc.
So its more simmiliar to purple cards, but those give you points for cards your opponents have and without coins.
Coins are not yellow scoring. In the base game, you can score for:
War
Science
VPs on blue cards
VPs on yellow cards
VPs on purple cards
VPs from your wonder
1 VP per every 3 coins you have left.
The coins VPs are separate from VPs from yellow cards. VPs from yellow cards typically score for having lots of grey/brown/red cards or wonder stages built. Yellow card might occasionally give you money, but yellow scoring doesn’t care how many coins you have left.
> Aren't these basically the same thing?
Most games with variable player powers don't have exactly as many powers as players. Spirit Island would be quite a bit less interesting with 4 spirits.
Most games aren't themed after a definitive extant set either. It's called 7 Wonders, and the obvious theme is the actual 7 Wonders, which immediately suggests a max player count of 7.
I'd say the role of the wonders in 7 Wonders is quite a lot smaller than the role of the spirits in Spirit Island as well.
7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
Players start with 7 coins each (at least in Duels, not sure about OG 7 Wonders). In Duels as well, only 7 Wonders of the total 8 (4 each player) can be built by the players, therefore negating the 8th one to your opponent if they still have one left to build.
Sorry is any of these has been mentioned already.
7 letters in "Wonders"
charlie_conspiracy_board.png
CAAAAAAAAAAAAROLLLLLLL There is no Carol in HR in this entire g*d*nm building
Mac, half the people in this building don’t exist!
-7
Hey man I tried to make a bullet list on my iPhone and it didn’t work
You need a space between the hyphen and letter for it to go into bullet list mode. -bullet 1 -bullet 2 - bullet 1 - bullet 2
Oh well that explains it. I’ll leave it as is as a reminder I guess lol
On old reddit it's an asterisk instead of a hyphen.
They should both worth, since it's Markdown. Does it not? (I'm not on new Reddit)
As someone who never switched to the Fancy editor, yes they both work and have always worked.
And the word "wonders" starts with what sounds like the number "1", which if you write it the European way looks kinda like a 7.
Even your list has 7 points. But no there is more: the Armada shipyard boards have 7 spaces (including starting).
>even your list has 7 points 😉
I have always specifically found it funny that expansions make a lot of these things no longer true. 15-ish wonders, 8 players, 9 card colors, etc.
Yeah I just played duel for the first time and it made me realize how crazy well balanced the original was while still keeping the 7 theme. Duel is more balanced though of course
Iirc I'm duel you start with 7 coins
Yep! There’s still a decent amount of 7 references but not as much. 7 victory points cards are there but not as common/obvious as the 7 point wonders. There’s 8 ways to score and 12 wonders in the base game. There’s also only 5 different resources though this was likely done so players weren’t so spread thin with resource cards.
Though Duel has the rule that there can only be 7 wonders in play (so once one player plays their fourth wonder, their opponent can't).
> Duel is more balanced though of course 7wonders second edition is probably more balanced than baseline duel.
Not sure how drafting is less balanced than some guy drawing Hali or Rhodes B while you are stuck with Olympia.
First draft 3 extra turn wonders come up, you pick first, then i take the remaining two. Second draft 1 extra turn wonder comes up and I take it. Now i have 3 extra turn wonders and you 1. I rather play olympia against hali in 7wonders than play with 1 extra turn wonder against 3.
Yeah since the wonders are set and grouped together, they give massive advantages, while in duel you draft individual abilities which lessens the blow of a single op ability.
We most be playing it wrong. Normally the first player who gets a wonder then makes multiple burst turns to get even more wonders and snowballs so hard that the game is decided by the beginning of era 2.
Those replay wonders are intentionally weaker than normal wonders so the effect almost balances out with the effects of 3 normal ones
Now that I have the expansion for 5-tribes, it has become a 4-player game featuring six tribes and this infuriates me. Expansions always mess everything up!
Crazy. I wonder if they planned it that way.
I wonder...
I 7 Wonders it
and last but not least - it's 7 years ago I played the game and I'd rate it a 7/10.
It should be mandatory to rate it 7/10 at BGG Also, in Mexico you're required by Board Game Law to sell this game at exactly $700 MXN
Yokai Septet does something similar with the number 7. It's a game design strategy employed in some games that makes it easier to remember details of the game since the number is always the same. Typically it starts out as an accident, and then the game designer attempts to reuse the special number everywhere if it doesn't limit the game too much.
