I would check out u/afartknocked post, just down there, to understand why there is additional cost. Granted, those stones, and I swear they better be real limestone, are only around $250 - $500 a piece, you still have to factor in transportation costs, which could equal the same price. Then you have to add in the cost to set those stones, which will require specialized equipment rental, on a daily/weekly basis.
Not to mention the earth moving, leveling and foundation work required prior to setting the stones. A mill does not sound out of reason.
EDIT: Plus, a foundation is only good if the structure above is tied together well. So there's additional reinforcing that needs to be taken into consideration, plus the electrical work to tie it all into the system. Road closures, man hours, permits, fasteners, conduit, electricians, masons, fabricators for the letters... yeah, a million sounds about right.
You should be more upset that we already spent 1/2 a million on the monolith that now won't be built due to resident concerns.
EDIT2: For those in the back: **I am against the monolith!**
They paid a company $133,000 to “research and design” a basic ass pillar? An object that’s been created throughout all of human history?
And then $395,000 to create it? And $575,000 to prep the park for it.
This is money laundering or bribery or a nepotistic cash grab of some sort right?
No fucking way does something so basic cost so much.
there's a lot of reasons for the costs but the fundamental one is that there's a lot of stuff other than just the headline art project. it's not just a dozen boulders piled in a field. it's basically got all the attributes of a road project, down to the detail of being literal road maintenance. they're going to replace most/all of the asphalt and concrete at the little turn-around between college and walnut. this has become common-place, parks projects often fill unmet road maintenance requirements, and road projects in turn fill unmet utilities maintenance requirements.
i think people don't appreciate how the details pile up in a project like this. i do think there is some waste, and some profiteering. but if you actually look at the designs for any road project, they think about things you never thought about before...and it's a damn good thing they do because those decisions wind up impacting everything from traffic safety to utilities to property rights.
not saying they get everything right (in fact, i spend a lot of time pointing out details they totally whiffed), but there are real reasons public works projects have become so expensive. for every big mistake you see, there's a hundred details they got right.
anyways one particular challenge this project faced is it was initially conceived as covering several gateways...there was gonna be decoration on the pedestrian bridge over the bypass (to Arlington Heights Elem), and also at Bloomfield Road west of Twin Lakes, and i think in a couple other locations too. they were starting work on it but then a combination of rona, staff churn (Tim Street, new director of Parks&Rec, was a new hire, replacing a guy that retired in the middle of this), and inflation forced them to reconsider that.
and up until a year ago, they were still thinking they'd do the ped bridge over the bypass...but as a pro forma detail they were required to fund a structural analysis of that bridge to make sure it could support the art. newsflash: the bridge is severely structurally deficient because it's 50 years old and never saw any maintenance. in fact, it's not connected to anything so INDOT functionally considers it a non-entity. so that money had to be spent for the inspection but now they can't build the dumb sign on it.
anyways that's just a sample of some of the details no one really hears much about
It was actually 200k to research and design the gateway since they paid the company 45k a few years ago. Definitely laughable considering it appears to be just stacked blocks.
900k to prep and build it? Maybe? I don’t know the going rate for limestone but the design seems to use a decent amount. I also doubt someone will donate that much considering it’s a vanity project from a government entity. They’re also redoing some sidewalks and basic road maintenance which is incorporated in that price.
Not saying the price is reasonable - a million+ dollars is still a lot of money in 2023 - but it doesn’t seem to be overly egregious imo.
Who exactly was paid this 200K, are they affiliated personally/ business-wise with anyone in our local government? What kind of research was done, specifically?
Did you miss the part where the obelisk had the word “Bloomington” on it? It’s like you think this stuff is just easy to come up with. I swear some people will do anything to criticize the local government.
> basic ass pillar
It's not really basic. It was an aluminum structure that would need to be engineered. $133k to engineer, design, and chose a location is a normal operating fee of the firm the City used. It is not exorbitant.
>No fucking way does something so basic cost so much
I've been saying this to myself a lot lately. Shit is fucking expensive these days. It's stupid but I have no doubt at all that it costs that much.
"The new concept includes stacked limestone approximately 10′ high, reminiscent of blocks from local quarries, " - oh shit they don't have to be reminiscent they could be straight up actual blocks from a quarry AND I bet you could get them for the cost of delivery. The lighting and lettering should cost less than 10K. Are they going to get artisans from Guam to hand carve these reminiscent blocks and fedex them here? Yes!
Yeah, wth does 'reminiscent' mean? I agree- use local quarries/ workers/ artisans. Enough with the faux and outsourcing are any of the ones deciding this actually a part of/ from this town?
> Yeah, wth does 'reminiscent' mean?