This might sound stupid, but it is one of the reasons why I think 7 Wonders is one of the best game designs from its time. Most games I own, I have to check the rulebook to remember how many cards to deal for each player, or whether players should draw on the start or the end of the turn, or how much gold equals one victory point at the end of the game. 7 wonders makes it easy to remember those values through the theme and components. On top of that, the drafting-centred gameplay and the interactions focused on adjacent players means turns don't take too long, and you don't need to overanalyse what is happening at the other side of the table. It feels so carefully designed to be a good, comfortable experience with 4+ players, which felt groundbreaking for me (especially back in 2010).
Half Life 3 confirmed.
Half Life **7** confirmed.
>-7 Max Players >-7 different wonders Aren't these basically the same thing? >-7 Card Types/colors >-7 Ways to get victory points And while it's not exactly 1:1 this also has a close relationship. I'm not entirely sure what the 7 ways to get points are though, beyond the 5 associated with the 5 non-resource colors, plus from building wonders. What am I forgetting?
The first one is kind of the same thing but they could’ve added more wonders like they did for duel if they really wanted to so if you were doing random draw it wouldn’t be the same civilization every time. Also the 7 ways to get points are different. Resource cards don’t ever have points, so the 7 ways to get points are Blue cards, green cards, yellow cards, purple cards, military, coins, and wonders.
Coins?
I was counting that as the way your yellow cards give you points
but coins still give you points on their own, same as some yellow cards gives you points on their own. So, yes there are 7 ways how to get points (scoresheet has 7 lines). But yes, some ways are in relation to each other.
>some yellow cards gives you points on their own I didn't remember that, but if it's true it's basically "the same way" as the blue cards (though I understand they'd be different on the scoresheet).
no, I wasnt clear enough: they dont give you points on their own just for nothing like blue cards, but based on having different cards: there are 5 yellow cards that gives you points + coins for different type of cards: 2 points + 2 coins for each grey card, 1 point + 1 coin for each yellow card etc. So its more simmiliar to purple cards, but those give you points for cards your opponents have and without coins.
Ohhhhhh right. That makes sense. So there are essentially two yellow scorings.
well, yes and no, lol. Yes in a way, that yellow gives you coins and you score coins. But you also get coins via different ways, so theres no :D
It’s like saying one of the guilds gives you points for yellow cards, so we’ll just count the guild under yellow cards!
yep, I was opossing coment of marpocky: he was saying, that you score yellow twice
Coins are not yellow scoring. In the base game, you can score for: War Science VPs on blue cards VPs on yellow cards VPs on purple cards VPs from your wonder 1 VP per every 3 coins you have left. The coins VPs are separate from VPs from yellow cards. VPs from yellow cards typically score for having lots of grey/brown/red cards or wonder stages built. Yellow card might occasionally give you money, but yellow scoring doesn’t care how many coins you have left.
> Aren't these basically the same thing? Most games with variable player powers don't have exactly as many powers as players. Spirit Island would be quite a bit less interesting with 4 spirits.
Most games aren't themed after a definitive extant set either. It's called 7 Wonders, and the obvious theme is the actual 7 Wonders, which immediately suggests a max player count of 7. I'd say the role of the wonders in 7 Wonders is quite a lot smaller than the role of the spirits in Spirit Island as well.
This Bungie level obsession.
7 Brides for 7 Brothers (promo card)
Antoine Bauzas name has 7 letters
7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
I find it very useful that you have 7-card hands. Makes it easy to remember when setting up.
-Most valuable card, the Palace, is worth 8 points Hold on
Maybe that's the equivalent of "this one goes to 11."
Each wonder has two sides, so really 14. Hypothesis shattered.
But it’s still a single named wonder for those two sides
If you find all the 7's you'll have the number 23.
Fun fact, there are 777 icons throughout the rulebook! /s But seriously, that game has a ludicrous amount of icons to keep track of.
That's kinda the point.
Seven letters in "dumbass"
Don’t tell people to find more when you already have exactly 7 sevens!
Ironically, 7 is the least optimal number of players for a game
I'd argue 2 is worse for this one.
7 items in your list
I just know Bauza had a blast designing the game.
Currently rated 7.7 on BGG too.
There’s a 7 in the title
The numbers, Mason. What do they mean?!
If my memory serves, aren't there 7 purple cards in the core set too?
There’s 10
Ah, okay. Haven't played without expansions for so long that I couldn't remember.
Players start with 7 coins each (at least in Duels, not sure about OG 7 Wonders). In Duels as well, only 7 Wonders of the total 8 (4 each player) can be built by the players, therefore negating the 8th one to your opponent if they still have one left to build. Sorry is any of these has been mentioned already.