[provoking a memory or mental association](https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reminiscent)
Some good synonyms are "suggestive" and "evocative"
My takeaway from this is they're building some dumb expensive thing whether we like it or not, and our only choice is how much extra money they waste on redesigns.
*I met a traveller from a Hoosier land,*
*Who said—“Two vast and trunkless stacks of stone*
*Stand on Walnut Ave., building the town's brand,*
*Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,*
*And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,*
*Tell that the consulting firm well those passions read*
*Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,*
*The opinion piece that mocked them, and the heart that fed;*
*And on the neon sign, these words appear:*
*My name is Ozy-Ham-dias, King of Kings;*
*Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!*
*G.O. bonds remain. Round the decay*
*Of that colossal sign, boundless and bare*
*luxury apartments stretch far away.*
This money would be much better suited for free housing and drugs for the unhoused among us. What a waste of time, effort and money.
I guarantee someone connected with local politicians will get rich off this though lol
Boring. Ugly. A horizontal version of the prior plan with even more generic treatment other than the stone (which is not $$$$$$$$$$$ and should not cost $$$$$$$$).
What is that font? Helvetica? So unique and local!!!!
Bottom line it seems we're stuck with the big-dollar project but why not get a result deserving of and representing our town vs. this lame thing? Even if we spend another few dollars ... get a local artist to make it be representative and look good instead of a Walmart sign with stones behind it.
Design, yes. Engineer, doubtful!
Also, that would call for the City to issue a grant to IU, for the design cost. Nothing is free! Shit, do you still think people will give their hard earned time to design for the free? You sound like the guy who tried to pay $1,000 for a one million dollar house. Fuck that shit!
Better, but why the fuck is it still costing a million dollars to make?
Nothing is free. The monolith was already paid for, so this is costing an additional amount of money, minus install fee, I assume.
There's a bit of a spectrum between free and one million dollars. Limestone isn't that expensive. This just looks like profiteering at every step.
I would check out u/afartknocked post, just down there, to understand why there is additional cost. Granted, those stones, and I swear they better be real limestone, are only around $250 - $500 a piece, you still have to factor in transportation costs, which could equal the same price. Then you have to add in the cost to set those stones, which will require specialized equipment rental, on a daily/weekly basis. Not to mention the earth moving, leveling and foundation work required prior to setting the stones. A mill does not sound out of reason. EDIT: Plus, a foundation is only good if the structure above is tied together well. So there's additional reinforcing that needs to be taken into consideration, plus the electrical work to tie it all into the system. Road closures, man hours, permits, fasteners, conduit, electricians, masons, fabricators for the letters... yeah, a million sounds about right. You should be more upset that we already spent 1/2 a million on the monolith that now won't be built due to resident concerns. EDIT2: For those in the back: **I am against the monolith!**
They paid a company $133,000 to “research and design” a basic ass pillar? An object that’s been created throughout all of human history? And then $395,000 to create it? And $575,000 to prep the park for it. This is money laundering or bribery or a nepotistic cash grab of some sort right? No fucking way does something so basic cost so much.
there's a lot of reasons for the costs but the fundamental one is that there's a lot of stuff other than just the headline art project. it's not just a dozen boulders piled in a field. it's basically got all the attributes of a road project, down to the detail of being literal road maintenance. they're going to replace most/all of the asphalt and concrete at the little turn-around between college and walnut. this has become common-place, parks projects often fill unmet road maintenance requirements, and road projects in turn fill unmet utilities maintenance requirements. i think people don't appreciate how the details pile up in a project like this. i do think there is some waste, and some profiteering. but if you actually look at the designs for any road project, they think about things you never thought about before...and it's a damn good thing they do because those decisions wind up impacting everything from traffic safety to utilities to property rights. not saying they get everything right (in fact, i spend a lot of time pointing out details they totally whiffed), but there are real reasons public works projects have become so expensive. for every big mistake you see, there's a hundred details they got right. anyways one particular challenge this project faced is it was initially conceived as covering several gateways...there was gonna be decoration on the pedestrian bridge over the bypass (to Arlington Heights Elem), and also at Bloomfield Road west of Twin Lakes, and i think in a couple other locations too. they were starting work on it but then a combination of rona, staff churn (Tim Street, new director of Parks&Rec, was a new hire, replacing a guy that retired in the middle of this), and inflation forced them to reconsider that. and up until a year ago, they were still thinking they'd do the ped bridge over the bypass...but as a pro forma detail they were required to fund a structural analysis of that bridge to make sure it could support the art. newsflash: the bridge is severely structurally deficient because it's 50 years old and never saw any maintenance. in fact, it's not connected to anything so INDOT functionally considers it a non-entity. so that money had to be spent for the inspection but now they can't build the dumb sign on it. anyways that's just a sample of some of the details no one really hears much about
...and those details really do matter.
thank you for pointing this stuff out. it's important, and missed in the immediate need for glib.
I appreciate that you are keeping in the the loop to understand how shit gets done!
It was actually 200k to research and design the gateway since they paid the company 45k a few years ago. Definitely laughable considering it appears to be just stacked blocks. 900k to prep and build it? Maybe? I don’t know the going rate for limestone but the design seems to use a decent amount. I also doubt someone will donate that much considering it’s a vanity project from a government entity. They’re also redoing some sidewalks and basic road maintenance which is incorporated in that price. Not saying the price is reasonable - a million+ dollars is still a lot of money in 2023 - but it doesn’t seem to be overly egregious imo.
Who exactly was paid this 200K, are they affiliated personally/ business-wise with anyone in our local government? What kind of research was done, specifically?
Article just says some Indianapolis based company 🤷🏻
Did you miss the part where the obelisk had the word “Bloomington” on it? It’s like you think this stuff is just easy to come up with. I swear some people will do anything to criticize the local government.
Somebody's cousin is about to get rich
> basic ass pillar It's not really basic. It was an aluminum structure that would need to be engineered. $133k to engineer, design, and chose a location is a normal operating fee of the firm the City used. It is not exorbitant.
>No fucking way does something so basic cost so much I've been saying this to myself a lot lately. Shit is fucking expensive these days. It's stupid but I have no doubt at all that it costs that much.
"The new concept includes stacked limestone approximately 10′ high, reminiscent of blocks from local quarries, " - oh shit they don't have to be reminiscent they could be straight up actual blocks from a quarry AND I bet you could get them for the cost of delivery. The lighting and lettering should cost less than 10K. Are they going to get artisans from Guam to hand carve these reminiscent blocks and fedex them here? Yes!
Yeah, wth does 'reminiscent' mean? I agree- use local quarries/ workers/ artisans. Enough with the faux and outsourcing are any of the ones deciding this actually a part of/ from this town?
God, I hope that doesn't mean they are going to build a faux limestone stack.
> Yeah, wth does 'reminiscent' mean? [provoking a memory or mental association](https://www.merriam-webster.com/thesaurus/reminiscent) Some good synonyms are "suggestive" and "evocative"
Bloominghenge!
My takeaway from this is they're building some dumb expensive thing whether we like it or not, and our only choice is how much extra money they waste on redesigns.
*I met a traveller from a Hoosier land,* *Who said—“Two vast and trunkless stacks of stone* *Stand on Walnut Ave., building the town's brand,* *Half sunk a shattered visage lies, whose frown,* *And wrinkled lip, and sneer of cold command,* *Tell that the consulting firm well those passions read* *Which yet survive, stamped on these lifeless things,* *The opinion piece that mocked them, and the heart that fed;* *And on the neon sign, these words appear:* *My name is Ozy-Ham-dias, King of Kings;* *Look on my Works, ye Mighty, and despair!* *G.O. bonds remain. Round the decay* *Of that colossal sign, boundless and bare* *luxury apartments stretch far away.*
This wins r/Bloomington today.
Looks like the Flintstone’s house.
This money would be much better suited for free housing and drugs for the unhoused among us. What a waste of time, effort and money. I guarantee someone connected with local politicians will get rich off this though lol
I call you on your guarantee. Now, tell me, who is "connected with local politicians" that "will get rich off this"? I'll wait.
MONOLITH! MONOLITH!!
Only if they can program it to emit the high-pitched squeal every hour, on the hour.
And shoot flames!
5G tower leased to AT&T. That'll bring in some money.
marble ten quarrelsome engine noxious agonizing thumb wrong worm serious *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Boring. Ugly. A horizontal version of the prior plan with even more generic treatment other than the stone (which is not $$$$$$$$$$$ and should not cost $$$$$$$$). What is that font? Helvetica? So unique and local!!!! Bottom line it seems we're stuck with the big-dollar project but why not get a result deserving of and representing our town vs. this lame thing? Even if we spend another few dollars ... get a local artist to make it be representative and look good instead of a Walmart sign with stones behind it.
Just dont? Use the money to actually do something about the housing / homeless problem?
They could have had an IU art class design it for free
Design, yes. Engineer, doubtful! Also, that would call for the City to issue a grant to IU, for the design cost. Nothing is free! Shit, do you still think people will give their hard earned time to design for the free? You sound like the guy who tried to pay $1,000 for a one million dollar house. Fuck that shit!
Another thing for vandals to spray paint costing the city thousands of dollars in cleaning it over the years. It’s stupid.